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Speaker 1: But joining me in the studio right now is the

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Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner with the Northern Territory Police.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Michael Murphy.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Great have you on the show now. We have had

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions in the last couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: about public drunkenness and people sleeping rough around the city.

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Speaker 2: I think it's also out in Palmerston as well.

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Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner, is there an issue for police right now

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Speaker 1: when it comes to public drunkeness and people sleeping rough?

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Speaker 3: We definitely have a lot more people in Darwen and

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Speaker 3: Palmerston historically, and you can look at the conditions that

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Speaker 3: COVID has provided with communities exercising caution asking people not

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Speaker 3: to return to protect their communities. People staying in town

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Speaker 3: usually would see historically seven hundred plus people across the

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Speaker 3: Greater Darwen area sleeping rough. We have our bat and

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Speaker 3: Road facility which can house around four hundred people. At

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Speaker 3: the moment we're seeing around two thousand people in Darwen

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Speaker 3: and Palmerston areas sleeping rough, sleeping in on Crown Land,

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Speaker 3: in public spaces. A lot of these people aren't causing

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Speaker 3: a public nuisance. A small minority of them do drink excessively,

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Speaker 3: but it's cumulative. It's probably a number of factors need

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Speaker 3: to be considered about why people are here. I was

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Speaker 3: only walking around town the other day and my home

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Speaker 3: country are Underland. Homersburg is the families up from Hermitsburg

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Speaker 3: and they're here to access liquor. So we've got the

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Speaker 3: tighter constrictions around the Pali's doing excellent work across Catherine

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Speaker 3: Tenant and Alice Springs. We've had recently with the Biosecurity zones,

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Speaker 3: the Director of Licensing implement seven day restrictions for geographical

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Speaker 3: purchases to limit trafficking of liquor to remote communities. That's

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Speaker 3: definitely had an impact. Secondary supply is still a concern

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Speaker 3: for us in and around Darwin, but we have a

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Speaker 3: number of priorities across the Northern territy at the moment

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Speaker 3: not limited just of any social behavior, but domestic violence

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Speaker 3: is unprecedented.

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Speaker 1: The level still yeah, right, and does that sleeping rough

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Speaker 1: people being on the street, does that contribute to that?

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Speaker 3: Well, yes it does if they consume alcohol. Alcohol is

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Speaker 3: an enabler for a lot of our harm. We see

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Speaker 3: a lot of our frontline staff see alcohol as a

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Speaker 3: catalyst for harm. If it's not conducive to the harm,

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Speaker 3: it's actually making people vulnerable to other crime types such

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Speaker 3: as sexual violence and getting robbed at night or assaulted.

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Speaker 3: So it is challenging for us. But Northern chach of

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Speaker 3: Police we work in collaboration with the Council, Palmerston Council.

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Speaker 3: I met recently. I met with Palmerston Council last night.

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Speaker 3: We work closely with Darwin Council through the Public Order

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Speaker 3: and public social networks. We work with a lot of

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Speaker 3: angios as well across government with territory, Families, education and

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Speaker 3: health to look at proactive measures we can put about

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Speaker 3: returning people to country. If we can do that, that's

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Speaker 3: obviously has to be by consent. But we importantly we

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Speaker 3: work well, really well with Larrakia.

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Speaker 1: I mean, like you said, there's seven hundred plus people

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Speaker 1: is usually what you'd see.

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Speaker 2: Around Darwin at this time of the year.

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Speaker 1: But you're looking at two two thousand, more than two

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Speaker 1: thousand people at the moment who are around town, who

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Speaker 1: are here from those other areas, and do you think

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Speaker 1: in a lot of these cases that they are here

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Speaker 1: to access alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's not just alcohol. I think what we see

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Speaker 3: as a policing agency is most people come to our

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Speaker 3: attention once they're involving in that anti social behavior of

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Speaker 3: crime times. What we need to do better is because

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Speaker 3: we're twenty four to seven presents on the street, we

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Speaker 3: ask questions and we want to understand why, because it's

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Speaker 3: a perception too. Lots of people are sleeping rough and

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Speaker 3: in community space. It creates a perception whilst they're not

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Speaker 3: engaging in criminal behavior that creates some concern in citizens

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Speaker 3: that there's going to be fear or so we need

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Speaker 3: to understand that there's a lot of the COVID displacement

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Speaker 3: people from communities coming to Darwen not being able to return.

