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Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the twenty first of January.

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Speaker 1: I'm Sam, I'm Emma.

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Speaker 2: In a dramatic turn of events, TikTok is back online

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Speaker 2: in the US after being down for just twelve hours.

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Speaker 2: The restoration comes after President Trump, who was officially inaugurated

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Speaker 2: as the forty seventh president of the United States overnight,

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Speaker 2: announced he would sign an executive order to delay the

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Speaker 2: ban as he takes office this week. On today's podcast,

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Speaker 2: Emma and I are going to break down what happened

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Speaker 2: during this chaotic weekend for TikTok and what it means

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Speaker 2: for the app's future in America.

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Speaker 1: Sam, we are waking up this morning to the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the Trump administration. Trump two point oh, trump two

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Speaker 1: point zero here the inauguration at about four am for

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Speaker 1: most of us, and it comes after this roller coaster

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Speaker 1: TikTok saga for Americans, for users of the social media platform.

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Speaker 1: Can you start by explaining why TikTok was banned in

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Speaker 1: the US in the very first place.

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Speaker 2: Well, the first thing I want to acknowledge is just

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Speaker 2: how strange it is that, where there are so many

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Speaker 2: issues that Americans voted on and talked about over the

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Speaker 2: last many years, it's been weird that we have been

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Speaker 2: fully focused almost on TikTok as the main legislative point

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Speaker 2: in the lead up to this inauguration. But here we are.

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Speaker 2: So this goes back about nine months when the US

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Speaker 2: Congress passed legislation with bipartisan support to ban TikTok, and

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Speaker 2: bipiloisan support means both Republicans and Democrats were in favor

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Speaker 2: of this new rule. And the core reason for the

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Speaker 2: ban was because of concerns around national security, specifically whether

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Speaker 2: TikTok's parent company, called Byteedance might share user data with

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Speaker 2: the Chinese government. Now, to avoid the ban, by Dance

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Speaker 2: needed to sell its US component of its business to

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Speaker 2: a non Chinese entity. It didn't do that. TikTok tried

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Speaker 2: to appeal the ban through the highest office in the country,

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Speaker 2: that's the Supreme Court. But the Supreme Court ruled last

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Speaker 2: week that the ban could be upheld, and so TikTok

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Speaker 2: went dark on Sunday ahead of the January nineteen deadline.

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Speaker 2: Not even after the deadline had passed they got ahead

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Speaker 2: of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were a variety of outcomes that we were

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Speaker 1: bracing for depending on that Supreme Court ruling. But then

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Speaker 1: Trump intervened, He stepped in at the eleventh hour. What

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Speaker 1: exactly happened? What did he say?

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Speaker 2: So the app is dark and everyone's getting a notification

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Speaker 2: saying I'm sorry, you can't get onto TikTok. We hope

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Speaker 2: to work with President Trump on a solution here. And

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Speaker 2: that was because Trump announced he would issue an executive

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Speaker 2: order on Monday, so his first day as president to

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Speaker 2: extend the timeline for TikTok to find a buyer quickly

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Speaker 2: covering off the executive order. So that's a direction issued

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Speaker 2: by the president that has the force of law, but

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Speaker 2: doesn't need to be passed by an Act of Congress.

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Speaker 2: All US presidents in history have issued executive orders on

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Speaker 2: a variety of issues. In Trump's first term, he passed

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Speaker 2: two hundred and twenty executive orders in four years. Wow. Well,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of a similar number ish to quite a

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Speaker 2: few other presidents. But what is different about how Trump

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Speaker 2: wants to do his executive orders this time around is

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Speaker 2: how quickly he wants to pass them. So he says

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Speaker 2: he's going to sign at least two hundred executive orders

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Speaker 2: on his first day as president.

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Speaker 1: So that would be close to the total number of

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Speaker 1: executive orders he signed in his entire term as president last.

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Speaker 2: Time, exactly. And the record since nineteen thirty two for

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Speaker 2: the number of executive orders signed on the first day

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Speaker 2: is Joe Biden. In twenty twenty one, he signed nine.

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Speaker 2: So taking executive orders from nine to two hundred as

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Speaker 2: a day one record is a pretty big jump. Now,

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Speaker 2: under the current law, the president is given the power

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Speaker 2: to extend the amount of time that TikTok have to

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Speaker 2: do this sale to a non Chinese entity by another

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Speaker 2: ninety days, but he can only do that once, and

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Speaker 2: it has to be done if there's evidence that the

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Speaker 2: company is making significant progress in moving its ownership to

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Speaker 2: another company and they just need a bit more time

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Speaker 2: to iron out the deal.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So just to recap, we've had a TikTok ban looming.

