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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: I love Wednesdays because I get to talk to really

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Speaker 3: interesting people. Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson, the founder

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Speaker 3: of Happy Families dot com dot IU and the co

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Speaker 3: host of Chellen nine's Parental Guidance Season two coming soon.

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Speaker 3: Amantha Imber has been on the Happy Families Podcast before

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Speaker 3: a special guest. Amantha has a podcast that I love

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Speaker 3: listening to productivity geeks, people who have big goals, anyone

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Speaker 3: who wants to achieve anything in life. If you haven't

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Speaker 3: checked out Amantha Imber's podcast, How I Work, you're.

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Speaker 1: Really missing out.

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Speaker 3: Can I send you there once you've finished listening to

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Speaker 3: this interview, once you've heard Amantha. And by the way,

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Speaker 3: Amantha like Samantha but without the S, and Imba like

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Speaker 3: Timber without the tea. Amantha Imber How I Work. That's

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Speaker 3: the name of the podcast, and like I said, it's

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Speaker 3: an absolute favorite of mine. But Amantha has written a

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Speaker 3: brand new book called time Wise, and she's joining me

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Speaker 3: on the Happy Families podcast so that we can talk

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Speaker 3: about the book, the podcast, and who knows what else.

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Speaker 3: Amantha Thanks so much for being here, Thanks for having

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Speaker 3: me justin Aman. Let's just I've straight into the conversation

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Speaker 3: about your book. We can talk about the podcast and

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Speaker 3: things later. But your book is called time Wise. This

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Speaker 3: is the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 3: wants answers. Now, so many parents that I talk to

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Speaker 3: as saying time Wise, I need that, I don't have time.

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Speaker 3: My kids are draining me. I've got work, I've got

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Speaker 3: the house to maintain. There's so much going on. Can

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Speaker 3: we just talk about time Wise generally? Why did you

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Speaker 3: write that? And then I want to ask you some

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Speaker 3: specific questions from a parenting point of view.

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Speaker 2: Well, I wrote the book because of my podcast How

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Speaker 2: I Work. So I've spent the last four years interviewing

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Speaker 2: some of the world's most successful people, from CEOs to entrepreneurs,

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Speaker 2: to musicians to celebrity chefs like you name it. I've

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Speaker 2: probably interviewed someone in that genre, and every episode I'll

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Speaker 2: get these absolute gems of how we can use our

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Speaker 2: time better, how we can structure our days better, how

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Speaker 2: we can get off digital devices and the things that

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Speaker 2: are impact our time in not a great way. But

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Speaker 2: if I were to say, just go through the back

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Speaker 2: catalog of four years of interviews, like, no one has

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Speaker 2: time for that. So so at the same time, my

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Speaker 2: agent had connected me with Penguin, the publisher, and they

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Speaker 2: were looking for some new books for the year, and

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Speaker 2: I said, I've got this idea. I've always wanted to

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Speaker 2: turn how I work and get the absolute best tips

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Speaker 2: and put that in a book so that it's actually

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Speaker 2: time efficient to get the tips, let alone apply the tips.

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Speaker 2: So it's a book about the strategies that's the world's

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Speaker 2: most successful people used to use their time more wisely.

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Speaker 3: And when you say the world's most successful people, I

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Speaker 3: love this podcast. I mean you've talked to people like

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Speaker 3: Greg mckein who wrote Essentialism, Adam Grant, who is just

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Speaker 3: I mean, golly, Think Again would be one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite books of the last couple of years. I'm not

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Speaker 3: even going to try and list everyone else, but extraordinary thinkers,

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Speaker 3: amazing minds. Did you have a process for this, like,

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Speaker 3: as something came up that was amazing, did you think

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Speaker 3: that should go into a book that'll be chapter one,

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Speaker 3: that'll be chapter two. Did you have it sort of

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Speaker 3: all written or did you have to go back and

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Speaker 3: listen to four years worth a podcast yourself to put

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Speaker 3: it together.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, it was a bit of both. I mean

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Speaker 2: with every interview, I'd say that there's one or two

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Speaker 2: things that stick in my mind, and sometimes they're quirky things,

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Speaker 2: like as an example, I interviewed this guy called Kevin

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Speaker 2: Rose maybe three or four years ago when we were

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Speaker 2: attending the same TED conference over in Vancouver, and he

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Speaker 2: is a very successful venture capitalist over in Silicon Valley.

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Speaker 2: He was like an early investor in companies like Facebook

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Speaker 2: and Twitter and places like that. And he told me

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Speaker 2: about how he was trying to reduce his mobile phone

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Speaker 2: usage at that point in time, and specifically the number

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Speaker 2: of times he would pick up his phone every day. Now,

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Speaker 2: for the average person, this is several hundred times a day.

