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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, if their settings are not on a high level

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Speaker 2: of privacy, what's going to happen is that the school

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Speaker 2: bus could potentially become an X rated movie theater.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson. Today we're going to

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Speaker 2: be speaking about technology and the metaphorical car crash that

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Speaker 2: everybody rubernecks as they drive past. My guest today on

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Speaker 2: the podcast is Kira Pendergast had Kira on about a

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Speaker 2: month ago and we had a really just such an

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Speaker 2: important conversation about TikTok and the risk gay move that

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Speaker 2: so many of our kids are are engaging in. Today,

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about something that I think and

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be one of those news people

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Speaker 2: who trade in the art of fear mongering, but Kira,

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Speaker 2: this is a conversation that every parent whose child has

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Speaker 2: a phone just has to listen to. A couple of

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Speaker 2: months ago on Facebook, you posted something about air drop

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Speaker 2: and cyber flashing. We need to talk about this because

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Speaker 2: so many kids being affected by it. Because parents give

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Speaker 2: their kids smartphones and so many of those smartphones have

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Speaker 2: an air drop feature or something similar. Can you tell

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Speaker 2: us a bit about the things that you and I

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Speaker 2: both discovered around air dropping and how this cyber flashing

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Speaker 2: thing works, because mums and dads will need to know

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Speaker 2: so they can have yet another conversation with their children

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Speaker 2: about the dangers of technology.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it comes out quite a lot.

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Speaker 1: And this has been around for quite some time now,

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Speaker 1: but at the beginning of each school year, I get

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Speaker 1: an influx of messages from parents, particularly with kids starting

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Speaker 1: year seven who are going off to high school for

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Speaker 1: the first time. And you know, then someone who's in

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Speaker 1: one of the senior years thinks it's hilarious to air

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Speaker 1: drop them a nude or something along those lines, or

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Speaker 1: it will happen on the bus or the train on

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Speaker 1: the way to school through public transport.

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Speaker 3: You know, it goes on.

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Speaker 1: So air drop on an Apple iPhone, for example, will

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Speaker 1: allow people to wirelessly share images. So if you haven't

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Speaker 1: got that lockdown to contacts only or not accepting these

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Speaker 1: files that are effectively being thrown up into the Internet

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Speaker 1: to the cloud and then back down to another device nearby,

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Speaker 1: you can receive any images, and it's very hard to

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Speaker 1: unsee some of the things that they're seeing.

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Speaker 2: So, Kira, just for those who are sort of shaking

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Speaker 2: their head and going, what is this air drop of

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Speaker 2: which you speak? It's been a feature for many many

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Speaker 2: years now on the Apple iPhone, but a lot of

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Speaker 2: people still don't know what it is or how it works.

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Speaker 2: I know you've just said it, but I want to

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Speaker 2: restate it for people who might have been trying to

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Speaker 2: just comprehend what you were saying. Essentially, depending on what

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Speaker 2: your settings in your iPhone allow, there is a function

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Speaker 2: where every now and again, an alert might pop up

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Speaker 2: on your where somebody's with The alert basically says somebody

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Speaker 2: is trying to air drop an image to you, and

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Speaker 2: it gives you a thumbnail sized view of what that

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Speaker 2: image is, and then you have the opportunity to either

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Speaker 2: accept it or reject it. Now, if you've got your

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Speaker 2: settings in air drop to contacts only, what that means

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Speaker 2: is that the only people who can air drop your stuff,

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Speaker 2: that is, send you a Bluetooth wireless whatever image or message.

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Speaker 2: The only people that can do that are people in

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Speaker 2: your contacts. But sometimes that setting is on public, so

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Speaker 2: anybody in your vicinity, anybody whose phone can talk to

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Speaker 2: yours nearby, they can actually send you an air dropped image.

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Speaker 1: Correct, So anyone within around ten meters of the receiving

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Speaker 1: device can and the Bluetooth activated can send files. And

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Speaker 1: so that includes like, it's not just iPhones, it's iPads,

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Speaker 1: it's nack books, it's anything.

