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Speaker 1: Get a.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laala Berry, nutritionist, author, actor, TV presenter, and professional overshaer.

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Speaker 2: This podcast is all about celebrating failure because I believe

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Speaker 2: it's a chance for us to learn, grow and face

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Speaker 2: our blind spots. Each week I'll interview a different guest

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Speaker 2: about their highs.

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Speaker 1: As well as their lows, all in a bid to

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Speaker 1: inspire us to fearlessly fail.

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Speaker 2: Right Oh, on the pod today we have the awesome

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Speaker 2: Sean Zepps. He's just written a book called Not Like

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Speaker 2: Other Dads. I've been dreaded in two and a half days.

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Speaker 2: It came with me everywhere audition rooms, Saunas.

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Speaker 1: I just hasn't left my side in my car on

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Speaker 1: the way to work.

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Speaker 2: I didn't read when I was driving, of course, just

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Speaker 2: so you know, but it hasn't left my side.

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Speaker 1: And I've loved every page of this book. It's officially out.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm going to put all the links to getting

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Speaker 2: it in the show notes.

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Speaker 1: Now. In this chat, Sean and.

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Speaker 2: I talk about love, talk about his dreams, passions, talk

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Speaker 2: about IVF, surrogacy.

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Speaker 1: And actually I'm going to read on the top of

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Speaker 1: the book.

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Speaker 2: It puts it gives a taste of Sean and I

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Speaker 2: guess not only this book, but also what we talked

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Speaker 2: about in the chat, a fearless, frank, and funny memoir

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Speaker 2: about reinventing the rules of parenting. Sean's funny but also

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Speaker 2: really open and honest and courageous and vulnerable. We talk

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Speaker 2: about mental health, we talk about the tough side of

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Speaker 2: parenting that he experienced, and he just shares it as

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Speaker 2: as we say, warts and all, Like, what you see

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Speaker 2: is what you get.

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Speaker 1: Sean.

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Speaker 2: You are an incredible human being. It's been a total

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Speaker 2: honor to sit and chat with you. I'm recording this

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Speaker 2: introduction right off the back of our chat and our interview,

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Speaker 2: and You're just an amazing human being.

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Speaker 1: My friend.

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Speaker 2: Also, can I please be a friend? I were the

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Speaker 2: first time I ever met Sean. We were on an

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Speaker 2: influencer gig and I was like, Oh, I'd love to

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Speaker 2: be your friend.

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Speaker 1: Please.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm going to dive into this pod. I hope

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Speaker 2: you love it. Sean is incredible. The book is officially

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Speaker 2: out now at all good bookstores. There's going to be

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Speaker 2: links for sign copies from book Topia, you name it.

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Speaker 2: Enjoy this chat and please support Sean, get the book,

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Speaker 2: recommend your mate, all that jazz. Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for listening to this pod. Of course it wouldn't exist

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Speaker 2: without you the listener, so thank you and enjoy.

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Speaker 1: You knowh just want to pop in here and do

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Speaker 1: a little ps. Trigger warning.

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Speaker 2: We do talk about mental health topics at the end

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Speaker 2: of this podcast. We talk about anxiety, depression, self harm,

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Speaker 2: and I just want to give you the heads up

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Speaker 2: if that is at all triggering, So trigger warning here.

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Speaker 2: And I really do hope that you gain something from

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Speaker 2: this pod. I know that I did, so there you go.

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Speaker 2: Hooru meg a love boy.

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Speaker 1: Short zeps. I'm actually really nervous to be interviewing you

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Speaker 1: right now. Do you know that?

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Speaker 3: No, I did not know that. I'm also shocked. I

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Speaker 3: don't even know you got nervous.

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Speaker 1: Really, Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: As a fellow creative, I feel like you would get

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Speaker 2: the nervy thing, or at least like understand the nervy thing.

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Speaker 2: But I think because I have literally, in the last

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Speaker 2: fifteen minutes just finished binge reading your incredible book. Not

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Speaker 2: like other dads, it's been it's come to the sauna

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Speaker 2: with me, it's come to auditions with me. I'm living

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Speaker 2: in lam it's been in my bat like, what a

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Speaker 2: ripper of a book, my friend, congratulations, thank you, that's right.

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Speaker 1: This is the week.

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Speaker 2: This is like the time that it's live and out

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Speaker 2: in the world. How on earth are you feeling, my friend?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, Like I feel like I need it.

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Speaker 3: I need some therapy to unpick how I maybe how

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Speaker 3: I should be feeling. I have this then where I

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Speaker 3: find it impossible to regurgitate scripts you're supposed to regurgitate.

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Speaker 3: So when people say that it's a good thing, I think

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Speaker 3: it's a good thing too. But people struggle with it.

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Speaker 3: Right when when you go on a holiday and it

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Speaker 3: wasn't good and you come back and people say, how

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Speaker 3: is your holiday? I'm the person who's like, it wasn't good,

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Speaker 3: And then the person on the other side like, uh,

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Speaker 3: and so I like that you have no filter. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I can't help it. And people really want me to

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Speaker 3: be like, I am so excited. This has been such

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Speaker 3: a monumental journey, and I'm so but right now I'm

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Speaker 3: feeling like I just want it to get over with.

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Speaker 3: And I don't mean that in a negative way. What

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Speaker 3: I mean is, as you would know as an author,

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Speaker 3: this journey is not short. It is long, and so

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Speaker 3: by the time you get to the actual release, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I've been on an emotional journey. Girl. My hairs are gray.

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Speaker 3: I've gone in and out of therapy. I've loved, I've lost,

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Speaker 3: I've fought. So I'm just like, can we just get

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Speaker 3: this out into the wild so other people can read

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Speaker 3: my words that aren't married to me and forced to

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Speaker 3: tell me it's good?

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love.

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Speaker 2: I have a feeling that Josh would be very honest

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Speaker 2: with you, just hearing like the way you guys are together.

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Speaker 2: I've also skipped, not skipped, and I usually it is

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Speaker 2: an intro, but you have done some absolutely amazing things

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Speaker 2: your pod well, can I.

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Speaker 1: Say multiple pods because I feel like.

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Speaker 2: Amazing phenoms and I want to say to me you

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Speaker 2: are such I want to use the word king, but

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Speaker 2: like such a huge part or a person in the

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Speaker 2: parenting media landscape, especially within Australia.

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Speaker 1: That which is where I have got to know you.

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Speaker 2: And we met randomly on a bus together and I

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Speaker 2: remembered sat sitting next to you and I was like,

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Speaker 2: within about five minutes, I was like, Okay, this person

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Speaker 2: is extremely funny, extremely smart, has great fashion. You I

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Speaker 2: remember you were wearing like a really cute little tie

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Speaker 2: around your neck, like you look so cute.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Yes, thank you, he says, yes exactly, And

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Speaker 1: I just was.

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Speaker 2: Like hot and dad to two awesome twins, Steala and Coopers.

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Speaker 2: So okay, that was my very very ramboly introduction to you,

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Speaker 2: in case you can't tell, I think you're pretty awesome.

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Speaker 1: So no, no, So I actually want to go back.

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Speaker 2: A little bit, if that's okay with you, because I

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Speaker 2: knew when I met you, I was like, oh, very

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Speaker 2: creative human being. And then to read in the book

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Speaker 2: and learn about this musical theater, this dance, this kind

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Speaker 2: of like super.

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Speaker 1: Creative side of you.

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Speaker 2: Can you share a bit about where that passion stem from?

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Speaker 2: And then obviously I want to hear all the things,

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Speaker 2: but I just I'm fascinated by this. Yeah, the musical theater,

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Speaker 2: the dance, all that kind of like dreamy actal life

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Oh. I'm so glad we unpicked up because if I

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Speaker 3: hadn't written a book, it would have aligned very perfectly

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Speaker 3: with your show in general. Because I failed fearlessly in

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Speaker 3: my pursuit of being a performer. So when I was

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Speaker 3: like two, my mom noticed that I was so drawn

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Speaker 3: to Disney characters, like so obsessed with Disney, and I

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Speaker 3: would before I could communicate, like walk up to the

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Speaker 3: VHS's of Little Mermaid and beautying the Beasts, and I

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Speaker 3: would yank them out and like handed to her over

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Speaker 3: and over again. And when I would dance and when

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Speaker 3: I would sing, my mom was like, this kid sounds

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Speaker 3: like he's hitting the notes that are being played in

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Speaker 3: the video. Now, my mom and dad aren't really singers,

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Speaker 3: but they were like, it doesn't take like an expert

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Speaker 3: to know like, okay, his pitch is spot on. And

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Speaker 3: when I was dancing around the living room, they were like,

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Speaker 3: this is someone who should be moving for a living.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I grew up in the church, and so very early

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Speaker 3: on they would hear a passion and excitement for the

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Speaker 3: church hymns, and so they just put two and two together.

