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Speaker 1: And joining me on the line.

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Speaker 2: Well, we do know that the Northern Territory Police Association

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Speaker 2: yesterday issued a statement saying that they're aware of this

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Speaker 2: video by Deputy small Page, which has been circulated on

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Speaker 2: social media. The associations say whilst the matter appears accidental,

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Speaker 2: the reputation of the police force and its members is

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Speaker 2: of paramount concern and they've immediately called on the Police

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Speaker 2: Commissioner to commence an investigation into how the video was

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Speaker 2: posted and what action he intends to take given the

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Speaker 2: reputational damage to the police force following the keyless release

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Speaker 2: of this video. Now the President, Paul Mchue joins me

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Speaker 2: on the line right now, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Paul, Morning Katie.

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Speaker 4: Here're you going?

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Speaker 1: Not too bad?

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Speaker 2: Paul?

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Speaker 1: Is an apology good enough in this situation?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, obviously to give some context to it all,

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Speaker 3: I guess, you know, And obviously there are people out there,

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Speaker 3: you know, making up their own conclusions about what that

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Speaker 3: comment was all about. And you know, this is certainly

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Speaker 3: not a dig of the senior executive. This is certainly

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Speaker 3: about fairness. This is about making sure the processes that

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Speaker 3: are in place for all our members. That is all

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Speaker 3: ranks are appropriately followed. And now, of course I miss

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Speaker 3: the smallpage certainly did issue an apology, there's no question

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Speaker 3: about that.

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Speaker 4: It was quite clear the video was.

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Speaker 3: Accidentally recorded, but how it ended up on social media

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Speaker 3: is a concern. And obviously in the context of that,

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Speaker 3: what's that perception to the public and of course other

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Speaker 3: members similarly circumstances are put through a fairly strict discipline

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Speaker 3: process when these sorts of things happen, and this is

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Speaker 3: about making sure everybody at all ranks is accountable to

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Speaker 3: the Code of conduct, and that's all we're asking.

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Speaker 2: Has there been a similar situation before where somebody has

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Speaker 2: accidentally posted something on social media like this?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, social media is a beast, as we know, and

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Speaker 3: of course you know our members are often subjected to

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Speaker 3: extensive investigations for their body worn video for example, or

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Speaker 3: whether it be private messaging that suddenly doesn't become pri

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Speaker 3: than then they're subjected to an extensive internal discipline process

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Speaker 3: which is very stressful and obviously time consuming for that individual.

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Speaker 3: They don't will then never afford the opportunity, of course

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Speaker 3: to distinmply put out an apology, and so that was

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Speaker 3: a mistake. We all make mistakes, but it's all about

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Speaker 3: I guess, ensuring fairness and ensuring the same process as

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Speaker 3: apply across the board. Again, the comments for the comment,

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Speaker 3: and unless you're in that room, you cannot possibly understand

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Speaker 3: what the context was. But what we have to be

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Speaker 3: careful of, of course, is the perception and under our

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Speaker 3: Code of conduct, it applies to all ranks, and it's

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Speaker 3: about being open and transparent, and it's about making sure

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Speaker 3: that there's no discredit or adverse effect to the police force.

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Speaker 4: When these things get leaked, and we need to know

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Speaker 4: why it happened.

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Speaker 2: Now, you said in a statement that your office has

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Speaker 2: been inundated with complaints regarding the video, and we yet

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Speaker 2: to hear what the police Commissioner is going to determine

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Speaker 2: should happen. Now, I don't expect you to identify anybody,

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Speaker 2: but what can play have come in and what have

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Speaker 2: those officers been saying to you.

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Speaker 3: Look, it's obviously primarily from a lot of officers who

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Speaker 3: are disgruntled. They've been through a discipline process themselves at

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Speaker 3: times or they currently are. And I think what we've

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Speaker 3: got to appreciate is and people probably don't quite understand

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Speaker 3: the strain and the stress of the current discipline process

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Speaker 3: that have put on our members. It is very very

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Speaker 3: stressful for them and their families, and so when they

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Speaker 3: are put through a process, and I can assure you

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Speaker 3: if I guess a member of the police force, if

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Speaker 3: that had happened to a senior constable or a sergeant,

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Speaker 3: perhaps they would probably be fronting professional standards right now

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Speaker 3: to say, how did that happen? And we're going to

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Speaker 3: commence an investigation. So that's the context to it, and

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Speaker 3: that's why, you know, people got to appreciate we're not

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Speaker 3: sitting here trying to have a dig at the Deputy commissioner.

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Speaker 4: This is about a mistake.

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Speaker 3: This is a mistake that's become public through social media

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Speaker 3: and as a result of that, there's a lot of

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Speaker 3: adverse comments about police on there, and that is what

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Speaker 3: we have to try and reduce and understand why it happened,

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Speaker 3: how it happened, and that doesn't happen again, and doesn't

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Speaker 3: matter what rank you are.

