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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: wants answers.

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Speaker 3: Now, I would rather my kids do the cross country

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Speaker 3: and walk the track and come in dead last and

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Speaker 3: have fun with their friends than stay home.

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Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show.

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Speaker 3: My mum and dad. Today. This is doctor Justin Colson.

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Speaker 3: I'm the author of a whole bunch of books about

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Speaker 3: raising happy families, including Ten Things Every Parent Needs to Know.

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Speaker 3: It's the best selling book that Kylie has been talking

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Speaker 3: about in our Happy Families book club for our Happy

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Speaker 3: Families members last night. I hope that that went well.

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Speaker 2: I can officially say that I've now read half of

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Speaker 2: your book.

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Speaker 3: That's great. So we've had this running gag, haven't we.

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Speaker 3: That you do the parenting while I do the writing

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Speaker 3: about parenting.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, I learn a lot about my life when

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Speaker 2: I read your book.

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Speaker 3: Come on like that. I don't write that much about

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Speaker 3: us I did in the early days. But yes, you

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Speaker 3: try to keep our lives a little bit private. That's

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Speaker 3: why we've got the podcast, so we can keep everything nice.

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Speaker 2: That's right, really quiet. I was having a conversation with

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Speaker 2: one of our friends the other day and they admitted

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Speaker 2: that they don't need to ring us anymore because they

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Speaker 2: just listened to the podcast. They get every update they need.

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Speaker 3: I think that you overshare. You told everybody that I

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Speaker 3: fell off the roof. I didn't fall off the roof.

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Speaker 3: I slid off the roof.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, well, today, I've got a really good one

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Speaker 2: for you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay.

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Speaker 2: I was having a very funny conversation with miss Emily

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Speaker 2: the other day.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so for those of you who are not introduced

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Speaker 3: to Emily at she's our seven.

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Speaker 2: Year old and we were getting ready for swimming and

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Speaker 2: she was having a hard time. She'd had a bit

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Speaker 2: of a meltdown. She didn't want to go. It's getting cold,

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Speaker 2: and the pool's outdoors. Even though it's heated, she's still

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Speaker 2: got to get out of her clothes in the cold

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Speaker 2: and then get into a hot pool. And so she

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Speaker 2: was kind of slinking in the car because there was

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Speaker 2: somebody next door, and she was trying to get undressed

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Speaker 2: a bit, giving her self some space and privacy. And

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Speaker 2: I noticed that she was trying to put her swimmers

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Speaker 2: on before she'd actually taken her underwear off. And I said, Emily,

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Speaker 2: I said, you forgot to take your underwear off. I said,

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Speaker 2: you don't want to have wet undies underneath your swimmers.

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Speaker 2: That would feel gross and she said, oh yeah, it would.

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Speaker 2: She said, Mom, how come dad wears undies under his bodies?

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Speaker 2: And I said, well, I said, it's a little bit

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Speaker 2: different for Dad. I said, because his penis would dangle

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Speaker 2: around and make you know all kinds of.

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Speaker 3: Right. I can't believe you said that.

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Speaker 2: Well I had to let her know.

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Speaker 3: Okay, all right, so I'm worrying. I'm wearing underpants to

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Speaker 3: keep everything together.

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Speaker 2: We keep everything together, that's right. And she said, Mom,

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Speaker 2: she said, do you have to say that? She said,

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Speaker 2: can't you call it meat balls? And I'm like meatballs?

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Speaker 2: I said, well no, because it's a penis. And I said,

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Speaker 2: and if I called it meatballs, then that would be

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Speaker 2: really weird because I like eating meatballs, but I don't

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Speaker 2: like eating a penis.

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Speaker 3: Can't You should have.

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Speaker 2: Seen her face. So we've had this conversation lots of

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Speaker 2: times about calling anatomy by its right name. Well, today

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Speaker 2: I learned that we also call it meatballs.

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Speaker 3: Right. I'm just wondering if we need to change the

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Speaker 3: rating on our podcast with a story like that. Oh

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Speaker 3: my goodness, I really hope that your parents and our

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Speaker 3: children don't listen to what you just said. Seriously. Oh gosh,

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Speaker 3: how are we supposed to recover from that? I'm really honest.

