WEBVTT - Guilty: The mushroom murder verdict

0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the daily This is the Daily

0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:06.840
<v Speaker 1>ohs oh, now it makes sense.

0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.119
<v Speaker 2>the eighth of July. I'm Emma Gillespie.

0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:21.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm Lucy Tassel.

0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Late yesterday afternoon, a long awaited verdict was handed down

0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:29.520
<v Speaker 2>in the mushroom murder trial of Aaron Patterson. A jury

0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:33.400
<v Speaker 2>found Patterson guilty on all three charges of murder, which

0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.000
<v Speaker 2>carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment in Victoria, and

0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:40.280
<v Speaker 2>she was also found guilty of attempted murder.

0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:44.480
<v Speaker 1>Pattison was charged after she served her estranged husband's relatives

0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:49.560
<v Speaker 1>a beef Wellington lunch that included deathcap mushrooms. Prosecutors alleged

0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.360
<v Speaker 1>she put them in the meal intentionally, while the defense

0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.880
<v Speaker 1>argued it was a mistake. Today we'll update you on

0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.840
<v Speaker 1>the latest in the trial, from verdict to sentencing, what

0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.440
<v Speaker 1>led to this moment and what comes next.

0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Lucy, You, like many of us, have been following this

0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.600
<v Speaker 2>case very closely over the last few months, even the

0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.080
<v Speaker 2>last couple of years. It's been a prominent story in

0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:21.479
<v Speaker 2>the Australian media landscape for some time. Now we finally

0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.640
<v Speaker 2>have a verdict. Can you walk us through what happened

0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:25.760
<v Speaker 2>in the case yesterday?

0:01:26.120 --> 0:01:29.920
<v Speaker 1>So yesterday afternoon we all got the news alert that

0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:34.440
<v Speaker 1>the jury was finished their deliberations, which had taken about

0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:38.120
<v Speaker 1>a week. They went into being sequestered. We'll explain that

0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.360
<v Speaker 1>more later, but they went into deliberate last Monday, and

0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.360
<v Speaker 1>so they had come to a verdict. Justice Christopher Biale

0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.920
<v Speaker 1>presided over the reading of the verdict, which was delivered

0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.440
<v Speaker 1>to a packed court room in the Latrobe Valley Magistrates Court,

0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.080
<v Speaker 1>which is where all of this has taken place. In court,

0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:01.000
<v Speaker 1>there's differing accounts of Patterson's reaction. From the ABC, we

0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.280
<v Speaker 1>heard that she showed little emotion. From nine we heard

0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:07.640
<v Speaker 1>that she blinked a lot. That was kind of the

0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.800
<v Speaker 1>main reaction that she showed. But certainly there wasn't a

0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.240
<v Speaker 1>large emotional reaction.

0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.560
<v Speaker 2>When she heard those verdicts. Yes on those four charges.

0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, when she was read the verdict and she was

0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:23.960
<v Speaker 1>found guilty of three counts of murder. Those relate to

0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:28.040
<v Speaker 1>the deaths of Don Patterson and Gail Patterson. That's her

0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:33.560
<v Speaker 1>estranged husband, Simon's parents, and Heather Wilkinson, who is her

0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:37.240
<v Speaker 1>a strange husband. Simon's aunt. And then of course there's

0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.280
<v Speaker 1>the account of attempted murder that relates to Ian Wilkinson.

0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:47.720
<v Speaker 1>That's Heather's husband, so Simon's uncle, and he survived the lunch.

0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So, as we've kind of touched on, this is

0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:54.200
<v Speaker 2>a case that has captivated not just Australians but the

0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.600
<v Speaker 2>world ye for quite some time now. We've discussed the

0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.519
<v Speaker 2>details of it on the podcast, we've discussed the big

0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.320
<v Speaker 2>updates from what ended up being a ten week hearing.

0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.680
<v Speaker 2>But can you just give us a quick reminder of

0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:11.200
<v Speaker 2>how we got here? Tell us about that fateful lunch.

