1
00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,040
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

2
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,040
Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcotin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

3
00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,280
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

4
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,840
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

5
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799
Speaker 1: Straight Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

6
00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,599
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

7
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday,

8
00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:32,760
Speaker 2: the second of November.

9
00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,040
Speaker 3: I'm Nina, I'm Sam.

10
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,960
Speaker 2: It's been a few months since the US Supreme Court

11
00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,640
Speaker 2: overturned Roe v. Wade, removing North American's constitutional right to

12
00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 2: access safe and legal abortions. Now the U s. Supreme

13
00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,680
Speaker 2: Court is looking at cases related to affirmative action and

14
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,760
Speaker 2: college admissions. We'll explain what affirmative action is and what

15
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court's decision could mean in today's deep dive.

16
00:00:56,960 --> 00:00:58,840
Speaker 2: But first, what's making headlines.

17
00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 3: Well, Nina, interest rates are only going one way and

18
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,679
Speaker 3: that is up. The Reserve Bank of Australia lifted the

19
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,240
Speaker 3: cash rate for the seventh consecutive month yesterday by zero

20
00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 3: point twenty five percentage points. It now sits at two

21
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 3: point eight five percent. RBA Governor Philip Lowe said the

22
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,760
Speaker 3: rate rises have been necessary to establish a balance in

23
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,759
Speaker 3: the Australian economy amid high levels of inflation.

24
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,920
Speaker 2: Property prices across Australia fell by one point two percent

25
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,520
Speaker 2: in October. According to property data firm core Logic, the

26
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,600
Speaker 2: median house in Australia is now worth just over seven

27
00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,040
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty one thousand dollars. Brisbane saw the biggest

28
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,040
Speaker 2: monthly decline of all the capital cities, while the smallest

29
00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:45,240
Speaker 2: downturns were in Perth and Adelaide.

30
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 3: A forty two year old man has been charged with

31
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 3: attempting to kidnap Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the US

32
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,000
Speaker 3: House of Representatives. The man entered her San Francisco house

33
00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 3: last week and assaulted her husband Paul, with a hammer.

34
00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 3: The suspect told police he plans to hold Pelosi hostel

35
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,680
Speaker 3: and would quote break her kneecaps if she lied to him.

36
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 2: And the good news, Taylor Swift has become the first

37
00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,280
Speaker 2: artist to claim all the top ten songs in the

38
00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 2: Billboard Hot one hundred charts in a single week. All

39
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 2: the tracks are from the eleven Time Grammy winner's tenth

40
00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,639
Speaker 2: original studio album, Midnights, which was released last month, Yeah

41
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:27,440
Speaker 2: T Swift. In today's deep dive, we're going to look

42
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,880
Speaker 2: at affirmative action for college admissions in the US and

43
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 2: how a US Supreme Court decision could change the way

44
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,639
Speaker 2: universities deal with diversity.

45
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,080
Speaker 3: Let's start at the beginning of this story. What is

46
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,040
Speaker 3: affirmative action.

47
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,440
Speaker 2: So, at its most basic level, affirmative action is the

48
00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,280
Speaker 2: process of trying to correct historical prejudice by taking diversity

49
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,840
Speaker 2: into account when looking at applications. So it could be

50
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 2: for a job, or in the case we're going to

51
00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,480
Speaker 2: be talking about, it's for applicants for universities. And the

52
00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,440
Speaker 2: idea of that is that this balances this scale to

53
00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 2: make things more fair for everyone.

54
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,919
Speaker 3: And so this exists as an idea across a number

55
00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,560
Speaker 3: of industries all around the world. But today we're talking

56
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,960
Speaker 3: about how US universities have dealt with affirmative action historically speaking.

57
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,520
Speaker 3: What's their approach to this.

58
00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,079
Speaker 2: Well, it started in the nineteen seventies when the Supreme

59
00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,680
Speaker 2: Court ruled that colleges could use race as a factor

60
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,680
Speaker 2: when considering applications to the universities. So it's not that

61
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,600
Speaker 2: race would be the determining factor or the only factor,

62
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,280
Speaker 2: but it just meant that they could consider race as

63
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,960
Speaker 2: a factor. And universities use this ruling to introduce affirmative

64
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,200
Speaker 2: action programs in whatever way they saw fit.

