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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now. So I've just finished reading a book, Kylie. It's

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Speaker 2: called Get Married. Get Married is the like just picking

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Speaker 2: it up and looking at it. Get Married. It's a

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Speaker 2: provocative title for a book. Get Married by a University

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Speaker 2: of Virginia sociologist. He's also the lead researcher on a

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Speaker 2: project in the United States called the National Marriage Project.

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Speaker 2: His name is Professor Brad Wilcox.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that that's the title of his book when

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Speaker 1: my understanding is that marriage numbers are declining.

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Speaker 2: They actually are across the Western world. Fewer people are

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Speaker 2: getting married. Partnering is as popular as ever. But making

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Speaker 2: the commitment to sign up for a lifetime of monogamy,

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Speaker 2: I thought you.

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Speaker 1: Want to say misery, no, no, no monogamy.

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Speaker 2: In fact, well, and here's the interesting thing about the book.

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Speaker 2: The research shows that if you can have a happy, safe,

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Speaker 2: supportive marriage, it's the golden ticket to happiness. It's one

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Speaker 2: of the best predictors. In fact, it is the best

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Speaker 2: predictor of happiness in our lives.

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Speaker 1: Check this out.

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Speaker 2: I found something just finding the stat here. The odds

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Speaker 2: of being very happy increased by sixty four percent if

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Speaker 2: you have a college degree over those who don't. In

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Speaker 2: other words, people who have a university degree is sixty

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Speaker 2: four percent more likely to be very happy than those

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Speaker 2: without the degree. Oh, by the way, I should just

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Speaker 2: highlight I'm about to say a whole lot of provocative stuff.

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Speaker 2: I'm not in a soap box here. I'm just looking

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Speaker 2: at pure stats. Okay. It doesn't mean that if you

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Speaker 2: don't have a university degree you can't be happy. It

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Speaker 2: just means that the odds are being very happy go

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Speaker 2: up by sixty four percent if you've got that degree.

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Speaker 2: Plenty of people with degrees are miserable, and plenty of

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Speaker 2: people without degrees are wonderfully happy. This is just on

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Speaker 2: average statistically, that's how it goes. Odds of being very

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Speaker 2: happy with higher income increased by eighty eight percent. If

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Speaker 2: you're very satisfied with your work, the odds are being

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Speaker 2: very happy increased by one hundred and forty five percent

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Speaker 2: over those who are not happy with their work. The

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Speaker 2: odds of being very happy increase by one hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty one percent if you're married over those who are

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Speaker 2: not married but get this, if you are in a

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Speaker 2: very happy marriage compared to those who are not married.

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Speaker 2: To those who are not in a happy marriage, the

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Speaker 2: odds are being very happy increased by five hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty five percent. Marriage predicts happiness better than education, better

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Speaker 2: than work, better than money.

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Speaker 1: It's an astounding stat So how do you do the

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Speaker 1: mass on something like that.

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Speaker 2: I like, it's a big number.

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Speaker 1: I'm struggling with my words because I'm actually looking at

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Speaker 1: the graph, and when you look at it pictorially, you've

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Speaker 1: got a teeny tiny little blue line down here for

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Speaker 1: sixty four percent, and then it's like having a I

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Speaker 1: don't know, two hundred story building right next to it.

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Speaker 1: This five hundred and fifty five percent, five hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty five sorry, h five hundred and forty five percent

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Speaker 1: better chance of being very happy.

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Speaker 2: So simple way of looking at this is they simply

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Speaker 2: ask people whether well being is up to and then

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Speaker 2: they look at their various sociodemographic statistics. So, are you married,

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Speaker 2: you're not married, what sort of education level do you have?

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Speaker 2: All those kinds of things, and they literally just look

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Speaker 2: at the odds of scoring in the very high range

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Speaker 2: based on what those boxes are that you ticked. And

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Speaker 2: so if you've ticked that box and said I'm in

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Speaker 2: a very happy marriage, the odds of you being very

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Speaker 2: happy are five and a half times greater than the

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Speaker 2: likelihood of you being happy if you're not in a

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Speaker 2: very happy marriage.

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Speaker 1: That's it.

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Speaker 2: It's actually pretty basic stats. But the truth of it

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Speaker 2: is that we don't do maths very well and we're

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Speaker 2: really bad with probabilities, and as a result, when we

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Speaker 2: look at these numbers, they can often not make much sense.

