1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Well, we know that a popular NT swimming spot's now 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: being closed for some time due to concerns about crocodiles. 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Swimming speed off limits at Butterfly Gorge since September last 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: year after a salty was spotted with rain then creating 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: some access issues. Now a three point six meter crocodile 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: was later removed, but Boggie conditions meant that the site 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 1: was unable to be opened until the dry season, but 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: it remains closed now. Joining me on the line to 9 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: tell us a bit more about the situation. MT Parks 10 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: and Wildlife Executive Director Neva McCartney, Good morning to you, Neiva. 11 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, Thanks so much. 12 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: For your time this morning. Now, what's the latest on 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: Butterfly Gorge? 14 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, so good, good summary. We did have a crocodile 15 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: in there, and we did have some early rain last year, 16 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 2: so the gorge was closed off and on a bit. 17 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 2: We did have a few sightings of which then our 18 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: crocodile risk plan kicks into play and we go and 19 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 2: do what we need to do to confirm or otherwise 20 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: of the crocodile. And then we did have that early rain, 21 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 2: as you say, so we put the trap in and 22 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: it was too late in the season to open again, 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 2: and we did get the big crocodile. So we do 24 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: what we do, and what we found when we did 25 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: a bit of an assessment of the plan, we like 26 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 2: it to be low risk. We never say no risk 27 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 2: is with all the traps and all the checking and 28 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 2: rebaiting of those and bite balls and surveys during the 29 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 2: season and any natural barriers and any other things we 30 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: can do. If we think that's not enough and there's 31 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: an animal could go in there and detected, then we 32 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 2: don't have any other options except for to close it 33 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: and find it's an alternative swimming area. 34 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, which even though you know, I'm sure people want 35 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: to get in there and have a swim, Like, You've 36 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: got to be so so careful with these types of things, 37 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: don't you. Oh. 38 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: Absolutely. And you know this particular crocodile had one eye, 39 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: which made obviously crocodile surveying at night particularly hard for rangers. 40 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I had not even thought of that. When you 41 00:01:57,720 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: said it had one eye, I was thinking, you know, 42 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: what does that mean? 43 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: But yeah, I would have had a really old injury. Yeah. 44 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: So yeah, and you know, you don't know those things 45 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 2: until you actually get crocodiles that have injuries or other things, 46 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 2: so I'm not glad it went in the trap. And yeah, 47 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 2: so we are looking at an alternative walking track that's 48 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 2: a bit further upstream up to the top of the escarpment, 49 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: much easier to manage for surveys and safety, and that'll 50 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 2: be an alternative option when we get that sorted. 51 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: Okay, and so so talk us through those plans for 52 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: the site and when that work's going to get underway. 53 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 2: So we're doing an authority certificate through AAPA now, which 54 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 2: to just check that there's no sacred sides in the 55 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 2: area where we're going to put the walking track. It'll 56 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: be about a five hundred meter walking track further up 57 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 2: I shouldn't say upstream, further uphill if you like, and 58 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: there's a pull up up there that we can survey 59 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 2: easily and all the crocodile management that through that plan 60 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: will be undertaken. So that'll just give people it's not 61 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 2: that far another option that we won't probably ever open 62 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 2: the bottom pool again because there's nothing else we can do, yeah, right, 63 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: unless new technologies come into play, and that's always an option, 64 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 2: and we hope that will be ready for next dry season. 65 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: And so had the Bottom Pool been quite a popular site. 66 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it gets about fifteen to one hundred to two 67 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: thousand people a year, so it's not our most popular 68 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: site obviously for swimming, but it's still open to go. 69 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: It's a lovely spot still for wildlife, you know, both 70 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: bird spotting and having a picnic with the family, but 71 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 2: just no swimming. 72 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: And so the primary reason for that, though, is the 73 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: crocodile is shoe or is it also the access side 74 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: of thanks, So. 75 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is if the access is fign at the moment, 76 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: but it does closed very quickly if you get early rain. 77 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: It's one of those roads that can be inundated with 78 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: water quite quickly. 79 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so do you reckon people will be upset 80 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: that that, you know that the Bottom Pool probably won't reopen. 81 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 2: Again, not if they think they're going to get eaten 82 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: by crocodil. 83 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very true. 84 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: We've had We've had a couple of visitors asking if 85 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: it's going to be open and when it might be open, 86 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: and our message is quite clear that we're not opening 87 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: it at this stage. We're looking at alternative swimming in 88 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: that area. 89 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: All right, And so now, tell me is with the 90 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: croc management more generally at this point in time, how 91 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 1: are things going with some of the other sites. 92 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think everything's going really well. I would 93 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: we put our hand on our heart and say that 94 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: we do do it well. We say it's low risk. 95 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: And you know, everyone knows about the incident that happened 96 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 2: at one Guy. Just more recently, because of that, we 97 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 2: did a whole review of all of our crocodile management plans, 98 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: looking at traps, where they are, how often we rebate them. 99 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: We've made a few changes because that's what we do, 100 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: and that's what the plan say will do. We like 101 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 2: to put a hand on a heart and say it's 102 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 2: safe to swim, but it's low risk. So that's all happened. 103 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: So we've changed a few things, not too much, but 104 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: we've just looked at how often we survey and we 105 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: step that up a bit, particularly in those water holes 106 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: where they are really really popular, like Wangai and Florence, 107 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: et cetera. Yeah, and yeah, I mean it's it is. 108 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: There's so much that's done that I don't think anyone 109 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: really appreciates in terms of work that goes in to 110 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 2: make sure that these these places that you know and 111 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: for tourism in the territory, and that's that. And we 112 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: just crack on and do that and I think it's 113 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: going really well. It's less risk than driving your car 114 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: to work. I say. 115 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: It'll be bloody hard work though as well, you know, 116 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,119 Speaker 1: making sure that all of those sites are for people 117 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: to swim in and and ensuring that there aren't crocodiles 118 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: in there, like it would it would be a lot 119 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:06,480 Speaker 1: of work. 120 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: Yep. It's it's almost a daily depending on which which 121 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 2: area you're talking at, there's always something to do every 122 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: day in terms of what's what we do in our 123 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 2: crocodile management plan. So, like I said, there's traps checking 124 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 2: and rebaiting the bite balls, which are the boys or 125 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: crocodiles like to give them a chew, so that put 126 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: indication surveys before and during the season and that and 127 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 2: that can be weekly deterrent fencing that we pull up 128 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: and pull down in certain places like at Wongai and 129 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 2: Berry Springs, and a whole bunch of other things that 130 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 2: we do. 131 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: Neva, tell me, do you have any You may not 132 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: have the numbers in front of you, but how many 133 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: crocs have been caught so far this year. 134 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: I don't have it in front of them. 135 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: That's all right, No, that's all good. We can follow up. 136 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: I just think it's always interesting, you know, when you 137 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: look at those numbers and when you talk about the 138 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: crocodile population and there does seem to be a lot 139 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: of crocodiles out there. 140 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is. And they also self regulate, if you like, 141 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: they eat each other. 142 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, yep, it's true. Oh will Neva, I really 143 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: appreciate your time this morning. Thanks very much for having 144 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: a chat with us and letting us know a bit 145 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: more about butterfly gorge and no doubt we'll talk to 146 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: you again soon. Thank you, thank you.