65
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,000
Speaker 3: And it's important to note that this is not the

66
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 3: Australian way of getting into university, where you go through

67
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,200
Speaker 3: a central body and you've got a number and you

68
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 3: get admitted into a course that you applied for. There's

69
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 3: a whole different process, right.

70
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's much more complicated, and I think you know,

71
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 2: if you've watched enough movies or shows set in the US,

72
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:56,640
Speaker 2: you'll see the kind of process that people have to

73
00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 2: go through. You're sending in cover letter is explaining why

74
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 2: you want to attend that university. Sometimes you have to

75
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 2: pay money just to apply, and for very prestigious, highly

76
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,520
Speaker 2: selective universities, you often have to prove you're worthy with

77
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 2: an essay or an interview or you know, a more

78
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:13,120
Speaker 2: detailed application.

79
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:15,800
Speaker 3: And we also know from pop culture just how hard

80
00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,719
Speaker 3: it is to get into some of those higher universities.

81
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:20,240
Speaker 3: And I know in the US they call them the

82
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:24,160
Speaker 3: Ivy League universities. And it's all about privilege. And kind

83
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,800
Speaker 3: of the private school education except for colleges over there, right.

84
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,919
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and if you have had the privilege of

85
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,039
Speaker 2: going to a private school, it means you're probably going

86
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 2: to be more equipped for that whole application process. And

87
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,000
Speaker 2: it just means that for someone who might have disadvantages,

88
00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,320
Speaker 2: whether it's race or socioeconomic status, or a disability or

89
00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,359
Speaker 2: a combination of all of those factors, it's going to

90
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,080
Speaker 2: be a lot harder to get into those very prestigious schools.

91
00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 2: And that's where affirmative action comes in. Universities introduce these

92
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:53,599
Speaker 2: programs so they can look at a student as a

93
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 2: whole and not just their grades or their accolades, but

94
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,480
Speaker 2: who they are and where they come from.

95
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,320
Speaker 3: Okay, So that's how a firm of action works. What's

96
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,880
Speaker 3: happening now with the Supreme Court, which is the highest

97
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,320
Speaker 3: court in North America.

98
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 2: So there's two universities that have affirmative action programs which

99
00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 2: are currently before the Court. So one is Harvard and

100
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,200
Speaker 2: the other one is the University of North Carolina, which

101
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,760
Speaker 2: we'll call UNC. Harvard is a private university and UNC

102
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,279
Speaker 2: is public, so they're funded differently, and there's a bunch

103
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:24,919
Speaker 2: of different rules about what they both can and can't do.

104
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,559
Speaker 2: But they're both facing legal challenges in the Supreme Court

105
00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,680
Speaker 2: for giving applicants preferential treatment basically.

106
00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,640
Speaker 3: And so you'd think the background of these universities, whether

107
00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 3: they're private or public, introducing affirmative action programs is trying

108
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,719
Speaker 3: to combat some of that racism. It sounds like a

109
00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,839
Speaker 3: pretty good idea. Who's bringing the action against them?

110
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,080
Speaker 2: So back in twenty fourteen, a conservative activist named Edward

111
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:54,960
Speaker 2: Bloom founded an organization called Students for Fair Admissions. His

112
00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,360
Speaker 2: organization then filed a lawsuit against Harvard, and he was

113
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 2: alleging that it's affirmative action program was actually discriminating against

114
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 2: Asian American students by favoring black and Latino students.

115
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 3: That's a bit call. Did he have any data for it?

116
00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 2: Well, Harvard commissioned an independent review to look into those claims,

117
00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 2: and they say, no, there isn't any substantiation for that claim.

118
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,479
Speaker 2: In fact, the percentage of Asian Americans admitted to Harvard

119
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 2: has grown every year, and almost a quarter of this

120
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,600
Speaker 2: year's group of Harvard first years are Asian American. Harvard's

121
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 2: lawyers argue Bloom's organization is misrepresenting data to push his

122
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 2: own agenda. And they argue that race is a fact

123
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,640
Speaker 2: that they consider for admissions because they want to diversify

124
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,320
Speaker 2: the student body. But it's not a pass failed system

125
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,040
Speaker 2: where you're rejected or admitted purely based on your race.

