1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: Are you actually solving your procrastination problem or are you 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: just putting duct tape over it and hoping you'll stay afloat. 3 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Tim Urban, the writer behind the hugely popular blog Wait 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: But Why, is a self described master procrastinator. He even 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: delivered a very popular TED talk on the topic in 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: which most of the speech was about how long he 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: procrastinated on writing the speech. But as a master procrastinator, 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: Tim has a lot of experience beating procrastination, and now 9 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: his focus is on beating his bad habits for good, 10 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: not just for now. So what are the procrastination beating 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: strategies that have helped Tim the most. My name is 12 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: of Behavioral Science consultancy Invents. And this is how I work, 14 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: a show about how to help you do your best work. 15 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: On today's My Favorite Tip episode, we go back to 16 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: an interview from the past and I pick out my 17 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: favorite tip from the interview. In today's show, I speak 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: with Tim Urban about solutions for procrastination. 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 2: I think there's two categories of solution here. One is 20 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: a picture that your habits are kind of a boat 21 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 2: that you're in, and if you're a procrastinator, it means 22 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: something about the boat's not working well, like there's a 23 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 2: leak or there's something broken. And so the two categories 24 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: of solution for something like this are you repair the 25 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 2: boat in a permanent way, like you actually fix the 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: the hang and it's fixed, or you put temporary duct 27 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: tape or something over the pole and it's not permanent. 28 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: It's not actually fixing. The boat's still broken, but it's 29 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: the leak isn't happening right now because you've taped it 30 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,919 Speaker 2: up for a one. And so when I've been trying 31 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: for the obviously ideally you're the first category where you're 32 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: actually changing your habits and you're growing as a human 33 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: and you're you're not the way you used to be anymore. 34 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: And so for that category, the it's I've been trying 35 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 2: to a couple of things. I've been trying to remind 36 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: myself that even a big you know, we have this 37 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: idea in the US at least, that forty hours is 38 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: a good work week. You know, eight hour day is 39 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: a good work day. It's like half the half the day. 40 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 2: You know, you have sixteen awaking hours put in eight 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 2: good hours of working then a full day. If you 42 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 2: actually go into most people's offices or most people's workplaces 43 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: who say they were forty hours a week, and you 44 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: look at what they're actually doing and how much of 45 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 2: that is really on focusing, deep focus, on real work, 46 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: the number is usually a lot less than forty. And 47 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: I would say I've found that I think as a writer, 48 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: at least if I put in three deep focused hours, 49 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 2: that's a huge that's a great day, like I if 50 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 2: I but but but it's the psychology is weird where 51 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 2: in my head it's like if I wake up at 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: you know, eight thirty, and I think, if I just 53 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: pull my lap up onto the bed and work till 54 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: eleven thirty, I'm done. Something about that doesn't It's like 55 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: the perfectionist to me is like, well, no, I have 56 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: to work all day. And what I find is that 57 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 2: I'll spend the whole day sitting around working, except I'm 58 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,399 Speaker 2: like in this kind of gray area zone where I'm 59 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 2: supposed to be working but I'm not, or that I 60 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: am a little and then I stop and there's a 61 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 2: lot of breaks, and so it's this kind of gray area, 62 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 2: not really playing, not really working zone that I spend 63 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: a ton of time, and I call it the dark 64 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: playground where you're you're kind of in leisure time. 65 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 3: You're not supposed to be in the leasure time. 66 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: I will I will put in a huge amounts of 67 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 2: hours each week, and then I'll find that in the end, 68 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 2: if I really were honest about how many of those 69 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 2: are real hours, it adds up to about three hours 70 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 2: a day at a really good week. So the point 71 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: is what I'm trying to get better at is less 72 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 2: of this permanent gray area between work and play and 73 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: more like, I am going to get my three hours done, 74 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 2: and the psychology of that to be like instead of 75 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: you know, thinking I have this whole work day ahead. No, no, no, 76 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: If I just wait three hours, I'm free for the 77 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: whole day, but really doing it doing those three hours, 78 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 2: because it compiles, that's fifteen hours a week, that's sixty 79 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 2: real hours a month. 80 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 3: You can fly through projects. 81 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: And then genuinely on the other side of it having playtime. 