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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 3: Now, Parental provision of alcohol was generally associated with increased

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Speaker 3: adolescent alcohol use and in some instances, increased heavy episodic drinking,

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Speaker 3: as well as higher rates of alcohol related problems.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the scars of our show, my Mum

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Speaker 1: and Dad.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to be honest, I'm not sure how this

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Speaker 3: podcast is going to go today because you are more

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Speaker 3: distracted than you possibly have ever been. As we've been

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Speaker 3: recording a podcast. Kylie, there is a tiny little puppy

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Speaker 3: dog tiptoeing around. We've asked Facebook, We've asked everybody, two

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Speaker 3: hundred and twenty thousand followers on Facebook, what do we

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Speaker 3: call our new puppy dog. Loads of answers come through.

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Speaker 3: We haven't filtered through them all yet. I'm sure that

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Speaker 3: there's going to be a name for this dog soon.

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Speaker 3: But right now, you just want.

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Speaker 1: To watch the dog. You don't even want a podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's so cool watching her explore her new surroundings. She's

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Speaker 2: looking my toes right now, the extension card for the

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Speaker 2: podcast desk, Podcast Desk, and she's looking at like it's

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Speaker 2: an alien.

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Speaker 3: But she's also like, I wonder what will happen if

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Speaker 3: I chew on that it's going to be fun. So

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Speaker 3: today we've got a conversation that I think is a

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Speaker 3: really important one, and it has to do with kids

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Speaker 3: and alcohol, and it's important for a handful of reasons.

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Speaker 3: Before we talk about why it's important, can I just ask, now, now,

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Speaker 3: both you and I come from families where we don't

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Speaker 3: have alcohol in our home, and neither you nor I

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Speaker 3: are drinkers ourselves, So this is not an issue that

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Speaker 3: we are confronting in our home in any any kind

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Speaker 3: of serious or significant way. We just we don't drink

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Speaker 3: our parents, so the kids grandparents don't drink. Makes the

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Speaker 3: whole alcohol thing kind of really easy. But I know

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Speaker 3: when I was a kid, I remember my grandpa used

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Speaker 3: to take me to the pub in his old I

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Speaker 3: think it was an old Holden eh or something like that,

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Speaker 3: and he would buy me a shandy.

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Speaker 1: And I was like five or six years old and

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Speaker 1: he's giving.

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Speaker 3: Me a shandy and I'm sitting out of the car

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Speaker 3: drinking a shandy or a lemonade or whatever he brought me.

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Speaker 3: And I also remember when I was a bit older

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Speaker 3: watching my grandpa giving my, like my.

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Speaker 1: Two year old sisters SIPs of beer.

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Speaker 3: I'm like six years old and I'm watching him let

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Speaker 3: my two year old sisters sip from his beer cup.

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Speaker 3: And there's that that thing where people say, oh, that's right,

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Speaker 3: just get the kids used to it. Were you force

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Speaker 3: fed alcohol when you were a kid.

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Speaker 2: So I've got a couple of pictures of me, as

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Speaker 2: I would say, probably a two year old sitting on

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Speaker 2: a picnic rug, and I've got a beer bottle in

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Speaker 2: my like literally, I've turned it upside down. But my

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Speaker 2: parents assure me that it was an empty.

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Speaker 3: Bottle that I was once you'd finished it.

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Speaker 2: So I have no recollections whatsoever of being introduced to

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Speaker 2: alcohol in any way, shape or form. I was surrounded

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Speaker 2: by it. A lot of our extended family were drinkers,

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Speaker 2: so it was. It was around, but I was never

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Speaker 2: I was never offered.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Interesting, The reasons complicated and detailed. For the reasons you

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Speaker 3: and I don't have alcohol on our home, Part of

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Speaker 3: it is for religious reasons. Part of it also, your

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Speaker 3: dad is an alcoholic. Before he gave up alcohol and

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Speaker 3: walked away from it, he had an alcohol problem and

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Speaker 3: he hasn't touched alcohol for what like forty years or

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Speaker 3: something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was three by the time he made a

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Speaker 2: decision to stop.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: And we have had a in my extended family, tragically

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Speaker 3: we've had I had an uncle who was absolutely addicted

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Speaker 3: to alcohol and he got himself into some significant problems

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Speaker 3: with violence, and one night he also beat down my grandparents' door,

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Speaker 3: beat them up for money, and the next day he

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Speaker 3: took his life as he grappled with the enormity of

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Speaker 3: how far alcohol had taken him down a path that

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Speaker 3: he didn't want to go. So really heavy kind of

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Speaker 3: stuff in our families when it comes to alcohol, in

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Speaker 3: addition to our our personal values and belief which is

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Speaker 3: why we have just kept it out of our lives.