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Speaker 2: Apple, okay drop. So, just because I want to absolutely

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Speaker 2: hammer this point home for every parent who is listening

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Speaker 2: right now, if your child has an iPhone or an

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Speaker 2: Apple product that has that level of connectivity, and all

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Speaker 2: of the new ones do and several models.

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Speaker 3: Back as well watches as well, yeah.

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Speaker 2: You're great, great there. If their settings are not on

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Speaker 2: a high level of privacy, what's going to happen is

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Speaker 2: that the school bus could potentially become an X rated movie.

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Speaker 3: Theater totally and often does.

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Speaker 2: Without their explicit consent. That is it. It just flashes

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Speaker 2: up on their watch, on their phone, on their tablet,

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Speaker 2: on their laptop, whatever it is that they're using. Would

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Speaker 2: you like to accept this message? And there's the image

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Speaker 2: right there in front of them, And like you said,

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Speaker 2: you can't unsee this once you've seen it. It's right

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Speaker 2: there that's right.

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Speaker 1: And again because of the law, if it's a young

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Speaker 1: person sharing these photos highly illegal.

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Speaker 3: Okay, it sits in that whole.

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Speaker 1: Production distribution of child exploitation material Sending a pornographic image

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Speaker 1: to somebody who is under the age of a teen

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Speaker 1: is highly illegal in every single state in this country

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Speaker 1: as well. So you've got all of those complexities that

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Speaker 1: roll into it as well. And then we've often got

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Speaker 1: kids are too scared to speak up because they think

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Speaker 1: if they tell mom and dad what just happened, Mum

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Speaker 1: and dad again to take the.

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Speaker 2: Phone off them, right, And that's the obvious knee jerk reaction. Right,

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, it's not safe. You can't have a phone.

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Speaker 2: Here's what I'm taken it away from you, and I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna I mean, for years, I've been saying that smart

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Speaker 2: parents give their kids dumb phones. Anyway, like your young

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Speaker 2: kids don't need a smartphone, but it's harder and harder

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Speaker 2: to get a dumb phone, and increasingly kids want a

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Speaker 2: phone if I can't have a smartphone, because they look

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Speaker 2: like they're a loser in front of all of their friends.

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Speaker 2: So parents are kind of it's one of those things.

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Speaker 2: What do we do.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: Piece of advice number one here, I presume get the

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Speaker 2: settings right. So set your settings so that the private.

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Speaker 1: At the settings right and make sure you know. I

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Speaker 1: have parents every week say this has happened.

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Speaker 3: I've taken the phone off them. What should I do now?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, take her out for a hot chocolate,

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Speaker 1: thank her for speaking up. Don't ban her from a

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Speaker 1: device because it was nothing that she did. She's asking

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Speaker 1: for help or he's asking for.

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Speaker 3: Help, you know, and.

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Speaker 1: Look after them, encourage them to speak up. These are

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Speaker 1: the conversations you want to be having, because if you

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Speaker 1: ban a child from a device when they said that

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Speaker 1: something happened to them or they know of something going on,

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Speaker 1: if you ban them from it, they're going to drive.

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Speaker 3: It's going to drive every conversation you want to be

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Speaker 3: having as a parent underground.

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Speaker 1: So you want to keep those conversations happening. So encouraging

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Speaker 1: them to speak up so that you can help them,

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Speaker 1: or you can engage professionals like myself, yourself, whoever to

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Speaker 1: help in these situations is invaluable.

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Speaker 2: So glad you said that the idea of taking the

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Speaker 2: phone off the kids. Absolutely, it just makes me think, well,

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Speaker 2: I've got to hide this. I can't talk about it.

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Speaker 2: A few weeks ago, we had Kristen Jensen on the phone.

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Speaker 2: She's written a couple of books for kids about explicit

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Speaker 2: at content about pornography called Good Pictures, Bad Pictures, And

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Speaker 2: there's one for the junior kids as well, the sort

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Speaker 2: of the three, four, five, six year olds, really really

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Speaker 2: smart lady, and she basically, I guess what I'm doing

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Speaker 2: is I'm re emphasizing what you've said, She says, talk

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Speaker 2: to your kids proactively. Let them know, no matter how

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Speaker 2: hard we try, there are going to be some people

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Speaker 2: who eventually are going to put bad pictures in your path.

