WEBVTT - UNDER THE INFLUENCE: Frank Body Co-Founder Jess Hatzis 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:03.200 You can't just have a great marketing feel and a 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:05.480 great brand. You should have to have a good product 0:00:05.480 --> 0:00:08.920 that people want to come back and use and talk about. Well. 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:11.840 I remember us driving down the coast one day and 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.520 someone sent me a message saying that Jesse j had 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.200 just done an interview talked about frank Body. Someone has 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.640 given it to a birthday and I was blown away 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.079 when I hear people say, like, I've said it to 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.799 tell me who wants suits. Well, if you have a 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:28.760 one in ten track rate, you're going to get one 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.080 of them to quote. So if you want ten people posting, 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:33.839 you need to be settings to one hundred. I think 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.640 we have to create opportunities for them to excel because 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.280 they haven't had them before. We need to address things 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.600 the gender pay that because it's a really big issue 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.120 and a lot of people still keep pretending that it's 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:45.520 not there. 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:52.480 Hello and welcome to Outspoken. Today, you're joined by journalists 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.520 Amy and Sophie Torbert for a very special Under the 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.600 Influence episode. We are excited to be joined by Jess Hatsetts, 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.120 who is one of the co founders of global beauty 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:05.960 brand frank Body. Jess and her business partners from Melbourne 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.640 turned five thousand dollars into a twenty million dollar beauty 0:01:09.680 --> 0:01:12.240 brand that is now sold in over one hundred and 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:17.160 forty one countries. Jess generously shares her insights into business, 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:20.160 how to turn a side hustle into a full time job, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.000 and her views on women in business and why we 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:28.840 should stop using the term female entrepreneur. Thank you so 0:01:28.959 --> 0:01:31.520 much for joining us on Outspoken. We're so excited to 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:34.160 have you as a guest because I suppose you're an 0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:37.840 inspiration to myself and Sophie as both being business owners. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.160 But I suppose a lot of people would be surprised 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.199 to know that yourself and Brie actually started as Red 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:44.240 bull Wings girls. 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:49.720 A hight Daniel share well, Sirs, thank you very much 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:51.760 for having me on the show. It's always lovely to 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.800 talk to some smart and deturmined women. I thank you, 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.520 and yeah we did. We started as Red Bulling's Girls. 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:03.360 UNI studying and so the jobs are only open to 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:08.320 UNI students. And it was, to be honest, like the 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.600 best job you could ever at for a the unique 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:14.120 student because you had very much flexibility and freedom, Like 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:15.880 our job was to get in the car and drive 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.440 around this person who became the best friend all day 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:21.959 give people free red Bull before red Bull had been condemned. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.360 And it was the best marketing and training ground too 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:30.040 because they had a really interesting targeting and segmentation approach. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.720 So you learned a lot about I had to talk 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.519 to different people about the products and different situations, and 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:38.639 I swear I went more there than I do in 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.600 the marketing elements of my degree. 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.720 Wow, And is that where you and Brea became friends 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:45.320 or did you guys know each other before? 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:51.359 That's how we met and we've bonded over I shared 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:55.200 love of writing. We were both studying out studying arts 0:02:55.280 --> 0:02:58.519 commerce and Bree was studying journalism, both with elements of 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.200 creative writing in there. We both just loved it and 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:04.240 kind of loved each other too. That it was just 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:04.720 a b man. 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.280 That's so nice and it's amazing to hear that. That's 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.840 where you guys first sort of came up with your 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:14.680 idea for your first business? Is it? I suppose the 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:16.560 skills that you learned at red Bull, is that what 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:21.480 kind of gave you the confidence to launch your first business. 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.919 I think the people that apply for their job at 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.440 red Bull have a bit of kind of go get 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:31.359 an attitude. You have to be willing to really put 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.440 yourself out there, and I think they're looking for that 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:35.680 in the people that they hire, So I think it's 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:39.160 more that it's somewhat attracts people with that kind of 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:43.280 common element. But it wasn't for a little while that 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.320 we really developed the idea behind our first business, Villa 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.040 and Blake, and it started as it was because we 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.440 really wanted to shared place for all of the things 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.800 that we loved to write. And we both moved on 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.160 from Red Bull as we've graduated from university and I 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:02.240 went in house to the agency called three sixty Agency, 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.840 which was run by Pie Sofo and Grant Smiley. Was 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:08.680 kind of a bit of an offshoot of Want of Music, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:13.840 and re went in house at Broadsheets and probably were 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.480 both working there and writing all of these pieces to 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.680 Willard Blake on the side. And it was after a 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:25.159 while of writing what was blog I guess ten eleven 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:28.400 years ago, and getting a lot of traction and people 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:30.560 really connecting with the stuff that we were writing, because 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:32.440 I think it was there was no bs then. We 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.679 were just trying to find a fresh approach on things. 