126
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 3: Okay, that's the Harvard case. Tell me about North Carolina.

127
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 2: So, similarly to Harvard, UNC has been sued by Blooms

128
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,839
Speaker 2: Organization students for fair admissions, and again it's on the

129
00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 2: grounds that they give unfair preferences to black and Latino

130
00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:00,560
Speaker 2: students over white and again Asian American students. But what's

131
00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,240
Speaker 2: interesting about this case is that UNC only began enrolling

132
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,599
Speaker 2: black students in nineteen fifty five, a year after the

133
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 2: Supreme Court outlawed segregation in all public schools. By nineteen

134
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,480
Speaker 2: sixty three, there were only eighteen black first year students,

135
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 2: and today only nine percent of students at UNC are black,

136
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,440
Speaker 2: less than half of the actual percentage of black people

137
00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 2: in the state of North Carolina.

138
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,520
Speaker 3: So both of these cases are live in front of

139
00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court. Do we have any early indication as

140
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,400
Speaker 3: to what the Supreme Court could decide in these cases?

141
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:33,160
Speaker 1: Well?

142
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's still live the decision is probably only

143
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 2: going to come through June next year, so we'll have

144
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,880
Speaker 2: to wait and see. But there are nine justices on

145
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 2: the Supreme Court, and six of them are openly conservative

146
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 2: and were appointed by a Republican Senate. And I don't

147
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 2: want to speak for them, but in their line of questioning,

148
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 2: it does seem to indicate they aren't hugely supportive of

149
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 2: affirmative action in principle. On the other hand, Justice Sonia Sotomaya,

150
00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,120
Speaker 2: the first Hispanic judge and one of the reprogressive judges

151
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,440
Speaker 2: in the Supreme Court. She said she actually benefited from

152
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,960
Speaker 2: affirmative action when she was admitted to Ivy League colleges,

153
00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,520
Speaker 2: including year law school. But you know, these things all

154
00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,520
Speaker 2: come down to numbers in the Supreme Court, and analysis

155
00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 2: by The New York Times suggests that the conservative majority

156
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,200
Speaker 2: in the Supreme Court could make affirmative action programs at

157
00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:22,520
Speaker 2: US colleges illegal.

158
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,160
Speaker 3: We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back.

159
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 3: What do you think US colleges would look like if

160
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:29,840
Speaker 3: it was illegal.

161
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 2: We have some interesting examples to look at as a

162
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,600
Speaker 2: point of comparison, because the state of California banned affirmative

163
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,400
Speaker 2: action in nineteen ninety six, and when they did that,

164
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:45,520
Speaker 2: enrollment from racial minority groups at public universities including UCLA

165
00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,120
Speaker 2: and Berkeley dropped by nearly fifty percent. And at the

166
00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,920
Speaker 2: University of Michigan, where affirmative action was banned statewide in

167
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,280
Speaker 2: two thousand and six, the enrollment of black students still

168
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 2: hasn't returned to the pre bann levels, despite millions of

169
00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 2: dollars they spent in outreach programs. So I think with

170
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,880
Speaker 2: those examples, it's fair to say that a nation wide

171
00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,760
Speaker 2: band on affirmative action in colleges would have a pretty

172
00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 2: big impact.

173
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,600
Speaker 3: The Supreme Court of the United States continues to change

174
00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,479
Speaker 3: the shape and structure of the country, and it's definitely

175
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 3: a body that keeps us on our toes. And whilst

176
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,720
Speaker 3: it's still a while away for the decision, we'll definitely

177
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,439
Speaker 3: keep you up to date should there be any further

178
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:30,680
Speaker 3: developments in this space. Thanks for joining us on the

179
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,560
Speaker 3: Daily Ods this morning. If you learned something from today's episode,

180
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,439
Speaker 3: don't forget to hit subscribe so there's a TDA episode

181
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 3: waiting for you every weekday morning. Have a great day

182
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:40,600
Speaker 3: and we'll be back again tomorrow.