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Speaker 1: Now, the Northern Territory Government is preparing legislation to be

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Speaker 1: introduced when Parliament sits next week to reinstate alcohol bans

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Speaker 1: across the Northern Territory, preventing the sale of alcohol to

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Speaker 1: people living in town camps and remote communities. The Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Chief Minister made the announcement earlier in the week,

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Speaker 1: following weeks of national coverage on the crime and alcohol

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Speaker 1: crisis engulfing Alice Springs. The Chief Minister, Natasha Files joins

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Speaker 1: me on the line right now, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie, Good morning listening.

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister. Up until Friday last week, you'd labeled blanket

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Speaker 1: alcohol bands race based policy. What changed your mind?

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Speaker 2: So, Katie, we as a government try and balance what

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Speaker 2: is a legal product. We believe that this legislation that

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Speaker 2: we will introduce is not going back to the stronger

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Speaker 2: futures type legislation. It does allow a clear process for

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Speaker 2: local decision making, but it highlights the complexity of alcohol policy,

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Speaker 2: acknowledging the legality of it, but the harm it causes

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Speaker 2: in our community.

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Speaker 1: So you don't believe that this new policy is going

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Speaker 1: to be race based policy.

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Speaker 2: So we have had people that are unhappy with the

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Speaker 2: announcement that we made earlier this week, and we believe

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Speaker 2: that it does, as I just said, highlight that complexity.

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Speaker 2: But we've outlined a pathway where communities. The criticism has

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Speaker 2: been of us is not that the communities that have

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Speaker 2: signed in, but the communities that have said to us,

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Speaker 2: we don't want to sign in. But we've outlined a

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Speaker 2: pathway where they have to develop a community alcohol plan.

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Speaker 2: It has to have mechanisms if there is harm or

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Speaker 2: antisocial behavior or crime happening, and then that will go

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Speaker 2: to a vote with sixty percent of the community agreeing

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Speaker 2: to that.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, I think a lot of the criticism has

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Speaker 1: also been the way that this has been mishandled, and

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Speaker 1: the stats in this report handed down by Darrell Anderson

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Speaker 1: are shocking. Since twenty twenty one, Alice Springs has seen

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Speaker 1: a seventy nine point four percent increase in alcohol related assaults.

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Speaker 1: There's been a ninety six point seven percent increase in

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Speaker 1: alcohol involved domestic violence related assaults in Alice Springs. Clinical

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Speaker 1: reports from the emergency department at the hospital have observed

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Speaker 1: an increase in the severity of harm being inflicted on

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Speaker 1: women since the ceisation of the Stronger Futures Act restrictions

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Speaker 1: and the report I think for so many people really

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Speaker 1: tells us what locals have been saying for quite some time,

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Speaker 1: as well as Indigenous voices and community groups. Why did

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Speaker 1: it take the Northern Territory government so long to act?

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Speaker 2: So, Katie, We've put in place on multitudes of policies

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Speaker 2: and legislation. We continue to move in this space to

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Speaker 2: respond to the community's needs. We started to see from

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Speaker 2: our clinicians November December changes in the behavior. So we

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Speaker 2: had the severity of the domestic and family violence. But Katie,

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Speaker 2: this is the complexity of what is a legal product.

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Speaker 2: It costs the Northern Territory community two billion dollars a

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Speaker 2: year alcohol related harm. We put in place a mechanism

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Speaker 2: that provided for something when Stronger Futures ceased from that COMMONWEALTHCA.

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Speaker 1: Do you ignowledge now that that wasn't adequate enough? I mean,

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Speaker 1: looking at these figures and looking at what's been handed

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Speaker 1: down in that report, you must, as a Northern Territories leader,

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that that wasn't enough.

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Speaker 2: To Katie, these issues are complex. They've developed over We

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Speaker 2: know that, but.

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Speaker 1: Do you acknowledge that the steps that you had taken

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Speaker 1: were not enough.