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Speaker 2: The other thing is it's kind of a provocative and

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Speaker 2: confronting thing to hear. Now again, I want to emphasize

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Speaker 2: there are people who are not in happy marriages that

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Speaker 2: can be happy. There are people who are not married

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Speaker 2: that are wonderfully happy, and I know plenty of married

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Speaker 2: people who are kind of miserable.

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Speaker 1: As well, people who've got a lots money.

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Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So this is not just about the one

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Speaker 2: fact that what it's looking at, quite simply, very simply

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Speaker 2: is if you're in a good marriage, if you're in

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Speaker 2: a very happy marriage, you're much more likely to be

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Speaker 2: a happy person. So it's not about shaming anyone, and

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Speaker 2: it's not about judging anyone. It's not about pointing fingers

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Speaker 2: and that sort of thing. These stats just point in

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Speaker 2: that direction. Here's another stat for you while we're on it.

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Speaker 2: Children who are raised in homes where parents are married

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Speaker 2: are much more likely to go to university. They're much

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Speaker 2: more likely to stay off drugs, they're much more likely

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Speaker 2: to be financially stable, they're more likely to generally stay

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Speaker 2: out of trouble. Intact families just an enormous increase in

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Speaker 2: the positive outcomes versus other families. Now, of course, there

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Speaker 2: are plenty of kids that come from alternative and diverse

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Speaker 2: families that have wonderful outcomes. It's just that you get

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Speaker 2: more positive outcomes with intact families where a couple are

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Speaker 2: happily married. One more stat. This is a really interesting one.

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Speaker 2: People who are married tend to enjoy much greater financial

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Speaker 2: benefits than those who are not, even if you're living

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Speaker 2: in a live in de facto relationship.

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Speaker 1: So I find this interesting because as parents with dependent children,

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Speaker 1: it feels like the financial frame is intense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. So a two thousand and seven survey

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Speaker 2: of consumer finance looked at the median net worth of

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Speaker 2: households with children by family structure. And what they found

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Speaker 2: was that the people who were doing the very best

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Speaker 2: were married and intact median net worth two hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty eight thousand, two hundred dollars. Now, this start is

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Speaker 2: fifteen years old, but we see continued evidence of this.

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Speaker 2: Married in a step family, that two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 2: eight drops down to ninety six thousand, divorced, thirty two thousand,

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Speaker 2: cohabiting eighty nine hundred. I mean, the number just drops

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Speaker 2: precipitously from that two hundred and twenty eight thousand. Again,

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Speaker 2: this is net worth, and we're going back fifteen years.

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Speaker 2: But what research does show is that men men who

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Speaker 2: are married earn twenty seven percent more than when they're unmarried.

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Speaker 2: Networth of both individuals is higher, they accumulate more assets,

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Speaker 2: they retire wealthier than their unmarried peers. It's the elephant

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Speaker 2: in the room. No one wants to talk about it,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sensitive to the fact that it's a tricky topic,

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Speaker 2: but the data is really really clear. When we look

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Speaker 2: at the very biggest research projects across time, they conclusively

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Speaker 2: conclusively point to marriage as being fundamental to positive outcomes,

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Speaker 2: well being, a life well lived.

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Speaker 1: So today we're going to talk about five mistakes we

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Speaker 1: want to avoid within our relationships so that we can

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Speaker 1: have very happy marriages.

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Speaker 2: So the first one is the me first mindset. Me

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Speaker 2: first mindset is pretty much talking about being selfish. It's

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Speaker 2: basically saying I'm not considering you. It's kryptonite to a marriage.

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Speaker 2: So I'll use a stereotypical example, a husband who feels

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Speaker 2: like he's entitled to a clean house and a dinner

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Speaker 2: on the table every night, and intimacy on as needs basis.

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Speaker 1: Think it could be even more simpler than that, though,

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Speaker 1: a husband who goes to work and his wife stays

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Speaker 1: at home and looks after a brand new baby, but

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Speaker 1: just expects that his job is outside of the house

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Speaker 1: and her job's inside the house.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, or even worse, a husband who goes to work

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Speaker 2: and a wife who goes to work, but he still

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Speaker 2: thinks that she's going to carry the line's share of

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Speaker 2: the labor in terms of keeping the house maintained and

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing, and.

