1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know how you fared on Friday, but 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:07,039 Speaker 1: for a lot of businesses across the Northern Territory, across Australia, 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: in fact right around the world. From what I can gather, 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: a little known computer program will It triggered this it 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: meltdown that took down digital infrastructure on a global scale 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: on Friday. 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 2: It was seemingly all at once. 8 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: Millions of computers around the world became unusable and unable 9 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: to be rebooted. Now, the scale of the art each 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: which some experts have called unprecedented, soon became clear as 11 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: reports came in from almost every conceivable business. So airports 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: were thrown into chaos. We know that checkouts at supermarkets 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: were down, government departments, emergency services, universities, law firms, you 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: name it. 15 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 2: No industry seemed to be spared. 16 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: Now joining us on the line is Rimt University School 17 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: of Engineering Associate Professor doctor Mark A. 18 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: Gregory. Good morning to you, doctor Gregory. 19 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 3: Good morning, Thanks so much. 20 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 2: For your time this morning. 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: Now, doctor Gregory, the situation on Friday was like nothing 22 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: I'd sort of seen before. 23 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: I mean, people aren't able to put petrol in their cars. 24 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: There was news outlets going into meltdown businesses not able 25 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: to take FOSS payments. 26 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 2: Was it unprecedented. 27 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 3: Well, and in recent memory it has been. However, we 28 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 3: of course did have the major McAfee outage globally in 29 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 3: twenty ten. We've had other outages in two thousand and 30 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 3: six and two thousand and three and even earlier than this. 31 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 3: So what we see in this particular instance, what was 32 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: slightly different was that this was software installed on enterprise computers, 33 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: and you know, that means that if there's a problem 34 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 3: which there was with the update being sent out and 35 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 3: it was a bad update, was that everything seemed to 36 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 3: crash at the same time, and that meant really that, 37 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 3: you know, we were not able to function for a 38 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: while there on Friday, I mean planes, trains, trams, hospitals, banks, 39 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 3: sort of everything went offline. People couldn't pay it, checkouts 40 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 3: and coals and Wlworth or other stores. And Australia is 41 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 3: pretty proactive today in trying to deal with cybersecurity and 42 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: cyber problems, and unfortunately this is a major provider of 43 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: you know, security monitoring software, and so you sort of 44 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 3: trying to do the right thing. We're having all this 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 3: good software and then unfortunately it's brought about this global crash. 46 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it seems so sort of strange, I suppose, 47 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 1: And it really showed our reliance I think, on the 48 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: Internet and on that software. 49 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 3: Most certainly. It does highlight that there is software being 50 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 3: put in, you know, put onto our computers and put 51 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 3: onto the computers of enterprise systems, business, government, that we're 52 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 3: really reliant upon, and if something does go wrong with it, 53 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 3: then everything can crash, as we saw. Now, we've been 54 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: talking about how to deal with this type of event 55 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 3: for quite a long time. We've got a lot of 56 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: science fiction movies and books written and based around this 57 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 3: type of event. And it was good to see that 58 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 3: government did move forward very quickly with holding emergency management 59 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 3: meetings and working with companies to get key systems back online. 60 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 3: But it also does show us the flip side, our 61 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 3: legislation and regulations are not really fit for purpose. We 62 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 3: don't seem to have the performance standards, the minimum performance 63 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 3: standards in our regulations that companies need to meet, like 64 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: the OPTAs outage that only occurred a couple of weeks, 65 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: a couple of months ago, you know again that brought 66 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 3: down a national network. You know, this has done the 67 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: same thing to Australians. We haven't moved forward. We haven't 68 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 3: seen any improvements to legislation and regulations. We keep getting 69 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 3: statements about, oh, we're looking at this, and we're talking 70 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 3: about that, and we're wondering about this, but we're not 71 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: moving forward. We're not seeing changes where we need it, 72 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 3: and we also more importantly, we're not seeing improvements. And 73 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: how can people claim compensation because there's a lot of 74 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 3: businesses and people who were going to you know, lose 75 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 3: substantial amounts of money because of this, and you know, 76 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 3: you've also got the potential loss of life again like 77 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,360 Speaker 3: the OPTAE outage, because all the hospitals that you know, 78 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 3: I could see they're all affected by this as well, 79 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 3: and so we're still to learn, you know, what the 80 00:04:58,360 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 3: damage was there. 