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Speaker 1: Black Cast, Unite our voices. Black Magic Walman Podcast acknowledges

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Speaker 1: the traditional owners of the land we have recorded this

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Speaker 1: episode on. We also acknowledge traditional owners of the land

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Speaker 1: where you, the listener or viewer are tuning in from.

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Speaker 1: We would like to pay our respects to our elders

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Speaker 1: past and present and acknowledged that this always was Aboriginal

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Speaker 1: land and always will be Aboriginal land.

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Speaker 2: That's what I love about art.

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Speaker 3: It gives the opportunity to have those discussions and not

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Speaker 3: being seen as angry or violent or you.

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Speaker 2: Know, protesting.

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Speaker 3: Is it really protesting when you're protesting your own body

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Speaker 3: or controversial?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Black Magic Woman Podcast with Mandanara Bail.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to another episode of the Black Magicalman Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I am here on Cameragle Country, which is in beautiful

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Speaker 1: Sydney also known as the Orination. I can't wait for

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Speaker 1: you to meet my next guest, and we've got a

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Speaker 1: few things that we were to unpack and even made

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Speaker 1: some connections before we press record. So I can't wait

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Speaker 1: for you to share a little bit about yourself. Sis

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Speaker 1: tell our listeners if you don't mine and have views

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Speaker 1: on YouTube, your name, your mob and a bit about

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Speaker 1: where you grew up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hello and thank you for having me.

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Speaker 3: My name is Kobe and Edgun and I'm a girl

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Speaker 3: from Darwin. I grew up in Darwen and moved when

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Speaker 3: I was about five years old to Adelaide. I've got

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Speaker 3: biggest mob family and lots of different I guess races,

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Speaker 3: all the naughty and nice and everything with a bit

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Speaker 3: of spice. So Filipino, Aboriginal from lat three different language groups, English, Austrian, Irish, Scottish,

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Speaker 3: a bit of everything.

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Speaker 2: That melting pot of Darwin, you.

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Speaker 1: Know it is it is. People say that the Darwin's

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Speaker 1: a melting pot and.

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Speaker 2: Here I am.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, big family it Adelade.

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Speaker 1: You said you grew up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when we moved to Adelaide or Tasmania for a year,

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Speaker 3: weirdly because my stepfather he grew up there and his

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Speaker 3: grandfather passed away.

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Speaker 2: So we stayed there for like a year.

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Speaker 3: And then moved to Adelaide and that's where I did

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Speaker 3: my high school and university studies and then wanted to

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Speaker 3: come to Sydney because I'm a big Boodoo queer and

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Speaker 3: wanted to run.

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Speaker 1: A mark my family down here too. Do you know

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Speaker 1: Caira comes sing.

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Speaker 3: I do know Caira. Yeah, she works up in Marley there. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: she's Brenda's niece, Brenda Croft's niece. Yeah, I know her

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Speaker 3: from around the track. She does deadly work over there.

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Speaker 3: She's clear too, one of our biggest mob queer todays

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Speaker 3: around here.

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Speaker 1: Well, I marched to Marti Grass with her, that's deadily first.

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Speaker 1: It was actually a dream of mine to get on

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Speaker 1: that parade, but I just didn't want to be on

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Speaker 1: anyone's float. So I was on the float that actually

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Speaker 1: won for the best float, which one was.

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Speaker 2: It was the memorial real float Okay, yeah, for a.

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Speaker 1: Brother boy who passed away. Yes, I was on that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and my.

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Speaker 1: Brother Greg Phillips was a queen on the front of it.

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Speaker 1: But my yeah, my lot of my family and community here.

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Speaker 1: I grew up partying in Oxford Street.

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Speaker 2: I didn't get that, like they closed that down before

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Speaker 2: I could.

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Speaker 1: Well, I was here then and it was the best.

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Speaker 2: That's why I came.

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Speaker 3: Because my uncle was just like you know, Uncle Gary Lee,

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Speaker 3: his beautiful uncle, great great artist as well. And he yeah,

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Speaker 3: when I was younger, he was I was had like

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Speaker 3: mohawk and wearing like butch clothes. And stuff, and he's like,

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Speaker 3: but I know you're not real feminine. But I know

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Speaker 3: you're not real butch either. So gave me Tiffany jewelry

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Speaker 3: and he's like you can be a bit of.

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Speaker 2: A mix of both, you know. And I'm like, thanks uncle,

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Speaker 2: and he's like, you need to go to Sydney. I

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Speaker 2: grew up in Sydney.

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Speaker 1: And go run on. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then I was like, all right, oh, come Sydney,

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Speaker 3: lock out laws, no party.

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Speaker 1: Terrible in Covid. I know.

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Speaker 2: So woman, I'm married. Oh good, I did it. You

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Speaker 2: did it, you did it.

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Speaker 1: Need the night live.

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Speaker 3: No, I came to the Big Pond. I found myself

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Speaker 3: a fish and yes, you're not related. No, No, she's white.

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Speaker 1: Because of the bloody stolen generation. Right, but we're here today,

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Speaker 1: and I know that you're doing a lot of work

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Speaker 1: in so many different spaces. Yeah, and you're representing out

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Speaker 1: there in Bankstown all over the shop, but living here

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Speaker 1: in Redfern.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, living in Redfern. I've lived all over.

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Speaker 3: When I moved to Sydney, I was working at the

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Speaker 3: Art Gallery of New South Wales. I was working for

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Speaker 3: Tracy Moffin. Actually she was doing the Venice Bionali and

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Speaker 3: I was one of her assistants. So I moved over

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Speaker 3: and then started working for the art gallery there for

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Speaker 3: like eight years. And during that time, when you land

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Speaker 3: in Sydney you just end up, you know, hop scotching

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Speaker 3: around the city. It's really hard to find your roots.

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Speaker 3: So I lived in Red fan fresh Water, over this

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Speaker 3: side and then all over you know, Australia Street in

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Speaker 3: Marrickville there with all the queers and all the lovelies there.

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Speaker 2: My local pub was super queer. I loved it.

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Speaker 3: Just a hop, skip and jump away from my house.

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Speaker 3: I could walk home at two o'clock in the morning

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Speaker 3: and be right yeah and have biggest mob.

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Speaker 2: Fun with everyone. And then now I'm back in Redfern.

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Speaker 3: I lived in Red Fernd with my one of my

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Speaker 3: sister girls, Nicole Monks, and she's an artist. She had

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Speaker 3: a little boy, little boy, Bitty Bitdy, at five years old,

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Speaker 3: and she's like, well, if you can deal with a kid,

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Speaker 3: you can come live with me.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, yeah, I'm right with kids.

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Speaker 1: I got a lot of mob.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm right.

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Speaker 3: She's like, in Sydney, most people don't want to live

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Speaker 3: with five year old kids and I'm like, oh, I

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Speaker 3: don't give.

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Speaker 2: A start, Like I don't care.

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Speaker 1: Serious side.

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Speaker 2: I moved in and first thing I cooked for her.

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Speaker 1: Now you're auntie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, chili mudcrab first meal. And now that kid loves

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Speaker 3: his seafood, he's full. I'm getting him, like Darwin Palette.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, making sure because there's that kind of Malaysian Indonesian.

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Speaker 1: There's even Chinese japan influence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah we're Asian.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We traded with Silhouesi for two hundred years prior to colonization.

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Speaker 3: You know tripang ce cucumber that went all the way

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Speaker 3: up to China and back.

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Speaker 2: And people don't talk about that.

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Speaker 3: Because that is a really amazing piece of evidence of

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Speaker 3: us being, you know, a very well developed economy. We

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Speaker 3: had training, having international relations, We had international relations for

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Speaker 3: two hundred years prior to colonization. The mccasson move will

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Speaker 3: come over six months of the year and set up camp.

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Speaker 3: Our word for money is rupia, our word for suscils,

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Speaker 3: breast for milk, a word for milks.

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Speaker 1: So their language became part of our local dialects and languages.

