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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: once answers. Now.

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Speaker 1: So I've just finished reading book, Kylie. It's called Get Married.

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Speaker 1: Get Married is the like just picking it up and

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Speaker 1: looking at it. Get Married. It's a provocative title for

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Speaker 1: a book. Get Married by a University of Virginia sociologist.

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Speaker 1: He's also the lead researcher on a project in the

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Speaker 1: United States called the National Marriage Project. His name is

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Speaker 1: Professor Brad Wilcox.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting that that's the title of his book when

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Speaker 2: my understanding is that marriage numbers are declining.

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Speaker 1: They actually are across the Western world. Fewer people are

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Speaker 1: getting married. Partnering is as popular as ever. But making

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Speaker 1: the commitment to sign up for a lifetime of monogamy,

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Speaker 1: I thought.

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Speaker 2: You want to say misery, no, no, no monogamy.

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Speaker 1: In fact, well, here's the interesting thing about the book.

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Speaker 1: The research that if you can have a happy, safe,

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Speaker 1: supportive marriage, it's the golden ticket to happiness. It's one

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Speaker 1: of the best predictors. In fact, it is the best

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Speaker 1: predictor of happiness in our lives. Check this out. I

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Speaker 1: found something just finding the stat here. The odds of

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Speaker 1: being very happy increased by sixty four percent if you

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Speaker 1: have a college degree of those who don't. In other words,

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Speaker 1: people who have a university degree a sixty four percent

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Speaker 1: more likely to be very happy than those without the degree. Oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I should just highlight I'm about to

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Speaker 1: say a whole lot of provocative stuff. I'm not in

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Speaker 1: a soap box here, I'm just looking at pure stats. Okay.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that if you don't have a university

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Speaker 1: degree you can't be happy. It just means that the

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Speaker 1: odds are being very happy go up by sixty four

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Speaker 1: percent if you've got that degree. Plenty of people with

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Speaker 1: degrees are miserable, and plenty of people without degrees are

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Speaker 1: wonderfully happy. This is just on average, statistically, that's how

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Speaker 1: it goes. Odds of being very happy with higher income

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Speaker 1: increased by eighty eight percent. If you're very satisfied with

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Speaker 1: your work, the odds of being very happy increased by

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Speaker 1: one hundred and forty five percent. Of those who are

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Speaker 1: not happy with their work, the odds are being very

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Speaker 1: happy increase by one hundred and fifty one percent if

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Speaker 1: you're married over those who are not married. But get this,

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Speaker 1: if you are in a very happy marriage compared to

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Speaker 1: those who are not married. To those who are not

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Speaker 1: in a happy marriage, the odds are being very happy

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Speaker 1: increased by five hundred and forty five percent. Marriage predicts

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Speaker 1: happiness better than education, better than work, better than money.

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Speaker 1: It's an astounding stat.

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Speaker 2: So how do you do the mass on something like that.

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Speaker 1: I like, it's a big number.

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Speaker 2: I'm struggling with my words because I'm actually looking at

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Speaker 2: the graph, and when you look at it pictorially, you've

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Speaker 2: got a teeny tiny little blue line down here for

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Speaker 2: sixty four percent, and then it's like having a I

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Speaker 2: don't know, two hundred story building right next to it.

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Speaker 2: This five hundred and fifty five percent, five hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty five sorry, h five hundred and forty five percent

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Speaker 2: better chance of being very happy.

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Speaker 1: So simple way of looking at this is they simply

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Speaker 1: ask people whether well being is up to and then

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Speaker 1: they look at their various sociodemographic statistics. So, are you married,

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Speaker 1: you're not married, what sort of education level do you have?

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Speaker 1: All those kinds of things, and they literally just look

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Speaker 1: at the odds of scoring in the very high range

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Speaker 1: based on what those boxes are that you ticked and

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Speaker 1: so if you've ticked that box and said I'm in

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Speaker 1: a very happy marriage, the odds of you being very

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Speaker 1: happy are five and a half times greater than the

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Speaker 1: likelihood of you being happy if you're not in a

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Speaker 1: very happy marriage.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: It's it's actually pretty basic stats. But the truth of

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Speaker 1: it is that we don't do maths very well and

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Speaker 1: we're really bad with probabilities, and as a result, when

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Speaker 1: we look at these numbers, they can often not make

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Speaker 1: much sense. The other thing is it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: provocative and confronting thing to hear. Now again, I want

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Speaker 1: to emphasize there are people who are not in happy

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Speaker 1: marriages that can be happy. There are people who are

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Speaker 1: not married that are wonderfully happy. I know plenty of

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Speaker 1: married people who are kind of miserable.

