1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,960 Speaker 1: And I have an expression which I've used with you, 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: I know, which is someone might bring my use where 3 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: you know, where are you? 4 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 2: Cat? I go, I'm the long holo mirrors. 5 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: You know, I've had to get long holo mirrors and 6 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: have a look at myself because that didn't work or 7 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: I messed that up, or that failed, and shit, I've 8 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: got to go and actually really genuinely see what I 9 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: did wrong. And I love that in the Ben Horwitz 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: book The Hard Things, where he talks about you know, 11 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: if you're the CEO and things are failing, you know, 12 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: you're probably blame the market, and you're probably blaming investors, 13 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: and you're probably blaming employees. 14 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 2: But actually it's you. You're the onely stuff en up 15 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 2: and you're you're the failure. Actually yeah, pretty much that's it. 16 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: And so you need to be have an introverted part 17 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 1: of you that can genuinely take that back, get rid 18 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: of all the defenses and go, Okay, why isn't this working. 19 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: There's some probably fundamental flaw in me that I need 20 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: to work on myself in order to fix the business. 21 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 3: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 22 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 3: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 23 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 3: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imbat. I'm an 24 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 3: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 25 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 3: finding ways to optimize my workday. My guest today is 26 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 3: doctor Katrina Wallace, who is the founder and CEO of 27 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 3: high profile fintech and ASX listed company Flamingo. Flamingo provides 28 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 3: a cognitive virtual assistant or artificial intelligence called Rosie that 29 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 3: helps financial services companies all over the world improve online 30 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 3: sales conversion rates and better service their customers. Kat is 31 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 3: based between New York and Sydney and is one of 32 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: the world's most cited experts on the future of customer 33 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 3: experience and artificial intelligence. Kat was recently named one of 34 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 3: the Australian Financial Reviews one hundred Women of Influence and 35 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 3: topped the Business and Entrepreneur category. Now, I first met 36 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 3: Kat when we were both speaking at a conference in Portugal, 37 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 3: of all places, nearly a decade to go, and since 38 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 3: then Kat has become one of my most influential mentors 39 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 3: and also a really good friend. Now, when you imagine 40 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,359 Speaker 3: a CEO of an ASX listed company, Kat is not 41 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: quite what you expect. Sure, she is incredibly smart, but 42 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 3: she has very contrarian views and is quite hilarious in 43 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 3: how she delivers them. Now, in this interview we cover 44 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: so much ground from how to be a gun salesperson 45 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 3: because Kat is indeed that her travel tips that she's 46 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 3: learned from having flown from New York to Sydney around 47 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 3: fifty times in the last three or so years, and 48 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 3: her very unconventional approach to parenting because on top of 49 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 3: all her business achievements, she also happens to be a 50 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 3: mum of five kids. So on that note, over to 51 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 3: Cat to hear about how she works. 52 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: Kat, Welcome to the show, Thank you member. 53 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 3: Now I want to start by talking about your role 54 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: as CEO of ASX listed company Flamingo AI and like, 55 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 3: how many female CEOs are there of listed companies in Australia. 56 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: Well, not a huge number, and in fact, when we listed, 57 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: which was November twenty sixteen, I had a female chair 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: at the time, Kathy Reid, and we were the second 59 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: only female led business ever to have listed on the 60 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: AX and that would be I think there's about two 61 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: and a half thousand companies who are on the AX 62 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: and obviously there have been many that come before. So 63 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: it's still a very unusual place for women chairs to degree, 64 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: women board members and certainly women are CEOs, and a 65 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: much more unusual situation to have multiple levels of women 66 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: leading companies that are ASX listed. 67 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: Wow, and what's that like? 68 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 3: Making the transition from just like your run of the 69 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 3: millstock standard CEO to one of a listed company, Like, 70 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 3: what what's that like? 71 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? Entirely different. 72 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: So I was the CEO of other companies that I 73 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: had founded, so co founded ACA Research and founded fifth 74 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: cod so very use of being a se of a 75 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: privately held professional services company, So moving into a listed 76 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: environment is entirely different. In fact, the skill sets are 77 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: entirely different. So the ASEX obviously requires huge amount of compliance, regulation, 78 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: governance and reporting and this would be probably ten percent 79 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,559 Speaker 1: of our budget and time would be spent on making 80 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: sure that we're highly compliant with what the ASEX requires. 81 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: Another chunk of time is spent with addressing and engaging 82 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: the capital markets. So the investors themselves, so these investors 83 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: could be institutions or in fact retail investors, so Australian 84 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:39,160 Speaker 1: mums and dads, and we have about three and a 85 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: half thousand investors on our register. 86 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 2: All of whom are pretty keen to give me a 87 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 2: bit of. 88 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: Advince feedback on a on a daily basis. 89 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: Wow, oh my gosh, okay, And what is that like, 90 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 3: because I imagine it must be so much pressure. 91 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 2: Like in what you do there is there's huge pressure. 92 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 2: So this pressure to. 93 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: Comply and to disclosed, so we anything that's material that 94 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: happens in the business, so it could be a contract, 95 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: could be a loss of a staff member needs to 96 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: be disclosed publicly to the market. So it's like open kimono. 97 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: And for a very early stage company, there's a lot 98 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: of flashing that's involved in doing that. So it's actually, 99 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: I don't believe a natural place for a high tech, 100 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: emerging market early stage company. However, it is a very 101 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: efficient mechanism for raising capital, so that's the upside. The 102 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: other real challenge for young companies is it's quarterly reporting, 103 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 1: and as you know, an innovation, as all your listeners know, 104 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: innovation may not pay dividends for one, two, three, for 105 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: five years as you're building and inventing and getting something 106 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: and testing it to market, So it is it's a 107 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: very challenging environment for young innovative companies. I would say 108 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: it's probably not a natural and natural environment, but very 109 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 1: good for raising capital. And I think it also puts 110 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: a tremendous revenue discipline on young companies as well, So 111 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: they're the upsides of the listing. 