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Speaker 3: And culture to like, you know, they traded still with us,

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Speaker 3: you know, steel all the there's like heaps, big history

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Speaker 3: of steel cloth, tobacco, you know, marriage as well. You

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Speaker 3: know they went over there and married up and had

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Speaker 3: family and were buried there and biggest story there.

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Speaker 1: But there was a actual what do you call it

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Speaker 1: when there's a reunion. There was something in the early

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Speaker 1: nineties where the Darwin government flew over Indonesian people, about

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Speaker 1: six of them who were descendants of abersh On people, to.

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Speaker 3: Honor that trade. Ye, yeah, that relationship. Yeah, we still

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Speaker 3: do it. Like I went to Gama two years ago

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Speaker 3: now and that Yeah, we had brother Abdi there. Abdi's

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Speaker 3: an artist and he came over and you know, did

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Speaker 3: that ceremony with the I think it was a good

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Speaker 3: much mob that he did it with.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember, but you know that ceremony.

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Speaker 3: So they you know, he did his dance and then

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Speaker 3: they had their reply and re enacted that meeting on

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Speaker 3: the beach that they'd usually have at the start of

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Speaker 3: a season.

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Speaker 1: Did we watch that plant? We were there that year,

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Speaker 1: So we've been a garment at the same time.

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Speaker 2: We've probably been walking down the street. You have not

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Speaker 2: even seen each other.

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Speaker 1: Because Marrickville is like death but like the place to be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm quiet person unless someone puts the camera in

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Speaker 3: front of my face and change.

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Speaker 1: And the next minute, next minute. Yeah, so what are

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Speaker 1: you doing now?

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Speaker 2: Like you're curating still, So I'm a curated by trade.

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Speaker 3: So I finished high school and I was the first

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Speaker 3: person from my family to finish high school. Immediate family,

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Speaker 3: real geek like Choristar school captain type geek, proper geeks. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: high achiever, Yeah, I don't know b's and you know,

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Speaker 3: a couple of a's and caesar, but not hugely high

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Speaker 3: achiever in comparison to the rest of the world.

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Speaker 1: But but what still and in a leadership position? Why

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Speaker 1: are you at school?

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Speaker 2: I was in the you know, in the ring.

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Speaker 3: I want to go so yeah, and then yeah, my

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Speaker 3: art teacher was like, you should probably do an arts

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Speaker 3: degree because I was like, I don't know what I

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Speaker 3: want to do. I like sports or my brothers and

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Speaker 3: art do sports my art, but you know, you can't

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Speaker 3: really make money from art. Maybe I'll be a teacher.

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Speaker 3: I've got a scholarship to do a teaching did one

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Speaker 3: term of it and was like, I can't do this.

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Speaker 3: If this woman tells me that I have to do

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Speaker 3: X Y and Z to teach a class. Like there's

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Speaker 3: so many different ways to teach something. It's just like

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Speaker 3: you can't do this, this and this, and I'm like

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Speaker 3: I can.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to doubt that non completely different approach.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I worked to Adelaide High School for ages

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Speaker 3: when I was a kid or kid eighteen nineteen, twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty one, and then yeah, it.

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Speaker 2: Was like I'll just try curating.

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Speaker 3: Like it's this big, kind of scary looking thing when

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Speaker 3: you look at curators and what they do, but Adelaide

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Speaker 3: was a good place to do it. I did Time

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Speaker 3: and Do Festival, which was the inaugural festival with Nicki

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Speaker 3: Compston there. I was twenty four. That was a huge

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Speaker 3: amount of experience for me. You know, I just roughed

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Speaker 3: it like most art curators for the first few years,

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Speaker 3: you know, six different jobs and in one calendar year

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Speaker 3: and having to apply for grants and just exhausted all

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Speaker 3: the time.

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Speaker 2: But nothing changes.

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Speaker 1: So there's no money as a curator, Like tell me,

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Speaker 1: it's like.

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Speaker 3: All arts practices, like there's no money until you're the

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Speaker 3: top like ten percent, and everyone wants to wear something

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Speaker 3: that you've made or be in a room that you've curated.

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Speaker 1: I can't. I didn't realize it. I know it's quite

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Speaker 1: I know the arts in Genue that a lot of

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Speaker 1: our mob in particular like Struggle.

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Speaker 3: I'm basically ADMIN last, so it's like yeah, same same,

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Speaker 3: different as Admin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So you're here in Sydney you're curating. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what are you working on now? Anything that yeh can hear?

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Speaker 2: There's so much we see.

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Speaker 3: There's like the National Portrait Gallery down in Canberra. I've

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Speaker 3: just there's a show up at the moment with Joan

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Speaker 3: Ross and that's my first show working with a non

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Speaker 3: Indigenous person. Actually, she's Glaswegian and really really fun. She's

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Speaker 3: just a really good friend of mine, and she confronts

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Speaker 3: the colonial colonial agreed, the superiority superiority complexes that came

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Speaker 3: on the shores with those big boats, and how we've

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Speaker 3: ended up where we are today because of all of that.

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Speaker 3: And she's really good fun. I like working on with

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Speaker 3: different people. And you know, we've got that big Captain

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Speaker 3: cook that's like worth several million dollars hanging up next

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Speaker 3: to one that she's made out of krusty.

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Speaker 1: Carpet at the National Gallery.

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Speaker 2: National Portrait Gallery, National Portrait gallery.

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Speaker 1: Is this where there was also a Gina Ryan Hank piece.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, that's across the road, but yeah, from it.

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Speaker 1: And she was demanding that they remove it. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they were like, but this is.

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Speaker 2: Our it is Yeah, you can't. Sorry it did it?

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Speaker 1: It went all around the world, didn't it. And now

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Speaker 1: more people have seen it. No one would have even

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Speaker 1: known that it was there. Nah.

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Speaker 2: And she didn't kick up stick and he does portreous

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Speaker 2: like that. That's what it gave the.

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Speaker 1: Artist, this kind of global spotlight and recognition.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, Vincent's really lovely.

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Speaker 3: He's quite shy sometimes, but when he speaks he can

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Speaker 3: be very you know.

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Speaker 2: His work's very serious as well. I've bumped into him

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Speaker 2: a fair bit.

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Speaker 1: Through his grandson, your great grandson, grandson, great grandson, great

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Speaker 1: grandson for Albert Namage. Oh yeah, wow, you've met him.

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Speaker 2: I've worked with talk about him.

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Speaker 1: We do art tours. We need to connect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's been my career. Curators. That's what we do.

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Speaker 3: We do art tours and explain art and write lots

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Speaker 3: of stuff and do heaps of research. I basically make

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Speaker 3: a beautiful space for people to tell their stories and

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Speaker 3: try to be the translator between their world and the

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Speaker 3: rest of the world.

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Speaker 1: And the institutions all of it at the same time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got to know how to navigate all of that. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So ten years working in institutions. Started at the Art

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Speaker 3: Gallery of South Australia, moved over to Art Gallery of

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Speaker 3: New South Wales and then Powerhouse. And I quit working

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Speaker 3: for institutions when the referendum happened and I just didn't

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Speaker 3: like the way that the world was, the politics were

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Speaker 3: treating our lives.

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Speaker 2: And you know, yet again just who was showing up

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Speaker 2: for us?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was like, I can't keep working for

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Speaker 3: government if government doesn't work for me. And I've learned

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Speaker 3: the playbook. I know what you're about. I respect you,

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Speaker 3: but you can't have any more of my time.

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Speaker 2: Sorry.

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Speaker 1: My mum said you what do you keep your friends

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Speaker 1: close but your enemy is closer. But she also said

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Speaker 1: to go and learn the white men's ways.

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Speaker 2: Well that's why I was there, and learn.

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Speaker 1: And then come back and bring those skills or experiences

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Speaker 1: back to committityes. So the Powerhouse is was that more independent.