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.000 People really seemed to connect with it, and the name 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.200 will Blake started to gain a bit of momentum when 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:45.839 we started getting freelance writing requests coming in and that 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.440 was where the idea of turning row on Like blog 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.200 into our first copywriting agency came from. 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:53.920 That is so cool And you guys have worked with 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.880 some amazing brands since. Did you ever think I suppose 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.560 when you first came up with the concept of the 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.360 blog it would grow into what it has become today. 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:09.159 No, like, no idea, And I think that was definitely 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:13.400 part of what allowed us to succeed. We didn't really 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.240 have a plan for what it was. It was very 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.720 much driven by our passion to write and then seeing 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:20.960 the opportunity and sieving it. And I think we had 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.200 like cute pol naivity on our side as well. Like 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.920 I was only twenty three years old, so I didn't 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:30.520 have a concept of really all the things that could 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.080 go wrong and all the realities of running a business. 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.560 It was very much focused on the fact that we 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.960 loved doing that, and I think it was skilled at it. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.919 We really knew how to write creative and engaging copy 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.080 based on all of the different backgrounds that we came from. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.479 We've definitely grown a lot though, as we've gotten older, 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.479 and I look back at the things that I've wrote 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.920 and the decisions I made a twenty three year old 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.680 version of myself and can't work out what I was thinking. 0:05:58.000 --> 0:06:00.960 It can't be so disturbing. Can't it read old work? 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:02.799 You're like, oh my gosh. 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.440 What And you guys, you would know this, Like you 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:08.000 look back on stuff you created when you're younger, and 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.160 it's like, wow, so I knew everything and that absolutely 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.960 knew nothing and it's cringed girthing and it's driven by 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:17.640 trends at the time, And that's that kind of awareness 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.440 only comes with age and experience. 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.760 I think, yeah, And I suppose the thing is as well. 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.240 At the same time, sometimes when you're beginning of business, 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.000 I feel like a lot of the time you get 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.719 advice to just get started and go with what you've got. 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:31.680 So it's yeah, it is. It's interesting because I feel 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:33.760 like a lot of young girls ask us about starting 0:06:33.800 --> 0:06:35.640 a business, and sometimes you just have to go with 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:37.920 what you've gotten, hope for the best, and put in 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:39.719 your best effort with it, which I suppose is what 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.359 you guys did. And you've grown so much with that. 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.960 I completely agree. I think you need to at have 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.960 a rough idea of why you're doing it. And even 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:53.599 though we didn't know we were going to grow Willow 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:56.000 into what it is and then eventually start Flank, we 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:58.360 knew that we wanted to write really good copy. We 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:01.200 knew there was a gap in the market, but we 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.560 were by no means perfect, and we just had to 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:05.599 get out there and start trying. And I think the 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.279 best thing you can do is learn from feedback, and 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.600 a lot of people are very scared at feedback, which 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:14.320 is they think to feedback is criticism, and people need 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:17.280 to really understand how to differentiate between the two, and 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.480 that even criticism can be really positive because you don't 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:23.440 really learn and grow from people just telling you that 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:25.760 you're good at stuff. You run and grow from people 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.880 showing you your area of weakness and where you can improve. 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.760 So if you're going to even think about starting the business, 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:33.760 you how to be really open minded about that sort 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:34.200 of stuff. 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.239 That's such a good point. And talking about Frank Body, 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.000 I personally love the story of how it started and 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.119 the fact that it was actually your yours and Breeze 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.120 side hustle. Can you test I supposed to fill our 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.560 listeners into how the concept actually started. 