WEBVTT - Why is the Labor Party fighting?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the thirteenth of May. I'm Zara Seidler.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Billy fitz Simon's.

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<v Speaker 2>Yesterday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi announced his cabinet for the

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<v Speaker 2>next term of parliament. It followed a week of very

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<v Speaker 2>public infighting in the Labor Party about who should be

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<v Speaker 2>elevated to the cabinet. In today's podcast, we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>explain the concept of factions and the role that factions

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<v Speaker 2>have played in discussions about who should be promoted in

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<v Speaker 2>the Labor Party.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Sara, yesterday Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi unveiled his cabinet.

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<v Speaker 1>But that came after a week of headlines about infighting

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<v Speaker 1>in Labor, which I think that many people would have

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<v Speaker 1>been surprised by, you know, because they had such a

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<v Speaker 1>signialificant when you would have thought that there would be

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of unity amongst the party, but that is

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<v Speaker 1>not what we saw. No, So this all surrounds the cabinet.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we should maybe just first explain what actually

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<v Speaker 1>is the cabinet.

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<v Speaker 2>Good starting point, So the cabinet is basically just the

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<v Speaker 2>main decision making body of the government. That's just a

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<v Speaker 2>good way to think about it. If you're thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>a business, it's like the c suite, the upper executive,

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<v Speaker 2>and so it's made up of ministers who have responsibility

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<v Speaker 2>for areas of government policy. So think things like health

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<v Speaker 2>or defense or education. Ministers work with relevant government departments

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<v Speaker 2>to oversee the government's work in that area, and they

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<v Speaker 2>basically just design new policies, the policies that we talk

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<v Speaker 2>about and the policies that the government then chooses to implement.

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<v Speaker 2>One thing that I think you were the person that

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<v Speaker 2>became very passionate in the office about this to remember

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<v Speaker 2>is that for someone to become a minister, you don't

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<v Speaker 2>actually have to have worked in the field at all.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think made a video about this, But basically

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<v Speaker 2>to become a minister and to serve in cabinet, say

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<v Speaker 2>as the Health minister, you don't have to have worked

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<v Speaker 2>as a doctor, don't have to have a medical degree,

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<v Speaker 2>same as truth for education, don't need to be a teacher.

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<v Speaker 3>Thought that was a little fun factor.

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<v Speaker 1>That interesting something I think about once a week. The

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<v Speaker 1>fact that you're yes to be the Treasurer. You don't

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<v Speaker 1>need to have an economics degree.

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<v Speaker 3>No, though he does, our treasurer does.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a bonus and I think important to note

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<v Speaker 2>here the reason why that is the case is that

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<v Speaker 2>often these ministers are supported by a full department that's

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<v Speaker 2>made up of experts, of public servant experts who are

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<v Speaker 2>working on.

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<v Speaker 3>These policies day in, day out.

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<v Speaker 2>But basically what we're talking about today is that cabinet

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<v Speaker 2>and the ministers make up the cabinet.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>And so since Labor won the election, Prime Minister Anthony

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<v Speaker 1>Alberizi has been deciding who will be in his cabinet. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>my understanding is that it is pretty much the Prime

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<v Speaker 1>Minister's decision alone. So why has it become so contentious?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it is in some parts his decision. But

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<v Speaker 2>I think to understand the Labor Party, especially, but mostly

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<v Speaker 2>political parties here in Australia, you need to understand factions

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<v Speaker 2>because factions are arguably the most powerful thing that exists,

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<v Speaker 2>especially in the Labor Party.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so what is a faction?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm going to be really annoying and answer that

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<v Speaker 3>with an analogy.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I think love an analogy. It's the best way

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<v Speaker 2>for me to think about it. So, Billy, you like

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<v Speaker 2>to party or go to party a partygoer. When you

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<v Speaker 2>go to a party, do you ever notice that there

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<v Speaker 2>are like lots of small groups of people having separate discussions.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, particularly at extended family gatherings, Like I'm just with

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<v Speaker 1>my cousins.

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<v Speaker 3>And the cousins you really really like the cousins that

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<v Speaker 3>stand over.