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Speaker 1: The mental load.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's just this Essentially, it's a selfishness, like

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Speaker 2: I'll look after me and you look after everything else.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's endlessly pursuing a goal expense of the relationship

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Speaker 2: whatever it is. Regardless of the scenario, selfishness subsumes any

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Speaker 2: goodwill and it raises resentment and crushes the companionship. There's

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Speaker 2: another example of me first mindsets as well, and that

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Speaker 2: is when somebody tries to mold their husband or wife

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Speaker 2: into their perfect version of who they want them to

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Speaker 2: be or who they think they would be as well.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm an outgoing person. If I'm constantly trying to

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Speaker 2: get you to be outgoing and you're not an outgoing person,

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to mold you into my perfect version of

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Speaker 2: me because I think I'm awesome and I think that's

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Speaker 2: life should be. But it's not going to work because

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Speaker 2: I'm failing to understand your hopes and dreams and goals

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Speaker 2: not just for life, but maybe just for the next

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Speaker 2: five minutes while we're introducing ourselves to these people. And

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Speaker 2: if we can't calibrate appropriately, that selfishness causes a relationship

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Speaker 2: to come undone.

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Speaker 1: That's why we just do so well together. We're so different.

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Speaker 1: But I actually think while we haven't tried to change

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Speaker 1: each other, we've inadvertently taken on some of each other's traits.

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Speaker 1: And I used to be really shy. I didn't used

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Speaker 1: to kind of get out there in.

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Speaker 2: The early days. I was selfish and just thought that

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Speaker 2: you needed to be like me. Well, but I love

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Speaker 2: your differences to me Now I just cherish them and

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Speaker 2: celebrate them now.

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Speaker 1: But you bounce off the walls all the time, and

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Speaker 1: so my nice quiet has kind of calmed you down

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Speaker 1: a little bit over time.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe just a bit, just a bit. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: don't know if that's your it's just me getting older

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Speaker 2: and feeling more tired. But either way, let's look at

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Speaker 2: number two.

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Speaker 1: Number two is the maybe I do mindset.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this one is basically about commitment. People who question

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Speaker 2: commitment create conditions that are going to develop into a

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Speaker 2: lack of trust. If I don't feel like you're fully committed,

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Speaker 2: If I don't feel like you're fully committed, then I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to invest as much. And this is a

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Speaker 2: really provocative thing to say. I recognize this, but it's

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Speaker 2: based on solid evidence from one researcher in particular. His

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Speaker 2: name is Scott Stanley. He's done some work with Glena Roodes,

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Speaker 2: Howard Markman. These guys have been looking at this thing

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Speaker 2: called the cohabitation effect since the nineteen eighties, and what

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Speaker 2: their research shows is that when people slide into a

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Speaker 2: relationship rather than decide to get into a relationship, commitment

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Speaker 2: levels are lower, which means that investment levels are lower,

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Speaker 2: which means that trust levels are lower, and the corollary,

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Speaker 2: reduce commitment, reduce trust, poorer relationship quality. This is the

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Speaker 2: maybe I do mindset, and it seems to backfire in

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Speaker 2: terms of having a healthy relationship.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago, we shared our story on

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Speaker 1: Valentine's Day how we met and the things that made

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Speaker 1: up our relationship, and you shared a story about our

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Speaker 1: early days in that first year. We had an altercation

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Speaker 1: at some point and I kind of looked at you

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Speaker 1: and said, well, if you feel like that, maybe we

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Speaker 1: should just get divorced and you know, save each other

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Speaker 1: a whole heap of trouble. And at that point you

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Speaker 1: acknowledged that that was a conversation that we would never

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Speaker 1: have again. That divorce wasn't kind of not a word.

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Speaker 2: We'll say, and it's not an option in this relationship

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Speaker 2: because we do treat each other well and we can

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Speaker 2: just figure this stuff out.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that changed something in both of

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Speaker 1: us as we recognize that we were in this for

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Speaker 1: good and bad, that they were going to be challenging times,

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Speaker 1: but we were completely committed to one another and to

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Speaker 1: the relationship that we were creating.

