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Speaker 1: This is Outspoken, the podcast It's not afraid to say

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Speaker 1: exactly what you're thinking. Our names are.

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Speaker 2: Amy Kate and Sophie Torba.

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Speaker 1: We're identical triplets.

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Speaker 2: But we often don't have identical opinions.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes things can get heated. Outspoken covers all things

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Speaker 1: reality TV, influencers, entertainment, and issues facing women. That is

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Speaker 1: so fat. Thank you, Happy Monday, and welcome back to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Outspoken. Kate, you're ecstatic today because I

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Speaker 1: got my ring resize finally. So it's been a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a process because the first time they did it,

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Speaker 1: they actually made a mistake in the band, so now

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Speaker 1: they had to redo it again. So it's basically been

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Speaker 1: three different rings. But it's back and it's on my

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Speaker 1: finger and it fits perfect. It looks amazing.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: They cleaned it. They said I can come in every

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Speaker 1: three months to get it cleaned. Can you imagine if I.

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Speaker 2: Actually do that? Yeah, you would be sad.

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Speaker 1: No, you should definitely do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Now, Kate, you went privy to this shoot because Sophie

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Speaker 1: and I I thought we'd do a bit more video

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Speaker 1: content for the Outspoken Instagram account. Yeah, well, I was

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Speaker 1: wondering what happened to you guys yesterday because you went

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Speaker 1: a bit mia. You weren't on your phones and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I was taking it very seriously. Yes, yeah, so you

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Speaker 1: may or may not have seen her on our Instagram.

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Speaker 1: We've got a video up and it was Sophie and

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Speaker 1: my take on the that girl trend versus that other

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Speaker 1: girl trend.

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Speaker 2: With the trend that we're trying to start.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so of course that girl, she's the one that

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Speaker 1: wakes up early, she drinks three liters of water, she

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Speaker 1: does exercise, and that other girl is basically your normal,

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Speaker 1: everyday girl that eats breakfast in the car, wakes up late.

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Speaker 1: I did very much enjoy the thread about that other

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Speaker 1: girl in our Facebook community, so a lot of our

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Speaker 1: listeners were chiming in thinking about traits that that other

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Speaker 1: girl would have. So it was things like letting your

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Speaker 1: underpants get so old that you know you need me unders.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, that literally happened to me. I've got

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Speaker 1: this big mirror in my bedroom and I just pulled

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Speaker 1: my undies on, put my top on, and was looking

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Speaker 1: for my leggings. And I looked in the mirror and

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Speaker 1: I thought, what unders do I have on? They have

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Speaker 1: kind of tanned holes like dot poka dots, and then

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Speaker 1: I realized they were holes in the other. Not to

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Speaker 1: give too much information, but the pair of underpants I

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Speaker 1: am wearing at the moment have got the biggest hole

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Speaker 1: in them, but like there's two layers, so I think

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Speaker 1: you need to throw them in the bit.

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Speaker 2: But they're my most cultural ones.

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Speaker 3: Really.

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Speaker 1: I have this hot option pair of under option but

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Speaker 1: they are probably ten years old, and you know, they've

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Speaker 1: got the strap kind of like the bonds where it

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Speaker 1: says hot options and the whole bit, the whole front

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Speaker 1: has literally fallen fallen off. Can there's no coverage going on?

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Speaker 1: Why are sometimes the only ones left? Can I just say,

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Speaker 1: if you're sporting hot options us, I don't think you

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Speaker 1: want that name that you know, the name the branding on.

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Speaker 2: The tag to be seen at all, like Calvin Klein

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Speaker 2: or something like that. Is it?

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Speaker 1: Well, just back to our video shoes. We did shoot

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Speaker 1: a scene in Sophie's bedroom, so Sophie no, So, Sophie

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Speaker 1: was playing the role of that girl and I was

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Speaker 1: playing the role of that other girl. But what was

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Speaker 1: humorous was Sophie is so that other girl? It's not

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Speaker 1: funny so we had to move all this shit in

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Speaker 1: her room so we can make it look a bit nicer. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna ask, because when you're featured as that

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Speaker 1: other girl, you wake up and there's all these cups

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Speaker 1: on the side.

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Speaker 2: Was they already left there?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 1: Actually, I had to clean up my bedroom because I

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Speaker 1: knew Amy was coming over to film, and I took

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Speaker 1: all of the cumps downstairs to fill my bit, so

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Speaker 1: then I had to bring them back up.

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Speaker 2: These cups did you have in your room?

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Speaker 1: Oh? I don't want to say say I did not count.

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Speaker 1: So there are six fine and Brandon. Fun fun fact though,

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Speaker 1: the side of the bed that's featured in the video

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Speaker 1: is actually Brandon's side of the bed, and so we

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Speaker 1: were playing around with Sophie's phone so her alarm would

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Speaker 1: go off for the video. Anyway, it kept malfunctioning and

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't work all of a sudden, So I'm lying

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Speaker 1: in Sophie's bed, which is on Brandon's side, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, we hear the door open and Brandon's

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Speaker 1: home and he starts walking up to the dream and

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Speaker 1: so it's like we're filming something, we're filming something. He

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Speaker 1: walks in me.

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Speaker 2: You've got a light set up.

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Speaker 1: I'm lying in his bed.

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Speaker 2: He wo hated that.

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Speaker 1: He's like, what the hell is going on in here?

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Speaker 2: Can I ask?

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Speaker 1: Just got me thinking about the sides of the bed

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Speaker 1: that you sleep in. I heard in a podcast a

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Speaker 1: while ago that there are some couples that don't have

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Speaker 1: their own side. So I believe that's someone a staff

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Speaker 1: member from Muma Mia. She actually her and a husband

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Speaker 1: just pick a side each night and they don't care.

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Speaker 1: That's really weird. I just could not sleep on the

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Speaker 1: other side. You feel a lout of lag and you

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Speaker 1: like to have.

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Speaker 2: Your own side.

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Speaker 1: I think they take their own pillows, but it could

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Speaker 1: be one night they walked to one side, the other night,

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Speaker 1: maybe up in the air. Maybe that's yeah. I see

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Speaker 1: that variety is a spice of life. Maybe we need

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Speaker 1: to start doing this, mixing it up a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to hi everyone, so I just feel

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Speaker 1: like getting ready on here today. So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: share with you my makeup routine.

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Speaker 2: It's official.

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Speaker 1: Shannie Grimman has cut all ties with ex boyfriend Tommy

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Speaker 1: bug So the pair raised eyebrows last year when Tommy's

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Speaker 1: talent management agency group Zooks continue to manage Sharanni after

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Speaker 1: their split. Well, it was kind of similar to when

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Speaker 1: she broke up with Jonathan because he managed her for

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Speaker 1: a little while. So I kind of thought, maybe they're

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Speaker 1: still holding onto the relationship because we did see Jonathan

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Speaker 1: and Shanni get back together. But that was evident that

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Speaker 1: she wasn't holding onto the relationship with Tommy because she's

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Speaker 1: got a new.

