1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: You can't just have a great marketing feel and a 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: great brand. You should have to have a good product 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: that people want to come back and use and talk about. Well. 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: I remember us driving down the coast one day and 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: someone sent me a message saying that Jesse j had 6 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: just done an interview talked about frank Body. Someone has 7 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: given it to a birthday and I was blown away 8 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: when I hear people say, like, I've said it to 9 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: tell me who wants suits. Well, if you have a 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: one in ten track rate, you're going to get one 11 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: of them to quote. So if you want ten people posting, 12 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: you need to be settings to one hundred. I think 13 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: we have to create opportunities for them to excel because 14 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: they haven't had them before. We need to address things 15 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: the gender pay that because it's a really big issue 16 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: and a lot of people still keep pretending that it's 17 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: not there. 18 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,480 Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Outspoken. Today, you're joined by journalists 19 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: Amy and Sophie Torbert for a very special Under the 20 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: Influence episode. We are excited to be joined by Jess Hatsetts, 21 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: who is one of the co founders of global beauty 22 00:01:02,120 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: brand frank Body. Jess and her business partners from Melbourne 23 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: turned five thousand dollars into a twenty million dollar beauty 24 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: brand that is now sold in over one hundred and 25 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: forty one countries. Jess generously shares her insights into business, 26 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 2: how to turn a side hustle into a full time job, 27 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: and her views on women in business and why we 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: should stop using the term female entrepreneur. Thank you so 29 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: much for joining us on Outspoken. We're so excited to 30 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: have you as a guest because I suppose you're an 31 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 2: inspiration to myself and Sophie as both being business owners. 32 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: But I suppose a lot of people would be surprised 33 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 2: to know that yourself and Brie actually started as Red 34 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: bull Wings girls. 35 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: A hight Daniel share well, Sirs, thank you very much 36 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: for having me on the show. It's always lovely to 37 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: talk to some smart and deturmined women. I thank you, 38 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: and yeah we did. We started as Red Bulling's Girls. 39 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: UNI studying and so the jobs are only open to 40 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: UNI students. And it was, to be honest, like the 41 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: best job you could ever at for a the unique 42 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: student because you had very much flexibility and freedom, Like 43 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: our job was to get in the car and drive 44 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: around this person who became the best friend all day 45 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: give people free red Bull before red Bull had been condemned. 46 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: And it was the best marketing and training ground too 47 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: because they had a really interesting targeting and segmentation approach. 48 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: So you learned a lot about I had to talk 49 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: to different people about the products and different situations, and 50 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: I swear I went more there than I do in 51 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: the marketing elements of my degree. 52 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: Wow, And is that where you and Brea became friends 53 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 2: or did you guys know each other before? 54 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: That's how we met and we've bonded over I shared 55 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: love of writing. We were both studying out studying arts 56 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,519 Speaker 1: commerce and Bree was studying journalism, both with elements of 57 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: creative writing in there. We both just loved it and 58 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: kind of loved each other too. That it was just 59 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: a b man. 60 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: That's so nice and it's amazing to hear that. That's 61 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: where you guys first sort of came up with your 62 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 2: idea for your first business? Is it? I suppose the 63 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: skills that you learned at red Bull, is that what 64 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: kind of gave you the confidence to launch your first business. 65 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,919 Speaker 1: I think the people that apply for their job at 66 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: red Bull have a bit of kind of go get 67 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,359 Speaker 1: an attitude. You have to be willing to really put 68 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: yourself out there, and I think they're looking for that 69 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: in the people that they hire, So I think it's 70 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: more that it's somewhat attracts people with that kind of 71 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: common element. But it wasn't for a little while that 72 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: we really developed the idea behind our first business, Villa 73 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: and Blake, and it started as it was because we 74 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: really wanted to shared place for all of the things 75 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: that we loved to write. And we both moved on 76 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: from Red Bull as we've graduated from university and I 77 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: went in house to the agency called three sixty Agency, 78 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: which was run by Pie Sofo and Grant Smiley. Was 79 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: kind of a bit of an offshoot of Want of Music, 80 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: and re went in house at Broadsheets and probably were 81 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: both working there and writing all of these pieces to 82 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: Willard Blake on the side. And it was after a 83 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 1: while of writing what was blog I guess ten eleven 84 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: years ago, and getting a lot of traction and people 85 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: really connecting with the stuff that we were writing, because 86 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: I think it was there was no bs then. We 87 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,679 Speaker 1: were just trying to find a fresh approach on things. 88 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: People really seemed to connect with it, and the name 89 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: will Blake started to gain a bit of momentum when 90 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: we started getting freelance writing requests coming in and that 91 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: was where the idea of turning row on Like blog 92 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: into our first copywriting agency came from. 93 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 2: That is so cool And you guys have worked with 94 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: some amazing brands since. Did you ever think I suppose 95 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 2: when you first came up with the concept of the 96 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: blog it would grow into what it has become today. 