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Speaker 3: Long before sexuality came into play, and long before adults

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Speaker 3: even start to thrust the word feminine or flamboyant onto

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Speaker 3: a young child, they were like, well, we're parents observing

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Speaker 3: a child who clearly has a passion and the strength

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Speaker 3: and this expertise. So they put me in dance lessons

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Speaker 3: and the Church musical between the ages of four and five,

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Speaker 3: and that is when my two decade long career in

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Speaker 3: dancing and singing and acting began. I danced from the

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Speaker 3: ages of five until twenty three. I went to university

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Speaker 3: for musical theater and dance. I sang professionally. I was

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Speaker 3: in the choir, the All State Choir, the Jazz Choir.

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Speaker 3: Started working and getting paid to be in musical theater

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Speaker 3: when I was in middle school. Whenever tours would like

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Speaker 3: come through my local town, I would be in Joseph

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Speaker 3: and the Technicolor dream Coats as like boy number three

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Speaker 3: hundred and eleven who sat in the pew, you know.

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Speaker 3: And I was really sure, like listen, every form I

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Speaker 3: filled out in school that said what do you want

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Speaker 3: to be when you grow up? It was always a

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Speaker 3: Broadway star. It was always a singer or a dancer.

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Speaker 3: And I really dedicated my entire first half of my

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Speaker 3: twenties and university days to just mastering those skills, so

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Speaker 3: really truly just out of the womb dancing and singing,

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Speaker 3: and all the way up until I moved to New

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Speaker 3: York City. I thought that's what I'm going to dedicate

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Speaker 3: the rest of my life to.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and of course New York City is like the

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Speaker 2: Holy Grail. It's where if you're going to go, You're

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Speaker 2: gonna go to New York City.

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Speaker 1: Is it true? Well, I know it is because I'm

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Speaker 1: read in your book.

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Speaker 2: But like you had this audition, You're in New York City,

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Speaker 2: had this audition, you got cut so I didn't get cast,

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Speaker 2: and then you're out at a bar drinking your sorrows,

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Speaker 2: drowning your sorrows. Enter Josh making a joke about as

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Speaker 2: you giving your hat back to Santa.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's so funny. You couldn't write it. You couldn't

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Speaker 3: write it better. Like here's the first great love of

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Speaker 3: my life, musical theater which crumbled, crashed and burned in

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Speaker 3: New York City. It became this like insane anxiety that

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Speaker 3: caused me so much tension inside. It was the only

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Speaker 3: thing I had ever done. It was the thing the

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Speaker 3: world told me I was good at, and yet I

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Speaker 3: was actually cut out for the pursuit. As you can understand,

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Speaker 3: being talented is literally one one hundredth of banking it

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Speaker 3: in la or New York City. You have to have drive,

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Speaker 3: you have to have belief in yourself. You have to

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Speaker 3: have a complete confidence and a lack of stability, and

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Speaker 3: at that time in my life, I didn't. So that

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Speaker 3: was just starting when I was in New York where

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Speaker 3: I'm going to these auditions and I'm being cut because

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Speaker 3: I'm too short or too tall or too fat or

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Speaker 3: i can't turn enough times. I think that audition was

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Speaker 3: for newsies, if I recall, and they were having boys

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Speaker 3: just do pirouets at the end, and I was next

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Speaker 3: to like a ten year old I mean, I'm sure

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Speaker 3: he was actually fourteen or fifteen, but they were just

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Speaker 3: going down the line and they were like doing it

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Speaker 3: as many piro weets as you can. And I was like, well,

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Speaker 3: I'm a professional dancer, Like watch me do seven. And

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Speaker 3: so I like fell out of six maybe, which to

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Speaker 3: most people is amazing. But this little boy next to

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Speaker 3: me did forty two, right. He just kept turning and

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Speaker 3: turning and turning. And so I got cut right after that,

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Speaker 3: and so I just went to the bar like with

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Speaker 3: my best friend, and I was like, am I gonna

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Speaker 3: be able to do this? This is terrible? And then

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Speaker 3: in walks this Australian man who becomes the next great

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Speaker 3: love of my life. So it's almost like one, like

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Speaker 3: the fact that we met on that day is just

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Speaker 3: so picture perfect.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love it.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell the Santa Colton wants his hat backs?

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Speaker 1: So I love it so and like to come out

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Speaker 1: of an Aussie like an Aussie's.

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Speaker 2: Voice saying that as well to like you being so

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Speaker 2: like probably in New York, bright eyed, like yes you've

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Speaker 2: been cut that day, but like like I just love

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Speaker 2: this story.

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Speaker 1: Can you share?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely? So I'm in the bar and I have to

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Speaker 3: like paint the picture for anyone who didn't grow up

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Speaker 3: in a city. So I'm not a city kid. Up

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Speaker 3: until that point, I had never spent time in a

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Speaker 3: big city before. Like the largest I had been to

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Speaker 3: would have been my local city of Conquered New Hampshire

245
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Speaker 3: and had one gay bar an hour drive away from

246
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Speaker 3: me and the and the busiest night would have been

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Speaker 3: like forty patrons. So here I am in New York

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Speaker 3: City and Hell's Kitchen at a three story gay bar

249
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Speaker 3: that every single floor probably has a thousand Twinks shirtless

250
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Speaker 3: covered in glitter. Lady Gaga's born this way is like

251
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Speaker 3: blasting over the loudspeaker. I've had four drinks for any

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Speaker 3: Aussies listening like Americans have free pores. So the drinks

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Speaker 3: are strong, you only need three, and you're having the

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Speaker 3: best night of your life. And so I'm buzzing. I'm

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Speaker 3: looking all around me, and for the first time, probably

256
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Speaker 3: in my life, I was surrounded by a group of people.

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Speaker 1: Just like me.

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Speaker 3: I had this moment of like, oh my god, this

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Speaker 3: is the beginning of my life. Like I for the

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Speaker 3: first time, I'm going to be in a city surrounded

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Speaker 3: by people who love like me, who fuck like me,

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Speaker 3: and who have experienced loss and fear and homophobia like me.

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Speaker 3: And I just remember in that moment being in the

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Speaker 3: line for the bathroom, thinking, as corny as it was,

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Speaker 3: this is the beginning of your life. This is it

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Speaker 3: everything before this, all the hardship is over. This is

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Speaker 3: gonna be fun. And right as that moment happened, here

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Speaker 3: comes this brit I'm thinking he's British at the time,

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Speaker 3: and he's like my Santa Claus call, he wants his

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Speaker 3: hat back and just bereezes past me, just looks at

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Speaker 3: me with like a wink in his eye, and I

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Speaker 3: couldn't think of what to say. I did have a

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Speaker 3: red beanie on which I literally still have. It's upstairs

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Speaker 3: in a special box. And I just looked at this

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Speaker 3: handsome little shit. He's so hot, his blue eyes like

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Speaker 3: bursting through me, and here he is dragging my fashion sense,

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Speaker 3: and I couldn't think of what to say, so I

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Speaker 3: just yelled back fuck you as loud as I could,

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Speaker 3: and he disappeared. He just walked away. He literally just

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00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:47,600
Speaker 3: passed me by, made fun of my outfit, and then

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Speaker 3: disappeared into the abyss.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, and that became And I love how much.

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Speaker 1: You share your beautiful romance and love.

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Speaker 2: Story throughout this book, like it was I just oh

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Speaker 2: loved reading and like moments where like Josh lost his

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Speaker 2: phone at one point, so you're like, well, that's it.

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Speaker 1: I've been ghosted. That's it done.

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Speaker 2: You know, like neck a minute, you know, like you're

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Speaker 2: getting a three piece suit for your next date.

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Speaker 1: Like I love how much.

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Speaker 2: You share this like beautiful love with like two people

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Speaker 2: that it feels like.

293
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Speaker 1: Yes, like.

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Speaker 2: He's in a pod, but also like quite yin and yang,

295
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Speaker 2: like quite like.

296
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Speaker 1: Even in the way that you too think.