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Speaker 2: Boyfriend in Jo.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, once they'd split and she still remained

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Speaker 1: a part of ZOOTS, I was like, maybe there's something there,

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Speaker 1: or do you think it was damage control because there

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Speaker 1: probably were so many stories circling as to why they

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Speaker 1: broke up that maybe they were trying to be like, look,

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Speaker 1: we're still on good terms. I'm still working with him.

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Speaker 1: No one's done anyone Potentially, I just think she was

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Speaker 1: contracted to Zoots and now it's ended. So on Monday

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Speaker 1: last week, Zoots confirmed they were no longer managing Shanni

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Speaker 1: through a post on Instagram, which they also shed on

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Speaker 1: their Instagram's story. Interestingly, the post no longer exists. So

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Speaker 1: the post thanked Shani for everything it read. It has

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Speaker 1: truly been an amazing journey together and we can't wait

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Speaker 1: to see what you accomplish in your next chapter. Interestingly,

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Speaker 1: Shanny's Instagram bio now points potential sponsors to reach out

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Speaker 1: to management at Shanigrimman dot com dot au. So it

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Speaker 1: appears she's either self managing or has employed someone in

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Speaker 1: house to do so. So I've got a theory. Who

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Speaker 1: here thinks that Shany's new boyfriend, Jacob Tompkins might be

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Speaker 1: her manager.

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Speaker 2: Surely not.

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Speaker 1: Surely she has learned to keep her personal and her

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Speaker 1: professional life a little bit separate. I mean, I know

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Speaker 1: he does appear in her blogs. I mean I think

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Speaker 1: she'd have enough money just to employ someone in house

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Speaker 1: to do it. See, I think it's her life coach.

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Speaker 1: She seems very close with this life coach. I reckon

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Speaker 1: it's either the life coach or the life coach has

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Speaker 1: told her bring it all in house and employ someone

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Speaker 1: like a personal assistant to do it for you. Well,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, I remember approaching Zoits last year, and

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Speaker 1: that was for a client who wanted to find out

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Speaker 1: Shani Grimman's rates. They really didn't get back to me

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Speaker 1: that or didn't really push to make that deal go

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Speaker 1: across the line. So maybe she's finding if she has

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Speaker 1: someone internal to do it, she has more control, more control,

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Speaker 1: I suppose when she was dating Tommy, but he was

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Speaker 1: probably pushing for her to get deals, whereas now not

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Speaker 1: so much. You've got to remember, though, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think the main reason that Shane got Jonathan Sour, her

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Speaker 1: ex boyfriend, to be her manager, was to get him

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Speaker 1: into the same lifestyle that she's in. So you know,

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Speaker 1: she probably wanted him to be hanging around the apartment

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Speaker 1: rather than going to full time work, and you would

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Speaker 1: assume the same might be for her and Jacob, because

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Speaker 1: Jacob is a DJ, he does a bit of modeling,

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Speaker 1: so it would be perfect for him to manage her

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Speaker 1: on the side and then always be around. I think

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Speaker 1: that would be a pretty poor choice, though, because I

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Speaker 1: think what we're seeing even more now is it's really

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Speaker 1: important to have someone on board who can actually choose

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Speaker 1: the right partnerships because it's so easy to make a

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Speaker 1: mistake and just align yourself with someone for the money

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Speaker 1: who doesn't actually fit with your brand.

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Speaker 4: I had the most insane, crazy week last week.

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't end up logging any of it because

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Speaker 1: I knew it would be so intense.

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Speaker 2: On Thursday, Lily Brown sparked pregnancy rumors after uploading an

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Speaker 2: Insta story showing off PR package from Sky Wheatley's brand

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Speaker 2: Good People Apparel.

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Speaker 1: So. The package included an adult loungewear set with a

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Speaker 1: matching baby romper. The note said, Hi, Lil still Clucky.

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Speaker 1: What did you guys think about it? Do you think

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Speaker 1: it's just a joke? I think it's a great PR

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Speaker 1: move from sky Wheatley. Actually, because everyone's talking about it.

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Speaker 1: The fact that it says still clucky question mark, it

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Speaker 1: implies that she's wanting to have children in the future.

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Speaker 1: I don't think she's actually pregnant. Well, it was interesting

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Speaker 1: because I omitted the fact that the friend was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: are you're going to show them talking about like because

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Speaker 1: Lily had opened up the package and that the baby

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Speaker 1: outfit was over there. So I don't know, there was

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Speaker 1: a bit of a vibe where I mean, obviously, as

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Speaker 1: you said, they're trying to get a bit of a

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Speaker 1: tention going around, But do you really think that this

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Speaker 1: is the way she would actually announce to everyone that

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Speaker 1: she's pregnant. As an influencer, you're going to announce in

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Speaker 1: a much grander way than promoting someone else's brand. I

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Speaker 1: think the friend would have been saying, are you going

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Speaker 1: to show them? Because maybe she wasn't sure if it

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Speaker 1: would start.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, very true.

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Speaker 1: I do think it is an attention seeking thing in

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Speaker 1: and good on Sky Wheetley. She's finally done something good

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Speaker 1: pr wise for her company because there has been a

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Speaker 1: lot of shit going on about that Brown track so well.

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Speaker 1: The interesting thing about the rumors about Lily Brown and

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Speaker 1: a possible pregnancy is a fact there are also rumors

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Speaker 1: going around that Lily and her boyfriend, who she's kept

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Speaker 1: very much off Instagram, have broken up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I find it funny because, as you said, he hasn't

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Speaker 1: been a main feature of her Instagram or her YouTube channel. However,

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Speaker 1: people have noted that he doesn't seem to be anywhere

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Speaker 1: so likely not even his hand. Yeah, exactly. It seems

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Speaker 1: to be like completely a vanished from it. So I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure what's going on there. I hope Lily's okay

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Speaker 1: whatever is going on.

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Speaker 3: I just want me girl back because my Sutton's missing

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Speaker 3: them am as well, and I don't like it. He's

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Speaker 3: been a bit down over the past few d's, so

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Speaker 3: hopefully mommy comes back and she reunites the whole family.

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Speaker 3: The Fiori Family's back together.

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Speaker 1: Former UK Love Islander Laura Anderson has revealed some juicy

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Speaker 1: secrets about what really goes on behind the scenes of

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Speaker 1: the hit reality show just days out from the new

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Speaker 1: season launch. So there's been questions raised in recent years

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Speaker 1: why we never see the Islanders eating lunch on camera. So,

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Speaker 1: do you guys know why.

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Speaker 2: They don't have lunch?