97 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: No, like, no idea, And I think that was definitely 98 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: part of what allowed us to succeed. We didn't really 99 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: have a plan for what it was. It was very 100 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: much driven by our passion to write and then seeing 101 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: the opportunity and sieving it. And I think we had 102 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: like cute pol naivity on our side as well. Like 103 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: I was only twenty three years old, so I didn't 104 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: have a concept of really all the things that could 105 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: go wrong and all the realities of running a business. 106 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: It was very much focused on the fact that we 107 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: loved doing that, and I think it was skilled at it. 108 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 1: We really knew how to write creative and engaging copy 109 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: based on all of the different backgrounds that we came from. 110 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: We've definitely grown a lot though, as we've gotten older, 111 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: and I look back at the things that I've wrote 112 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: and the decisions I made a twenty three year old 113 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: version of myself and can't work out what I was thinking. 114 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: It can't be so disturbing. Can't it read old work? 115 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,799 Speaker 2: You're like, oh my gosh. 116 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: What And you guys, you would know this, Like you 117 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: look back on stuff you created when you're younger, and 118 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: it's like, wow, so I knew everything and that absolutely 119 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: knew nothing and it's cringed girthing and it's driven by 120 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: trends at the time, And that's that kind of awareness 121 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: only comes with age and experience. 122 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, And I suppose the thing is as well. 123 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: At the same time, sometimes when you're beginning of business, 124 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of the time you get 125 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,719 Speaker 2: advice to just get started and go with what you've got. 126 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 2: So it's yeah, it is. It's interesting because I feel 127 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: like a lot of young girls ask us about starting 128 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: a business, and sometimes you just have to go with 129 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: what you've gotten, hope for the best, and put in 130 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: your best effort with it, which I suppose is what 131 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 2: you guys did. And you've grown so much with that. 132 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: I completely agree. I think you need to at have 133 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: a rough idea of why you're doing it. And even 134 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,599 Speaker 1: though we didn't know we were going to grow Willow 135 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: into what it is and then eventually start Flank, we 136 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: knew that we wanted to write really good copy. We 137 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: knew there was a gap in the market, but we 138 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: were by no means perfect, and we just had to 139 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: get out there and start trying. And I think the 140 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 1: best thing you can do is learn from feedback, and 141 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: a lot of people are very scared at feedback, which 142 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: is they think to feedback is criticism, and people need 143 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: to really understand how to differentiate between the two, and 144 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: that even criticism can be really positive because you don't 145 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 1: really learn and grow from people just telling you that 146 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: you're good at stuff. You run and grow from people 147 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: showing you your area of weakness and where you can improve. 148 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: So if you're going to even think about starting the business, 149 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: you how to be really open minded about that sort 150 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: of stuff. 151 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,239 Speaker 2: That's such a good point. And talking about Frank Body, 152 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: I personally love the story of how it started and 153 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,119 Speaker 2: the fact that it was actually your yours and Breeze 154 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: side hustle. Can you test I supposed to fill our 155 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: listeners into how the concept actually started. 156 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's quite a few of us involved, and 157 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: even were originally had another business partner who then moved 158 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: on a couple of years ago, and faink Body really 159 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: came out of the combination of a few ideas. So 160 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: at Willow we were really, i kept quite experienced by 161 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: that stage in the idea of creating brands, marketing them, 162 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: launching new products, and we were doing this work for 163 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: everybody else and things are going really well. But what 164 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: we noticed was that some client, even though they came 165 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: to will and Blake for someone out of the box 166 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: esoteric ideas, when they were put in front of them, 167 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: they weren't always willing to execute them because those risky 168 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: ideas are a little bit scary. You have to really 169 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: take a chance. We knew that if we could have 170 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: full creative control over a brand and the product and 171 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: the direction that we took for marketing, we could achieve 172 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: something really great. And this is really on the cusp 173 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: of Instagram launching, and it wasn't being utilized by brands 174 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: at that stage, and they thought there's this community of 175 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: people there who are willing and waiting to have content 176 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: served to them and different you know, I guess experiment 177 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,680 Speaker 1: with creating content themselves, like this platform is right for 178 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: a brand to use, But we had no product. At 179 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: the same time, our business partners, being and Alex were 180 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: really interested in moving into the product space. It was 181 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: everything that we were doing with service space. So we 182 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: had this issue of scalability. It was the real we 183 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: can't do more than a physical man hours that we 184 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: haven't available to us. It's just definitely the ear comments 185 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: with the group, and he was the one that really 186 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: wanted to push us to do something that we would 187 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: be primarily a dot com business. And then it would 188 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: be who owns a series of cafes in Melbourne who 189 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: actually came up with the product idea. He was surrounded 190 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: by coffees all day and seeing people come in and 191 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 