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Speaker 3: The little brother, little brother of Art Gallery of New

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Speaker 3: South Wales. So back in the day, all right here

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Speaker 3: we go you want to hear about histories.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: The first kind of ever gallery or space that held

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Speaker 3: objects in Sydney was in the Botanic Gardens and Jonathan

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Speaker 3: Jones made a really amazing work for the Cawdor Public

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Speaker 3: Art Projects, bar Angle Jara and it was about these

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Speaker 3: this building and this building had all of these artifacts

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Speaker 3: from Polynesia, Melanesia, huge building. It was during the time

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Speaker 3: when they first figured out how to make electricity.

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Speaker 2: It fire, biggest fire. Everything went up only ash. That's it.

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Speaker 3: It was that hot that fire and all of these

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Speaker 3: cultural artifacts died. And from there they set up the

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Speaker 3: Art Gallery Society, which became the Art Gallery of New

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Speaker 3: South Wales, which was the whole heap of you know,

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Speaker 3: people who were really keen on the arts and wanted

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Speaker 3: to collect art and wanted Sydney to be a hub

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Speaker 3: for art and be the place to be in Australia

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Speaker 3: for art. And then the Powerhouse Museum was established as

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Speaker 3: it's like brother and that's more about the activity of doing,

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Speaker 3: and you know they look more at processes of things,

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Speaker 3: so you know, one of their first big projects was

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Speaker 3: the Castle Hill site of eucalyp plantations and those eucalyid plantations.

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Speaker 3: They tested all the different eucalypt types to see, Okay,

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Speaker 3: which one's best for oils, which one's best for tannins,

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Speaker 3: which one's best for making houses with all of that

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Speaker 3: kind of scientific stuff, And the Powerhouse holds that knowledge,

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Speaker 3: and then the art gallery holds like, like I guess,

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Speaker 3: high art and expression of art in that context.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you see a lot of shows that were at

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Speaker 1: the Powerhouse, like it's a creative space.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about showing that process as well as the product,

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Speaker 3: which is why.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's like the Prisbone Powerhouse, Sydney Powerhouse, and

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Speaker 1: they all kind of connected to the galleries.

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Speaker 2: No, not always.

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Speaker 3: Those guys are just like they kind of established via

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Speaker 3: state or territory, and they're not always. They're all independent

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Speaker 3: from from themselves and kind of had different ways of establishing.

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Speaker 3: But a lot of the time it was to create

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Speaker 3: places for Australian art and to be housed.

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Speaker 2: And the importance of that.

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Speaker 3: Obviously goes back to the collecting and collecting institutions and

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Speaker 3: why do we collect who decided to collect things? It

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Speaker 3: wasn't you know, within indigenous culture, we most of our

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Speaker 3: objects are ephemeral for a reason.

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Speaker 2: You know, they're meant to die after time.

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Speaker 3: Whereas this kind of where did the collecting methodologies come from?

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Speaker 3: Their scientific methodologies of collecting, you know, and then now

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Speaker 3: we have these beautiful art galleries and museums. But the

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Speaker 3: hard of it is we first started to collect scientific things,

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Speaker 3: including people's bodies.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and cultural artifiling heads.

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Speaker 3: And that was a part of the colonial process. I

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Speaker 3: own this object now, and that it's a part of

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Speaker 3: my collection. This thing that where you think you own

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Speaker 3: it because you've got a sample of it, and that

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Speaker 3: idea of ownership, and that's a psychological thing. You know,

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Speaker 3: Black fellows might have a piece of land, but I

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Speaker 3: don't feel like you own it.

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Speaker 1: It's like a paper. Yeah, I do you own a property.

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Speaker 1: You own the piece of paper, not the actual land.

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Speaker 3: And what was colonization like it was you know, these

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Speaker 3: beautiful words written on a piece of paper that people

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Speaker 3: that spoken understood that language said all right, yeah, well

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Speaker 3: that makes sense to me, or right it must be true. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: move on, let's not ask the person that's actually you know,

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Speaker 3: the person being subjected to this thought or idea.

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Speaker 1: And this is the beauty of art, right, that representation

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Speaker 1: still retelling you know, keeping history alive and keeping people accountable.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's an issue. It isn't is, Sue.

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Speaker 1: I don't think in this country where there's a massive

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Speaker 1: denial of our history, our shared history.

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Speaker 2: I think that.

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Speaker 1: You must get so much.

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Speaker 2: It's an intellectual field. So like it.

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Speaker 3: It's seemed different like so, I think R and B

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Speaker 3: is an intellectual field, but it's not necessarily appreciated as

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Speaker 3: such by you know, the white canon of what is

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Speaker 3: important to their lives and knowledge and systems and blah

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Speaker 3: blah blah. But art is art is something that we

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Speaker 3: can kind of meet them intellectually on a level. And

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Speaker 3: it's a really good football field for us to get

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Speaker 3: a few good tackles in because we can re evidence

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Speaker 3: what they've written in their books and put in their

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Speaker 3: museums and say, hey, hold on a second, right here,

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Speaker 3: you wrote that in your own words, and I've just

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Speaker 3: made an artwork about it. It's not political, it's just

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Speaker 3: the truth telling. So that's what I love about art.

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Speaker 3: It gives that opportunity to have those those discussions and

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Speaker 3: not being seen and angry or violent or you.

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Speaker 2: Know, protesting.

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Speaker 3: Is it really protest when you're protesting your own body

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Speaker 3: or controversial, it's not. So that's why I went into

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Speaker 3: the arts because and Richard Bell has this really great

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Speaker 3: quote he's amazing political artist.

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Speaker 2: My uncle get out. Well then fuck you would know that.

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Speaker 3: I do know.

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Speaker 1: He's like all of his art.

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Speaker 2: Why did he become an artist? Because he wouldn't get

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Speaker 2: arrested for saying what he wanted to say?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like he would have he has he become.

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Speaker 2: He's like everyone loves him. He's like ooriginal arts uncle.

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Speaker 2: He's not just your uncle. We think he's all our uncle.

391
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Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, we love He's kind of led the way.

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Speaker 1: One of many people that have been part of a

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Speaker 1: So he's part of Proper Now collective and they're in

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Speaker 1: Brisbane and there's a whole of deadly people.

395
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Speaker 2: Marley's kind of like the Sydney version of.

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Speaker 1: The sum version of Proper Now that it's I don't

397
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Speaker 1: know why though, like still in twenty twenty four that

398
00:18:57,551 --> 00:18:59,951
Speaker 1: people like uncle Richard seen is Oh that's a bit

399
00:18:59,991 --> 00:19:04,431
Speaker 1: provocative or that's a bit radical. It's truth telling and

400
00:19:05,231 --> 00:19:09,151
Speaker 1: that's the issue in this country. People don't don't feel

401
00:19:09,191 --> 00:19:11,031
Speaker 1: comfortable with some of the truths.

402
00:19:11,311 --> 00:19:13,511
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I guess that's what happens when you're not

403
00:19:13,631 --> 00:19:18,311
Speaker 3: used to I don't know, looking at your own privilege

404
00:19:18,431 --> 00:19:22,311
Speaker 3: and understanding why that might make you feel uncomfortable. Because

405
00:19:22,391 --> 00:19:26,351
Speaker 3: if you're uncomfortable from what he says, then maybe it's

406
00:19:26,391 --> 00:19:27,271
Speaker 3: because you should.

407
00:19:27,071 --> 00:19:37,791
Speaker 1: Be self working. Yeah, and am soulf searching.

408
00:19:37,871 --> 00:19:39,831
Speaker 3: That might need to happen, And it doesn't come from

409
00:19:39,871 --> 00:19:43,151
Speaker 3: anywhere either, Like even his bells serum is still popular today,

410
00:19:43,191 --> 00:19:45,191
Speaker 3: you know, you know Aboriginal LANs, A white thing is

411
00:19:45,271 --> 00:19:46,031
Speaker 3: what it says.

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Speaker 2: And he's not wrong in a lot of senses.

413
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Speaker 3: You know, arnam lend Mob they change their barks from

414
00:19:51,471 --> 00:19:54,631
Speaker 3: just being racked to putting in pictures of the animals

415
00:19:54,671 --> 00:19:57,191
Speaker 3: so that Blunders could try and figure it out easier.