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Speaker 2: It makes such a difference when we have a strong

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Speaker 2: commitment rather than maybe I do mindset, So number one,

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Speaker 2: the me first mindset guaranteed undermine and harm your marriage.

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Speaker 2: Number two that maybe I do mindset. The third thing

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Speaker 2: number three expecting a soulmate marriage. No such thing as

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Speaker 2: a soulmate. Got to get over the idea that there's

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Speaker 2: a soulmate. If you think that a relationship is about

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Speaker 2: intense emotion and romantic connection, it's almost certain that you're

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Speaker 2: going to be crushed at some point when the emotion

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Speaker 2: subsides and the romantic connection dims. The best research that

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Speaker 2: I found in this show is that if you're expecting

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Speaker 2: a soilimate marriage, you should be prepared for a new

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Speaker 2: relationship sometime in the future because soilme mates simply don't exist.

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Speaker 2: It's fine to have a whole lot of romance and

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Speaker 2: togetherness happening, but relationships are also about children and commitment

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Speaker 2: and financial stuff and stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right, stuff, And you.

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Speaker 2: Usually find that your silmate isn't quite the person that

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Speaker 2: you thought that they were. When the rubber hits the road,

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Speaker 2: when randomness and volatility start to hit you.

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Speaker 1: Having been through twenty five years.

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Speaker 2: Together, hey, excuse me, excuse me? Twenty five years? Can

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Speaker 2: I just mention this? We have approximately thirteen days until

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Speaker 2: it's twenty six twenty six.

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Speaker 1: Years, I know, but we're still at twenty five. Okay, fine.

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Speaker 1: We have experienced is that beautiful ebb and flow of

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Speaker 1: life together. And sometimes things are cruising and we feel

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Speaker 1: like we're flying on cloud nine, and other times we

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Speaker 1: feel like we're in the depths of I don't know,

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Speaker 1: some swamp in the middle of nowhere. It gets really

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Speaker 1: really hard. But having that absolute knowledge that yours committed

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Speaker 1: to the relationship as I am, means that we can

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Speaker 1: work through that and recognize and know that and we're

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Speaker 1: not going to stay down in that swamp forever. That

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Speaker 1: there's going to be another mountain peak and we're going

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Speaker 1: to enjoy life again together.

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Speaker 2: Number four failure to connect. If you want to harm

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Speaker 2: your marriage, just stop connecting. Connection means seeing, hearing, valuing technology, interfares, priorities, compete.

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Speaker 2: Life gets really busy babies, you get exhausted. Intimate quality declines.

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Speaker 2: Not for everyone, but for many people. The amount of

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Speaker 2: effort you put in reduces because you've kind of put

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Speaker 2: effort into so many other places. Date night, date night disappears,

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Speaker 2: and all of our best intentioned efforts that fail because

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Speaker 2: of just running house, running a life gets in the way.

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Speaker 2: Failure to connect is a guaranteed way to harm your marriage.

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Speaker 2: Got to find ways, got to find times, got to

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Speaker 2: find the capacity to prioritize and see here and value

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Speaker 2: one another.

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Speaker 1: I think the magic word here is intention.

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Speaker 2: I'd go further. It's not just about having the intention,

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Speaker 2: it's actually putting into action. I intend to connect with you,

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Speaker 2: but I get busy. Intention isn't quite far enough. There's

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Speaker 2: that old saying that the road to hell is paved

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Speaker 2: with good intentions. You can intend to do this and

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Speaker 2: intend to do that. I think it actually requires action.

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Speaker 2: It requires connection and commitment, and that's what makes the

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Speaker 2: marriage work. If you want to harm your marriage, just

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Speaker 2: focus on intention rather than action.

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Speaker 1: Well, Number five is being around others who don't value marriage.

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Speaker 2: You want to hear some crazy stats. This from a

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Speaker 2: researcher named roseen Quist and colleagues who said this. In

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Speaker 2: one of their studies, they found that the likelihood of

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Speaker 2: divorce increased by seventy five percent end for individuals with

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Speaker 2: a divorce friend. Let me say that again, if your

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Speaker 2: friends are divorced, your chances of divorce go up by

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Speaker 2: seventy five percent. Some other researchers McPherson and colleagues found

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Speaker 2: that this effect extends to friends of friends. So if

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Speaker 2: you are one degree of separation removed from the divorce

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Speaker 2: se you're still at a thirty three percent higher chance

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Speaker 2: of divorce. So there's this ripple effect. There's a divorce contagion,

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Speaker 2: you might even call it divorce ideation, where within social

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Speaker 2: circles there's going to be some influence on attitudes and behaviors.