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Speaker 1: Well, Laura revealed this is because the camera operators are

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Speaker 1: given a lunch break, so this means contestants can have

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Speaker 1: a break from filming during this period. However, if you're

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Speaker 1: a new couple that's entered the villa, or if you're

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Speaker 1: having an argument with another Islander, the producers will actually

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Speaker 1: split you up from the rest of the group just

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Speaker 1: to ensure there's no juicy conversations or arguments going on

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Speaker 1: that are off camera. I find it strange that they

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Speaker 1: don't have backup camera operators like brother and surely, I mean,

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Speaker 1: can't the contestants just eat lunch at a different time.

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Speaker 1: I know it's very odd. Well, do you also think

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Speaker 1: that they don't include them eating because not much controversial

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Speaker 1: or interesting happens at dinner by dinnertime. I think it's

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Speaker 1: because it's not really great to watch people eating on camera.

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Speaker 2: It's you say that, but because people love moukmunk so much,

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Speaker 2: people actually want to watch.

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Speaker 1: People eating, and I think it would add an interesting

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Speaker 1: element because we all want to know, Oh, what's Molly

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Speaker 1: May eating or.

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Speaker 2: You know, but they day on a plate, they do s.

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Speaker 1: They do always show their breakfast, you know, they always

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Speaker 1: show the boys making the girl's breakfast, so they I

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Speaker 1: think it's more so they don't show it because no

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Speaker 1: one really wants to see them, you know, eating their meals.

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Speaker 1: And it's also correlates with its lunch break for everybody.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that to me feels like it's a

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Speaker 1: real production set. Well, I mean it isn't. It isn't

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Speaker 1: because Laura also revealed that out of the eight weeks

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Speaker 1: of filming, the Islanders only get four and a half

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Speaker 1: day's total off. And what they do is they hold

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Speaker 1: some of the contestants in another villa, so it's kind

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Speaker 1: of like a backup villa where they kill them are no,

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Speaker 1: it's a different one. But they actually separate the girls

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Speaker 1: from the boys so they're allowed to go on the villa.

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Speaker 1: They're allowed to take off their microphone sit by the pool,

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Speaker 1: but they do have chaperones around them, and she also

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Speaker 1: revealed they're given quite amazing takeaways. I remember there was

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Speaker 1: some controversy because there was a McDonald's cup seen in

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Speaker 1: the house and I think maybe Molly may or someone

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Speaker 1: like that had brought it back in from there, not

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Speaker 1: the day off. Yeah, so people were like, how the

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Speaker 1: hell are they getting McDonald's Because for those who don't

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Speaker 1: watch the show, the Islanders are meant to be in

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Speaker 1: that villa the whole time.

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Speaker 2: They can't really go out into the normal world.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine the juicy conversations they're having when they're

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Speaker 1: not being filmed, though, I find it with that they

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Speaker 1: are allocated days off, because I mean, to me, when

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Speaker 1: you watch the show, it looks like they're on vacation

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Speaker 1: the whole time. It's not like on Big Brother they

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Speaker 1: have days off, but mine. Do you think this might

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Speaker 1: be for mental health reasons?

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Speaker 2: Maybe?

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Speaker 1: I mean put it into perspective, it's four and a

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Speaker 1: half days out of eight weeks the filming. The other

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Speaker 1: bit of information I found really interesting was Laura also

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Speaker 1: revealed that the Islanders are often woken up in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the night by producers to change the batteries

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Speaker 1: in their microphone packs, and I thought, cynical me. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they're doing this in order to make the contestants a

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Speaker 1: little sleep deprived, so then they sort of play up

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Speaker 1: on camera.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised at all.

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Speaker 1: Well, why can't they just steal it like on Big

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Speaker 1: Brother when they call them to the diary room to

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Speaker 1: change the batteries during the day. Well, I would assume

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Speaker 1: that they do. But I'm assuming that if they suddenly

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Speaker 1: can't hear audio from one of the islanders, they have

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Speaker 1: to so they actually physically go in. The producer will

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Speaker 1: go in and wake the person up and change the battery.

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Speaker 1: So that basically means that there's people watching them all

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Speaker 1: around the clock, basically like Big Brother. Wouldn't you think

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Speaker 1: though before bed they just go, oh, let's get a

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Speaker 1: battery change exactly. So that's why I think there must

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Speaker 1: be some strategic reason why they're doing it. Well, I

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Speaker 1: am so excited because Love Island UK starts on June

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Speaker 1: the thirtieth on nine. Now I just feel like it's

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Speaker 1: a perfect winter show. I know that sounds weird because

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Speaker 1: it's so summary, but you live vicariously through them, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like we were really robbed last year with

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Speaker 1: it not being a Love Island UK. I've already told

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Speaker 1: Dale to prepare himself because I'm going to be forcing

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Speaker 1: him to watch it with You really should because I

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Speaker 1: forced Reese to watch the winter version with me, and

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Speaker 1: you know they're actually enjoying it when they're off their

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Speaker 1: phone and they start laughing along or asking questions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so excited.

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Speaker 5: For it, So excited to be hosting Beauty of the Geeks,

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Speaker 5: one of my favorite shows.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Dan, it's been ay twenty. This is a

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Speaker 1: very fun show. Beauty in the Geek is returning to

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Speaker 1: screens seven years after the last series ended. The new

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Speaker 1: series is hosted by Sophie Monk, and we'll see a

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Speaker 1: group of women dubbed as the Beauties pair up with

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Speaker 1: some stereotypical geeks under the guise of helping one another out. So,

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Speaker 1: for those who haven't seen it, the geeks are meant

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Speaker 1: to help educate the beauties, and the beauties are meant

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Speaker 1: to help the geeks in social situations. But the new

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Speaker 1: ad for Beauty and the Geek got me thinking do

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Speaker 1: you guys think that this concept is something we should

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Speaker 1: be seeing in twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's very stereotypical. It just seems I mean,

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Speaker 1: for me also, when I was watching it seven years ago,

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Speaker 1: it seemed like it was outdated. Then it seemed so fake.

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Speaker 1: It was quite clear they'd really hammed up the beauties

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Speaker 1: and the geeks to act in this stereotypical way.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be tuning it.

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Speaker 1: But the stereotype that's also disturbing is that women are

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Speaker 1: stupid if they are attractive, and that the men are

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Speaker 1: these you know, ugly geeks who are having to teach

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Speaker 1: the women. And from what I've heard, some of the

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Speaker 1: women have university degrees. They don't need to get taught.

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Speaker 1: I do remember when they brought the geek woman in

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Speaker 1: as well and the beautiful man, but it was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's only one.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I really don't know who would want to actually apply

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Speaker 1: for this show because I just find it really degraded.

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Speaker 2: Social people that want to have a following on social movie.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, I think there's enough reality stars out

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Speaker 1: there who are influencers at the moment. We don't need anymore.