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Speaker 2: And when that happens, we need to know what we're

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Speaker 2: going to do. And what we're going to do is

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Speaker 2: we're going to turn it off, we're going to move away,

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Speaker 2: and we're going to tell someone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And if we can just teach our kids to do that,

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Speaker 2: we get to have productive, helpful conversations. We get to

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Speaker 2: check the settings, we get to keep the kids safe.

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Speaker 2: We get to talk about were you curious? Of course

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Speaker 2: you were, because we're designed to be curious about this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Did it make you feel good or bad?

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Speaker 3: Though?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. It did make you feel bad because

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Speaker 2: this is not the time or the place for you

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Speaker 2: or really anybody to be exposed to this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: So your advice around this is spot on. There's one

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Speaker 2: more conversation we need to have. I'm not sure that

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Speaker 2: there's a whole lot more we can talk about other

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Speaker 2: than raising awareness of this cyber flashing air drop issue.

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Speaker 2: But something else that's been happening for a couple of

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Speaker 2: years now, but seems to have really, at least in

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Speaker 2: conversations that I've been having, and I know you're having

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Speaker 2: these conversations all the time. Something else that's come up

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Speaker 2: in relation to sextortion on social media, particularly particularly for

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Speaker 2: our daughters, but for some boys as well. Let's talk

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Speaker 2: about that right off the break. Between fifteen and twenty

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Speaker 2: percent of teens have anxiety. Anxiety is one of the

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Speaker 2: leading causes of mental illness in our children, and as parents,

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Speaker 2: we want to know where is it coming from, can

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Speaker 2: we stop it, and how do we help our children

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Speaker 2: just feel better? Start by learning how to recognize anxiety

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Speaker 2: in your child, how to respond, and how to give

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Speaker 2: them hope and the anxiety in your child. Webinar can

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Speaker 2: help it's available Happy Families dot com dot au. It's

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Speaker 2: the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the type or

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Speaker 2: parent who just wants answers. Now it's doctor Justin Colson

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Speaker 2: today spending some time with Safe on Socials Kira Pendergast,

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Speaker 2: who is I think one of the nation's leading experts

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Speaker 2: in all things tech when it comes to keeping our

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Speaker 2: kids safe online. Kira, in a conversation that we had

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Speaker 2: a little while ago, you were highlighting just how many

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Speaker 2: of our kids are exposing themselves through grooming, or through threats,

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Speaker 2: or through any number of other things and finding themselves

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Speaker 2: in some very very dangerous and uncomfortable situations things that

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Speaker 2: and it happens like it's one of those things where

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Speaker 2: everyone goes, oh, well, that would never happen to me,

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Speaker 2: That would never happen to my kids. But it happens

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Speaker 2: a lot. This is not an uncommon thing. Can you

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Speaker 2: tell me a little bit about the sextortion, particularly on

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Speaker 2: Instagram that you've been coming across in your work with

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Speaker 2: high school kids.

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Speaker 1: You may want to put a big disclaimer warning content

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Speaker 1: warning of a huge level here. There's no way that

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Speaker 1: I can sugarcoat what's going on in this space. It's

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Speaker 1: a blunt conversation. Teens are curious. Through direct message on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: they will often get messages.

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Speaker 3: From people that they don't know that link.

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Speaker 1: Them straight to pornographic adult entertainment website. They will get messages.

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Speaker 1: I've had everything from catfishing, which is when someone's pretending

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Speaker 1: to be somebody else and it could be other kids

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Speaker 1: in a school and they're using it for a laugh,

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Speaker 1: and they've sent images to a young person boy or girl,

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Speaker 1: pretending to be someone of the same sex, opposite sex,

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Speaker 1: or whatever. That child is leaning into it that particular

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Speaker 1: point in their life and pretended to be someone that

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Speaker 1: was interested in them, convinced them to set and nude

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Speaker 1: photo and then shared it or used it as a joke.