0:03:11.440 --> 0:03:13.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So for those who are unfamiliar, who might have

0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.840
<v Speaker 1>forgotten the details in all of the information that's been

0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:20.800
<v Speaker 1>presented during the trial. So Aaron Patterson invited five people

0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.519
<v Speaker 1>over to lunch at her home in eastern Victoria and

0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.760
<v Speaker 1>the town of Leanngatha in July twenty twenty three. So

0:03:27.880 --> 0:03:31.080
<v Speaker 1>the people that she invited were her husband, Simon, so

0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.400
<v Speaker 1>they were estranged but still very much legally married, his

0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.360
<v Speaker 1>parents Don and Gale, and his aunt and uncle Heather

0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:42.480
<v Speaker 1>and Ian Wilkinson. The night before, Simon told erin via

0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:45.560
<v Speaker 1>text that he wouldn't be attending. We saw those texts

0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:49.760
<v Speaker 1>tended in court as evidence. Then the lunch went ahead anyway,

0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.240
<v Speaker 1>So Don Gale, Heather, Ian and Erin they all sit

0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.040
<v Speaker 1>down for a meal of beef wellington. So, for those

0:03:58.080 --> 0:03:59.920
<v Speaker 1>who don't know, a beef wellington.

0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.200
<v Speaker 2>Is a log of beef.

0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:05.720
<v Speaker 1>It's coated in a mushroom paste called duk cell and

0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:11.120
<v Speaker 1>then it's wrapped in pastry. Aaron made individual beef wellington's

0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.520
<v Speaker 1>that differed from the recipe that she was using, which

0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:18.360
<v Speaker 1>came from the recipe Tin Eats cookbook Dinner Yep, which

0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.520
<v Speaker 1>is on the shelf probably in your home right now

0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:25.640
<v Speaker 1>given iconic, yeah best selling cookbook. Now, that recipe calls

0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:30.360
<v Speaker 1>for a single log. She chose to make individual slices.

0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.359
<v Speaker 2>Which we heard in court was because she couldn't find

0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:34.920
<v Speaker 2>a piece of steak or beef that was big enough

0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:38.560
<v Speaker 2>yea to make the log, so she made individual portions. That,

0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:42.240
<v Speaker 2>of course then was contested over the weeks of this hearing.

0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Yes about whether or not she could have found her

0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.560
<v Speaker 1>evidence was that she couldn't find it. She bought individual steaks.

0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:54.080
<v Speaker 1>So following the lunch, Don Gaale, Heather and Ian all

0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:59.720
<v Speaker 1>become extremely unwell Aaron gave evidence that she also became unwell.

0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.880
<v Speaker 1>Her four guests or went to hospital. Erin then later

0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:07.839
<v Speaker 1>went to hospital. Don and Gail and Heather died in

0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:13.000
<v Speaker 1>hospital in the following days. Ian Wilkinson survived. He required

0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:16.880
<v Speaker 1>a liver transplant, but he did live and he attended court.

0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.680
<v Speaker 2>And he was in hospital for a lengthy period.

0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.560
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you might have remembered the headlines around when he

0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.760
<v Speaker 1>came out of hospital. That that was kind of the

0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.800
<v Speaker 1>biggest development in that case in those later months of

0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:32.680
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three until Erin herself was charged in November

0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:33.479
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three.

0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.240
<v Speaker 2>And you mentioned there that Erin did go to hospital.

0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:40.400
<v Speaker 2>What do we know about her condition? How was she

0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:41.800
<v Speaker 2>physically after the lunch?

0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she was not as sick as her guests. That

0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:49.240
<v Speaker 1>is certainly not contested. She has given evidence that she

0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:53.400
<v Speaker 1>was sick. So she said that she had been having

0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.800
<v Speaker 1>diarrhea for days, took herself into the hospital to get

0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.840
<v Speaker 1>some fluids, and that's when doctors told her, Oh, you

0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:03.080
<v Speaker 1>are the person from this lunch that we've heard about.

0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Everyone else who was there is really really critically ill

0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.640
<v Speaker 1>and we're very worried about you. Did anyone else eat this.