416
00:19:58,151 --> 00:20:02,271
Speaker 3: So you know, he altered, they altered those specific paintings

417
00:20:02,311 --> 00:20:05,191
Speaker 3: to make it easier for Blunder Mob, not for their

418
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Speaker 3: own people.

419
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Speaker 2: So it was the white thing to do that.

420
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Speaker 3: And introduce those things to try and make it easier

421
00:20:11,111 --> 00:20:14,671
Speaker 3: for non indigenous people to understand us. Same with Uncle

422
00:20:15,071 --> 00:20:22,951
Speaker 3: Vincent then Albert Namajeera, his uncle, grandfather, great great grandfather,

423
00:20:23,271 --> 00:20:27,191
Speaker 3: he painted watercolors in that vein so that it could

424
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Speaker 3: be appreciated for like picturesque.

425
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Speaker 2: He could paint dot paintings.

426
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Speaker 3: He chose not to for a reason because it's easier

427
00:20:34,991 --> 00:20:37,791
Speaker 3: for people to see, Oh yeah, that's that range there,

428
00:20:37,831 --> 00:20:40,591
Speaker 3: that Mount Gillen Rangers, if you're a blunder, because you've

429
00:20:40,591 --> 00:20:42,711
Speaker 3: seen it with your eyes, than it is for you

430
00:20:42,791 --> 00:20:47,631
Speaker 3: to see it in their symbolic representations, which is dot paintings.

431
00:20:47,711 --> 00:20:52,791
Speaker 1: And that's when we talk about abation art. It's it's versatile.

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00:20:52,951 --> 00:20:56,391
Speaker 1: People have adapted, it's evolved. It's not just traditionally dot

433
00:20:56,471 --> 00:20:59,671
Speaker 1: painting anymore. So you see a lot of art these days,

434
00:20:59,951 --> 00:21:05,191
Speaker 1: like Honey Judy Watson like it is work. Yeah, she's

435
00:21:05,551 --> 00:21:09,271
Speaker 1: big bronze sculptures. You've got Megan Cope over on you

436
00:21:09,271 --> 00:21:15,031
Speaker 1: know Juba doing oysters and stuff. You've got weavers doing

437
00:21:15,031 --> 00:21:18,591
Speaker 1: all different art in the work that you're doing. Now.

438
00:21:19,391 --> 00:21:23,511
Speaker 1: I guess is there a massive art show happening?

439
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Speaker 3: Is it?

440
00:21:24,871 --> 00:21:25,111
Speaker 2: Yeah?

441
00:21:25,151 --> 00:21:27,391
Speaker 3: Well on Saturday, we've got that same, same different show

442
00:21:27,431 --> 00:21:32,231
Speaker 3: at black Blacktown Arts Center, which is a Binali Blacktown

443
00:21:32,271 --> 00:21:35,391
Speaker 3: b and Aali actually and that's a it's not huge show,

444
00:21:35,551 --> 00:21:38,871
Speaker 3: but it's a it's it's more of a local community.

445
00:21:38,871 --> 00:21:40,631
Speaker 2: It's a local community like art center.

446
00:21:41,351 --> 00:21:43,191
Speaker 1: It's quite like there's a lot of people that are

447
00:21:43,231 --> 00:21:44,911
Speaker 1: engaged with it in the community.

448
00:21:45,031 --> 00:21:47,151
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's why I want to see them.

449
00:21:47,231 --> 00:21:47,471
Speaker 1: Yeah.

450
00:21:47,671 --> 00:21:51,111
Speaker 3: So usually most of my work I've done either like

451
00:21:51,551 --> 00:21:54,111
Speaker 3: you know, training people in desert, you know, how to

452
00:21:54,151 --> 00:21:57,711
Speaker 3: hang a painting, or you know, I like being at

453
00:21:57,751 --> 00:22:01,111
Speaker 3: bush most of the time. I'm not a curator who

454
00:22:01,231 --> 00:22:03,991
Speaker 3: likes to be you know over in New York, preferred

455
00:22:04,031 --> 00:22:05,591
Speaker 3: to be in your color.

456
00:22:05,551 --> 00:22:05,951
Speaker 2: Thank you.

457
00:22:06,991 --> 00:22:09,511
Speaker 3: And so when I work in institutions, a lot of

458
00:22:09,511 --> 00:22:11,991
Speaker 3: my work is focused in in cities and in big

459
00:22:12,031 --> 00:22:15,111
Speaker 3: buildings that are you know, made out of beautiful marble

460
00:22:15,151 --> 00:22:16,591
Speaker 3: that I'm scared I'll slip on.

461
00:22:18,031 --> 00:22:20,311
Speaker 2: And so it's nice to go into the communities.

462
00:22:20,351 --> 00:22:22,951
Speaker 3: And I've lived in Sydney for nearly eight years now

463
00:22:23,031 --> 00:22:25,311
Speaker 3: and I haven't had the opportunity to work with the

464
00:22:25,311 --> 00:22:28,631
Speaker 3: local arts center. I did a show out the Bearded Tit,

465
00:22:28,871 --> 00:22:33,711
Speaker 3: my favorite gay little pub courts to stop sucking.

466
00:22:33,311 --> 00:22:35,711
Speaker 2: The black tit what it's called, That's.

467
00:22:35,551 --> 00:22:40,111
Speaker 3: What it was called, Yeah, about how you know, people

468
00:22:40,151 --> 00:22:42,031
Speaker 3: need to get off the black tit and maybe you know,

469
00:22:42,191 --> 00:22:44,391
Speaker 3: start trying to find their own resources and shit.

470
00:22:46,111 --> 00:22:48,391
Speaker 1: So some of these shows, right, that's taking a piss,

471
00:22:48,471 --> 00:22:50,871
Speaker 1: but it's humor.

472
00:22:50,911 --> 00:22:53,511
Speaker 2: You need a bit of humor with all the trauma.

473
00:22:53,591 --> 00:22:55,231
Speaker 3: And that's kind of what I've been doing a lot

474
00:22:55,271 --> 00:22:57,351
Speaker 3: with my work, is focusing on joy, like I can.

475
00:22:57,991 --> 00:22:59,991
Speaker 3: You know, I've studied art for long enough to know

476
00:23:00,311 --> 00:23:02,791
Speaker 3: I can be real serious and give a two hour

477
00:23:02,831 --> 00:23:05,791
Speaker 3: presentation on the steer of an artist. But that doesn't

478
00:23:06,071 --> 00:23:08,551
Speaker 3: move me, and I don't think it moves many people anymore.

479
00:23:09,351 --> 00:23:10,951
Speaker 3: I think we need a little bit of humor and

480
00:23:11,111 --> 00:23:12,551
Speaker 3: same same with different and different.

481
00:23:12,591 --> 00:23:12,751
Speaker 1: You know.

482
00:23:12,791 --> 00:23:15,391
Speaker 3: I was brought on by Rachel Kang there, she's the director.

483
00:23:16,231 --> 00:23:17,791
Speaker 3: She had a bit of an idea about what she

484
00:23:17,871 --> 00:23:21,231
Speaker 3: wanted to focus on and look at ways that different

485
00:23:21,231 --> 00:23:25,031
Speaker 3: people connect and people connect with nature in different cultures.

486
00:23:25,071 --> 00:23:27,791
Speaker 3: And I was like, I was sitting in Darwin with

487
00:23:27,791 --> 00:23:32,751
Speaker 3: my uncle Gary, and I was like, it's all just same, same, different.

488
00:23:32,831 --> 00:23:35,591
Speaker 3: But I was like, okay, yeah, that's the title of

489
00:23:35,631 --> 00:23:37,791
Speaker 3: the show. Uncle then and he's like well, I was like, uncle,

490
00:23:37,831 --> 00:23:39,231
Speaker 3: what do you mean by that? And he's like, well,

491
00:23:39,271 --> 00:23:43,431
Speaker 3: you know black follows that were colonized here, we eat rice.