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Speaker 2: Some talking about your meatballs?

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Speaker 3: Seriously, Oh my goodness. There are so many things that

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Speaker 3: so many people are thinking right now about. I don't

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Speaker 3: I'm not even going to say it. I think we

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Speaker 3: should move on to the topic of today's conversation. Thank

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Speaker 3: you for sharing that. I think here's the email that

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Speaker 3: we got. No, normally we only share one. I can't

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Speaker 3: even look at you right now. Gosh, stop laughing. We

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Speaker 3: normally talk. I've completely lost for word. Are you hearing that?

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Speaker 3: I'm just thinking about it?

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Speaker 2: Would you like me to take over? You'd be the

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Speaker 2: co host today?

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Speaker 3: No, I've got this.

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Speaker 2: I want to be the anchor.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh. We normally receive a lot of questions via

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Speaker 3: podcasts at Happy Families dot com dot I think we're

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Speaker 3: going to receive a lot more than questions after that story.

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Speaker 3: Holy dooly. If you've had kids who have had conversations

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Speaker 3: like that with you, we would love to hear about it.

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Speaker 3: Email us so that we can share those stories. Podcasts

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Speaker 3: at Happy Families dot com dot IU, just so that

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Speaker 3: I cannot go bright red about what's happening in my

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Speaker 3: life right now. We normally answer one question a week,

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Speaker 3: but this week we've decided to answer too because term

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Speaker 3: two is getting away for Australian parents and cross country

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Speaker 3: season has arrived, and this question from Jane it's such

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Speaker 3: a good question, and we decided that we were going

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Speaker 3: to slop that in this week so that we can

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Speaker 3: be as helpful as we can. Janey emailed us and said,

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping someone can ease my guilt. It's cross country

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Speaker 3: day at the kids' school today. My seven year old's

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Speaker 3: been crying since five point thirty saying she's sick. Miss

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Speaker 3: five has been dancing and singing and running around the

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Speaker 3: house that is, saying it's cross country day. Meanwhile my

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Speaker 3: seven year old's doing everything she can to convince me

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Speaker 3: she's sick. I managed to get my seven year old

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Speaker 3: on the bus, but now I have intense guilt about it.

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Speaker 3: What do other parents do if their child doesn't want

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Speaker 3: to do cross country? I should also add seven year

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Speaker 3: old does have anxiety, and we went through a year

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Speaker 3: and a half of school refusal. Any advice appreciated, even

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Speaker 3: if it's to tell me that I should feel guilty

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Speaker 3: for sending her off for school. Oh, Janey, this is

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Speaker 3: this is a really big deal. Though. I get so

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Speaker 3: many parents say, am I supposed to force the kids

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Speaker 3: to do athletics? They hate athletics, they can't throw a javelin,

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Speaker 3: they're not interested in discuss or shot put? Or is

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Speaker 3: the swimming carnival? We haven't Some parents will say, we

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Speaker 3: haven't given our kids swimming lessons. They can't swim. Why

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Speaker 3: would we make them compete and look completely incompetent and

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Speaker 3: foolish in front of all their friends? What's the deal?

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Speaker 2: Are our kids right brain or left brain dominant?

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of myths out there about neuro psychology

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Speaker 3: and whether somebody is left or right brain dominant, And

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Speaker 3: there's a whole lot of stuff out there about how

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Speaker 3: we use one side of our brain more than the other.

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Speaker 3: It's not really how it works. Why do you.

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Speaker 2: Ask, Well, just the acknowledgment that you know each of

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Speaker 2: us have different skills and different talents, and I think

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Speaker 2: that you know, we're really big believers in getting involved,

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Speaker 2: being participated and being a part of things, But there's

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Speaker 2: also an acknowledgment that some of us just we're not

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Speaker 2: great at those things. And when you look at athletics carnival,

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Speaker 2: which is all competition based, then the last thing anybody

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Speaker 2: wants to do is be placed in a position where

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Speaker 2: they're going to come last.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so important. Let's talk about what Janie might do

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Speaker 3: next year with her anxious eight year old even though

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Speaker 3: she's seven this year and cross country has been and gone.