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Speaker 1: It comes into place for twelve hours, and then Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump intervenes and gives Byteedance the parent company of TikTok

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Speaker 1: and extra ninety days to sell its US operations to

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Speaker 1: a US company. So it's like a ninety day lifeline.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? And I think what is really unprecedented about this

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Speaker 2: is that there actually isn't much evidence that Byte Dance

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Speaker 2: are on the verge of a negotiation with a US entity.

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Speaker 2: This is more about Trump trying to figure out a

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Speaker 2: longer term solution here. But you have to remember this

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Speaker 2: is now an a of law, and so the interesting

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Speaker 2: battle that's emerging is can a president via an executive

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Speaker 2: order almost discredit a law that has already passed Congress

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Speaker 2: bipartisan support and been tested by the Supreme Court and

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Speaker 2: tell parties involved that it's not going to be enforced.

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Speaker 2: And this is really now a lot more than just

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Speaker 2: about TikTok. This is about what the limits are to

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Speaker 2: a president's.

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Speaker 1: Powers and what an executive order can mean under different presidents,

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Speaker 1: or who can take them to what place, and what

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Speaker 1: boundaries are in place to restrict those actions. It's a

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Speaker 1: pretty big moment. Or I suppose what Trump is potentially

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Speaker 1: doing with the power of the executive order is rather unprecedented.

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Speaker 2: On day one.

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Speaker 1: So how has TikTok responded to all of this? I imagine

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Speaker 1: they are welcoming that extension, but have they indicated any

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Speaker 1: change in their position.

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Speaker 2: Well, they turned the app back on, which I think

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Speaker 2: is the really change that we need to take note of.

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Speaker 2: They said in a statement that they were really thankful

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Speaker 2: for President Trump for providing what they described as clarity

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Speaker 2: and assurance to their service providers. They're framing this as

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Speaker 2: a victory for free speech, calling it a strong stand

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Speaker 2: for the First Amendment and against arbitrary censorship.

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Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to talk about the implications for users,

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Speaker 1: for the people who are on the platform on TikTok.

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes the kind of more traditional media, legacy

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Speaker 1: media conversation around this topic can be maybe a little

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Speaker 1: bit condescending or belittling of an app that is primarily

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Speaker 1: used by young people, but it's arguably an important platform

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people. What are the implications for

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Speaker 1: those TikTok users in the US, For TikTok creators in.

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Speaker 2: America, Well, there's one hundred and seventy million Americans who

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Speaker 2: have TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I mean, yeah, that's a really big number.

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Speaker 2: One it's huge, and TikTok estimated based on their data

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Speaker 2: that if there was a ban within the first month,

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Speaker 2: a ban, businesses using the app so they're using it

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Speaker 2: on not just paid channels like paying for advertising to

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Speaker 2: pop up for users, but also organic growth and you know,

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Speaker 2: a bit of PR and telling people about their products.

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Speaker 2: They estimated that those businesses would lose about a billion

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Speaker 2: US dollars in revenue in just the first month, and

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Speaker 2: that content creators influencers that you were mentioning before could

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Speaker 2: miss out on three hundred million dollars in revenue.

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Speaker 1: It's really hard to put a number on the business

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Speaker 1: of TikTok. I guess I mean, we have this number

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Speaker 1: and it's a huge figure. But when you think about

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Speaker 1: how we engage with social media from a business perspective,

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Speaker 1: the way that you know, we come across brands or

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Speaker 1: product reviews as you know, such a huge world of

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Speaker 1: what the economy of social media looks like.

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Speaker 2: There are entire companies built on TikTok adjacent services. You know.

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Speaker 2: They might be brands that just make vertical video ads

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Speaker 2: for businesses, they might be you know, companies who advise

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Speaker 2: on TikTok strategy. There's entire companies, not just TikTok itself.

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Speaker 2: But you know, lots and lots of people impacted by this.

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Speaker 2: But aside from the economic argument, we have to acknowledge

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Speaker 2: the cultural argument and the social argument here. It's an

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Speaker 2: enormous part of the social media landscape, and I think

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Speaker 2: Trump knows that, and he certainly knows that saving an

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Speaker 2: app that tens of millions of people use every day,

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Speaker 2: especially young people, is going to increase his popularity with

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Speaker 2: the young people that use it. He said. One line

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Speaker 2: in his statement on truth Social he said, Americans deserve

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Speaker 2: to see our exciting inauguration on Monday, as well as

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Speaker 2: other events and conversations on TikTok. So I think there's

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Speaker 2: also a little bit of, you know, the Trump ego

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Speaker 2: coming through there and wanting to see the virility of

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Speaker 2: an inauguration on the app which he now has.