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Speaker 2: I feel like like there is like this one person

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Speaker 2: that's like really into human behavior and another person's into

299
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 2: human behavior for a completely different set of reasons and

300
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,760
Speaker 2: somehow just works right. And I guess what I really

301
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 2: wanted to unpack a little bit was at some point

302
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Speaker 2: I think Josh said to you, like I think I

303
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Speaker 2: want to have kids, and you're like, well, you're you're

304
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 2: with the wrong man. That's And then as I was

305
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 2: reading that, I was like, if I read this wrong,

306
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,360
Speaker 2: because at the start of the book, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: is it missus pots off, Beauty and the Beast, And

308
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 2: you're like, that's it. Got to be your mother, got it,

309
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,040
Speaker 2: got it's hack, got to have it. And so I guess,

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Speaker 2: and I know it's probably like a whole book within

311
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 2: itself or a whole pod series in itself, but that

312
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:31,760
Speaker 2: journey of you being like, Okay, well no kids at marriage,

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to be it's not going to happen

314
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Speaker 2: for me, and kids aren't going to happen for me

315
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Speaker 2: purely because of my sexually so I'm just going to

316
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Speaker 2: protect myself and not let that be an option. And

317
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Speaker 2: then this journey where you've started to go hang on

318
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Speaker 2: a sec like this could be my own internalized stuff

319
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Speaker 2: that's not letting me actually live the truth that I

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Speaker 2: really want to live?

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Speaker 1: Can you share a little bit about that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you really hit the nail on the before I

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Speaker 3: dive into the story. Josh and I are polar opposites.

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Speaker 3: Like you're right, we are two piece in a pod

325
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,120
Speaker 3: and our relationship works perfectly, but we're just so different.

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Speaker 3: And one of the foundational differences. I was an outrelyf

327
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Speaker 3: flamboyant young child. The world saw me as gay and

328
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 3: told me I was before I knew what it was.

329
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 3: And Josh presents as very straight. And because of that,

330
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Speaker 3: never experienced homophobia growing up as a small child and

331
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,280
Speaker 3: never had to kind of like fight with who he

332
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,639
Speaker 3: was in such an intense way. He came out of

333
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,639
Speaker 3: the closet when he was in his late twenties and

334
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 3: I came out of the closet when I was in

335
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 3: high school. And because of that, our entire experience to self,

336
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 3: our experience to love, our experience to the potential of

337
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,720
Speaker 3: parenthood is just totally different, because we were wired differently

338
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 3: based off of society. And so if you take a

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00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:57,080
Speaker 3: really big step back my story, it is required reading

340
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 3: to know and understand that I was raised really so

341
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Speaker 3: I was raised in a very strict Roman Catholic family

342
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Speaker 3: strict in the sense that they believed it, not strict

343
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,520
Speaker 3: in any like physical or nasty way, but that Bible

344
00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,960
Speaker 3: was really important and the teachings of Jesus Christ was

345
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,439
Speaker 3: just such a foundational pillar to who I was, so

346
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 3: long before I realized I was gay or even knew

347
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,119
Speaker 3: what gay was. Yeah, all my earliest kind of obsessions

348
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 3: were with women who had children, and I never really

349
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 3: understood it, and either did my parents. But when my

350
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,400
Speaker 3: mom would be like, yeah, you guys all loved Disney.

351
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,239
Speaker 3: Your brother was obsessed with Buzz Lightyear, and you were

352
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,520
Speaker 3: obsessed with Missus Potts, or you were obsessed with Dedi

353
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 3: pickles from the Rugrats, Like we would watch The Brady

354
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,439
Speaker 3: Bunch and you were obsessed with the mother. And it

355
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,840
Speaker 3: was just this constant stream in my life of I

356
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,919
Speaker 3: really just knew deep down inside that the mother was

357
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 3: actually the main character. She was the one behind closed door,

358
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,439
Speaker 3: is getting everything done, and I just it was so fascinating.

359
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 3: Even though I was a young boy and absolutely identify

360
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,480
Speaker 3: as a man today, I just was like, I don't

361
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 3: want to be the dude who just leaves the house

362
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,120
Speaker 3: and gets paid and comes back and drinks a beer

363
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 3: on a couch. That's not sexy to me. Look at

364
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,240
Speaker 3: this woman holding everything together. I want to be her.

365
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 3: And so I really started my life like a lot

366
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,680
Speaker 3: of my early core memories are my obsession with my mother,

367
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,600
Speaker 3: my obsession with my grandmother, my obsession with my abuela,

368
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,760
Speaker 3: which is a Spanish grandmother, and all of these characters

369
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,960
Speaker 3: that were women, and all of that really runs true

370
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,400
Speaker 3: for most of my life until the day I realize

371
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 3: that I'm gay. And when I realize that I'm gay,

372
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 3: I know immediately it's not an inference, it's not a hypothesis.

373
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,400
Speaker 3: It's a fact that I'm not going to be able

374
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,200
Speaker 3: to become a parent. There's no examples for me out

375
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 3: in the world. There's no proof, and if you do

376
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 3: hear about it, it's very negative. And so I thought

377
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,080
Speaker 3: for little bit, I thought, Okay, well, you'll be a father,

378
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 3: so get rid of your motherhood dream and you'll be closeted.

379
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,679
Speaker 3: But I had too much tension as I got older

380
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 3: around whether or not that would be appropriate. Do I

381
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 3: want to live a life as a lie? And so

382
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,440
Speaker 3: obviously I write about this in detail in the book,

383
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 3: and so people will have to read it to understand

384
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 3: all the nuance. But I guess deciding to walk away

385
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 3: from the church, choosing to not live a life of

386
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 3: a lie, feeling that that was no longer an option

387
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 3: for me, coming to terms quite early on with the

388
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,199
Speaker 3: fact that I would ruin a girl's life if I

389
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 3: did that. I had enough empathy to be able to

390
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,200
Speaker 3: look in my girlfriend's eyes at the time and realize

391
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,320
Speaker 3: that she was also the main character of her own story.

392
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 3: And I didn't want to leave in my past and

393
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 3: the dust these women with like emotional trauma about being

394
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 3: lied to for their whole lives, and I just decided, well,

395
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie to women. I have to speak

396
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 3: my truth. Being gay, I can't be a part of

397
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 3: the church. And that just meant, in a moment, in

398
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 3: an instant, that all that fantasy about being a mother

399
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 3: as a child had to disappear, it had to go away.

400
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,199
Speaker 3: It just needed to be put in the past. And

401
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 3: so by the time I had met Josh, I had

402
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 3: developed an entire personality, babe, like, literally, my whole personality

403
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,760
Speaker 3: is this joking stick about like parenthood, leave that to

404
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 3: the streets. It just became like such an identity was

405
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:38,560
Speaker 3: like I'm gay. I'm proud of it. Parents are only

406
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 3: breeders who are straight and I'm not one of those,

407
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,040
Speaker 3: so ha ha ha ha ha. That's not for me.

408
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 3: And so when Josh said he wanted to have kids,

409
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:47,639
Speaker 3: I was like, choose someone else, babe.

410
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,760
Speaker 1: So what changed you? When did those tables turn?

411
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 2: Because I've heard you both say that it almost switched around,

412
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,160
Speaker 2: Like Josh was kind of like, yeah, okay, we don't

413
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 2: need to have kids, and You're like, actually, and because

414
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 2: I know it was like choices like oh, I'm skipping

415
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 2: your beautiful engagement by the way, Oh my goodness.

416
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: And I love that you're a cryer.

417
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 3: All the time. The whole book is basically me crying.

418
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 1: But I guess, like, what for you?

419
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 2: Was it like the love that you and Josh shared

420
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 2: or was it that you were like the world felt

421
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,959
Speaker 2: like it was beginning to open up a little bit

422
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 2: and you're like, no, this is something that can be

423
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 2: a reality for us.

424
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 1: What made your I guess.

425
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,919
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you're You're like it's like it's it was

426
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 2: a core thing that you've always wanted.

427
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: But it's like to really sit with that and go,

428
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: hang on.

429
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 2: I've been protecting myself all these years just to survive, essentially, like,

430
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 2: do you remember that what it was for you that

431
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 2: kind of went okay, No, No, I'm I am going

432
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: to open this stream again and I'm going to give

433
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: it my old.

434
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: It's really impossible to pick like the origin story of

435
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,479
Speaker 3: the change because two things happened at the exact same time. So,

436
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 3: prior to Josh and I getting engaged, it wasn't legal

437
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 3: to be married. It wasn't legal in Australia, and it

438
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 3: wasn't legal in the state we were living in in

439
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,239
Speaker 3: New York, and so I just didn't allow myself to

440
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: fantasize about it because it wasn't legal. I wasn't at

441
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 3: the forefront, a powerful advocate, passionately involved in politics and

442
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 3: therefore aware of what could occur in the future. I

443
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 3: was just a random gay kid from a smallish town

444
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 3: in New Hampshire who had all these boyfriends one after another,

445
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 3: but knew in every relationship that marriage wasn't an option.

446
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 3: So I never would have allowed myself to fantasize because

447
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 3: that would cost too much pain. Why would I pretend

448
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 3: to want something that I probably will never have? And

449
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 3: that is really just deck Aids up until that point

450
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 3: of so much internalized homophobia that who I am as

451
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,440
Speaker 3: bad and who I am is not good, and who

452
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 3: I am as not normal, and again, your identity as

453
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 3: a queer person at that time as you would basically

454
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 3: just make self sacrifices, and one of those was that

455
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 3: potential future, and you just replace it with other things

456
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 3: that are more fun. So my comedy like, I'm a

457
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 3: very very very funny person, but I'm a funny person.