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Speaker 1: But we're a little bit of an anomaly from that

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Speaker 1: point of view.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you can barely be called Australian and not

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Speaker 3: have alcohol in the house, not be a drinker. So

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Speaker 3: today our conversations really about what do you do with

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Speaker 3: the kids around Christmas time?

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Speaker 1: Is it okay for the kids to have a sip?

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Speaker 3: When do you start introducing alcohol to the kids. I mean,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people have got adolescents who are thinking

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Speaker 3: it's summer. At summer holidays, everyone's a bit more relaxed.

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Speaker 3: There's barbecues happening, there's beers in the ski, there's so

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Speaker 3: much more opportunity, I guess for kids to be engaging

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Speaker 3: in alcohol related behavior, whether it's endorsed by parents or not.

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Speaker 3: So our conversation today is what do we do about it.

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Speaker 3: Should we help our kids to drink responsibly by exposing

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Speaker 3: them to it early, or are we better off keeping

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Speaker 3: them as far away from it as possible.

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Speaker 2: Most people would recognize if they've been following you for

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Speaker 2: a long time. We're pretty stickler to the rules. You know.

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Speaker 2: Social media has guidelines around what age kids should be engaging.

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Speaker 1: Online various platforms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we stick to those rules. And I think

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Speaker 2: that they're there for a reason. And you know, it's

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Speaker 2: illegal for children to have access to alcohol before the

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Speaker 2: age of eighteen, and so for me, it's just a

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Speaker 2: no brainer. This is an adult experience and it should

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Speaker 2: be left for adults to experience.

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Speaker 3: So that's an uncommon response, and it may be because

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Speaker 3: of our other biases and our other background issues. There's

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Speaker 3: a study that was published this year in a journal

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Speaker 3: called BMC Public Health.

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Speaker 1: This is quite a prestigious.

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Speaker 3: Journalist, it's very well recognized and has been around for

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Speaker 3: quite a long time. And they were looking at parental

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Speaker 3: alcohol consumption and alcohol related behavior in relation to adolescent

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Speaker 3: alcohol use. This is based in England. The culture around

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Speaker 3: alcohol there is probably a little bit different to the

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Speaker 3: Australian culture, but it's still one of the western nations

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Speaker 3: where we're fairly consistent across the board with a lot

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Speaker 3: of these things. And what the research is basically found

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Speaker 3: is that a lot of parents, they look at whether

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Speaker 3: or not there drinkers or not, they also have a

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Speaker 3: look at on balance, is alcohol acceptable in the broader environment.

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Speaker 3: And the research is pretty much found that parents are

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Speaker 3: aware of the risks and consequences of alcohol use and

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Speaker 3: the wide range of influencers that are shaping drinking behavior,

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Speaker 3: and they generally express, I guess you'd call it a

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Speaker 3: loose level, a light and loose level of disapproval of

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Speaker 3: alcohol use among young people. However, they also see our

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Speaker 3: adolescent alcohol use as inevitable and it's something that happens

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Speaker 3: within a drinking culture that's quite tolerant. And that's the

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Speaker 3: same with Australia, right, we've got to I said it before.

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Speaker 3: Are you even Australian if you don't drink? That culture

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Speaker 3: is so tolerant, so there's an expectation that you will drink.

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Speaker 3: And the research therefore showed that parents chose a reluctant

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Speaker 3: acceptance kind of approach, which pretty much said that they said, well,

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Speaker 3: we don't really approve of you drinking, but you're part

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Speaker 3: of this wider culture and we drink a little bit

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Speaker 3: of ourselves, and we want you to make some decisions

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Speaker 3: for yourself, and we're not going to get you in

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Speaker 3: trouble for it. You're pulling a funny face at me

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Speaker 3: while I'm saying that what's going on? Oh no, oh,

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Speaker 3: the dog's are eating one of the plants. I'm in

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Speaker 3: the middle of something really important. We've got to finish.