112 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 3: What's been the single hardest thing in this role for you, 113 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 3: so I. 114 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: Think it is getting a balance between me as a 115 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: CEO and board member to engage and spend time in 116 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: the capital markets doing capital raising, working with the analysts, 117 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: working with the institutions, engaging all of the investors at 118 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: the same time as I really should be focused on 119 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: growing developing the business. As you know, I'm like a 120 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: gun salesperson, so I just love to sell. So it 121 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: takes away time from what we would naturally be doing 122 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: if we were in private hands and we actually didn't 123 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:56,559 Speaker 1: have to do all of that, all of that work. 124 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: That sounds so challenging. And I do want to talk 125 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 3: about sales because you're un salesperson, and I feel like 126 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 3: that's quite rare for someone from an academic background as 127 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 3: you are, and before that you were a policewoman, and 128 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 3: even females. I feel like females, you know that there's 129 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 3: not many who would see themselves as gun sales women. 130 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: So like, when did you start even thinking that you 131 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 3: were a gun salesperson? Yeah? 132 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 2: Great, Christia. 133 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: So I never would have described myself as that previously, 134 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: nor thought that I would ever have a career in 135 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: high tech listed or sales. In fact, as you know, 136 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: I did want to be a farmer was my initial 137 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: ambition and still unrealized ambision. But what I found is 138 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: with the particular product that we have so artificial intelligence, 139 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: machine learning, virtual assistance, knowledge engines, business analytics tools, I'm 140 00:07:54,840 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: so super pumped about what it can genuinely this world 141 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: will transform into that. I know it's a particularly useful 142 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: product ours is well made, and so I get excited 143 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: about the opportunity that it is for actually mainly for 144 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: our clients. So I come from a very strong human 145 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: centered design customer experience background, and I know that organizations 146 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: need this type of technology and it's cool, right, Who 147 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: doesn't love robots? 148 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: Let me think about that. 149 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: So I get excited about selling it and seeing it's 150 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: probably also timing back to what you said about the 151 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: academic side of it. I do a lot of work 152 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: in educating the market and educating and investors and educating 153 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: boards and CEOs and where I see kind of the 154 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: light go on the head around. Oh okay, this is 155 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: not Terminator or West World. It actually can be good 156 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: for efficiency, good for engaging customers. Then that's exciting to me. 157 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: So I love that whole whole cycle. 158 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 2: You can't get enough of it. 159 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, And like, on a kind of practical level, when 160 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: you've got a big sales meeting coming up, what's your 161 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: process for preparing for that? 162 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? 163 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: Right, So I have a particular that I'm very happy 164 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: to share the way that I would spend an hour 165 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: in a sales meeting, but in preparation for it, would 166 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: I would make sure that there was a for us 167 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 1: as a technology company, so I have a salesperson with 168 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: me and a solutions architect, so someone who can actually 169 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: translate to technology. We would make sure that we've kind 170 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: of stalked who everywhere seeing before the sales meeting, so 171 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: we know exactly the background, where they've come, what they're 172 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: interested in. We might have done some analysis of the company, 173 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,319 Speaker 1: what's in the media about them, what are their business problems? 174 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 3: And how do you stalk someone like is it more 175 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,439 Speaker 3: than just looking at their LinkedIn profile? 176 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 2: Like what does that look like. 177 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's mainly look at the LinkedIn profile, but 178 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: we will kind of gang through Facebook, Twitter or some 179 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: other creepy channels as well, just to find something. And 180 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: what I've found, it's actually really useful to find something 181 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: that personally, beyond professionally, you know, you may have a 182 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: connection with. So we do a bit of that research. 183 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: I might get other people do that research. So sometimes 184 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: I'll be on my way to a meeting and I'm 185 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 1: getting one of the sales teams texting me, Okay, here's 186 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: the person you're meeting. Here is their background, here is 187 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: what they're interested in. I will also make sure I 188 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: know what's in the media that's going on, just in 189 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 1: case there's any sensitivity is and so we're pretty prepared 190 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: when we get there. But I also like sales meetings 191 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 1: to be a conversation, not a pitch, and that's I 192 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: think where it really needs to go. Pitching is super 193 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: boring for the client and for the salespeople. So it's 194 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: much for about how you engage in a sales conversation. 195 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: So you want me to give you my hour? 196 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, the secret I. 197 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: Think that the secret's been taken it Okay, so this 198 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: is what we do. We'll start some americanisms, as you know, 199 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: an office in New York, top of the hour, and 200 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: we would do initial introductions and then make sure that 201 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: understood if the key people in the room, is there 202 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: anything of particularly interest they're interested in covering for the hour? 203 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: So we just but that nailed in five minutes. Right, 204 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: So here's the people in the room, this is what 205 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: they're interested in. 206 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: Got it? 207 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 3: Got it? 208 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: Got it? So you get their agendas out front. 209 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 3: And sorry, I'll keep you interrupting it. How do you 210 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 3: introduce yourself? Like how do you kind of shortcut to credibility? 211 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 3: Like you're you're a female, you've got a nos ring 212 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 3: which people can't see, a million dollar nosering? Yes, Like 213 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 3: how do you build credibility for yourself quickly? 214 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? Right? 215 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: So I would take control of the meeting, and I 216 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: will make sure, even if there's a sort of client 217 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 1: hosting it, that I would graciously take control of the 218 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: meeting from them. 219 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 2: So that's number one. 220 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: Second things, I will always speak last. I think it's 221 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: a sign of a great leader that they always speak last. 222 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 1: So everyone goes around and introduces themselves. Then I'll introduce myself, right, 223 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: at the end, very strong, positive body language, strong voice, 224 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: and introduce myself as a CEO and founder. I will 225 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: also often introduce myself as doctor Wallace, which normally I 226 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: wouldn't do because slightly want to choking my own vomit 227 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: saying that. But then just to establish that credibility upfront, 228 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: and then I will talk about the company very quickly, 229 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: and I will name the brands that we work with, 230 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: which are all very established, world class brands. So within 231 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: that first really five minutes five to seven minutes, depending 232 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: on side of the group, you do want to establish 233 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: mastery and have the female have taken control, but taken 234 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: and control in a gracious way. I think, in the 235 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: way a true leader does, which I believe is you 236 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: kind of you go last, but you're still controlling the group. 