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Speaker 1: A very good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS.

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Speaker 1: It is Wednesday, the eighteenth of May, and today Tom

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Speaker 1: and Sam are talking all things health policy. We've just

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Speaker 1: come out of a pandemic. Everyone knows how important health is,

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Speaker 1: and today Tom will break down exactly where the major

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Speaker 1: parties sit on these policies. Before then, though, we're going

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Speaker 1: to run through what the headlines of the day are,

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Speaker 1: starting with some Coalition costing that we got yesterday.

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Speaker 2: That's right, so the Coalition released costings for thirty seven

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Speaker 2: election policies, setting out two point three billion dollars in

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Speaker 2: new spending and also three point three billion in new savings.

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Speaker 2: The Coalition has a commitment not to raise taxes, so

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Speaker 2: this new spending must either be offset with spending cuts

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Speaker 2: elsewhere or be paid for by taking on more debt.

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Speaker 2: Labour says it will release its costings on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: The evacuation of more than two hundred and sixty Ukrainian

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Speaker 1: fighters from a steel plant in Mariopol has marked the

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Speaker 1: likely end of the longest fight of the Ukraine War

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Speaker 1: to date. Ukraine has said tens of thousands of people

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Speaker 1: have been killed in Mario Pol since the start of

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Speaker 1: Russia's invasion.

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Speaker 2: Jake Daniels, who plays for Blackpool FC, has become the

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Speaker 2: first active professional male footballer in England's to come out

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Speaker 2: as gay in thirty years. In a statement, Daniels said

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Speaker 2: he was partially inspired to reveal his sexuality because of

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Speaker 2: Josh Carvallo, the Adelaide United footballer who last year became

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Speaker 2: the first openly game male footballer to play in the

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Speaker 2: A League men's competition.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news, nineteen year old Gabby Caniza has

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Speaker 1: become the youngest Australian to climb Mount Everest, completing the

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Speaker 1: climb with her mother. Caniz first climb to Everest base

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Speaker 1: camp in twenty eighteen at age fourteen. That is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: So for today's Deep Dive, brought to you by the

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Speaker 2: Judith Nilsen Institute for Journalism and Ideas, I'm joined by

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Speaker 2: Tom Crowley for this series of deep dives into big

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Speaker 2: election topics. Today we're going to talk about health and

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Speaker 2: I always find when we talk about health in the

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Speaker 2: context of an election that the human factor really comes out,

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Speaker 2: and when I hear politicians talking about health policy, they

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Speaker 2: really emphasize the impact on the individual. It's a different

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Speaker 2: tone to some of the other ones. What do you

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Speaker 2: think about the way that health has been framed this

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Speaker 2: campaign period? What problems have been identified?

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Speaker 3: Thanks Sam, It's a pleasure as always to be here.

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Speaker 3: I think that the thing that I'd say first is

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Speaker 3: what a notable absence really health has been in this

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Speaker 3: campaign when you consider it the last three years, we've

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Speaker 3: had the small business of a pandemic, which is hardly

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Speaker 3: rated to mention really in this election at all. I

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Speaker 3: don't know whether it's because people are sick of it

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Speaker 3: or politicians maybe just don't think that there's anything to

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Speaker 3: gain by talking about it, but quite clearly in a

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Speaker 3: number of health and related I guess social spending areas,

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Speaker 3: we've had three years of really revealing the strain on

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Speaker 3: our system. So the health system had a huge challenge

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Speaker 3: with COVID, and we saw hospitals all around the country

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Speaker 3: really struggling to deal with that, and I guess some

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Speaker 3: of the cracks showed in that system. Cracks also showed

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Speaker 3: in our age care system. I mean, we knew about

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Speaker 3: some of the systemic problems in age care before the pandemic,

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Speaker 3: but the pandemic kind of, you know, showed that on

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Speaker 3: a much more awful scale really sort of some of

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Speaker 3: the weaknesses in the age care quality and in the

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Speaker 3: resourcing for the sector. And then also in the National

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Speaker 3: Disability Insurance scheme, less of a COVID specific problem, but

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Speaker 3: another one where we've seen on the one hand, cost blowouts,

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Speaker 3: but on the other hand also people complaining about struggling

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Speaker 3: to access this sort of fairly new National Disability Insurance scheme.

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Speaker 3: So across all three of these areas, you know, as

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Speaker 3: you say, really important things that we expect the government

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Speaker 3: to sort of provide for the community, a lot of

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Speaker 3: strain and I guess it with a population that's living

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Speaker 3: longer than ever and I suppose in that sense getting older,

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Speaker 3: that strain is only going to kind of keep growing.