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Speaker 3: Let me finish this and then we'll fix up the

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Speaker 3: dog and we'll press pause and record again. So basically,

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Speaker 3: parents are saying, kids, you decide for yourself. Just don't

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Speaker 3: don't overdo it. You can't have this conversation in more,

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Speaker 3: can you? You really have to go and rescue the

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Speaker 3: plant from the dog. We are experiencing dog related technical difficulties,

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Speaker 3: please stand by. There we go, So we've pressed pause

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Speaker 3: and then we're pressing record again. I think that the

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Speaker 3: message has gotten through there, and what it's basically saying

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Speaker 3: is that parents don't like their kids drinking, but they're

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Speaker 3: kind of reluctantly accepting of it, and in some cases

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Speaker 3: they even start to gradually introduce their kids to it

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Speaker 3: with what's called boundary provision. That is, you can do it,

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Speaker 3: but only in this circumstance and only when I'm providing

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Speaker 3: it for you and I'm kind of here to keep

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Speaker 3: you safe. That's what the twenty twenty two data suggests.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, we've acknowledged that this is an issue that we're

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Speaker 2: dealing with at all, But as a parent who can

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Speaker 2: see the risks risks associated with it, I really struggle

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Speaker 2: with that mentality because would you not want to keep

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Speaker 2: your children as far away from it for as long

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Speaker 2: as possible. I'm actually struggling to find words because I

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Speaker 2: really have seen so much devastation occur as a result

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Speaker 2: of misuse of alcohol right over the years, whether it

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Speaker 2: be you know, lives taken themselves or involved in accidents.

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Speaker 3: But there's the violence issue, and there's also the sexual

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Speaker 3: harm well and.

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Speaker 2: Understanding how children's brain development and how this impacts not

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Speaker 2: only its development but the way it responds.

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Speaker 3: It's just the biophysiological change that occurs. Let me go

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Speaker 3: through a couple of other pieces of data, because I

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Speaker 3: think this is a super interesting conversation. So a piece

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Speaker 3: that was published in the Journal of Studies on Alcohol

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Speaker 3: and Drugs in twenty fourteen by some researchers by the

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Speaker 3: name of Kanak Winters, Caciola, Kirby.

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Speaker 1: And Aria said this.

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Speaker 3: In their paper, they said, parental provision of alcohol was

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Speaker 3: generally associated with increased adolescent alcohol use and in some

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Speaker 3: instances increased heavy episodic drinking, as well as higher rates

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Speaker 3: of alcohol related problems. And I said, this is a

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Speaker 3: really important study because a lot of parents say, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to reluctantly accept it, and I'm going to have

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Speaker 3: this boundary provision. I'm going to give it to you

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Speaker 3: so long as you only drink it in safe spaces

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Speaker 3: where I'm giving it to you and I don't know

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Speaker 3: how much you're drinking, and it's just happening around the

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Speaker 3: dinner table or down in the rumpus room or out

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Speaker 3: in the backyard. There's that kind of attitude. It's known

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Speaker 3: as the meta training and effect. There's this belief that

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Speaker 3: people in Mediterranean countries model responsible drinking and therefore their

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Speaker 3: children don't grow up to have alcohol problems.

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Speaker 1: Now there's no data to support that is actually a big,

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Speaker 1: fat lie, But.

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Speaker 3: People find that a narrative that therefore justifies their behavior

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Speaker 3: here in Australia or the UK, or the US or

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Speaker 3: New Zealand in providing alcohol to their kids. But this

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Speaker 3: twenty fourteen paper says, when you do that, parental provision

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Speaker 3: of alcohol is associated with increased adolescent alcohol use and

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Speaker 3: in some instances, increased heavy episodic drinking that's what we

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Speaker 3: call binge drinking, as well as higher rates of alcohol

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Speaker 3: related problems. Data in support of the view that provision

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Speaker 3: serves as a protective factor in the face of other

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Speaker 3: risks were equivocal. In other words, it's not really their

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Speaker 3: fascinating study. Let me add one more to this conversation.

