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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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Speaker 1: now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the thirteenth of May. I'm Zara Seidler.

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Speaker 1: I'm Billy fitz Simon's.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday, Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi announced his cabinet for the

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Speaker 2: next term of parliament. It followed a week of very

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Speaker 2: public infighting in the Labor Party about who should be

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Speaker 2: elevated to the cabinet. In today's podcast, we're going to

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Speaker 2: explain the concept of factions and the role that factions

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Speaker 2: have played in discussions about who should be promoted in

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Speaker 2: the Labor Party.

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Speaker 1: So, Sara, yesterday Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi unveiled his cabinet.

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Speaker 1: But that came after a week of headlines about infighting

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Speaker 1: in Labor, which I think that many people would have

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Speaker 1: been surprised by, you know, because they had such a

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Speaker 1: signialificant when you would have thought that there would be

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Speaker 1: a lot of unity amongst the party, but that is

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Speaker 1: not what we saw. No, So this all surrounds the cabinet.

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Speaker 1: I think we should maybe just first explain what actually

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Speaker 1: is the cabinet.

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Speaker 2: Good starting point, So the cabinet is basically just the

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Speaker 2: main decision making body of the government. That's just a

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Speaker 2: good way to think about it. If you're thinking about

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Speaker 2: a business, it's like the c suite, the upper executive,

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Speaker 2: and so it's made up of ministers who have responsibility

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Speaker 2: for areas of government policy. So think things like health

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Speaker 2: or defense or education. Ministers work with relevant government departments

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Speaker 2: to oversee the government's work in that area, and they

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Speaker 2: basically just design new policies, the policies that we talk

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Speaker 2: about and the policies that the government then chooses to implement.

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Speaker 2: One thing that I think you were the person that

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Speaker 2: became very passionate in the office about this to remember

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Speaker 2: is that for someone to become a minister, you don't

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Speaker 2: actually have to have worked in the field at all.

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Speaker 2: So I think made a video about this, But basically

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Speaker 2: to become a minister and to serve in cabinet, say

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Speaker 2: as the Health minister, you don't have to have worked

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Speaker 2: as a doctor, don't have to have a medical degree,

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Speaker 2: same as truth for education, don't need to be a teacher.

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Speaker 3: Thought that was a little fun factor.

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Speaker 1: That interesting something I think about once a week. The

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Speaker 1: fact that you're yes to be the Treasurer. You don't

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Speaker 1: need to have an economics degree.

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Speaker 3: No, though he does, our treasurer does.

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Speaker 2: It is a bonus and I think important to note

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Speaker 2: here the reason why that is the case is that

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Speaker 2: often these ministers are supported by a full department that's

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Speaker 2: made up of experts, of public servant experts who are

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Speaker 2: working on.

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Speaker 3: These policies day in, day out.

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Speaker 2: But basically what we're talking about today is that cabinet

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Speaker 2: and the ministers make up the cabinet.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: And so since Labor won the election, Prime Minister Anthony

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Speaker 1: Alberizi has been deciding who will be in his cabinet. Now,

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Speaker 1: my understanding is that it is pretty much the Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister's decision alone. So why has it become so contentious?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it is in some parts his decision. But

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Speaker 2: I think to understand the Labor Party, especially, but mostly

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Speaker 2: political parties here in Australia, you need to understand factions

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Speaker 2: because factions are arguably the most powerful thing that exists,

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Speaker 2: especially in the Labor Party.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what is a faction?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to be really annoying and answer that

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Speaker 3: with an analogy.

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Speaker 2: Because I think love an analogy. It's the best way

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Speaker 2: for me to think about it. So, Billy, you like

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Speaker 2: to party or go to party a partygoer. When you

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Speaker 2: go to a party, do you ever notice that there

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Speaker 2: are like lots of small groups of people having separate discussions.

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Speaker 1: Yes, particularly at extended family gatherings, Like I'm just with

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Speaker 1: my cousins.

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Speaker 3: And the cousins you really really like the cousins that

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Speaker 3: stand over.

