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Speaker 1: Black cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Women Podcast acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this

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Speaker 1: episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land

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Speaker 1: where you, the listener or viewer, are tuning in from.

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Speaker 1: We would like to pay our respects to our elders

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Speaker 1: past and present and acknowledge that this always was Aboriginal

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Speaker 1: land and always will be Aboriginal land.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandinara Bails.

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Speaker 1: Hey you mob, Welcome to another episode of Black Magic

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Speaker 1: Woman here on the beautiful lands of the Yager People's.

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Speaker 1: I cannot wait for you to listen to this yarn.

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Speaker 1: Everyone listening or watching this yarn is long overdue. But

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Speaker 1: I have been following Aunt and her journey for quite

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Speaker 1: some time, and I'm not going to give anymore away

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Speaker 1: right now. So do you mind just sharing with my

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Speaker 1: listeners and also our viewers on YouTube, your name, your mob,

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Speaker 1: and a little bit about your mob or your community.

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Speaker 2: We wandera Manda Naah, thank you for this opportunity to

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Speaker 2: come onto your podcast. I'm Alvarina Johnson, but my main

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Speaker 2: name is Murger from Yarrabai original community, which is about

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Speaker 2: sixty kilometers southeast of Cannas. I am a Konganji woman

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Speaker 2: on my grandfather's side and Wallabari Dingy on my grandmother's side.

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Speaker 1: So and I've heard you speak a few times. I

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Speaker 1: actually I think it was in Melbourne out a women's

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Speaker 1: leadership summit I heard you speak for the very first time.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise I'm watching you from afar. You spoke about your journey,

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Speaker 1: your mum and children and you're living in Brisbane at

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Speaker 1: once upon a time. You're just talking about your journey

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Speaker 1: and some of the really good things that have happened

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Speaker 1: to you and some of the things that have also

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Speaker 1: created some of the trauma in your life. But I

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Speaker 1: want to focus on the beautiful things that you've been

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Speaker 1: able to do in recent times. You've been doing art

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Speaker 1: for quite some time, and I know over Yarraba there's

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Speaker 1: an art center and weaving and pottery, so I've got

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Speaker 1: to come over there properly and sit down with you

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Speaker 1: over there and meet some of the deadly women over there.

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Speaker 1: But how did you get into practicing art or doing

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Speaker 1: art creating art?

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Speaker 2: Well, I come from a pretty creative family most but

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Speaker 2: most of them are all musicians and singers, So so

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Speaker 2: my first passion was singing and songwriting. So I've done

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Speaker 2: that for quite some time because my mom's saying, my

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Speaker 2: uncles and you know, my aunties. My grandmother was a

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Speaker 2: soprano singer in the church choir, so I guess following

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Speaker 2: you know, their footsteps, but also dabbing into the the

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Speaker 2: creative aspects of expression, I guess, and storytelling. So I'd

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Speaker 2: always sort of been, you know, at a young age,

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Speaker 2: scribbling and doling and all of that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't until probably maybe you know, in my

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Speaker 2: early twenties, I started thinking that, you know, I could

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Speaker 2: I could do this other form of art as well.

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Speaker 2: I could do singing, I could do all those other things.

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Speaker 2: But I wanted to do some visual stuff.

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Speaker 3: So I just.

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Speaker 2: Mainly did a lot of drawings and sketching and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that, but I never really made a big deal

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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what was you drawings?

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Speaker 2: So I was drawing things like fish and things to

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Speaker 2: do with the beach and the ocean because I grew

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Speaker 2: up on the beach in a little tin shack with

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Speaker 2: my parents and my siblings, and so inspiration was all

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Speaker 2: around me. So there's you know, seashells or it's this fishing,

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Speaker 2: all of that kind of stuff that was part of

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Speaker 2: my everyday living, and so it wasn't it wasn't hard

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Speaker 2: to be inspired by those things and bring that storytelling

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Speaker 2: into my artwork about growing up.

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Speaker 3: I just sort of continued.

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Speaker 2: On doing that and got involved in some smaller exhibitions

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Speaker 2: and stuff, and started getting opportunities to be involved in

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Speaker 2: other spaces, and in particular fashion with Grace Lilly and Lee,

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Speaker 2: who invited me to be part of her one of

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Speaker 2: her first, very first actually hubs in terms of nurturing

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Speaker 2: up and coming fashion designers. So I got, yeah, I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'll do this. I'n't done it before, but

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Speaker 2: I don't mind the challenge and pushing boundaries a bit.

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Speaker 2: So I got involved in that and then it was

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Speaker 2: a really good experience, and that was a collaboration with

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Speaker 2: University of Technology. Then at that time it was really

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Speaker 2: good to be able to be part of that process.