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Speaker 2: So Katie, we put in place legislation when the Commonwealth

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Speaker 2: government walked away, we provided an option and we did

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Speaker 2: see communities opt in. But we've also got communities that have,

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Speaker 2: even since Monday, said they're not happy with the announcement.

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Speaker 2: It's a legal product, why should they be targeted? And

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Speaker 2: so this is the complexity that is alcohol policy.

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Speaker 1: But looking at those figures that have been handed down

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Speaker 1: in that report, I mean in Alice Springs, in addition

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Speaker 1: to the figures that I just read out, the number

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Speaker 1: of property offenses in a twelve month period reached a

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Speaker 1: new high according to that report, eighty two hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty two offenses in the twelve months ending to November.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you say to the people who

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Speaker 1: have been screaming out in Alice Springs? They've literally been

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Speaker 1: begging for help.

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Speaker 2: So, Katie, these are complex issues. They're multifactorial. They developed

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Speaker 2: over decades of disadvantage and poverty, and we've tried to

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Speaker 2: invest in the services and we will continue to do So.

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Speaker 1: Do you acknowledge or do you do you though look

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Speaker 1: back now and think maybe we could have done things better.

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Speaker 1: When the Stronger Futures legislation ended, we should have looked

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Speaker 1: at doing what we're drafting now with the legislation.

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Speaker 2: So, Katie, when Stronger Futures was coming to an end

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Speaker 2: and we saw the Commonwealth that not continuing even though

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Speaker 2: they had failed territories by not approving any of the

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Speaker 2: community developed our coal management plans, we put in place

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Speaker 2: a legislative provision. A large number of communities reverted back

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Speaker 2: to being dry. There's ninety six remote communities in the territory, Katie,

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Speaker 2: that's referred to. Eighty eight went back to being dry.

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Speaker 2: We put in place legislation if people wanted to remain

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Speaker 2: dry whilst they developed our whole management.

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Speaker 1: So at this point in time, you don't accept really

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Speaker 1: any fault for what has happened in the last six months.

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Speaker 1: You are purely holy and solely placing that blame on

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Speaker 1: the federal government of the day, even though now the

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Speaker 1: legislation that's being introduced to Parliament this week could have

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Speaker 1: been introduced when the Stronger Futures legislation ceased.

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Speaker 2: So, Katie, I take responsibility for the territory each and

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Speaker 2: every day for a range of things that happened. But

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying is this is the complexity of our

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Speaker 2: core policy and no government has done more around our

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Speaker 2: cohole policy, remembering it's illegal.

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Speaker 1: Proces, Chief Minister. Honestly, I think though listening to those

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Speaker 1: stats and reading through those stats and what's gone on

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Speaker 1: in the last six months, you know, you can say

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Speaker 1: that no government has done more. But these statistics are

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Speaker 1: absolutely terrible. You know, what's going on has been absolutely terrible.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: are wondering if you've got any regrets whatsoever, Katie.

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Speaker 2: This is a complex issue. Of course it impacts Territorians,

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Speaker 2: but it has impacted Territorians for decade. And what I'm

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Speaker 2: saying is alcohol is illegal product. Businesses are allowed to

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Speaker 2: sell it, and we try and put in place mechanisms

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Speaker 2: to stop the products from getting to people that cause

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Speaker 2: harm in our community, as well as providing comprehensive harm

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Speaker 2: minimization and rehabilitation for those that are addicted. But this

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Speaker 2: is a complex issue and we need to make sure

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Speaker 2: that we treat it in its entirety for the whole

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Speaker 2: community fairly, not on a race based policy.

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Speaker 1: And so no regrets, no regrets, whatsoever. No apologies to

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Speaker 1: the people of Alice Springs or those in the outlying

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Speaker 1: communities who've experienced what they've experienced in the last six months.

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Speaker 2: Teddy, We've been anti social behavior in crime for years,

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Speaker 2: for decades. Of course I apologize and accept that. But

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying to your listeners is it is a

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Speaker 2: very difficult policy space. We put in place mechanisms that

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Speaker 2: we believed would work, and they were there for six months,

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Speaker 2: and we did see some communities opted in, but we've

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Speaker 2: also got communities that are pretty annoyed that they're now

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Speaker 2: being forced to be dry community purely based on their

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Speaker 2: address when Aboriginal people live.