237 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: So we will do that. Sometimes we will send ahead 238 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: of time quick bios, short bios on each of the 239 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: team members, and in those buyers, we make sure we 240 00:12:56,040 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: go oh, financial, AFL, Businesswoman of the Year, and putting 241 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: whatever else we've got in there so they know who 242 00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: they're dealing with. And I think it's very important to 243 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: establish mastery right up front, particularly as a female lead. 244 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: Then we would go, so, say five seven minutes on that. 245 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: Then we go straight into the establishing. 246 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 2: The problem in the market. 247 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: So that would be at the moment ais the high 248 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,079 Speaker 1: s growing tech sector in the world, growing fivefold per annum. 249 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: Thirty percent of jobs in the financial services sector will 250 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: be replaced by robots within the next six years, et cetera, 251 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 1: et cetera. So give them paint the picture of the 252 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: problem in the market. And organizations such as yours and 253 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: many of our other clients are facing xyz problem. You're 254 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: trying to increase your sales, reduce your cost, and provide 255 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: a bit of customer service. Almost impossible to do. So 256 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: the solution to that, one solution to that is an 257 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: artificial intelligence automation solution. So start off ed, hate them, 258 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: create a picture of what the problem is that they 259 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: sit in, and then we'll go straight into very briefly 260 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: saying this is what we do, and here's a demonstration 261 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: of what we do. So demonstrations are like hideous things, right, 262 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: They're just hideous things. They're always bad. They're not, it's 263 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: just terrible. But nobody understands our technology until they see it. 264 00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: So I've learnt that normally you might not in a 265 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: sales pitch, do a demonstration right up front, But we 266 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: have people still wondering what's the robot, what it has 267 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 1: a software robot, how does that work to right at 268 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: the end. So you've just got to kind of pull 269 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: out everything that's in their head. That's a question to 270 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: start with. So within that first fifteen to twenty minutes, 271 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: they know who we are, we've established mastery, we know 272 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: what they're interested in, they know a bit about the company, 273 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: and they know what our technology looks like. Then we 274 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 1: would get into use cases. So we'll go another five 275 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: ten minutes. Go, okay, here's an example of where it's 276 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: been used in your industry, and here's the results sample, 277 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: his results, his example, his results. Maybe through those and 278 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: so you're down to the sort of half hour and 279 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: they're pretty well engaged now, and it's an exciting because 280 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: in their minugate they'll be going, oh, yeah, that's my 281 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: pro I've got that problem. Oh I've got that problem. 282 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: Then we throw it to them. The next fifteen to 283 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: twenty minutes, it's okay, over to you. What are the 284 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: challenges that you're facing Some of them may have mentioned 285 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: it in the introduction, or what are some of the 286 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: the problems that you're having or goals that you're having, 287 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: and then they will brainstorm that. We just facilitate that 288 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: around to about ten minutes before the top of the hour. 289 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: Then at that stage we take the meeting back and 290 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: we say, okay, what would be some potential use cases 291 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: that you could see this technology providing. Five minutes on 292 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: that they'll just and so we'll just be writing that down, 293 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: and then if we're very bold, we will actually say 294 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: to them, so to do an engagement like this, what 295 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: sort of budget would. 296 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: You be thinking? 297 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: And how ready are you to start working on an 298 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: assignment like this? And so again, something I've had to 299 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: learn is to do the money things straight up. Almost 300 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: can be in the first meeting done elegantly. It's a 301 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: really really good thing to do. And then by the 302 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: end of that we've agreed on next steps, which would 303 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: be normally to write a proposal for them. 304 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 3: How do you do the money thing elegantly? 305 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 306 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I would say at the end of the 307 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: use case, Wow, that's great, We've got at least there, 308 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, five really significant use cases. And I can 309 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: see that if on our experience, if we did that, 310 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: you're likely to save a significant amount of money or 311 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: increase your conversion rates, that'd be great. So if you 312 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: were looking to do this and we were considering a 313 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: budget to do a trial or a proof of concept, 314 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: what would be the ballpark at that budget, Just so 315 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: we can go away and scope it up to meet 316 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 1: your requirements, and of course we can be bit flexible. 317 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: It'd be great to get that ballpark now. And they 318 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 1: might go, oh, we don't know, we're not sure, and 319 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: then we'll push it again and say okay. So if 320 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: you were to think about what you would normally the 321 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: business would normally spend some of you will have a threshold, 322 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: say one hundred thousand dollars that you can sign off underneath. 323 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 1: Would you be working with something like that? And typically 324 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: you can get some indication of that. Great, thanks, well, 325 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: will work to that, and of course we can refine 326 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: it down the track. So we kind of will push them, 327 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: push them to it. 328 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 2: It's always so tricky. 329 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 3: I find that in sales meetings that no one has 330 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 3: a budget, no. 331 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: So we just will just gently push them till they 332 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 1: commit to normally something. 333 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 3: And with the first half of the sales meeting, like 334 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 3: is that mainly you talking to them, or how interactive 335 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 3: is that when you're going, here are your problems, and 336 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 3: then here are some case studies. 337 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: Essentially, Yeah, I tend to not have it too interactive, 338 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: even though that sounds a bit counterintuitive, because they will 339 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: just hijack it off to oh, let us tell you 340 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 1: about this, and then someone, some well meeting person in 341 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: the room will tell you twenty minutes about one of 342 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,360 Speaker 1: their efficiency problems or where they've used a robot before 343 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: and it didn't work or something like that. So we 344 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: take pretty good control of that first half. They get 345 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: a chance to introduce themselves, say with the thing, and 346 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: then it's a matter of us for that twenty minutes 347 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: to the half hour that we keep them highly engaged, 348 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: keep the pace up, keep it energetic, and then they 349 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: can certainly ask questions, but we wouldn't encourage it at 350 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: that stage. This is our twenty minutes to go. Okay, 351 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: here's what we do, his examples, his use cases, have 352 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: a look at it. 353 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 3: Bang, now we're ready to go okay. Okay, that is counterintuitive. 