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Speaker 1: And then you know the sextortion that I'm seeing more

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Speaker 1: often than not at the moment. And for those that

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Speaker 1: don't understand what that is, it's you know, it's literally

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Speaker 1: a combination of the words sexual and extortion. It's a

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Speaker 1: very serious crime when someone threatens to distribute intimate or

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Speaker 1: private and sensitive material of a sexual nature without your consent. Now,

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Speaker 1: when anyone is under the age of eighteen in Australia

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Speaker 1: that's involved in that that.

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Speaker 3: Is distribution of child exploitation material.

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Speaker 1: So again it's highly illegal and there's multitude of laws

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Speaker 1: around that that I'm happy to provide you a list

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Speaker 1: of them all justin if you want to put them

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Speaker 1: in the show notes.

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Speaker 3: I've written them all out.

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Speaker 1: So what they'll do is they'll often target people and

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Speaker 1: through direct message on Instagram or direct message requests. I

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Speaker 1: should say, they're never going to come from a child's friend.

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Speaker 1: They're going to come from some random person that is

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Speaker 1: trying to exploit that child. And recently I had a

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Speaker 1: case where the girl involved was sixteen. She was actually

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Speaker 1: at home, sitting on the couch next to her mother

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Speaker 1: when she got a direct message request on Instagram. So

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Speaker 1: that little ping that goes off the notifications that we

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Speaker 1: always encourage kids to turn off so they're not tempted

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Speaker 1: to look at that the ping went off, she's had

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Speaker 1: a look gone.

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Speaker 3: Into this message.

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Speaker 1: The person said send us a nude in sixty seconds,

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Speaker 1: or we're going to send this image, and they cropped

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Speaker 1: an image of a young woman laying naked on a

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Speaker 1: bed from neck to knee that we're going to send

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Speaker 1: this image to the last three people that clicked like

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Speaker 1: on one of your Instagram photos and say it to you,

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Speaker 1: and she.

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Speaker 3: Called their bluff and blocked it.

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Speaker 1: They came back under another username, and they did that

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Speaker 1: five times, and on the last one they said, we

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Speaker 1: told you, and they did it.

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Speaker 3: And so they sent it.

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Speaker 1: To three boys that ended up being in the same

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Speaker 1: town as this young girl who she played sport with

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Speaker 1: on the weekends. And so she was a mess when

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Speaker 1: she came up to me after the session, because I'd

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Speaker 1: explained what this was in my high school session and

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Speaker 1: she said it had happened to her the night before.

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Speaker 1: I explained that because it was a disclosure, we had

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Speaker 1: to go and talk to the principle and we did

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Speaker 1: that and we called the local police and her mom

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Speaker 1: and they all came in, and the police went to

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Speaker 1: the boys at the other school and said, you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't her, and they were very respectful young men

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Speaker 1: and they said, we didn't think it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: And it was all shut down very very quickly.

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Speaker 3: But again, it's that we were really lucky.

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Speaker 1: In this situation that this young woman had such a

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Speaker 1: good relationship with her mom that she told her mom

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Speaker 1: instead of her mom freaking out and taking the phone.

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Speaker 3: Off her and everything like that.

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Speaker 1: They did, went through the whole process and reported it properly,

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Speaker 1: and so the mum already knew. The mum had contacted

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Speaker 1: the police the night before. We contacted them again.

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Speaker 3: And got it all sorted out. So again, it's about

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Speaker 3: speaking up.

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Speaker 1: Now. When I explain this kind of situation to a

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Speaker 1: primary school age child, it's again encouraging them to speak up,

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Speaker 1: because if I do ask who's too scared to tell

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Speaker 1: mum and dad what's actually happening online, most of the

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Speaker 1: room will put their hand up. So I encourage them

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Speaker 1: to tell a teacher or another trusted adult, and to

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Speaker 1: remember that these people are on the other side of

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Speaker 1: a screen.

