1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: Collaboration can sometimes be a pretty volatile part of work. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Working alongside great people can make even the most mind 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: numbingly boring tasks feel like pure play. But when you 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 1: don't gel with a particular team, even a passion project 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: can become a drag. So how do you make sure 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: you're collaborating with the right people and collaborating in the 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: right way. Author and coaching expert Michael Bungay Standia wants 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: you to have these conversations before you even start working 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: with a new collaborator, before any project begins. He recommends 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,879 Speaker 1: co writing and Operating Manual, a set of processes and 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: guidelines for collaborating. So what are the most important questions 12 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: to ask when you're thinking of working with someone? My 13 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: name is doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and 14 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is 15 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: how I work, a show about how to help you 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: do your best work. On today's My Favorite Tip episode, 17 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: we go back to an interview from the past and 18 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: I pick out my favorite tip from the interview. In 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: today's show, I speak with Michael Bungay Stania and we 20 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: start with what would happen if you started working with 21 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: Michael tomorrow, because there is a very specific process that 22 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 1: he would take you through. 23 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: I call it building our operating Manual. So the origin 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: of this comes from a guy called Peter Block, who 25 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,400 Speaker 2: if you're in the world of kind of organizational change 26 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: and stuff like that, you may have heard his name, 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 2: and he talks about something called a social contract. And 28 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 2: the bottom line is it's good to talk about how 29 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 2: we're going to work together before we talk about what 30 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: we're going to work on together. So this is a 31 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 2: conversation that's helpful if you're you know, you have somebody 32 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: new coming on your tea where you start working with 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: a vendor or a contractor or anybody. Really you got 34 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: a relationship where you like, we want this to be 35 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 2: really good. The temptation is always to go, let's talk 36 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: about the project, what needs to be built, what are 37 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 2: we starting, what are our KPIs, and what are our 38 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: c's or OCR or whatever, And that pressure to an 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: excitement to get stuff done often kind of sweeps you 40 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: into that type of conversation and you're in the honeymoon 41 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 2: of this relationship with this new person, just like you're 42 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: awesome and I'm awesome. And we're awesome, this project awesome. 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: What could possibly go wrong? And the thing is, something 44 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: will go wrong everythingcause it always goes wrong. It always 45 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: goes off the rails a little bit. So I'm really 46 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: enamored and trying and have the discipline to have a 47 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: conversation about let's let's talk about our operating manual. And 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: I've just got a few questions or and I don't 49 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 2: ask all of them all the time, but a few 50 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: questions that I feel like help us having a conversation 51 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: to go. Let me tell you how to get the 52 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: best out of me, and I want you to tell 53 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: me how to get the best out of you. So 54 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 2: I'll say things like, you know, so, Amantha, when you've 55 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: worked with somebody like me before in a project like 56 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 2: this and it's gone really well, tell me what happened, 57 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 2: what did you do, and what did the other person do? 58 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: And then I'll answer the question myself. You know, when 59 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 2: I worked on somebody like you and Mantha on a 60 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: project like this and it went really well, here's some 61 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: of the stuff that happened, And I'll go and when 62 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: you've worked with somebody like me on a project that's 63 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: kind of been a bit of a disaster or just 64 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,160 Speaker 2: kind of mediocre. What happened? You know, what did you do? 65 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: And what did they do? And we're building up understanding 66 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 2: about one of the contexts in which we flourish and 67 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 2: one of the contexts in which we struggle. You know, 68 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: a great one is, and this is a question directly 69 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 2: from Peter Block, how do you feel about the amount 70 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,680 Speaker 2: of power you have in this relationship? That's a that's 71 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: a really hard question to ask. It's it always takes 72 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: people are back, but it's it's it's really good at 73 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,400 Speaker 2: kind of going. How who has control here? And how 74 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 2: do you feel about that? 75 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: I love that. 76 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 2: I'll give you one one more question and then we 77 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 2: can we can ask me about it if you want. Another. 