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Speaker 1: It's a special Will and Woody podcast Mini Sports.

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Speaker 2: Let's face it, kind of a conversation with anyone at

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Speaker 2: the moment. It doesn't matter what state you live in

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Speaker 2: or where you live in Australia. The big question is

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Speaker 2: how many people need to get vaxed before things can change, unless,

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Speaker 2: of course, you're living in Western Australia and you're part

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Speaker 2: of the coup that's currently planting dynamite at a very

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Speaker 2: deep depth so they can separate their part of the

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Speaker 2: continent from the rest of Australia and be their own country.

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Speaker 3: Just float away.

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Speaker 2: Good on them, yea, why not? Why not build the wall?

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Speaker 2: I'd do that if I was in WA. But for

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Speaker 2: everybody else it's vaccination numbers. That's the key. We're getting

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Speaker 2: thrown around seventy eighty percent. That's what Scomo reckons. Gladys

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Speaker 2: seems to be on board. We know that Anasta's yards

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Speaker 2: certainly not and Dan Andrews definitely isn't. So where's the

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Speaker 2: horizon for us? More importantly, when's the sensible time to

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Speaker 2: pull out? Let's start listening to the politicians. What are

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Speaker 2: the epidemiologists reckon? And we've got doctor Nancy Backstery Jordans.

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Speaker 2: She's head of Melbourne School of Population and Global Health

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Speaker 2: at the University of Melbourne. Nancy, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 2: What are your faults on these What is there a

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Speaker 2: magic number?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think it's all a matter of kind

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Speaker 3: of thinking about where we want to end up at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, where we aim to get

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Speaker 3: to before we start opening up, and how much we

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Speaker 3: open up, how quickly it will determine how many people

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Speaker 3: get sick and die of this disease. So they're now

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Speaker 3: talking about these numbers seventy and eighty percent, it's important

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Speaker 3: that everyone understands that that's still a lot of people

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Speaker 3: that are susceptible to COVID that are out there, and

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Speaker 3: so I think that at those levels, you know, we

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Speaker 3: probably will be able to maintain our healthcare system in

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Speaker 3: some way, won't be totally overwhelmed, but it's going to

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Speaker 3: be really tough going and there are going to be

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Speaker 3: a lot of sick people. So I would say that

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Speaker 3: we have to be more ambitious than eighty percent of

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Speaker 3: the eligible right now, and we have to really go

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Speaker 3: for higher levels of vaccination, particularly in communities that are

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Speaker 3: more vulnerable. So you know, the disabled community, the aged care,

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Speaker 3: and also you know, the Aboriginal and remote rural region.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's a report that was released today. I'm

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Speaker 2: not exactly sure what the source was, Nancy, but they

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Speaker 2: said exactly that they were talking about really really ninety

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Speaker 2: percent and above levels of vaccinations exactly what you said,

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Speaker 2: including vaccinating people with disabilities and Aboriginal and toeles Straight Islanders.

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Speaker 2: Does that? I mean, just speaking purely from a very

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Speaker 2: healthy thirty year old man's perspective, selfishly, where's the horizon

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Speaker 2: in all of this? Because I feel like I think

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Speaker 2: the frustrating thing for a lot of people is obviously

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Speaker 2: there is this tension around protecting the people that need

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Speaker 2: to be protected. But then there's also this other part

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Speaker 2: of this, which is, at what point do we throw

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Speaker 2: them the ball and say, okay, we can't compel you

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Speaker 2: to protect yourself. At what point does that become a choice?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's a really good point, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I get the frustration. So I do think this has

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Speaker 3: already been a long pandemic, and you know, this kind

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Speaker 3: of never ending pandemic is really challenging for people. A

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Speaker 3: few things. One is that you know, a lot of

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Speaker 3: young people die of COVID, it's not as frequent as

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Speaker 3: the elderly. I think that the issue for children is,

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Speaker 3: you know, they can get sick and they can get

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Speaker 3: also long COVID, which is something that young people can

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Speaker 3: get as well. So you get COVID, you get over it,

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Speaker 3: but then you never really get over it or it'll

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Speaker 3: lasts for weeks and weeks and weeks. But they can

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Speaker 3: also give it to their entire family yea. And also yeah,

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Speaker 3: and if there are outbreaks in their school, their school

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Speaker 3: is going to be closed. So you know, if we

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Speaker 3: want schools to stay open for children and we don't

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Speaker 3: want them to give it to their parents and their

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Speaker 3: grands yeah, we want to protect them. But you know,

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Speaker 3: we're waiting for the trials and children under twelve. But

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Speaker 3: the evidence for children over twelve is that the vaccines

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Speaker 3: are safe and effective, they prevent infection. So you know,

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Speaker 3: we already have approval for that from the TGA has

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Speaker 3: approved them for twelve to sixteen year olds and it's

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Speaker 3: just a matter of getting it to them. And I

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Speaker 3: think that's going to you know, once we get adequate supply,

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Speaker 3: we'll be able to vaccinate teenagers.

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Speaker 2: Wow, all right cool, Hey, we've got more with Nancy.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Nancy Baxster is going to join us right up next.

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Speaker 2: We're talking all about vaccinations. We're talking numbers, we're talking

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Speaker 2: herd immunity, all the stuff that is on the tip

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Speaker 2: of everybody's tongue. Doesn't matter who you're calling at the moment,

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Speaker 2: it's what number for your state is going to get

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Speaker 2: us out of this thing. We've got more with doctor

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Speaker 2: Nancy Baxter, who is head of Melbourne School Population and

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Speaker 2: Global Health at University of Melbourn's stay with us is

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Speaker 2: will and money. Everyone's talking about it. Is it seventy percent?

