1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the Daily 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 2: the eighth of July. I'm Emma Gillespie. 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: I'm Lucy Tassel. 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: Late yesterday afternoon, a long awaited verdict was handed down 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: in the mushroom murder trial of Aaron Patterson. A jury 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 2: found Patterson guilty on all three charges of murder, which 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: carries a maximum penalty of life imprisonment in Victoria, and 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: she was also found guilty of attempted murder. 11 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: Pattison was charged after she served her estranged husband's relatives 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: a beef Wellington lunch that included deathcap mushrooms. Prosecutors alleged 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: she put them in the meal intentionally, while the defense 14 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: argued it was a mistake. Today we'll update you on 15 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: the latest in the trial, from verdict to sentencing, what 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: led to this moment and what comes next. 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 2: Lucy, You, like many of us, have been following this 18 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 2: case very closely over the last few months, even the 19 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: last couple of years. It's been a prominent story in 20 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 2: the Australian media landscape for some time. Now we finally 21 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: have a verdict. Can you walk us through what happened 22 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: in the case yesterday? 23 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 1: So yesterday afternoon we all got the news alert that 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: the jury was finished their deliberations, which had taken about 25 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: a week. They went into being sequestered. We'll explain that 26 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: more later, but they went into deliberate last Monday, and 27 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: so they had come to a verdict. Justice Christopher Biale 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: presided over the reading of the verdict, which was delivered 29 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: to a packed court room in the Latrobe Valley Magistrates Court, 30 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: which is where all of this has taken place. In court, 31 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: there's differing accounts of Patterson's reaction. From the ABC, we 32 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: heard that she showed little emotion. From nine we heard 33 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: that she blinked a lot. That was kind of the 34 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: main reaction that she showed. But certainly there wasn't a 35 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: large emotional reaction. 36 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: When she heard those verdicts. Yes on those four charges. 37 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: Yes, when she was read the verdict and she was 38 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: found guilty of three counts of murder. Those relate to 39 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: the deaths of Don Patterson and Gail Patterson. That's her 40 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: estranged husband, Simon's parents, and Heather Wilkinson, who is her 41 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: a strange husband. Simon's aunt. And then of course there's 42 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: the account of attempted murder that relates to Ian Wilkinson. 43 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: That's Heather's husband, so Simon's uncle, and he survived the lunch. 44 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: Okay. So, as we've kind of touched on, this is 45 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 2: a case that has captivated not just Australians but the 46 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: world ye for quite some time now. We've discussed the 47 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 2: details of it on the podcast, we've discussed the big 48 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 2: updates from what ended up being a ten week hearing. 49 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 2: But can you just give us a quick reminder of 50 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: how we got here? Tell us about that fateful lunch. 51 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:13,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, So for those who are unfamiliar, who might have 52 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: forgotten the details in all of the information that's been 53 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: presented during the trial. So Aaron Patterson invited five people 54 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,519 Speaker 1: over to lunch at her home in eastern Victoria and 55 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: the town of Leanngatha in July twenty twenty three. So 56 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: the people that she invited were her husband, Simon, so 57 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: they were estranged but still very much legally married, his 58 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: parents Don and Gale, and his aunt and uncle Heather 59 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: and Ian Wilkinson. The night before, Simon told erin via 60 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: text that he wouldn't be attending. We saw those texts 61 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: tended in court as evidence. Then the lunch went ahead anyway, 62 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: So Don Gale, Heather, Ian and Erin they all sit 63 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: down for a meal of beef wellington. So, for those 64 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: who don't know, a beef wellington. 65 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 2: Is a log of beef. 66 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: It's coated in a mushroom paste called duk cell and 67 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 1: then it's wrapped in pastry. Aaron made individual beef wellington's 68 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: that differed from the recipe that she was using, which 69 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: came from the recipe Tin Eats cookbook Dinner Yep, which 70 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: is on the shelf probably in your home right now 71 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: given iconic, yeah best selling cookbook. Now, that recipe calls 72 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: for a single log. She chose to make individual slices. 73 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:32,359 Speaker 2: Which we heard in court was because she couldn't find 74 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 2: a piece of steak or beef that was big enough 75 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: yea to make the log, so she made individual portions. That, 76 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 2: of course then was contested over the weeks of this hearing. 77 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: Yes about whether or not she could have found her 78 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: evidence was that she couldn't find it. She bought individual steaks. 79 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: So following the lunch, Don Gaale, Heather and Ian all 80 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: become extremely unwell Aaron gave evidence that she also became unwell. 81 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: Her four guests or went to hospital. Erin then later 82 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: went to hospital. Don and Gail and Heather died in 83 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: hospital in the following days. Ian Wilkinson survived. He required 84 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 1: a liver transplant, but he did live and he attended court. 85 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: And he was in hospital for a lengthy period. 