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Speaker 1: At what point, though, do you go, do you know what?

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Speaker 1: As the chief Minister, I've got to step up here,

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Speaker 1: and we've got women and children being assaulted, We've got

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Speaker 1: domestic violence rates at an all time high. You've got

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Speaker 1: property crime at rates that have never been seen before

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Speaker 1: in Alice Springs. At what point, you know, do you

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Speaker 1: actually go? All right? We might have to make decisions

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Speaker 1: that people don't like, but we're gonna have to make

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Speaker 1: those decisions. Because up until Friday, you were still digging

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Speaker 1: your heels in on this So.

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Speaker 2: Katie, this is the complexity of disadvantage and poverty, and

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Speaker 2: that's why you've seen US invest in housing, education, life

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Speaker 2: changing programs, but also short term measures to support the community.

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Speaker 2: And we're agile in this space. We look at the

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Speaker 2: factors that are driving it and we will adapt our policies.

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Speaker 2: We had legislation for six months that allowed communities stopped in.

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Speaker 2: No one is questioning who we spoke to in those communities.

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Speaker 2: It has just been around the community.

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Speaker 1: Well, who did you speak to? Let's go to that point,

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Speaker 1: who did you consult with to make this decision, because

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Speaker 1: that was a point that was asked at the press

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Speaker 1: conference on Monday. It was also something that we asked

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Speaker 1: of you last time you're in the studio, and you

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Speaker 1: wouldn't say who you'd consulted with.

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Speaker 2: So we consulted with every community that was impacted with

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Speaker 2: this legislation.

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Speaker 1: Katie.

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Speaker 2: There was hundreds of consultations, whether that was information being provided,

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Speaker 2: whether that was meetings that I was participating in or

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Speaker 2: department officials. So there is a number of communities that

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Speaker 2: have said they don't want to opt into being dry.

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Speaker 2: They were certainly saying that they felt that it was

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Speaker 2: picking on them because of their race and their address.

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Speaker 1: And so why didn't you then listen to the likes

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Speaker 1: of the police. Why didn't you listen or the Police Association,

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Speaker 1: the likes of AMSAD, the likes of Central Australian Aboriginal Congress.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had Marion Scrimjaw, you had others saying

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Speaker 1: this needs to change. What you know, why weren't you

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Speaker 1: listening to them.

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Speaker 2: Katie, We meet with those stakeholders, we listened to them, naturally,

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Speaker 2: Congress and am SAND the same. They're a health body

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Speaker 2: and they naturally would align themselves around alcohol policy, making

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Speaker 2: sure that the health and they's long term health impacts

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Speaker 2: of alcohol. It's not just these shorter term measures. And

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Speaker 2: we see that feedback come through when we develop policy.

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Speaker 2: But you've also got on the other side licensees and

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Speaker 2: industry who say it's a legal product, we should be

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Speaker 2: allowed to sell it. And this is the complexity. We

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Speaker 2: put in place restrictions. We're criticized for that, but if

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Speaker 2: you know, we don't have measures, we get criticized for that.

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Speaker 1: Did you rely on the Attorney General Chancey Paig as

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Speaker 1: your you know, as the person that was doing that consultation.

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Speaker 2: No, Katie. So the consultation was run through the department

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Speaker 2: as Chief Minister Office of Aboriginal Affairs. We also have

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Speaker 2: in each of the regions regional directors who oversaw the

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Speaker 2: consultation within their community. So we engage with remote communities

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Speaker 2: each and every day around a myriad of issues. We've

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Speaker 2: also driven local decision making, so that's how the consultation

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Speaker 2: was run.

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Speaker 1: And did you consult with people yourself, Katie?

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Speaker 2: I've met with traditional owners who have looked me in

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Speaker 2: the eye women, because this is often the question. Or

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Speaker 2: did you speak to the right people who said, Natasha,

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Speaker 2: we work hard, we have a house, why can't we

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Speaker 2: have a takeaway drink just like you lot are other territories.