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Speaker 3: This one was published in the journal known as Alcoholism

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Speaker 3: Clinical and Experimental Research. This is a twenty seventeen paper

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Speaker 3: says age of alcohol initiation and progression to binge drinking

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Speaker 3: adolescence a prospective cohort study, and these researchers basically found

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Speaker 3: that initiating alcohol use earlier in adolescents, whether parents are

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Speaker 3: providing it or not, is associated with an increased risk

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Speaker 3: of binge drinking and higher quantity of consumption in late

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Speaker 3: secondary school, supporting an argument for delaying alcohol initiation for

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Speaker 3: as long as possible to reduce the risk for problematic behavior,

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Speaker 3: problematic use, i should say, in later adolescents, and the

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Speaker 3: alcohol related harms that may accompany this use. Research out

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Speaker 3: of the University of New South Wales and Sydney shows

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Speaker 3: the same thing. When you give your kids alcohol or

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Speaker 3: when they have access to it with your reluctant acceptance,

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Speaker 3: they see it ultimately as parental endorsement exactly, and they say, oh,

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Speaker 3: I can do whatever I want, and I'm going to

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Speaker 3: do it, Whethermum and Dad are giving it to me

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Speaker 3: or not, and they tend to drink more and tend

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Speaker 3: to drink heavier, and therefore the risks and the harms accelerate.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's also a level of confidence that is associated

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Speaker 2: with that because they feel like they are equipped. Mum

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Speaker 2: and Dad have been teaching me how to drink responsibility,

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Speaker 2: so I therefore I'm safe. I can do this. I've

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Speaker 2: done it with my parents. I know what I'm up for.

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Speaker 2: But when you think about your teenagers and you think

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Speaker 2: about some of their most annoying traits, now, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to say, spontaneity and an inability to think through the

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Speaker 2: consequences of decisions is probably at the top of the

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Speaker 2: least when it comes to our girls at least.

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Speaker 3: So in the psychological terms for that are impulsivity and

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Speaker 3: emotional and behavioral regulation.

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Speaker 2: That's without alcohol. Yes, with that, we understand what happens

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Speaker 2: to our inhibitions when we partake of alcohol.

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Speaker 3: So we become disinhibited, we become more likely to move. Well,

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Speaker 3: what we actually have, This is fascinating to me. We

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Speaker 3: become myopic. What that means is we become shortsighted. We

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Speaker 3: pretty much just see what's in front of us.

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Speaker 2: Right in that moment, In that moment, talk about living.

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Speaker 1: In the the moment's all that matters.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so for me, looking at what is already

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Speaker 2: difficult to navigate as a parent with a teenager, adding

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Speaker 2: alcohol to the mix, it feels like a recipe for disaster.

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Speaker 1: So the data is all over the place.

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Speaker 3: It shows really clearly consistent with our bias, which I'm

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Speaker 3: I'm really cautious, and I wanted to put that up front.

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Speaker 3: I don't want people to think that we're wowsers around this.

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Speaker 3: We know that it's inevitable that most kids are going

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Speaker 3: to want to consume alcohol because it's so embedded in

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Speaker 3: the culture, it's so much a part of Australian living

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Speaker 3: and Western living generally. But the more we can delay,

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Speaker 3: the more we can reduce parental provision, the better it

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Speaker 3: is for kids.

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Speaker 2: You talk about picking your battles, I feel like this

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Speaker 2: is a battle you want to actually and this is.

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Speaker 3: One that you want to really go to war on,

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Speaker 3: like absolutely stand your ground and let the kids know.

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Speaker 3: Once you're eighteen your choice. But until you're eighteen, we

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Speaker 3: really want to discourage in every way.

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Speaker 1: And here are the reasons why.

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Speaker 3: Now, I think we also need to give some parents some.

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Speaker 1: Tips as we wrap this up.

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Speaker 2: Well, what's your number one?

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Speaker 3: Number one, The results of all of the research show

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Speaker 3: that not offering your teen or your baby, six year old,

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Speaker 3: or your eight year old or whatever it is, not

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Speaker 3: offering your child alcohol is best.

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Speaker 1: So that's the first tip.

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Speaker 3: The second thing that I would say is if you

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Speaker 3: don't think it's realistic, or if you already know that

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Speaker 3: it's happening, or you kind of feel like you're fighting

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Speaker 3: a losing battle and you're not willing to die on

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Speaker 3: this hill because you've.