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Speaker 1: That thing said, I'm probably going to watch it, Let's

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Speaker 1: be honest, because it's come out that some of the

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Speaker 1: producers from Married at the First Sight are actually producing

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Speaker 1: Beauty and the Geeking. Oh can I can I predict

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Speaker 1: one of the storylines that one of the beauties will

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Speaker 1: fall in love with the geeks and they have a

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Speaker 1: makeover and then they're actually be hot. But they actually

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Speaker 1: do that in every series I've always watched. Predicting it,

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Speaker 1: I've already I've already picked who the hot geeks are

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Speaker 1: going to be because there's two guys.

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Speaker 2: The ones that are ripped underneath their neody ghosts.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's two tall guys and they've both got suspiciously

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Speaker 1: long looking long beards, so obviously they're going to shave

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Speaker 1: them off and they're going to look different. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm getting bored with you already talking about it.

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Speaker 2: I think it needed to stay back in twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, welcome back to my channel. I had a

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Speaker 1: bit of a laugh the other night because I clicked

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Speaker 1: on Chloe' zep story and she was literally dancing in

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Speaker 1: the moonlight.

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Speaker 2: Did you guys see this?

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Speaker 1: I did see this, and I had to kind of

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Speaker 1: double take at what was going on. Mitchell was looking

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Speaker 1: very slim shady as well. I mean, Chloe said that

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Speaker 1: he looked like Channing Tatum because he was doing a

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Speaker 1: bit of dancing outside.

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Speaker 2: So I didn't really see it.

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Speaker 1: But the funny thing was Chloe is there out dancing

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Speaker 1: in the moonlight and Mitchell is cleaning out his car

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Speaker 1: and organizing his car.

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Speaker 2: It seemed like two very strange activities.

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Speaker 1: That's just two couples who are completely opposite that are,

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Speaker 1: you know, functioning as one couple. So I'm kind of

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Speaker 1: getting the vibe because I'm not in that sort of

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Speaker 1: world of meditation and spirituality. Was she charging herself in

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Speaker 1: the moonlight? Because she then put up an Instagram story

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Speaker 1: the next day where she had had a drink bottle

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Speaker 1: that was left in the car and she said it

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Speaker 1: was charged by the moon. Do you know what's saying?

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Speaker 1: I can't even remember to charge my phone sometimes, let

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Speaker 1: alone charge myself with the light of the moon. Now,

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Speaker 1: they does have something to do with the whole retrograde

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Speaker 1: thing that people have been very retrogaded. Yeah, I have

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Speaker 1: no idea, but I did very much enjoy Chloe dancing.

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Speaker 2: She looked very happy and very free.

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Speaker 1: You know what, if that's what makes her happy, go

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Speaker 1: for it. Do you know what? Can you imagine if

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Speaker 1: that was actually true? Because you never know, you could

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Speaker 1: actually be she could have it all right when there

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Speaker 1: was that red moon Reese's Mum, when I put her

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Speaker 1: crystals outside to charge.

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Speaker 2: So maybe it is a real thing.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I have to go charge myself onto the moon.

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Speaker 4: Like I feel like every year has a new energy,

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Speaker 4: and I feel like this year is really about like

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Speaker 4: the year of just realizing stuff and everyone around me

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Speaker 4: were I was.

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Speaker 1: Just like real things Now, according to journalists Elaine Moore

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Speaker 1: from The Financial Times, Instagram's days could be numbered. So okay, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: is that all right with you? On TikTok so, she

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Speaker 1: wrote a really interesting piece where she says that Instagram

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Speaker 1: is under threat because influencers have taken over the app,

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Speaker 1: and she made some really good points which I hadn't

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Speaker 1: really thought about before. So she pointed out that her

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Speaker 1: own feed is rapidly thinning out, so posts from her

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Speaker 1: friends are disappearing and they're just being replaced by brand campaigns.

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Speaker 1: So she said it's really difficult to know whether Instagram

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Speaker 1: has changed or its users have simply grown up as well.

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Speaker 1: So when you think about it, a lot of millennials

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Speaker 1: who started out on Instagram, they're suddenly creeping towards middle age,

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Speaker 1: so it no longer seems that cool or interesting to

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Speaker 1: actually chuck up a selfie, or you simply don't have

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Speaker 1: time to do it, or something else that I related

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Speaker 1: to was you kind of feel a bit embarrassed to

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Speaker 1: promote yourself in that way.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was listening to a podcast by Stacy Dooley

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Speaker 1: and they had a technology expert on and she was

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Speaker 1: talking all about phone usage for gen zetters, and she

440
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 1: was saying she has noticed that gen zetters are using

441
00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 1: social media in a different way. So many of them

442
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,000
Speaker 1: are using apps like Snapchat, but they're not using them

443
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,479
Speaker 1: to put up Snapchat stories. They're using them to private

444
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,520
Speaker 1: message their friends. There's this sort of desire to keep

445
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,560
Speaker 1: things offline, so they want to use it for the

446
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:28,359
Speaker 1: messaging service because they don't want to post Instagrams because

447
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,560
Speaker 1: they've grown up in a society where trolling is at

448
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 1: the front and center of people's minds, so they're too

449
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: worried to put up posts for fear of what people

450
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,239
Speaker 1: are going to say, And I also think it's that

451
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: they see their own parents utilizing these apps, and as

452
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: soon as you see your parents doing something, it automatically

453
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: comes incredibly uncool as a teenager, Like if your mom's

454
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,679
Speaker 1: chucking up selfies, you don't then want to be sharing

455
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,879
Speaker 1: them in the same spot. I wonder what this means

456
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 1: for the social media world that relies on engagement to

457
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,240
Speaker 1: boost posts and get people on their platform and staying

458
00:19:58,240 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 1: on that platform.

459
00:19:59,320 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 3: Well.

460
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 1: I also I think, just going back to your parents

461
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 1: being online, I feel like a lot of gen zs

462
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 1: are probably choosing to move over to TikTok because old

463
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 1: people don't know anything about it, so you can be

464
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: posting up whatever you like and your parents are hardly

465
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,199
Speaker 1: going to be on your back about. But that was

466
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 1: what Instagram was after Facebook, until it turned into a

467
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,040
Speaker 1: big ad. Yeah, exactly, So it's only a matter of

468
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,359
Speaker 1: time for TikTok turns into a big ad. Do you

469
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 1: guys feel like though when you go onto your Instagram

470
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 1: feed that all you're seeing are ads at the moment? Well,

471
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 1: I don't actually really pay much attention to the feed itself,

472
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,440
Speaker 1: Like I'm more drawn to watching the stories. Yeah, that's

473
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 1: so true, so am I It's I think when I

474
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 1: go on Instagram, I'm actually just inundated with pet photos

475
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:40,919
Speaker 1: because I find they're the only photos I really like.

476
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 1: So Instagram goes So this is what you're interested in.

477
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:44,679
Speaker 1: But the thing is, you know how you were talking

478
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: about the Instagram doesn't really feature any of your friends content.

479
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like people are.