1: ask for the leftover grind from his machines for all 192 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: different reasons, and this one idea stuck. And then we 193 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: did a lot of research and it wasn't anything called 194 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: a coffee scrub in the market. It was just DIY 195 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 1: recipes at home. And what noticed was that if you 196 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: use left over coffee grinds, it didn't actually have a 197 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: huge amount of benefit because of caffeine was in a 198 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: couple of coffee. So we started making like this little 199 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: batches based on whatever we had in the kitchen, making 200 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: sure that it was really highly caffeinated and using fresh 201 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 1: grinds and got in the shower and covered ourselves in 202 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: this stuff that wouldn't difference. I'll never forget it, and 203 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: no matter how often I talk about it, it still 204 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: is like the strongest memory in my head because I 205 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: felt so ridiculous. But when we went to off it 206 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: was incredible, and you would remember, you know, body washes 207 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: that you could buy at the season market even now 208 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 1: they're even more so teen years ago that we're just 209 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: gel with like a couple of beds growing in like 210 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 1: there's nothing we don't scrub. This is Stokes with a 211 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: couple of boobs thrown in. And I was like, I'm 212 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: trying to remove sate pan or if I've got really 213 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: draged skin, this isn't going to cut it. This is 214 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: a hardcore scrub. And I had a little incredible benefits 215 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: for things like stretch marks x amount to rise the 216 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: imm and body acne. And when you saw this great 217 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: product that was one hundred percent natural, we could make 218 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: really affordably to awful women a product that given cross 219 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: them and arm and a leg and actually worked for 220 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: and then market it through social So it all kind 221 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 1: of came together, and that's how Frank Bodying and the 222 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: original Coffee Good performed. 223 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: I love the fact that you said that you were 224 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 2: a bit mortified when you first put the product on yourself, 225 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 2: because I suppose when you're now it's marketed so beautifully. 226 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 2: Obviously people want to take photos of themselves with the 227 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: Frank body scrub, and it's I just find that so 228 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: interesting that it's become such a huge part of your 229 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: marketing to have people take photos. But initially you were 230 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 2: sort of mortified by it. 231 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we had clients, you know, working in the 232 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: health and beauty space, where we pitched the idea of 233 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: trying to get up generated content. People looked at it 234 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: up that we had two heads. But where it's now, 235 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 1: marketing has been issued since the beginning of time. It 236 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: just takes different shapes and forms as different meetings and 237 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: technologies and cultural nuances changed, and people seemed to forget that. 238 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: And it was the age of moving out of celebrity 239 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: endorsements into having real people take over and utilize those 240 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: channels and sots. It just seemed normal if you could 241 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: make it cool and show people that they were part 242 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: of a trendsetting movement and that they were early adopters, 243 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: because I think that's always something that we like. We 244 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 1: always like being ahead of a trend and showing people 245 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: what's cool and what's new. So it's just giving them 246 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: the tools to be able to do that. But yeah, 247 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: it was. It was us to the start, like they 248 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: were my legs and breed legs and not Alex and Steve. Yeah, 249 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: it was quite normalized the behavior. 250 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: And who were some of the first big names that 251 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: you did start working with. 252 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: Oh, that's a really good question. We didn't like formally 253 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 1: engage any influencers for actually quite a few years. Everything 254 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: that the start was all organic seeding and so me 255 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: free and airy built lists. I'm not kidding, like thousands 256 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: of people wrong and just emailing and emailing, emailing and 257 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: getting their addresses and sending the products and sending spiels 258 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: about it and why we would love them to try 259 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 1: it and if they liked it, to share it. And 260 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: it was so many hours of work less days and 261 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: weeks of just doing that stuff. So that was our approach, 262 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: and it naturally and organically as much as you can 263 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: call it organically, from several hundred hours of work through 264 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: from there, we just knew that was what we needed 265 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: to do. And when I hear people say, like I 266 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: spend it to ten man who months to school, if 267 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: you have a one in ten strike rate, you're going 268 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: to get one of them to post. So if you 269 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,320 Speaker 1: want ten people posting, you need to be sending it 270 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,840 Speaker 1: to one hundred and really trying to drive that volume 271 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: mentality to everything that people were doing. And then I 272 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: think some of the first big organic mentions that we 273 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: got from people jesse J that would be credible. I 274 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: remember us driving down the coast one day and someone 275 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: sent me a message saying that jesse J had just 276 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 1: done an interview talked about Frank Body, someone who has 277 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: given it jest day, and I was blown away. And 278 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: then the same thing happened with Ariana Grande. She did 279 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: a YouTube and did all these press articles talking about 280 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: the original coffee scrub, and we had never given it 281 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: to these people, but it just sort of somehow found 282 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: its way for them. 283 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 2: So it's an amazing product. 