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Speaker 2: Now, we just received a message from someone who says

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Speaker 2: that they're a serving member saying that the officer, this

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Speaker 2: officer sax and hunts people for the most minor of

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Speaker 2: things and wonders if he'll be served a seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you know what that means.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, obviously they're talking there about an internal discipline process. Now,

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Speaker 3: what we've got to appreciate here is unless sure, at

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Speaker 3: the rank of superintendent all below, you're actually a contract

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Speaker 3: officer and you have a different employment conditions, so to speak,

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Speaker 3: to the remainder of the police force. So it really

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Speaker 3: depends on what's in those contracts. But of course, what

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Speaker 3: I've said is the Code of Conduct and any I

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Speaker 3: guess adverse effects as a result of matters under that

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Speaker 3: Code of conduct do apply to all ranks, So it

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Speaker 3: doesn't really matter in terms of the actual internal discipline process.

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Speaker 3: This is about the code of conduct. This is about

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Speaker 3: making sure there is no reputation harm to the police force,

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Speaker 3: and as we've seen, it's likely there has been as

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Speaker 3: a result of that footage getting out.

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Speaker 4: So all we're.

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Speaker 3: Simply asking, and we've made it quite clear, is an

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Speaker 3: investigation to happen, How did it happen, and what action

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Speaker 3: the Commissioner intends to take, if any, as.

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Speaker 4: A result of that investigation. That's all we're asking.

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Speaker 2: And Paul, it sounds as though you know, the main

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Speaker 2: reason why the association wants this to happen is because

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Speaker 2: that is what would be expected of officers of a

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Speaker 2: lower rank.

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Speaker 3: Correct, That's exactly what would happen and be expected of

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Speaker 3: members of the lower rank. We've seen it happen in

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Speaker 3: the past, will happen in the future. As I've said,

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Speaker 3: they don't necessarily get the opportunity to put out a

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Speaker 3: broadcasters to apologize, and we appreciate the intent behind that,

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Speaker 3: but members of the lower rank do not have that opportunity,

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Speaker 3: and I think this is just about fairness to them,

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Speaker 3: given they are subject to the similar discipline process as

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Speaker 3: we've discussed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I actually think that you know, when you've

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Speaker 2: put it to us that way, it makes that seem

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Speaker 2: fair enough. Because for me, when I first saw it,

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Speaker 2: I thought, oh, I wonder if this is a bit

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Speaker 2: of a storm in a teacup. But then when you

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Speaker 2: actually talk about the rank and file and you say, well,

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Speaker 2: if they were in a similar situation, they would have

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Speaker 2: to go through you know, this process, it does make

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Speaker 2: you think, well, you know, what's fair for some has

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Speaker 2: to be fair for others, particularly when you're talking about

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Speaker 2: a police force where you want people to feel that

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Speaker 2: same level of respect that everybody's got to go through

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Speaker 2: the same processes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that you know, we're all police officers,

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Speaker 3: are all on the one team, and I think you

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Speaker 3: know it isn't. I mean, it's quite clear in the

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Speaker 3: video it was an accidental recording and obviously, as I said,

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Speaker 3: unless you were there, you don't really understand the context

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Speaker 3: of what was said. But the fact that it's been

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Speaker 3: made its way to social media.

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Speaker 4: Is the problem.

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Speaker 3: And that's often the case with some of our other members,

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Speaker 3: and of course at that point they're put through a

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Speaker 3: process to investigate why and of course any harm that

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Speaker 3: may come to the police force, and.

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Speaker 4: It's all asking. It's just about fairness, that's it.

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Speaker 3: Paul.

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Speaker 1: Have you spoken to the Deputy commissioner at all?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I certainly have you spoke with mister small Page

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Speaker 3: yesterday of expressed our concerns, obviously, made it clear to

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Speaker 3: him that we have had a lot of complaints in

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Speaker 3: relation to it, and tried to explain that obviously this

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Speaker 3: is just about having an equal playing field for all ranks,

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Speaker 3: if you like, and you know he understood our point

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Speaker 3: of view, but of course, you know, Obviously he's going

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Speaker 3: to be people feeling we're having a specific dig at him.

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Speaker 4: This is not about that.

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Speaker 3: This is about making sure all members of the police

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Speaker 3: force have confidence that when matters like this take place,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't matter what rank you are, you are accountable.

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Speaker 3: And that's all we're asking. When I'm asking for anything

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Speaker 3: more than that, well, I.

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Speaker 2: Do just want to ask you while I've got you

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Speaker 2: on the line. You and I had discussed about a

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Speaker 2: week or so ago about the Police Association survey that

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Speaker 2: had been conducted ahead of the annual conference.