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Speaker 2: And then yeah, it just started getting in, you know,

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Speaker 2: a bit more confident in how I wanted to bring

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Speaker 2: my own style and my own storytelling. So I use

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Speaker 2: a lot of things around nets and shells and things

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Speaker 2: like that into my my fashion designers Boset, but at

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Speaker 2: that time it was more like wearable art, so it

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Speaker 2: was more just storytelling and one offs.

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Speaker 3: And then I sort of.

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Speaker 2: Got the opportunity to do collaboration with Taking Shape clothing stores.

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Speaker 2: So this year we released our third collaboration, which is

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Speaker 2: really good.

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Speaker 1: So Taking Shape ts true story. I was heavily pregnant.

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Speaker 1: I was about one hundred and twenty Ki Lows. I

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Speaker 1: only wore Taking Shape. I had the swimwear, I had

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Speaker 1: all of it. Yeah, and then when I saw your collaboration,

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Speaker 1: I was like, it's not just for big girls anymore.

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Speaker 1: But I've still got the trauma in my head of

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Speaker 1: when I was a big girl. That's the clothing I wore.

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Speaker 1: And then I had my weight loss surgery and I've

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Speaker 1: lost it on my weight I haven't bought a piece yet,

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Speaker 1: but then I saw your collaboration. I'm like, one day

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go buy a piece on these beautiful

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Speaker 1: mannequins now in my ears.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and you're right there. So's they've gone down

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Speaker 2: to size ten I think size ten to size twenty.

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Speaker 3: Two something like that.

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Speaker 1: They never had small size back in the day's ah,

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Speaker 1: so ize fourteen onwards. Yep.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that was because when the collaboration started,

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of women who wanted, you know,

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Speaker 2: the smaller sizes and like their clothing but taking shape. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's one of those places where because I

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Speaker 2: used to shop there all the time. And how it

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Speaker 2: all started was I walked in there one day and

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Speaker 2: wanted to something to attend friend's fiftieth birthday, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't sort of find anything, so all I saw was

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Speaker 2: this denim jacket, and so I said, I'll just get

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Speaker 2: this jacket. I painted myself. This was sort of thinking myself,

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Speaker 2: and so I went up to the counter and I

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Speaker 2: told the lady what I was doing, and she said, oh,

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Speaker 2: just send me a photo of what you paint on

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Speaker 2: your jacket. And I actually said that, I mean, for me,

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Speaker 2: I'm always speaking diversity, and you know, we're always sort

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Speaker 2: of activists in very subtle ways about stuff. So I said,

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Speaker 2: you know, this is it's really good to have a

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Speaker 2: bit of diversity in your store in terms of design work.

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Speaker 3: So so I sent.

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Speaker 2: The photo back and probably within two weeks of that,

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Speaker 2: the head office got in touch with me and said,

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Speaker 2: would you be interested in doing a collaboration with US,

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Speaker 2: and I like jumped out us. I did a bit

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Speaker 2: of research first and about the company and what it

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Speaker 2: stood for, and I like what they stood for though.

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Speaker 2: They were all about making women feel good and you know,

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Speaker 2: all shapes and sizes being acceptable and basically empowering women

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Speaker 2: through clothing, and so I thought, yeah, I can do that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was an alignment of values. Yeah, yeah, So it

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Speaker 2: was because I didn't sort of jump at it because oh,

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Speaker 2: it's a big opportunity. I wanted to make sure that

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Speaker 2: I agreed with their values and it was you know,

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Speaker 2: true to who I was and what I stood for

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Speaker 2: as well, and that's in terms of valuing women. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: when that opportunity came, I thought, yeah, this is my

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Speaker 2: opportunity to make a difference.

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Speaker 1: And what is it done for you? What is this

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Speaker 1: collaboration done for you? Have you been able to I

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Speaker 1: don't know, travel the world, go to different run shows

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Speaker 1: or fashion shows, like what what are the what opportunities

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Speaker 1: have now presented?

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Speaker 2: Well through that first collection, we were able to be

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Speaker 2: part of Sydney Fashion Week with Grazally Lee First Nations

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Speaker 2: Fashion and Design. So the jacket one of the jackets

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Speaker 2: with my artwork on.

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Speaker 3: It was featured in Vogue as well, and you're.

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Speaker 1: Talking about Vogue Magazine, Vogue Magazine, Fashion in Vogue magazine.

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Speaker 2: Vogue and also Vogue the USA Online. So I was like,

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Speaker 2: when they sent me the email, I literally threw my

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Speaker 2: phone up in the air and I thought, oh my goodness,

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Speaker 2: it's just like, you know, something you don't expect because

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Speaker 2: you're just doing You're just doing what you love doing.