354 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 3: I feel like so many sales textbooks, so like let 355 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 3: them talk, you know, listen for seventy percent of the meeting, 356 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 3: all those sorts. 357 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: Of things, right, Yeah, I think in our sort of technology, 358 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: which is AI machine learning, often they don't understand what 359 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: it is. So we're in an educating role as well. 360 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: So they've certainly got the back half of the meeting 361 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: to do that, But in the first half of the 362 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: meeting a lot of them all be sitting there going, 363 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: I don't really know what AI is. Is she's talking 364 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: about machine learning or is that supervising? 365 00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: I don't know. Is this like Ivy and Watson or 366 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,640 Speaker 2: like Microsoft? I'm not sure? Is this what my kids 367 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: play with at home? 368 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: And so they'll have a whole bunch of things. So 369 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: really that first bit is less like a pitch and 370 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 1: more like an education session. 371 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 3: Okay, that makes sense, That makes sense. Yeah, I'm kind 372 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 3: of thinking about that for my own work. And yeah, 373 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 3: that's it's interesting because innovation consulting, it's kind of it's 374 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 3: been gaining maturity, I guess, but still there's a great 375 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 3: degree of educating the market as to what Yeah, yeah, 376 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 3: I want to change gears and talk about travel because 377 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 3: you travel a lot. Can you just give listeners an 378 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,919 Speaker 3: indication of just how much time you spend traveling? 379 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 2: Yeah? 380 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, up to last year, I was doing between a 381 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: third to fifty percent of my time in the US, 382 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: and I would fly backward and forth to the Sydney 383 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 1: office to New York office, Sydney, New York offer, so 384 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: I might do three weeks here, two weeks there, four 385 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: weeks here, two weeks there, and go back and forth. 386 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: So I've done that solidly for you know, I've four years. 387 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, okay, tell me your your top travel tip. 388 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 2: Yes. 389 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: So, now it depends on which part of the plane 390 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: you're into, right, So the vast majority of that I was. 391 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: I was not in the pointing of the plane in 392 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: cattle class, which. 393 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 3: I kind of love because I think like as a 394 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 3: CEO of a successful company, you just assume that it's 395 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 3: business class all the way. 396 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 2: But I kind of love that. 397 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 3: I mean, it speaks to the fact that you're a startup. 398 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: And oh yeah, you got to keep it scrapped completely completely. 399 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: And so I have seat forty four A, which is 400 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: which I've kind of worked out on a large airline, 401 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: is about where you want to sit for various reasons 402 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,919 Speaker 1: and wow, yeah, okay, particularly contest of I'm finding New York. 403 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: Seat forty four A is the last row before a gap, 404 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: so and I wanted the window seat so I could 405 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: sort of sleep for the twenty six hours. And so 406 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: instead of waking up people to get climb over them 407 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 1: or and get out to use the restrooms, I could 408 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: just jump over the back of the chair. 409 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 2: A bit to do that. 410 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: Also, it was near where the flight attendants stood, so 411 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,919 Speaker 1: I need anything, I just ask them. Often for whatever reason, 412 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: the seat next to it because it was probably near 413 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: the restrooms, people didn't want that seat so often that 414 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: seat would be baking. So this unnatural level of analysis 415 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: I did really well. I love forty four A and. 416 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 2: Then just kind of manage the way. 417 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: So I also would learn to pack so that I 418 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: didn't have to check luggage in So I've done three 419 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: weeks in a New York winter with roll on luggage. Yeah, 420 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: I know that sounds gross, just with knowing how to 421 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: pack and what to pack. So as much as I 422 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: am a lover of all things natural, when you're traveling 423 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: like that, you do not love natural things. You are 424 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: going for no natural fiber whatsoever in everything that you have, 425 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: because you can shrink it down and roll it out 426 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: to very tiny, tiny little things and then you shake 427 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: it out and who needs an iron? So probably terribly 428 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: not necessarily the most fashionable or it's really good for 429 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: your skin. You can sheve a whole lot in there, 430 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: warm clothes, et cetera, in a roll on bag with 431 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: a carry on bag. 432 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 3: And then are you doing the like the vacuum seal 433 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 3: bags within your suitcase. I got some of them from 434 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 3: Catman do so that I could do the same. 435 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 2: Did you actually ever do it? Such a murder? 436 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: No, but it's a similar sort of thing. So the 437 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: amount that I can get, I can get like thirty 438 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: two items of clothes into just a roll on cake, 439 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: plus two or three pairs of shoes, plus toil the trees, 440 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: all in a roll on. So it's a bit of 441 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,719 Speaker 1: a craft it is. But I say, when you're not 442 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: traveling natural fiber, that's it. You know, cotton will limit 443 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: whatever you like. When you're traveling, just get rid of 444 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: that shit. Just going straight to straight to nylon. 445 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 3: Great, I go what else like on your planety? So 446 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 3: visually sleeping for part of it? I think the flight 447 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,680 Speaker 3: to La leaves at nine or something like that, doesn't it, 448 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 3: So you're kind of in the air for like fourteen hours, 449 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 3: So like how are you dividing that time, like, do 450 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 3: you have a work agender? And then how are you 451 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 3: getting yourself to sleep when it's the middle of the day. 452 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, to be perfectly honest, I do. So 453 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: I've got a very good program around when to sleep 454 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: and when not to sleep, and I can pretty much 455 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: get off the plane in New York go well, you 456 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 1: normally getting there in the afternoon, I'll stay up till 457 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: midnight and then I'm just normal the next day, as 458 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: I would do coming back here. But so here's the secret, 459 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: and it does involved a little bit of Western medicine, 460 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: because I tried all the Eastern medicine does not work. 461 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: Melotone and you know, all sorts of herbal stuff. 462 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 2: None, no, no. 463 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: So I will do a sleeping tablet on the way there, 464 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: and I will normally do that from Sydney to LA 465 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what time of day. Anyone who's a CEO 466 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: or an innovator, you're tied all the time anyway, right, 467 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: So we're. 468 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: Always we're always tired. 469 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: So I would get on there, just get settled in, 470 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: might watch a movie or something, might do a bit 471 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: of work, get it out of the way, and then 472 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: I'll I'll take a sleeping tablet and I'll be out 473 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 1: for eight hours, even in c forty four a outside 474 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: the toilets against the window, I'll do that. And that's 475 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: super important. So the rule on flights is just get 476 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: as much sleep as possible. 