81 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: It was like a nightmare. I think for a lot 82 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: of businesses. 83 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,600 Speaker 1: I cannot even begin to imagine what it must have 84 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: been like for those that had sort of customers banked up. 85 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: But you know, imagine the airlines trying to check people in. 86 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: We're so reliant on the internet, Like I remember back 87 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: in the day when I worked in retail, and at 88 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: least we sort of had backup systems if the FPOs 89 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 1: machine went down and that kind of thing. Whereas these 90 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: days we really don't like there's some businesses that don't 91 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: even seem to be able to deal with cash. 92 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: Well, that's right, and it is important to keep some 93 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 3: cash at home for times like this. This is yet 94 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 3: another reminder that the cash of society is a fantasy. 95 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 3: That is, you know, something that is not reliable. We 96 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 3: don't have the systems in place, so therefore cash is king. 97 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 3: Keep some cash at home. And also, you know, in 98 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 3: times like this, it's important to be aware of scammers. 99 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 3: You know, there have been a lot of scammers coming out. 100 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 3: It would work telling people that they've got problems with 101 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: their computer and that they need to do this. Do 102 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 3: that rule number one. If someone calls you up about 103 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 3: something relating to your finances or computers, never do anything 104 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 3: on the spot, Say to them what company they from, 105 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 3: hang up, call the company back and not. In nine 106 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 3: times out of one hundred, you'll find out that there 107 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 3: was a scammer had nothing to do with that company. 108 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: And so strange need to be very very careful about scammers. 109 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 3: If they're concerned about something that someone said to them 110 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 3: on the phone or by email or text. Stop, talk 111 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 3: to someone else in the family, get advice, talk to 112 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 3: an IT person, you know, get advice. Never do anything 113 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 3: on the spot. That's the big problem. Stop, wait nothing. 114 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 3: Can't wait an hour or two for you to get 115 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 3: advice and get assistance. 116 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: That is very good advice, because you're so right. You know, 117 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: this is the kind of time when scammers will be 118 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: coming out of the woodwork, won't they, and be sort 119 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: of trying to capitalize on the misfortune of Friday. 120 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 3: Most certainly. And you know, it's really unfortunate that the 121 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: criminals in the world use these events to further their 122 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 3: own aims. And so what we've got to do is 123 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 3: we've got to, you know, get into the practice of stop, 124 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 3: get advice, think about it, wait a while before we act, 125 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 3: never act on the spot. Most of the times these 126 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: scammers succeed when they're able to convince people that they 127 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: need to do something right now. 128 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, doctor Gregory, very quick one before I let you go. 129 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think this is going to 130 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: mean in terms of departments, businesses, other organizations sort of 131 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: you know, putting some safeguards in place to try to 132 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: ensure that they're not impacted in this way. 133 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 2: Again, Well, I. 134 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 3: Think that it comes down to risk management practices need 135 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 3: to be updated. We need to be having that strong 136 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 3: conversation with government about implementing minimum performance standards. Australia really 137 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: is lagging behind the rest of the world. We don't 138 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: have minimum performance standards and telecommunications, in broadcast media and 139 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 3: in software and streaming. You know, we're still getting seven 140 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 3: to twenty p streaming when that was an interim standard 141 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 3: twenty years ago. You know, we really are a third 142 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 3: world nation in terms of our IT and tech today 143 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 3: and a lot of that is down to government. Government 144 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 3: is really reluctant. They seem to be hiding whenever these 145 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 3: events occur. Government needs to step up, put in some 146 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 3: minimum performance standards and move the nation forward. 147 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: Well, doctor Mark Gregory, Associate Professor in the School of 148 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: Engineering at Rmius University, really good to speak with you 149 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: this morning. 150 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 2: I appreciate your time. 151 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 3: My pleasure. 152 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: Thank thank you.