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Speaker 1: We have been saying on this show for a number

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Speaker 1: of years that crime is by far the biggest issue

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Speaker 1: plaguing Territorians. People have been calling into this show daily

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Speaker 1: to voice concerns about the lack of consequences for youth offenders,

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Speaker 1: some of you reaching the point where you don't even

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Speaker 1: bother reporting crime because you feel the hands of the

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Speaker 1: police are tied when it comes to youths. You'd have

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Speaker 1: to say that the issue reached boiling point last week

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Speaker 1: when Alice Springs featured on a Current Affair for all

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Speaker 1: the wrong reasons, visions well vision of youths and adults

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Speaker 1: brawling on the main street. But despite that sustained pressure

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Speaker 1: from Territorians, the government has up until this point stood

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Speaker 1: firm saying that the Territory has some of the toughest

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Speaker 1: consequences in the country when it comes to youth offenders.

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Speaker 1: But today the government's backflipped, announcing young offenders who breach

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Speaker 1: bail will be hauled back to Remand and police will

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Speaker 1: be allowed to breath test children. The Police Minister this morning,

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Speaker 1: Well is set to reverell six legislative changes and the

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Speaker 1: construction of a Remand center in a bid to crack

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Speaker 1: down on this perceived.

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Speaker 2: Spike in youth crime is what it's being reported. Now.

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Speaker 1: Joining me on the line is the Police Minister Nicole Madison.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning, Katie. Minister.

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Speaker 1: The Bail Act, which was initially amended following those recommendations

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Speaker 1: from the Royal Commission, it's going to be changed again

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Speaker 1: to extend or to expand a list of crimes that

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Speaker 1: makes it hard apparently for youths to be granted bail.

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Speaker 1: What are these crimes going to include?

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Speaker 3: Well, Katie, prior to the election, when we put out

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Speaker 3: our community Safety and policy, we did say that we

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Speaker 3: were going to be looking at file monitoring and compliance

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Speaker 3: and to strengthen it as well as these out place resources.

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Speaker 3: So with regards to some of those prescribed offenses the

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Speaker 3: young people, we have had a look and we've determined

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Speaker 3: that we want to put more offenses there. This is

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Speaker 3: based off advice from police about some of the patterns

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Speaker 3: of connectivity that they're sing and ways that we can

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Speaker 3: strengthen it. So things like breaking into as nigh assaults,

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Speaker 3: assaults on police and emergency workers. So there's some of

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Speaker 3: the areas that will be included on that list.

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Speaker 1: There are going to then be changes as well for

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Speaker 1: those who breach bail as I understand it, what are

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Speaker 1: those changes?

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Speaker 3: So if there is a serious breach of ail, then bail,

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Speaker 3: let's see very clear, is an absolute privilege and so

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Speaker 3: that will be removed. They will be remanded before they

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Speaker 3: appear on cause, or if they get considered for boil again,

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Speaker 3: they're going to have electronic monitory or have to go

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Speaker 3: to bail accommodation, or they will possibly still be remanded

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Speaker 3: until they go to court and possibly be sent them.

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Speaker 1: Minister, I have been told by a police officer that

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Speaker 1: they see some youths on bail breach continuously. Some days

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Speaker 1: they're called out between ten and twenty times a day

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Speaker 1: for breaches, but they can't do anything about it because

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Speaker 1: bail breach isn't an offense. Is this now going to

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Speaker 1: change that?

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Speaker 4: Well?

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Speaker 3: Can I say? That's absolutely rubbish, Katie.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying the police, that officer that I've spoken

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Speaker 1: to not telling the truth.

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Speaker 3: That that is rubbish. That if somebody continues to breach

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Speaker 3: their bail, then they should be getting brought forward and

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Speaker 3: dealt with that original offense. But why while they're not

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Speaker 3: sticking to their bowel conditions. But this is going to

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Speaker 3: make it even clearer for police. Police are going to

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Speaker 3: have more powers to deal with those those people if

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Speaker 3: they're on bail and they commit a fresh offense, in particular,

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Speaker 3: they are going to be getting dealt with immediately. Feedback

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Speaker 3: I've had from Trident and VITR is that these are

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Speaker 3: some of the changes that they want to see, and

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Speaker 3: also from general duties officers. So this is we've continued

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Speaker 3: to look at what we've got in place, how we

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Speaker 3: confer to strengthen it. And it's important to remember, Katie

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Speaker 3: that this is just one part of a lot of

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Speaker 3: work that is happening under government, more police resources. We've

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Speaker 3: got Ring Leader legislation going through PARLA.