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Speaker 2: As well, people who've got lots of money.

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Speaker 1: Right, Okay, So this is not just about the one

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Speaker 1: fact that what it's looking at, quite simply, very simply

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Speaker 1: is if you're in a good marriage, if you're in

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Speaker 1: a very happy marriage, you're much more likely to be

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Speaker 1: a happy person. So it's not about shaming anyone. It's

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Speaker 1: not about judging anyone. It's not about pointing fingers and

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Speaker 1: that sort of thing. These stats just point in that direction.

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Speaker 1: Here's another stat for you while we're on it. Children

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Speaker 1: who are raised in homes where parents are married are

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Speaker 1: much more likely to go to university. They're much more

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Speaker 1: likely to stay off drugs, They're much more likely to

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Speaker 1: be financially stable, they're more likely to generally stay out

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Speaker 1: of trouble. Intact families just an enormous increase in the

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Speaker 1: positive outcomes versus other families. Now, of course, there are

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Speaker 1: plenty of kids that come from alternative and diverse families

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Speaker 1: that have wonderful outcomes. It's just that you get more

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Speaker 1: positive outcomes with intact families where a couple are happily married.

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Speaker 1: One more stat. This is a really interesting one. People

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Speaker 1: who are married tend to enjoy much greater financial benefits

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Speaker 1: than those who are not, even if you're living in

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Speaker 1: a live in de facto relationship.

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Speaker 2: So I find this interesting because as parents with dependent children,

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Speaker 2: it feels like the financial strain is intense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So a two thousand and seven survey

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Speaker 1: of consumer finance looked at the median net worth of

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Speaker 1: households with children by family structure and what they found

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Speaker 1: was that the people who were doing the very best

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Speaker 1: were married and intact median net worth two hundred and

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Speaker 1: twenty eight thousand, two hundred dollars. Now, this start is

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Speaker 1: fifteen years old, but we see continued evidence of this.

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Speaker 1: Married in a step family, that two hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: eight drops down to ninety six thousand, divorced, thirty two thousand,

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Speaker 1: cohabiting eighty nine hundred. I mean, the number just drops

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Speaker 1: precipitously from that two hundred and twenty eight thousand. Again,

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Speaker 1: this is net worth, and we're going back fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: But what research does show is that men who are

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Speaker 1: married earn twenty seven percent more than when they're unmarried.

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Speaker 1: Networth of both individuals is higher, they accumulate more assets,

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Speaker 1: they retire wealthier than their unmarried peers. It's the elephant

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Speaker 1: in the room. No one wants to talk about it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sensitive to the fact that it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a tricky topic, but the data is really really clear.

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Speaker 1: When we look at the very biggest research projects across time,

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Speaker 1: they conclusively, conclusively point to marriage as being fundamental to

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Speaker 1: positive outcomes, well being, a life well lived.

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Speaker 2: So today we're going to talk about five mistakes we

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Speaker 2: want to avoid within our relationships so that we can

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Speaker 2: have very happy marriages.

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Speaker 1: So the first one is the me first mindset. Me

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Speaker 1: first mindset is pretty much talking about being selfish. It's

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Speaker 1: basically saying I'm not considering you. It's kryptonite to a marriage.

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Speaker 1: So I'll use a stereotypical exam a husband who feels

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Speaker 1: like he's entitled to a clean house and a dinner

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Speaker 1: on the table every night, and intimacy on and as

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Speaker 1: needs basis.

