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Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday, the sixteenth

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Speaker 1: of June. I'm Billy fitz.

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Speaker 2: Simon's I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 3: After a size catastrophic bombshell election last Susan Lee will

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Speaker 3: become the first woman to lead the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 4: I am humbled, I am honored, and I am up

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Speaker 4: for the job. The coalition has imploded, with the Nationals

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Speaker 4: choosing to tear up their agreement with the Liberal Party. Today,

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Speaker 4: David and I have reached agreement formally to reform the coalition.

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Speaker 4: I reject characterizations of left and right, but I do

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Speaker 4: believe that government is ultimately formed in the sensible center.

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Speaker 1: If you have been listening to the Daly Os for

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Speaker 1: a while, you'll know that we have been waiting quite

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Speaker 1: some time to get the leader of the Liberal Party

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Speaker 1: to do an interview with us. We didn't have any

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Speaker 1: luck with Peter Dutton, but his replacement, Susan Lee, immediately

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Speaker 1: agreed to talk with us upon becoming leader. In today's interview,

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Speaker 1: I chat with the new opposition leader about her assessment

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Speaker 1: of why the coalition lost, the coalition's subsequent and brief breakup,

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Speaker 1: their stance on nuclear and this idea that the Liberal

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Speaker 1: Party has a women's problem.

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Speaker 3: Billy, I'm really excited to dive into this chat because

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Speaker 3: these are some really big questions that you've just outlined

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Speaker 3: you're going to tackle with the new opposition leader, big

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Speaker 3: questions for the Liberal Party at the beginning of a

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Speaker 3: three year term as opposition, and that's a really interesting

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Speaker 3: time to have the discussions because we can kind of

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Speaker 3: now set ourselves up a little bit to watch how

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Speaker 3: the party transforms. So thanks for chasing down this opportunity

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Speaker 3: for us and for all of our listeners. Of course,

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Speaker 3: let's jump into it.

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Speaker 1: Susan Lee, thank you so much for joining the Daily Os.

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Speaker 4: It's a pleasure, Billy. It's lovely to meet your team

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Speaker 4: and see where you are and realize what a great

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Speaker 4: group of young entrepreneurs TDA is.

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Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. That's very kind. Now you are the

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Speaker 1: new leader of the Liberal Party. You have replaced Peter

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Speaker 1: Dutton after the last election. For anyone who might not

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Speaker 1: be familiar with you, what do you want young people

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Speaker 1: to know about who you are?

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Speaker 4: I want young people to know first and foremost that

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Speaker 4: I want to listen to them and meet them where

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Speaker 4: they are and not assume that I know what young

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Speaker 4: people are thinking. We got a very serious and humbling

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Speaker 4: message at the election. A lot of people didn't support us,

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Speaker 4: and I want to go back into the community and

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Speaker 4: I'm not in electuring mode. I'm in listening mode.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the election, and I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: it more because it was the coalition's worst loss in

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Speaker 1: seventy years. What is your assessment as to why Australia

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Speaker 1: rejected the Coalition to the extent that they did.

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Speaker 4: We didn't have what they were looking for, or we

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Speaker 4: didn't explain it well enough, or a combination of many factors.

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Speaker 4: But I stood on polling booth and I talked to

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Speaker 4: a lot of people coming into vote. I got very

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Speaker 4: strong messages back in many cases that we weren't considered,

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Speaker 4: we weren't relevant, and we weren't meeting them where they

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Speaker 4: were in their lives. So it was a very serious,

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Speaker 4: humbling message. And my first statement was we need to

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Speaker 4: listen to that and we need to understand it better.

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Speaker 1: What does that tangibly mean that you weren't meeting them

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Speaker 1: where they were at like what policies do you reflect

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Speaker 1: on that maybe weren't what the Australian people wanted.

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Speaker 4: We had policies on home ownership, but young Australians didn't

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Speaker 4: necessarily tune into them, or accept them, or hear them properly.