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Speaker 2: But the outcome of that, it was it went a

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Speaker 2: lot deeper than that, and which was something I think

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Speaker 2: I really value was that having my artwork on there,

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Speaker 2: and the labels and my name and all that, but

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Speaker 2: more most importantly, what those stories were about. And it

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Speaker 2: was for me, it was using clothing as an education tool,

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Speaker 2: so telling people about stories and the values that came

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Speaker 2: with those stories. I had a lot of people, especially

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Speaker 2: non indigenous people, email me, send me photos and say, look,

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Speaker 2: I didn't know never heard these stories before, but the

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Speaker 2: values behind the stories really spoke to them, and that

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Speaker 2: they'd never been to an Indigenous community or had any

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Speaker 2: contact with an Indigenous person in terms of building a

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Speaker 2: relationship or whatever, but they learned something through wearing the

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Speaker 2: clothes and so when you hear stuff like that, you realize, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know, there are ways of building relationships with people and.

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Speaker 1: Sharing our stories. Yeah through fashion.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I love the fact that there's young Murray from

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Speaker 1: Yarraba and for listeners that they have no idea where

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Speaker 1: Yarrabar is far north Queensland, and it's it's not remote

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Speaker 1: because Cairns is right there and it is like probably

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Speaker 1: the number one tourist destination in Queensland. It's right near

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Speaker 1: the Great Barrier Reef. So you get a lot of

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Speaker 1: people international visitors coming to Gimois to cans Wallabara, Yidingy

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Speaker 1: Country and you're about what forty minutes drive.

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Speaker 2: We're about sixty kilometers southeast of Kans. We're the closest

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Speaker 2: indigenous community to Cairns, but we're also the largest in

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Speaker 2: Australia by mass and by population, so we're pretty close

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Speaker 2: to Cairns and some.

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Speaker 3: Deadly talent and there's a lot of talent and Yarraba

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Speaker 3: a lot of gifted people.

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Speaker 2: We do have an art center there, but I work

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Speaker 2: as an independent artist, so I also run a cultural

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Speaker 2: tourism business.

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Speaker 1: Business.

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Speaker 2: So Paperback Arts and Cultural Tools is based on my

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Speaker 2: private property in Yarraba. So it's being built and profiled

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Speaker 2: as a creative space. So you know, we do the

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Speaker 2: cultural tools, but we also use it as a space

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Speaker 2: to run events, do workshops and all different things that

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Speaker 2: were so we're still building that and so it's it's

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Speaker 2: one of those multi purpose spaces that that's the aim anyway,

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Speaker 2: to have that space for.

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Speaker 1: So who supports you? Who's your little team? Yes?

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Speaker 3: So my team is family members. Yes.

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Speaker 2: So I don't, you know, get government funding to run

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Speaker 2: my business. It's all been from scratch and I always

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Speaker 2: say my currency was my culture. So using that currency

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Speaker 2: to you know, build the business, and I think that's

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Speaker 2: the most sort of valuable thing you could have to

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Speaker 2: use it in a positive way.

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Speaker 1: What's some of the lessons that you've learned in business

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Speaker 1: in being an entrepreneur? What do you call yourself? Fashion design?

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Speaker 3: Just al, I'm just me.

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Speaker 2: But lessons that I've learned is never to give up

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Speaker 2: and keep going and don't always depend on people. You

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Speaker 2: just keep doing and using your own strengths to get

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Speaker 2: through and the people who want to help you will come.

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Speaker 2: So that's been a bit of a and been a

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Speaker 2: bit of a challenge. I guess bringing my son on board,

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Speaker 2: because he had a very different way of thinking. So

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Speaker 2: there were you know, which was about learning experience for me,

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Speaker 2: And I think if you don't have those learning experiences

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Speaker 2: and everything is all, you know, all fuzzy and warm inside,

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Speaker 2: then you don't see the realities of trying to run

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Speaker 2: a business. But you've got to have those classes, you've

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Speaker 2: got to have those challenges, challenges, those moments where you

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Speaker 2: just you know, feel like, oh, what's the point in

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Speaker 2: me doing this? But yeah, so that was a big

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Speaker 2: challenge because my son had as he's a creator himself,

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Speaker 2: so him getting into that space, he was a lot

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Speaker 2: more better at all the technology stuff than I am.

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Speaker 3: So I was grateful for that.

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Speaker 2: But and he's been able to incorporate a lot of

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Speaker 2: stuff that I know didn't get to do. So he's

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Speaker 2: engaging a lot more people and feeling filling those gaps.