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Speaker 1: The second cousins wants are removed, like I'm not really

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Speaker 1: talking to them exactly, no offense.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure they're lovely, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure they're listening to shout out to Billy's cousins.

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Speaker 2: But that's basically what a faction is. So politics, when

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Speaker 2: we talk about factions, we're just talking about a party

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Speaker 2: within a party. So they're these kind of small, ideologically

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Speaker 2: aligned groups who share close ties. Now important to recognize

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Speaker 2: that they exist at both state and federal level, and

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Speaker 2: they exist in both the liberal and the labor parties.

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Speaker 2: They tend to be really really important when a party

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Speaker 2: is choosing a new leader, as the factions will create

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Speaker 2: deals with each other. So one faction might say to

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Speaker 2: another faction, if you let one of us become leader,

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Speaker 2: we'll let you become deputy leader. But it's not just

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Speaker 2: at that point that they're important. Factional deals also happen

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Speaker 2: in the course of parliamentary business too, So one faction

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Speaker 2: might offer to compromise on legislation to keep the other

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Speaker 2: faction happy. I've said the word faction so many times

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Speaker 2: it's losing its meaning if they need something else down

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Speaker 2: the road. Basically, it's just agreeing to disagree so that

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Speaker 2: there is a deal in place. Factions are basically formed

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Speaker 2: around political interests, and that's a good way to think

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Speaker 2: about them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so both the Liberal Party and the Labor Party

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Speaker 1: you have factions. Yeah, but today we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: Labor factions because those other factions that have been at

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Speaker 1: the center of all of these headlines over the past week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Labor Party's factions are much more clear

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Speaker 2: and i'd say hold a lot more weight than the

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Speaker 2: Liberal parties do. So in the Labor Party there are

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Speaker 2: two main factions. There's the left and the right.

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Speaker 3: And we have.

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Speaker 2: Dedicated a whole podcast to explaining the left and the right,

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Speaker 2: and the same is true when we talk about these factions.

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Speaker 2: So the left is like a progressive faction, the right

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Speaker 2: is a more conservative faction. Anthony Albanzi is a member

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Speaker 2: of the Labor Left, and Richard Miles, who's the deputy

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister, he is part of Labor Right. And so

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Speaker 2: the reason that we have seen so many headlines about

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Speaker 2: factions lately is because after Anthony Alberzi became or was

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Speaker 2: re elected as Prime minister, he was tasked with building

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Speaker 2: his new cabinet and he had to fill some roles

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Speaker 2: that have been made vacant because Bill Shorten, who was

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Speaker 2: the ndis minister, he was from Labor Right, he resigned

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Speaker 2: and stepped back from politics. And Assistant Treasurer Stephen Jones,

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Speaker 2: who was from Labor Left, he also retired. So basically

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Speaker 2: there were these two roles that were open for competition,

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Speaker 2: and the factions were fighting about who those replacements should be.

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Speaker 1: Can I just ask one question. Those roles are vacant

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Speaker 1: and so they have to fill them. But the whole

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Speaker 1: conversation has been actually about an entire reshuffle, So it's

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Speaker 1: not just about making sure that those two roles are filled,

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Speaker 1: but it's kind of triggered an entire reshuffle, so kind

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Speaker 1: of every position is up for grabs.

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Speaker 2: Almost yeah, because it's about numbers. It's about how many

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Speaker 2: people do Labor Left have in the cabinet and how

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Speaker 2: many people do Labor Right have and is that basically

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Speaker 2: proportional representation of who should be there. And So what

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Speaker 2: was reported last week and this kind of kicked off

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Speaker 2: the string of in fighting and headlines, is that two

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Speaker 2: cabinet ministers from the right, Attorney General Mark Dreyfus and

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Speaker 2: Science Minister Ed Husick, they'd been removed from the cabinet

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Speaker 2: for factional reasons, Zara.

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Speaker 1: Before we go on, let's just hear a quick word

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Speaker 1: from the sponsor. Okay, So we've got two people, Ed

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Speaker 1: Husick and Mark Dreyfus. They were in the cabinet in

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Speaker 1: the last term. They have now been dumped from the cabinet.