0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:11.080
<v Speaker 1>She at that point said that her children had been

0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.800
<v Speaker 1>given some of the meal, but that she'd scraped the

0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.159
<v Speaker 1>mushrooms off because they don't like them, and they told

0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:20.960
<v Speaker 1>her her kids needed to come into hospital. She pretty

0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.000
<v Speaker 1>soon after checked herself out of hospital. She said that

0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.600
<v Speaker 1>was to deal with some things at home, like letting

0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.279
<v Speaker 1>out the dog, feeding the sheep that were in her paddock,

0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:34.800
<v Speaker 1>and then she later returned to hospital. But yeah, there's

0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.760
<v Speaker 1>contested evidence about how sick she actually was. It's certainly

0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:42.680
<v Speaker 1>clear that she didn't need a liver transplant, She didn't

0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:47.320
<v Speaker 1>need as much care as the others. One of the

0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.080
<v Speaker 1>reasons she gave for why that might be the case

0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:55.880
<v Speaker 1>is that she had a history of disordered eating, and

0:06:55.960 --> 0:07:00.240
<v Speaker 1>she said that she had binged and then thrown up

0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.600
<v Speaker 1>some of the food from the lunch. She suggested that

0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:07.279
<v Speaker 1>might be or rather the defense suggested that might be

0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.800
<v Speaker 1>why she wasn't as sick because it wasn't in her

0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:11.960
<v Speaker 1>system for as long.

0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so that paints a little bit of a picture

0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.280
<v Speaker 2>of the defense, which we'll go into more shortly. But

0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:23.480
<v Speaker 2>what was the prosecution's case against Patterson, Because obviously this

0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:25.840
<v Speaker 2>is ultimately the successful argument.

0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, it's kind of strange to be thinking about

0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:31.040
<v Speaker 1>that now. I feel like for the entire length of

0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.840
<v Speaker 1>the trial. It's obviously as responsible journalists you have to

0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:38.160
<v Speaker 1>be incredibly careful about what you say about a case

0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.480
<v Speaker 1>while it's still in the court, at risk of prejudicing

0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:43.120
<v Speaker 1>the jury. But yeah, it feels strange now to be

0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:47.000
<v Speaker 1>able to say one side has definitively exactly. I mean,

0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:48.880
<v Speaker 1>there could still be an appeal, but that's.

0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:49.800
<v Speaker 2>We We will get to that.

0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.960
<v Speaker 1>We'll get to that. Sorry, jumping ahead of myself. The

0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.600
<v Speaker 1>prosecution argument, which, as you said, has now been found

0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.760
<v Speaker 1>by the jury to be the more convincing. One. Prosecutors

0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:02.720
<v Speaker 1>argued Patterson to really put death cat mushrooms in the

0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.480
<v Speaker 1>beef Wellington to kill her guests. They painted a picture

0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.280
<v Speaker 1>of a woman who had two faces, a polite face

0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.400
<v Speaker 1>to her in laws in person and her real face

0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:17.160
<v Speaker 1>speaking to her Facebook friends online, expressing frustration about her

0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:21.040
<v Speaker 1>in law's role in her relationship with her estranged husband,

0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.680
<v Speaker 1>which had been cooling in recent years despite many years

0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:29.160
<v Speaker 1>of amicable separation. Okay, doctor Nannette Rodgers, she's the prosecutor,

0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.880
<v Speaker 1>She told the jury. Patterson had research deathcat mushrooms online

0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.440
<v Speaker 1>and purchased a dehydrator a food dehydrator to prepare them.

0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:41.199
<v Speaker 1>The prosecution presented evidence that Pattison lied repeatedly to police

0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.240
<v Speaker 1>about whether or not she foraged and whether or not

0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.960
<v Speaker 1>she had a dehydrator, and they also highlighted that Patterson

0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.840
<v Speaker 1>had thrown away the dehydrator at the tip just two

0:08:51.880 --> 0:08:55.839
<v Speaker 1>days before her police interview, which you probably have seen

0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:57.640
<v Speaker 1>the CCTV footage of.