477 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: Not to be timing too much. But when am I 478 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 2: getting in and what's the times? I differ. 479 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: It's just sleep as much as you can because you'll 480 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: be it'll be messing when you get off anyway, so 481 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: I would try and crack out eight hours on that 482 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: forty hours ride. 483 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: Then going from LA or San. 484 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: Francisco to New York is actually the most hitious flight 485 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: in the world. Old planes, uncomfortable, bad entertainment or no entertainment, 486 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: and you just pretty much sitting up for five to 487 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,679 Speaker 1: six hours. So I will read, I might listen to 488 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: a podcast, but probably doze a bit if I can, 489 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: but not really because it's it's just a terrible length 490 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: of time, right the five to six hours an hour 491 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: sort of get up an hour to come down three 492 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: hours in the middle is just terrible. So I will 493 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: probably not rely on getting any sleep there, but I 494 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: will I will read, I will listen, I'll meditate, I'll 495 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,439 Speaker 1: write some things up and that's quite nice. And then 496 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 1: when I get off the plane, I'm normally just alive 497 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: and well and happy. And the other thing is a 498 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: state of mind. Even though I've been to New York 499 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: in the last four years, I don't know, fifty times 500 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:28,120 Speaker 1: or something. 501 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: It is such a privilege. I'm so lucky. 502 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: Is such a privilege that I get to travel for job. 503 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: For a job, I get to go to the US. 504 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,280 Speaker 1: New York in particular is an amazing city. And without doubt, 505 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: every time I get off the plane, I'm very grateful 506 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: and very privileged that that's the life that I have, 507 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: in the offortunity they have. And so I get off 508 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: and I. 509 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,120 Speaker 2: Go, Wow, New York. I'm super excited. 510 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: And then of course New York is exciting, so regardless 511 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: of what time I get there's something's going on. Stay awake. 512 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 1: And then I do think it's a state of mind. 513 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: And I do absolutely believe you get travel fitness. It's 514 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 1: like I get up the morning next day, I could 515 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: be going, but I just. 516 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 2: Get up and get on with it and it works. 517 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 3: Wow. And this idea of landing in New York for 518 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 3: the fiftieth time and going Wow, I'm in New York. Like, 519 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 3: how do you, I guess, constantly keep that perspective, like 520 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 3: you mentioned meditation, or like you know, is it just 521 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 3: having gratitude rituals, or like how do you do that? 522 00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I have a family background in philanthropy and 523 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: human rights advocacy, and so I've come from a strong 524 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: background of knowing that life is not flying around on 525 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: planes between countries and living the hard life. I know 526 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: that life is not like that. It's a very few 527 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: of us who get to do that. So my whole perspective, 528 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: even in working in a tech company, is around what 529 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: can I do or build that will change the world 530 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: to be a bit better? Or is human suffering in 531 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: some way? And every day I will just take stock 532 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: of that, why I'm doing it, for what purpose, and 533 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: remember that we're just incredibly lucky that where I am 534 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: what I am, I've been born into, you know, a 535 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: good country without a lot of the disadvantages of other 536 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: underserved communities. And so that's just a daily state of 537 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: mind for me. So I do just remember that every day, actually, 538 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: not even if I'm traveling or not, that I'm just 539 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: very lucky to have these opportunities and majority of people 540 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,159 Speaker 1: will never get them, so there is an obligation on me, 541 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: I believe to create those opportunities through this business and 542 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: through what I do for other people. 543 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 3: And how do you do that? Like is that conscious 544 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 3: on your part? Like is that part of just something 545 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 3: you do or is it just unconsciously in the back 546 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 3: of your mind? Like what does that look like? 547 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: It's definitely unconscious and probably conscious. So unconscious. It's the 548 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 1: way I was brought up, so with a highly onpreneurial 549 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: family who believed that we were to be of service 550 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: to community, to be high achievers so academically and in business. 551 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: But with that came the obligation to be of service 552 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: to community. So that's probably programmed in me. So that's 553 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 1: kind of a natural way I think. And then I 554 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 1: do make sure that I step outside of my bubble 555 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: of startup tech ASX and I have a lot of 556 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: friends who are in philanthropic or not for profits and 557 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: spend time with them and go, oh yeah, actually that's real. 558 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: In fact, as you know, my son Hunter runs the 559 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: Man Cave, which is looking at adolescent mental health and masculinity, 560 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: and some of the stories he tells me about the 561 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: boys that he's dealing with are so tragic that I 562 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: just need to be regularly reminded that that's actually real life, 563 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 1: and what we do is sort of sits on top 564 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: of life. And then my partner, doctor Anna Rubinstein, runs 565 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: writes sage programs for men and boys and now more 566 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: so women and girls, helping people get through the really 567 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: difficult transition phases in their life. So I've surrounded myself 568 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: with very philanthropic people who are almost kind of on 569 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: pay for the polar opposite to what I am or. 570 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 2: What the work that I do. 571 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: But they're a beautiful reminder that you know what life 572 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: is actually about. And I think those of us in 573 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: who are entrepreneurs or innovators, particularly in emerging tech now 574 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 1: have an absolute responsibility to be using that to try 575 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: and facilitate good and the easing of suffering. 576 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, and you mentioned one of your five children 577 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: just then, So there's a lot of kids, and I 578 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 3: know that your youngest two are in their teens. They're 579 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,959 Speaker 3: both in their chains now. They like, how how has 580 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: that balance worked for you? And is like is balanced 581 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 3: believe in as I look like. 582 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 2: No balance, No, I don't believe. 583 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: I believe that it is an old Industrial revolution archetype 584 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: that there is personal life and work life. I just 585 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 1: think this life and work is an integral part of 586 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: that life. And I think for women, work is an 587 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: integral part of life. So whether it's actually work out 588 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 1: of the homework in the home, you know, we're used 589 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: to working with We're good and hard workers. So with 590 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: the way that society is set up, traditional parenting and 591 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: particularly traditional mothering is not at all conducive to being 592 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur trying to build a global business. 