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Speaker 2: For Kevin, it was one hundred times a day, which

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Speaker 2: is actually not that much. But what Kevin did is like,

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Speaker 2: I want to reduce it further. So he did something

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Speaker 2: that I've never heard anyone do before, and he tied

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Speaker 2: a rubber band across his phone, like horizontally, so to

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Speaker 2: check his phone, like to swipe up and unlock it,

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Speaker 2: he would have to take the rubber band off his phone,

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Speaker 2: so basically making him a whole lot more mindful of

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Speaker 2: did he really need to check his phone or was

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Speaker 2: he just doing it out of habit. So through that

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Speaker 2: very simple rubber band technique, he reduced his mobile phone

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Speaker 2: pickups from one hundred per day to thirty per day.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So it's yeah, So strategies like that that just get

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Speaker 2: stuck in your head and I'm like, more people need

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Speaker 2: to know about this. It's so simple to use, yet

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Speaker 2: it's so impactful.

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Speaker 3: And as a parent, I'm thinking mobile phones become a

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Speaker 3: real impediment to my capacity to connect with my child.

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Speaker 3: So if I do that, I mean, I'm instantly giving

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Speaker 3: myself the opportunity to have a better relationship with my

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Speaker 3: child because I'm not caught up with the phone so much.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and also for your kids, particularly if you've I've

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Speaker 2: got teenagers or kids that do have their own phone,

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Speaker 2: Like it's such a novel strategy that. I mean, my

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Speaker 2: eight year old daughter doesn't have her. She's got a

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Speaker 2: very very dumb phone that she often loses, but that's

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Speaker 2: another story. But she certainly doesn't have anything resembling a smartphone.

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Speaker 2: But I kind of think, look when she's a few

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Speaker 2: years older and she has that getting her to put

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Speaker 2: a rubber band on her phone, she might kind of think, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's a bit quirky, I'll try that, So I kind

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Speaker 2: of I have hope that it can maybe be used

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Speaker 2: with kids as well.

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Speaker 3: I really I love that. I was just checking on

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Speaker 3: my phone as you were saying it. We're recording this

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Speaker 3: at three pm and I've picked up my phone fifty

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Speaker 3: three times today.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that's that's not.

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Speaker 2: Too bad, that's pretty good.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I still feel like I use it too much.

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Speaker 3: And I like the rubber band idea. It kind of

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Speaker 3: feels a little bit like James clear in Atomic Habits,

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Speaker 3: where he talks about how if you can make something

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Speaker 3: hard that increase the friction between your craving and the

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Speaker 3: actual behavior, and then you go to reduce the extent

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Speaker 3: which you're doing it. I love this concept, and I

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Speaker 3: love the way that you've brought that in with something

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Speaker 3: so practical.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it actually reminds me of something else, which kind

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Speaker 2: of comes from nudge theory, which is about if you

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Speaker 2: can think about changing your environment to almost unconsciously change

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Speaker 2: your behavior without you even trying. So there's a strategy

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Speaker 2: from Matt Mullen Weg in the book. So, Matt Mullenweg

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Speaker 2: is the co founder of WordPress and Automatic And if

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Speaker 2: you're not a geeky person, you probably won't know that

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Speaker 2: word Press powers about a third of the websites on

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Speaker 2: the Internet. So Matt's like a bit of a big deal. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: something Matt told me about when I had him on

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Speaker 2: the show is he will think about how he can

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Speaker 2: craft his environment to help build healthy habits. So, as

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Speaker 2: an example, if on Matt's bedside table the kindle is

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Speaker 2: sitting on top of the phone, he is more likely

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Speaker 2: to pick up his kindle and read, Whereas if the

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Speaker 2: phone is sitting on top of the kindle, he's more

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Speaker 2: likely to do some mindless scrolling. So he thinks about

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Speaker 2: how he can design his environment in a way that

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Speaker 2: just unconsciously nudges him into healthy habits. And again, it's

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Speaker 2: something that you can apply as a parent, but it's

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Speaker 2: also something that you can apply to how you design

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Speaker 2: your physical environment at home for your kids.

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Speaker 1: I love these tips that have come from the book time.

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Speaker 3: Wise, just from the point of view that what we're

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Speaker 3: doing is we're crafting our environment in such a way

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Speaker 3: that it becomes easier to default to something that's going

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Speaker 3: to be better for our relationships, whether it's mindless scrolling.

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Speaker 1: Or picking up the phone in the first place.

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Speaker 3: Amantha, when we were having a chat about this podcast

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Speaker 3: at earlier, you talked about a guilt free way of

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Speaker 3: saying no, something that you've talked about in the book.

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Speaker 1: A guilt free way of saying no to the kids.

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Speaker 3: This is tricky, or saying no to anyone or anything. Really,

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Speaker 3: this is tricky because we have this predisposition. Don't we

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Speaker 3: to say yes? To try to fit it all in,

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Speaker 3: to try to be all things to all people. What

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Speaker 3: was this idea and how does it work from it

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Speaker 3: not just an adult point of view, but from a

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Speaker 3: parenting point of view.