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Speaker 1: Wow. So can this executive order solve the TikTok problem

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Speaker 1: long term? We know that there's a ninety day extension

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Speaker 1: by Dance. Essentially, have you know, the next two and

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Speaker 1: a half months to find a US buyer for the

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Speaker 1: US operations. From what you've told us today, Sam, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily seem as though they have been seriously looking

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Speaker 1: in to cooperating with those demands from that previous legal action.

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Speaker 1: So what is going to solve this problem in the

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Speaker 1: long term.

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Speaker 2: Let me keep it real simple. There's kind of two

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Speaker 2: ways only that this can be solved long term. The

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Speaker 2: first option is that TikTok gets sold to a US

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Speaker 2: entity or a non Chinese entity. The second option is

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Speaker 2: that Congress reverses the law, so the President doesn't have

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Speaker 2: the power to just strike out the law of Congress,

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Speaker 2: especially a law that has bipartisan support, especially a law

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Speaker 2: that's already been tested by the Supreme Court. So for

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Speaker 2: a permanent solution. Besides that, there's kind of not really

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Speaker 2: anything else that can be done after that ninety day time.

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Speaker 2: And that's where I think things get really murky.

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Speaker 1: What has the response been within Trump's own Republican Party?

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, there was partisan support for this band,

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Speaker 1: so is there pushback from within his party.

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Speaker 2: It's been really interesting. I mean, Trump himself was a

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Speaker 2: big advocate of this law coming into effect, you know,

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Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, along with most of the

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Speaker 2: Republican Party, and this was a really firm policy that

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Speaker 2: they held. There was a couple of statements Republican Senators

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Speaker 2: Tom Cotton and Pete Ricketts said there's no legal basis

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Speaker 2: to extend the band's deadline beyond that ninety day period,

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Speaker 2: and that is significant because they're from Trump's own party.

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Speaker 1: But Trump has proposed a solution. He put that statement

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Speaker 1: out on truth Social What is President Trump's.

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Speaker 2: Idea, Well, he would like the United States to have

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Speaker 2: a fifty percent ownership position in a joint venture. Those

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Speaker 2: are his words. We're not quite sure whether he was

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Speaker 2: referring to the US government and it becoming kind of

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Speaker 2: a half state owned entity or a US company, but

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Speaker 2: he did say without US approval, there is no TikTok.

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Speaker 2: With our approval, it's worth hundreds of billions of dollars,

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Speaker 2: maybe trillions.

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Speaker 1: So he's maybe appealing to byitedance there by suggesting if

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Speaker 1: they partnered with the US company or the US government unclear,

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Speaker 1: that that would improve the value of their business. That

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Speaker 1: there's an economic advantage to making a deal like that.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, And we're watching in real time the relationship between

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Speaker 2: the Trump campaign and TikTok get closer and closer. I mean,

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Speaker 2: TikTok CEO was at the inauguration this morning. We've got

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Speaker 2: lots of increased usage by the Trump team on the app.

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Speaker 2: So it's going to be really interesting to see if

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Speaker 2: in fact they turn out to work together.

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Speaker 1: One thing that's been interesting to watch is how other

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Speaker 1: tech companies have been reacting to this unfolding situation, particularly

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Speaker 1: the big app stores like Apple and Google. Ultimately, they

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Speaker 1: will have a legal obligation in terms of hosting TikTok

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Speaker 1: on their app stores.

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Speaker 2: Right I mean, the law is in effect right now.

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Speaker 2: It's been sign sealed, delivered. So even though the app

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Speaker 2: is back up and running, it can't be downloaded on

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Speaker 2: the Google and Apple app stores yet because they're not

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Speaker 2: putting it back there until they know for sure they're

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Speaker 2: out of the woods legally.

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Speaker 1: So if you are in the US right now and

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Speaker 1: you didn't have TikTok installed on your device, you couldn't

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Speaker 1: download it right now exactly.

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Speaker 2: The law itself is still valid and enforceable by Dance

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Speaker 2: now has this extra period to try and work out

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Speaker 2: how to fix it long term, but right now it's

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Speaker 2: illegal for an app store to have TikTok, and in

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Speaker 2: practice it can have quite severe consequences for these types

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Speaker 2: of service providers. We're talking five thousand US dollars for

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Speaker 2: each user who uses their service to access TikTok, So

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Speaker 2: we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars potentially in fines.

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Speaker 2: The law interestingly says that you can be fined as

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Speaker 2: a company up to five years after the breach. So

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Speaker 2: let's say that you have a really TikTok sympathetic Trump

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Speaker 2: for the next four years, but then a new president

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Speaker 2: in year five. That new president could order the law

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Speaker 2: to be enforced for actions that Apple and Google take

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Speaker 2: way back in early twenty twenty five. So it's pretty complicated.