480
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: Still using their stories because it will disappear, and perhaps

481
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter if people have engaged with it

482
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: or not embarrassed. There's no feedback that people can actually

483
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 1: see on it. I mean, people can DM you rude messages, really,

484
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: But then at the same time, I kind of feel

485
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: like what this journalist is saying is correct. I feel

486
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 1: like Instagram is now viewed as an app for celebrities

487
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: and influencers to share their lives, but it's no longer

488
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,720
Speaker 1: something that we use to engage with our friends or

489
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,520
Speaker 1: to share our own life. No, but I'm saying I disagree.

490
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,640
Speaker 1: I think people are still using their stories, and it's

491
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,679
Speaker 1: sort of bordering on what you were talking about with

492
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 1: young people not wanting to have I suppose a digital footprint.

493
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 1: Digital footprint. Yeah, they disappear. I mean people can screen

494
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: record them. But really, I think that all of my

495
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: Instagram stories I see are from influence. Look, I don't

496
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: think Instagram is going to die. I think that people

497
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: are going to have to all influencers in particular, They're

498
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: going to have to start changing the way that they

499
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: use the app, because a lot of influencers will only

500
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: post Insta stories or photos when they're advertising something, and

501
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 1: there needs to be more of a balance of Okay,

502
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,880
Speaker 1: seventy percent of the time I'm going to post engaging

503
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 1: content that will interest my audience, and then the other

504
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,719
Speaker 1: twenty five percent I can do add and my audience.

505
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,959
Speaker 1: Because I feel like, as someone who consumes a lot

506
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,000
Speaker 1: of Instagram, I'm happy to put up with an ad

507
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 1: if someone is consistently giving me quality context exactly not

508
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm just like skip sypsip, unfollow.

509
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 5: Regina George is flowerless. She has to thandie press and

510
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 5: it's not a.

511
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 2: Likeness I hear.

512
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,320
Speaker 5: Here's I'm sured for ten thousand dollars.

513
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 1: Recently, we have been receiving so many questions regarding influencers

514
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: and ad disclosure, So people are sending us screenshots.

515
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 2: Is this allowed?

516
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: There's obviously a lot of confusion out there, which is

517
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 1: why we thought we would get a member of the

518
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 1: Australian Influencer Marketing Council on our show to tell us

519
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 1: what the goat is. So Sharon has kindly given her

520
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: time to answer our questions around ad disclosure as well

521
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: as answer listeners questions around the influencer world. So Sharon,

522
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. Now you're

523
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 1: a member of the Australian Influencer Marketing Council, we'd love

524
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: to hear more about the role of the council and

525
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:53,920
Speaker 1: who is part of it.

526
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, sure, so well, thank you firstly for having me.

527
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 5: It's really great you know how to talk to yourselves

528
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 5: and your audience about this. So, as you mentioned, I

529
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 5: sit on the guiding Council for ACO. I also run

530
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 5: my own influencer marketing agencies, so I've got the sort

531
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 5: of real industry experience across really for the last last

532
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 5: fifteen years I've worked in this area, but also you

533
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 5: know working with AMCO and and AMCO was launched last

534
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 5: year and it was formed by a number of leading agencies.

535
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 5: We have brands involved as well. We have you know,

536
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 5: the marketplace platforms where influencers can connect with brands directly,

537
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 5: and we've got a whole host of sort of talent

538
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 5: agencies as well, So really the full spectrum of the

539
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 5: industry is represented. And it was formed really to provide

540
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 5: best practice and to educate the market on what best

541
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 5: practice is. And I think a really important sort of

542
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 5: distinction to make for AMCO is that it is about

543
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 5: that sort of education. It's not We're not set up

544
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 5: to be the police or a regulator. It really is

545
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 5: about helping brands, agencies and influence makes sense of the landscape.

546
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 5: There are regulators in place for those sorts of things.

547
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 5: So AIMCO is really about best practice and education.

548
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as you touched on, as part of your

549
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: role in the council, you do create a code of

550
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: practice and establish guidelines regarding our disclosure. Can you talk

551
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 1: us through the guidelines and influence that must abide by

552
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: when they are posting about a brand they are being

553
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: paid to promote.

554
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, sure, and sort of probably what's good to sort

555
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 5: of think about it in levels of regulations and I'll

556
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 5: sort of talk about what a inc sort of role

557
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 5: in that is. So at the top level, there's one

558
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 5: I would call the legal requirements of influencer marketing, and

559
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 5: that's where we're looking at Australian consumer law. And Australian

560
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 5: consumer law states that you must not engage in contact

561
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 5: that is line to mislead or deceive. Right, So influencer

562
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 5: marketing comes under consumer law in terms of advertising, must

563
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 5: not engage in misleading or deceiving conduct, So to not

564
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 5: disclose that you're in a paid relationship or that you

565
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 5: have a contracted relationship with a brand, you are actually

566
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 5: engaging in misleading conduct. So through consumer law, you then

567
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 5: are working through what's called the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission,

568
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 5: so that's called the A Triple C. Right, so the

569
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 5: A Triple C has legal clount they can impose legal

570
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 5: finds to brands and influencers. We haven't had a ruling

571
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 5: of that level in Australia yet, but we have examples

572
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 5: of that happening in the US, which is through the FTC,

573
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 5: which is a Fair Trade Commission. So that's kind of

574
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 5: what I would call the legal requirements of influencer marketing.

575
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 5: And then under that there's the next level, which is

576
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,920
Speaker 5: self regulation of the advertising industry, and within that you've

577
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 5: got what's called AD Standards. So if somebody wants to

578
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 5: make a complaint about any sort of advertising of which

579
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 5: influencer marketing sits under, you go to AD Standards and

580
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 5: that's where you've seen some of the complaints being held

581
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 5: up recently for a number of influencers, and that's administered

582
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 5: by the Double A and A, which is the Australian

583
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 5: Association of National Advertisers. So that's the level of self

584
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 5: regulation for the advertising industry and that's where they will

585
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 5: The brand is probably more likely held accountable there and

586
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 5: that's where a number of brands. The most recent one

587
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 5: I think was Unilever that happened last week where there

588
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 5: was a disclosure complaint and then that was upheld by

589
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 5: AD Standards, So Unilever apologized and they actually changed that

590
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 5: sort of advertising message that went out through that influencer.

591
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: That is super interesting though, that it's actually the brand

592
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: that's held accountable because we've seen a lot of well

593
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: we've actually heard a lot of complaints from listeners about

594
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: different influencers who were being a bit sneaky about the

595
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: way they put up different ads. So they might put

596
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,439
Speaker 1: the word ad in the left hand corner of the

597
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: insta story which is blocked by their display picture. Yeah,

598
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: and that's pretty it's pretty bad, I suppose for the

599
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: brand because it seems like they're the ones that are

600
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: going to be held accountable, not the influencer who's actually

601
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: trying to be deceptive.