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Speaker 2: So I got this tip from Mia Friedman, which anyone

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Speaker 2: that's familiar with MoMA me Or and the Mama Women's

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Speaker 2: Business media Company, I think that is the full title

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Speaker 2: will be familiar with. So something that Maya told me, Like,

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Speaker 2: she's not surprisingly someone that gets a lot of requests

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Speaker 2: made on her time, and like many people, and certainly

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Speaker 2: like many women, she struggles with saying no. But she

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Speaker 2: started to change her language. So let's just say she

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Speaker 2: was asked to I don't know, speak it an event

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Speaker 2: on the weekend, let's say, or attend some red carpet

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Speaker 2: you know, movie premiere or something like that. She would

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Speaker 2: often start her no with I can't do that. I

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Speaker 2: can't do that because blah blah blah. And when you

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Speaker 2: say I can't do something, it sort of it feels like, oh,

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Speaker 2: well maybe you can. Maybe that's a little bit negotiable.

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Speaker 2: And sometimes the person on the other end would come

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Speaker 2: back and say, well, maybe if we did it this way,

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Speaker 2: could you do it then? Could you say yes then?

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Speaker 2: And so Mia started to realize if she changed her language,

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Speaker 2: she could get a better result. So instead of saying

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Speaker 2: I can't do this, she now has rules about what

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Speaker 2: she does and doesn't do, and so she will say

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Speaker 2: I don't do this. So, for example, Mia doesn't speak

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Speaker 2: at events on the weekend, so she will write back

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Speaker 2: if someone's asked her to speak at something or do

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Speaker 2: some work related thing on the weekend, she'll say, I

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Speaker 2: don't do work on the weekend. And she might say why,

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Speaker 2: you know, because I'm prioritizing my family on the weekend

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Speaker 2: or something like that. But you can't argue with don't

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Speaker 2: when someone says I don't do something. You can't go

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Speaker 2: back and say, well, could you no, because I don't

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Speaker 2: do that. So the difference between I can't versus I

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Speaker 2: don't made a really huge difference in just having a

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Speaker 2: guilt free way to say no.

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Speaker 3: You've asked politely, you've asked again, you've patiently waited, you've

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Speaker 3: even made a threat, but finally you lose it. Listen

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Speaker 3: to me, you shout. In the practical webinar the Screaming Spiral,

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Speaker 3: you'll learn the top reasons why your child isn't listening,

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Speaker 3: and you'll get pro tips and strategies to get them

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Speaker 3: to hear without yelling. Available on the Happy Family's web shop.

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Speaker 3: Now it's the Happy Families podcast. The podcast or the

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Speaker 3: type or parent who just wants answers. Now, I'm talking

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Speaker 3: with Amantha Imba. Amantha has written a book called time Wise,

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Speaker 3: and Amantha has a podcast called How I Work.

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Speaker 1: I love the concept.

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Speaker 3: Of the things that you don't do, So I'll tell

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Speaker 3: you what I don't do. I don't play with Pokemon.

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Speaker 3: Like I've got a child who is addicted to Pokemon.

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Speaker 3: I just I don't play Pokemon. And I know that

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Speaker 3: some people are going to say, oh, I thought you

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Speaker 3: were a parenting expert. I can't listen to you ever again.

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Speaker 3: But I don't play Pokemon. You know what else I

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Speaker 3: don't do. I don't watch I don't watch kids movies

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Speaker 3: like I'm because I don't really watch movies anyway, Amantha.

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Speaker 3: But I especially, I'm not going to sit down and

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Speaker 3: watch Barbie or Pokemon or How to Train Your Dragon

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Speaker 3: or any of that.

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Speaker 1: So I just I don't if I want to watch one.

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Speaker 3: So like, if Toy Story three is on, because Toy

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Speaker 3: Story three is guaranteed to make any ad on a

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Speaker 3: blubbering mess, I will sit down and watch that. But

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Speaker 3: I'm very, very very selective, And essentially I don't watch

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Speaker 3: Saturday morning cartoons.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't let the kids sleep in past a certain time,

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Speaker 3: and nor do I.

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Speaker 1: I love this idea.

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Speaker 3: Of I don't don't, don't, don't don't, because then I

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Speaker 3: get really clear on what I do as well. I

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Speaker 3: do have an active life, I do keep my screen off,

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Speaker 3: I do all of these other things, and it's so easy.