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Speaker 1: All right, We've actually we've spoken to you on numerous

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Speaker 1: occasions about all of that. So I guess what our

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Speaker 1: listeners are keen to hear this morning is what is

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Speaker 1: actually new and what is actually different to the way

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Speaker 1: in which you've been doing things previously. Now we've been

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Speaker 1: asking about these bail laws, particularly about the presumption of

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Speaker 1: bail for a number of months.

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Speaker 2: You'd have to say, take a.

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Speaker 1: Listen to what the Chief Minister said to us a

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Speaker 1: few weeks ago. So do those bail laws need to

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Speaker 1: be strengthened with a presumption against bail for repeat offenders

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Speaker 1: and those arrested while already on bail.

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Speaker 5: So we have extremely strong bail laws and I think

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Speaker 5: we've got a seventy five percent success rate in terms

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Speaker 5: of not breaching bail, and we've put in supported bail

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Speaker 5: accommodation which has gone a long way towards make sure

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Speaker 5: we get that result.

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Speaker 2: So, so yes or no, will those bail laws change?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I don't think that's the issue.

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Speaker 1: So is there going to be a change here? Does

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Speaker 1: this mean that there's no longer going to be a

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Speaker 1: presumption of bail or does that still remain in place?

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Speaker 3: So if somebody goes out and they breach their bail

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Speaker 3: because they've gone out and committed what we think is

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Speaker 3: the serious breach of bail, which could be a new offense,

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Speaker 3: then no, they're going to be getting remanded and then

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Speaker 3: when they go before the court that will be taken

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Speaker 3: us very seriously. There will not be a presumption in

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Speaker 3: favor of fail there.

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Speaker 1: So is the legislation going to change so that there

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Speaker 1: is no longer a presumption of bail.

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Speaker 3: There is going to be a raft of different pieces

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Speaker 3: of legislation that are going to be going forward and

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Speaker 3: going to be amented. We're looking to bring that into

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Speaker 3: Parliament in May. So we've been working on this for

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Speaker 3: some time, looking at bail monitory and compliance and how

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Speaker 3: we can strengthen it. So that's the work that we

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Speaker 3: are doing, and it's going to go around the raft

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Speaker 3: of bills, and particularly this is really important, Katie. We're

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Speaker 3: talking about targeting those repeat offenses, those who relatantly do

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Speaker 3: the wrong thing whilst they are out on bail and

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Speaker 3: have no regard for the law. For those kids that

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Speaker 3: we think we can turn around, then we're going to

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Speaker 3: continue having a crack because that means that they will

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Speaker 3: not come adult criminals. We get it right with him.

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Speaker 3: But for those that relatanly disregard the law, that continue

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Speaker 3: to breach their bail and have little regard for the community,

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Speaker 3: then they will be getting remanded and dealt with some

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Speaker 3: far twister and harsher consequences.

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Speaker 1: All right, I want to get into that in just

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Speaker 1: a moment and talk about how exactly you're going to

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Speaker 1: deal with that. But I do just want to go

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Speaker 1: back to very clearly yes or no. Does this mean

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Speaker 1: that we're no longer going to have that presumption of

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Speaker 1: bail if somebody breaks the law, if a youth breaks.

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Speaker 3: The law, so we're talking about those who breach bail,

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Speaker 3: then we will be changing that level of presumption. But

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Speaker 3: I just want to be very clear.

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Speaker 2: So if we've got a repeat.

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Speaker 3: Of time offenders, if those are first time offenders, Katie,

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Speaker 3: to say that it is presumption means automatically get bail?

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Speaker 3: As that?

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Speaker 1: All right?

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Speaker 2: Well, can I ask I guess? Can I give an example?