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Speaker 1: I'm very mindful. I know that you've told us that

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Speaker 1: you are or we were told earlier that you are

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Speaker 1: going to have to leave. So I do want to

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Speaker 1: just rush through some questions. Secondary supply, how's that going

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Speaker 1: to be combat combated with this new legislation?

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Speaker 2: So, Katie's secondary supply is always a considerable issue. We

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Speaker 2: strengthened when we reformed the NT Liquor Act. We tripled

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Speaker 2: the penalties for the secondary supply. It's around giving both

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Speaker 2: licensing and police the tools to act in that space.

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Speaker 2: But it is illegal to on sell alcohol and we

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Speaker 2: make sure that we have those penalties in place as

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Speaker 2: well as mechanisms to stop us.

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Speaker 1: So is there anything new that's going to combat secondary

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Speaker 1: supply with the legislation that's being introduced on Monday or Tuesday?

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Speaker 2: So not specifically to this legislation, but secondary supply is

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Speaker 2: something that is always focused on by both police and

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Speaker 2: licensing and they do things Katie, such as they look

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Speaker 2: at a outlets volume of sale versus their sales and

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Speaker 2: they then see any anomalies and try and act upon that.

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Speaker 2: They then also run covit operations to tackle perhaps individuals

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Speaker 2: that are on selling.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we know that there has been two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty million dollars in ounce for support services in the region.

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Speaker 1: That's in addition to forty eight million dollars announced earlier

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Speaker 1: last year. That funding is going to go towards improved

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Speaker 1: community safety and cohesion, job creation, better services fas D,

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Speaker 1: as well as investing in families and on country learning.

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Speaker 1: There's been a lot of discussion about the number of

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Speaker 1: service providers operating in Ala Springs and if those services

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Speaker 1: are actually delivering. How are you going to ensure that

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Speaker 1: this three hundred odd million dollars is going to be

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Speaker 1: spent in appropriate ways and that those service providers are

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Speaker 1: going to meet KPIs absolutely Katie.

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Speaker 2: So that is some of the feedback that we get

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Speaker 2: that we sign contractional arrangements with non government organizations and

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Speaker 2: feel heartfelt about them that they've got a great brand name,

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Speaker 2: but they have to be delivering what the community needs.

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Speaker 2: Now that could be the time of the day, for example,

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Speaker 2: there's no point having these services from nine to five.

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Speaker 2: They need to be when they best target who they're supporting.

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Speaker 2: So we are not going out there and just cutting.

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Speaker 2: What we're doing is looking at every service that's being

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Speaker 2: delivered because we have Northern Territory Government delivering services, the

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Speaker 2: Commonwealth government as well as the shires and local councils.

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Speaker 2: So we need to make sure that they're operating in

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Speaker 2: cohesion and that's one of Durell's tasks as that Central

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Speaker 2: Australian Coordinator.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so more than thirty NGOs, is there going to

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Speaker 1: be an like, there's going to be an audit. How

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Speaker 1: are you going to work out you know, what is

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Speaker 1: working and is their funding going to be cut if

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Speaker 1: they're not doing the job that they've been set to do.

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Speaker 2: So, as I just said, we're not stepping out just

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Speaker 2: to cut people's funding, but we need to make sure

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Speaker 2: it's delivering what the community needs. So we've got territory

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Speaker 2: families that are working well into the night till three am.

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Speaker 2: Are they getting the backup services and support that they need?

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Speaker 2: So it's around those mechanisms when we hit school holidays

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Speaker 2: or weekends, getting the services to support young people. So

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Speaker 2: it is complex, but having that role based in Central Australia,

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Speaker 2: Miss Anderson will be able to look at what's being

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Speaker 2: delivered and some service providers will absolutely adapt and work

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Speaker 2: with us. Some services will stay the same because they're

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Speaker 2: operating well. But we also need to make sure that

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Speaker 2: we're agile and the delivery of services that might not

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Speaker 2: be meeting the best needs of the community.