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Speaker 4: Did they not hear them or did they not want them?

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Speaker 4: I don't know the answer to that. But when I

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Speaker 4: asked young people often they hadn't really heard them, or

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Speaker 4: they had heard a confusing mix of messages from both

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Speaker 4: sides of politics, and they weren't sure how to unscramble

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Speaker 4: all of what it meant. Moving ahead a bit, perhaps

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Speaker 4: in the stage of life that you might be at.

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Speaker 4: I spoke to a lot of young mums who were

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Speaker 4: worried about the work family balance, something I identify with

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Speaker 4: having had three small children, family farming, business, studying when

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Speaker 4: I was in my thirties, rushing here, there and everywhere,

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Speaker 4: and that sort of tension is there for a lot

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Speaker 4: of people, and that includes young people these days. So

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Speaker 4: we didn't necessarily have something that we were saying to

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Speaker 4: that group that allowed them to believe that we understood

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Speaker 4: what their lives were like.

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Speaker 1: I've heard you say that australia'sent the coalition a clear message.

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Speaker 1: What exactly do you think that message was.

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Speaker 4: It's a message that we reject your side of politics

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Speaker 4: on this day and we've parked our vote elsewhere. The

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Speaker 4: next step is actually understanding what that message was, because

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Speaker 4: it's not the same message everywhere.

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Speaker 1: By the way, after the election, the Liberal Party briefly

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Speaker 1: broke up with the Nationals. There was a coalition breakup.

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Speaker 1: What happened, Well.

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Speaker 4: The Nationals and the Liberals traditionally are in coalition, and

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Speaker 4: we both agree that we're stronger when we are, so

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Speaker 4: we started from that point of view, and you know,

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Speaker 4: we had a discussion about what that might look like,

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Speaker 4: and without sort of picking over the details of it,

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Speaker 4: there was a brief decision made to separate, which I

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Speaker 4: wasn't comfortable with and I don't honestly think the Nationals

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Speaker 4: were comfortable with others. So he came back to the

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Speaker 4: table to give it another go and maybe took some

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Speaker 4: inspiration from Charlie XCX and Lord and Yeah got back

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Speaker 4: together on the remix.

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Speaker 1: I've heard you say that to form government it needs

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Speaker 1: to be in the center. Do you think that? I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously the Nationals are further to the right than the

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Speaker 1: Liberal Party. So do you think the Nationals will allow

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Speaker 1: you to do that to form a government in the center.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's a I don't necessarily agree with you that

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Speaker 4: the Nationals are further to the right. I don't tend

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Speaker 4: to use those expressions. The mean different things to different people,

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Speaker 4: and I don't know that they're particularly helpful. Nationals Party

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Speaker 4: members have a range of different views across a range

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Speaker 4: of areas, just as we do in the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 4: But what we will do when we come together is

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Speaker 4: keep the team inside the tent, so to speak, when

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Speaker 4: it comes to the decisions that we then prosecute with

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Speaker 4: the Australian people.

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Speaker 1: But you're the one who has talked about needing to

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Speaker 1: form government in the center, and so I guess I

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Speaker 1: understand that there are so many different opinions, but you're

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Speaker 1: the leader, and as leader, do you think that you

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Speaker 1: will be able to move them to the center.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's not my job to move them where they

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Speaker 4: don't want to go in their own party room, but

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Speaker 4: they'll have those discussions and I would necessarily agree that

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Speaker 4: they are right left center themselves. I mean, that's really

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Speaker 4: up for them, and what I've seen I think they

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Speaker 4: might be left. Look, I've had all sorts of views

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Speaker 4: from people who support the National Party, so it's definitely

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Speaker 4: not the case that they won group. But I mean,

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Speaker 4: I'm not here to talk about them. I'm here to

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Speaker 4: talk about the Liberals. And I know that the strength

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Speaker 4: of our party room is a range of different views

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Speaker 4: across what might traditionally be called left right. But it

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Speaker 4: is really about where are the policies that meet Australians.