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Speaker 3: But for anyone who's got these carnivals or these meetings

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Speaker 3: at school coming up, whether kids are going to have

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Speaker 3: to compete, whether it's swimming or athletics or cross country

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Speaker 3: or whatever it might be, how do we work out

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Speaker 3: the balance between getting them to participate and give it

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Speaker 3: a really red hot go, but also acknowledging that some

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Speaker 3: kids are good at stuff and some kids aren't, and

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Speaker 3: is it actually right to do that. We'll talk more

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Speaker 3: about this in just a second. It's their Happy Families.

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Speaker 1: Podcat us Screens Creating Tension at Home, tweens, teens and

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Speaker 1: Screens is a webinar to guide families to healthy It's

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Speaker 1: say Superscreen Solutions Bye today at Happyfamilies dot com dot

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Speaker 1: au slash Shop.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now.

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Speaker 3: And this question from Jane, it's such a good question.

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Speaker 3: Do we or do we not send the kids to

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Speaker 3: the cross country races at school when they don't want

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Speaker 3: to go and they don't like running, and it's no

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Speaker 3: good can I know that you've got a few ideas

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Speaker 3: on this, but I really am dying to just jump

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Speaker 3: in and make one important point. I would rather my

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Speaker 3: kids do the cross country and walk the track and

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Speaker 3: come in dead last and have fun with their friends

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Speaker 3: than stay home.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but I'm going to ask you how much fun

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Speaker 2: are they having if they're coming last and their friends

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Speaker 2: are at the finish line.

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Speaker 3: Well, I remember the cool kids when I went to school,

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Speaker 3: Like I was always the one that ran really fast.

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Speaker 3: I tried as hard as I could in cross country,

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Speaker 3: and I was a good swimmer, and so I loved

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Speaker 3: cross country for that reason. But I remember watching some

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Speaker 3: of the kids that weren't interested in compete, and they

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Speaker 3: would literally just walk the course with a couple of friends.

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Speaker 3: So in every age group, there's going to be a

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Speaker 3: couple of kids that aren't going to have a go,

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Speaker 3: but they would walk it. And I would still rather

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Speaker 3: the kids be out and about. They're outside, they're with friends,

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Speaker 3: they're being social, and they're going for a three kilometer walk.

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Speaker 3: I'd rather than do that than stay at home and

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Speaker 3: be miserable. And so if I've got a child who's

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Speaker 3: absolutely refusing because they're going to say I'm going to

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Speaker 3: lose it's no fun, I'd say, well, why don't you

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Speaker 3: go for a three k walk with a couple of

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Speaker 3: friends who also don't want to compete. I think that

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Speaker 3: would be better. I know that there's nothing there about

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Speaker 3: school spirit and having a real go, but at least

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Speaker 3: they're doing more than they would do if they stay

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Speaker 3: at home.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, we can tap in beautifully to

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Speaker 2: the conversation we had on Tuesday about understanding and taking

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Speaker 2: the time to actually understand why children don't want to

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Speaker 2: be involved.

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Speaker 3: You know, for me, are you just giving me my

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Speaker 3: words back to me because I've skipped that bit today.

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Speaker 3: That's really impressive. Make me feel a little bit in common.

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Speaker 2: Maybe this podcast thing is dropping off on me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so you're saying explore their world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's really important. You know, I look

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Speaker 2: back at my years in primary school in particular, and

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Speaker 2: we had moved from New Zealand to Australia. The climate

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Speaker 2: was very different here, oh into in parison.

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Speaker 3: Doing a cross country run in New Zealand would be

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Speaker 3: nice and cool, Doing it in Brisbane not so much.

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Speaker 2: No, And so I can remember every you know, athletics,

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Speaker 2: carnival days, swimming, carnival, we're in the heat. The last

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Speaker 2: thing I wanted to do as an eleven year old,

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Speaker 2: twelve year old was sit in the Queensland heat all day.