284 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: It is, I think it's testiment to the product, and 285 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 1: I think people forget about that. You can't just have 286 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: a great marketing feel and a great brand. It should 287 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: have to have a good product so people want to 288 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: come back and use and talk about. 289 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: So when Ariana Grande, for example, did mention Frank Body 290 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 2: on YouTube, what kind of impact did that have because 291 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 2: you hear of I mean, it's often hard to measure 292 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 2: the impact of influencers, but I'm guessing you might have 293 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 2: had a few people purchased the product after that. 294 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: It's hard to track it directly because we were doing 295 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: so much influencer work at the time. I think the 296 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: impact that I can contribute to that is that it 297 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: made other influences really willing to talk about the product 298 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: because it was now not just some unknown Australian brand. 299 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: It was still unknown Australian brand that had been endorsed 300 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: by Ariana Grande. So they were then associated with Perch 301 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: and it kind of dated that credibility to. 302 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 2: Coolness and Arianna turned from big fan to I hear competitor. 303 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, she's a smart woman, so she was working 304 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: at I don't think it exists anymore, but I do 305 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: remember seeing that and yeah, it's hurt a little bit. 306 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: We've had so many people's copy of the brand of 307 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: Lost Track. There would have been dozens of copytats by now, 308 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: and I am really family the way the competition is 309 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: healthy because I think that it makes you stay under 310 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: toe is it makes you innovate. But I think there's 311 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: a difference between competition and copycats, and so that's right 312 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: I set to draw the line. But as far as 313 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: I went, I don't think that her that brand Ari 314 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: the coffee stubcs is anymore. 315 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 2: Oh well, we can see who won that round then. Obviously, 316 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 2: for people who are launching a product now in twenty nineteen, 317 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 2: do you think influencer marketing is still as I suppose 318 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: successful and has as much power and reach as it 319 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 2: did when you guys first launched Frank. 320 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: Body, I think it's very different now. It definitely still 321 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: has a lot of impact and a lot of power. 322 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: It's much more contrived and calculated now, but that's just 323 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: the nature of the platform. And that's if we're talking 324 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: specifically about Instagram the platform. When we launched with organic 325 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: there was no advertising, there was no speed, but everything 326 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: that you saw you took as one hundred percent for authentic, 327 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: but now it's consumers. We know that a lot of 328 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 1: content is sponsored. We don't know it's things genuine, but 329 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: it's still really helps to increase brand awareness. And then 330 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: consumers now can go and do their own research after 331 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: they see something that the influence is posted. Rather than 332 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: that's sort of see and buy impact that we saw 333 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: a few years ago, it's now c and research. I 334 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: think that's there are different platforms to utilize in different ways, 335 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: and that's how we look at things like Instagram specifically. 336 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: But then if you look at new platforms that are 337 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: emerging like TikTok, which is still relatively unregulated, then it's 338 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: a whole new ballgame. And the way that we work 339 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: with influencers and what we expect to see from influences 340 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: on a platform like that, it's really different. Yeah. 341 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 2: And do you think I mean you hear these crazy 342 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 2: amounts that some influences are being paid. I think I 343 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 2: heard some somewhere that someone like Michael Finch might be 344 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 2: getting around sixty K for a mention in a YouTube video. 345 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 2: Do you think that they're worth it? Are they worth 346 00:17:58,520 --> 00:17:59,119 Speaker 2: sixty k? 347 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: I think it really depends on the influencerf they work 348 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: really hard, over a really long period of time to 349 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: build up those followings, and it's so easy for us 350 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: to just dismiss it as like, oh, maybe let's take 351 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: photos that they're face. Sometimes that's what they do, but 352 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: they do it like gay in and gay out, and 353 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: the obviously create content that hundreds of thousands or millions 354 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: of people want to follow it. So I have to 355 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: kill kudos where kudos is due. Where I think the 356 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: issue is with the influencers who don't want to be 357 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: accountable for the ROI or don't want to learn how 358 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: to play ball with brands and make it make sure 359 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: that all that sixty thousand dollars there's actually measurable benefits, 360 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: and like any other advertising platform, that is something that 361 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: should be a part of it. So I would nevered 362 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: by like if you buy advertising in a magazine, it 363 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: comes with a rate card, and it comes with expected impressions, 364 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: expected lifting XLIZB. So you can always measure it. And 365 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: I think why brands become hegotant to work with in 366 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: Wanted because they see these locky feeds, but there's never 367 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,400 Speaker 1: any kind of way for them to, you know, somewhat 368 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: accurately estimate whether it's going to be positive for the business, 369 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: or if they're just going to set without middle of empire. 370 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 2: That's so interesting. 371 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's it's got to be a bit 372 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: of back and forth and then there's got to be 373 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: accountability on both sides for it to be a business deal. 374 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: But really is beneficial for everyone involved? 375 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean it is crazy to think there 376 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 2: are some huge influencers out there who might still be 377 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 2: managing themselves and might not understand just how serious the 378 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 2: business side of it is. Do you think that that's 379 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: where some influencers are lacking they as you said, they 380 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 2: don't have that business brain and are just managing things themselves. 