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Speaker 1: I'll give an example, and this is one that you

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Speaker 1: and I have spoken about before, and that example was

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago I spoke to you about some

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Speaker 1: terrible vision which appeared on TikTok which showed a teenager

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Speaker 1: assaulting some Indigenous men on the ground in Palmerston. Now

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Speaker 1: that person was not remanded in custody after those charges

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Speaker 1: were laid. Would this mean that that presumption of bail

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Speaker 1: is no longer in place and somebody like that who's

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Speaker 1: committed a serious offense is actually kept in Remand.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, Katie, it just depends on the circumstances around. I

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Speaker 3: don't know the particular circumstance of that individual. So it's

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Speaker 3: hard for me to give you some poetry except for

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Speaker 3: to say if they were breaching their bail, then they

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Speaker 3: would be getting reminded.

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Speaker 1: So this is only this legislation is only changing for

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Speaker 1: those who breach their bail.

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Speaker 3: So we're talking about we're targeting those serious, hardcore repeat offenders.

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Speaker 3: That is what this is all about, targeting those people

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Speaker 3: that do it. And we've got strong systems in place

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Speaker 3: to deal with some of those first time offenders as well.

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Speaker 3: And make no mistake, if they do something that requires

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Speaker 3: them to be remanded and go before the courts, they

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Speaker 3: do get remanded and they do go before the court.

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Speaker 1: Minister talk us through with this new remand center that's

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Speaker 1: going to be constructed. So as I understand it, as

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Speaker 1: part of this announcement, five million dollars has been ear

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Speaker 1: marked so that you know, so that if somebody breaches

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Speaker 1: their bail they can be taken into that remand center.

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Speaker 2: When is that going to get up and running?

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Speaker 3: So this is about five million going into infrastructure to

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Speaker 3: support the Ala Springs Correctional facility and of course the

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Speaker 3: infrastructure that we've got up here in Darwin. So that

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Speaker 3: is going to be there to make sure that with

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Speaker 3: additional requirements of the remand that we've got the accommodation

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Speaker 3: to take those people.

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Speaker 2: How soon do you anticipate that will be up and running.

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Speaker 3: So we're just thinking that legislation in place in May,

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Speaker 3: so we'll be getting it up as quickly as possible

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Speaker 3: after that, and we're doing the work around the instructure.

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Speaker 3: This working happening looking at the we've got new creationals

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Speaker 3: still be going in of course, Darwin, and we've got

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Speaker 3: significant works happening at Alla Springs already.

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Speaker 1: So just talk us through with the announcement today, what

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Speaker 1: exactly is new? So I don't mean like, I don't

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Speaker 1: mean that Ring Leader legislation. Obviously, you and I have

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Speaker 1: spoken about that before, you know, same as some of

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Speaker 1: the other things that you're mentioning, like those new youth

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Speaker 1: detention centers or those new youth centers. They are things

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Speaker 1: that you and I have spoken about before. But what

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Speaker 1: exactly is new in today's announcement.

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Speaker 3: Well, we've got a very serious change here with the

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Speaker 3: automatic replication of bail for young people who commit a

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Speaker 3: serious breach of bail, so they'll be going straight into

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Speaker 3: themand We're expanding that list of courses that prescribe defenses,

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Speaker 3: so youth will be held to account even further the

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Speaker 3: consequences on more different offenses as they might commit. We're

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Speaker 3: explanding the use of electronic monitoring by police so police

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Speaker 3: could use it on far more people on bail. We're

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Speaker 3: making sure that that happens, including the ability for police

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Speaker 3: to be able on breast test people under the age

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Speaker 3: of a team without a responsible adults them so they

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Speaker 3: can get an accurate reading if they go out there

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Speaker 3: and if they are and they got drinks driving. We

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Speaker 3: are making sure that we are amending Section sixty four

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Speaker 3: of the Years Justice Acts, so ensuring that if kids

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Speaker 3: don't complete their diversion that there are more consequences in

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Speaker 3: the system pull that as well. So these are some

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Speaker 3: of the new things that are coming in place. It's

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Speaker 3: about tweaking what we've got in place. We've been on

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Speaker 3: a journey of fixing the youth justice system and making

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Speaker 3: sure police get the resources they need for the first

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Speaker 3: four years of government. See the further changes we think

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Speaker 3: they needed to be done, and we said before the

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Speaker 3: election that we were going to do.

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Speaker 1: Do you have the support of the police on these

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Speaker 1: legislative changes and the other changes you're announcing today.