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Speaker 2: I think it could be even more simpler than that, though,

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Speaker 2: a husband who goes to work and his wife stays

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Speaker 2: at home and looks up after a brand new baby,

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Speaker 2: but just expects that his job is outside of the

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Speaker 2: house and her job's inside the house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, or even worse, a husband who goes to work

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Speaker 1: and a wife who goes to work, but he still

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Speaker 1: thinks that she's going to carry the line's share of

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Speaker 1: the labor in terms of keeping the house maintained, in

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Speaker 1: that kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: And the mental load.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's just this Essentially, it's a selfishness, like

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Speaker 1: I'll look after me and you look after everything else.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's endlessly pursuing goal expense of the relationship whatever

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Speaker 1: it is. Regardless the scenario, selfishness subsumes any goodwill and

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Speaker 1: it raises resentment and crushes the companionship. There's another example

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Speaker 1: of me first mindsets as well, and that is when

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Speaker 1: somebody tries to mold their husband or wife into their

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Speaker 1: perfect version of who they want them to be or

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Speaker 1: who they think they would be as well. Like I'm

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Speaker 1: an outgoing person. If I'm constantly to get you to

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Speaker 1: be outgoing and you're not an outgoing person, I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to mold you into my perfect version of me because

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Speaker 1: I think I'm awesome and I think that's how life

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Speaker 1: should be. But it's not going to work because I'm

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Speaker 1: failing to understand your hopes and dreams and goals not

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Speaker 1: just for life, but maybe just for the next five

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Speaker 1: minutes while we're introducing ourselves to these people. And if

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Speaker 1: we can't calibrate appropriately, that selfishness causes a relationship to

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Speaker 1: come undone.

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Speaker 2: That's why we just do so well together. We're so different.

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Speaker 2: But I actually think while we haven't tried to change

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Speaker 2: each other, we've inadvertently taken on some of each other's traits.

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Speaker 2: And I used to be really shy. I didn't used

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Speaker 2: to kind of get out there in.

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Speaker 1: The early days. I was selfish and just thought that

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Speaker 1: you needed to be like me. Well, but I love

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Speaker 1: your differences to me. Now I just cherish them and

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Speaker 1: celebrate them now.

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Speaker 2: But you bounce off the walls all the time, and

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Speaker 2: so my nice quiet has kind of calmed you down

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Speaker 2: a little bit over time.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe just a bit, just a bit, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's your it's just me getting older and

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Speaker 1: feeling more tired. But either way, let's look at number two.

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Speaker 2: Number two is the maybe I do mindset.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this one is basically about commitment. People who question

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Speaker 1: commitment create conditions that are going to develop into a

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Speaker 1: lack of trust. If I don't feel like you're fully committed,

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Speaker 1: If I don't feel like you're fully committed, then I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to invest as much. And this is a

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Speaker 1: really provocative thing to say. I recognize this, but it's

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Speaker 1: based on solid evidence from one researcher in particular. His

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Speaker 1: name is Scott Stanley. He's done some work with Glenna Rhodes,

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Speaker 1: Howard Markman. These guys have been looking at this thing

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Speaker 1: called the cohabitation effect since the nineteen eighties, and what

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Speaker 1: their research shows is that when people slide into a

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Speaker 1: relationship rather than decide to get into a relationship, commitment

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Speaker 1: levels are lower, which means that investment levels are lower,

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Speaker 1: which means that trust levels are lower, and the corollary,

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Speaker 1: reduce commitment, reduce trust, poor a relationship quality. This is

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Speaker 1: the maybe I do mindset, and it seems to backfire

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Speaker 1: in terms of having a healthyer relationship.

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Speaker 2: A couple of weeks ago, we shared our story on

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Speaker 2: Valentine's Day how we met and the things that made

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Speaker 2: up our relationship, and you shared a story about our

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Speaker 2: early days in that first year. We had an altercation

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Speaker 2: at some point and I kind of looked at you

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Speaker 2: and said, well, if you feel like that, maybe we

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Speaker 2: should just get divorced and you know, save each other

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Speaker 2: a whole heap of trouble. And at that point you

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Speaker 2: acknowledged that that was a conversation that we would never

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Speaker 2: have again. That divorce wasn't kind of.

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Speaker 1: Not a word we'll say, and it's not an option

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Speaker 1: in this relationship because we do treat each other well

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Speaker 1: and we can just figure this stuff out.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that changed something in both of

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Speaker 2: us as we recognized that we were in this for

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Speaker 2: good and bad, that they were going to be challenging times,

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Speaker 2: but we were completely committed to one another and to

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Speaker 2: the relationship that we were creating.