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Speaker 3: We might be out of the COVID pandemic, but there's

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Speaker 3: going to be a lot more demand for all of

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Speaker 3: these things over the coming decades. And so I think

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Speaker 3: it's a really important question to be asking about how

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Speaker 3: ready are all of these systems for that world, Where

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Speaker 3: is the funding, where are the people, and what is

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Speaker 3: the future of these sector is going to look like.

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Speaker 3: So it may not have been a huge feature in

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Speaker 3: the campaign, but I think it's an important issue to

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Speaker 3: talk about.

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Speaker 2: So we'll come back to age care and the ndis

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Speaker 2: in more detail in a minute, but let's start with

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Speaker 2: health in a more general sense. What are the two

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Speaker 2: major parties saying that they want to do to meet

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Speaker 2: this increased demand.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's fair to say, I mean, there's always, always, always, always,

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Speaker 3: there's a whole grab bag of health announcements in an election,

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Speaker 3: and it's I guess there's sort of the little bits

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Speaker 3: and pieces, and I don't say that to trivialize them. They're,

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Speaker 3: no doubt sort of very significant, but we're talking about

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Speaker 3: I guess announcements at the level of, you know, an

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Speaker 3: individual treatment that gets funded, or a particular program, or

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Speaker 3: you know, X number of new nurses to do this

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Speaker 3: particular thing. Most of the promises that we've seen from

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Speaker 3: both of the major parties this time around have been

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Speaker 3: at that level. I guess there's nothing that you'd call

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Speaker 3: hugely structural. So there's a significant number of promises. The

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Speaker 3: coalition in particular is how to focus over the last

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Speaker 3: couple of years on mental health. There's a couple of

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Speaker 3: women's health initiatives and a focus on rural health sort

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Speaker 3: of among their announcements Labor similar focuses. They're also developing

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Speaker 3: something called sort of an urgent care clinic I think

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Speaker 3: is the term for it, which is the idea of

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Speaker 3: it is basically it's a place that you can go

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Speaker 3: if you've got a broken arm that needs urgent treatment,

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Speaker 3: but you don't want to go to an emergency department.

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Speaker 3: So that's kind of I guess the big new thing

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Speaker 3: in Labour's platform. They're also reducing the cost of medicines.

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Speaker 3: As I say, though it is more about those sort

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Speaker 3: of bits and pieces and the big picture questions about

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Speaker 3: the overall funding of the health system are largely unanswered,

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Speaker 3: and particularly how much the federal government funds hospitals. This

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Speaker 3: is shaping is a really big issue for whoever wins government,

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Speaker 3: but it's something that neither party is talking about, so

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Speaker 3: state and territory governments, Labor or Liberal, are pretty much

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Speaker 3: unified on the fact that they think the federal government

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Speaker 3: needs to pay more. The moment, funding for public hospitals

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Speaker 3: is split between federal government and the states. The federal

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Speaker 3: government pays for forty five percent and the states pay

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Speaker 3: the rest. The states want that to be fifty to

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Speaker 3: fifty and they've been saying that for a long time,

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Speaker 3: and pretty much for the entire period that the Coalition's

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Speaker 3: been in government. There was an agreement under the last

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Speaker 3: Labor government that that funding would go up to a

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Speaker 3: level like that, but the Coalition government in I think

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Speaker 3: it was twenty fourteen tore that agreement up and since

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Speaker 3: then it's been a significant dispute between the federal government

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Speaker 3: and the states. It's not going anywhere. Neither party is

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Speaker 3: committing at a federal level to increase that to fifty percent,

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Speaker 3: but the state premiers have already been saying we plan

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Speaker 3: to make this very clear to whoever is the Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister aft of the election. So even though there's been

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Speaker 3: silence now, I suspect that issue will come back.

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Speaker 2: Something we haven't had a lot of silence on is

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Speaker 2: aged care. We've seen plenty of shots of both the

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister, the leader of the opposition and many of

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Speaker 2: their candidates in aged care settings, often accompanied by cups

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Speaker 2: of tea. What has the age care discussion been this election.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a really significant issue, particularly in the

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Speaker 3: wake of the Royal Commission into age care, which happened

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Speaker 3: in the last term of government, and it found really

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Speaker 3: systemic problems in the quality of care, in attracting the

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Speaker 3: right workforce, in the paved for that workforce, just in

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Speaker 3: general in the conditions and the quality of the sector.

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Speaker 3: So it's a big issue for government. In response to

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Speaker 3: that Royal Commission, the Coalition's particular focus was funding more

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Speaker 3: home care places and it also had some sort of

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Speaker 3: training measures in place that it's introduced over the last

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Speaker 3: couple of years to improve kind of the level of

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Speaker 3: training for age care workers. But Labor has made going

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Speaker 3: further on age care a big part of its election campaign.