86 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: Yes, you might have remembered the headlines around when he 87 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: came out of hospital. That that was kind of the 88 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: biggest development in that case in those later months of 89 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three until Erin herself was charged in November 90 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. 91 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: And you mentioned there that Erin did go to hospital. 92 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: What do we know about her condition? How was she 93 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: physically after the lunch? 94 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was not as sick as her guests. That 95 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: is certainly not contested. She has given evidence that she 96 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: was sick. So she said that she had been having 97 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: diarrhea for days, took herself into the hospital to get 98 00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: some fluids, and that's when doctors told her, Oh, you 99 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: are the person from this lunch that we've heard about. 100 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: Everyone else who was there is really really critically ill 101 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: and we're very worried about you. Did anyone else eat this. 102 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: She at that point said that her children had been 103 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: given some of the meal, but that she'd scraped the 104 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 1: mushrooms off because they don't like them, and they told 105 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: her her kids needed to come into hospital. She pretty 106 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: soon after checked herself out of hospital. She said that 107 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 1: was to deal with some things at home, like letting 108 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: out the dog, feeding the sheep that were in her paddock, 109 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: and then she later returned to hospital. But yeah, there's 110 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: contested evidence about how sick she actually was. It's certainly 111 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: clear that she didn't need a liver transplant, She didn't 112 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: need as much care as the others. One of the 113 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: reasons she gave for why that might be the case 114 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: is that she had a history of disordered eating, and 115 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: she said that she had binged and then thrown up 116 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 1: some of the food from the lunch. She suggested that 117 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: might be or rather the defense suggested that might be 118 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: why she wasn't as sick because it wasn't in her 119 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: system for as long. 120 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: Okay, so that paints a little bit of a picture 121 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: of the defense, which we'll go into more shortly. But 122 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 2: what was the prosecution's case against Patterson, Because obviously this 123 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 2: is ultimately the successful argument. 124 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's kind of strange to be thinking about 125 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: that now. I feel like for the entire length of 126 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: the trial. It's obviously as responsible journalists you have to 127 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: be incredibly careful about what you say about a case 128 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: while it's still in the court, at risk of prejudicing 129 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: the jury. But yeah, it feels strange now to be 130 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: able to say one side has definitively exactly. I mean, 131 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: there could still be an appeal, but that's. 132 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 2: We We will get to that. 133 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: We'll get to that. Sorry, jumping ahead of myself. The 134 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: prosecution argument, which, as you said, has now been found 135 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: by the jury to be the more convincing. One. Prosecutors 136 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: argued Patterson to really put death cat mushrooms in the 137 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: beef Wellington to kill her guests. They painted a picture 138 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: of a woman who had two faces, a polite face 139 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: to her in laws in person and her real face 140 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: speaking to her Facebook friends online, expressing frustration about her 141 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: in law's role in her relationship with her estranged husband, 142 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: which had been cooling in recent years despite many years 143 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: of amicable separation. Okay, doctor Nannette Rodgers, she's the prosecutor, 144 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: She told the jury. Patterson had research deathcat mushrooms online 145 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: and purchased a dehydrator a food dehydrator to prepare them. 146 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: The prosecution presented evidence that Pattison lied repeatedly to police 147 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: about whether or not she foraged and whether or not 148 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: she had a dehydrator, and they also highlighted that Patterson 149 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: had thrown away the dehydrator at the tip just two 150 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,839 Speaker 1: days before her police interview, which you probably have seen 151 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: the CCTV footage of. 152 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot was said about where the mushrooms came from, 153 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 2: whether or not she'd foraged them herself, whether or not 154 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 2: she'd purchased them from an Asian grosser, whether they were 155 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 2: in her pantry for a long period of time, and 156 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: she accidentally had death. 157 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: Caps, which was the defense argument. 158 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So tell me a little bit more about 159 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 2: the defense argument. 160 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, Pattison admitted on the stand that she had 161 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: foraged for mushrooms and then stored them in a tupperware container. 162 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: The defense's argument and her argument, was that if death 163 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: caps were mixed in, which she admitted was possible, it 164 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: was just a tragic accident, that she had never intentionally 165 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: foraged for poisonous mushrooms, and that they're ending up in 166 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: the meal, which she said was to add flavor to 167 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: the mushroom paste. The foraged mushrooms was just a mistake. 168 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: And I mentioned there that she took the stand, as 169 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: we would know, that's a very rare thing in court cases. 