602
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's both because they will be the

603
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 5: influencer will be working with a brand, right So whilst

604
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 5: the Australian Association of National Advertisers is about advertisers, right,

605
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 5: that still then it has that kind of flow on

606
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 5: effect to the influencer themselves. However, what I would say

607
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 5: is that if it does go to the legal the

608
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 5: first sort of level that I talked about the legal requirements,

609
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 5: which is the hriple C and Australian consumer law, that's

610
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 5: when the influencer can be held accountable and there can

611
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,719
Speaker 5: be significant fines for that. So it's all the different

612
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 5: levels of where the industry is sitting at. And for

613
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 5: aim CO, you know, our sort of role in it

614
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 5: again is not in that regulation space, but more educating

615
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 5: people on what's best practice and what should be considered

616
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 5: for all the different types of relationships that you would

617
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 5: have with a brand, whether it's a paid partnership, whether

618
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 5: it's a gifted product and really educating influencers and brands

619
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 5: on what's really best practice in that space. So our guy,

620
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 5: our guided best practice aligns with the code of Ethics

621
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 5: for the Double ANA.

622
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: So just to be clear, if I'm an influencer and

623
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: I'm being paid to promote something, if I write up

624
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: a caption, what sort of things do I have to

625
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: have in the caption?

626
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 5: Well, the first I mean in terms of looking at

627
00:28:55,160 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 5: the disclosure requirements across the best practice and in the

628
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 5: Double A and A, the first preference is using any

629
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 5: sort of disclosure tools within the platforms. So for example,

630
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 5: if it's a paid if it's on Instagram, they've got

631
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 5: the paid partnership tag and that is undeniably clear, right,

632
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 5: So there's no there's no where will I put it,

633
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 5: how will I put it in? What will I stay?

634
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 5: So first preference is always using disclosure you know, platform

635
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 5: disclosure tools, because that is what they're designed for. Right.

636
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 5: The second level of that, if that isn't possible or

637
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 5: that connection isn't available, it's about clearly labeling that content

638
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 5: as an ad or advertising. So that's been where the

639
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 5: global standards are moving. There's no you know spawn or

640
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,719
Speaker 5: sp or no shortening of you know, the you know,

641
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 5: it's clear exactly to the audience what what the content

642
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 5: nature is. So it is really just moving to hashtag

643
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 5: AD or add can be as a hashtag can be

644
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 5: used in you know, in the copy, but it is

645
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 5: to be the best practice again as above the fold,

646
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 5: particularly when it's a static post. If it's in a video,

647
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 5: it clearly as I think, as you mentioned, it can't

648
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 5: be hidden. It has to be visible, and it has

649
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 5: to be on you know, the first screen, and then

650
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 5: it has to be on ending screen. So again depending

651
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 5: on where you're coming in that video, you will see

652
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 5: it at the beginning or you'll see it at the end.

653
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 5: And if it's a story, it's again required that you

654
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 5: would see that disclosure up front and it's and it's

655
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 5: clear within that copy.

656
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: So how do the rules differ if you're being gifted something?

657
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 5: Yes, so gifted. There's two types of gifting that we

658
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 5: see in the industry. One is where it's more of

659
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 5: a PR style gift. If that's where you're you're sending

660
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 5: out product to could be media, could be influencers, but

661
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 5: there's no control over that content. There's no brief there's

662
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 5: no relationship, and influencer has just received a product, right,

663
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 5: So the disclosure requirements to that is really to disclose

664
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 5: that it is a free gift, right, so the product

665
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 5: hashtag free gift or product provided courtesy by brand, So

666
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 5: that's really clear. So there's not a that's not an

667
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 5: advertising disclosure because there's no control over that content. But

668
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 5: where there is a relationship, and that relationship again doesn't

669
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 5: need to be a contract. It could just be an email,

670
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 5: it could be a conversation, so it's a it's a

671
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 5: contracted engagement of any type, right, so there is control

672
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 5: over that content. It should be clearly labeled as an

673
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 5: ad as well, so it should follow the disclosure requirement

674
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 5: of of any sort of paid partnership. And I think

675
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 5: probably the thing to note is that engagements aren't just

676
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 5: financial as we've talked about. It's anything of value. So

677
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 5: it could be a discount, it could be giving someone

678
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 5: an experience, it could be again as we talked about,

679
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 5: giving away free product or merchandise, So that that's an engagement,

680
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 5: a contracted engagement, So that's where it needs to be disclosed.

681
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 5: And I think brands are and I think influencers should

682
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 5: be erring on the side of caution, and when that

683
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 5: is in place, they should clearly be disclosing it as

684
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 5: an ad because it.

685
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: Is definitely and I feel like in the past year

686
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: we've seen pages like Celeb's belcheck being very vocal in

687
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: holding influences to account who aren't abiding by these guidelines.

688
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 1: Do you find it's worrying that so many large influencers

689
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: still are blatantly ignoring these rules.

690
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 5: I think it's worrying. I mean what we've sort of

691
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 5: seen as some sort of influences have reached out to us,

692
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 5: and I think also we saw this. I don't know

693
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 5: if you guys saw the SBS documentary around the influencer

694
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 5: industry where I think where brands are actually requesting that,

695
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 5: and I think that's probably the more worrying thing is

696
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 5: that's actually happening out there in the market. I think

697
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 5: it is a small amount of people. I think for

698
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 5: influencers themselves, again, which is the role of ANCO is

699
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 5: in education, I think mostly they're not deliberately doing it.

700
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 5: I think it's just a matter of educating on how

701
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 5: to do it. Because the other thing is, I think

702
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 5: we've moved past where branded content feels like a murky world.

703
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 5: I think can people expect it, their audiences expect it,

704
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,719
Speaker 5: and they also expect it to be disclosed, and what

705
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 5: we see is that it doesn't actually hurt the performance

706
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 5: of their content overall. In fact, what we see actually

707
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 5: in industry is content that is sponsored actually is performing

708
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 5: better than nonsine for the content. So it doesn't it's

709
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 5: not something that we should be well, anyone should be

710
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 5: worried about doing, because it actually doesn't affect the performance

711
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,080
Speaker 5: of the content. And I think audiences expect it now,

712
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 5: so it's actually okay to call it out. So I

713
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 5: would encourage all influencers to really make sure it is

714
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 5: clear because I think otherwise you'll lose trust with your

715
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 5: audience as well.

716
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. Why do you think it is that

717
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: sponsored content is doing better? Is it because they're putting

718
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: more effort into it?

719
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 5: I think that. I think that's a very big part

720
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 5: of it. I think where their potentially is a sponsored arrangement,

721
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 5: the influencer probably gets a bit more, the content creator

722
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 5: probably gets a bit more time. They're sort of probably

723
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 5: motivated to look at how they might best, you know,

724
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 5: promote that product within their feed. So I do think

725
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 5: it is about probably the quality of the content. And again,

726
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 5: I think influencers are very certainly the ones that we

727
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 5: work with a very conscious of only partnering with brands

728
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,919
Speaker 5: that will resonate with their audiences. So I think when

729
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 5: you've got that alignment of a really great piece of

730
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 5: content and a product or a brand that actually resonates

731
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 5: with their audience, and you probably will get higher engagement.