458
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 3: I'm a funny person because of pain, right, so many

459
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: funny people are like it comes from such a place

460
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 3: of and my humor has always been basically four straight

461
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 3: people about being gay. I was the one who would

462
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 3: like beat people to the punch so that they didn't

463
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,439
Speaker 3: have to like have those jokes. And so much of

464
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 3: my foundational comedy routine was around I'm the cool gay

465
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 3: kid who doesn't want what you have basically, and so

466
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 3: up until meeting Josh, I just was like, well, I'm

467
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 3: not going to revisit this. And then of course I

468
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 3: I fall in love with this man and it like

469
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: shakes me to my core. It's one of those relationships

470
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 3: that you know, everyone hopes they'll one day find, but

471
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 3: it just like shook me, shook me, shook me so

472
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 3: intensely that all of a sudden, the idea of what

473
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: society said was right or wrong was no longer valid

474
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: or it didn't matter to me so much so that

475
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:24,639
Speaker 3: I remember thinking, well, we'll get married anyways, it doesn't

476
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 3: matter if it's legal, Like you start to just feel

477
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 3: this like pulled towards this person, and so yeah, Josh

478
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 3: and I switch places because of our love. Josh loved

479
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 3: me so much and wasn't willing to lose me that

480
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: he was willing to sacrifice the potential of not having children,

481
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: and I loved him so much that I was willing

482
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 3: to rethink it. And it just so happened that right

483
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 3: as we got engaged, gay marriage gets legalized, not just

484
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 3: in New York, but very shortly after the entire of

485
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 3: the United States. And then right when we get married,

486
00:25:56,280 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, this narrative around in sarrogacy starts

487
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 3: to pop up in the US media. And then when

488
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 3: we move to Australia, two weeks after we move, the

489
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 3: plebiscite occurs. So it's literally like, at every stage of

490
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: my life of this love story with this man, the

491
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: world is changing in front of my eyes and is

492
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: forcing me to revisit that little boy in New Hampshire,

493
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 3: to go back to that little kid's dreams and go

494
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: you have suppressed these fantasies that have always been there.

495
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 3: You have been lying to yourself and to everyone around you,

496
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 3: pretending you don't want these things just because you couldn't

497
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 3: have it. I had a best friend I write about

498
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 3: it in the book who turned to me and said,

499
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 3: you don't want that because you actually don't, or because

500
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: the world hasn't let you. And that was like a

501
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 3: big moment for me to kind of go, oh, oh,

502
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: so yeah, I guess I don't know. I guess it's

503
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 3: falling in love and the world changing at the exact

504
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 3: same time. That opened my eyes to the fact that

505
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 3: I've always wanted this all along. There was never a

506
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 3: time that I didn't. I was just pretending.

507
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 2: And I also think like a bucketload of courage because

508
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: to go through I've only had a small experience with

509
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: the IVF experience through freezing eggs and embryos, which is

510
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 2: a little piece of the puzzle that you've been through

511
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 2: with Surregacy, IVF egg donor Holy Mackerel. It is a

512
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 2: very full on you describe it this exact way as well.

513
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 2: It is emotionally draining, it is financially draining. I think

514
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: currently in Australia it's illegal to pay a surrogate to like,

515
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: you know, carry bambinos. So can you share a little

516
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: bit about that journey and how you have been lucky

517
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 2: enough to have a family member's donor eggs?

518
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 1: So I love that.

519
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 2: I like, I love that that it was even a

520
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: way that you could both be so biologically connected through

521
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 2: this whole process.

522
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's such a story. But basically, as IVF and

523
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 3: surrogacy has developed, the IVF process just requires a egg

524
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 3: and a sperm to be pulled together into an embryo

525
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 3: for a child to be made. And through the process

526
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 3: of women not being able to conceive naturally, they experimented

527
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: with write a donor egg some other egg, and over

528
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: the course of the last few decades, as that has

529
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 3: become popularized, you've had doctors who have said, well, wait

530
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 3: a second, if we like, why couldn't queer people follow

531
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 3: the exact same process, And so they started to kind

532
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 3: of market to queer communities basically saying, well, you can

533
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 3: go through the traditional IVF process as a straight couple

534
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 3: normally would you can take egg don't nation from anywhere,

535
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: from an egg donation bank, from someone related to you.

536
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 3: It's totally up to you. And the sperm can come

537
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 3: from anywhere. It could come from one of you, but

538
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 3: it could also come from a sperm bank, and then

539
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: together that can be implemented into you as a woman

540
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: or into a surrogate. And so really there are just

541
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 3: like so many moving pieces because there are so many

542
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 3: people involved in a traditional process. The man can be

543
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to say the problem, but I don't mean

544
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 3: it in a negative way. That can be the one

545
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 3: that's making it not possible for the family to be created.

546
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's the woman. Sometimes the woman is able to

547
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 3: provide eggs, but she can't carry because of some Yeah,

548
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 3: there's so many components and so yeah, basically anything is

549
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 3: possible with the right amount of money and the right doctors.

550
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 3: And so there's a just a ton of privilege attached

551
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 3: to this. But I had found an article in the newspaper.

552
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 3: I think it was a New York Times, but I

553
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 3: know for a fact it was an Australian and it

554
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: was a Australian sister who I think had donated for

555
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 3: her brother and I read that and was like, oh

556
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 3: my god, and I sent it just like was not ashamed.

557
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: I sent it to everyone, every woman who was related

558
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 3: to me, and then all of my best friends, all

559
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 3: my best girlfriends, and I like, I'm a little embarrassed

560
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: to think about it now, but I was like just

561
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 3: hustling to make my dreams a reality. And if anyone

562
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 3: in my life was willing to help me have this

563
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 3: process become as I guess normal as possible would have

564
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: been the word I would have used back then. Like

565
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 3: I just thought, hey, maybe there's someone a cousin, a sister,

566
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 3: a mother, an aunt, like someone that has some genetic

567
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: component to me that if I could combine it with

568
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 3: my husband's sperm, that I would have children possibly that

569
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 3: were as close to me as anything. And on New

570
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 3: Year's in twenty sixteen, we got a phone call from

571
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: one of those women who had been like processing it

572
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,719
Speaker 3: and went to therapy about it, went to see a

573
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 3: doctor and was like, this is something that I would

574
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: like to give to you guys as a gift, and

575
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 3: my whole world stopped. It was just like, I can't

576
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 3: believe this is happening. I can't believe selfless people like

577
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 3: this exist. I can't believe that this could happen again.

578
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 3: It's still it could. You still got to like go

579
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: through the process and get the egg retrieval and get

580
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: the sperm retrieval and then go through the IVF process,

581
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 3: and lord knows how expensive that is. How are we

582
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: going to find two hundred and fifty Australian thousand Australian dollars?

583
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 3: How are we going to find that we don't have

584
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 3: that money laying around?

585
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: Wo?

586
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 3: Wo?

587
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? Can I talk a little bit about how? And

588
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 2: I'm going to use the word lucky, so please correct

589
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: me if that doesn't feel right. But your results were, like,

590
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: I've done one round of IVF and for future planning,

591
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: so I'm in career mode and I'm like, Okay, my boyfriend,

592
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: I like, let's let's get some my spambinos as what

593
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: we call them.

594
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: Yes, And I had this wild dream.

595
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 2: I was like, all right, We're going to get our

596
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,719
Speaker 2: iced embryos and I'm going to have so many amazing

597
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 2: leftover egos and I'm going to donate them all to

598
00:31:57,840 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: queer couples.

599
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: That was my big dream, beautiful.

600
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: But when there are so many things that happened, like

601
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: when the eggs got retrieved through that five day process

602
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 2: of egg to embryo, there is a huge amount of

603
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 2: drop off to get to that day five viable, happy,

604
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: ready for transfer pluses, a bunch of genetic testing and

605
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 2: whatnot that.

606
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: Goes on along the way.

607
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 2: And so what went from like the day of egg

608
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 2: retrieval of fourteen eggs quickly dwindled down to two really

609
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: healthy embryos, and I was like, hang on a minute,

610
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: like that wasn't my plan. And you know, you've You've

611
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 2: kissed fifteen grand goodbye straight away, just for choosing to

612
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 2: do that one single round. When I heard your results,

613
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my goodness, it was twenty four

614
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 2: eggs eleven embryos.

615
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: Is that right?

616
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think it was fourteen eggs twelve embryos, So

617
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 3: only that's.

618
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, wild, I like the.