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Speaker 3: They don't want to return. The community's communicating and we

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Speaker 3: don't want you to return. The whole weather event too,

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Speaker 3: with a wet season at the top end and a

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Speaker 3: lot of weather events in Central Australia has moved people

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Speaker 3: up here as well.

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Speaker 1: And so I know obviously it's not the police role

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Speaker 1: to return peace home or return people to country, but

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Speaker 1: there needs to be some work across the board, by

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Speaker 1: the sounds of it, to try and get people back

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Speaker 1: back to their homes.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and look, that's a collective effort across the Northern

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Speaker 3: Territory through regional coordination groups at local levels, reuniting people

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Speaker 3: back in the community. The government obviously is working through

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Speaker 3: that space at the moment with the challenges around COVID

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Speaker 3: and making sure and as the message is that the

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Speaker 3: COVID infection is controlled in a way that won't overwhelm

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Speaker 3: the health system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because that's a real issue at the moment as well,

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Speaker 1: and that's something that we're going to talk about in

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Speaker 1: just a little while with the Nurses Union now. Also

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Speaker 1: this week, I know that there's been reports of police

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Speaker 1: calling for greater support. This is in the mental health space.

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Speaker 1: An ex police officers spoken to the ABC and called

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Speaker 1: for a public inquiry, similar to a recent Royal commission

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Speaker 1: which looked into Defense Force veterans suicides. There is no

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Speaker 1: doubt that policing's an incredibly tough job and I guess

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Speaker 1: I'm keen to find out firstly, is there enough support

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Speaker 1: for our police officers who are suffering from mental health issues.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's quite a challenging environment. We do

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Speaker 3: have support mechanisms in place in our police's agency. We've

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Speaker 3: got sixteen hundred officers who do a great job. They

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Speaker 3: do a tough job. They see things people don't want

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Speaker 3: to see. They hear things people don't want to hear.

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Speaker 3: Not usually, they see the worst side of community often

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Speaker 3: and it takes a toll on them. And what we

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Speaker 3: need to do is shake the stigma attached to shame

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Speaker 3: and a weakness, a perception of weakness and shame attached

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Speaker 3: to mental health and being able to speak out. And

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Speaker 3: the officers that have spoken out recently, I commend them,

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Speaker 3: and I need more of it. I need people to

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Speaker 3: come forward and make sure that it's okay not to

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Speaker 3: be okay.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that a lot?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that even in this day and age,

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Speaker 1: within the police force that you've got, You know, you've

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Speaker 1: got people who who think that there is shame in

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Speaker 1: speaking out and who maybe belittle others if they do

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Speaker 1: speak out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think it goes as far as belittling.

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Speaker 3: I think it's a change in culture and basically a

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Speaker 3: place of safety where people can engage. And we do

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Speaker 3: see that, we do see some people. We do have

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Speaker 3: so our organization has lots of line managers, it's very

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Speaker 3: structured in command and control. But we've got one hundred

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Speaker 3: and ninety three sergeants. I've got sixty senior sergeants, thirty superintendants,

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Speaker 3: eight commanders, five assistan commissioners, myself and Deputy Commissioner A small

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Speaker 3: Page and Commissioner Chalka who care about our people. We

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Speaker 3: care about our people. We've been there, we know what

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Speaker 3: it feels like to hurt, and we make sure that

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Speaker 3: they can talk about their problems and access services. We've

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Speaker 3: got the Health and well Being officers. We've got sixty

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Speaker 3: peer support offices across the agency, who are places of

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Speaker 3: safety where people can connect and talk about problems and

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Speaker 3: get a referral to our clinicians. And if they don't

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Speaker 3: feel comfortable talking in house to our clinicians, we can

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Speaker 3: outsource it to psychologists and they can feel safe and

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Speaker 3: it's confidential.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it must be bloody hard in some cases.