492
00:23:43,511 --> 00:23:47,271
Speaker 3: Black follows on that side, they eat potatoes, same, same, different,

493
00:23:48,311 --> 00:23:51,071
Speaker 3: we all have these different ways of connecting with each other.

494
00:23:51,191 --> 00:23:53,071
Speaker 3: It's our ways of being doing a noyse if you

495
00:23:53,111 --> 00:23:56,591
Speaker 3: want to get into like axiologies, you know, ontologies, the

496
00:23:56,631 --> 00:24:02,311
Speaker 3: scientific ways of looking at it and pistemologies jumping into that.

497
00:24:02,711 --> 00:24:05,351
Speaker 1: I reckon on Colin, that's cancer.

498
00:24:06,671 --> 00:24:07,271
Speaker 2: On colleges.

499
00:24:07,591 --> 00:24:10,551
Speaker 3: These big words they are, they're big words, but it's

500
00:24:10,591 --> 00:24:13,871
Speaker 3: just it's just the same, same, different Like I love.

501
00:24:13,711 --> 00:24:15,911
Speaker 1: That the fact you're saying, you know, I can talk

502
00:24:15,991 --> 00:24:18,231
Speaker 1: this talk, go and present on this for two hours

503
00:24:18,231 --> 00:24:22,591
Speaker 1: and give a highly intellect your account of somebody's life,

504
00:24:23,071 --> 00:24:25,791
Speaker 1: or just go out bush and just be with mob.

505
00:24:25,871 --> 00:24:27,191
Speaker 2: I'd just rather be with mob.

506
00:24:27,551 --> 00:24:30,791
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that's the where I get my joy from.

507
00:24:31,271 --> 00:24:33,191
Speaker 3: And so same, same different kind of looks at that

508
00:24:33,271 --> 00:24:35,551
Speaker 3: I want people to talk about. You know, I was

509
00:24:35,591 --> 00:24:38,551
Speaker 3: talking about the Siluesian our Indonesian.

510
00:24:40,351 --> 00:24:41,871
Speaker 2: We're very Asian in Darwin.

511
00:24:41,951 --> 00:24:42,151
Speaker 1: You know.

512
00:24:42,431 --> 00:24:44,551
Speaker 3: The only reason I reckon that we're called like you know,

513
00:24:44,631 --> 00:24:46,511
Speaker 3: Australia is because of the colony.

514
00:24:46,551 --> 00:24:48,191
Speaker 2: We actually are very Asian.

515
00:24:48,391 --> 00:24:50,231
Speaker 1: We are in the Asian neighborhood.

516
00:24:50,311 --> 00:24:52,471
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're closer to their mob over there than we

517
00:24:52,511 --> 00:24:55,231
Speaker 3: are to you know, people down in Tasmania. Yeah, so

518
00:24:55,591 --> 00:24:58,071
Speaker 3: we have that Asian culture and people forget about it.

519
00:24:58,151 --> 00:25:00,511
Speaker 3: And I'm like, you know all the way that people

520
00:25:00,751 --> 00:25:06,431
Speaker 3: migrate here and start families, especially people of color, same, same,

521
00:25:06,471 --> 00:25:08,231
Speaker 3: different a lot of the time, you know, getting away

522
00:25:08,231 --> 00:25:11,191
Speaker 3: from war, getting away from poverty, trying to start a

523
00:25:11,191 --> 00:25:15,791
Speaker 3: better life, whatever it is. And they have similarities within that. Also,

524
00:25:15,871 --> 00:25:19,391
Speaker 3: the way that we we pray, the way that we

525
00:25:19,671 --> 00:25:23,631
Speaker 3: religiously do things, you know, religious religion is you know,

526
00:25:23,831 --> 00:25:26,671
Speaker 3: the repetitive movements of something, you know, with intention, and

527
00:25:27,671 --> 00:25:29,511
Speaker 3: you know the way that we cook food together, the

528
00:25:29,551 --> 00:25:33,231
Speaker 3: way we prepare food. There's similarities. Blood chung is. We

529
00:25:33,271 --> 00:25:36,871
Speaker 3: could talk about blood chung for three hours, and you know,

530
00:25:37,031 --> 00:25:40,111
Speaker 3: just as a food. And how many different families have

531
00:25:40,191 --> 00:25:42,031
Speaker 3: different ingredients that they.

532
00:25:41,991 --> 00:25:44,031
Speaker 2: Salty plums, yeah, saldi plums.

533
00:25:44,191 --> 00:25:47,871
Speaker 1: Everyone eats soldi plums most people in Yeah. I love

534
00:25:47,951 --> 00:25:48,671
Speaker 1: soldy plums.

535
00:25:48,871 --> 00:25:49,631
Speaker 2: That was our lollies.

536
00:25:49,711 --> 00:25:52,831
Speaker 1: My husbands Fijian, he loves salty plums.

537
00:25:52,911 --> 00:25:53,711
Speaker 2: Yeah.

538
00:25:53,951 --> 00:25:59,671
Speaker 1: I was like, what the heck? Olia, the lemon with vinegar,

539
00:26:00,231 --> 00:26:02,671
Speaker 1: some salt, nah, but not salty plums.

540
00:26:02,671 --> 00:26:04,311
Speaker 2: No, salti plums are grow up on them.

541
00:26:04,351 --> 00:26:07,031
Speaker 1: Just had miss Staple and your teeth for red.

542
00:26:07,231 --> 00:26:10,551
Speaker 3: Teeth a red all the time, Yes, stains on your hands,

543
00:26:10,591 --> 00:26:12,271
Speaker 3: the day's taste.

544
00:26:12,391 --> 00:26:14,431
Speaker 2: Yeah, used to they were our lollies. You know, we

545
00:26:14,511 --> 00:26:15,671
Speaker 2: didn't have like you know.

546
00:26:16,431 --> 00:26:17,111
Speaker 1: They're an Asian.

547
00:26:17,671 --> 00:26:21,391
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're dried plums, dried plums. They're dried preserved.

548
00:26:20,911 --> 00:26:22,911
Speaker 3: Plums with heaps of salt on them so they're super

549
00:26:22,951 --> 00:26:26,071
Speaker 3: sour and put them in your mouth and mango dried mango.

550
00:26:26,871 --> 00:26:29,031
Speaker 1: Pray for salty plums, I know, Yeah, I pray for

551
00:26:29,071 --> 00:26:29,591
Speaker 1: salti plums.

552
00:26:29,591 --> 00:26:31,591
Speaker 2: I've got salty plums. They're just sitting in there when

553
00:26:31,591 --> 00:26:32,111
Speaker 2: I miss home.

554
00:26:32,911 --> 00:26:36,711
Speaker 1: Yeah, here in Sydney, there is a community here and

555
00:26:36,751 --> 00:26:39,391
Speaker 1: you're mentioning like it's rewarding and you get joy from

556
00:26:39,431 --> 00:26:43,111
Speaker 1: being with MOB. Do you ever get to go back home.

557
00:26:43,071 --> 00:26:43,711
Speaker 2: All the time?

558
00:26:44,031 --> 00:26:44,471
Speaker 1: Yeah?

559
00:26:44,551 --> 00:26:49,431
Speaker 3: I do because I work in the arts and well

560
00:26:49,631 --> 00:26:51,671
Speaker 3: and Tea's kind of a hub for you know, to

561
00:26:51,671 --> 00:26:53,231
Speaker 3: to scatter from there if you want to go to

562
00:26:53,351 --> 00:26:54,511
Speaker 3: art centers.

563
00:26:55,031 --> 00:26:55,911
Speaker 2: So I go home a.

564
00:26:55,871 --> 00:26:58,831
Speaker 3: Lot because if I want to work with MOB, I

565
00:26:58,911 --> 00:27:00,511
Speaker 3: try to go out there and make sure that my

566
00:27:00,551 --> 00:27:03,391
Speaker 3: projects I'm going out there. I don't like being a

567
00:27:03,431 --> 00:27:06,031
Speaker 3: cue reader who just sits there and is like I

568
00:27:06,071 --> 00:27:09,111
Speaker 3: want five of those beautiful bags from that community by

569
00:27:09,231 --> 00:27:11,831
Speaker 3: this date, thank you very much. Like I need to

570
00:27:11,871 --> 00:27:15,071
Speaker 3: go there and with that relationships and.