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Speaker 1: It makes such a difference when we have a strong

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Speaker 1: commitment rather than maybe I do mindset. So number one,

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Speaker 1: the me first mindset guaranteed to undermine and harm your marriage.

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Speaker 1: Number two that maybe I do mindset. The third number

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Speaker 1: three expecting a soulmate marriage. No such thing as a soulmate.

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Speaker 1: Got to get over the idea that there's a soulmate.

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Speaker 1: If you think that a relationship is about intense emotion

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Speaker 1: and romantic connection, it's almost certain that you're going to

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Speaker 1: be crushed at some point when the emotion subsides and

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Speaker 1: the romantic connection dims. The best research that I found

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Speaker 1: in this show is that if you're expecting a soulmate marriage,

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Speaker 1: you should be prepared for a new relationship sometime in

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Speaker 1: the future because soilmates simply don't exist. It's fine to

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Speaker 1: have a whole lot of romance and togethern is happening,

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Speaker 1: but relationships are also about children and commitment and financial

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Speaker 1: stuff and stuff. Yeah, that's right, stuff and you usually

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Speaker 1: find that your soulmate isn't quite the person that you

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Speaker 1: thought that they were when the rubber hits the road,

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Speaker 1: when randomness and volatility start to hit you.

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Speaker 2: Having been through twenty five years.

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Speaker 1: Together, hey, excuse me, excuse me? Twenty five years? Can

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Speaker 1: I just mention this? We have approximately thirteen days until

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Speaker 1: it's twenty six.

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Speaker 2: Twenty six years, I know, but we're still at twenty five. OK. Fine.

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Speaker 2: What we have experienced is that beautiful ebb and flow

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Speaker 2: of life together. And sometimes things are cruising and we

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Speaker 2: feel like we're flying on cloud nine, and other times

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Speaker 2: we feel like we're in the depths of I don't know,

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Speaker 2: some swamp in the middle of nowhere. It gets really

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Speaker 2: really hard. But having that absolute knowledge that yours committed

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Speaker 2: to the relationship as I am, means that we can

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Speaker 2: work through that and recognize and know that and we're

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Speaker 2: not going to stay down in that swamp forever. That

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Speaker 2: there's going to be another mountain peak and we're going

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Speaker 2: to enjoy life again together.

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Speaker 1: Number four failure to connects. If you want to harm

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Speaker 1: your marriage, just stop connecting. Connection means seeing, hearing, valuing technology, interfairs, priorities, compete,

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Speaker 1: life gets really busy, babies, you get exhausted. Intimate quality declines.

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Speaker 1: Not for everyone, but for many people. The amount of

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Speaker 1: effort you put in reduces because you've got to put

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Speaker 1: effort into so many other places. Date night, date night disappears,

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Speaker 1: and all of our best intentioned efforts start to fail

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Speaker 1: because of just running house. Running a life gets in

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Speaker 1: the way. Failure to connect is a guaranteed way to

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Speaker 1: harm your marriage. Got to find ways, got to find times,

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Speaker 1: got to find the capacity to prioritize and see here

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Speaker 1: and value one another.

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Speaker 2: I think the magic word here is intention.

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Speaker 1: I'd go further. It's not just about having the intention,

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Speaker 1: it's actually putting into action. I intend to connect with you,

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Speaker 1: but I get busy. Intention isn't quite far enough. There's

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Speaker 1: that old saying that the road to hell is paved

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Speaker 1: with good intentions. You can intend to do this and

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Speaker 1: intend to do that. I think it actually requires action.

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Speaker 1: It requires connection and commitment, and that's what makes the

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Speaker 1: marriage work. If you want to harm your marriage, just

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Speaker 1: focus on intention rather than action.

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Speaker 2: Well, number five is being around others who don't value marriage.

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Speaker 1: You want to hear some crazy stats. This from a

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Speaker 1: researcher named roseen Quist and colleagues who said this. In

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Speaker 1: one of their studies, they found that the likelihood of

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Speaker 1: divorce increased by seventy five percent for individuals with a

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Speaker 1: divorce friend. Let me say that again, if your friends

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Speaker 1: are divorced, your chances of divorce go up by seventy

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Speaker 1: five percent. Some other researchers, McPherson and colleagues found that

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Speaker 1: this effect extends to friends of friends. So if you

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Speaker 1: are one degree of separation removed from the divorce se

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Speaker 1: you're still at a thirty three percent higher chance of divorce.