593 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 2: It just is really not. 594 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: So I've had to rethink models of parenting and think 595 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: about it in unconventional ways, and in fact, that rolls 596 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: onto thinking of all relationships unconventionally, because if you are 597 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,959 Speaker 1: running a business, doing a startup, there is no way 598 00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: you can do conventionally anything because it's so demanding and 599 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: for you to do it well and to be a 600 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: high achiever, then you will have to put in huge 601 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: amount of hours, huge amount of travel. I love Ben 602 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: Horowitz is the hard thing about hard things. When he 603 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: talks about the struggle, you know you will have to 604 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: go through immense personal and professional and financial struggles. So 605 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: how do you go to KINDI reading group, or go 606 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: on an excursion or attend the Christmas concert. 607 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 2: You're unlikely to do that. 608 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: So I have a model now that around parenting, where 609 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: essentially the kids are on the journey with me and 610 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: the business. So they come to business meetings, they come 611 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: on travel. I take them out of school. They have 612 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: been all over America, They've been to Silicon Valley, they 613 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: spend plenty of time in New York. And they will 614 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: be brought up as unconventional children. Now they may lose 615 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,440 Speaker 1: something a bit academically because I'll be pulling them out 616 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 1: of school a little bit, but they will and I 617 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,200 Speaker 1: know they already have gained huge amount of experience in 618 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: the world. Example, in Indigo has just turned seventeen. I 619 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: put her on a plane in the beginning of December, 620 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: sent her to Mexico to San Miguel to work for 621 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: two months looking after children from underserved communities in a home, 622 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: and then she brought herself back on a plane two 623 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 1: months later. The first night she was away, I rang 624 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: and said, hey, Andy, is everything going well? She said, well, 625 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: there was a guy murdered in the back lane, shot 626 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 1: nine times. We told we you know, we can't go 627 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: out of the of the center tonight. Okay, probably should 628 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: listen to them, But I trusted that she as a 629 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: she was sixteen then to be able to have the 630 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: maturity to navigate herself, to travel all the way there, 631 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: to deal with it, to be responsible to look after herself. 632 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: And she did. 633 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,320 Speaker 1: She did it really exceptionally well. Came back now into 634 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: year twelve a transformed child. So for everything that they 635 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: might lose by not having a really intense traditional parenting, 636 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: I hope that they will gain in being able to 637 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: be free spirits, open minded and build resilience. And I 638 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 1: think I'm learning more and more for we the entrepreneurs 639 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,680 Speaker 1: and the family of the entrepreneurs. Resilience is everything. 640 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 3: You talk about unconventional relationships, and like, something about you 641 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,880 Speaker 3: that I hugely admire is that you seem to know everyone, 642 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 3: And I feel like you have close relationships with an 643 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: infinite number of people, but they're very genuine and I 644 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 3: want to know, like what do you do? And again 645 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 3: I don't know if it's conscious or unconscious, Like to 646 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 3: I feel like you build rapport and relationships with people 647 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 3: more quickly than almost anyone I know, And like how 648 00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:50,000 Speaker 3: do you do that? Oh? 649 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 2: Well, thank you? I appreciate that. 650 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: So for me, because a lot of my time is 651 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: working or away or traveling, when I am with people, 652 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: it's super important for me to be enormously present and 653 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: just listen. That's what I like to do, and I 654 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: really as I'm becoming a more mature leader, this listening 655 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: is what I'm finding is almost the secret to everything. 656 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 1: So for me, it will always be just spend time, 657 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: even if it was ten minutes fifteen minutes, just to 658 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: be entirely present, shut everything else out, and I want 659 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 1: to know about you, and I just want to hear 660 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: about you how you're doing, like a check in, and 661 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,760 Speaker 1: then I'm happy to share something or do an exchange, 662 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: but it really will be around just being entirely present 663 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: and not distracted at all. Even for that ten to 664 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes is probably the equivalent to people going away 665 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: for a weekend and kind of just shooting the shit. 666 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: You can do that in fifteen minutes, And that's enormously 667 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: important to me because the more I learn about technology, 668 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 1: the more I realize. 669 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 2: It's about people. 670 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: So these relationships, to me are actually the most important 671 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: thing in the world. Even though I'm building machines that 672 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 1: potentially replace given relationships. 673 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 3: So I feel like I've been on the receiving end 674 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 3: of that just intense listening that you do where it 675 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 3: feels like I'll do like several months, download to you 676 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 3: in like ten to fifteen minutes, and I feel like 677 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 3: we're caught up, and then you know, I'll get the 678 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 3: same from you. Like I feel like small talk is 679 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 3: not a thing for you, but I want to know 680 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 3: like when you're when you're building those relationships. Like let's 681 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 3: just say you meet someone at an event or a conference, 682 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 3: and I don't know if it's a conscious decision where 683 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 3: you go, I really like this person, I want them 684 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 3: in my kind of group, Like how do you do 685 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 3: that in those initial kind of minutes moments if you like? 686 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think the way that I do that 687 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 1: is certainly I will ask us some a bit about themselves, 688 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: so and not in like a super creepy interview way, 689 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: but just in a kind of a friendly way. 690 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: And I think where's Australians. 691 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: We can get away with that anywhere in the world, right, 692 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: because they just want to hear us talk mainly, and 693 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: we're kind of just you're easy going. So I think 694 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: that that helps particularly overseas, But for me, it will 695 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: be just hearing a bit about the person, maybe the 696 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: job that they do, but also about them personally. So 697 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,439 Speaker 1: I might actually ask a few questions that normal people 698 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: might not ask. Well, okay, so I might say, hey, hey, Mantha, 699 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: how are you? 700 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 2: What do you know? What do you do? Who you with? 701 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: Then you might say, like the CEO of Inventium and 702 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,480 Speaker 1: I go okay, okay, cool, what does you know? What 703 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: do you do there? And what does the business do? 704 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,399 Speaker 1: And you might talk with that and I'll go, oh, 705 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: so interesting, I've got an interest in that, and we'll 706 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: find some connection. And then I might start asking us 707 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: so you know, hey, you know, what else do you do? 708 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,359 Speaker 1: Because you look like a super interesting person, what else 709 00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 1: do you do? And you might go, oh, like