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<v Speaker 1>The second cousins wants are removed, like I'm not really

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<v Speaker 1>talking to them exactly, no offense.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm sure they're lovely, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure they're listening to shout out to Billy's cousins.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's basically what a faction is. So politics, when

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<v Speaker 2>we talk about factions, we're just talking about a party

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<v Speaker 2>within a party. So they're these kind of small, ideologically

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<v Speaker 2>aligned groups who share close ties. Now important to recognize

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<v Speaker 2>that they exist at both state and federal level, and

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<v Speaker 2>they exist in both the liberal and the labor parties.

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<v Speaker 2>They tend to be really really important when a party

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<v Speaker 2>is choosing a new leader, as the factions will create

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<v Speaker 2>deals with each other. So one faction might say to

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<v Speaker 2>another faction, if you let one of us become leader,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll let you become deputy leader. But it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>at that point that they're important. Factional deals also happen

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<v Speaker 2>in the course of parliamentary business too, So one faction

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<v Speaker 2>might offer to compromise on legislation to keep the other

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<v Speaker 2>faction happy. I've said the word faction so many times

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<v Speaker 2>it's losing its meaning if they need something else down

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<v Speaker 2>the road. Basically, it's just agreeing to disagree so that

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<v Speaker 2>there is a deal in place. Factions are basically formed

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<v Speaker 2>around political interests, and that's a good way to think

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<v Speaker 2>about them.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so both the Liberal Party and the Labor Party

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<v Speaker 1>you have factions. Yeah, but today we're talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>Labor factions because those other factions that have been at

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<v Speaker 1>the center of all of these headlines over the past week.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the Labor Party's factions are much more clear

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<v Speaker 2>and i'd say hold a lot more weight than the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal parties do. So in the Labor Party there are

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<v Speaker 2>two main factions. There's the left and the right.

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<v Speaker 3>And we have.

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<v Speaker 2>Dedicated a whole podcast to explaining the left and the right,

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<v Speaker 2>and the same is true when we talk about these factions.

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<v Speaker 2>So the left is like a progressive faction, the right

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<v Speaker 2>is a more conservative faction. Anthony Albanzi is a member

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<v Speaker 2>of the Labor Left, and Richard Miles, who's the deputy

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<v Speaker 2>Prime Minister, he is part of Labor Right. And so

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<v Speaker 2>the reason that we have seen so many headlines about

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<v Speaker 2>factions lately is because after Anthony Alberzi became or was

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<v Speaker 2>re elected as Prime minister, he was tasked with building

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<v Speaker 2>his new cabinet and he had to fill some roles

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<v Speaker 2>that have been made vacant because Bill Shorten, who was

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<v Speaker 2>the ndis minister, he was from Labor Right, he resigned

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<v Speaker 2>and stepped back from politics. And Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones,

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<v Speaker 2>who was from Labor Left, he also retired. So basically

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<v Speaker 2>there were these two roles that were open for competition,

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<v Speaker 2>and the factions were fighting about who those replacements should be.

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<v Speaker 1>Can I just ask one question. Those roles are vacant

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<v Speaker 1>and so they have to fill them. But the whole

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<v Speaker 1>conversation has been actually about an entire reshuffle, So it's

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<v Speaker 1>not just about making sure that those two roles are filled,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's kind of triggered an entire reshuffle, so kind

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<v Speaker 1>of every position is up for grabs.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost yeah, because it's about numbers. It's about how many

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<v Speaker 2>people do Labor Left have in the cabinet and how

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<v Speaker 2>many people do Labor Right have and is that basically

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<v Speaker 2>proportional representation of who should be there. And So what

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<v Speaker 2>was reported last week and this kind of kicked off

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<v Speaker 2>the string of in fighting and headlines, is that two

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<v Speaker 2>cabinet ministers from the right, Attorney General Mark Dreyfus and

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<v Speaker 2>Science Minister Ed Husick, they'd been removed from the cabinet

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<v Speaker 2>for factional reasons, Zara.

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<v Speaker 1>Before we go on, let's just hear a quick word

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<v Speaker 1>from the sponsor. Okay, So we've got two people, Ed

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<v Speaker 1>Husick and Mark Dreyfus. They were in the cabinet in

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<v Speaker 1>the last term. They have now been dumped from the cabinet.

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<v Speaker 1>How have they responded to that?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, we've heard quite a lot from Ed Husick.