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Speaker 3: Filling those gaps for sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean there were times when I said, oh, you're sacked,

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Speaker 2: but next minute.

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Speaker 3: Or else, I don't want to work for you anymore.

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Speaker 1: But that's saving my business with my sister, Yark, with

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Speaker 1: her daughters, with my husband, and now I got my

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Speaker 1: daughter and she's twenty and she's at Black Card. She's

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Speaker 1: nearly one month. Yeah, she's done a traineeship at Combank.

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Speaker 1: Finish your twelve Combank for twelve months. And so I

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Speaker 1: don't just want to hire my family. I want to

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Speaker 1: hire my family that have the skills, yes, and the

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Speaker 1: capability and the drive to be able to work in

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Speaker 1: a high pressured environment. And you know there's businesses looking

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Speaker 1: after Combank in Google. So it'd be good to give

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Speaker 1: every black follow in my family an opportunity. But not

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Speaker 1: everybody has the drive that's right, exactly your passion, the motivation,

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Speaker 1: the dedication. So what would you say if you could

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Speaker 1: share some words of wisdom, especially to the younger mob

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Speaker 1: coming through the ranks when it comes to even starting

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Speaker 1: a business.

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Speaker 2: Oh, look, definitely there's opportunities. I think starting off wanting

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Speaker 2: with the big idea can be quite romantic at the time,

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Speaker 2: where you you know, you've got this big idea, big

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Speaker 2: dreams about whatever. But the hard work along the way,

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Speaker 2: that's where that's what matters the most, is sticking to

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Speaker 2: it and not being afraid to ask for help and

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Speaker 2: you know, and bring in people who can do some

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Speaker 2: things a little bit better. Than you, and sometimes we

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Speaker 2: don't want to admit that, but you know, we do

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Speaker 2: have opportunities where say with my son, he's a lot

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Speaker 2: more better at all the social media stuff than I am.

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Speaker 3: Over yeah, so I said, well, yeah, you can do that,

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Speaker 3: and I've seen what he can do.

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Speaker 2: So I guess just being persistent as well and not

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Speaker 2: giving up because I've witnessed a lot of people who

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Speaker 2: have great ideas and want to start a business, but

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Speaker 2: then doing the hard work is when they decide it's

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Speaker 2: too hard for me. So I think, just keep on

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Speaker 2: going in pursuing your dreams and because you never know

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Speaker 2: where it's going to lead you. And it's all about

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Speaker 2: empowering ourselves and our community, our families. And I too

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Speaker 2: want to employ my family and I know I'm not

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Speaker 2: at that stage yet. So and it's a good thing

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Speaker 2: that you know, with our families, black families, you know,

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Speaker 2: you'll tell them are you're sacked, but they still come

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Speaker 2: back and.

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Speaker 1: Say no, right, you know, more is another day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so's it's good. And I think having expertise

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Speaker 2: around to help with other things as well. So I'm

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Speaker 2: a little bit fortunate when my son is a law

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Speaker 2: sons is a lawyer, so he you know, sort of

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Speaker 2: gives me. I just happened to him when I need

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Speaker 2: a little bit of legal advice or whatever. But and

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Speaker 2: most recently, you know, one of my sons passed away

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Speaker 2: over almost two years ago, and he was part of

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Speaker 2: that dream too to have something of his own as

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Speaker 2: part of the bus business, so which we often took

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Speaker 2: because he loved to cook. And unfortunately, you know, he

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Speaker 2: passed away, but I'm trying to continue on his dream

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Speaker 2: and legacy. So I bought a coffee van which I

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Speaker 2: will name after him. So we're hoping to have that

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Speaker 2: as part of the another feature of the business on

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Speaker 2: the property. So it will be called that O's Cafe,

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Speaker 2: So we'll be you know, doing tea and coffee and

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Speaker 2: all things that comes with it, sitting under the tree

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Speaker 2: and out on country and you know, so something with

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Speaker 2: a bit of difference. But there's yar Rochinaina, that's you know,

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Speaker 2: Ross and his wife.

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Speaker 3: But a good little business happening there.

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Speaker 1: So there's no shortage of opportunities from mob. And I

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Speaker 1: was just gonna say, in terms of my final little

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Speaker 1: question here is what are your hopes for the future.

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Speaker 2: My hopes for the future is that I'll you know,

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Speaker 2: create opportunities for my family, my children, my grandchildren who

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Speaker 2: you know, carry on that legacy. And the good thing

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Speaker 2: about is it's all happening on my own property, so

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Speaker 2: there's room for that to grow and not not just

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Speaker 2: business wise, but for my family to continue on with

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Speaker 2: that and you know, trying to create that generation wealth

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Speaker 2: and stop taking the crumbs and build my own bakery.