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Speaker 1: Like I know, for me, if I was suffering at work,

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Speaker 1: probably the last person not want to talk to is

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Speaker 1: my boss, to be honest, you know, like I'd probably

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Speaker 1: rather I'd probably feel more comfortable, you know, getting that

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Speaker 1: outside help.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think you know people will find although

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Speaker 3: you know, we have an open door policy. I'd speak

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Speaker 3: to our people every day. I just address the recruit squad.

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Speaker 3: When an officer gets assaulted, and sadly it happens often,

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Speaker 3: I reach out to them. The Commissioner reaches out to them,

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Speaker 3: the executive reaches out to them to make sure they're okay.

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Speaker 3: If I don't want to engage with me, they can

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Speaker 3: engage with my staff officer, they can speak to their

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Speaker 3: management team, as long as they speak to someone and

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Speaker 3: we offer those support services to them. It's finally important

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Speaker 3: that we change that and educate people that it's okay

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Speaker 3: to reach out and get those supports.

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Speaker 1: And you are confident that there is enough in the

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Speaker 1: way of those support services, or do you think there

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Speaker 1: should be a public inquiry here to you know, to

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Speaker 1: really nut it out and get to the bottom of it.

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Speaker 3: So a report's just been commissioned into review the mental

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Speaker 3: health and well being of our organization. That's subject to

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Speaker 3: a finaliation. Now numerous stakeholders. But while we focus on

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Speaker 3: serving officers and we've seen it from three officers this

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Speaker 3: week speaking publicly, it's about looking after our people who

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Speaker 3: leave the police force. There are retired police officers. The

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Speaker 3: Retired Police Association the Northern Territory Police Association are really

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Speaker 3: really strong on this issue too, and they should be.

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Speaker 3: So what we see is retired police officers who firmly

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Speaker 3: identify as being policed till the day they die. I've

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Speaker 3: been in pallative care with police officers who know and

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Speaker 3: respect and love their job when they're passing away. So

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Speaker 3: it's about providing that support to our people and the

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Speaker 3: job and the service and respecting what they've done for

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Speaker 3: community for sometimes forty plus years.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, it is an issue which no doubt we'll

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Speaker 1: talk more about. We might try and get the Association

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Speaker 1: on about it at some point. I want to just

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Speaker 1: take you to an issue which does continue to concern

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Speaker 1: a lot of Territorians and that's youth crime. We know

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Speaker 1: last week obviously police charge two male youths in relation

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Speaker 1: to an unlawful entry and also a stolen vehicle in Palmerston. Now,

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Speaker 1: in this incident, it got a lot of people pretty

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Speaker 1: concerned and a lot of people talking. It happened at

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Speaker 1: about two o'clock in the morning on the fifth of February.

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Speaker 1: We now know that a twelve year old and three

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Speaker 1: unidentified co offenders had allegedly unlawfully entered a property in

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Speaker 1: Molden and stole the keys to Amitsubishi Triton. The vehicle

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Speaker 1: was then observed driving dangerously before crashing in Milner the

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Speaker 1: same day. A ten year old was later identified as

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Speaker 1: a suspect in that stolen vehicle. There is no doubt

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Speaker 1: that this is an incredibly dangerous situation for these kids

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Speaker 1: to be in, but also an incredibly dangerous situation for

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Speaker 1: everyone on the roads.

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Speaker 2: Are these kids getting younger?

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Speaker 3: We are dealing with children as young as ten who

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Speaker 3: are offending install a motor vehicles and breaking the people's houses.

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Speaker 3: So what we're seeing is breaking into the largest asset

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Speaker 3: people are going to own to steal the second largest

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Speaker 3: asset they own. So a lot of the unlawf lunch

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Speaker 3: who we see accessing motive egles, the motive vehicles then

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Speaker 3: used in a group think where they think it's all

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Speaker 3: right as young males or sometimes females. And we saw

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Speaker 3: as recently as Cans on Valentine's Day, a mixture of

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Speaker 3: young males and females who stole the car and crash

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Speaker 3: that car and killing a passenger, a fourteen year old passenger.

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Speaker 3: It's very sad and it impacts the community, but it

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Speaker 3: is very risky behavior. They don't see it as risky behavior.

