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Speaker 1: We were talking a little earlier in the week. We

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Speaker 1: know that that there has been quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: talk over you know, I think it'd say, over a

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Speaker 1: period of time around our electricity and what we need

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Speaker 1: as we go towards renewables in the coming years, and

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Speaker 1: the government really has received a pretty strong warning that

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Speaker 1: it does need to manage the risks and the costs

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Speaker 1: associated with the transition to renewable electricity generation. The Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory Utilities Commission the twenty twenty Electricity Outlook Report. It

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Speaker 1: was released earlier this week and it does say that

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Speaker 1: there are risks for the government that they need to

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Speaker 1: address in terms of the transition going to fifty percent

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Speaker 1: renewables by twenty thirty and the cost of doing so.

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Speaker 1: Now joining us on the line right now is the

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Speaker 1: Shadow Minister for Renewables and Energy as well as a

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Speaker 1: Member for Braitling, Josh Burgoing. Good morning to you, Josh.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Katie, Good morning listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Josha, I know that you know that the discussion

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Speaker 1: about going fifty percent renewal by twenty twenty, that target,

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Speaker 1: it's something that a lot of Territorians do want to see,

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Speaker 1: but the cost of getting there is looking like it

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Speaker 1: could potentially be more than what we'd initially anticipated, or

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Speaker 1: maybe what the government anticipated. The Anti Utilities Commission has

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Speaker 1: released their most recent Electricity Outlook report, Josh, from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: what is it saying?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, Katie, I've certainly been reading through the report myself,

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Speaker 2: and I mean the Utilities Commission is forecasting at twenty

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Speaker 2: three percent renewables as a proportion of electricity consumption the

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Speaker 2: Dalen Catherine system by sort of that twenty thirty seek time,

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Speaker 2: and then Other Springs is only going to be around fourteenth.

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Speaker 2: And now that's what the Utilities Commission is forecasting, and

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Speaker 2: that's what they've written, and obviously that falls well short

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Speaker 2: about fifty percent.

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Speaker 1: So what they're saying, or what the Utilities Commission is saying,

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Speaker 1: is we're not going to get there as fast as

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Speaker 1: what the government's hoping.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and it's going to cost us a lot

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Speaker 2: of money to get there. I think it's important and

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Speaker 2: we continue ours is questions. We've just had estimates down

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Speaker 2: here in Other Springs. We effectively have two power stations running,

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Speaker 2: one that should be able to cater for the load

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Speaker 2: that we experience here in our springs and another one

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Speaker 2: that we're essentially running as a backup because the government

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Speaker 2: are so worried that if there's another system black it'll

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Speaker 2: mean a lot of negative press for them. So I

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Speaker 2: asked that during estimates, we know that the Owen Springs

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Speaker 2: facility down here has more than enough capacity to run

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Speaker 2: our springs. So then we're running the Rong Good and

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Speaker 2: Power station at the cost of about ten million bucks

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Speaker 2: a year purely as a backup. And whenever I ask

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Speaker 2: these questions, I always say, well, why are we doing this?

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Speaker 2: And it's you know, they based on it's all about

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Speaker 2: making sure that we have systems, the stability and we

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Speaker 2: don't want the lights to go out. But the numbers,

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Speaker 2: the numbers clear are is that you know, we should

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Speaker 2: be able to run our springs off Owen Springs, but

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Speaker 2: unfortunately we can't. And when we look up in Dalen

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Speaker 2: and Catherine and what's happening up at Channel Island, and

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Speaker 2: obviously there are a lot of generators up there that

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Speaker 2: are set to be retired. The Utilities Commission just outlined

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Speaker 2: the fact that there is a lot of money that

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Speaker 2: is going to need to be spent in the near

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Speaker 2: future and it's all about how we manage that and

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Speaker 2: there where we go to into the future really.