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Speaker 1: JEE finister. This new legislation that's being introduced next week,

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Speaker 1: it is going to cover the whole of the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: isn't it correct?

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Speaker 2: Catiues There's been much focus around Central Australia, but this

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Speaker 2: legislation is territory wide and I gain point to that figure.

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Speaker 2: Of the ninety six communities of size so large and

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Speaker 2: small that we refer to, eighty eight went back to

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Speaker 2: being dry. So there's only a very small number, but

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Speaker 2: it's around those homelands, those outstations, so they'll all become

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Speaker 2: dry until they develop that community alcohol plan. It has

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Speaker 2: to be ticked off by Director of Licensing. We don't

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Speaker 2: want to be in a situation where community come together,

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Speaker 2: they develop a plan, it's not a good plan, but

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Speaker 2: they put it to a vote and it gets up.

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Speaker 2: It has to have mechanis. If we start to see,

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Speaker 2: as I said before, any untowards statistics, what are the

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Speaker 2: mechanisms to control alcohol?

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Speaker 1: Chief Finister a couple of really quick ones. Yipper and

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Speaker 1: your school are they going to be getting funding for

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Speaker 1: their boarding house?

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Speaker 2: So, Katie Ypper in your school has seen the Sunset

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Speaker 2: School funded by the territory government. I know that they've

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Speaker 2: had requests around a boarding house. The funding that's coming

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Speaker 2: from the Commonwealth is some of it's one off infrastructure

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Speaker 2: and some's recurrent. We need to look at what the

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Speaker 2: methodology behind a boarding house would be, but we're certainly

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Speaker 2: very open to that.

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Speaker 1: Is there any additional funding going towards law and order,

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Speaker 1: i e. Police.

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Speaker 2: So Katie, in terms of police, we have a separate

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Speaker 2: agreement and I think that's important for your listeners to understand.

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Speaker 2: We've invested significantly in housing, but we have a separate

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Speaker 2: agreement around remote area services. This is additional funding coming

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Speaker 2: into Central Australia. It doesn't impact upon those health reforms,

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Speaker 2: the education reform agreements and police.

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Speaker 1: Chief Finister, I know you need to go, but I

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Speaker 1: want to finish with a question that's come through from

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Speaker 1: one of our listeners, Ollie from Palm o. He says, Katie,

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Speaker 1: can you ask the Chief since she's been Alcohol Policy Minister,

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Speaker 1: Health Minister since twenty sixteen, four years as the Attorney

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Speaker 1: General until twenty twenty, overseeing the Treaty Commission until twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: which has now been ignored and disbanded, will the Chief

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Speaker 1: Minister consider resigning if nothing improves or are you satisfied

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Speaker 1: with your legacy so far?

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Speaker 2: So, Katie, I've never been the minister responsible for treaty,

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Speaker 2: just to point that out. In terms of alcohol policy,

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Speaker 2: we saw a significant decrease in the harm and the

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Speaker 2: statistics related to alcohol. COVID was an interrupter We have

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Speaker 2: been working since then around what we need to do

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Speaker 2: with both alcohol policy, police and licensing, because we know

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Speaker 2: that it needs a multi department response to tackling these

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Speaker 2: issues and will continue to do so.

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Speaker 1: And so will you consider resigning if nothing improves or

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Speaker 1: are you satisfied with your legacy so far?

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Speaker 2: Katie? We've worked enormously hard in this area and will

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Speaker 2: continue to do.

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Speaker 1: So, so you are satisfied with your legacy so far, Katie.

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Speaker 2: In terms of alcohol policy health, we have worked enormously hard.

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Speaker 2: It is complex, it is across a primary healthcare system

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Speaker 2: and acute system. Alcohol is an addiction, but remembering it's

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Speaker 2: a legal product, and so we try and find that

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Speaker 2: balance and we'll continue to be agile with our policy.

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Speaker 1: Chief Sinister, we appreciate your time. I know we've gone over.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for speaking with us this morning.

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Speaker 2: Take care,