78 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: One is when things go badly wrong or go off 79 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: the rails a little bit, because they always do, what's 80 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: your unilateral act? How do you respond? And you know 81 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: I can always tell people, look, I'm not that great 82 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 2: a conflict, So you'll move into you'll just stop hearing 83 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,359 Speaker 2: from me, and and this is by and this is 84 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: the way to pull me out of that. So we 85 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 2: actually have a conversation about this is what I look 86 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 2: like when I'm behaving badly or under stress, and here's 87 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: how you can manage me best to get me out 88 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 2: of that doom loop. And I'll get them to tell 89 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:51,119 Speaker 2: me the same. 90 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: That's really interesting. So at invent here we have a 91 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: very similar strategy. Whenever we have a new starter on 92 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: the team, we get the and completing We call it 93 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: the OP on the one page operating Manual. And yeah, 94 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: for us, the way we think about it, it's like 95 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 1: software hardware. All that stuff comes with a manual about 96 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: how to use it. But I mean humans are far 97 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: more complex, but we don't come with a manual, and 98 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: so we try to create one. So I'm really interested 99 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 1: in those questions that you ask. Something else that we 100 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: ask is what are your pief points? Like what are 101 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: the things that just really frustrate you? And we find 102 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: we get some interesting answers. What do you do though, if, like, 103 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: if you're working with someone and maybe there like their 104 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: insight into themselves and particularly you know, their shadow side 105 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: their weaknesses is not that good? How do you draw 106 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: those responses out more effectively? 107 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I try and do it in the 108 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 2: moment because for me, it is the process of having 109 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: gone through this allows us to come back and have 110 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 2: this conversation again. And so more important to me than 111 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: the answers is the fact that I've said this, by 112 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 2: the way, we have these type of conversations when we 113 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: work together. 114 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: So would you then have those conversations at regular intervals, 115 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,919 Speaker 1: like where you're not talking about the project and the 116 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: work per se, but you're talking about the relationship and 117 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: all the time relational things really all the. 118 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: Time, like I would say with you know, on my 119 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 2: immediate team. So I kind of am part of two 120 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 2: companies at the moment. I own a training company that's 121 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 2: run by a CEO and I talked to her monthly 122 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 2: at but formerly on her performance quarterly. And then I 123 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: have a little small kind of startup company where I 124 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:47,600 Speaker 2: have one employee, and with Ainslie every six weeks we'll 125 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 2: have a conversation around how's this going? And it's not 126 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 2: about the work, it's about how is it going for 127 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 2: you as a human being? How has it going for 128 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 2: me as the person who's your nominal boss. What do 129 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 2: we need to do differently to do that? One of 130 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: the questions that both with Shannon, who's the CEO of 131 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: Boxer Crayons, and Ainsley, who is kind of had she 132 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: works at MBS dot works. One of the questions that 133 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: is most powerful in this is what needs to be 134 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 2: said that hasn't yet been said, because that just creates 135 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 2: space for us to go, Ah, you know that thing 136 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 2: that's hard to talk about, or I've been looking for 137 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 2: the moment to sneak it into the conversation and I 138 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 2: haven't quite figured out how to say it because it's 139 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: a bit confronting to me or a bit confronting to 140 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: you or whatever. What needs to be said that hasn't 141 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: yet been said is just a permission to lay down 142 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: the the the as yet unspoken, and that is a 143 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: great cleanser and builder of resilience into into the relationships. 144 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: Oh, I'm gonna take that one. 145 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: That I stole it from somebody else I can't remember who, 146 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 2: so steal away because it is it is a beauty. 147 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: And on another note, amount I end my podcast at 148 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: the moment that's the final question. I always ask people 149 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 2: and it's great. Sometimes people go I got nothing, some 150 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: people At times people go, that was a good conversation, 151 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 2: thank you, And some people go, here's the thing I 152 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 2: really wanted to tell you. I'm like brilliant and we'll 153 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: have a bit more of a chat. 154 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: I am such a fan of this process. At Inventium, 155 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: our one page operating manual has become a bit of 156 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: a staple and it has massively fast tracked getting to 157 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: know new starters. If you would like to download the 158 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: template that we used, you can visit the Inventium Labs 159 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: page which I have linked to in the show notes, 160 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: and you can find it there. If you're looking for 161 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: more tips to improve the way that you work, I 162 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things 163 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: that I've discovered that helped me work better, ranging from 164 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 1: software and gadgets that I'm loving through the interesting research findings. 165 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: You can sign up for that at how I Work 166 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: That's how I Work dot co. How I Work is 167 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: produced by Inventing with production support from dead Set Studios. 168 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: And thank you to Matt Nimba who does the audio 169 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: mix for every episode and makes everything sound so much 170 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: better than it would have otherwise. See you next time.