571
00:27:15,271 --> 00:27:19,031
Speaker 1: Is there advice then for our mom who might want

572
00:27:19,031 --> 00:27:20,071
Speaker 1: to work in this space.

573
00:27:21,591 --> 00:27:24,231
Speaker 3: What if there's so much work there? Honestly, there's so

574
00:27:24,311 --> 00:27:26,631
Speaker 3: much work, Come and join me. Honestly, I love it.

575
00:27:26,631 --> 00:27:29,471
Speaker 3: It's good fun. There's different ways that you can curate. Like,

576
00:27:29,511 --> 00:27:32,071
Speaker 3: I'm not a very serious curator. I like to have

577
00:27:32,151 --> 00:27:34,551
Speaker 3: fun with my work. I have a joke, you know,

578
00:27:34,591 --> 00:27:37,111
Speaker 3: I do some writing, I'm on stage sometimes you can.

579
00:27:37,311 --> 00:27:39,111
Speaker 2: There's lots of different things you can do. I'm sitting

580
00:27:39,111 --> 00:27:40,551
Speaker 2: here talking to you.

581
00:27:40,551 --> 00:27:40,751
Speaker 3: You know.

582
00:27:40,791 --> 00:27:42,591
Speaker 2: I thought i'd be a book bitch, but I'm.

583
00:27:42,391 --> 00:27:44,311
Speaker 1: Not self in point your own boss.

584
00:27:44,391 --> 00:27:45,671
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm independent.

585
00:27:45,791 --> 00:27:46,311
Speaker 1: Independent.

586
00:27:46,671 --> 00:27:49,111
Speaker 3: I work part time for Agency Projects, which is just

587
00:27:49,271 --> 00:27:53,591
Speaker 3: made a move to advertise for its first CEO indeed CEO.

588
00:27:53,951 --> 00:27:56,391
Speaker 3: So please, if you know anyone who's deadly that wants

589
00:27:56,431 --> 00:27:58,271
Speaker 3: to come work with me and Leila and Mately and

590
00:27:58,311 --> 00:28:01,951
Speaker 3: the team, we're looking for a deadly indigenous CEO really

591
00:28:02,591 --> 00:28:07,151
Speaker 3: in Melbourne National Remit. I work part time for them,

592
00:28:07,511 --> 00:28:09,111
Speaker 3: and then the rest of the time I do things

593
00:28:09,111 --> 00:28:13,631
Speaker 3: like this. Yeah, Bankstown working with Joan Writing. I do

594
00:28:13,751 --> 00:28:15,271
Speaker 3: lots of writing. I love writing.

595
00:28:15,551 --> 00:28:16,671
Speaker 1: And what do you do with the writing?

596
00:28:16,951 --> 00:28:18,151
Speaker 2: I write about artists?

597
00:28:18,791 --> 00:28:23,191
Speaker 3: Yeah, I write essays for artists, write diaristically as well

598
00:28:23,231 --> 00:28:26,511
Speaker 3: about people like you. Today you're like, I'm not going

599
00:28:26,551 --> 00:28:30,151
Speaker 3: to read your bio. You can introduce yourself. Yeah, the credentials,

600
00:28:30,231 --> 00:28:33,191
Speaker 3: that's a big part of like being advertising yourself, I

601
00:28:33,191 --> 00:28:35,231
Speaker 3: think as a person nowadays, and I don't think it

602
00:28:35,271 --> 00:28:36,831
Speaker 3: comes well for black fellows at all.

603
00:28:36,951 --> 00:28:38,831
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't do it. I've refuse to do it.

604
00:28:38,871 --> 00:28:40,751
Speaker 3: You know, some will sit there and to you and

605
00:28:40,791 --> 00:28:42,271
Speaker 3: be like I did this and I did that, and

606
00:28:42,711 --> 00:28:44,271
Speaker 3: like you can google me if you really want to,

607
00:28:44,351 --> 00:28:46,111
Speaker 3: but maybe just get to know me as a person

608
00:28:46,191 --> 00:28:47,511
Speaker 3: and if you like me, then work with me.

609
00:28:47,871 --> 00:28:49,511
Speaker 1: Well that's the thing, right, relationships.

610
00:28:49,551 --> 00:28:50,991
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I prefer those things.

611
00:28:51,031 --> 00:28:55,031
Speaker 3: And you know, just the kind of credentials freaks me

612
00:28:55,071 --> 00:28:57,271
Speaker 3: out a little bit, so I try it away.

613
00:28:57,311 --> 00:29:00,511
Speaker 1: It's a kind of waderline where you're big noting it is.

614
00:29:00,551 --> 00:29:02,831
Speaker 1: I know, when you're growing up in community, you kind

615
00:29:02,831 --> 00:29:05,311
Speaker 1: of I don't know, there's something about our culture where

616
00:29:05,311 --> 00:29:06,911
Speaker 1: there's this kind of humbleness about it.

617
00:29:07,071 --> 00:29:09,071
Speaker 3: You can't pretend like you're better than the person that

618
00:29:09,111 --> 00:29:11,231
Speaker 3: sits next to you, even if they otherwise.

619
00:29:11,231 --> 00:29:12,871
Speaker 1: People said, we're supposed to come from.

620
00:29:12,751 --> 00:29:15,791
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's no, that's not how we work for you.

621
00:29:16,431 --> 00:29:19,031
Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah, a bit weird trying to do curating.

622
00:29:19,111 --> 00:29:21,991
Speaker 3: But the curating is good fun. You get really good opportunities,

623
00:29:21,991 --> 00:29:23,991
Speaker 3: Like I've traveled so much. I've gotten to see so

624
00:29:24,031 --> 00:29:27,431
Speaker 3: many different parts of the world, had so many amazing opportunities.

625
00:29:27,591 --> 00:29:31,431
Speaker 1: Favorite country. Is there a favorite country? It has to

626
00:29:31,431 --> 00:29:34,751
Speaker 1: be had outside of this butiful place.

627
00:29:34,871 --> 00:29:37,471
Speaker 2: No, honestly, I just got I get home.

628
00:29:37,511 --> 00:29:40,351
Speaker 1: Nowhere else in the world you could go. That was

629
00:29:40,511 --> 00:29:42,431
Speaker 1: like reminding me of home. Now.

630
00:29:43,151 --> 00:29:45,751
Speaker 3: I liked Singapore because people looked like me, and I

631
00:29:45,991 --> 00:29:48,911
Speaker 3: like their food, like they have amazing food. I could

632
00:29:48,951 --> 00:29:51,111
Speaker 3: just live there and eat all day every day. Yeah,

633
00:29:51,151 --> 00:29:51,871
Speaker 3: that was good fun.

634
00:29:52,031 --> 00:29:53,951
Speaker 1: My kids are looking for the next holiday.

635
00:29:54,311 --> 00:29:55,231
Speaker 2: Oh is that what you ask?

636
00:29:55,271 --> 00:29:58,111
Speaker 1: So they're asking. One wants to go to Singapore, one

637
00:29:58,151 --> 00:30:00,351
Speaker 1: wants to go to Thailand, and the other one wants

638
00:30:00,351 --> 00:30:00,951
Speaker 1: to go to Japan.

639
00:30:01,071 --> 00:30:02,111
Speaker 2: So I've been to Japan.

640
00:30:02,191 --> 00:30:02,391
Speaker 1: Japan.

641
00:30:02,431 --> 00:30:02,991
Speaker 2: It's good too.

642
00:30:03,071 --> 00:30:06,991
Speaker 3: Yes, that's real deadly, Yes, that's freak out though, Like

643
00:30:07,111 --> 00:30:10,071
Speaker 3: it's not for like, you know, going into nature or anything. Yeah,

644
00:30:10,231 --> 00:30:11,671
Speaker 3: you want to go to all the big mulls and

645
00:30:11,711 --> 00:30:12,831
Speaker 3: stuff and eat all the fruit.