I'm 710 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: a snowboard or this is what I'm reading at the moment, 711 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 1: and I'll try and find that there's something personal to 712 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: then take it to, oh, we're actually two normal people 713 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: having a normal people conversation out of the kind of creepy, 714 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: weird business world that we live in. And then I 715 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 1: also just think it's being open. Often I will share 716 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: some things about me. I might even share things that 717 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,919 Speaker 1: are difficult. You might say, you know, I've got young 718 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: Frankie and it's kind of hard being, you know, trying 719 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: to run business and raise kids. And I go, yeah, totally, 720 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: so I know that too, and this is my situation, 721 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 1: and I will probably be quite vulnerable. I can actually, 722 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 1: I just don't mind. I just kind of tell it 723 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: as it is. And it won't with me. It won't 724 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: always be the good news story or everything's going well. 725 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: I'll tell you if something is really sucky in my life. 726 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,759 Speaker 1: And I think it's just that vulnerability, transparency and the 727 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: human connection on something real. It's not just business that 728 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: you can do. And you can do it at events. 729 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 3: Man. 730 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: I go to this big Las Vegas event every year 731 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: that you short take advantage is like ten thousand people, 732 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 1: and I will have like eight thousand friends at the 733 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 1: end of it. 734 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,240 Speaker 2: I will, and I love it. And it's also genuine 735 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 2: for me. 736 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: I'm also not networking because I want to use your 737 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: business opportunity. I actually just probably like people and think 738 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: that you're cool. Everyone's cool, actually, and everyone has a story, 739 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,439 Speaker 1: and I'm pretty interested in there. 740 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 3: Are you natually quite extroverted personality which wise or. 741 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 2: Not at all? 742 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: And it's so interesting. No, so if you do Myers 743 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: brigs something, I'm introverted. And I think so if we 744 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: look at the real definition of that, you know, where 745 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 1: do I find my solace and where do I find 746 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:46,480 Speaker 1: my inspiration? And stuff will be internally just probably yes, 747 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,240 Speaker 1: I say meditation a lot of useless a meditating actually, 748 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: but the eye sort of forms of it. But and 749 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:54,359 Speaker 1: I do need time where I'm just on my own. 750 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,319 Speaker 1: But I've kind of learned to be extroverted, so because 751 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 1: I think you need to need to be both, and 752 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: it certainly needs to be both. 753 00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 2: If you're a. 754 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,680 Speaker 1: Leader trying to change and build new things, you need 755 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,319 Speaker 1: that reflection time. So I love is that Ray Dale 756 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: Oh who talks about pain and reflection. 757 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 2: That's it. And you know pain is probably extroverted. 758 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: You've got out and you've done something hasn't worked, and 759 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 1: you've fucked it up and you've come back, and then 760 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: the reflection time is okay. 761 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 2: I now need to be introverted. I need to just 762 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 2: be on that. 763 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: And I have an expression which I've used with you, 764 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: I know, which is someone might bring us where you know. 765 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:33,239 Speaker 2: Where are you cat go? 766 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 1: I'm the long holo Mirrors you know, I've had to 767 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: go to long Holo mirrors and have a look at 768 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: myself because that didn't work or I messed that up, 769 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: or that failed, and shit, I've got to go and 770 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:46,640 Speaker 1: actually really genuinely see what I did wrong. And I 771 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: love that in the Ben Horowitz book The Hard Things, 772 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 1: where he talks about you know, if you're the CEO 773 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: when things are failing, you know, you're probably blame the market, 774 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: and you're probably blaming the investors, and you're probably blaming employees. 775 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 2: But actually it's you the one is stuffed up and 776 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 2: you're the failure. Actually, yeah, pretty much that's it. 777 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,440 Speaker 1: And so you need to be having introverted part of 778 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: you that can genuinely take that back and get rid 779 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 1: of all the defenses and go, Okay, why isn't this working. 780 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: There's some probably fundamental flaw in me that I need 781 00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,600 Speaker 1: to work on myself in order to fix the business. 782 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:28,080 Speaker 3: Do you like reflect regularly? Is that almost built into 783 00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 3: your routine or is it more something will trigger it 784 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 3: and you'll go, I need to think about that book. 785 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: I look like, yeah, partly it's external because I have 786 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,400 Speaker 1: a lot of people that would like to give me 787 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 1: really really critical feedback all the time. There's some there 788 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: is the board, there are employees, and I set it 789 00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: up that I welcome that feedback. So I think it 790 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: is a super important thing for a leader that you 791 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: have relationships where people can actually say, hey, you did 792 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 1: that that really sucked, you did that that didn't work, 793 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: or going to do that. I think that's going to fail. 794 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: And there's no they don't have apprehension about telling you 795 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: that because you're the leader. So I think I get yeah, 796 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,359 Speaker 1: I get plenty of external fema. But any you know, 797 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: anyone who's running a small company or running a startup, 798 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 1: you know it's ninety nine percent punch in the face 799 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 1: and one percent oh great, someone actually said that I 800 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: did something good or the business achieved something. So it 801 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:28,919 Speaker 1: is pretty much been punched in the face all the time, 802 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: and you have to get used to that, and you 803 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: have to not take it personally, and you have to 804 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,239 Speaker 1: be able to reflect on that, pull it apart. What 805 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: is it that I can learn? 806 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 2: So I did. 807 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:44,000 Speaker 1: I fundamentally believe in the learning mindset and that ties 808 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,279 Speaker 1: to the growth mindset that most innovators and entrepreneurs are 809 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: aware of. But the growth mindset being that everything. 810 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:51,640 Speaker 2: Is just a learning opportunity. 811 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: And if you can turn your business and your stuff 812 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: and yourself into okay, I really you know, fuck that 813 00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: up really badly, or that just didn't work, that failed, 814 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,359 Speaker 1: instead of beating yourself up or people or the business up. 815 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 2: Okay, what did I learn? 816 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: And not in that kind of cliched way, but in 817 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 1: a genuine okay, what can I learn? And I don't 818 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,320 Speaker 1: want to I don't need to feel all the feelings 819 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: of failure all the time if I turn it into 820 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: a learning environment and it just gives you much more 821 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: resilience and inspiration, I think to go, Okay, right, we 822 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,719 Speaker 1: won't be doing that again, but we will do this 823 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: next time. So that learning mindset is a savior for 824 00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: me mentally and emotionally in this business when things are 825 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: so out of control that I've got nothing else other 826 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,439 Speaker 1: than myself and what I can learn. 