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Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Oz. Today is Thursday,

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Speaker 1: the twenty fourth of February. I'm Zara Seidler, joined by

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Speaker 1: Tom Crowley to take you through the day's news. Tom

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Speaker 1: kick us off. It was a big day of international

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Speaker 1: news yesterday.

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Speaker 2: It was and Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced Australia will

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Speaker 2: be imposing several sanctions on Russia amid the ongoing crisis

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Speaker 2: between Russia and Ukraine. Some of the sanctions include travel

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Speaker 2: bands and financial sanctions on eight members of Russia's Security Council,

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Speaker 2: as well as financial sanctions on the Ukrainian regions of

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Speaker 2: Donetsk and Luhansk. Australia will also place sanctions on five

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Speaker 2: Russian banks.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday, Victorian MP Fiona Patten, who Billy spoke to in

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Speaker 1: the podcast, introduced the bill she was speaking about in

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Speaker 1: the state's upper House to decriminalize all illegal drugs in

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Speaker 1: the state. The bill would see people using or in

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Speaker 1: possession of drugs issued with a notice by police to

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Speaker 1: attend a treatment or education program. If they comply, they

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Speaker 1: would not go through the court process, and it would

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Speaker 1: only apply to small quantities of drugs. To an international

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Speaker 1: story and tong is Internet connection to the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world has been restored after five weeks. The undersea

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Speaker 1: cable ruptured after a massive volcanic eruption and tsunami. Domestic

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Speaker 1: cables which serve as outlying islands are still yet to

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Speaker 1: be repaired. Finally, some Thursday, good news that the US

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Speaker 1: women's soccer team has ended its years long dispute with

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Speaker 1: the US Soccer Federation over equal pay. The national women's

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Speaker 1: team will now be paid the same as their male

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Speaker 1: counterparts in bonuses and prize money that the US Soccer

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Speaker 1: Federation has control over. They'll receive twenty four million dollars,

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Speaker 1: most of which will be back paid to compensate the players. Tom,

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Speaker 1: it would be remiss of us to talk about anything

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Speaker 1: else on today's pod given the news of the week.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about the Ukraine crisis.

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Speaker 3: Who in the lord's named is gives them the raid

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Speaker 3: to declare new so called countries on territory that belong

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Speaker 3: to his neighbors. This a flagrant violation of international law

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Speaker 3: and demands a firm response from the international community.

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Speaker 1: Tom, you've been following the situation in Ukraine closely tell

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Speaker 1: us what's happening. We hear ideas of World War three

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Speaker 1: and there being a major dispute. What's the reality.

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Speaker 2: So it's not world War three, but it certainly is

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Speaker 2: a major dispute. It's been a dramatic few days. Are

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Speaker 2: concerning a few days and the situation in Ukraine. I

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Speaker 2: think it's fair to say looks like it will get

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Speaker 2: very ugly, but it is important to put things in perspective.

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Speaker 2: We've noticed a few people commenting on our stories saying,

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Speaker 2: you know, is this world War three. We can be

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Speaker 2: very definitive in saying that's not what's happened. What has

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Speaker 2: happened is that Russia has moved its troops into eastern Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: and specifically, as we mentioned at the top of the show,

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Speaker 2: into the breakaway regions of Donetsk and Luhunsk. These are

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Speaker 2: the regions that are already under control of rebels who

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Speaker 2: are backed by the Russians, but now actual Russian troops

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Speaker 2: are there and Vladimir Putin's officially recognized them as independent states.

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Speaker 2: He did that in a very dramatic speech earlier this week,

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Speaker 2: where he said a number of things that have been

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Speaker 2: taken as signs that he'll invade the rest of Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: So he said Russia created Ukraine, it was never a

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Speaker 2: genuine state, and he said that if Ukraine doesn't back down,

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Speaker 2: that there will be and I quote, all responsibility for

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Speaker 2: the possible continuation of bloodshed will be entirely on their conscience.

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Speaker 2: So Ukraine continues to say that it hopes for diplomacy

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Speaker 2: and it wants a peaceful solution, but they've said that

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Speaker 2: they will defend their territory forcefully if it comes to it.

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Speaker 2: So what that means is is that an armed conflict

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Speaker 2: between Ukraine and Russia is now likely. But as far

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Speaker 2: as World War III is concerned, there's no sign yet

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Speaker 2: that Ukraine's Western allies, so by that we mean the

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Speaker 2: US and the members of the Western Military Alliance NATO,

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Speaker 2: including the UK, France and Germany. There's no indication that

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Speaker 2: they plan to send in their troops and I suppose

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Speaker 2: to declare war on Russia. They will support Ukraine in

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Speaker 2: a range of other ways, but there's no sign that

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Speaker 2: there'll be troops on the ground from those countries.

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Speaker 1: So you've mentioned other ways that countries can support Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: What are some of these ways for people that might

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Speaker 1: not be familiar.

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Speaker 2: So, firstly, and it may sound like a bit of

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Speaker 2: a lost cause at this point, but they will keep

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Speaker 2: calling for peace and calling for diplomacy. All of the

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Speaker 2: Western leaders they're still asking Putin to reconsider, to back down,

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Speaker 2: and I think the UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson said

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Speaker 2: they keep doing that until the last possible second, but

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Speaker 2: they're sounding more and more resigned to the fact that

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Speaker 2: he won't do that. So they're taking other measures too.