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Speaker 1: So there's this ripple effect. There's a divorce contagion, you

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Speaker 1: might even call it divorce ideation, where within social circles

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Speaker 1: there's going to be some influence on attitudes and behaviors.

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Speaker 1: Well beyond just the people involved in the divorce. Friends

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Speaker 1: and even friends of friends are at increased risk of divorce.

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Speaker 2: I remember, just after I finished high school, I caught

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Speaker 2: up with one of my high school teachers. I absolutely

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Speaker 2: idolized this woman. She was amazing, and she was so

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Speaker 2: instrumental in me getting through year twelve, but loving my

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Speaker 2: class with her and you and I were engaged by

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Speaker 2: that stage. But I was going through this a little

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Speaker 2: bit of an epiphany in my own life, and I

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Speaker 2: had never had someone believe in me the way you did.

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Speaker 2: I started dreaming about who I could be and what

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Speaker 2: I could achieve in my life based on the conversations

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Speaker 2: you and I had had, and the struggle I was

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Speaker 2: having was if I wanted to achieve those things, I

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Speaker 2: couldn't see how I could achieve them and have a family.

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Speaker 2: They were not congruent where I wanted to go or

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Speaker 2: where I thought I wanted to go, and where I

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Speaker 2: had committed to go. We caught up one afternoon for

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Speaker 2: afternoon tea and I was sharing just how excited I

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Speaker 2: was about getting married and all of the things that

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Speaker 2: associated with that, And as the conversation continued, I found

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Speaker 2: myself sharing with her this newfound confidence that I had.

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Speaker 2: She was my teacher, so she knew the person I

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Speaker 2: was previous, and so she could see this growth in

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Speaker 2: me that had occurred. In a sense because of my

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Speaker 2: relationship with you. You had provided me with a belief

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Speaker 2: in me that I had never experienced before, and so

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Speaker 2: the confidence that I had in what I could do

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Speaker 2: with my life like just blew out of the water.

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Speaker 2: And so as I was sharing all of these dreams

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Speaker 2: and goals and things that I, you know, were aspirations

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Speaker 2: that I was thinking about, she looked at me and

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Speaker 2: she said, Kylie, why would you ever want to get married?

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Speaker 2: She said, look at you. You've got your whole world

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Speaker 2: ahead of you. You could be any one of those things.

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Speaker 2: Why would you trap yourself in a relationship and minimize

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Speaker 2: your capacity? And I just remember walking away from that

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Speaker 2: and feeling so deeply saddened by the conversation I had.

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Speaker 2: It actually confirmed to me that while all of those

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Speaker 2: other places would have given me life experience that I

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Speaker 2: will never experience, I would never have experienced the joy

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Speaker 2: and the connection and the love and security that I've

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Speaker 2: experienced in the life that I have created with you.

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Speaker 1: Marriage matters. It may not be a popular thing to

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Speaker 1: say the research points in that direction, and certainly our

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Speaker 1: experience does, but it's about having a good marriage as well.

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Speaker 1: It's about working on it, being committed, and figuring out

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Speaker 1: how you can avoid those mistakes that harm marriage the most.

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Speaker 1: If you had to cut through the noise. It's not

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Speaker 1: just about happily ever after fantasies. It's about real world benefits.

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Speaker 1: And the data points to financial security, better outcomes for kids. Look,

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Speaker 1: it's not for everyone. I'm actually going to say that

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Speaker 1: marriage is not for everyone, and there are good reasons

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Speaker 1: for some people to not be married. But marriage isn't

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Speaker 1: just about the piece of paper. It's a foundation for

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Speaker 1: a life of meaning and joy and purpose and growth.

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Speaker 1: So I think we need to champion marriage, especially as

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Speaker 1: marriage starts to decline. We've got evidence that it's doing that.

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Speaker 1: We need to celebrate its merits and support those who

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Speaker 1: choose a marriage path. It's time to prioritize the gold,

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Speaker 1: stand and read the rewards. The Happy Families podcast is

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Speaker 1: produced by Justin Roland for Bridge Media. For more information

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Speaker 1: and about how you can make your family happier and

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Speaker 1: your marriage stronger, visit happy families dot com dot a

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Speaker 1: m HM