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Speaker 1: How did you go with that conference? Did you?

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Speaker 2: You know, obviously you put those survey results forward to

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Speaker 2: the Minister for Police and also to the Commissioner and everybody.

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Speaker 1: What was the reaction.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, obviously there was some statistics there. We had

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Speaker 3: over five hundred and thirty respondents to our survey and

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Speaker 3: it was an excellent response rate. There was some concerning

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Speaker 3: statistics in there, which we obviously went through with the

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Speaker 3: Commissioner and the Minister, and obviously we'll be putting out

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Speaker 3: something further this week in relation to the results of

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Speaker 3: that survey. Obviously, some of the key points of that, Katie,

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Speaker 3: are around the number of seventy seven percent of people

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Speaker 3: in our job believe there's not enough police. We've got

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Speaker 3: eighty eight percent concerned with our attrition rates. We've had

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Speaker 3: eighty percent increase in duty since COVID and the same

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Speaker 3: figure having leave cancer will deferred. And of course what

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Speaker 3: we're seeing as a police force that is very tired,

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Speaker 3: it's very fatigued and a very under resourced at the moment,

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Speaker 3: and so there matters that we're taking up with the

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Speaker 3: Minister and the Commissioner this week.

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Speaker 1: How would you say the morale is of the force

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Speaker 1: at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the survey showed sixty four percent state of morales

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Speaker 3: very low or low. Now, that can obviously on the day,

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Speaker 3: of course, but I think it reflects at the moment

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Speaker 3: that you know, with COVID and with leave canceled and

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Speaker 3: with the struggling to make ends meet on the front line,

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Speaker 3: it's pretty tough out there for our police right now.

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Speaker 3: So we don't need adverse publicity, we don't need this

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Speaker 3: sort of nonsense coming out into the social media space.

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Speaker 3: Police are doing it tough, they're doing a great job,

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Speaker 3: and let's not forget. On the twenty ninth of this month,

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Speaker 3: we've got Police Remembrance Day and that's when we're going

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Speaker 3: to stand and remember the hard work police do and

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Speaker 3: of course those that sadly lost their life in the

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Speaker 3: line of duty, and that's what we've got to remember,

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Speaker 3: the great work that police do and sometimes sadly they

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Speaker 3: don't come home from that.

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Speaker 1: You spot on, Paul.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think that we all agree that the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police do a phenomenal job under what are

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Speaker 2: quite difficult circumstances at different times, particularly through COVID and

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Speaker 2: those roles changing and those responsibilities changing. What did the

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Speaker 2: Association make of the government's announcement last week about that

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Speaker 2: plan forward when it comes to COVID, because presumably it

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Speaker 2: is go I mean that the responsibility of our police

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Speaker 2: force does increase to some degree or it's going to

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Speaker 2: continue to be at a greater level with police on boarders,

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Speaker 2: police conducting those compliance checks and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it certainly does, and I know the Commissioner publicly

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Speaker 3: acknowledge that it will impact police resourcing.

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Speaker 4: There's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 3: And you know, whilst the announcement is not unexpected from

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Speaker 3: our perspective, it certainly will have an impact on police resourcing,

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Speaker 3: which as I've said, is already at stretching points. So

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Speaker 3: obviously we're keen for the government to say we acknowledge that,

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Speaker 3: and we will obviously recruit additional personnel to cover off

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Speaker 3: on those requirements if indeed it is a police requirement

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Speaker 3: to do so under that new announcement.

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Speaker 2: Well, and then we also obviously spoke to the Commissioner

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Speaker 2: last week who he said that he is looking at

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Speaker 2: the legalities and those options in terms of making the

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Speaker 2: vaccine mandatory. Is that something that anybody or any of

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Speaker 2: the rank and file of rais with you, Yeah, it

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Speaker 2: certainly is.

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Speaker 3: Obviously the Commissioner has approached us in relation to mandatory

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Speaker 3: mask wearing in the event you aren't vaccinated. And of

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Speaker 3: course now with the announcement from the Chief Minister and

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Speaker 3: the Commissioner and mandatory vaccinations, we will be taking a

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Speaker 3: lead approach in this. We have from day one in

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Speaker 3: terms of making sure our members are safe, and obviously

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Speaker 3: with mandatory vaccinations, that will the devil will be in

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Speaker 3: the detail as to what that looks like. But of

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Speaker 3: course we support people being vaccinated, but we also support

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Speaker 3: the fact that there may be some people who cannot

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Speaker 3: be vaccinated and we will obviously take those on a

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Speaker 3: case by case basis.

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Speaker 2: Well Police Association President Paul McHugh, I always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much for having a chat with us

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Speaker 1: this morning.

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Speaker 4: All right, thanks Katie, thank you,