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Speaker 3: Seems like an eternity ago, but when we had Budget

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Speaker 3: week in March, Anthony Alberoniesi's Budget reply speech this was

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Speaker 3: the big focus. Was a big announcement on age care.

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Speaker 3: It was about two point five billion dollars worth of

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Speaker 3: funding and it included higher kind of care requirements, the

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Speaker 3: amount of minutes per day that a resident is required

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Speaker 3: to receive in care. That that would increase and the

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Speaker 3: government funding would increase along with it. That there would

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Speaker 3: be a nurse required on site at agecare homes, twenty

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Speaker 3: four to seven, food standards in age care would increase,

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Speaker 3: and finally there's a case that's before the independent Fair

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Speaker 3: Work Commission the moment for higher age care pay. Now,

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Speaker 3: the government doesn't decide that itself, but Labor expressed its

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Speaker 3: support for pay increasing and said it would be happy

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Speaker 3: to fund that increase if the Fair Work Commission found

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Speaker 3: that it was something that should happen. Subsequently, the Coalition

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Speaker 3: has also said that if the Fair Work Commission ordered

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Speaker 3: an increase that they would fund it as well. So

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Speaker 3: that's sort of become another significant issue. I think that's

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Speaker 3: a pretty good rap of the age care policies, certainly

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Speaker 3: more of a feature in a structural way than health

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Speaker 3: has been.

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Speaker 2: And now turning quickly to the NDIS, this has also

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Speaker 2: featured relatively frequently on the campaign trail. What are the

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Speaker 2: parties saying here?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's featured very frequently, but with not much sort

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Speaker 3: of in the way of specifics. It's something that there

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Speaker 3: hasn't been a huge kind of dollar amount pledged to

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Speaker 3: the NDIS, so I guess for context, the NDIS was

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Speaker 3: started under the Gillard Labor government in about twenty twelve

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Speaker 3: twenty thirteen that the idea first kind of came to

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Speaker 3: pass and it started rolling out across the country over

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Speaker 3: the period of coalition government, and there are kind of

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Speaker 3: two things. I sort of mentioned this at the beginning.

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Speaker 3: Two trends that we're seeing it's costing a lot more

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Speaker 3: than was originally expected, and also there have been a

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Speaker 3: lot of complaints about people saying they're struggling to access it,

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Speaker 3: struggling to kind of negotiate the bureaucracy, and that also

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Speaker 3: people are complaining that they've had their payment amounts reduced.

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Speaker 3: It's fair to say that the two major parties are

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Speaker 3: focusing on different parts of this problem. So Scott Morrison

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Speaker 3: has talked a lot about cost issues and cost overruns

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Speaker 3: in the NDIS being a problem. Both parties are committed

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Speaker 3: to fully funding Commonwealth share of the NDIS, so that's

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Speaker 3: sort of not an issue. But I think Scott Morrison

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Speaker 3: has really tied it into his economic narrative and saying

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Speaker 3: that you know, you need to keep growing the economy

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Speaker 3: and you need to make sure the budget is healthy

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Speaker 3: so that we can continue to fund the NDIS and

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Speaker 3: has warned about cost issues in that scheme. On the

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Speaker 3: other hand, Labour's focus has been more about, you know

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Speaker 3: issues where individuals have complained about being unable to access

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Speaker 3: it or having their payments reduced, and Labor's promised a

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Speaker 3: review into why that's happening, and I guess a safeguard

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Speaker 3: mechanism to investigate when individual cases like that happen. So

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Speaker 3: they've had slightly different focuses on the scheme, but as

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Speaker 3: far as the fundamental promise, both parties are committed to

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Speaker 3: fully funding. As I said, the federal government share of

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Speaker 3: the NDAs.

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Speaker 2: Three really helpful buckets through which to look at this

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Speaker 2: giant part of our lives health. It'll be fascinating to

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Speaker 2: see in the kind of post election wrap up how

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Speaker 2: much of a role health and health spending had to

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Speaker 2: play in the way that people voted this Saturday, which

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Speaker 2: is only a couple of days away. Tom Thank you

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Speaker 2: for joining us. We'll speak to you again tomorrow. In

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Speaker 2: the meantime, have a look at our ongoing coverage of

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Speaker 2: the pre election ramp up on our Instagram at the

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Speaker 2: Daily OS. We are pumping out as much content as

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Speaker 2: we can to make sure that you're as prepared as

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Speaker 2: possible when you walk into that booth on Saturday, or

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Speaker 2: if you're going early to vote, which we're all entitled

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Speaker 2: to do. If you're a prepared early voter. Until then,

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Speaker 2: we'll speak to you tomorrow