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<v Speaker 2>He was on ABC's Insiders, and I think it's fair

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<v Speaker 2>to say that he didn't really hold back. He called

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<v Speaker 2>Richard Miles, the Deputy Prime Minister, a quote factional assassin.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, can I just stop you because they are from

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<v Speaker 1>the same faction, right, they are from the right side

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<v Speaker 1>of the factions.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean, I don't want to complicate this even further.

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<v Speaker 2>But there are like state factions as well. So Richard

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<v Speaker 2>Miles is from the Victorian Right and Ed Husick is

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<v Speaker 2>from the New South Wales Right, not actually from the

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<v Speaker 2>same faction. They're kind of ideologically aligned, but different groupings

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<v Speaker 2>of the faction.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that a bit confusing?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 1>No, that makes sense. Okay. So Richard Miles has been

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<v Speaker 1>called a factional assassin by Ed Husick, who lost his

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<v Speaker 1>position in the cabinet.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct, he said to the ABC. I'll just quote directly here.

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<v Speaker 3>He said.

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<v Speaker 2>The difficult issue here is that we've had bare faced

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<v Speaker 2>ambition and a deputy prime minister he's talking about Richard

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<v Speaker 2>Miles there wield a factional club to reshape the ministry.

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<v Speaker 2>He went on to say, I think people when they

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<v Speaker 2>look at a deputy prime minister, they expect to see

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<v Speaker 2>a statesman, not a factional assassin. He also claims that

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<v Speaker 2>Anthony Albanesi, who like you said, can get involved and

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<v Speaker 2>make the final call about who should make up the

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<v Speaker 2>front bench, who should make up the cabinet. He said

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<v Speaker 2>that Anthony Alberanzi was asked to intervene in this factional battle,

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<v Speaker 2>but that he stayed out of it, and ed Husick

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<v Speaker 2>said that if Albanizi had exercised his authority, he would

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<v Speaker 2>have been able to create stability and a strong team.

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<v Speaker 2>And he said, no one would have quibbled about that.

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<v Speaker 2>But according to ed Husick, Anthony Albanize stepped back and

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<v Speaker 2>allowed that factional battle to kind of go ahead.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remember also reading some very strong words from

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<v Speaker 1>former Prime Minister Paul keating what.

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<v Speaker 3>Does he say?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, he's a man that often has strong words to say,

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<v Speaker 2>and again he also didn't hold back. He was criticizing

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that factional warfare was becoming more important than whoever.

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<v Speaker 3>Being the right person for the job was.

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<v Speaker 2>He said that the demotion, and especially the demotion of

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<v Speaker 2>ed Husick, he said, only serves to keep up some

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<v Speaker 2>notional proportional.

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<v Speaker 3>Count between factions.

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<v Speaker 2>In his letter, he also said that Husick is currently

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<v Speaker 2>the only Muslim MP in the inner cabinet because ann

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<v Speaker 2>Ali is in the outer cabinet and they're two different things,

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<v Speaker 2>and that Mark Dreyfuss is the most senior Jewish MP

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<v Speaker 2>in Parliament, and so reflecting on those two things, he

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<v Speaker 2>said that factional moves display poor judgment, unfairness and diminished

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<v Speaker 2>respect for the contributions of others.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, so many groups within groups, even explaining that inner cabinet,

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<v Speaker 1>that out of cabinet, so many different things to understand.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you want to just take us through what were

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<v Speaker 1>the movements in the cabinet that Prime Mister Anthony Albanezi

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<v Speaker 1>announced yesterday.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so there were a bunch that stayed the same.

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<v Speaker 2>So people like Richard Miles so we've just spoken about,

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<v Speaker 2>will remain as Deputy Prime Minister, Jim Chalmers will remain

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<v Speaker 2>as Treasurer, Penny Wong as Foreign Affairs Minister, Katie Gallaher

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<v Speaker 2>as Minister for Finance and Women. But then if we're

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<v Speaker 2>to shift to people and roles that are changing. Tanya

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<v Speaker 2>Plibisek will become the Minister for Social Services, so she's

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<v Speaker 2>moving on from the Environment portfolio that she held in

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<v Speaker 2>that last term of parliament. Mark Butler will add the NDIS,

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<v Speaker 2>Aging and Disability portfolios to his existing health portfolio, so

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<v Speaker 2>he's now going to be covering a whole range of

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<v Speaker 2>kind of healthcare system there elsewhere. Anika Wells will become

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<v Speaker 2>the Minister for Communications, so she's now Sport and Communications.