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Speaker 1: Where they are I want to look though at a

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Speaker 1: policy that I understand you have partly decided on, and

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Speaker 1: that is nuclear This was part of the reason that

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Speaker 1: the coalition did break up after the election. The Nationals

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Speaker 1: were for it, the Liberal Party was against it. Where

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Speaker 1: do you stand on that today?

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Speaker 4: That we should, as a first step lift the moratorium

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Speaker 4: And we've got broad agreement that that is a sensible

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Speaker 4: first step.

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Speaker 1: And by moratorium you mean lift the ban on nuclear

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Speaker 1: energy in Australia.

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Speaker 4: Yes, so that it's possible to go ahead. So that's

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Speaker 4: a very early, if you like, preliminary first step that

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Speaker 4: we've agreed on. So what we haven't agreed is to

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Speaker 4: take the exact policy that we had at the last

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Speaker 4: election moving forward.

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Speaker 1: Just to clarify though, that was always going to have

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Speaker 1: to be the first step to introduce nuclear energy. So

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Speaker 1: the election result has not changed the coalition's first step

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Speaker 1: when it comes to nuclear.

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Speaker 4: It is always the first step, of course, because there

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Speaker 4: is a ban that prevents nuclear power. So yes, it

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Speaker 4: always is the first step. But people would remember that

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Speaker 4: our policy at the last election was much more detailed

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Speaker 4: than that and involved considerable investment by government and even

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Speaker 4: detailed the location of nuclear passtation. So that is no

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Speaker 4: longer our policy. But the preliminary step, if you like,

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Speaker 4: of lifting that ban is.

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Speaker 1: I just want to understand this more. Because you were

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Speaker 1: willing to break up the coalition partly over nuclear that

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Speaker 1: has now changed. And so in the end, was it

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Speaker 1: a case of politics getting in the way of what

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Speaker 1: you actually believe.

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Speaker 4: Look, there were many issues on the table and this wasn't,

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Speaker 4: by the way, the main one.

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Speaker 1: But it was part of it.

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Speaker 4: There were three other policies that the Nationals were talking about,

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Speaker 4: and we arrived at a sensible place with those, and

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Speaker 4: I think that nuclear we arrived in a place that

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Speaker 4: all Australians would agree with. We're not talking about government

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Speaker 4: investing in nuclear as we were at the last election.

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Speaker 4: We're talking about a sensible first step in removing that moratorium.

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Speaker 1: Let's turn to women in the Liberal Party. You have

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Speaker 1: said in the past that you support quotas for women.

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Speaker 1: As leader, will you introduce quotas into the Liberal Party?

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Speaker 4: Quotas if they exist or a matter for the state divisions.

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Speaker 4: So sometimes my remarks before you've perhaps not quite captured them.

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Speaker 4: But what I want to explain is how it works

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Speaker 4: with our state divisions. And before I say that, by

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Speaker 4: the way, I need to emphasize it. I want to

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Speaker 4: see more women in the Liberal Party. There are challenges

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Speaker 4: for every one of our state divisions to find and

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Speaker 4: articulate better pathways for women to join the party and

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Speaker 4: to step up as candidates. But we're a federated body.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't we don't decide everything from the position of leader.

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Speaker 4: Each of our divisions is responsible for its own world,

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Speaker 4: if you like, when it comes to selections.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying that as leader you can't do anything

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Speaker 1: on quotas for women in the Liberal.

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Speaker 4: Party, Well, you're capturing something that's very narrow and specific.

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Speaker 4: So let's step back and say what do we want

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Speaker 4: to achieve. We want to achieve more women in the party.

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Speaker 4: So that is a challenge that I will certainly make

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Speaker 4: clear to all of our divisions and in everything I

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Speaker 4: ever say as leader when I address those divisions, either

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Speaker 4: in public or you know, the various forums that we

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Speaker 4: find ourselves, I will be emphasizing the importance of that.