0:08:58.040 --> 0:09:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a lot was said about where the mushrooms came from,

0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.920
<v Speaker 2>whether or not she'd foraged them herself, whether or not

0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:08.199
<v Speaker 2>she'd purchased them from an Asian grosser, whether they were

0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.800
<v Speaker 2>in her pantry for a long period of time, and

0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.240
<v Speaker 2>she accidentally had death.

0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Caps, which was the defense argument.

0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly. So tell me a little bit more about

0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.080
<v Speaker 2>the defense argument.

0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So, Pattison admitted on the stand that she had

0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.960
<v Speaker 1>foraged for mushrooms and then stored them in a tupperware container.

0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.920
<v Speaker 1>The defense's argument and her argument, was that if death

0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.120
<v Speaker 1>caps were mixed in, which she admitted was possible, it

0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.600
<v Speaker 1>was just a tragic accident, that she had never intentionally

0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.880
<v Speaker 1>foraged for poisonous mushrooms, and that they're ending up in

0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.440
<v Speaker 1>the meal, which she said was to add flavor to

0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.920
<v Speaker 1>the mushroom paste. The foraged mushrooms was just a mistake.

0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.640
<v Speaker 1>And I mentioned there that she took the stand, as

0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:55.520
<v Speaker 1>we would know, that's a very rare thing in court cases.

0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I remember this case really taking a sharp turn

0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.960
<v Speaker 2>when we she earned that Aaron Patterson would be taking

0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:05.720
<v Speaker 2>the stand as witness to give testimony in her own trial.

0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:10.160
<v Speaker 2>She provided evidence over a period of several days.

0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what was it?

0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.240
<v Speaker 2>Key learnings and revelations from that time.

0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.840
<v Speaker 1>The biggest one for me that I was safe to

0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.800
<v Speaker 1>say the most surprised to see someone admit on the

0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.640
<v Speaker 1>stand was Aaron admitted to telling several lies during her

0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.200
<v Speaker 1>original police interview. So we've touched on the foraging and

0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.520
<v Speaker 1>the dehydrator, so she lied. She told them she had

0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.800
<v Speaker 1>never foraged for mushrooms and that she didn't own a dehydrator.

0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:37.600
<v Speaker 1>I suppose that one sort of a half truth because

0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.680
<v Speaker 1>she at that moment did not own a dehydrator because

0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.679
<v Speaker 1>it was in the local tip, but she had owned

0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:48.280
<v Speaker 1>one until days earlier. On the stand, she also admitted

0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.800
<v Speaker 1>to misleading her guests about having cancer. She told the

0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.480
<v Speaker 1>court she wanted their support, but had never actually been

0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:58.800
<v Speaker 1>diagnosed with cancer. But she said that she kind of

0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.520
<v Speaker 1>led them to believe that that was the case because

0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.800
<v Speaker 1>she was seeking their support in coming weeks, because she

0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.960
<v Speaker 1>said she was thinking about getting gastric banding surgery to

0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:11.920
<v Speaker 1>assist with weight loss.

0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:15.320
<v Speaker 2>And that during the recovery period she would need additional

0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:17.120
<v Speaker 2>family support with the kids, etc.

0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:22.000
<v Speaker 1>So she said she was just alighting the actual requirement

0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:22.760
<v Speaker 1>for that support.

0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Okay, there was, of course an extensive list of lies

0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:32.920
<v Speaker 2>that were dissected, explained, re prosecuted during that testimony. We

0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.440
<v Speaker 2>did a whole podcast episode on that which actually you

0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.840
<v Speaker 2>led Lucy expertly, super super interesting. We will pop link

0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:41.040
<v Speaker 2>to that in the show notes if you want to

0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.400
<v Speaker 2>hear more. But we must move on or we'll spend

0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:47.240
<v Speaker 2>all day talking about the fascinating developments from that trial.

0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.160
<v Speaker 2>But after what ended up being ten weeks of hearings,

0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.840
<v Speaker 2>the judge finally gave quite extensive instructions to the jury

0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:00.760
<v Speaker 2>over several days before they began deliberations last week. What

0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.520
<v Speaker 2>are the key updates from that time? What do we

0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:03.960
<v Speaker 2>need to know?