732
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 5: And I also think their audiences want to support them,

733
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 5: so they will actually get behind products and brands that

734
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 5: they're the influencer that they've got a close relationship with

735
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 5: is working with.

736
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: You mentioned earlier that it is quite serious if an

737
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: influencer is caught out doing the wrong thing. What are

738
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: the legal ramifications and also what is the what are

739
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: the finds like for influencers?

740
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:47,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, so yes, there are legal ramifications, and so what

741
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 5: would happen is really that that would there's the two

742
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 5: levels you would be held up, but it would go

743
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 5: to the add standards chanel, So that would be really

744
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 5: looking at reviewing whether that disclosure has been misleading, so

745
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 5: that if that is then found to be the case,

746
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 5: it could then be taken to the next level, which

747
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 5: is the Australian consumer Law which is administered by AD Standards,

748
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 5: So that's where sorry, not diministed by ad standards, that's

749
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 5: where it's administered by the double A and A and

750
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 5: that that could be again fines. I don't have an

751
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 5: exact find off the top of my head, but we're talking.

752
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 5: I believe it could be in the millions for brand

753
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 5: and probably about a half a million for up to

754
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 5: obviously it's not what all fines would be, but up

755
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 5: to half a million for individuals.

756
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: That's huge, Yeah, because you think influencers. Obviously, people know

757
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,680
Speaker 1: that influencers do get paid a lot of money to

758
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: be sponsored, to do different sponsored posts. But if you're

759
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: getting a half a million dollar fine, it's really not worth.

760
00:36:58,600 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 2: Doing the wrong thing.

761
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: But then again, I feel it's probably a lot of

762
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: the micro influencers who may not have the education and

763
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: may not be doing the right thing. So those are

764
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: people that obviously can't afford to get those sort of fines.

765
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 5: No, no, And again I think the sort of finds

766
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 5: are there and the big amounts of money, But again

767
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 5: I think it comes down to an influencer wouldn't want

768
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 5: to hurt their relationship that they've put so much time

769
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:29,360
Speaker 5: and effort into building with their audience. So it's about transparency,

770
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 5: it's about honesty and just making it really clear because

771
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 5: I think it's now accepted that influencers content creators do

772
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 5: partner with brands. It's about them choosing the right brand.

773
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 5: But also it's fine to disclose what you're doing because

774
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 5: I think people are okay with it. We accept it

775
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 5: now and it's just part of the way, you know,

776
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 5: the content creation ecosystem works.

777
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: And obviously the Council, they've made up a lot of

778
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: people who work in the industry, whether it's fluencer talent managers,

779
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: people like yourselves who are in marketing. What happens if

780
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: a member of the Council manages influencers who aren't abiding

781
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: by the code of ethics.

782
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a really good question, and that's something that

783
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 5: we are currently working on at the moment at aim

784
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 5: COO because whilst we certainly require members to sign up

785
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 5: to AIMCO and they sort of sign up to abide

786
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 5: by the code of practice, the best you know, industry

787
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 5: code of practice that we do have in place, we

788
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 5: do and are working on taking that a step further,

789
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 5: which is where we'll actually be getting the agencies and

790
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 5: the influencers, so we can have influencers that sign up

791
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 5: to aim COO taking a pledge and as part of

792
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 5: that pledge, it will then be making sure that people

793
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 5: not only are saying that they're doing it, but they

794
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 5: are actually doing it and abiding by that, and that

795
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 5: you know, their team actually understand what that code of

796
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 5: practice is. And then from there we will within a

797
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 5: CO have a dispute resolution process which would then look

798
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 5: at any breaches that happen on that basis. So that

799
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 5: is coming. You know, we've only had the the amcos

800
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 5: have been in place for a year and we've done

801
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 5: a lot in terms of getting a lot of those

802
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 5: best practice guides out there. But yeah, what's coming next

803
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 5: is really a little bit of edge to that and

804
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 5: really looking at pledging that you will be abiding by

805
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 5: that and then looking at how we then have compliance

806
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 5: in place as well, because this is about at the

807
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 5: end of the day, it is about raising trust in

808
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 5: the industry that we all benefit from that. You know,

809
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 5: right as a say rising, you know, the tide or

810
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 5: boats you know, will float higher. So what we want

811
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,919
Speaker 5: to do is have an industry that people trust the

812
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 5: brands are happy to invest more money into because in

813
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 5: today that flows down to influence as well. So the

814
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 5: more trust and credibility that we can have in the

815
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 5: industry the better.

816
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely. So obviously you mentioned that the brand gets

817
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: some form of punishment if the influencers is the wrong

818
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: thing in promoting an ad and so, and the influence

819
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 1: also gets in trouble. Does a talent manager have any

820
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: responsibility there as well, because presumably, as you said, everyone

821
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: wants to be doing the right thing.

822
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, some of that will come down to well

823
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 5: what I call it in legal terms, it's kind of

824
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 5: that trickle down of you know, compliance and where basically

825
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 5: what would normally happen is that if we have a

826
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 5: contract with a client and we're acting as the middle

827
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 5: person in that, we would have a contract that might

828
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 5: be breached as well, because clients now are looking at

829
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,799
Speaker 5: how they require the agencies and talent managers that are

830
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,480
Speaker 5: acting on their behalf, so they are their agents are

831
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 5: abiding by industry best practice. So I would say where

832
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 5: agencies or talent managers would be held accountable, it would

833
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 5: be by who's paying them the money, and those contracts

834
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 5: would have probably some sort of damages and you know,

835
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 5: legal recourse in them because at the end of the day,

836
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 5: you know, you've got a brand that is working through

837
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 5: an agent, so that brand will then hold that agent

838
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 5: accountable for representing their brand.

839
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: That's super interesting one of our.

840
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 5: Listening becoming very legal.

841
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, but I.

842
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: Mean it's as we said before, it's it's such an

843
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 1: Instagram is so new and Instagram adds are so new

844
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: that it is all very confusing. Well, I feel like

845
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:50,640
Speaker 1: it has been the wild West for so long. Yeah,

846
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 1: and the fact that so much money is exchanging hands

847
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 1: now with these deals, it is so important that we

848
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: do have counsels in place like yours and also guidelines

849
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: in place. I think it's great what you guys are doing.

850
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think you're right. It has been definitely

851
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 5: a bit of wild West in the past, and you know,

852
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 5: to grow, and that's because the industry, as you mentioned,

853
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 5: it was very it was very you know, immature, it

854
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 5: was a growing industry, and that's really a sign of

855
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 5: maturity and maturing in the industry that it becomes a

856
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 5: credible channel that more brands will use and want to use,

857
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 5: because at the end of the day, there's also risk

858
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 5: to their brand if an influencer isn't behaving appropriately. And

859
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 5: you know, whilst we're talking about disclosure, a lot of

860
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 5: the work that we do is in the bedding of

861
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 5: those influences, so really looking at what they've said in

862
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 5: the past so that also doesn't come back and hurt

863
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 5: a brand.