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.680 Yeah, well, there's quite a few of us involved, and 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.800 even were originally had another business partner who then moved 0:07:56.840 --> 0:08:00.640 on a couple of years ago, and faink Body really 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.040 came out of the combination of a few ideas. So 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:09.240 at Willow we were really, i kept quite experienced by 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.960 that stage in the idea of creating brands, marketing them, 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.080 launching new products, and we were doing this work for 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:20.560 everybody else and things are going really well. But what 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:23.200 we noticed was that some client, even though they came 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:26.440 to will and Blake for someone out of the box 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.760 esoteric ideas, when they were put in front of them, 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.600 they weren't always willing to execute them because those risky 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.320 ideas are a little bit scary. You have to really 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.840 take a chance. We knew that if we could have 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.439 full creative control over a brand and the product and 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.520 the direction that we took for marketing, we could achieve 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.840 something really great. And this is really on the cusp 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.760 of Instagram launching, and it wasn't being utilized by brands 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.720 at that stage, and they thought there's this community of 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:59.200 people there who are willing and waiting to have content 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:03.800 served to them and different you know, I guess experiment 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.680 with creating content themselves, like this platform is right for 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.880 a brand to use, But we had no product. At 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.760 the same time, our business partners, being and Alex were 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.199 really interested in moving into the product space. It was 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.280 everything that we were doing with service space. So we 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.560 had this issue of scalability. It was the real we 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:25.760 can't do more than a physical man hours that we 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:30.199 haven't available to us. It's just definitely the ear comments 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:31.760 with the group, and he was the one that really 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:33.920 wanted to push us to do something that we would 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.560 be primarily a dot com business. And then it would 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.960 be who owns a series of cafes in Melbourne who 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.320 actually came up with the product idea. He was surrounded 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.400 by coffees all day and seeing people come in and 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.000 ask for the leftover grind from his machines for all 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:52.760 different reasons, and this one idea stuck. And then we 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.920 did a lot of research and it wasn't anything called 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.160 a coffee scrub in the market. It was just DIY 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:01.319 recipes at home. And what noticed was that if you 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:03.800 use left over coffee grinds, it didn't actually have a 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.080 huge amount of benefit because of caffeine was in a 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:09.880 couple of coffee. So we started making like this little 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:13.960 batches based on whatever we had in the kitchen, making 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.760 sure that it was really highly caffeinated and using fresh 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.719 grinds and got in the shower and covered ourselves in 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:23.600 this stuff that wouldn't difference. I'll never forget it, and 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.040 no matter how often I talk about it, it still 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.160 is like the strongest memory in my head because I 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:32.480 felt so ridiculous. But when we went to off it 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:36.360 was incredible, and you would remember, you know, body washes 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:38.320 that you could buy at the season market even now 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:40.960 they're even more so teen years ago that we're just 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:43.480 gel with like a couple of beds growing in like 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.480 there's nothing we don't scrub. This is Stokes with a 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:48.160 couple of boobs thrown in. And I was like, I'm 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.120 trying to remove sate pan or if I've got really 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.960 draged skin, this isn't going to cut it. This is 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:57.400 a hardcore scrub. And I had a little incredible benefits 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.720 for things like stretch marks x amount to rise the 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.600 imm and body acne. And when you saw this great 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:07.960 product that was one hundred percent natural, we could make 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.680 really affordably to awful women a product that given cross 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.319 them and arm and a leg and actually worked for 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:16.520 and then market it through social So it all kind 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.079 of came together, and that's how Frank Bodying and the 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:20.400 original Coffee Good performed. 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:22.600 I love the fact that you said that you were 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.360 a bit mortified when you first put the product on yourself, 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.720 because I suppose when you're now it's marketed so beautifully. 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.240 Obviously people want to take photos of themselves with the 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.160 Frank body scrub, and it's I just find that so 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.360 interesting that it's become such a huge part of your 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:39.600 marketing to have people take photos. But initially you were 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.200 sort of mortified by it. 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.240 Yeah, and we had clients, you know, working in the 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.520 health and beauty space, where we pitched the idea of 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.520 trying to get up generated content. People looked at it 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:55.800 up that we had two heads. But where it's now, 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.360 marketing has been issued since the beginning of time. It 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:01.680 just takes different shapes and forms as different meetings and 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:07.600 technologies and cultural nuances changed, and people seemed to forget that. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.680 And it was the age of moving out of celebrity 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:15.360 endorsements into having real people take over and utilize those 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:18.760 channels and sots. It just seemed normal if you could 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.640 make it cool and show people that they were part 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:26.080 of a trendsetting movement and that they were early adopters, 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.160 because I think that's always something that we like. We 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.560 always like being ahead of a trend and showing people 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:32.959 what's cool and what's new. So it's just giving them 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:35.040 the tools to be able to do that. But yeah, 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.880 it was. It was us to the start, like they 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:43.960 were my legs and breed legs and not Alex and Steve. Yeah, 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.760 it was quite normalized the behavior. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:47.840 And who were some of the first big names that 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.000 you did start working with. 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:56.120 Oh, that's a really good question. We didn't like formally 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.360 engage any influencers for actually quite a few years. Everything 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.440 that the start was all organic seeding and so me 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.520 free and airy built lists. I'm not kidding, like thousands 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:12.040 of people wrong and just emailing and emailing, emailing and 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.000 getting their addresses and sending the products and sending spiels 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:16.800 about it and why we would love them to try 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:18.600 it and if they liked it, to share it. And 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.360 it was so many hours of work less days and 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:26.120 weeks of just doing that stuff. So that was our approach, 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:30.240 and it naturally and organically as much as you can 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:34.640 call it organically, from several hundred hours of work through 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.040 from there, we just knew that was what we needed 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.959 to do. And when I hear people say, like I 0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:42.760 spend it to ten man who months to school, if 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:44.760 you have a one in ten strike rate, you're going 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:46.360 to get one of them to post. So if you 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.320 want ten people posting, you need to be sending it 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.840 to one hundred and really trying to drive that volume 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.400 mentality to everything that people were doing. And then I 0:13:56.400 --> 0:14:00.840 think some of the first big organic mentions that we 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.640 got from people jesse J that would be credible. I 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.960 remember us driving down the coast one day and someone 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.320 sent me a message saying that jesse J had just 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.840 done an interview talked about Frank Body, someone who has 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.720 given it jest day, and I was blown away. And 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.960 then the same thing happened with Ariana Grande. She did 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.520 a YouTube and did all these press articles talking about 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:24.960 the original coffee scrub, and we had never given it 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:27.160 to these people, but it just sort of somehow found 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:27.880 its way for them. 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:29.760 So it's an amazing product. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.880 It is, I think it's testiment to the product, and 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.200 I think people forget about that. You can't just have 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.960 a great marketing feel and a great brand. It should 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:42.960 have to have a good product so people want to 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:44.520 come back and use and talk about. 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.840 So when Ariana Grande, for example, did mention Frank Body 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.280 on YouTube, what kind of impact did that have because 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:54.680 you hear of I mean, it's often hard to measure 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.080 the impact of influencers, but I'm guessing you might have 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.520 had a few people purchased the product after that. 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:06.360 It's hard to track it directly because we were doing 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.240 so much influencer work at the time. I think the 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.560 impact that I can contribute to that is that it 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.760 made other influences really willing to talk about the product 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.760 because it was now not just some unknown Australian brand. 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.600 It was still unknown Australian brand that had been endorsed 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.680 by Ariana Grande. So they were then associated with Perch 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.520 and it kind of dated that credibility to. 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:34.040 Coolness and Arianna turned from big fan to I hear competitor. 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.520 Well, yeah, she's a smart woman, so she was working 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:43.520 at I don't think it exists anymore, but I do 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.760 remember seeing that and yeah, it's hurt a little bit. 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.400 We've had so many people's copy of the brand of 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.800 Lost Track. There would have been dozens of copytats by now, 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.080 and I am really family the way the competition is 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.720 healthy because I think that it makes you stay under 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.160 toe is it makes you innovate. But I think there's 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:06.280 a difference between competition and copycats, and so that's right 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.480 I set to draw the line. But as far as 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.600 I went, I don't think that her that brand Ari 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:14.480 the coffee stubcs is anymore. 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:20.040 Oh well, we can see who won that round then. Obviously, 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.800 for people who are launching a product now in twenty nineteen, 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.200 do you think influencer marketing is still as I suppose 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.840 successful and has as much power and reach as it 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:31.920 did when you guys first launched Frank. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:36.680 Body, I think it's very different now. It definitely still 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.680 has a lot of impact and a lot of power. 