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Speaker 2: Is it eighty percent? Gee? Whiz woods? Ninety percent? Ninety

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Speaker 2: five percent was what health authorities scolded Scott Morrison with today.

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Speaker 2: They said that's the number you should be going to

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Speaker 2: before we can be let out of all these rolling

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Speaker 2: lockdowns that we're going through. To talk more about it,

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Speaker 2: we've got doctor Nancy Baxster who joins us on the

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Speaker 2: phone right now. She's head of Melbourne School of Population

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Speaker 2: and Global Health at the University of Melbourne. Nancy, you

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Speaker 2: seem to think that eighty percent is not enough in

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Speaker 2: terms of a vaccination target. Moving forward. Can I play

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Speaker 2: a little bit of audio for you doctor Nancy Bexter

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Speaker 2: of gladysbarygically and today talking about this six million jabs

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Speaker 2: and figure that they reached today.

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Speaker 1: I'm so pleased and grateful that New South Wales has

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Speaker 1: already hit the six million jabs and doctor Chant and

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Speaker 1: our team had conversations this morning about what's possible now

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Speaker 1: because we've hit that. Miles Stone and I look forward

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Speaker 1: to making that announcement on Thursday or Friday this week

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Speaker 1: as to what fully vaccinated people will be able to

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Speaker 1: do from the month of September because of the target

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Speaker 1: that we've said. Do you support that notion?

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Speaker 3: Nancy? Well, what I would say is that you know

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Speaker 3: things are going to be better in New South Wales

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Speaker 3: because they've really ramped up vaccination. It's just not a

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Speaker 3: high enough number though, by any means, to actually make

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Speaker 3: a huge difference, because there are so many unprotected folks

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Speaker 3: still in Sydney and still in New South Wales and Delta,

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Speaker 3: the Delta variance of COVID is going to find those people.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So doctor Nancy Rextll, I just want to bring

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Speaker 2: you back to this question that I was asking before

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Speaker 2: because I think this is the one that is really

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Speaker 2: frustrating most people. I think it's generally accepted when when

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Speaker 2: we're not going to live at COVID zero, we're just not.

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Speaker 2: That's the world right now. Everywhere else except Australia and

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Speaker 2: New Zealand really doesn't live at COVID zero. They all

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Speaker 2: have to live with COVID. So at what point do

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Speaker 2: we pull the ripcord and say, Okay, this sucks. There's

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Speaker 2: going to be a teething period where there are going

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Speaker 2: to be people who die who didn't get vaccinated. At

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Speaker 2: what point does that do we start to accept that

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Speaker 2: fate and how much politics gets involved in that, because

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Speaker 2: all along the way here we've seen Scott Morrison take

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Speaker 2: the opposing side to Dan Andrews or just try and

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Speaker 2: create these alliances across federal boundaries to try and jump

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Speaker 2: on popular opinion about how to approach the virus.

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Speaker 3: Well, I must say it has been the politicization of

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Speaker 3: all of this has been disappointing to me. You know,

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Speaker 3: It's been better than say a place like the United States,

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Speaker 3: where even wearing masks and getting vaccinated have been politicized,

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Speaker 3: which is just so tragic for that country. But I

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Speaker 3: think there was a lot that could have been learned

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Speaker 3: from a Victorian Melbourne's experience with COVID and the need

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Speaker 3: for lockdowns that would have helped kind of inform outbreaks

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Speaker 3: and places like Sydney that weren't heated because of the

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Speaker 3: politicization of that. But that is water under the bridge,

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Speaker 3: and I think we need to think about moving forward.

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Speaker 3: One of the things I'd like to say is that

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Speaker 3: you know, we focus on this seventy and eighty percent,

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Speaker 3: and remember it's not including the five million kids that

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Speaker 3: we have in Australia. You know, we are aiming low,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know why we're aiming low. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's fine to think about what we can open up

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Speaker 3: at eighty percent, but we should not be stopping there.

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Speaker 3: We really should be trying to get as many people

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Speaker 3: in Australia vaccinated as possible, and that may means making

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Speaker 3: it easy, like making it easier for people to get

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Speaker 3: vaccinated than to avoid getting vaccinated. Now that that has

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Speaker 3: to wait for the supply to get to be high enough,

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Speaker 3: and it's not right now, but once we get abundant supply,

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Speaker 3: and that's going to be by October, we're going to

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Speaker 3: have a ton of vaccine around, and every percentage that

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Speaker 3: we get above these targets is going to meet a

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Speaker 3: substantial the live saved illness is averted, long COVID averted,

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Speaker 3: school's kept open.

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Speaker 2: It's manifascinating chat, Doctor Nancy BackStar. I suppose the other

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Speaker 2: side of this as well, is you know, you're right,

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Speaker 2: like every percentage that we lift this number of people

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Speaker 2: getting vaccine is going to save lives. I suppose it's

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Speaker 2: just that tension though, isn't it over? You know, the

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Speaker 2: liveability of the conditions that we're currently living in, Doctor

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Speaker 2: Nancy Baxter, thank you so much for joining us. Has

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Speaker 2: been really really really enlightening and informative for everybody listening

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Speaker 2: now and a really critical time. I know this is

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Speaker 2: all anybody can think about, so it's really great to

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Speaker 2: get some hard facts from somebody who knows what they're

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Speaker 2: talking about. It's been a pleasure to talk to you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for coming on the show.

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Speaker 3: You go talking to hear.

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Speaker 2: More of the boys on the full show podcast.

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Speaker 3: You know you want to