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Speaker 3: I've been taking the advice from place with regards to

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Speaker 3: some of the changes that they need. So this is

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Speaker 3: due to the conversations that been having with the community,

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Speaker 3: the feedback I certainly be getting from the front line

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Speaker 3: when I go out and talk for tridents, when I

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Speaker 3: talk to cite for by by General Duties officers, the

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Speaker 3: police executives, but also the community about their expectations about

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Speaker 3: what happens here. So this isn't the silver bullet of crime, Katie.

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Speaker 3: This is one part of it. Like I said, it's

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Speaker 3: about making sure that we're targeting the causes of crime,

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Speaker 3: making sure that we've got policed with the resources that

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Speaker 3: they need to do their incredibly challenging job, and also

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Speaker 3: building on the reforms have already put in place.

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Speaker 1: Now, I do want to ask a question here from Darren,

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Speaker 1: one of our listeners. It says, Hi, Katie, so will

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Speaker 1: you still be able to breach bail without penalty so

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Speaker 1: long as it's not a serious breach and what's deemed

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Speaker 1: a serious breach?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So if people do commit a serious breach, which

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Speaker 3: is for example, reoffending, not turning up to court. If

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Speaker 3: they're not doing what they're required to by diversion, then

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Speaker 3: yes they're going to be called and they're going to

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Speaker 3: be remanded and dealt with.

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Speaker 1: But so if it is just a breach where they're

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Speaker 1: maybe not where they're supposed to be at a certain

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Speaker 1: time of day, that's still not considered a breach.

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Speaker 3: So if they do something of a serious nature that

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Speaker 3: requires them to be back of court. So you know,

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Speaker 3: if we're talking about a kid, hasn't you know, rich

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Speaker 3: back home but six o'h one and their bowl was

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Speaker 3: six o'clock, then that is not on the high list

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Speaker 3: of serious side. But if somebody goes and commits a

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Speaker 3: fresh effense, if somebody does not do the really important

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Speaker 3: things like doing the diversion or sticking to not drinking

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Speaker 3: and those types of things, then yes they're going to

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Speaker 3: be remanded and go for the court.

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Speaker 1: What about a situation like we saw or in a

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Speaker 1: current affair last week where there was a young person

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Speaker 1: who had one of these electronic monitoring bracelets on their

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Speaker 1: rain call, but they were still out on the street.

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Speaker 1: They didn't appear to be the ones who are actually

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Speaker 1: assaulting anybody, but they were out on the street really,

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Speaker 1: you know, involved in what many would deem a pretty

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Speaker 1: serious situation in the lay hours of the night.

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Speaker 2: Would that be deemed a breach?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Can I ask you how long do you think it's

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Speaker 1: going to take to implement these changes given the fact that,

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Speaker 1: as you said, it's obviously got to go, that legislation's

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Speaker 1: not going to go into parliament until May.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So we'll be looking to implement as swiftly as

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Speaker 3: we can after that and get that all put into place.

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Speaker 3: So this is something that, like I said, please are

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Speaker 3: very keen to see happen. So we'll be moving on

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Speaker 3: this very swiftly. But again it's part of, like I said,

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Speaker 3: a range of different packages of different measures that we're

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Speaker 3: putting in place that we committed to prior to the election.

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Speaker 1: All Right, just very just a couple of ones that

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Speaker 1: I'd like to get through quickly. Where's the money coming

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Speaker 1: from for that romand center.

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Speaker 3: We've got a very big infrastructure budget, so we have

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Speaker 3: got money within that infrastructure budget that we are prioritizing

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Speaker 3: towards this.

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Speaker 2: And where will it be constructed?

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Speaker 3: This is about enhancing the infrastructure we've already got Katie.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So it's just going to be a revamp of

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Speaker 1: something that we've already got at this point.

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Speaker 3: So it is about making sure we've got the capacity

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Speaker 3: we need. We are building a brand new detention center

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Speaker 3: with extra capacity already as you know in Darwin, and

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Speaker 3: also Alice Springs is undergoing significant, a significant renovation as well,

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Speaker 3: and so this is about enhancing what we've got.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Now, the opposition is introducing their legislation today. My understanding

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Speaker 1: is that it's ready to go in Parliament today. Would

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Speaker 1: there be a way that we could just work on

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Speaker 1: that legislation so that this can actually happen as quickly

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Speaker 1: as possible to help the community immediately rather than waiting

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Speaker 1: until May.