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Speaker 1: Got other more important battles to have.

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Speaker 3: Like you and I think that this is a really

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Speaker 3: important one, but not everyone's going to agree with on that.

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Speaker 3: What we know from research is that young people who

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Speaker 3: are not supplied alcohol, or who are only supplied minimal

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Speaker 3: amounts under the age of eighteen, I'm talking a sip

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Speaker 3: that kind of stuff, they're the ones that have the

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Speaker 3: lowest risk of binge drinking. They're the ones that have

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Speaker 3: the lowest risk of experiencing alcohol related harms. They're the

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Speaker 3: ones that have the lowest likelihood of reporting symptoms of

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Speaker 3: alcohol abuse or alcohol dependence and alcohol use disorder in

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Speaker 3: early adulthood. So we know that adolescence is often a

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Speaker 3: time of experimentation. But this aligns with all the previous

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Speaker 3: research that says just don't allow alcohol before the age

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Speaker 3: of eighteen, that's the best way to reduce binge drinking risk,

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Speaker 3: physical psychological, social problems due to alcohol.

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Speaker 1: And it does.

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Speaker 3: Align with current Australian alcohol guidelines.

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Speaker 2: Have you got any other tips for parents?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just a couple of others.

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Speaker 3: First off, research shows that young people who receive whole

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Speaker 3: drinks from their parents earlier in adolescents, so we're talking

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Speaker 3: maybe thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, or were mainly supplied alcohol by

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Speaker 3: their peers, drank more heavily during adolescents. They were also

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Speaker 3: much more likely to binge drink and report symptoms of

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Speaker 3: problem drinking and experience alcohol related harms in early adulthood.

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Speaker 3: So if you are going to provide SIPs, against our

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Speaker 3: better judgment and advice, do it under supervision. Make sure

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Speaker 3: that it's at home, and make sure that it's a

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Speaker 3: sip of yours and they're not sculling the can.

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Speaker 1: In front of you or something like that.

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Speaker 3: You also, you want to know who your teens are

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Speaker 3: friends with and if they're going to go out, you

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Speaker 3: want to make sure that you have some idea of

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Speaker 3: where they're going to be, who they're going to be with,

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Speaker 3: if they'll be home late. They need to know that

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Speaker 3: you want to be involved in a monitoring conversation. I'm

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Speaker 3: not saying track them, because even if you're tracking them

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Speaker 3: on the phone, You can't guarantee that they're going to

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Speaker 3: be making healthy choices, but you want to be monitoring,

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Speaker 3: having an interest asking the questions. I think also you've

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Speaker 3: got to let them know if there's going to be alcohol,

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Speaker 3: or if they're worried for their safety or for their friends' safety,

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Speaker 3: you are safe to call.

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Speaker 1: You're not going to blow up, you're going to lose

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Speaker 1: the plot.

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Speaker 3: You don't endorse any of that behavior, but if they

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Speaker 3: need help, they know that you are going to be

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Speaker 3: there for them. I think other than that, you want

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Speaker 3: to just limit access to alcohol at home.

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Speaker 1: Have some pretty clear alcohol specific rules.

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Speaker 3: For instance, you say no alcohol from friends, or you

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Speaker 3: can only drink it if I'm there to supervise.

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Speaker 1: And you really also want to model positive alcohol behaviors.

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Speaker 3: Make sure that they know, for example, that you don't

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Speaker 3: drink much at all, and you always make sure you've

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Speaker 3: got food in your belly, and that you're in a

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Speaker 3: safe place.

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Speaker 1: While you're doing it.

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Speaker 3: Those kinds of things I think are also going to

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Speaker 3: be really helpful, especially at this time of year when

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Speaker 3: there's a lot more alcohol flowing a little more freely

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Speaker 3: than it normally does.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a Wrapp for Today.

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Speaker 3: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 3: Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more of.

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Speaker 3: Vogue about making your family happy, visit happyfamilies dot com

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Speaker 3: dot au, and if you'd like more information about the

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Speaker 3: things specifically in this podcast, check the show notes. We've

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Speaker 3: added links to a range of different websites and studies

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Speaker 3: that can tell you more about why we've taken the

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Speaker 3: stand we have