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Speaker 1: And that's a big question, you know, how do we

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Speaker 1: manage it? Because I know that obviously the government have

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Speaker 1: said that they do want to get to fifty percent

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Speaker 1: renewables by twenty thirty. Correct me if I'm wrong, But

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Speaker 1: my understanding was that the CLP also had that same

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Speaker 1: policy at the last election. So I mean, how are

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Speaker 1: we going to get there? Because by twenty thirty, you know,

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Speaker 1: the likelihood is that we may still have the same government.

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Speaker 1: It may change, but everybody's made the same promise that

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Speaker 1: we're going to get there.

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Speaker 2: I think it's about how we manage this going forward, Katy.

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Speaker 2: And something that never actually gets asked is the fact

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Speaker 2: that the Labor government have got a current policy in

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Speaker 2: place saying that their own territory generation cannot invest in

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Speaker 2: large scale solar. They want to encourage private investment. Now,

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Speaker 2: if it's good enough for private investment, and if they

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Speaker 2: can make money, why isn't our own territory generation to

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Speaker 2: invest in large scale solo? These are questions that are

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Speaker 2: never really asked. And I remember last year in December

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Speaker 2: I asked and that question now it's not Enhandserre, but

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Speaker 2: I do remember saying that's not our policy, is it?

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Speaker 2: And I'd love to get her her comment on regards

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Speaker 2: to how she feels about the fact that Territory Generation

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Speaker 2: currently cannot invest in that large scale solar. So you know,

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Speaker 2: they're there supposedly just to provide the baseload with gas

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Speaker 2: power generation. We're moving forward, we're essentially going to be

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Speaker 2: buying our electricity off private people that provide it to

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Speaker 2: us through solar. Well, we can never find out how

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Speaker 2: much we're going to be paying for that because they're

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Speaker 2: all commercial and confidence, you know, contracts. So there's so much,

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Speaker 2: Katie that's unknown in this space. And I can tell

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Speaker 2: you I pulled my hair out when I asked all

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Speaker 2: these questions and they say, oh, that's commercially confidence, that's

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Speaker 2: commercial and confidence. We just want to know, as territoriums,

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Speaker 2: how are we going to get to this fifty percent figure?

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Speaker 2: And how much is going to cost us to get there, because,

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Speaker 2: like you said earlier, a lot of people that understand

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Speaker 2: we need to be moving towards this direction, but how

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Speaker 2: much is it going to cost us? And when are

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Speaker 2: we going to get there?

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Speaker 1: Well? Am I understanding as well, and you know, you

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Speaker 1: may well have spoken to some of those, you know,

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Speaker 1: those private investors that are working in this space, but

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Speaker 1: my understanding as well is that there has been some

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Speaker 1: of this work done when it comes to solar farms

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Speaker 1: and generating that solar power, but they've not been able

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Speaker 1: to switch on to the greed at this point because

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Speaker 1: there's not the capacity or the redundancy to do so.

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Speaker 2: And there's also that the goalposts have changed. So for

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Speaker 2: some people in this market that basically spent the money

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Speaker 2: invested into producing the solar as they're about to come

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Speaker 2: onto the power grid, they've now got these new generator standards,

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Speaker 2: so they then have to provide batteries so that obviously

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Speaker 2: there aren't these huge peaks and troughs when a cloud

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Speaker 2: comes over, when other things happen, so that we do

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Speaker 2: have this grid stability. So it's very difficult space when

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Speaker 2: you're a private investment, when you're a business trying to

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Speaker 2: provide this, and the goalpost do continue to move, which is,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's a very interesting space moving forward. K

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Speaker 2: And that's why, obviously when we read reports like the

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Speaker 2: Utilities Commission report that are pointing out the gun of

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Speaker 2: government shortcomings. We really do worry about where we're heading.

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Speaker 1: Well, Josh Burgoyne, we are going to have to leave

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Speaker 1: it there. I think it's one of those topics that

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Speaker 1: will continue to bubble along and one which will stay

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Speaker 1: on to Thanks so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Kate, thank you.

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Speaker 1: That's the shadow Minister there for Renewables into Energy and

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Speaker 1: the Member for Brakling, Josh Burgoyne,