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Speaker 1: With it being up to the state divisions. So my

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Speaker 1: understanding is that the state divisions do already have a target,

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Speaker 1: and a target is different to a quota because a

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Speaker 1: quota is a requirement and a target is not. But

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Speaker 1: they already have that target in place and it hasn't worked.

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Speaker 1: The number of Coalition women in the Lower House has

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Speaker 1: actually gone backwards in the last election. Now less than

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Speaker 1: a quarter of Lower House Coalition MPs are women. So

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Speaker 1: do you concede that the targets being up to the

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Speaker 1: state divisions is not working well?

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Speaker 4: The first point tonight is that when we lose an election,

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Speaker 4: and we lose seats or people who've put their hand

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Speaker 4: up don't win, then we don't get those women in

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Speaker 4: the Parliament.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, I have to pull you off on that because

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Speaker 1: I understand you can't control who Australia votes for. But

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Speaker 1: you can control how many women are chosen as candidates,

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Speaker 1: and only a third of the Liberal Party's candidates at

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Speaker 1: the last election were women.

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Speaker 4: So this is a strong message to the state divisions.

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Speaker 4: Do this better so we have more women. But again

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Speaker 4: we do need to respect the processes that the divisions

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Speaker 4: have and we also need to accept that they need

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Speaker 4: to reach out and get more women joining and putting

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Speaker 4: their hand up in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Just quickly pausing here to hear a quick message from

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Speaker 1: today's sponsor. So you're saying you can't control the quotas

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Speaker 1: for women in the Liberal Party. Something you can control, though,

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Speaker 1: is the shadow cabinet and your colleague, Senator Sarah Henderson

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Speaker 1: was amongst several senior coalition women who were demoted in

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Speaker 1: the Shadow cabinet. In her statement, she said, I regret

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Speaker 1: that a number of high performing Liberal women have been

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Speaker 1: overlooked or demoted in the new ministry. If your own

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Speaker 1: colleagues don't believe that you have supported women in this

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Speaker 1: new ministry, why should Australia.

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Speaker 4: Oh well, I have supported women in the new ministry,

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Speaker 4: and I also understand that when somebody isn't able to

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Speaker 4: be found a place, as was the case with a

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Speaker 4: couple of my female colleagues are going to be disappointed,

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Speaker 4: they're even going to be heard. I understand that, I

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Speaker 4: know the feeling of not being chosen to be in

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Speaker 4: that grouping.

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Speaker 1: But what do you mean by that?

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Speaker 4: You know, well, I know the feeling of Over my

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Speaker 4: political career, there's been times when people have been selected

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Speaker 4: to be in shadow ministry, shadow cabinets, or cabinets in

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Speaker 4: fact of government and I haven't been chosen.

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Speaker 1: That was my understanding. That was quite different though, because

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Speaker 1: you were demoted to the backbench because of allegations of

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Speaker 1: misusing public funds.

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Speaker 4: I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about my entire

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Speaker 4: career and where I might or might not have been

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Speaker 4: chosen to step up. So there's many been many phone

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Speaker 4: calls from leaders over the years, or no phone call,

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Speaker 4: as it happens, to invite you to be part of,

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Speaker 4: for example, a cabinet or a shadow cabinet that I

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Speaker 4: haven't received. So my point is not just that one

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Speaker 4: instance that you remarked on, but my point is everyone

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Speaker 4: can't be found a place.

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Speaker 1: I want to turn to young people. How would you

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Speaker 1: describe your party's relationship with young people?

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Speaker 4: It needs to improve, There's no doubt about that, and

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Speaker 4: I think part of that is meeting young people where

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Speaker 4: they are and listening carefully to what they're telling us

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Speaker 4: and not assuming that we know what they may seek

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Speaker 4: from their political representatives. And I want to do that

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Speaker 4: very sincerely and very openly. In the weeks and months ahead.