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Speaker 2: So one of those is sanctions, and tom what are sanctions?

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Speaker 2: So sanctions are basically economic penalties, and countries use sanctions

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Speaker 2: all the time. The West has actually been using them

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Speaker 2: against Russia since twenty fourteen because of the situation in Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: so they're not new, but the West has gone further

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Speaker 2: than before in the last few days. So the US

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Speaker 2: has cut off too Russian banks from doing any business

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Speaker 2: in America or with Americans. We've done the same here

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Speaker 2: in Australia, so of several other Western countries. And in addition,

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Speaker 2: there have been restrictions placed on Buyingian government debt, and

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Speaker 2: Germany has also halted the approval of a proposed gas

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Speaker 2: pipeline between Germany and Russia. So so ways to basically

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Speaker 2: try and hit Russia with economic pain as a deterrence.

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Speaker 2: And then the other big way to support Ukraine is

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Speaker 2: through military funding and financial assistance. So the US has

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Speaker 2: spent two point five billion dollars in the last few

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Speaker 2: years funding the Ukrainian military and sending an equipment, and

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Speaker 2: other countries have helped as well, and Western countries including

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Speaker 2: Australia have offered cybersecurity support as well to ward off

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Speaker 2: Russian cyber attacks. So support in a military sense from

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Speaker 2: a distance rather than troops on the ground.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned troops on the ground, but said earlier that

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem at least like an imminent reality that

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Speaker 1: Western allies will send troops to Ukraine. Is there any

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Speaker 1: situation where that could change, where Western military could mobilize

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Speaker 1: to fight Russia and we'd end up with something closer

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Speaker 1: to a world war?

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Speaker 2: So hopefully not. Of course. The answer to that seems

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Speaker 2: to be that the line is if Putin attacks a

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Speaker 2: member of NATO, things will change. So again, NATO is

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Speaker 2: a Western military alliance. It's the US, it's Canada, and

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Speaker 2: it's I think twenty eight European countries. Ukraine is not

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Speaker 2: one of them. Ukraine wants to be one of them.

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Speaker 2: It's applied and it has in principle approval to join NATO.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of one of the reasons this conflict is

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Speaker 2: happening in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Can you just elaborate on that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So Ukraine has wanted to join NATO for some time. Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: of course, borders Russia, and Putin has been quite consistent

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Speaker 2: over a number of years in saying that Russia wouldn't

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Speaker 2: accept Ukraine on its border being a member of the

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Speaker 2: NATO alliance. He said a few days ago that NATO's

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Speaker 2: enemy is Russia and that the Ukraine would be used

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Speaker 2: as a springboard to attack Russia. So he's consistently opposed

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Speaker 2: Ukraine joining NATO, And at the moment they're not in NATO,

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Speaker 2: it's not a member of that club. And so I

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Speaker 2: guess that's part of the reason why NATO's response so far,

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Speaker 2: and the response from all the Western allies has been

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Speaker 2: we will provide military support in the form of funding,

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Speaker 2: but we will not send our troops in. But if

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Speaker 2: Russia were to attack a country that is a member

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Speaker 2: of NATO, and again it's important to stress there's no

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Speaker 2: indication at the moment that it will, Vladimir Putin hasn't

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Speaker 2: said anything to that effect, but NATO leaders have been

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Speaker 2: warning in the last few days. If that happens, NATO

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Speaker 2: will kick into gear and its commitment is one for all,

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Speaker 2: all for one. Those are the words of the NATO

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Speaker 2: Secretary General yesterday, and the Western Allies would respond with

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Speaker 2: force essentially. Again, no indication from Putin or anyone that

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Speaker 2: that's what's going to happen next, but that's where the

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Speaker 2: line is. So we're going to talk to some foreign

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Speaker 2: policy experts over the next couple of weeks about Putin's

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Speaker 2: motivations and about his next moves. But for now, I

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Speaker 2: suppose that's why our focus is not on a world

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Speaker 2: war but on a conflict between Ukraine and Russia. And

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Speaker 2: you know, I understand people's focus on world wars and

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Speaker 2: asking the question about is this World War III? But

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Speaker 2: I think it's important to finish by saying, you know,

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Speaker 2: a war between Russia and Ukraine would be a devastating

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Speaker 2: thing in its own right, and that's why so many

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Speaker 2: of the leader's statements are desperately urging that that be avoided.

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Speaker 2: Ukraine's a very big country. It has forty four million

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Speaker 2: people in it, so the human consequences of an armed

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Speaker 2: conflict in Ukraine would be very very significant.

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Speaker 1: Indeed, on that note, if there's any aspect of this conflict,

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Speaker 1: again underscoring its significance that you want to know more

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Speaker 1: about or you want us to elaborate on, feel free

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Speaker 1: to dm us on Instagram. At The Daily Ods, we

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Speaker 1: are here to walk you through understanding the concepts and

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Speaker 1: the ideas and the updates on this story as it

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Speaker 1: continues to break. And again, it's not something that's going away.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it feels like it is growing in significance

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Speaker 1: every day, So we'll keep you updated over on Instagram

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Speaker 1: and we'll bring you as much information here on the

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Speaker 1: pod as we possibly can. Thank you as always for

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Speaker 1: tuning into The Daily Ods. If you like this pod

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Speaker 1: and want to support independent media, please leave us a

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Speaker 1: this pod into your ears every day. Thanks very much,