827 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,279 Speaker 3: And so is that what you're asking yourself when you're 828 00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,240 Speaker 3: getting punched in the face, so to speak? 829 00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 2: Like is that just the reflex? 830 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 3: Now you're like, what can I learn from this? 831 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,759 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? Like is it as simple as that? Well? 832 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: I used to be highly defensive, right, I took everything 833 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: personally and not a big, defend, defend of it. 834 00:42:55,719 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 2: And I'm really good at that. 835 00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm really good at putting at arguments why I didn't 836 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: do anything wrong, the company doing the thing wrong, and 837 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: everyone else there was a problem. And I've learned over 838 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,000 Speaker 1: time that that's just not functional. So I will do 839 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: the same thing. I just listen, just take it, take it, 840 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: take it, take it, take encourage. Okay, tell me more, 841 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:12,879 Speaker 1: tell me more. How we fail out to me before, 842 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 1: how we let you down? Okay, got it, got it, 843 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: got it great. I am going to take that away 844 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,279 Speaker 1: and I'm going to do something with that. And then 845 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 1: I'll run through my own process where initially it'll be 846 00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: all you denial, no, no, no, they don't know, well, 847 00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: there's nothing with me, and then go, okay, yeah, that 848 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: part of what they said is absolutely true, and I'm 849 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: that is not a good thing that I do. That's 850 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: not a good leader behavior, or that's not a good decision. 851 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: And I just need to own that, and I need 852 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: to viscerally own that, and I need to feel it, 853 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 1: and I need to go Okay, got it. Now, Now 854 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: let me start building so I won't do that again, 855 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: or building to fix that problem. 856 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 2: And the more. 857 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: I do work in leadership, and the harder it gets, 858 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 1: the more internal I will go. 859 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 3: In the last few minutes that we've got. Oh, there's 860 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 3: so much I could ask you. I I do want 861 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 3: to ask though, about social media, because I feel like, 862 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 3: you know, in amongst all the negative backlash that is 863 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 3: happening to the social media giants, like you're you know, you're, 864 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 3: You're still like pretty regularly on Facebook, I kind of. 865 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 3: I'll log on for about five minutes a month, and 866 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 3: what is guaranteed is some hilarious posts from you, some 867 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,800 Speaker 3: rubbish from a lot of other people. 868 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 2: Like what's your. 869 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 3: Attitude right now towards social media? What role does it 870 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 3: play for you? 871 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:28,879 Speaker 2: Yeah? 872 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,839 Speaker 1: So it plays only one role really, and that is 873 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: to keep me connected with people that I care about. 874 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, we do a bit in business social media, 875 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: not a lot. You know, our company is not a 876 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: company that necessarily will benefit yet from a huge active 877 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: social media campaigns. And but for me, social media is 878 00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: a connection to people that I care about. So I 879 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: don't have I have like a massive group of friends 880 00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,920 Speaker 1: and in there that's where I'll I'll post, but I'll 881 00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 1: tell I'll try and tell the kind of real stories 882 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,480 Speaker 1: and often like real stories of what's gone wrong, because 883 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,120 Speaker 1: I do a lot in the public media, which is 884 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,399 Speaker 1: all kind of you know, I was gonna say gloss 885 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,319 Speaker 1: and glamor there's nothing glamorous for me, but it's all 886 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's all medium story, story stories. I like 887 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: to just offset that in my own social media channels, 888 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: like like, oh okay, well here's a bit of my 889 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: life that's a bit shit. Or here's me and seat 890 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,520 Speaker 1: forty four A with now chronic hip displays because I've 891 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 1: sat in that fucking chair for so long. 892 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,320 Speaker 2: Here's my children. 893 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: Here are asleep because it's so horribly jetlagged because I've 894 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: dragged them out of school forever, and I just like 895 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 1: to kind of just keep it balanced. But I've got 896 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 1: a general view on digital, which will include social media 897 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,799 Speaker 1: on and a lot of the public speaker I'm doing now. 898 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,279 Speaker 2: It touches on this. Really, digital is starting to fail us. 899 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,360 Speaker 1: In many many ways, so it's not amounted to be 900 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: what it was set out to be as far as 901 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: growth for businesses and other than perhaps online banking, which 902 00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,799 Speaker 1: is pretty awesome, the rest is kind of an average experience. 903 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: We've improved, moved a bit from what was previously on 904 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,360 Speaker 1: phone calls, but not really. So I've had chats with 905 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: CEOs from large main US organizations who've said digital is 906 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 1: failing us. It's now time for something else. And within that, 907 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:21,760 Speaker 1: and I believe that's AI amplifying existing legacy systems, including 908 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:25,760 Speaker 1: digital and augmenting humans, so amplifying augmenters that we talk about. 909 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 1: But social media is part of that digital or strategy. 910 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: So a lot is still very good with it, a 911 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: lot is terrible. I'm very interested in what's going to 912 00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,279 Speaker 1: come beyond that, So we would expect in the next 913 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: year there's going to be some massive blow ups of 914 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,640 Speaker 1: the social media companies, data breaches, cybersecurity, all of that 915 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:51,600 Speaker 1: is it started to happen, and we'll see it. 916 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,760 Speaker 2: We'll see it get really a lot. 917 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: Worse before we then transform into the next era, which 918 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,720 Speaker 1: I think will be a much more around no apps, 919 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: social media, transformation into AI and machine learning based could 920 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,680 Speaker 1: be virtual assistance, could be other types of programs right 921 00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: before we get to the era of transhumanism where we 922 00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: start from bid software our bodies. 923 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:20,200 Speaker 2: But that's a subject for number another day. 924 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 3: And on that note, I feel like we're out of time, 925 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 3: So Kat, thank you so much. Has been fascinating hearing about. 926 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 2: Your life such a pleasure. 927 00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 3: Thanks member, Hello there, Thank you so much for listening 928 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 3: to today's show. 929 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 2: I hope you got some. 930 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 3: Really great insights and tips from my chat with Kat. 931 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 3: I just feel like she's full of great advice and 932 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,440 Speaker 3: I learned something whenever I talk to her. And if 933 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:49,280 Speaker 3: you did enjoy today's show, I would love it if 934 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,520 Speaker 3: you either feel like sharing it on social media or 935 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 3: with maybe some friends or workmates that you think could benefit. 936 00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,800 Speaker 3: And if you're feeling particularly generous, you might want to 937 00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,480 Speaker 3: hop on to it tunes or wherever you listen to 938 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,840 Speaker 3: your podcasts and maybe give the show a review, maybe 939 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,640 Speaker 3: five stars if you're enjoying it. So that is it 940 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,640 Speaker 3: for today's episode, and I will see you next time.