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Speaker 2: But I think the other question that companies are trying

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Speaker 2: to ask right now is if President Trump says something

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Speaker 2: on truth social like companies are going to be protected

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Speaker 2: if they put TikTok back. Can they rely on a

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Speaker 2: comment from the president if they're brought to court one day,

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Speaker 2: and can they rely on the kind of sentiment that

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Speaker 2: he's offering them to protect them from hundreds of millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars of fines.

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Speaker 1: It's fascinating and I can't think of a story like

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Speaker 1: it previously when you have such a prominent and powerful

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Speaker 1: leader of you know, we hear about the US president

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Speaker 1: being referred to as the leader of the free world.

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Speaker 1: If they're saying one thing but their Congress is doing

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Speaker 1: another what does that mean for everyone in the middle,

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Speaker 1: from users to tech companies.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing to remember about companies like Apple

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Speaker 2: and Google who are kind of TikTok adjacent is that

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Speaker 2: they've got a lot of business on them go all

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Speaker 2: at once. And their relationships to not only the President,

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Speaker 2: but to all of the senators and members of Congress,

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Speaker 2: people who are making the law and deciding what is

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Speaker 2: regulated is really important. And those two senators from the

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Speaker 2: Republican Party I mentioned before in that statement, Tom Cotton

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Speaker 2: and Pete Rickets, they said that they thanked those companies

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Speaker 2: for following the rule of law, and they warned that

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Speaker 2: despite an executive order, the law risks ruinous bankruptcy for

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Speaker 2: any company who violates.

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Speaker 1: It, ruin US bankruptcy. Some pretty strong.

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Speaker 2: Terms there, the name of also very popular rap group.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure somewhere.

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Speaker 1: EP dropping this right, A ruinous bankruptcy. Okay. So in

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Speaker 1: terms of what comes next, Sam, you've laid out that

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Speaker 1: there are these options of you know, another company comes

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Speaker 1: in and buys those American operations from ByteDance within the

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Speaker 1: ninety days, or TikTok does not have an interest in

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Speaker 1: engaging in those conversations. So the app goes dark after

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Speaker 1: ninety days. But if we're thinking about potential buyers, is

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Speaker 1: there anyone that's put their hand.

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Speaker 2: Up, Well, there's a couple of big names. Nobody has

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Speaker 2: really emerged as a front running candidate here. We've heard

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Speaker 2: that Elon Musk might be interested, Sharkhank Judge, Kevin O'Leary,

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Speaker 2: YouTuber mister Beast, and a few other high profile business figures.

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Speaker 2: There was one high profile billionaire who offered twenty billion

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Speaker 2: dollars in cash to buy Dance over the weekend, just straight,

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Speaker 2: I'll take it off your hands for this much by

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Speaker 2: Dance rejected that offer. But yes, there's now this really

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Speaker 2: firm deadline of the ninety days. It's a Trump presidency,

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Speaker 2: so we're not quite sure what's going to happen after

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Speaker 2: that ninety days. We don't know what President Trump's executive

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Speaker 2: powers look like after that ninety day period has expired.

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Speaker 2: So this will take longer than watching a TikTok video

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Speaker 2: to figure out. And it's become a much more technical

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Speaker 2: legal argument than I think any of us were expecting.

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Speaker 2: But here we are welcome to Trump two point zero.

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Speaker 1: And interesting to see the regulation of social media in

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Speaker 1: the modern climate with the way that young people engage

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Speaker 1: with it now being spoken about in the US. We've

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Speaker 1: course had our own struggles in Australia last year the

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Speaker 1: uncertainty of news on meta platforms, and we will be

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Speaker 1: continuing to watch closely to see what happens if Trump

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Speaker 1: follows through with the executive order in the next few days,

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Speaker 1: what that means for major platforms, and what it means

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Speaker 1: above all else for users. Sam, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for taking us through that. That was really interesting. Thanks Sam,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for joining us for today's episode. If

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Speaker 1: you learn something from this one, please feel free to

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Speaker 1: pass it on to a friend. Make sure you are

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Speaker 1: following us wherever you listen or subscribed over on YouTube.

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Speaker 1: If you're watching us over there. We will be back

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Speaker 1: later on today with your evening headlines, but until then,

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Speaker 1: have a great day.

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Speaker 2: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 2: bunge Lung Chalcotin woman from Gadigl Country. The Daily oz

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Speaker 2: acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of

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Speaker 2: the Gatighl people and pays respect to all.

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Speaker 1: Original and torrest Rate island and nations.

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Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 2: both past and present,