0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.560
<v Speaker 1>I think the biggest one to know is that Justice

0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Beale said Patterson needs to be presumed innocent until she's

0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.960
<v Speaker 1>proven guilty, and that the jury are the only ones

0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.839
<v Speaker 1>who can decide whether the prosecution has quote proven their

0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:23.520
<v Speaker 1>case beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, that's the threshold in

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.679
<v Speaker 1>criminal cases. You've probably heard us on this podcast before

0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.160
<v Speaker 1>talk about how in civil cases it's a lower standard

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.240
<v Speaker 1>of proof, which is on the balance of probabilities, is

0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.160
<v Speaker 1>it more likely than not that something happened or didn't happen.

0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.120
<v Speaker 1>But in a criminal case, it's you have to not

0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.840
<v Speaker 1>have any reasonable doubt in your mind that something occurred

0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.720
<v Speaker 1>the way that the prosecution presented it as happening. If

0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.920
<v Speaker 1>you have a reasonable doubt, you can't find a person

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:55.680
<v Speaker 1>guilty of a crime.

0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.280
<v Speaker 2>So it's like being ninety to one hundred percent sure

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.440
<v Speaker 2>of something versus being fifty one percent sure of something.

0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.840
<v Speaker 1>It's not even ninety it has to be one hundred

0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:07.040
<v Speaker 1>that you have to be. Well, certainly, I mean that's

0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:08.959
<v Speaker 1>what the defense said, right, But I think that is

0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.920
<v Speaker 1>also a legal principle that you can't have a doubt.

0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:18.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So the jury had fifteen members throughout the trial.

0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 2>We know that there were not fifteen jurors on the

0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.480
<v Speaker 2>stand yesterday when they came back into the court to

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.959
<v Speaker 2>hand down their verdict. What was that process.

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.440
<v Speaker 1>So one DURA was dismissed during the trial. It was

0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.240
<v Speaker 1>reported they had been discussing the trial with their family members,

0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:40.200
<v Speaker 1>which is not allowed. Yep, jurors weren't sequestered. They weren't

0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.880
<v Speaker 1>kept separate from the rest of the world during the trial,

0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:45.840
<v Speaker 1>which is also partly why we have to be careful

0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:49.320
<v Speaker 1>in the media in terms of accidentally saying something that

0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:53.760
<v Speaker 1>could come across a juror's path that could influence their

0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.960
<v Speaker 1>decision making. So we were down to fourteen, and then

0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.880
<v Speaker 1>last week before the d began deliberating, two more were dismissed.

0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:06.360
<v Speaker 1>So the court system takes in more duras than will

0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:07.520
<v Speaker 1>actually make the.

0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.600
<v Speaker 2>Decision, particularly in a high profile case like this.

0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, in case of illness or family emergency, any of

0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.720
<v Speaker 1>the reasons why people might not be able to complete

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 1>the full trial. So two were dismissed and then the

0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 1>final twelve went on to They were then sequestered, which

0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 1>means that they were kept separate from the rest of

0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.840
<v Speaker 1>the world, didn't go home for the days that they

0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:35.120
<v Speaker 1>were deliberating, were taken probably to a hotel, no media,

0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:39.640
<v Speaker 1>no phone, only the case and the deliberations every day.

0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.600
<v Speaker 2>So they were essentially put into a lockdown bubble of

0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 2>this jury where they had no communication with the outside world,

0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:50.400
<v Speaker 2>no access to any communication devices. It was you will

0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.600
<v Speaker 2>stay together until you can reach a decision.

0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and that had to be a unanimous decision, and

0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.720
<v Speaker 1>we now know a unanimous verdict of guilt on all

0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:01.600
<v Speaker 1>four charges.

0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 2>So tell me how it all unfolded on Monday. On

0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Monday afternoon we got the news. The newsroom here at

0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 2>the Daily Os was ready to go. We've been waiting

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:16.280
<v Speaker 2>for a while for this one. What charges specifically has

0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Aaron Patterson been found guilty of?