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Speaker 2: When I knew that number one, I was really not

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Speaker 2: particularly skilled in any of these things. I was going

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Speaker 2: to come last every time. I was going to be

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Speaker 2: you know, the class clown. Everyone's going to laugh at

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Speaker 2: me because I tripped over on my shoes or whatever.

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Speaker 2: That was the last thing I wanted to be doing.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so climate is a bit of an issue, but

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking about people in Victoria.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we have another child.

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Speaker 3: Not going to be a climate issue there, mind you.

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Speaker 3: At the moment there's a lockdown. So anyone that had

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Speaker 3: cross country this year, good luck with that. That's not

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Speaker 3: going to be happening. Do a cross country within five

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Speaker 3: kilometers of your home, runner the block for three kilometers.

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Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, Victoria, but.

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Speaker 2: Abound another child. The chaos of a carnival and the

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Speaker 2: noise of a carnival actually really sends her over the edge.

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Speaker 2: So she will get through the day and by the

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Speaker 2: time she gets home she is an absolute wretch. She's exhausted, emotionally, physically,

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Speaker 2: just and you know, she has trooped it so many times.

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Speaker 2: She's gone along and she's she's tried, but I have

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Speaker 2: just watched you know what it does to her physically,

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Speaker 2: mentally and emotionally, and it's not worth it, right.

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Speaker 3: And then you've also mentioned the competence issues a minute ago,

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Speaker 3: just falling over or not being fast enough or feeling

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Speaker 3: lousy about it. Let's talk science for a sec Research

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Speaker 3: tells us that kids thrive when they have three basic

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Speaker 3: psychological needs. Met relatedness. They like to be with people

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Speaker 3: that they love and that they belong to their tribe

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Speaker 3: or their family or both. Secondly, autonomy, they want to

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Speaker 3: have a sense of control, and Third, competence. So if

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Speaker 3: the school is putting on a carnival and your child

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Speaker 3: feels completely incompetent, they're not going to be motivated, and

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Speaker 3: it's not going to.

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Speaker 2: End up being a positive experience VELO.

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Speaker 3: And then we're going to force them, so they're not

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Speaker 3: going to have the need for control met because we're

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Speaker 3: controlling them. So now they feel incompetent and they feel controlled.

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Speaker 3: And because they feel incompetent and they feel controlled, they're

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Speaker 3: looking at us making them do it, and our relationship

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Speaker 3: suffers as well. So we actually undermine their basic psychological

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Speaker 3: needs by forcing them to compete in these athletics carnivals,

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Speaker 3: these cross country carnivals. I'm thinking of the kid who

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Speaker 3: can't swim very well and their parents say, well, you've

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Speaker 3: got to go to the swimming carnival and you've got

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Speaker 3: to give it your best, and there's that great drowning

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Speaker 3: while they're drowning. Yeah, and there's that great quote from

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Speaker 3: Albert Einstein. I'm sure everyone's seen it on social media.

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Speaker 3: Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish

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Speaker 3: by its ability to climb a tree, it will live

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Speaker 3: its whole life believing that it's stupid.

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Speaker 2: I love I've never heard that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how good is that?

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Speaker 2: I love it because it really taps into this idea

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Speaker 2: that we've each got our own strengths. I think it's

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Speaker 2: really important for us as parents to be able to

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Speaker 2: help our children recognize what their strengths are, celebrate those strengths,

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Speaker 2: and give them opportunities to develop and grow them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So let's go back to this important

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Speaker 3: question because it is cross country season for a lot

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Speaker 3: of families around the country at the moment, do you

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Speaker 3: or don't you send the kids to a do cross country?

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Speaker 3: If they're saying, but I don't want to do it.

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Speaker 3: I hate cross country. It's so dumb and I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to be any good at it. So before we

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Speaker 3: talk about our take home message and what the answer

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Speaker 3: to this might be for most families, I think it's

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Speaker 3: really important as well that we address the question why

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Speaker 3: is it so important to us as parents that our

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Speaker 3: children go in these competitions.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting, because of the way we've chosen to raise

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Speaker 2: our children, we do not have a single child who

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Speaker 2: actually enjoys competition.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. In fact, I've made a really clear point of

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Speaker 3: saying that competition often undermines our well being. There's research

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Speaker 3: that shows actually for children that when things get competitive,

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Speaker 3: they tend to feel less resilient, not more resilient.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we've watched it with all of our girls.