381 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: I think that a lot of influences are incredibly entrepreneurial 382 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: and they're smart, and they've seen a trend and jumped 383 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: on it. It's going there's both ways. I mean, there 384 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: are some managers that make things more difficult and the 385 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: influencers themselves easier to deal with. So I think it's 386 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: just a real person by person sort of situation, and 387 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 1: I think it's easier to forget as much as you're 388 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: then looking at it as as a transaction occurring. Right, 389 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: we're paying people for content. We have an expectation about 390 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: what that content does, but they're also a human and 391 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: on the other end, and making sure that you build 392 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: relationships with people is really important. I'm so lucky that 393 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: I have amazing team members here who do that and 394 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 1: they understand the value of that, and they are building 395 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: those connections with relationships with influencers day in and day out, 396 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: just like we did in the world of TV or 397 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 1: traditional print advertising. It's that kind of fundamental component that 398 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: makes it work, I think all for anyone, it's just 399 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: knowing what you don't know and trying to see what 400 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: your blind spots are and again and getting feedback. So 401 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: for influencers to ask brands how plent learn about what 402 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: they could have done better next time to then be 403 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: able to perform, because if we just continuously don't result 404 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: in anything for a brand that well, you'll eventually dry up. 405 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 2: And going back to the early days, I suppose everyone 406 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: thinks that when you start a business it's all glamorous, 407 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 2: but I've read that you guys are actually making some 408 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 2: of the products in your own house. Can you kind 409 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 2: of take us back to those early days and just 410 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: the effort that you guys put in to get your 411 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: product off the ground. 412 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: Yes, starting a business is the least glamorous thing I've 413 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,920 Speaker 1: ever done in my life. It is such hard work. 414 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: When we started lard Break, we had negative money in 415 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: the bank account, like no money is a shortfall. We 416 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: took furniture off the side of the road to set 417 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: up our office. That kind of vibe was really statty, 418 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: and we worked I don't know, sixteen eighteen hour days 419 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: every single day, just trying to get a name for ourselves. 420 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 1: We worked for free. It's not that I recommended, but 421 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,360 Speaker 1: I think where you can prove what you can do, 422 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: do it. And then with bank it was exactly that 423 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,479 Speaker 1: we were not only still only three years old at 424 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: will arm Blake, and then for Alex and Steve having 425 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: other businesses and full time jobs. And then we were 426 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: coming home at the end of the day and up 427 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 1: to our elbows in scrub mixture, making the scrub, packing 428 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,639 Speaker 1: the scrub, putting labels on it, taking it down to 429 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: Australia Post. And I saw so many things we learned, 430 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: and like how to set up a label making formula 431 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: in Excel if you're doing to type everything out that 432 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: Australia Posts actually come and pick up large deliveries who 433 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: don't have to do all trolleys but down Chapel Street 434 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: to get it done. So let's just you know, you 435 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: make sure the dumb mistakes and be starting out. And 436 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: I think I always tell people Google is my best friend. 437 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: And if you could look back in my search history 438 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: of the stupid things that I've googled, but they saved 439 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: me so much time. So I'm a big fan of 440 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: asking dumb questions. 441 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 2: Oh, Google's amazing. I mean, that's the thing you've got. 442 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,479 Speaker 2: As you said, you you know, in the early stages, 443 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,680 Speaker 2: you didn't even have a you didn't have a product, 444 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 2: but you just had this amazing marketing brain and you 445 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 2: knew that that formula would work. How do you go 446 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: I mean, as you said, you use Google, but how 447 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 2: do you actually go to creating a product and getting 448 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 2: you know, there's lots of legalities I'm assuming around producing 449 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 2: a skincare product. Did you have to go seek out 450 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 2: legal advice? Or did was Google just the answer? 451 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,360 Speaker 1: We always start with Google. I think there's a lot 452 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: that you can learn. There's a lot of great resources 453 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: out there. Google is amazing to everything except medical day. 454 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're always dying aren't you. 455 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: It's never always like you've got a cold and that 456 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: tells you you've got lebroty you look at that. But 457 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: we start there kind of do our face research, and 458 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: then that was even how we found out production house. 459 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: So when we went we got too busy to be 460 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: able to make it by hand ourselves and we couldn't 461 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: do anything else that the new business required us to do, 462 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: so we had to find a manufacturer. That was incredibly 463 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: difficult because there's a consistency of the product. We had 464 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: to have specially made equipment because because it's almost like 465 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: a wet dry combination, and manufacturing machinery for beauty is 466 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,760 Speaker 1: usually for only web or for only dry. So it 467 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: was just weird little challenges like that setting based and 468 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: that was the amazing things that Alex and Seas led. 469 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: We really focused on the marketing, and they really focused 470 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: on all of the crossing of the teas and dotting 471 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: of the eyes while we could grow it and they 472 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: could fix all those problements behind the scenes, and they 473 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: never get enough love and attention to that. So it 474 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: was the glamorous marketers side of the business that people 475 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 1: want to know about. But then for us to do 476 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: that we had to have the house in order, and 477 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: that's what the guys were doing. So yeah, piece of 478 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: legal stuff when we made so many mistakes not securing 479 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: proper trademarks, and that's why the business went from Frank 480 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,719 Speaker 1: to Frank body. So it's nothing to move scaling. Definitely, 481 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: no mistakes along the way. 482 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 2: Well, that's so good to hear, because I'm sure a 483 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 2: lot of people who are listening to this might be 484 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 2: starting a business. And I think, yeah, sometimes when you 485 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 2: see the end result, you don't realize all the hard work, 486 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: and I suppose the mistakes that go along the way. 487 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 2: Soph and I we run a pr business together and 488 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,919 Speaker 2: we're sisters, so I feel like we can be so 489 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 2: brutally honest with each other, but obviously working with one 490 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 2: of your best friends free, how do you guys go 491 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,679 Speaker 2: about being really honest with each other? I suppose, especially 492 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 2: in those early days when big decisions had to be made, I. 493 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: Think we and a lot better with it in time. 494 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: At the start, we were always behind the eight ball 495 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: because of the fact that we didn't really have a 496 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: clear plan for the business and it was growing at 497 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: such such an exponential rate. We would often skirt around 498 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: to difficult conversations. And as we grew as business owners 499 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: and women and into leadership roles, we knew that we 500 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: had have those kind of tough conversations, and then turns 501 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: out that's actually really easy to have if you go 502 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: into them with of these intent and an open mind. 503 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: I think those conversations become really shit to have if 504 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: there's someone in the room who doesn't want to receive feedback, 505 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: or if there's someone in the room who's not open 506 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 1: to hearing different ways of doing things. But we're really 507 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: lucky that as a founding group, everybody is quite open. 508 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 1: Everyone can admit their mistakes, and I think that's the 509 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: kind of psychological safety that you need to create. And 510 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: we're lucky, like breathe almost like a sister to me, 511 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: So even if we disagree with something, it's just sort 512 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,479 Speaker 1: of back to normal five minutes later, because that's what 513 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: you do. 514 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: So you're in that stage where you can kind of 515 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 2: be a little bit rude and then be like, oh, sorry, exactly, 516 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 2: that's so good to hear. Well, And obviously you went 517 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 2: from all the founding members frank Body and you expanded. 518 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: I think I've read you've now got thirty stuff that's 519 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 2: from an old article, so you might have even grown further. 520 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,640 Speaker 2: But how did you go from I suppose going from 521 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 2: packing the products, so then having to be people's boss, 522 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 2: because I've read that you're you felt a little weird 523 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:17,879 Speaker 2: about being assertive at first. 524 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: M Yeah, well I was a writer. It could not 525 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: be a more introverted job. If you you know, if 526 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: you tried, you live in your computer. You don't even 527 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: have to use your mouth. You just do everything with 528 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: your hands. And as we grew the businesses, I had 529 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: to become more and more confident with you know, taking 530 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: in personal meetings and even just asking the people that 531 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: I paid to do things. I'd go up and like, 532 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: O'm sorry, do you have time? Did your help now? 533 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: Taking a decade, I've been running the world, wait nearly 534 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: can you? And I finally reached the point where I 535 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: think I understand my management style, but I'm sure it 536 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: will evolved. I worked with a leadership coach, I did 537 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: heaps of reading. I consume articles about this kind of 538 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: stuff all the time, did a lot of work on 539 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: self awareness, and I struggle with things like taking criticism, 540 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: so I had to do a lot of work there. 541 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: And then I really try to instill those values in 542 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: my team. But it's hard because we go from doing 543 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,000 Speaker 1: what you love, which for me was writing, to basically 544 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: never writing anything except emails and meaning notes, and your 545 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: job becomes being the coach, and so it's not about 546 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: me writing something great anymore about me teaching my team 547 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: and lifting them up to write something great. And that's 548 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: got its beautiful parts. I've also that it's challenges when 549 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: you sugget gurther away from that thing that you're really 550 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: passionate about. 551 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 2: Do you think that as a woman in business it's 552 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 2: hard to be taking seriously as a boss, because I 553 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 2: know often if you're an assertive woman, you can often 554 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: be called a bitch, But if you're a satan, you're 555 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: a strong businessman. Do you think that it is hard 556 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 2: to be a female boss in twenty nineteen. 