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Speaker 1: How have they responded to that?

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Speaker 3: Well, we've heard quite a lot from Ed Husick.

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Speaker 2: He was on ABC's Insiders, and I think it's fair

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Speaker 2: to say that he didn't really hold back. He called

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Speaker 2: Richard Miles, the Deputy Prime Minister, a quote factional assassin.

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Speaker 1: Wait, can I just stop you because they are from

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Speaker 1: the same faction, right, they are from the right side

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Speaker 1: of the factions.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't want to complicate this even further.

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Speaker 2: But there are like state factions as well. So Richard

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Speaker 2: Miles is from the Victorian Right and Ed Husick is

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Speaker 2: from the New South Wales Right, not actually from the

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Speaker 2: same faction. They're kind of ideologically aligned, but different groupings

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Speaker 2: of the faction.

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Speaker 3: Is that a bit confusing?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: No, that makes sense. Okay. So Richard Miles has been

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Speaker 1: called a factional assassin by Ed Husick, who lost his

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Speaker 1: position in the cabinet.

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Speaker 2: Correct, he said to the ABC. I'll just quote directly here.

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Speaker 3: He said.

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Speaker 2: The difficult issue here is that we've had bare faced

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Speaker 2: ambition and a deputy prime minister he's talking about Richard

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Speaker 2: Miles there wield a factional club to reshape the ministry.

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Speaker 2: He went on to say, I think people when they

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Speaker 2: look at a deputy prime minister, they expect to see

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Speaker 2: a statesman, not a factional assassin. He also claims that

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Speaker 2: Anthony Albanesi, who like you said, can get involved and

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Speaker 2: make the final call about who should make up the

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Speaker 2: front bench, who should make up the cabinet. He said

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Speaker 2: that Anthony Alberanzi was asked to intervene in this factional battle,

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Speaker 2: but that he stayed out of it, and ed Husick

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Speaker 2: said that if Albanizi had exercised his authority, he would

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Speaker 2: have been able to create stability and a strong team.

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Speaker 2: And he said, no one would have quibbled about that.

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Speaker 2: But according to ed Husick, Anthony Albanize stepped back and

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Speaker 2: allowed that factional battle to kind of go ahead.

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Speaker 1: And I remember also reading some very strong words from

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Speaker 1: former Prime Minister Paul keating what.

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Speaker 3: Does he say?

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Speaker 2: Yes, he's a man that often has strong words to say,

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Speaker 2: and again he also didn't hold back. He was criticizing

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Speaker 2: the fact that factional warfare was becoming more important than whoever.

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Speaker 3: Being the right person for the job was.

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Speaker 2: He said that the demotion, and especially the demotion of

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Speaker 2: ed Husick, he said, only serves to keep up some

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Speaker 2: notional proportional.

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Speaker 3: Count between factions.

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Speaker 2: In his letter, he also said that Husick is currently

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Speaker 2: the only Muslim MP in the inner cabinet because ann

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Speaker 2: Ali is in the outer cabinet and they're two different things,

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Speaker 2: and that Mark Dreyfuss is the most senior Jewish MP

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Speaker 2: in Parliament, and so reflecting on those two things, he

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Speaker 2: said that factional moves display poor judgment, unfairness and diminished

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Speaker 2: respect for the contributions of others.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so many groups within groups, even explaining that inner cabinet,

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Speaker 1: that out of cabinet, so many different things to understand.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to just take us through what were

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Speaker 1: the movements in the cabinet that Prime Mister Anthony Albanezi

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Speaker 1: announced yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so there were a bunch that stayed the same.