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Speaker 3: I love the mere Freedman thing as well. On that

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Speaker 3: because I don't work Sundays. Sundays is absolutely categorically reserved

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Speaker 3: for my family and for other things that are important

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Speaker 3: for us to do as a family, and that means

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Speaker 3: not working. Interestingly, some people have come back, well, what

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Speaker 3: would it take for you to do it? And it's

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Speaker 3: so easy to say, I think you misunderstand. And when

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Speaker 3: I say I don't work Sundays, it means I don't

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Speaker 3: work Sundays, that you can't get me to do it.

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Speaker 1: Because I don't do that, And so I love that.

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Speaker 3: I love that concept, and man that there are a

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Speaker 3: couple of other questions that I want to ask you

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Speaker 3: about though, because of what you've written in time wise,

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Speaker 3: because I know that there's a parenting angle.

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Speaker 1: Here, I would love for you to please.

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Speaker 3: Can you tell me how a tool designed for dieting

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Speaker 3: can actually help kids use their phones less?

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Speaker 2: Oh I can. I love this tip when I heard it.

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Speaker 2: I got this from Tim Kendall, and he was used

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Speaker 2: to be the president of Pinterest, So if you're into

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Speaker 2: designing things and keeping photographs, you probably use Pinterest. Before.

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Speaker 2: When Tim was at Pinterest, he was very conscious about

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Speaker 2: his mobile phone usage and that he was a bit

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Speaker 2: of an addict on his phone. He was previously very

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Speaker 2: senior at Facebook and so knew all about Wi phones

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Speaker 2: so addictive because he was one of the people that

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Speaker 2: was helping design one of the apps that keeps us

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Speaker 2: glued to our screens. So Tim discovered this thing called

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Speaker 2: a k safe, which was originally designed for people trying

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Speaker 2: to eat less healthy food less, often like chocolate. And

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Speaker 2: so what diets would do is they would get a

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Speaker 2: k safe, which is a box that you can lock

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Speaker 2: things in, and you would put say, block of caberry

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Speaker 2: chocolate that you know, whatever your kind of weakness is

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Speaker 2: into the box, and then you would set the timer

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Speaker 2: for however long you want, and basically when the time

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Speaker 2: is up, then the box will unlock itself. So in

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Speaker 2: the case of dieting, you might go, it's going to

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Speaker 2: take about an hour for this chocolate craving to pass,

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Speaker 2: so I'm just going to lock this block of chocolate

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Speaker 2: away for an hour. So Tim thought, maybe I could

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Speaker 2: use this for my mobile phone to curb my mobile

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Speaker 2: phone addiction. So he got one of these k Safe

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Speaker 2: boxes and he would put his phone in it from

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Speaker 2: about six o'clock at night till eight am the following

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Speaker 2: morning so that he could be really present with his

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Speaker 2: family in the evenings and then he'd do the same

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Speaker 2: thing on weekends, but during the day, so he'd lock

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Speaker 2: his phone away for a day. And he found that

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Speaker 2: it was what he describes as a brute force approach,

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Speaker 2: where you are not relying on willpower, just using brute

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Speaker 2: force to change your environment. And it got him off

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Speaker 2: his phone and it certainly helped him be way more

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Speaker 2: present with his family. So I highly recommend it, And

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Speaker 2: I mean, why stop it just our own phones? Why

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Speaker 2: not chuck all the kid's devices in there as well?

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Speaker 1: Potentially I can't imagine a mutiny at all. Do you

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Speaker 1: know what?

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Speaker 3: Though, this goes back to that whole conversation about changing

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Speaker 3: your environment. My read on the research around willpower is

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Speaker 3: that the less you have to use the willpower that is,

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Speaker 3: the more you create an environment that supports you doing

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Speaker 3: what you want to do without having to use willpower

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Speaker 3: to not do the things you don't want to do.

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Speaker 3: The people who do that have more willpower, not because

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Speaker 3: they actually need, not because they have more willpower because

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Speaker 3: they just don't have to use it at all.

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Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Did I say that the right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, they've got more in reserve. So absolutely,

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Speaker 2: the people who are generally most effective at what they do.

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Speaker 2: They've set up their environment in a way that doesn't

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Speaker 2: require will power to do the things that they do

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Speaker 2: want to do and to not do the things they

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Speaker 2: don't want to do.

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Speaker 3: You said, that's so much better than me, and that's

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Speaker 3: why you've written the book. Amantha Imber is the author

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Speaker 3: of time Wise and the host of the How I

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Speaker 3: Work podcast. By the book, check out the podcast you

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Speaker 3: need to Do It Need that's a strong you know

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Speaker 3: what you need to do it. It's great stuff. Amantha,

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Speaker 3: What a privilege to have you on the podcast again.

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Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 2: My pleasure.

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Speaker 3: The Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin rolland for

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Speaker 3: Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer.

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Speaker 3: And if you'd like more info about the stuff we've

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Speaker 3: talked about, check out Amantha's podcast, How I Work by

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Speaker 3: her book time Wise, or visit Happy families dot com

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Speaker 3: dot a you