557 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: I think it's as hard as we let it be. 558 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: I've definitely had experiences external to our business where I'm 559 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: treated really differently in the room to my male counterparts, 560 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 1: and at first I was really offended by it, and 561 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: then I realized that it wasn't about me and it 562 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: was about them, and that that person was too unwilling 563 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: to kind of check their own egos and that that 564 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: would be a way of the serving authority. And I've 565 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 1: learned to not to bother me and I've learned to 566 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 1: sort of stand up for myself a bit more in 567 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: those situations within our team, though I don't. I think 568 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: if you're called a bitch generally it works, not because 569 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: you're actually a bitch. And what I could they are 570 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: really different things. Like I've worked with all different types 571 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: of people and I have so many strong, smart, talented 572 00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: women around me. So lucky to have that. And I 573 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: said this before, but we create very much psychological safety 574 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: for each other that anything that's direct or assert is 575 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: always taken as popular as intent. So there's never an 576 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: elementar like, oh god, she's a frigging nightmare to work 577 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: with because she's doing x ight there. It's just we 578 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: just get shit done. And that's the culture that we've 579 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: created within our business. That culture isn't about the fact 580 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: that we like to boos up together on a Faturday afternoon. 581 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: So we'd love to come here every single day and 582 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: do really good work together. So I think it's all 583 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: it's a very kind of interconnected ecosystem. But I reckon 584 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: just like don't be a jog head at work, and 585 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: people will generally. 586 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 2: I think that's some very good advice to everyone out there, 587 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 2: because there are a lot of dickheads in the workplace. 588 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: I'll put it on a bunch of bigger I'd buy that. 589 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: I've read somewhere that I think it was either yourself 590 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 2: or Brie said that you didn't really like the term 591 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 2: female entrepreneur, and I know SOF and I we hate 592 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 2: the term girl boss because why do we need to 593 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 2: preface our gender exactly? Is that? Why is that? I'm 594 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 2: assuming that's why you also hate the term female entrepreneurs. 595 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 1: I think championing women is really really important because like 596 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 1: gender equality is a regal thing. We all know that. 597 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: But I've written so many rands about grum stories it 598 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: becomes rancy. 599 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 2: But we love the r. 600 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: I'm malely passionate about us not being championed only depose 601 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: were women. I think we have to create opportunities for 602 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: women to excel because they haven't had them before. We 603 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: need to address the bid a gender payout because it's 604 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 1: a really big issue and a lot of people still 605 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: keep pretending that it's not there. But when I am 606 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: constantly referred to as female X. It's like I have 607 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: a handicap, and it's there's the asterix next to it, 608 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,479 Speaker 1: but there's I'm only here because I'm female, or I 609 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: can't be as good because I'm female, or if I 610 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: make mistakes because I'm a female. No, I'm just human, 611 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: and I'm because that being my pre personally, when I 612 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: sit in the room with my male counterparts who do 613 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: exactly the same job as me, and then never referred 614 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: to as male or entrepreneurs, they're just entrepreneurs, and I 615 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: don't understand why. 616 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: Maybe we need to stay with that phrase. Well, I'm 617 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 2: so glad that I'm so glad that you're speaking out 618 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 2: about it, because I am so over women on Instagram, 619 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: in particular using the term boss babe and girl babe 620 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 2: as a sense of like empowerment, and I'm like, it's 621 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,239 Speaker 2: actually doing the complete opposite thing. So thank you for 622 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 2: being vocal about it, because I feel like more women 623 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 2: should be. I mean, that's not mean. I think some 624 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: women who do it think that they're empowering and they 625 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 2: might not understand. I think they don't understand perhaps the 626 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 2: connotation or and that's why it's good to talk about 627 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 2: I suppose as well. 628 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 1: I think that people mostly do it with the right intention, 629 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: but we need to progress beyond that. Now. We've been 630 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: doing this thing what we're calling us female entrepreneurs or 631 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: girl bosses for so long, and I just never refer 632 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: to myself as a girl in any acithetic. I'm thirty 633 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: three years old. I haven't been a girl for nearly 634 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: twenty years, So why am I now a girl boss? Like, 635 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: come on, let's come up with certainly better than that. 636 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: And I think it's hard for us to be taken 637 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: seriously as just people in business when then ninety percent 638 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: of these networking events that are specifically designed for women 639 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: become these like pink floral tea parties, And well, that's 640 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: not how I do work. I am in a boardroom 641 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: for fifteen hours and that's my business. And even in 642 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: my personal life separate from my work, I'm not having 643 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: pink blorrel tea parties, So why should I do that 644 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: now combined with my work? We need to just not 645 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: everything needs to be pink and retty girl and like cutely, 646 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: because that's not helping us to be hated seriously. 647 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I love that. That is so actually 648 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:08,399 Speaker 2: I like that. 649 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,719 Speaker 1: If you love pink, totally have but just not every 650 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: woman has. 651 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 2: Oh I love that. I actually hate the color pink, 652 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 2: but so I'm all about that. I was going to say, 653 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 2: do you even tho, Well, you know that's your brand, 654 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 2: that's not you know what, you you might not like 655 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 2: to wear pink dresses in. 656 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,440 Speaker 1: The real world, I mean black today. 657 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 2: Do you think that's Do you think that's why a 658 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 2: lot of women are actually starting businesses? Because I know 659 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,279 Speaker 2: sof and I began our business for many reasons, but 660 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 2: one was because we couldn't stand working with dickheads or 661 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:46,000 Speaker 2: dinosaurs in the industry. Maybe I'll put it, maybe I'll 662 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 2: make a bumper sticker for that for our Yeah, but 663 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 2: also because you determine what the results are going to 664 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 2: be in your business. But do you think that women 665 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 2: are creating businesses more and more because of the that 666 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 2: we're not getting paid equally. 