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<v Speaker 2>Michelle Rowland will become Australia's next Attorney General, replacing as

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<v Speaker 2>we mentioned, Mark Dreyfus. Now I could go on and

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<v Speaker 2>on and read out a bunch of names, but I

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<v Speaker 2>fear that would probably be boring for our listeners. So

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely go to our Instagram and you can flick through

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<v Speaker 2>and see all of those changes. One role, though, that

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<v Speaker 2>I did think was just I don't know, interesting to

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<v Speaker 2>mention was that Anthony Albanezi announced a range of new

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<v Speaker 2>special envoys and one of them caught my ear. He

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<v Speaker 2>said that he was making Dan Repercoli the new Special

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<v Speaker 2>Envoy for men's health. That's never existed before, and I

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<v Speaker 2>thought that was an interesting one to just pick out

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<v Speaker 2>of the lot.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that is interesting. Now before we go, today is

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<v Speaker 1>a big day for the Liberal Party. They are electing

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<v Speaker 1>a new leader after Peter Duttan lost his seat. What

0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.840
<v Speaker 1>do we need to know about factions within the Liberal Party.

0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so, like I said, the Liberal Party is less

0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:03.000
<v Speaker 2>structured in the way that they run factions. It's more

0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:07.920
<v Speaker 2>just like general groupings around that ideological scale. So there

0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.720
<v Speaker 2>are the moderates, there are the centrists, and there are

0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:15.360
<v Speaker 2>the conservatives. To give you an example, Shadow Treasurer Angus

0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.080
<v Speaker 2>Taylor is part of the Conservatives, so he's part of

0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.400
<v Speaker 2>the Conservative faction. Deputy leader Susan Lee, who's also contesting

0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:26.240
<v Speaker 2>leadership today, she is considered more of a moderate and

0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.840
<v Speaker 2>so there's not necessarily these strict numbers that a number

0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.439
<v Speaker 2>of moderates or a number of Conservatives need to make

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.280
<v Speaker 2>up the shadow cabinet, but it's certainly something when it

0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:40.240
<v Speaker 2>comes to who's backing who to keep in minds, like

0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:44.200
<v Speaker 2>why are certain MPs backing Susan Lee over Angus Taylor,

0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:47.480
<v Speaker 2>for example. That'll probably because they're part of the moderate faction,

0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:51.240
<v Speaker 2>whereas the others are part of the conservative faction. But

0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.040
<v Speaker 2>I do think it's worth noting that a lot of

0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.839
<v Speaker 2>the moderate faction from the Liberal Party has basically been

0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.840
<v Speaker 2>wiped out, have lost over two elections. They've lost so

0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:04.320
<v Speaker 2>many of their moderates, especially to the Teals, that there

0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.040
<v Speaker 2>aren't many of them left in the Parliament, or at

0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.040
<v Speaker 2>least in the current parliament. So the Liberal Party of

0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:14.600
<v Speaker 2>today looks quite different from previous generations of what it did.

0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Look like, as in its more conservative right.

0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 2>Now there are not as many moderates, so yes, there

0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:25.040
<v Speaker 2>are more conservatives, but yesterday a moderate was successful in

0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:28.480
<v Speaker 2>the seat of Bradfield that was called for the Liberal Party.

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.160
<v Speaker 2>So there are some Tim Wilson is another, but there

0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.080
<v Speaker 2>aren't as many as there used to be, that's for sure.

0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, it sounds like if there's one thing that we

0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.320
<v Speaker 1>can count on, it's politicians arguing with each other.

0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.280
<v Speaker 3>Politics be politics.

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.480
<v Speaker 1>And this certainly seems like a week where that is

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:45.800
<v Speaker 1>more true than ever.

0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:48.440
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, Zara, thank you so much for taking us through that.

0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, and thank you so much for listening to

0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:53.800
<v Speaker 1>this episode of The Daily os. If you're wanting to

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<v Speaker 1>a signal that people are listening and liking us. We'll

0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.040
<v Speaker 1>be back again this afternoon with your evening headlines, but

0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 1>until then, have a great day. My name is Lily

0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.959
<v Speaker 1>Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from

0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:20.320
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is

0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 1>recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays

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0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.080
<v Speaker 3>All Aboriginal and Torres s right island and nations.

0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.320
<v Speaker 1>We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 1>both past and present,