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Speaker 3: They are completely one hundred.

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Speaker 1: Percent safe as long as they speak up and tell

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Speaker 1: someone immediately. When someone threatens them in any way online,

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Speaker 1: or says they're going to share an image and pretend

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Speaker 1: it's them, or anything that makes them feel uncomfortable, they need.

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Speaker 3: To speak up.

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Speaker 2: Kira, I really appreciate the story, as hard as it

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Speaker 2: is to hear, and what I appreciate even more is

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Speaker 2: the way that it was taken seriously by the parents,

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Speaker 2: by the school, by the law enforcement, and by the

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Speaker 2: boys recipients of that message. I mean, it could have

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Speaker 2: gone sideways in so many different places, but fortunately we've

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Speaker 2: got a sequence of events that has worked out really

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Speaker 2: neatly and fortunately for that young woman really quite positively.

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Speaker 2: What this highlights, and we don't need to wrap this up,

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Speaker 2: but it highlights a couple of things to me, and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to dive in with a little bit of

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Speaker 2: parenting advice if I can. First off, we've just got

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Speaker 2: to be talking to our kids consistently. We've got to

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Speaker 2: be in their lives and monitoring, not in a let

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Speaker 2: me snoop over your shoulder and have a look at

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Speaker 2: everything you're doing because I can't trust you a way,

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Speaker 2: but rather having regular conversations and checking in, like you've

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Speaker 2: said in our discussion, making sure that they know who

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Speaker 2: is following them and who they're following, making sure that

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Speaker 2: they do regular cleanouts, make sure that their feeds are

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Speaker 2: full of inspiring and positive ideas rather than negative ones,

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Speaker 2: and perhaps most importantly of all, teaching them that you

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Speaker 2: don't open direct messages on Instagram or any other app

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Speaker 2: from people that you don't know. I mean, you and

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Speaker 2: I I'm sure have had countless messages that come into

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Speaker 2: our inboxes from people that we don't know. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: and as adults, we can kind of tell what this

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Speaker 2: is going to be.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, when you're when you're when you're a self

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Speaker 3: conscious teenager and someone sends you a message going, oh,

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Speaker 3: you're so beautiful or you're so handsome or you're so hot,

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Speaker 3: and I won't really want to be a friend and

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Speaker 3: stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: If they're lonely and bored in their bedroom at night,

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Speaker 1: they're more likely to.

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Speaker 3: Want to do that. That's why, you know, my number

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Speaker 3: one tip for parents has always banned.

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Speaker 1: The phones from the bedroom in the bathroom, full stop,

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Speaker 1: the end of story.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, been over that. It was with six daughters.

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Speaker 2: You can imagine how many times I've had that conversation

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Speaker 2: with my kids. And I think the other the other

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Speaker 2: big take home. I mean, there's so many things we

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Speaker 2: could pull out of these conversations today. But the other

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Speaker 2: big take home for me is get those settings set

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Speaker 2: with a recognition that the kids can and often will

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Speaker 2: work around it. But it's just part of that whole

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Speaker 2: talking monitoring being in their lives and making sure they

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Speaker 2: come and talk to you. I mean, god, yeah, you've

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Speaker 2: shared some really really valuable content. As always, Kira, it's

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Speaker 2: a delight to talk with you on the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Justin.

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Speaker 2: Kira Pendergast runs Safe on Social. She's the CEO and

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Speaker 2: has noodles and noodles of value that she can bring

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Speaker 2: to the work that you do with your kids and

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Speaker 2: try to keep them safe online if it's tech, she

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Speaker 2: knows it really great to have Kira as a friend

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Speaker 2: of the Happy Families Podcast. We really appreciate as always

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Speaker 2: the work of Justin Roland and Craig Bruce. They're the

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Speaker 2: ones who produce and executive produce the podcast to make

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Speaker 2: it sound great. And if you'd like more info about

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Speaker 2: making your family happier, we would love for you to

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Speaker 2: join us in our Happy Families memberships. You can find

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Speaker 2: all the information you need happy families dot com dot

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Speaker 2: au