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Speaker 2: So people like Richard Miles so we've just spoken about,

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Speaker 2: will remain as Deputy Prime Minister, Jim Chalmers will remain

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Speaker 2: as Treasurer, Penny Wong as Foreign Affairs Minister, Katie Gallaher

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Speaker 2: as Minister for Finance and Women. But then if we're

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Speaker 2: to shift to people and roles that are changing. Tanya

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Speaker 2: Plibisek will become the Minister for Social Services, so she's

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Speaker 2: moving on from the Environment portfolio that she held in

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Speaker 2: that last term of parliament. Mark Butler will add the NDIS,

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Speaker 2: Aging and Disability portfolios to his existing health portfolio, so

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Speaker 2: he's now going to be covering a whole range of

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Speaker 2: kind of healthcare system there elsewhere. Anika Wells will become

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Speaker 2: the Minister for Communications, so she's now Sport and Communications.

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Speaker 2: Michelle Rowland will become Australia's next Attorney General, replacing as

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Speaker 2: we mentioned, Mark Dreyfus. Now I could go on and

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Speaker 2: on and read out a bunch of names, but I

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Speaker 2: fear that would probably be boring for our listeners. So

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Speaker 2: absolutely go to our Instagram and you can flick through

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Speaker 2: and see all of those changes. One role, though, that

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Speaker 2: I did think was just I don't know, interesting to

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Speaker 2: mention was that Anthony Albanezi announced a range of new

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Speaker 2: special envoys and one of them caught my ear. He

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Speaker 2: said that he was making Dan Repercoli the new Special

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Speaker 2: Envoy for men's health. That's never existed before, and I

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Speaker 2: thought that was an interesting one to just pick out

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Speaker 2: of the lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is interesting. Now before we go, today is

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Speaker 1: a big day for the Liberal Party. They are electing

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Speaker 1: a new leader after Peter Duttan lost his seat. What

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Speaker 1: do we need to know about factions within the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so, like I said, the Liberal Party is less

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Speaker 2: structured in the way that they run factions. It's more

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Speaker 2: just like general groupings around that ideological scale. So there

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Speaker 2: are the moderates, there are the centrists, and there are

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Speaker 2: the conservatives. To give you an example, Shadow Treasurer Angus

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Speaker 2: Taylor is part of the Conservatives, so he's part of

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Speaker 2: the Conservative faction. Deputy leader Susan Lee, who's also contesting

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Speaker 2: leadership today, she is considered more of a moderate and

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Speaker 2: so there's not necessarily these strict numbers that a number

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Speaker 2: of moderates or a number of Conservatives need to make

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Speaker 2: up the shadow cabinet, but it's certainly something when it

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Speaker 2: comes to who's backing who to keep in minds, like

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Speaker 2: why are certain MPs backing Susan Lee over Angus Taylor,

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Speaker 2: for example. That'll probably because they're part of the moderate faction,

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Speaker 2: whereas the others are part of the conservative faction. But

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Speaker 2: I do think it's worth noting that a lot of

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Speaker 2: the moderate faction from the Liberal Party has basically been

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Speaker 2: wiped out, have lost over two elections. They've lost so

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Speaker 2: many of their moderates, especially to the Teals, that there

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Speaker 2: aren't many of them left in the Parliament, or at

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Speaker 2: least in the current parliament. So the Liberal Party of

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Speaker 2: today looks quite different from previous generations of what it did.

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Speaker 1: Look like, as in its more conservative right.

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Speaker 2: Now there are not as many moderates, so yes, there

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Speaker 2: are more conservatives, but yesterday a moderate was successful in

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Speaker 2: the seat of Bradfield that was called for the Liberal Party.

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Speaker 2: So there are some Tim Wilson is another, but there

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Speaker 2: aren't as many as there used to be, that's for sure.

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Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like if there's one thing that we

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Speaker 1: can count on, it's politicians arguing with each other.

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Speaker 3: Politics be politics.

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Speaker 1: And this certainly seems like a week where that is

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Speaker 1: more true than ever.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, Zara, thank you so much for taking us through that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, and thank you so much for listening to

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Speaker 1: this episode of The Daily os. If you're wanting to

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Speaker 1: a signal that people are listening and liking us. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back again this afternoon with your evening headlines, but

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Speaker 1: until then, have a great day. My name is Lily

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Speaker 1: Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from

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Speaker 1: Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is

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Speaker 3: All Aboriginal and Torres s right island and nations.

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Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 1: both past and present,