646
00:30:13,351 --> 00:30:14,031
Speaker 1: Yeah.

647
00:30:14,071 --> 00:30:16,351
Speaker 3: And then Singapore a bit same, but they've got like

648
00:30:16,471 --> 00:30:19,271
Speaker 3: it's freaky city because it's real multicultural. It's kind of

649
00:30:19,311 --> 00:30:21,831
Speaker 3: like you know how Venice was like a you know,

650
00:30:21,871 --> 00:30:23,471
Speaker 3: a port for people to come in and out of.

651
00:30:23,671 --> 00:30:26,071
Speaker 2: It's a bit like that, and but heaps of Asian mob.

652
00:30:26,311 --> 00:30:28,431
Speaker 3: So it's like, I don't know, I've traveled overseas to

653
00:30:28,631 --> 00:30:34,471
Speaker 3: plenty of places, but I'm like racially ambiguous, like people

654
00:30:34,511 --> 00:30:38,031
Speaker 3: can't pick me like from and so it's like being

655
00:30:38,031 --> 00:30:40,671
Speaker 3: around places where I can blend.

656
00:30:40,351 --> 00:30:43,711
Speaker 2: In weirdly, like yeah, another radar. Sometimes we went to

657
00:30:43,751 --> 00:30:45,591
Speaker 2: Belgium with my wife a couple of weeks ago, and

658
00:30:45,671 --> 00:30:46,911
Speaker 2: I did not like it at all.

659
00:30:47,551 --> 00:30:48,951
Speaker 1: It was just different.

660
00:30:48,631 --> 00:30:50,791
Speaker 2: Liken, Like I just didn't enjoy it.

661
00:30:50,871 --> 00:30:53,671
Speaker 3: I'm like, you can't no birds, no trees, like no

662
00:30:53,711 --> 00:30:55,071
Speaker 3: one had dogs walking down the street.

663
00:30:55,111 --> 00:30:58,151
Speaker 2: I don't know, just weird. Just everything was brick and beer.

664
00:30:58,871 --> 00:31:00,831
Speaker 2: It's like and I'm like that's good, Like you've got

665
00:31:00,871 --> 00:31:02,231
Speaker 2: beautiful culture here.

666
00:31:02,311 --> 00:31:04,911
Speaker 1: That's part of that's the that's what they do.

667
00:31:04,911 --> 00:31:06,871
Speaker 3: I don't want a street market, not a pub. I

668
00:31:06,911 --> 00:31:09,991
Speaker 3: don't know, so yeah, that's what I like. I guess preference,

669
00:31:10,031 --> 00:31:10,871
Speaker 3: personal preference.

670
00:31:11,151 --> 00:31:12,991
Speaker 1: I just I know that a lot of listeners are

671
00:31:12,991 --> 00:31:16,831
Speaker 1: going to be like blown away that you've makes people

672
00:31:16,991 --> 00:31:21,311
Speaker 1: just kind of don't think blackfellows can do what you do,

673
00:31:21,631 --> 00:31:24,991
Speaker 1: can do what I do, travel to twenty different countries,

674
00:31:25,511 --> 00:31:27,711
Speaker 1: you know, like there's so limited. A lot of people

675
00:31:27,751 --> 00:31:31,311
Speaker 1: are very limited. They're thinking of what we can do

676
00:31:31,351 --> 00:31:34,111
Speaker 1: and achieve, and it's sounded one thing, but at the

677
00:31:34,111 --> 00:31:35,151
Speaker 1: same time doesn't bother me.

678
00:31:35,311 --> 00:31:37,871
Speaker 3: I'm just fluking at this, Like honestly, I've been fluking

679
00:31:37,911 --> 00:31:39,231
Speaker 3: it since day one, and.

680
00:31:39,151 --> 00:31:39,991
Speaker 2: I don't keep going.

681
00:31:40,111 --> 00:31:40,911
Speaker 1: I don't have that plan.

682
00:31:41,031 --> 00:31:42,231
Speaker 2: I just do what I love to do.

683
00:31:42,311 --> 00:31:46,351
Speaker 3: I try and challenge myself, and you know, if someone

684
00:31:46,391 --> 00:31:48,631
Speaker 3: says that I'm stupid, I try and prove them wrong,

685
00:31:48,671 --> 00:31:52,831
Speaker 3: which is probably why I ended up very successful academically,

686
00:31:54,111 --> 00:31:57,111
Speaker 3: you know. But now I'm in my thirties and I'm

687
00:31:57,111 --> 00:31:59,871
Speaker 3: moving out of that and I'm comfortable. You know, I've

688
00:31:59,911 --> 00:32:02,311
Speaker 3: proven to myself that I can get these really good

689
00:32:02,391 --> 00:32:04,751
Speaker 3: jobs and go and do all these really deadly things.

690
00:32:04,791 --> 00:32:07,231
Speaker 3: And now I just want to work with mob again

691
00:32:07,271 --> 00:32:10,591
Speaker 3: and young people again and be like, it's hard work,

692
00:32:10,671 --> 00:32:14,071
Speaker 3: but it's fulfilling work, and there's heaps of jobs out

693
00:32:14,071 --> 00:32:15,871
Speaker 3: there in the arts. It's a really good space for

694
00:32:15,911 --> 00:32:19,871
Speaker 3: you to work on yourself and your community as well,

695
00:32:19,951 --> 00:32:22,751
Speaker 3: because you have to. When you're working in arts, you're

696
00:32:22,751 --> 00:32:25,631
Speaker 3: not doing a skilled job for hire. You're talking about

697
00:32:25,671 --> 00:32:28,991
Speaker 3: something that belongs to you, your identity, and you belong

698
00:32:29,031 --> 00:32:31,151
Speaker 3: to that community as well. So it can also be

699
00:32:31,231 --> 00:32:34,951
Speaker 3: really fulfilling moralistically for yourself.

700
00:32:35,751 --> 00:32:39,231
Speaker 1: Getting people to reconnect if they're not connected to community.

701
00:32:39,311 --> 00:32:42,311
Speaker 1: That's probably a good way to wrap up the art

702
00:32:42,391 --> 00:32:44,151
Speaker 1: because a lot of our mob, especially that come to

703
00:32:44,151 --> 00:32:46,431
Speaker 1: the big cities, a lot of them don't come with

704
00:32:46,591 --> 00:32:49,591
Speaker 1: much family or something and they've got to start from scratch.

705
00:32:50,151 --> 00:32:52,111
Speaker 1: So I hope that some of the people that are

706
00:32:52,111 --> 00:32:56,911
Speaker 1: listening are inspired about what you've been doing and all

707
00:32:56,951 --> 00:32:58,951
Speaker 1: the things you've achieved. And you're only in your thirties.

708
00:32:58,991 --> 00:33:04,431
Speaker 1: I'm like far but I don't get to many people

709
00:33:04,511 --> 00:33:06,871
Speaker 1: here that are in Sydney that are doing the things

710
00:33:06,871 --> 00:33:09,831
Speaker 1: that you've done. And I think listeners are probably thinking, wow,

711
00:33:09,871 --> 00:33:11,871
Speaker 1: where have you been? How do we connect? So do

712
00:33:11,911 --> 00:33:14,631
Speaker 1: you have a website? How do people reach out to

713
00:33:14,631 --> 00:33:15,471
Speaker 1: you on your socials?

714
00:33:15,551 --> 00:33:17,351
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can jump on my Instagram.

715
00:33:17,391 --> 00:33:22,511
Speaker 3: It's bou which means some associ in Lalarakia language or

716
00:33:22,591 --> 00:33:24,311
Speaker 3: old people it means something else.

717
00:33:24,431 --> 00:33:26,831
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you spell it?

718
00:33:26,991 --> 00:33:28,911
Speaker 2: B d ju?

719
00:33:29,631 --> 00:33:29,991
Speaker 1: Would you?