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Speaker 2: Well beyond just the people involved in the divorce, friends

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Speaker 2: and even friends of friends are at increased risk of divorce.

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Speaker 1: I remember, just after I finished high school, I caught

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Speaker 1: up with one of my high school teachers. I absolutely

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Speaker 1: idolized this woman. She was amazing, and she was so

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Speaker 1: instrumental in me just getting through year twelve but loving

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Speaker 1: my class with her. And you and I were engaged

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Speaker 1: by that stage, but I I was going through this

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Speaker 1: a little bit of an epiphany in my own life,

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Speaker 1: and I had never had someone believe in me the

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Speaker 1: way you did. I started dreaming about who I could

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Speaker 1: be and what I could achieve in my life based

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Speaker 1: on the conversations you and I had had, and the

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Speaker 1: struggle I was having was if I wanted to achieve

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Speaker 1: those things, I couldn't see how I could achieve them

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Speaker 1: and have a family. They were not congruent where I

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Speaker 1: wanted to go or where I thought I wanted to go,

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Speaker 1: and where I had committed to go. We caught up

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Speaker 1: one afternoon for afternoon tea and I was sharing just

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Speaker 1: how excited I was about getting married and all of

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Speaker 1: the things that associated with that, And as the conversation continued,

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Speaker 1: I found myself sharing with her this newfound confidence that

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Speaker 1: I had. She was my teacher, so she knew the

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Speaker 1: person I was previous, and so she could see this

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Speaker 1: growth in me that had occurred. In a sense because

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Speaker 1: of my relationship with you. You had provided me with

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Speaker 1: a belief in me that I had never experienced before,

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Speaker 1: and so the confidence that I had in what I

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Speaker 1: could do with my life like just blew out of

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Speaker 1: the water. And so as I was sharing all of

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Speaker 1: these dreams and goals and things that I, you know,

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Speaker 1: aspirations that I was thinking about. She looked at me

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Speaker 1: and she said, Kylie, why would you ever want to

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Speaker 1: get married? She said, look at you. You've got your

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Speaker 1: whole world ahead of you. You could be any one

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Speaker 1: of those things. Why would you trap yourself in a

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Speaker 1: relationship and minimize your capacity? And I just remember walking

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Speaker 1: away from that and feeling so deeply saddened by the

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Speaker 1: conversation I had. It actually confirmed to me that while

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Speaker 1: all of those other places would have given me life

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Speaker 1: experience that I will never experience, I would never have

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Speaker 1: experienced the joy and the connection and the love and

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Speaker 1: security that I've experienced in the life that I have

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Speaker 1: created with you.

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Speaker 2: Marriage matters. It may not be a popular thing to

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Speaker 2: say the research points in that direction, and certainly our

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Speaker 2: experience does, but it's about having a good marriage as well.

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Speaker 2: It's about working on it, being committed, and figuring out

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Speaker 2: how you can avoid those mistakes that harm marriage the most.

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Speaker 2: If you had to cut through the noise. It's not

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Speaker 2: just about happily ever after fantasies. It's about real world

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Speaker 2: benefits and the data points to financial security, better outcomes

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Speaker 2: for kids. Look, it's not for everyone. I'm actually going

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Speaker 2: to say that marriage is not for everyone, and there

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Speaker 2: are good reasons for some people to not be married.

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Speaker 2: But marriage isn't just about a piece of paper. It's

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Speaker 2: a foundation for a life of meaning and joy and

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Speaker 2: purpose and growth. So I think we need to champion marriage,

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Speaker 2: especially as marriage starts to decline. We've got evidence that

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Speaker 2: it's doing that. We need to celebrate its merits and

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Speaker 2: support those who choose a marriage path. It's time to

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Speaker 2: prioritize the gold stand and read the rewards. The Happy

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Speaker 2: Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland for Bridge Media.

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Speaker 2: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more information about

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Speaker 2: how you can make your family happier and your marriage stronger,

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Speaker 2: visit happy families dot com dot als