619
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 3: Right word, like it definitely. They prepare you at every

620
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 3: part of this process for like they have to you

621
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: have to go to therapy, They make you go to

622
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 3: a psychologist just to go down this journey. Because the

623
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: reality is almost every person that I've ever known, every

624
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 3: close person in my life who's done this process. We

625
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 3: used to joke, and I mean this that these women,

626
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 3: we have beautiful lesbian couple in our life, used to

627
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: joke like, we're just gonna, what are you doing this weekend?

628
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 3: We're going to go drive a car off a cliff

629
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 3: because that's how much money it costs. Just another car,

630
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: just another car, because for so many people it really

631
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 3: it's zero, it's one. It's zero, it's one. And then

632
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 3: you have to do the implementation, and that's where a

633
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 3: lot of the problems occur. So then you're not able

634
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 3: to successfully latch that embryo to the uterine wall, and

635
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 3: then you've got to go all over again. And so yeah,

636
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 3: we felt incredibly blessed that every single part of the

637
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: process just happened to work the first time, very truly,

638
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 3: like we were obviously crossing our fingers and our toes

639
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: and hoping for that, but they tell you that it's

640
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: not likely, and yeah, I guess we just really looked out.

641
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: And it sounds like your surrogate was an absolute legend,

642
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,240
Speaker 2: like just a good human being. Have you stayed friends?

643
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so. My children referred to her as an aunt.

644
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: My son is in an interesting phase where he would

645
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 3: like to call her a stepmother, which we think is adorable,

646
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 3: and we're absolutely willing on this journey of life for

647
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 3: them to choose how they want to feel connected to her.

648
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 3: Sarah is her name, and she's very open about her

649
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 3: story being told in totality with her name and her

650
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 3: husband's name, Nate, and they deserve that recognition because it's

651
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 3: a really selfless act. A selfless act. Women die during

652
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 3: pregnancy on a regular basis, especially when multiples are involved.

653
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 3: And here's this woman who's raised her hand, not just

654
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 3: that she wants to be a surrogate, and not just

655
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 3: that she wants to be a surrogate to multiples, but

656
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 3: she specifically wants to work with a queer couple because

657
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: she wants to educate her children who live part of

658
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 3: America that's not very diverse about the realities of the world.

659
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 3: And that she raised her hand, and Nate raised his

660
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 3: hand and said, we want to be involved in these kids'

661
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 3: lives forever. So they flew to Australia. We've spent Christmases together,

662
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: you know, they've come and gone on holiday with my family,

663
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 3: like they really are these incredibly important foundational members of

664
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 3: our family. I have a lot of friends who are adopted.

665
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: I just happened to happen that way over my lifetime.

666
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 3: And one of the biggest issues that every adopted child

667
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: goes through is who where am I from? Who is

668
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 3: my family? And if they don't have that information, there's

669
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 3: a part of them that feels lost or lied to.

670
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: And so we were like, well, let's give them all

671
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 3: the details always, but let's also make sure that the

672
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 3: people if possible. Right, this isn't for everyone, but in

673
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 3: our case, it just happened to work out that these

674
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 3: people are close to them, and so when they have questions,

675
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 3: we can get on the phone and answer them with

676
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 3: the people involved. So there's never a sense that of

677
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: that they don't know where they come from. But more importantly,

678
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 3: they understand the village is dead, girl, it's gone. We

679
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 3: have stripped it away. We've said we're not going to

680
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 3: live together. In fact, we're going to live far away

681
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 3: from our families. We're going to travel, we're not going

682
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: to be close. Parents want to do by themselves, and

683
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 3: we're saying we have a village of people who wanted

684
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 3: to bring you into this world. So many people loved

685
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 3: you unconditionally. To make this possible, and these are your

686
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 3: family now, and I think that's really really important, but

687
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 3: also just like a beautiful gift that we can give

688
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 3: to our children, because there will come a time where

689
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,160
Speaker 3: they want even more answers, or maybe they want relationships

690
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 3: with women who aren't us and we, and we've chosen

691
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 3: early on to give them access so they can make

692
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 3: those choices themselves.

693
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: Ah, do you got me?

694
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 2: I say this thing to my boyfriend when I'm going

695
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: to cry getting it? She knows, and you were talking

696
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 2: that I was like, I'm getting it, she knows. I

697
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 2: have to ask you to the that had me in

698
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: fits of laughter in the book number one, What the

699
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 2: if is sweet potato with marshmallows?

700
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you're in America, so this can happen

701
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 3: for you. I mean, maybe you don't want it to.

702
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 2: Be it sounds full on, but I feel like i'd

703
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 2: probably fall in love with it.

704
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I actually don't like it that much.

705
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 3: But basically, in America we love to add sugar to

706
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 3: anything if we can. And it's so funny. As a child,

707
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,320
Speaker 3: I really thought the early settlers, like the Native Americans,

708
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 3: were helping put marshmallows onto sweet potatoes. Like I just

709
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 3: thought it was like a foundational dish that is like

710
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 3: came with America. But yeah, I think in the book

711
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 3: I was describing moving to Australia and being shell shocked

712
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,280
Speaker 3: by the food that served on Christmas or like holidays,

713
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: and just being like, where the real Christmas food? Where's

714
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 3: the real stuff? You know, sweet potatoes with marshmallows, because

715
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 3: that is an actual dish that we consume. Yeah, it's

716
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 3: just like it's basically mashed potatoes, sweet style, like smacked

717
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 3: into the bottom of a dish that goes into the oven,

718
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 3: and then they put marshmallows on and toast it like

719
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 3: a s'more, And so you're actually having like a burnt

720
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 3: marshmallowy almost like a sugary casing on top of the

721
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: sweet potato. It's basically delicious lollies.

722
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: It does sound absolutely. I'm a big fan of the

723
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,479
Speaker 2: pumpkin pie. That is my favorite American tree.

724
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 3: Gess.

725
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: My next question is I also, since spending time in America,

726
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 2: am obsessed with Halloween, me girl, which I.

727
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 1: Know is a big part of your world.

728
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: Can we talk about and I'm going to use what

729
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: iconic your iconic toilet Halloween costume?

730
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,879
Speaker 1: One year take away.

731
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 3: For me, it would be a privilege, like I can

732
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 3: write a whole book about this costume. Iconic feels right

733
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 3: to me. So Halloween is just a really big part

734
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 3: of American culture, but more importantly, holidays are a very

735
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 3: big part of my family. My mom and dad are

736
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 3: insanely crafty, and I don't mean crafty just in the

737
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 3: sense of they like coloring and painting. They build our homes,

738
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 3: they make our furniture, They you know, design our clothes.

739
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 3: They can sew, they can knit, they can you know,

740
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 3: my dad's toolshed rivals that of a professional who only

741
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 3: builds for a living. And so I grew up in

742
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 3: a world like our family motto is if you want something,

743
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 3: make it for yourself. That is the family motto, and

744
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 3: so anything in our life. If I had a fantasy

745
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 3: about a dinner, if I wanted to travel to another country,

746
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,240
Speaker 3: my mom would be like, we're going to the library,

747
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 3: We're getting the cookbooks, We're making the food. That is

748
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 3: who my parents are and that is who I am.

749
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 3: And so as a child, if I wanted something, my

750
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: parents weren't going to go to Walmart and get it.

751
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,720
Speaker 3: They were going to make it for us by hand.

752
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 3: And so one day I think I was seven or nine,

753
00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 3: I actually forget right now. But I came home and

754
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 3: my mom I was like, what do you want to

755
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 3: be for Halloween? And I set a toilet and they

756
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 3: were like, you want to be what? I was like,

757
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 3: I want to be a toilet seat, Like I want

758
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 3: to be the seat, and they just didn't skip a

759
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 3: beat there. They were just like, Okay, let's make it.

760
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: Let's do it. So they got cardboard boxes. My dad

761
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 3: went to the American version of Bunnings, which is called

762
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 3: Home Depot, bought a toilet seat, bought the toilet seat handle,

763
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: painted it, put it on, and then when you when

764
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 3: I would get the candy, I would lift up the

765
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 3: toilet seat and then in the bottom of the toilet

766
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 3: was like a like a pillowcase where you could throw

767
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 3: the candy inside of. And let me tell you, girl,

768
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 3: I won Halloween. Like my whole town knew about it.

769
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 3: They were like, who is this kid? This is amazing

770
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: And it really shaped my entire existence on earth. It

771
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 3: seems so silly that a toilet seat would be an

772
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 3: origin story for self expression, But as I was walking

773
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 3: the street and every single person adult child was. They

774
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: weren't laughing, they were like, okay, slay little boy in

775
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,880
Speaker 3: his toilet seat costume. And you know, my parents were proud,

776
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 3: And it was just a moment of realization that Halloween

777
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 3: is about play. That's what I say to Ozzie's who

778
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 3: don't get it. It's just about fun and self expression.