864
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 1: And one of our listeners wanted to know, is it

865
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: considered fraud if an influencer buyers engagement and also followers.

866
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 5: Hmm, that's a that's a really that's a really good question.

867
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 2: I mean, you probably have to.

868
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: Prove that they had bought the followers.

869
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 5: And yeah, and look, it is a big problem, I

870
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 5: would say, and we've there's some really great research out

871
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 5: there that says probably up to a third of influencers

872
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 5: have engaged in some sort of bought following actually quite

873
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 5: a lot, yeah, quite a lot. So we do a

874
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 5: lot of work to certainly weed that out in influencers

875
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 5: that we work with, in terms of the analytics that

876
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 5: we have working with the platforms and really understanding and

877
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 5: looking at growth trends and the quality of followers because

878
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 5: we know that you know, certain you know, certain behavior

879
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 5: of followers means that they're bots and actually Instagram is

880
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 5: doing an amazing job of weeding a lot of the

881
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 5: bot activity out. But that doesn't mean you can't still

882
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 5: buy followers and engagement from what they call engagement farms,

883
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 5: which might be in you know, you know, other countries

884
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 5: outside Australia, but it is pretty hard to fake Australian

885
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 5: audiences actually, So I think if if an influencer is

886
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 5: representing themselves and basically presenting their following and maybe they

887
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 5: and I think it might get to this stage where

888
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 5: maybe clients might ask them to just you know, declare

889
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 5: that they haven't engaged in bought activity, then that from

890
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:40,240
Speaker 5: a legal perspective would be fraud. But at the moment,

891
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 5: I don't think there is any legal kind of frameworks

892
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 5: in place that could call them out that that is fraud.

893
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 5: It's just it's you know, it's misleading though, But I

894
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 5: don't know if it could be called fraud at this

895
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 5: stage unless they were asked to find declarations that they

896
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 5: haven't engaged in that activity. But I think we might

897
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 5: move to that place because brands that are wanting to

898
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 5: sort of really I mean, I guess know what they're

899
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 5: getting and I think, you know, we saw that all

900
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 5: with that coastal girl on the SBS program that she

901
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 5: was able to buy her whole following.

902
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was crazy.

903
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 5: And a brand could have been paying her money and

904
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 5: that that money was just being wasted because nobody of

905
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 5: any value have been seeing.

906
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: That from your experience, Do you think it's just influencers

907
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: who are wanting to sort of get a head start

908
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: in the industry, like micro influencers who might be buying them,

909
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: or have you heard of larger influencers still buying engagement

910
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: and followers.

911
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 5: I think there is a case of more larger influencers

912
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 5: may have engaged in it in the past when they

913
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 5: were potentially growing. I think there's been a bit of

914
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 5: fake it till you make it in the influencer industry,

915
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 5: and so being able to look at that within influencers

916
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 5: accounts and understand where that might have happened is something

917
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 5: that we do look into in terms of large influences

918
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 5: that we work with engaging in that activity. Now, No,

919
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 5: I haven't. I haven't sort of seen that, not saying

920
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 5: it's not happening, because I still think that, you know,

921
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 5: there's all different ways that influencers look to gain engagement,

922
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 5: whether they're running combined competitions, with other influencers, whether they

923
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 5: are actually buying engagement, even if they're not buying following

924
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 5: that could that could be happening out there, So I

925
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 5: wouldn't I wouldn't say it's not happening, but I'm not.

926
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 5: I haven't seen that happening with the influences that we

927
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 5: work with.

928
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 3: No.

929
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,439
Speaker 1: Another listener wanted to know. Do you think there will

930
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: ever be regulations around health and finance influencers who have

931
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: no qualifications, who are handing out different advice?

932
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 5: Yeah? I think yeah. I saw your your previous episode

933
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 5: on influencers as well in terms of offering financial advice.

934
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 5: I do think there already is sort of if we

935
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 5: think about advertising standards, there is there is some advertising

936
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 5: standards around therapeutic goods, but I think influencers could be

937
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 5: you know, if that again, there was some sort of

938
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 5: complaint that that would be again would go through ad standards.

939
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:32,280
Speaker 5: And if somebody is making you misleading or perpetuating misinformation

940
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 5: about health claims, then I would certainly encourage people to

941
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 5: go to ad standards and make a complaints because if

942
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:47,439
Speaker 5: they are misleading or perpetuating misinformation, then that potentially would

943
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 5: be held up because just as an ad couldn't put

944
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 5: that out there. And influencer acting with a brand is

945
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 5: a form of advertising, so it should be required and

946
00:47:58,320 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 5: regulated by that as well.

947
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: So recently the Australian Association of National Advertisers revised their

948
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 1: Code of Ethics, with new rules coming into effect on

949
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: the first of February twenty twenty one. Can you talk

950
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: us through the revised code?

951
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, So for influencer marketing, the revised code really was

952
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 5: clearing up some of the confusion around what disclosure tags

953
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 5: to use. So that really was where it moved, not

954
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 5: to any sort of branded content or brand ambassador sort

955
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 5: of hashtags or disclosure and it really just focused on ads,

956
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:46,879
Speaker 5: advertising or advert as the preferred disclosure sort of code usage.

957
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 5: So that was the main update I think for the

958
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 5: advertising industry, and part of that was really just looking

959
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 5: at a lot of the brand and influencers work on

960
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 5: a global basis, so it was really looking at what's

961
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 5: the global industry standard and what is what can everybody

962
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 5: sort of use And it was really around that ad

963
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 5: and advertising. So no, you know, no shortened films, no

964
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 5: just a brand partner, no just a brand ambassador. It

965
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 5: was call it for what it is it's.

966
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 1: An ad that's super interesting. Thank you so much for

967
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,439
Speaker 1: all of your time. That's all the questions we had.

968
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,839
Speaker 1: I think everyone will have learned so much from what

969
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: you had to say.

970
00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 5: My pleasure. Yeah, I mean, as I said, we're here

971
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 5: to try and increase trust in the industry and it's

972
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,799
Speaker 5: all about growing the industry, so you think. Thank you

973
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 5: guys for helping educate the industry through this podcast as well.

974
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 5: So thank you so much for having me.

975
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 1: Well that's all we've got time for today. Thank you

976
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: so much for joining us for another episode about Spoken.

977
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: If you did enjoy the show, we would love if

978
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 1: you could go and leave us a five star review

979
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: and subscribe to us on Apple and Spotify. Also, if

980
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: you'd like to join in on the conversation, we'll be

981
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 1: having threads in our Facebook community, which is outspoken the

982
00:49:58,719 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: podcast community.