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Speaker 3: They see it as fun, they see it as challenging.

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Speaker 3: They want to go police into the shoots. We have

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Speaker 3: to risk assess the danger to community and what actions

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Speaker 3: we take. That car that was stolen from Palmerston crashed

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Speaker 3: in Milna, there was a number of use in there.

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Speaker 3: As you said, the twelve and the ten year old

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Speaker 3: have been identified and dealt with either through the diversion

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Speaker 3: of the criminal justice system. But youth offending is a

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Speaker 3: priority for us, and majority of youth are engaging in

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Speaker 3: property crime, breaking the people's houses, stealing their cars and

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Speaker 3: then causing trouble in vehicles through purshoots or other crime types,

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Speaker 3: and that's very risky behindha, they're not well developed minds.

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Speaker 3: They're engaging in behaviors they're dangerous. They don't understand the

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Speaker 3: enormity of it. But again that's about education and the

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Speaker 3: work we do across government with territory, families and education

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Speaker 3: to make sure people are doing the right thing, understand

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Speaker 3: the harmful behaviors. And while we see youth crime, it's

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Speaker 3: the Perido principle where a minority of kids are reoffending constantly.

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Speaker 3: We see the youth detention facilities are full because of

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Speaker 3: the youth reforms that we're introduced, so that's taken away

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Speaker 3: a lot of the recidibus defenders off the street. We

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Speaker 3: see people we haven't identified, haven't offended previously, coming to

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Speaker 3: our attention. We need to understand that better and make

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Speaker 3: sure they're engaged. A lot of the kids aren't attending education,

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Speaker 3: so they need to basically, and it comes down to boredom,

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Speaker 3: and they've got the group think and a lot of

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Speaker 3: the times and I've touched those things on this earlier.

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Speaker 3: Kids leave the home because there's domestic violence. So home

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Speaker 3: is in a safe place, it's overcrowded, there's domestic violence,

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Speaker 3: so they get out of the home to go enter

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Speaker 3: a public space with other people to engage in harmful behaviors.

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Speaker 2: What do we do here?

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Speaker 1: And I know that there's no sort of really easy answer.

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Speaker 2: We all understand that.

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Speaker 1: But it does certainly seem as though the police are

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Speaker 1: going out they are apprehending these young people. In some instances,

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Speaker 1: like you said, as young as ten years old.

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Speaker 2: They're being apprehended, being arrested.

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Speaker 1: In some cases they're winding up then in don Dale,

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Speaker 1: but it continues to be an issue. So is there

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Speaker 1: enough support in place? Is there enough programs in place

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Speaker 1: for some of those families? And I know that obviously

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Speaker 1: you're with the police, not those support services, but is

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Speaker 1: there enough there to really try and make some inroads

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Speaker 1: in this space.

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Speaker 3: We have a vest in interest. Although it's not our space,

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Speaker 3: we actually own the diversion area of the Act, so

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Speaker 3: we have a vested interest in seeing children succeed. And

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Speaker 3: I think the victim offender conferences is a pretty powerful

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Speaker 3: way to understand impacts and harm. There are a number

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Speaker 3: of pathways that are controlled by other agencies where you

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Speaker 3: invest in, but it's about the youth making the conscious

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Speaker 3: decision to involve themselves in it. And it comes down

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Speaker 3: the family responsibily to and that leadership from and traditional owners.

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Speaker 3: They are a key player in this and they do

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Speaker 3: step up and try and influence. It's connection to culture

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Speaker 3: and it goes back to when COVID virtually came in

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty. We saw a connection back to culture

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Speaker 3: and crime rates drop. We saw halfule behaviors minimize and

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Speaker 3: kids go back to culture, song lines and fishing, you know,

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Speaker 3: the basics that stop boredom and stop halful behaviors. So

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Speaker 3: there are obviously different ways of thinking, but there's lots

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Speaker 3: of players that can step up and help us achieve

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Speaker 3: what we need to achieve to stop kids engaging in

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Speaker 3: criminal behavior.

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Speaker 1: Well, Deputy Police Commissioner of Operations and Road Safety, Michael Murphy,

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Speaker 1: we always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming in this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, thank you