779
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 3: It's about going out one night and skipping about and

780
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: dressing up in a world that doesn't want us to

781
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 3: play past childhood where we really suppressed dressing up past

782
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 3: a certain age. Especially for young boys, Halloween is that

783
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 3: chance to just express yourself, and for queer people in particular,

784
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 3: it's a safe haven. It's a day where young non

785
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 3: binarian trans kids can finally wear heels and a boa

786
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 3: and express themselves out without fear of being you know,

787
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 3: beat up. And for young girls, it's also an opportunity

788
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 3: to explore sexuality right a constant stream of sexualization. You're

789
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,320
Speaker 3: dressing too sexual, you're dressing too sexual. Well, here's the

790
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 3: day once a year where you can have fun and

791
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 3: you can feel sexy and show a little bit of skin.

792
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 3: So it's a powerful day for self expression. But in

793
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 3: that moment, for me, not only can I express myself.

794
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 3: But my parents are going to support that that. They're

795
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 3: gonna never question me. They're gonna go, this is what

796
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 3: you want, let me help you bring it to life.

797
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 3: And so as a parent, now it's just an incredibly

798
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 3: important part of my journey is what do you want

799
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 3: to do for Halloween? And how can I make it possible?

800
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: Whatever the cost is, however much money it costs, I'm

801
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 3: going to make your dreams a reality for this one

802
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,760
Speaker 3: day a year, and hopefully that seeps into other parts

803
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 3: of your life.

804
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: I've got to say, Wizard of Oz, oh, my goodness,

805
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: did you or want to look any cut?

806
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: I want to look gang.

807
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 3: I was so excited to put that picture in the

808
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 3: book just so people could see, like how serious we

809
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:39,879
Speaker 3: take it. We go all out for sure.

810
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: Do you know?

811
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: As soon as I started reading the first paragraph of

812
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 2: that chapter, I was like, I've got to find the picture.

813
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: I've got to find the picture now.

814
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: I just skip like four pages to get to like

815
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 2: the picture and see it and then go back and

816
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:51,320
Speaker 2: read the chapter.

817
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: Amazing, I you it's I.

818
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 2: As an Aussie, Aussies don't always get the Halloween thing like,

819
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 2: and I love the way you've described as like, it's

820
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 2: like this freedom to play and it's the only thing

821
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 2: that I've learned like.

822
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: With acting training.

823
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 2: And I know because of your training you would totally

824
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: resonate with this, but like you get taught to play again,

825
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 2: and it's so interesting now hearing you say Leah, well

826
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 2: Halloween is that for adults, I'm like, shit, like I

827
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,640
Speaker 2: forget that because like I go to acting school and

828
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 2: I get to dance around and be a type of

829
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 2: bird for a day or whatever it is. You literally

830
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: like really enter this world where there are no rules.

831
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: And I just think I love I love what you've

832
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,439
Speaker 2: just said about Halloween because I love it so so much.

833
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 3: The other thing that I think is important for Ozzie

834
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: adults listening is that Halloween seeps into adulthood in America

835
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 3: and it doesn't here in Australia. Yes, the one thing

836
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 3: that I love about going to school in America, going

837
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 3: to university in America, or living in New York as

838
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 3: an adult is you get invited to a lot of

839
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: themed parties as an adult, like just random theme parties

840
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 3: on a Saturday or birthday parties that are themed. And

841
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 3: you know, in my college, every week there was a

842
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 3: theme party. One of the fraternities or sororities would throw

843
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: a nineteen twenties party, or you'd like an alphabet party

844
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 3: where you'd be assigned a letter and it'd be like,

845
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 3: you have to come as a bee costume. And I

846
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 3: think that Halloween seeps into adulthood because there's just a

847
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 3: lot of adults who never stop playing because of that

848
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 3: day once a year. And one of the things I

849
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 3: kind of miss about that here is there aren't a

850
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 3: lot of themed adult parties where adults just get to

851
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 3: dress up and be silly. And when I talk about it,

852
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 3: people are like, that's so American, and I'm like, yeah,

853
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 3: and it could be Australian because I actually think of

854
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 3: Ozzie's as much more playful and fun. I think the

855
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,439
Speaker 3: sense of humor, you guys are really willing to take

856
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 3: the piss out of yourself and make jokes about yourself.

857
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 3: I think some of the comedy is pretty like progressive

858
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 3: and a world that's really trying to like restrain us

859
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 3: with cancel culture and what we say. But America does

860
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 3: a really good job of just allowing adults to play

861
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 3: without judgment. So if you see someone walking down the

862
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 3: street in a costume. People are like, what's that adult doing?

863
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: What a weirdo?

864
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 3: It's like now they're probably going to a theme party

865
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 3: and that, and I'm jealous. I'd love for us to

866
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 3: just grab a hold of that.

867
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 2: I also feel in America you can, like there are

868
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 2: great ninety nine cents stores here. The targets are awesome,

869
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: very different to Australian targets.

870
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: Yes, you cant Walmart.

871
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: You can get to all these places where you if

872
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,360
Speaker 2: you have a nineteen twenties theme party on the weekend,

873
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:26,720
Speaker 2: you can probably.

874
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: Find that stuff for pretty easy.

875
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 2: And like, yes, it's so so addictive too.

876
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, I could talk to you all day long.

877
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 2: I do want to touch on a topic that you

878
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 2: write and speak so beautifully about, and it's obviously a

879
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 2: huge umbrella, but mental health. You share so much of

880
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 2: yourself in this book and stuff that I imagine writing

881
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 2: about would have taken a lot of courage, cutting, anxiety attack,

882
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: panic attack, depression, post part I never says word right

883
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: postpartum depression, is that right?

884
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: Yeah?

885
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 2: Yes, And you share the you know, the big Mexican

886
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: like where you wanted to escape to Mexico, got yourself

887
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: to the airport and you share it, not even so vulnerable,

888
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,879
Speaker 2: you share it courageously Like I was in the shit,

889
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,359
Speaker 2: I was like fuck this, I'm out like it. And

890
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: I just in the way that you discuss mental health

891
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: and how it has I feel like your relationship with

892
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 2: has probably changed over the years, and I think for

893
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,800
Speaker 2: all of us, like we sometimes it can be anxiety,

894
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,320
Speaker 2: Sometimes it can be more panics. Sometimes it can be exhaustion,

895
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: like there's a lot of yours that was triggered by

896
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: extreme exhaustion. Whatever you're comfortable sharing right now, can you

897
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 2: share a little bit about a little bit of some

898
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 2: of the your mental health journey, but the stuff that

899
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 2: kind of helped you through it. Because I know you're

900
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 2: pro therapy sometimes being medicated, you know, go for it.

901
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 3: I was totally an open book about this when I

902
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 3: got this book deal. When I was approached to write

903
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 3: this book, I sat down with my family and my

904
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 3: husband and the book editor, and I said, if I'm

905
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 3: going to do this, I'm going to need to be

906
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 3: honest about things that I haven't spoken publicly about before.

907
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 3: I made a decision really early on in my social

908
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 3: media career, my media career, that I was going to

909
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 3: carve out a space for positivity. At the time when

910
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 3: I got started in social there was just so much

911
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 3: negativity online. It had almost become everyone was trying to

912
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 3: be so beautifully open about their truth that it almost

913
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 3: became all of social media for a year where it's

914
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 3: like every time you logged in, every parent creator was

915
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 3: like parenting sucks and parenting's hard and parenting is terrible.

916
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 3: And so I decided, that's great, that needs to happen.

917
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 3: This will help make the world a better place. I'm

918
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 3: just not going to do that. I am going to

919
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 3: have a page of positivity. I'm going to be a comedian.

920
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 3: I'd call myself an Internet like I'm going to make

921
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 3: a lot of jokes about parenthood and that will be

922
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 3: my thing. And so choosing to write a book when

923
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 3: your identity is that of a funny dad and choosing

924
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 3: to be brutally honest about when it wasn't very funny

925
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 3: was nerve wracking to me, mainly because it's my whole

926
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 3: brand identity. It's why brands work with me, it's how

927
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 3: people know me. And so if they get a book,

928
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 3: are they thinking it's going to be funny the whole time?

929
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 3: And then they're going to see the dirty reality. So

930
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 3: that was really hard for me, and I decided with

931
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 3: my editor, like, just tell everything and will decide what

932
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:38,280
Speaker 3: to take out once it's written. My mental health journey

933
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 3: started when I was quite young. My parents put me

934
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 3: in therapy when I was eleven because I was having

935
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 3: a lot of panic attacks. I was struggling sleeping. I

936
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 3: would sleep like three two to three hours a night

937
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,320
Speaker 3: and then I would just spiral. I get sick a lot.