82 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 2: So it's turning grades to black and white where you're 83 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 2: not just doing one side of the yin yang, but 84 00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 2: you're actually doing the other two. You're genuinely playing when 85 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: you're not giving yourself guilt free off time where you're 86 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: doing high quality stuff and you're having fun in guilt 87 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 2: free fun that it recharges your battery for the hardcore 88 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 2: work zone the next day. So it's either going to 89 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: be a hardcore work zone or nothing at all. That's 90 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: where I'm trying to get That is much more effective 91 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: than kind of sitting here. 92 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 3: All day not kind of working. 93 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 2: So there's a bunch of things. 94 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 3: I have a bunch of. 95 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: Strategies like that. Now the second pile of strategies is 96 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: the duct tape, right, And so what I'm trying to 97 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 2: do is while I build that habit, for example, is 98 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 2: I'm trying to duct tape the boat into that habit. 99 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: I have a colleague, Alisha, and she is the wave 100 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 2: wise manager of lots of things the one week but 101 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: why employee, and she does like a million things. 102 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 3: And one of the things. 103 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: That her job entails is dealing with my flaws and 104 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 2: like procrastination. That's why my procrastination has very much become 105 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: her problem. And so one of the things one of 106 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: the things that we've been doing, which has been great, 107 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 2: and again it's treating myself like a baby. 108 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 3: But sometimes that's what we need to do is. 109 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 2: We have as either in person or on slack video 110 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 2: nine thirty to twelve thirty. You know, these three hours 111 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: in the morning, the three hours I want to be 112 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: deep focusing at minimum. We have her either sitting next 113 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 2: to me or she can see my screen, or I 114 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 2: share my screen with her on zoo and she's working 115 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: on her own stuff. 116 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 3: She's not just staring at my screen. 117 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 2: But I me knowing that she might be looking at 118 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 2: my screen, it's enough external pressure to be like, well, 119 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 2: I'm not going to go dick around right now like 120 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 2: someone's watching me, and then I find get my work done. 121 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 2: I mean, she knows exactly what's supposed to be in 122 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: my screen and what's not. I'm not going to go 123 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: start texting when she's looking at my screen. 124 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: So I'm just work. 125 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: And it's not like recrest centers. Often you don't have 126 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: to drag them, you know, clawing and fighting to work. 127 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 3: You just have to give them like a little. 128 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: Push when they're like I don't want to It's like okay, fine, right, 129 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 2: So that to me is enough of a push to 130 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: get me to do those three hours. So again that's 131 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: duct taping the boat because I still if Atlice is 132 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: not there, then I won't do it. Probably fixing the 133 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,359 Speaker 2: boat means I don't need her anymore. I'm just going 134 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 2: to do this because that's what I do, right, So 135 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: that's what I'm aiming for. But in the meantime, I'm 136 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 2: having someone who is going to make me feel ashamed 137 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: to not be working when it's supposed to be working. 138 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 3: And people do other kinds of duct tape. 139 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 2: They'll have a friend they owe a friend, will they'll 140 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 2: pay a friend some money, and that money that that 141 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: friend's going to donate that money to a cause. 142 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 3: They hate if they don't get their stuff done right. 143 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: So there's a lot of ways you can kind of, 144 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 2: you know, duck take the boat in the meantime, And 145 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 2: that's that's mostly what I'm doing now. But I'm my 146 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 2: goal in life is to not need the duct tape 147 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 2: anymore working on it. 148 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: If you enjoy that the exit from my chat with Tim, 149 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: you might want to go back and listen to the 150 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: whole interview, which you can find a link for in 151 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to 152 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: improve the way that you work. I write a short 153 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered 154 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets 155 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: that I'm loving three to interesting research findings. You can 156 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot co. That's how 157 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: I Work dot Co. Thank you for sharing part of 158 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: your day with me by listening to How I Work. 159 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: If you're keen for more tips on how to work better, 160 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy 161 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work 162 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 1: was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, 163 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: part of the cool And Nation. I am so grateful 164 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: for being able to work and live on this beautiful 165 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: land and I want to pay my respects to elders, past, 166 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium 167 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios. And thank you 168 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: to Martin Nimba who did the audio mix. Makes everything 169 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: sound better than it would have otherwise.