720
00:33:30,151 --> 00:33:30,791
Speaker 2: Yeah?

721
00:33:31,111 --> 00:33:33,631
Speaker 1: You know you know what budgiegen is.

722
00:33:34,831 --> 00:33:40,191
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's all purpose. When you went in.

723
00:33:40,071 --> 00:33:43,991
Speaker 1: Brisbane right when you're Bourdill your ship, yeah, damn it.

724
00:33:44,551 --> 00:33:46,351
Speaker 1: So where people going, hey are you Budell? When I

725
00:33:46,431 --> 00:33:48,551
Speaker 1: was like under the Murray School leaving Redford, I'm like,

726
00:33:48,551 --> 00:33:50,791
Speaker 1: am I bud What do you mean? Am I bouder?

727
00:33:51,511 --> 00:33:53,071
Speaker 2: So there was this is going to make you laugh?

728
00:33:53,151 --> 00:33:57,831
Speaker 3: So means vagina in Larakia from old ways, yes, and

729
00:33:57,871 --> 00:34:01,591
Speaker 3: then it was appropriated by heaps of black queer mob

730
00:34:01,951 --> 00:34:04,631
Speaker 3: to mean sexy. So lots of like queer black men

731
00:34:04,671 --> 00:34:07,231
Speaker 3: are like, are you look Boudio And it became really

732
00:34:07,271 --> 00:34:09,431
Speaker 3: popular and I was like, stuff you mob, I'm the

733
00:34:09,471 --> 00:34:13,831
Speaker 3: original Boudio. I'm a lesbian and I'm Larakia I love So.

734
00:34:13,911 --> 00:34:18,151
Speaker 1: That's my tag, that's your Instagram. Yeah easy, Well we've

735
00:34:18,151 --> 00:34:21,071
Speaker 1: got to connect and then hopefully how long is the show?

736
00:34:21,071 --> 00:34:22,351
Speaker 1: And banks aren't going to go for I was.

737
00:34:22,351 --> 00:34:23,871
Speaker 3: Going into the next year and we've got biggest, more

738
00:34:23,911 --> 00:34:26,191
Speaker 3: programs and stuff over summer, so have a look on

739
00:34:26,271 --> 00:34:29,551
Speaker 3: that website. We've got like Salvage doing DJing and he's

740
00:34:29,871 --> 00:34:32,031
Speaker 3: curating like a whole day's worth of events, which is

741
00:34:32,031 --> 00:34:32,991
Speaker 3: his first time doing it.

742
00:34:33,071 --> 00:34:34,351
Speaker 2: So come and support him.

743
00:34:34,431 --> 00:34:36,991
Speaker 1: Yes, I think it's important to support communities. So on

744
00:34:37,071 --> 00:34:38,991
Speaker 1: that note, thanks for coming all the way over the

745
00:34:39,031 --> 00:34:42,551
Speaker 1: other side of the harbor the city to have a

746
00:34:42,631 --> 00:34:47,311
Speaker 1: yarn with me. It's if we don't get many young

747
00:34:47,471 --> 00:34:54,631
Speaker 1: deadly black women and I've the queer conversation for young

748
00:34:54,671 --> 00:34:57,711
Speaker 1: black fellows that are navigating their identity. That was one

749
00:34:57,711 --> 00:35:00,111
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to ask you really quickly. Yeah, I

750
00:35:00,151 --> 00:35:01,911
Speaker 1: had Felicia.

751
00:35:01,471 --> 00:35:03,991
Speaker 2: Fox, Yes, Deadly Felicia.

752
00:35:03,991 --> 00:35:07,911
Speaker 1: And that was one of the best performing that rated

753
00:35:08,071 --> 00:35:10,071
Speaker 1: and episodes and downloads. One of the best out of

754
00:35:10,071 --> 00:35:14,351
Speaker 1: about one hundred and thirty episodes was full and I thought, oh,

755
00:35:14,431 --> 00:35:18,751
Speaker 1: can I drop this yarm? I can't censor the yarm

756
00:35:18,991 --> 00:35:24,031
Speaker 1: because I'm asking people to just be themselves and feel comfortable.

757
00:35:24,111 --> 00:35:26,751
Speaker 1: And next minute, I was thinking, how's the audience, my audien,

758
00:35:26,751 --> 00:35:29,991
Speaker 1: It's gonna respond. When I dropped that episode, I was

759
00:35:30,031 --> 00:35:33,231
Speaker 1: worried and it was one of the best yarns in

760
00:35:33,271 --> 00:35:35,911
Speaker 1: the last four years. So I know that we've got

761
00:35:35,911 --> 00:35:38,911
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are probably big supporters of

762
00:35:38,991 --> 00:35:42,511
Speaker 1: our mob and also queer mob. Is there any advice?

763
00:35:42,551 --> 00:35:45,031
Speaker 1: What would you share with any of our young mob

764
00:35:45,111 --> 00:35:47,231
Speaker 1: that trying to navigate their identity.

765
00:35:48,031 --> 00:35:50,671
Speaker 3: Go gently on yourself. I think there's a lot of

766
00:35:50,711 --> 00:35:55,031
Speaker 3: expectation about you know, looks and you know who you

767
00:35:55,031 --> 00:35:56,671
Speaker 3: should hang out with, what you should wear, what you

768
00:35:56,671 --> 00:36:00,231
Speaker 3: should listen to. My wife sits and crowchets every night,

769
00:36:00,391 --> 00:36:04,311
Speaker 3: and I have an aqu escaping hobby, but I do

770
00:36:04,351 --> 00:36:05,391
Speaker 3: all this deadly stuff.

771
00:36:05,631 --> 00:36:07,871
Speaker 2: I think it's about really understanding.

772
00:36:07,511 --> 00:36:12,591
Speaker 3: Yourself and allowing yourself to go through those chapters of reinvention.

773
00:36:13,191 --> 00:36:15,071
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not going to go back to wearing

774
00:36:15,871 --> 00:36:18,911
Speaker 3: tied die shirts with a mohawk anytime soon, but I

775
00:36:18,951 --> 00:36:21,831
Speaker 3: needed to go through that. It's okay to change and

776
00:36:21,911 --> 00:36:25,151
Speaker 3: find the people that support you in that change is

777
00:36:25,191 --> 00:36:27,031
Speaker 3: the most important thing, because a lot of people are

778
00:36:27,031 --> 00:36:28,951
Speaker 3: going to feel very uncomfortable that you're changing.

779
00:36:29,231 --> 00:36:32,311
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Well, that's a deadly way to

780
00:36:32,311 --> 00:36:35,151
Speaker 1: wrap up the yard. Thank you, Thank you so much

781
00:36:35,151 --> 00:36:37,591
Speaker 1: for coming and having a Yarm. I'll see it Garma

782
00:36:37,631 --> 00:36:42,751
Speaker 1: next year. Oh got we got on the Gama. Yes. Look,

783
00:36:42,871 --> 00:36:45,311
Speaker 1: all you mob that have been listening. I hope you've

784
00:36:45,391 --> 00:36:49,031
Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode. Until next start by for now. If

785
00:36:49,071 --> 00:36:52,511
Speaker 1: you'd like any more on today's guest, please visit our

786
00:36:52,551 --> 00:36:57,391
Speaker 1: show notes in the episode description. A big shout out

787
00:36:57,431 --> 00:37:00,911
Speaker 1: to all you Deadly Mob and allies who continue to listen, watch,

788
00:37:00,991 --> 00:37:04,991
Speaker 1: and support our podcast. Your feedback means the world. You

789
00:37:05,071 --> 00:37:08,231
Speaker 1: can rate and review the podcast on Apple and Spotify,

790
00:37:08,431 --> 00:37:11,311
Speaker 1: or even head to our socials and YouTube channel and

791
00:37:11,391 --> 00:37:13,431
Speaker 1: drop us a line. We'd love to hear from you.

792
00:37:14,151 --> 00:37:20,071
Speaker 1: The Black Magic Woman podcast is produced by Clint Curtis