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Speaker 3: Well, again, we've got to see the detail of it,

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Speaker 3: so we haven't seen the bill. We won't get to

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Speaker 3: see that bill until tomorrow, so we need to see

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Speaker 3: the bill of what's in there.

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Speaker 1: But could there be a possibility here where we could

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Speaker 1: just take the politics out of this actually do what

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Speaker 1: territorians have been calling for.

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Speaker 3: And again it's important to get it right, Katie, and

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Speaker 3: so I need to actually we need to see the bill.

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Speaker 3: But you're not ruling it out yet if we need

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Speaker 3: to see the bill.

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Speaker 1: But realistically, if there is a situation here where you

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Speaker 1: see that bill and you think, all right, this could

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Speaker 1: actually be something that you know that could be helpful.

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Speaker 1: Could we just take the politics out of it and

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Speaker 1: you could both work on this together and make it

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Speaker 1: happen immediately.

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Speaker 3: But again, we need to see what details in it.

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Speaker 3: We've got to make sure that it's right and we

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Speaker 3: need to see what's in there. Katie, I have not

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Speaker 3: seen the bill. We have not seen the bill, and

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Speaker 3: where all are you moving? And they do this? So

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Speaker 3: we need to see the bill, see what details in it?

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Speaker 1: All right, Minister, there's a lot to get through. I

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Speaker 1: do want to ask you. This week in Alice, more

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Speaker 1: police have had to be sent down. There was more

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Speaker 1: horrible assaults on innocent people. Do you can see that

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Speaker 1: you've let territorians down in this space.

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Speaker 3: For this was? As I think you saw the assistant

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Speaker 3: commissioner say, this was a very random event. We had

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Speaker 3: four people, three of them adults, one of seventeen year

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Speaker 3: old is what I understand, that went and assaulted about

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Speaker 3: three or four different groups on Saturday night. That behavior

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Speaker 3: is completely unacceptable, She said to herself that this is

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Speaker 3: not the type of activity or the type of style

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Speaker 3: offending should seem for some time, so they went about,

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Speaker 3: they've caught the main offender, they're looking for the other three.

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Speaker 3: But in the meantime we're spending additional police resources there

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Speaker 3: basically because it was completely unacceptable and we need to

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Speaker 3: go find those other offenders. Who've also got Operation Livingstone,

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Speaker 3: which was already happening in al of Springs, which was

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Speaker 3: about targeting crime before it submitted and having a highly

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Speaker 3: visible police in our springs. And what we already saw

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Speaker 3: was that on the night when it had already happened

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Speaker 3: that there was the police were very quickly able to

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Speaker 3: go when to deal with them.

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Speaker 1: I think the police are doing a phenomenal job under

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Speaker 1: what's very difficult circumstances at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Minister.

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Speaker 1: Why has it taken a national disgrace for our government

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Speaker 1: to actually have some gumption to do something here?

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Speaker 3: Oh rubbish, Katie, there was already a whole bunch of

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Speaker 3: work that was happening.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, the community has been screaming out for such a

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Speaker 1: long time. The community has been screaming out for such

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Speaker 1: a long time. I just cannot understand why it's taken

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Speaker 1: so long to change something, Katie.

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Speaker 3: There has been a huge raft work over the last

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Speaker 3: four years, and you've got to remember we picked up

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Speaker 3: a system where we've in a previous COLP government absolutely

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Speaker 3: fail in the space of youth justice and cut resources

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Speaker 3: and not deliver an extra one hundred and twenty police,

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Speaker 3: which we've had to go about doing. We have gone

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Speaker 3: about making sure police have got more resources, a major

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Speaker 3: reform in the youth justice space. But there are further

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Speaker 3: tweaks that we need to do. There's further changes we

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Speaker 3: need to make. Listen and we do respond and we

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Speaker 3: do make changes, and we made these commitments to the election.

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Speaker 2: Minister.