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.359
<v Speaker 1>So there's three. So there's account of murder of Don Patterson,

0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.840
<v Speaker 1>account of murder of Gail Patterson, account of murder of

0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Heather Wilkinson, and then another one of attempted murder for

0:15:29.960 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Ian Wilkinson, who survived. That's about all we know in

0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.520
<v Speaker 1>terms of the juries, thinking that they collectively found Aaron

0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Patterson responsible beyond a reasonable doubt. Australian jurors are not

0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.840
<v Speaker 1>allowed to speak in the media about their decision making

0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.640
<v Speaker 1>and we will never know what was discussed in the

0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:49.360
<v Speaker 1>jury room.

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so just to recap lucy, we've got three charges

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.080
<v Speaker 2>of murder. Aaron Patterson has been found guilty of ye

0:15:56.480 --> 0:16:00.480
<v Speaker 2>one count of attempted murder guilty. Also, that's the disease there.

0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:02.160
<v Speaker 2>What happens now?

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.640
<v Speaker 1>So Erin is remanded in custody, she's awaiting being sentenced.

0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.480
<v Speaker 1>We don't yet know when she will be sentenced, okay, and.

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:11.560
<v Speaker 2>That decision will be up to the judge. The jury

0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:12.440
<v Speaker 2>are dismissed.

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Yep, that's it. The jury's jobs are done. They go

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 1>back to their lives. I mean, imagine just going back

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.440
<v Speaker 1>to work tomorrow knowing that you couldn't talk about it. Yeah,

0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.760
<v Speaker 1>but yes, So basically, at this point, it's the legal

0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.480
<v Speaker 1>system takes over the prosecution. The defense makes submissions about

0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.800
<v Speaker 1>what they think the sentence should be. Okay, the maximum

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:35.200
<v Speaker 1>sentence for murder is life. It's we just don't know, okay,

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.080
<v Speaker 1>it's going to pan out there, But we know that

0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Erin is in custody. We also know that the next

0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:44.160
<v Speaker 1>time she appears in court will be for victim impact statements.

0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:45.600
<v Speaker 2>What does that mean?

0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.040
<v Speaker 1>So that means that the people who have been affected

0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 1>by what a jury has now found were Erin's actions

0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.760
<v Speaker 1>will be able to speak to the court, to the judge,

0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 1>and to Erin herself about the impact that this has

0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:02.200
<v Speaker 1>had on them. So I imagine we'll be hearing from

0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 1>the families of well, yeah, I guess once upon a

0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:11.880
<v Speaker 1>time Erin's family, right, Erin's extended family, probably from Ian Wilkinson.

0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm just speculating, but I imagine when you think of

0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:19.879
<v Speaker 1>the people who've been affected, Don and Gale's other grandchildren,

0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Heber and Ian's grandchildren and children. Yep, yeah, we will

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.560
<v Speaker 1>be hearing from them before sentencing is decided.

0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 2>That will be fascinating and we will keep an eye

0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.840
<v Speaker 2>on that. As Lucy said, the sentencing date is yet

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 2>to be set, but the murder charge in Victoria carries

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 2>life imprisonment, which is typically twenty five years. Attempted murder

0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 2>also carries a maximum sentence of twenty five years, so

0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:48.000
<v Speaker 2>on maths alone, we're looking at a very very lengthy

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.560
<v Speaker 2>prison sentence for Aaron Patterson. Lucy, thank you so much

0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.560
<v Speaker 2>for taking us through that, and thank you over the

0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.159
<v Speaker 2>course of these hearings for breaking it all down for

0:17:57.320 --> 0:17:59.439
<v Speaker 2>us and helping us get our heads around such a

0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:04.119
<v Speaker 2>complicated case, that's all we've got time for on today's episode.

0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:07.200
<v Speaker 2>We will be back later this afternoon with your latest

0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:10.120
<v Speaker 2>evening news headlines, but until then, have a great day.

0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Bunjelung Calkatin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.080
<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.640
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 1>Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.400
<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.