938
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 3: But I was really struggling with being gay. I was

939
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 3: really struggling through the lens of religion what that would

940
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 3: mean for my future. And around that time, I decided, well,

941
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 3: if I'm definitely gay and that means I'm going to Hell,

942
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 3: and Hell is real and it is the worst place

943
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 3: and it is forever, maybe I should beat it to

944
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 3: the punch and end my life before I act on it,

945
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 3: because I think I will, and then I won't go

946
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 3: to hell, and then I'll go to heaven. And if

947
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 3: I can go to heaven, I always get really emotional

948
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 3: talking about this.

949
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry place, and I say, sorry, you don't need to

950
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 1: be doing so well.

951
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just thought, you know, when you're a young

952
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 3: kid and you are indoctrinated into this world, and you

953
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 3: believe every inch of it, just every single inch of it.

954
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 3: The rude reality of what could happen if you make

955
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 3: the wrong step. It becomes a fear that lives through

956
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 3: your entire body on a daily basis. And it was

957
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 3: really hard to be young kid in that church environment

958
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 3: and not feel like I had anyone I could talk

959
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 3: to about it. And I just thought it'd be so

960
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 3: much better if I just left before I'd ended up

961
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 3: in Hell, and then at least I'll be able to

962
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 3: be with my family forever, and I won't be a sinner,

963
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 3: and I won't ruin my family's name. I didn't understand

964
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 3: it back then, but I thought maybe if I went

965
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,280
Speaker 3: to Hell, then everyone else would too, and my family,

966
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,919
Speaker 3: and so the fear and the stress of ruining their

967
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 3: eternal existence just it became too overwhelming. And my parents

968
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 3: didn't know all of this, but they could tell that

969
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 3: something was very, very wrong. I started cutting really young.

970
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 3: I didn't eat anything. I became very restrictive about what

971
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 3: I ate, and I just was consumed with the lack

972
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 3: of sleep, and so I started my journey. Then that

973
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 3: was my first real bout with anxiety, social anxiety, depression,

974
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,720
Speaker 3: physical harm at a really young age. But my parents

975
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,920
Speaker 3: decided and it was a beautiful gift that they gave me.

976
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 3: But my mom said, I don't have the answers for

977
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 3: this young boy. I don't know what it's like to

978
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 3: be him. Was very sure I was gay. I just

979
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 3: don't need to pretend with him, and so why don't

980
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 3: we send him to therapy? And at the time, I

981
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 3: mean think back to like what I don't know what

982
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 3: year that would have been, but like the late nineties,

983
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 3: early two thousands, yeah, I would have been two thousand.

984
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 3: The conversation around therapy was different. It definitely wasn't as popular.

985
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,240
Speaker 3: I didn't know anyone who went unless their parents got divorced.

986
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 3: I had never really heard about a kid going, and

987
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 3: she was like, let's just start, and I never stopped.

988
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 3: I started when I was eleven, and I'm still in therapy.

989
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 3: I've never I've gone, you know, a couple months here

990
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 3: and there of little breaks, but it's just been a

991
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,360
Speaker 3: foundational part of my journey. I live on a daily

992
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 3: basis with anxiety. It is a huge part of who

993
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 3: I am, and I've learned to use it as a superpower.

994
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 3: But over the course from my age eleven all the

995
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 3: way up to having kids, I would go through periods

996
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 3: of needing to be hospitalized, needing treatment for harm, needing

997
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 3: guidance and medical support with my medication in high school

998
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 3: and college, and again when I lived in New York.

999
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 3: So before having children, I knew that therapy was okay,

1000
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 3: that needing to be medicated was okay, that there was

1001
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 3: nothing to be ashamed about. Of course it came with shame,

1002
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 3: but I had gotten to a place where I had

1003
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 3: experience with it, and so when I had kids, I

1004
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 3: kind of expected it would be hard, but I guess

1005
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 3: I just thought, well, if it gets hard, I know

1006
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 3: what to do. But what I didn't know was that

1007
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 3: the intensity of feeling like you had failed as a

1008
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:50,640
Speaker 3: parent and that you were failing these young children like

1009
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 3: the negative toll that was going to take. So when

1010
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 3: I started to experience really similar symptoms post becoming a dad,

1011
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 3: of not leaving the house, not eating, not talking to anyone,

1012
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 3: crying all day every day, getting really angry, like really

1013
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 3: angry at these little babies and at my husband, and

1014
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 3: starting to plan exit strategies as if I was eleven again,

1015
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 3: my family would be better off without me if I

1016
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 3: could just run away. Where would I run away? How

1017
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:22,439
Speaker 3: would I get there? How much did the tickets cost?

1018
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 3: Where would I live? What job would I take? How

1019
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 3: much money to sex workers get? Like really going deep

1020
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,880
Speaker 3: into figuring out the entire plan, when of the flights.

1021
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 3: But I just kept thinking like, just suppress, suppress, suppress.

1022
00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 3: Maybe it will go away, Maybe things will get better.

1023
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 3: Tomorrow's the better day. And yeah, one day I just

1024
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,280
Speaker 3: had was at my breaking point. I dropped my daughter

1025
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 3: into her crib, even though she had shit streaming down

1026
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 3: our legs, and I was like, this is no longer

1027
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 3: my problem because I'm not going to be their dad anymore.

1028
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 3: And so I just dropped them in their cribs. I

1029
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 3: ran into Josh's bedroom, our bedroom, and I said, you

1030
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 3: know they're your responsibility now, goodbye, And I slammed the

1031
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,680
Speaker 3: door and I took the car keys and I drove

1032
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 3: to the airport and stepped out of Sydney International Airport

1033
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 3: and was like this is it, Like just go you

1034
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 3: could have freedom. And I think that was the moment

1035
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 3: I thought, Okay, this is a really big problem. Your

1036
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 3: brain is broken again and you need some actual help.

1037
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 3: You can't just continue to try to do this on

1038
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 3: your own. You can't continue to pretend that you're okay.

1039
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 3: These children deserve better. Was I think a really big

1040
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 3: feeling for me, the moment of realizing that maybe I

1041
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 3: shouldn't be their father Without support like that, I can't continue.

1042
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,240
Speaker 3: It's just not safe for them or for my husband

1043
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 3: to be around me. And so I went home and

1044
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: I told Josh that I needed to go to a

1045
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 3: mental institution and be checked in, see doctors and do

1046
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,840
Speaker 3: whatever it needed to take. And that kick started a

1047
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 3: really similar journey to the story I told when I

1048
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 3: was eleven, of going into therapy, getting a GP, getting

1049
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 3: on medication, getting onto zoloft so that I could seek

1050
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 3: a clearer mind. Yeah, there was a lot of embarrassment

1051
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 3: because at that same time I started to become a

1052
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 3: popular dad online and in the Australian media landscape, and

1053
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:30,279
Speaker 3: oftentimes you'd read articles literally like on Mama Mia, like

1054
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 3: ten famous dads who are so fun to follow online

1055
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 3: and Sean's always there in the little list, number six

1056
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 3: or seven with a big smile on his face and

1057
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 3: what a great dad and so fun and playful. And

1058
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 3: here I am like the exact opposite of that online identity,

1059
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,280
Speaker 3: and so there was a lot of shame and embarrassment,

1060
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 3: and so I just thought, I'll just never tell anyone

1061
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 3: about this because it would be so damaging to my career.

1062
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 3: Why would someone want to follow this fun dad who's

1063
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 3: a liar, who's not actually as fun as he puts

1064
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 3: out into the world. But through this writing process, writing

1065
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 3: this book, I've come to terms with the fact that

1066
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:10,920
Speaker 3: this is not really a story that we hear a

1067
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 3: lot about. We hear a lot about mothers struggling in

1068
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 3: silence and how terrible it is and a lack of

1069
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:19,439
Speaker 3: support from society or from their partners, but we don't

1070
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 3: always get to hear the flip side is what happens

1071
00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 3: to a man after the birth of their children. And

1072
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 3: through that writing and through the storytelling, and now that

1073
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 3: we're talking about it, I'm realizing this is just like

1074
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 3: the next state step of my journey to kind of

1075
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 3: understanding that it was okay, that this is okay, that

1076
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,680
Speaker 3: I wasn't that I didn't fail. Then this is just

1077
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 3: the way that my brain works. I've always been like

1078
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 3: this and I just need support and it doesn't make

1079
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 3: me a terrible father at all. Getting the help is

1080
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 3: what makes me a great dad. Like raising my hand

1081
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 3: and getting the help and putting the two steps forward

1082
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 3: every single day and keeping on top of it. That's

1083
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 3: why I'm always in therapy, why I'm always meeting with

1084
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 3: my GP. I talk about my mental health plan so

1085
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 3: that I can continue to remain a wonderful father and

1086
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 3: so that they understand that mental health is something that

1087
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 3: people struggle with and doesn't make them bad, and there's

1088
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 3: nothing to be ashamed about it. Song as you get

1089
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:13,800
Speaker 3: the help, that's what matters.