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:46.680 It's much more contrived and calculated now, but that's just 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.280 the nature of the platform. And that's if we're talking 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:54.360 specifically about Instagram the platform. When we launched with organic 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.760 there was no advertising, there was no speed, but everything 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.320 that you saw you took as one hundred percent for authentic, 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.240 but now it's consumers. We know that a lot of 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.919 content is sponsored. We don't know it's things genuine, but 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:09.760 it's still really helps to increase brand awareness. And then 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:12.879 consumers now can go and do their own research after 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.600 they see something that the influence is posted. Rather than 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.160 that's sort of see and buy impact that we saw 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.720 a few years ago, it's now c and research. I 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.520 think that's there are different platforms to utilize in different ways, 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.639 and that's how we look at things like Instagram specifically. 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:30.440 But then if you look at new platforms that are 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:35.320 emerging like TikTok, which is still relatively unregulated, then it's 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:37.400 a whole new ballgame. And the way that we work 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.119 with influencers and what we expect to see from influences 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.560 on a platform like that, it's really different. Yeah. 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.440 And do you think I mean you hear these crazy 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.119 amounts that some influences are being paid. I think I 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:51.159 heard some somewhere that someone like Michael Finch might be 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:54.160 getting around sixty K for a mention in a YouTube video. 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:58.480 Do you think that they're worth it? Are they worth 0:17:58.520 --> 0:17:59.119 sixty k? 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.800 I think it really depends on the influencerf they work 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.159 really hard, over a really long period of time to 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.840 build up those followings, and it's so easy for us 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:11.760 to just dismiss it as like, oh, maybe let's take 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:14.720 photos that they're face. Sometimes that's what they do, but 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.199 they do it like gay in and gay out, and 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.600 the obviously create content that hundreds of thousands or millions 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:22.080 of people want to follow it. So I have to 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.919 kill kudos where kudos is due. Where I think the 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.600 issue is with the influencers who don't want to be 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.960 accountable for the ROI or don't want to learn how 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:35.720 to play ball with brands and make it make sure 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:39.400 that all that sixty thousand dollars there's actually measurable benefits, 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:44.200 and like any other advertising platform, that is something that 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.080 should be a part of it. So I would nevered 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:48.679 by like if you buy advertising in a magazine, it 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.480 comes with a rate card, and it comes with expected impressions, 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:56.800 expected lifting XLIZB. So you can always measure it. And 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.800 I think why brands become hegotant to work with in 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.920 Wanted because they see these locky feeds, but there's never 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:07.400 any kind of way for them to, you know, somewhat 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.720 accurately estimate whether it's going to be positive for the business, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.480 or if they're just going to set without middle of empire. 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:16.400 That's so interesting. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:21.399 Yeah, I think it's it's got to be a bit 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:22.960 of back and forth and then there's got to be 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.919 accountability on both sides for it to be a business deal. 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.320 But really is beneficial for everyone involved? 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.200 Yeah, because I mean it is crazy to think there 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.119 are some huge influencers out there who might still be 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:40.199 managing themselves and might not understand just how serious the 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.200 business side of it is. Do you think that that's 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.480 where some influencers are lacking they as you said, they 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:50.320 don't have that business brain and are just managing things themselves. 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:55.080 I think that a lot of influences are incredibly entrepreneurial 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.720 and they're smart, and they've seen a trend and jumped 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.119 on it. It's going there's both ways. I mean, there 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:03.439 are some managers that make things more difficult and the 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.240 influencers themselves easier to deal with. So I think it's 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:12.240 just a real person by person sort of situation, and 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.400 I think it's easier to forget as much as you're 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.760 then looking at it as as a transaction occurring. Right, 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.560 we're paying people for content. We have an expectation about 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.760 what that content does, but they're also a human and 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:26.920 on the other end, and making sure that you build 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.520 relationships with people is really important. I'm so lucky that 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.240 I have amazing team members here who do that and 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:35.879 they understand the value of that, and they are building 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.240 those connections with relationships with influencers day in and day out, 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.840 just like we did in the world of TV or 0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:49.199 traditional print advertising. It's that kind of fundamental component that 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:53.399 makes it work, I think all for anyone, it's just 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:55.840 knowing what you don't know and trying to see what 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.080 your blind spots are and again and getting feedback. So 0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.600