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Speaker 2: They've all gone through swimming lessons, squad training, and they

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Speaker 2: are strong swimmers. And every year the swimming carnival comes around,

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Speaker 2: and every year they tell us they don't want to participate,

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Speaker 2: and every year we say, come on, give it a go.

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Speaker 2: You know as well as I do that you're probably

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Speaker 2: the best swimmer in the school.

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Speaker 3: And they usually end up being age champion or something

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Speaker 3: like that.

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Speaker 2: They do every time, but they just hate the fact

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Speaker 2: that they're competing against their friends. They don't want to

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Speaker 2: win in place of a friend.

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Speaker 3: And the other thing about winning when you're going up

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Speaker 3: against people who aren't really good at what you're doing,

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Speaker 3: is it feels like a pretty hollow victory. They're like, oh, yeah, what,

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Speaker 3: I'm the best swimmer, but I'm the only one at

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Speaker 3: the school that actually gave it a go. Squad training

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Speaker 3: are actually tried in the pool, and it's the same

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Speaker 3: with the cross country. So we don't think that competition

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Speaker 3: and there's enough research to say that competition is not

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Speaker 3: great for kids, but parents still value their kids giving

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Speaker 3: it a go. Parents still really want to push their

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Speaker 3: children into it, and for me. I want to take

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Speaker 3: that step back again and go to that Einstein quote

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Speaker 3: and basically highlight if you've got a child who doesn't

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Speaker 3: want to try in the cross country, at least get

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Speaker 3: them out for a good walk and spend time with

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Speaker 3: their friends if you can. But there's a broader conversation here,

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Speaker 3: and that is when you explore what's going on in

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Speaker 3: their world. What are they good at? What do they

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Speaker 3: want to have a go at, And let's make sure

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Speaker 3: that they're having a go at something. They don't have

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Speaker 3: to be good at everything. They don't even have to

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Speaker 3: try it everything. I think it's ridiculous that we should

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Speaker 3: all have to try it everything. But let's figure out

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Speaker 3: what we're interested in trying in and make sure that

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Speaker 3: the kids get opportunities there. What's to take our message?

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Speaker 2: I think we need to explore. We need to understand

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Speaker 2: right why our children are feeling the way they are

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Speaker 2: about it and then come up with solutions together. Is

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Speaker 2: it that will go to a morning tea. Is it

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Speaker 2: that we'll be involved in one race.

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Speaker 3: Is it that will show up and do the walk

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Speaker 3: rather than the run?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or the acknowledgment that every athlete needs to have

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Speaker 2: a cheer squad. Are you going to be chair squad today?

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Speaker 2: I like that we live in a community and every

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Speaker 2: one of us plays a part in that community, and

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Speaker 2: we can't all be the superstars, but we can be

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Speaker 2: a part of it. And if we can show our

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Speaker 2: children that they matter and that them being a part

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Speaker 2: of things matters, that actually makes a difference. What's it

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Speaker 2: like when you go to a carnival and you've got

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Speaker 2: a great, big cheer squad over on the side. It

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Speaker 2: feels good, doesn't it. The energy grows and you're excited

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Speaker 2: to be there. I think we need to help our

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Speaker 2: children see that it's not there's not just one way

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Speaker 2: to participate.

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Speaker 3: Jane. We really hope that our response to your email

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Speaker 3: is helpful and for everyone who's got athletics and cross

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Speaker 3: country carnivals coming up, we hope this gives you some

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Speaker 3: food for thought and that this has been a useful

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Speaker 3: podcast conversation. As always, our podcast is produced by Justin

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Speaker 3: Ruland from Bridge Media and Craig Bruce is the executive

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Speaker 3: producer of the Happy Families podcast. If you like more

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Speaker 3: info about how you can make your family happier, you

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Speaker 3: can find everything that you need at happy families dot com,

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Speaker 3: dot au s,