1090
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 2: First of all, thank you so much for sharing that,

1091
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 2: so honestly, I really really appreciate that, and I want

1092
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 2: you to know that you sharing this in the book

1093
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 2: when you do interviews, I know you're about to start

1094
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 2: your tour with it, I imagine, And this is just

1095
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 2: me coming at it from what I believe. I believe

1096
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: people will hear this, read this, see this, and go, oh.

1097
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: My god, I'm not the only one. I'm not alone.

1098
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 2: And I really believe that this book will speak to

1099
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 2: people because you do shine a beautiful light out into

1100
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 2: the world. You are a joy to follow on Instagram.

1101
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: But something like this, this is the stuff that changes

1102
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 2: people's lives and lets people know that you can still

1103
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 2: be funny and brilliant and an awesome father, but you

1104
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: can also have really fucking shitty days and feel like

1105
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 2: you're a failure. And I think, and you might have

1106
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 2: noticed this between America and Australia, like the mental health

1107
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 2: picture is being spoken about a little bit more now,

1108
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 2: but it's still like in a Maria, I'm in LA

1109
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 2: and if you go I've got a therapist, they're like

1110
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 2: how many? Like everyone's got a few for different things

1111
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 2: or a life coach for this. In Australia like sometimes

1112
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,439
Speaker 2: to be like, oh well, so what for, Like what's wrong?

1113
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,320
Speaker 2: What's going on for you? And I'm a huge huge

1114
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 2: mental health and the especially talk therapy. I love, I

1115
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,720
Speaker 2: love it just really works for me. And I just

1116
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 2: love that you are helping to normalize that, just so

1117
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 2: that people like you know what, you can be a

1118
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 2: really funny human being and a really great dad and

1119
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:04,240
Speaker 2: need a bit of support for your mental health. And

1120
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:06,280
Speaker 2: I actually think all humans would do great with a

1121
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 2: bit of therapy, if I'm being really honest with.

1122
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: You, just for processing total.

1123
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 2: But I think it's very courageous of you to share, yes,

1124
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 2: what you just share with me, but also what you

1125
00:59:16,440 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 2: share in the book. And I think that you know

1126
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 2: this is the beginning of this book's life, but I

1127
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,840
Speaker 2: think this is going to be one of your huge superpowers,

1128
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 2: and it will be to share this story and let

1129
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 2: people know that it's not a failure to need help

1130
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 2: with mental health. In fact, if anything, like, what a

1131
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 2: gift to give your kids for them to know that

1132
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 2: it's healthy and okay to get support and help with

1133
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 2: your mental health. I think it's a beautiful thing. And

1134
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:46,760
Speaker 2: it sounds really backhanded, but I really do.

1135
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 3: I love it.

1136
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: I really do.

1137
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 3: I appreciate you.

1138
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: Are so welcome.

1139
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: I could talk to you all day long. You are wonderful.

1140
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:54,600
Speaker 2: The day I met you, I was like, oh, I

1141
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 2: think I want to be friends with things. So I

1142
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 2: really really appreciate you saying yes. And I to jumping

1143
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 2: on this pod and I cannot wait for people to

1144
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,919
Speaker 2: read your book. All the details for it are going,

1145
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 2: all the buying links, the book topia links, all the

1146
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 2: links I'm going to get off you so that we

1147
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 2: can have them in the show notes so people can

1148
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 2: just click and buy straight away.

1149
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: I wish you all the luck.

1150
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 2: In the world for this book tour, I know it's

1151
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 2: going to do so friggin' well, and I just feel

1152
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: honored that I've been lucky enough to read it and

1153
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: to chat to you about this beautiful book. My last

1154
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 2: question is what is your hope that people get.

1155
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: From reading this? Like, what is the dream?

1156
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 2: I read in the epilogue that you were, like you

1157
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 2: went to a bookstore and saw that there was really

1158
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 2: nothing you know, out there?

1159
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: Like this? Is it so that people feel less alone?

1160
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 3: You know?

1161
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: Like, what's the hope of this book?

1162
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 3: My dream is actually that street women pick up the

1163
01:00:55,160 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 3: book and get access to a world that they might

1164
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 3: not have access to on a daily basis. My career

1165
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 3: has been defined by speaking to and with women. That's

1166
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 3: my thing, and I can hopefully bridge a very tiny

1167
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 3: gap between their passion and desire to be allies to

1168
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,440
Speaker 3: the queer community and also understanding what happens behind closed

1169
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,960
Speaker 3: doors with queer people as they're growing up, coming into

1170
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,439
Speaker 3: the parenting journey, and then trying desperately to fit in

1171
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 3: a world that doesn't really have a ton of space

1172
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 3: for them. The book is not necessarily just about what

1173
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 3: happens when you're queer and do you try to parent.

1174
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 3: It's about what happens when the parenting script doesn't work

1175
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,840
Speaker 3: for you. And for so many women who are listening

1176
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 3: and might read, who have to go through IVF, who

1177
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,360
Speaker 3: are single, who get divorced, who have a child with

1178
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 3: a disability, or a child that is queer, or all

1179
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:58,439
Speaker 3: of the numerous ways in which parents can come into

1180
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:01,760
Speaker 3: the parenting journey script. And it's ten thousand years in

1181
01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 3: the making, and it just is very black and white.

1182
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 3: And by black and white, I mean man and woman, straight,

1183
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 3: usually white white. And so what happens when that doesn't

1184
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 3: work for you? That's what this book is about. It's

1185
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 3: about rewriting the script so it works for you, so

1186
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 3: you can be a better parent to your children. And

1187
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 3: I think even though there's a rainbow on the cover,

1188
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 3: everyone would benefit from picking that up and realizing they

1189
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,480
Speaker 3: can rewrite the script too. They can sit with their partner,

1190
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 3: or if they're by themselves as a parent, sit down

1191
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,479
Speaker 3: with their friends or even their children and say what's working,

1192
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:37,480
Speaker 3: what's not working, what are my strengths, what are my weaknesses?

1193
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 3: Where can I dive in and get support. That's what

1194
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 3: this book is about, is me and my husband working

1195
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 3: together to make sure that we can be the best

1196
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 3: parents possible against a script that says there's a one

1197
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 3: way to do it. And so my hope is a

1198
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 3: lot of people around Australia pick the book up and

1199
01:02:54,120 --> 01:02:56,439
Speaker 3: they read it, and then that gift is given to them,

1200
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,240
Speaker 3: that they sit down with their partners or by themselves

1201
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 3: and they re valuate if parenting is working for them,

1202
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 3: Because if you are in a great mental health space,

1203
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 3: if you are doing what you love, if you are

1204
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 3: even going against the script of the Green to create

1205
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 3: a system that works for parenting, your children will benefit greatly.

1206
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:19,560
Speaker 3: They will prosper, they will shine. You don't have to

1207
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 3: just do things because that's how your parents did it,

1208
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 3: and that's what the book is for. And I hope

1209
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 3: that that gift can be given to people.

1210
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 2: Well, so many people have written to me already about it,

1211
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 2: and I can guarantee you, like I'm there is so

1212
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 2: much buzz about it, so I know that it's gonna

1213
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 2: it's going to help so many human beings and just inspire,

1214
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:45,520
Speaker 2: but in a really ah like just a really honest way,

1215
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:48,439
Speaker 2: like there is no fluff with you, which I love.

1216
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:54,240
Speaker 2: And there's still lots of funny. It feels like, well,

1217
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 2: it feels like you're having a just a chat, like

1218
01:03:56,040 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 2: I'm reading this and having a combo with you. And

1219
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,040
Speaker 2: that's my favorite style. That real personable, it's my favorite style.

1220
01:04:02,080 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 2: It's my favorite style to read and write. And I

1221
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 2: just think you've absolutely narrowed at my friend, and I'm

1222
01:04:08,320 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 2: really proud of you and I am really honored to

1223
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:12,439
Speaker 2: have you on this pod.

1224
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: So thank you so much, thanks for having me.

1225
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: That's a wrap on another episode of Fearlessly Failing.

1226
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: As always, thank you to our.

1227
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 2: Guests, and let's continue the conversation on Instagram.

1228
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 1: I'm at Yamo Lollaberry.

1229
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 2: This potty my word for podcast is available on all

1230
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 2: streaming platforms. I'd love it if you could subscribe, rape

1231
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,040
Speaker 2: and comment, and of course spread the love.