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Speaker 1: So I love that, stop taking the crumbs and build

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Speaker 1: our own bakery. Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Why not?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And it's all about And I always say to people, well,

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Speaker 2: you keep asking why can't I do this?

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Speaker 3: And I always so, well, why not? Why not?

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Speaker 1: Back yourself?

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Speaker 2: Fuck yourself? And what's stopping you? No one going to

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Speaker 2: do it for you?

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: And it's been an absolute privilege to listen to your

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Speaker 1: yarn and your story, your journey, and just to hear

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Speaker 1: about mob that are growing up in community on our

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Speaker 1: own country that have been able to create into generational wealth, opportunities,

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Speaker 1: multiple businesses. It's just amazing and not enough people, especially

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Speaker 1: when it comes to mainstream media that do nothing but

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Speaker 1: demonize our people. Like this podcast to me means a

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Speaker 1: lot because I get to showcase the best, the worst,

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Speaker 1: the hard times, the good times. Our lives are. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's not all like you said, smooth sailing. There's hurdles,

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Speaker 1: there's challenges, but at the end of the day, our

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Speaker 1: people are pretty deadly. Despite all of the odds that

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Speaker 1: are against us, we still manage to get through and

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Speaker 1: make something out of, you know, some of the situations

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Speaker 1: that we're in, just to turn our lives around and

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Speaker 1: to make something out of ourselves. And you've been you know,

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Speaker 1: that example in your community and in your family, but

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Speaker 1: a really good example for not just Indigenous people to

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Speaker 1: look at about what you can do and opportunities that

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Speaker 1: you can create if you're passionate and if you're determined.

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Speaker 1: So thank you. You've inspired me. I love fashion and

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Speaker 1: I can't wait. I've always said, you know, when I

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Speaker 1: go into my ears and I'm looking at this and

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Speaker 1: my husband says to me, no, no, no, no more clothes.

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Speaker 1: One day I'm going to get a piece and I'll

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Speaker 1: send a photo and post it online when I do.

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Speaker 1: But I just want to say thank you for making

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Speaker 1: time while you're here in Mangangin to jump on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for this opportunity, and I appreciate giving me

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Speaker 2: space to share my story.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, just do.

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Speaker 2: The mob out there, like you know, don't give up,

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Speaker 2: just keep going. If you can't do it for community,

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Speaker 2: just do it for yourself.

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Speaker 1: Just inspirational on so many levels. I love actually being

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Speaker 1: part of a family of all women. I've had eight sisters.

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Speaker 1: Just seeing women thrive and literally take our rightful place

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Speaker 1: in our families and community and in this country now

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Speaker 1: known as Australia. It's deadly. It fills my cup and

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Speaker 1: I can't wait for a lot of my listeners to

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Speaker 1: be able to hear this yard. So thank you again

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Speaker 1: for making the time. It's been an absolute pleasure. And

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Speaker 1: I bet you next time I see you, it'll be

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Speaker 1: on your country for sure. You're welcome to come do

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Speaker 1: your podcast anytime. I'll be there, don't you worry. With

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Speaker 1: my swag and my tribe.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to make do a cooking some bush food

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Speaker 2: deadly or give mob.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's so many things that I want to

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Speaker 1: share in terms of like you know, recapping the yarn.

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Speaker 1: You know, don't take the crumbs on the table, just

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Speaker 1: go build your own bakery, Like why not if that's

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Speaker 1: what you want to do. But I know that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot that's going to be in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: We can reach out to Annie Alvarena in terms of

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Speaker 1: the cultural tools Paperbark or also getting your hands on

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Speaker 1: a piece of fashion with her collaboration with Taking Shape.

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Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed this amazing, inspirational yarn with the

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Speaker 1: one and only Annie Elverina Johnson. Thank you. Have a

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Speaker 1: Deadly day all night. It depends where you are in

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Speaker 1: the world. Until next time, By for now. If you'd

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Speaker 1: like any more on today's guest, please visit our show

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Speaker 1: notes in the episode description. A big shout out to

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Speaker 1: all you Deadly Mob and allies who continue to listen, watch,

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Speaker 1: and support our podcast. Your feedback means the world. You

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Speaker 1: can rate and review the podcast on Apple and Spotify,

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00:23:47,391 --> 00:23:50,231
Speaker 1: or even head to our socials and YouTube channel and

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Speaker 1: drop us a line.

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Speaker 3: We'd love to hear from you.

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Speaker 1: The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis,

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Speaker 1: wh