667 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: I think there's a multitude of reasons. I think primarily 668 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,200 Speaker 1: it's the fact that we now have a lot more 669 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: role models and we're shown a lot more that as 670 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: a woman, you can do that. And that's when I 671 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: think we're missing the conversation and it becomes about the 672 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,720 Speaker 1: fact that I'm a female entrepreneur, but it's more about 673 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: when I was growing up, there was no one that 674 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 1: looks like me doing this, And now that's the conversation 675 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,319 Speaker 1: shifting to things like race, because there are other minorities 676 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: so under representity in that space. But I remember a 677 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: month ago, my team watched a very old Apple AT 678 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: which was the very first Think Different campaigns, and it 679 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: was showing all these creative and innovating people as a 680 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: way that they launched the first IMAT And there was 681 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: one woman in this ninety second long clip and we 682 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: all sat there this week and when she popped up 683 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: on the screen, we were like, oh my god, there's 684 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: she's there. She is Finally, all the women in the 685 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: room cheers. So I think that's a lot of what's changed. 686 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: Twenty thirty years ago. You were never shown, or very 687 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: rarely shown women in any kind of position of authority 688 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: across any field, from sports to the corporate world. So 689 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 1: you didn't aspire to where you didn't know that you 690 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: could do it. And now, thanks to modern technology and 691 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: time finally changing, it's actually an idea that you have 692 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 1: in your head that I can actually do that. That's 693 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: an option for me, I don't just have to be 694 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 1: a nurse or a teacher, which is what I was 695 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: taught at school, which you're amazing profession. Both my parents teacher. 696 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: But if you want to do something else, now you're 697 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: actually shown that you can. 698 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 2: I think that's sorry, as I say, that's amazing. Both 699 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 2: our parents are teachers as well. I feel it's got 700 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: a lot of common work. 701 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,319 Speaker 1: I think, I think children and teachers that are very 702 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: special breed. Did your parents recorrect your homework for me? 703 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:03,839 Speaker 1: Like mind did? Oh? 704 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 2: Yes, even when we even when we're doing our master's degree. 705 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 2: Our poor mum, she went through line by line with 706 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 2: a ruler. They're good moms, aren't they? 707 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: For I was very lucky I started my career as 708 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: an EFL teacher. It's an incredibly tough profession. So couldn't 709 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: Janney one that does it. 710 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,000 Speaker 2: I feel like there's so many amazing business people that 711 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 2: did start their careers as teachers. Actually, I feel like 712 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 2: if you can deal with children, you can deal with 713 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 2: anything and deal with business. 714 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: I agree. 715 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 2: Just lastly, we're just going to ask you. I mean, 716 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 2: we're I know we don't want to reference female entrepreneurs, 717 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 2: but if there are any young girls out there that 718 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 2: are listening, do you have any specific advice for them 719 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 2: if they're launching a business, And for boys as well, 720 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,400 Speaker 2: but we mostly have girls listening. 721 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: For anyone's launching a business. I think the best thing 722 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: that you can do is understand what you're not good 723 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: at and bring people in around you that fill those gaps. 724 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,240 Speaker 1: Look for people that think differently. You don't need five 725 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: clones with you, And especially as you grow your business 726 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 1: and maybe hire your very first person, you don't need 727 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: that person to be your friend. 728 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:20,320 Speaker 2: You have friends. 729 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: You need that person to be a really amazing asset 730 00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: to your business. And whether that's tomorrow or in two years, 731 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: if you're looking to hire someone, just really remember that 732 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 1: and do There's so many great articles and podcasts out 733 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,840 Speaker 1: there that you can listen to about how to hire 734 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,920 Speaker 1: people effectively. And I didn't do that until quite a 735 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,759 Speaker 1: few years into my business, and I think I may 736 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:46,759 Speaker 1: hikes because of that, and then be prepared to work 737 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: your out offs and sex clear goals. Because there's no 738 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,480 Speaker 1: such thing as an opennight success. Everything is the cumulative 739 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: effective all of the efforts that you put in over 740 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 1: a long period of time, and you just need to 741 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,879 Speaker 1: break out your goals into little, bye sized pieces. It's 742 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: like something you can do this week, something you can 743 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: do next month, that all eventually leads to your goal. 744 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: That's amazing of us. I'm just inspired listening to that. 745 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,839 Speaker 2: I'm taking notes at the moment. Thank you so much 746 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 2: for joining us today. We've had so much fun chatting 747 00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:24,360 Speaker 2: with you and obviously hearing your amazing insights into the 748 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 2: world of business. So we really do appreciate your time. 749 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: Well, thanks very much for having me and thanks for 750 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,160 Speaker 1: listening to me. Ran, and just remember everybody that it 751 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what genders you are, if you even identify 752 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 1: particular agenda, just do awesome work and good things for come. 753 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 2: I love that, I love Thank you so much. It 754 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:56,040 Speaker 2: was so nice to chat with you. We really appreciate it. Bye.