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask there are again allegations of

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Speaker 1: cover up when it comes to crime. I asked you

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Speaker 1: last week if you were concerned that serious crimes are

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Speaker 1: being concealed after the public were not notified of a

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Speaker 1: serious sexual assault in the Northern Suburbs involving a three

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Speaker 1: year old. Since then, it's also been reported there was

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Speaker 1: an attempted sexual assault in Pinelands earlier this year and

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Speaker 1: a woman was sexually assaulted in broad daylight. We'd been

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Speaker 1: contacted about that one by listeners press release when out

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Speaker 1: describing that alleged sexual assault as an aggravated assault. This morning,

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Speaker 1: the Anti Independent is reporting that a man was inside

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Speaker 1: a little girl's bedroom on several occasions, reportedly with the

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Speaker 1: intent to sexually assault her. That man was eventually arrested,

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Speaker 1: but again the public wasn't notified about this incident.

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Speaker 4: Why well, Katie, the media unit have to take this

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Speaker 4: advice of the investigators and what we're investigating at the time,

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Speaker 4: and we always have to make sure that we.

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Speaker 3: Do look out for the victim as well as well

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Speaker 3: as make sure we don't compromise investigations. So this is

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Speaker 3: the first this morning at the press conference we're in

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Speaker 3: with the Commissioner that we did know that I've heard

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Speaker 3: of the story that has been reported there. Certainly the

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Speaker 3: questions were put to the Commissioner with regards to this

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Speaker 3: particular case, and they had been talking to the detectors involved,

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Speaker 3: have been ongoing investigations into this for.

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Speaker 6: Some time, and that with regards to those details of

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Speaker 6: the case, they clearly had to make some considerations about

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Speaker 6: what information was out and not to compromise the investigations.

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Speaker 1: Minister, do you think it's appropriate that the public's not

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Speaker 1: being told about serious crimes every day.

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Speaker 3: The police have to consider a rafter of different things

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Speaker 3: that happen when they determine what they put out media

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Speaker 3: releases about and what they don't. So minded seeing that

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Speaker 3: it is quite a thorough process, and they have got

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Speaker 3: an incredibly challenging job, and they are antible to the

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Speaker 3: Commissioner as well, and he made it very clear this

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Speaker 3: morning that he thinks that they are in there. They are,

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Speaker 3: they are making the right considerations with the decisions that

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Speaker 3: they are making. And most importantly, it's about making sure

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Speaker 3: that we've got to keep community safety right up there

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Speaker 3: at the top, but also not you know, we've got

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Speaker 3: victims to take care of as well as being sure

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Speaker 3: we don't compromise investigations. So there is a bit of

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Speaker 3: a balance here.

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Speaker 1: Obviously in this instance, we're talking about from what it's reported,

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Speaker 1: a known child sex offender.

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Speaker 2: Is he on the street?

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Speaker 3: Now I don't have details of this case, Katie, so

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Speaker 3: I just can't answer that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just going to ask you again, do you

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Speaker 1: think it's appropriate that the public's not being told about

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Speaker 1: incidents like that?

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Speaker 3: And again, I know that police at a range of

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Speaker 3: serious considerations in determining what information they have to put out.

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Speaker 3: So you know, my job is to make sure that

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Speaker 3: I back them in when it comes to these serious

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Speaker 3: considerations they do, I know how seriously they do look

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Speaker 3: at these things and the work that they do do

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Speaker 3: within the media unit and to do work that they

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Speaker 3: do with their executive about the public information that goes out,

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Speaker 3: So they look at a rafter different things before they

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Speaker 3: make those considerations.

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Speaker 1: So has there been a directive from the government at

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Speaker 1: all for the police not to report on this type

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Speaker 1: of thing?

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Speaker 3: What rubbish, Katie, I'm asking you.

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Speaker 2: So, has there or hasn't.

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Speaker 3: There completely out of line?

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Speaker 2: I think it is.

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Speaker 1: So I'm asking a very simple question. Has there been

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Speaker 1: a director?

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Speaker 3: I'm telling you very very straight, Katie. Just absolute nonsense, rubbish,

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Speaker 3: so nice, no goodness, Katie cokay.

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Speaker 1: All right, Minister for Police Nicole Madison, we are going

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Speaker 1: to have to leave it there. We always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for speaking with this extensively this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thanks k. Thank you.