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Speaker 1: On the topic of young people, Labor is about to

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Speaker 1: introduce legislation specifically for young people to reduce student that

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Speaker 1: loans by twenty percent. Will the Coalition support that bill.

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Speaker 4: We're going to look at everything anew As I said

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Speaker 4: when I came into this position, we're not carrying policies forward.

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Speaker 4: We're going to pause and consider everything. So we will

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Speaker 4: consider that legislation as it comes forward. We haven't seen

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Speaker 4: it obviously, and when we do, we'll have a discussion

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Speaker 4: within our party room about how we respond to it.

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Speaker 1: So my understanding is that you have previously said that

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Speaker 1: you will reject that bill, But are you saying now

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Speaker 1: you could be open to supporting it.

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Speaker 4: Well, we haven't seen the bill, so I would never

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Speaker 4: say that I would orouldn't support something that we haven't

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Speaker 4: seen the details in legislation.

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Speaker 1: But in the past the Coalition has said that it

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Speaker 1: won't support it.

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Speaker 4: But in the past we said a lot of things.

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Speaker 4: What I said when we came into government was we're

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Speaker 4: going to review our policies.

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Speaker 1: And so you're saying you're open to supporting that bill.

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Speaker 4: We're open to looking at it. And every time someone

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Speaker 4: says to me, are you for this or against this?

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Speaker 4: Or you know, you know, do you believe this or that,

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Speaker 4: I say, look, we've got the time to get this

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Speaker 4: right and we need to take the time to get

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Speaker 4: it right.

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Speaker 1: So that's Labour's proposal to help young people. What's your proposal.

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Speaker 4: Well, we need to come up with proposals around housing,

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Speaker 4: around incomes, around the cost of rents that is skyrocketing,

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Speaker 4: about liverability in our capital cities. These are things that

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Speaker 4: young people are talking to me about already, but as

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Speaker 4: I said, I want to listen more and hear more.

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Speaker 1: Another issue that young people care a lot about is

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Speaker 1: climate change. You are a former environment minister and when

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Speaker 1: you were Environment minister, you were sued by a group

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Speaker 1: of young people who argued that you should have a

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Speaker 1: duty of care to protect them from climate change. Now,

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Speaker 1: they initially won that case, then you appealed and then

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Speaker 1: you eventually won. Why do you not believe that governments

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Speaker 1: should consider young people when making decisions and.

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Speaker 4: Never comment on cases that have been before the courts,

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Speaker 4: that particularly ones that I might have been involved in

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Speaker 4: in the executive government. And so I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: comment specifically on that case.

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Speaker 1: So okay, just ask a literacy question. It's over now,

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Speaker 1: so you can comment on it, right.

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Speaker 4: But I'm not going to comment on it, okay, because

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Speaker 4: that's just the cost. Because because going forward, I think

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Speaker 4: the most important thing is that we acknowledge that climate

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Speaker 4: change is very important to young people and it should

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Speaker 4: be very important to Australians in terms of the management

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Speaker 4: of our environment as well and in playing our part

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Speaker 4: to reduce global emissions. And when I was Environment Minister,

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Speaker 4: I was able to secure a billion dollars for the

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Speaker 4: Great Barrier Reef, which is about the catchments, about the oceans,

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Speaker 4: about a whole range of things. But because we had

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Speaker 4: the resources to do that, we were able to actively

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Speaker 4: protect such a critical, critical part of this country. Similarly

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Speaker 4: the things that we did in Antarctica and with threatened

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Speaker 4: species around the country. So I often talk to young

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Speaker 4: people about the environment and they're not always aware of

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Speaker 4: the things that we did, and I think it's important

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Speaker 4: too that when we do something well as a coalition,

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Speaker 4: that we reflect on that.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe putting the case aside, then do you

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Speaker 1: believe that government should consider young people when it's making

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Speaker 1: decisions about the environment.

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Speaker 4: I think all political parties should listen to young people,

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Speaker 4: but they should listen to everyone.

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Speaker 1: But listening is different to actively considering their perspective when

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Speaker 1: you're making decisions about the country.

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Speaker 4: Look, I understand that a lot of young people, in fact,

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Speaker 4: many young people that I talk to, do talk about

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Speaker 4: the environment, and do talk about climate change and do

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Speaker 4: talk about that importance. But again, I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: put all young people into one group and say they

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Speaker 4: all want this, they all want that, which you know,

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Speaker 4: we've got to be careful not to do that because

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Speaker 4: you know, if I walk around city, a big city,

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Speaker 4: I think the first thing people will talk about is

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Speaker 4: their cost of living and their rent. Right now, it

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Speaker 4: doesn't mean that these other things aren't important as well.

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Speaker 4: It just means I'm not going to land on where

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Speaker 4: we should or shouldn't be with policies going forward until

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Speaker 4: we've had that really thorough discussion.

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Speaker 1: Finally, Peter Dutton repeatedly rejected our interview requests. You are,

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Speaker 1: of course here and we very much appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Is there an acknowledgment that at the last election the

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Speaker 1: Coalition failed to adequately engage with young Australians.

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Speaker 4: I think so, yes, yes, I mean I've always been

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Speaker 4: happy to engage with you. But yes, I think we

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Speaker 4: do need to acknowledge that. And I think we need

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Speaker 4: to acknowledge that we didn't engage in a lot of

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Speaker 4: different areas. But it doesn't mean that everything we did

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Speaker 4: was wrong, but it does mean we need to review

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Speaker 4: what we did, and it does mean we need to

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Speaker 4: take the time to get it right going forward.

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Speaker 1: Is there one thing that you want to do differently

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Speaker 1: to your predecessor, Peter Dudden.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to reflect on Peter. We have different

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Speaker 4: styles and you know I wouldn't do that. This is

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Speaker 4: about the future. But I want to consult, I want

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Speaker 4: to listen, and I want to more broadly engage with

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Speaker 4: every single aspect of Australian society in every corner of

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Speaker 4: this country. So my model of leadership is a servant

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Speaker 4: leadership model, which is about doing what I can to

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Speaker 4: support the people around me so that we can all

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Speaker 4: together work hard for the Australian people.

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Speaker 1: Just lastly, you might have seen that at the last

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Speaker 1: election we tried to do a leader's debate. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to do the first ever youth focused leader's debate in Australia.

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Speaker 1: That did not get up because we could not get

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Speaker 1: into contact with Peter Dudden. But I want to get

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Speaker 1: in early for the next election. I'm wondering would you

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Speaker 1: commit to that for the next election.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure I shall. I'm sure I have no problem

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Speaker 4: with that.

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Speaker 1: I will be banging down your dots. Susan Lee, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Pleasure a really interesting chat. Thank you so much for that, Billy.

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Speaker 3: It'll be fascinating to see how Susan Lee's leadership molds

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Speaker 3: the Liberal Party that we're going to watch in opposition

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Speaker 3: for the next couple of years.

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Speaker 2: And thank you for joining us on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: To everybody listening out there, it really does mean a

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Speaker 3: lot when you tune in and listen and engage with

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Speaker 3: these political interviews. It helps us ultimately attract more politicians

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Speaker 3: coming onto the pod and do a really good job

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Speaker 3: for you guys.

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Speaker 2: That's all we've got time for We'll be back in

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Speaker 2: the afternoon with some headlines.

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Speaker 4: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Adunda

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Speaker 4: Bungelung Kalguttin woman from Gaddigol Country.

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Speaker 3: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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Speaker 3: the lands of the Gadigol people and pays respect to

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Speaker 3: all Aboriginal and Torrestrate island and nations.

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Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 1: both past and present.