170 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember this case really taking a sharp turn 171 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: when we she earned that Aaron Patterson would be taking 172 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 2: the stand as witness to give testimony in her own trial. 173 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 2: She provided evidence over a period of several days. 174 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it? 175 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: Key learnings and revelations from that time. 176 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: The biggest one for me that I was safe to 177 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: say the most surprised to see someone admit on the 178 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: stand was Aaron admitted to telling several lies during her 179 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: original police interview. So we've touched on the foraging and 180 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: the dehydrator, so she lied. She told them she had 181 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: never foraged for mushrooms and that she didn't own a dehydrator. 182 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: I suppose that one sort of a half truth because 183 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: she at that moment did not own a dehydrator because 184 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: it was in the local tip, but she had owned 185 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: one until days earlier. On the stand, she also admitted 186 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: to misleading her guests about having cancer. She told the 187 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: court she wanted their support, but had never actually been 188 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: diagnosed with cancer. But she said that she kind of 189 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 1: led them to believe that that was the case because 190 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: she was seeking their support in coming weeks, because she 191 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: said she was thinking about getting gastric banding surgery to 192 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: assist with weight loss. 193 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 2: And that during the recovery period she would need additional 194 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: family support with the kids, etc. 195 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: So she said she was just alighting the actual requirement 196 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: for that support. 197 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 2: Okay, there was, of course an extensive list of lies 198 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:32,920 Speaker 2: that were dissected, explained, re prosecuted during that testimony. We 199 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: did a whole podcast episode on that which actually you 200 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,840 Speaker 2: led Lucy expertly, super super interesting. We will pop link 201 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: to that in the show notes if you want to 202 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: hear more. But we must move on or we'll spend 203 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: all day talking about the fascinating developments from that trial. 204 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: But after what ended up being ten weeks of hearings, 205 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 2: the judge finally gave quite extensive instructions to the jury 206 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 2: over several days before they began deliberations last week. What 207 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 2: are the key updates from that time? What do we 208 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 2: need to know? 209 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: I think the biggest one to know is that Justice 210 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: Beale said Patterson needs to be presumed innocent until she's 211 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: proven guilty, and that the jury are the only ones 212 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 1: who can decide whether the prosecution has quote proven their 213 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: case beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, that's the threshold in 214 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: criminal cases. You've probably heard us on this podcast before 215 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: talk about how in civil cases it's a lower standard 216 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: of proof, which is on the balance of probabilities, is 217 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: it more likely than not that something happened or didn't happen. 218 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: But in a criminal case, it's you have to not 219 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 1: have any reasonable doubt in your mind that something occurred 220 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: the way that the prosecution presented it as happening. If 221 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: you have a reasonable doubt, you can't find a person 222 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 1: guilty of a crime. 223 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 2: So it's like being ninety to one hundred percent sure 224 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: of something versus being fifty one percent sure of something. 225 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: It's not even ninety it has to be one hundred 226 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: that you have to be. Well, certainly, I mean that's 227 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: what the defense said, right, But I think that is 228 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: also a legal principle that you can't have a doubt. 229 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the jury had fifteen members throughout the trial. 230 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: We know that there were not fifteen jurors on the 231 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: stand yesterday when they came back into the court to 232 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,959 Speaker 2: hand down their verdict. What was that process. 233 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: So one DURA was dismissed during the trial. It was 234 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,240 Speaker 1: reported they had been discussing the trial with their family members, 235 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: which is not allowed. Yep, jurors weren't sequestered. They weren't 236 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: kept separate from the rest of the world during the trial, 237 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: which is also partly why we have to be careful 238 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: in the media in terms of accidentally saying something that 239 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: could come across a juror's path that could influence their 240 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: decision making. So we were down to fourteen, and then 241 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: last week before the d began deliberating, two more were dismissed. 242 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: So the court system takes in more duras than will 243 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: actually make the. 244 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 2: Decision, particularly in a high profile case like this. 245 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, in case of illness or family emergency, any of 246 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: the reasons why people might not be able to complete 247 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: the full trial. So two were dismissed and then the 248 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: final twelve went on to They were then sequestered, which 249 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: means that they were kept separate from the rest of 250 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: the world, didn't go home for the days that they 251 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: were deliberating, were taken probably to a hotel, no media, 252 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: no phone, only the case and the deliberations every day. 253 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: So they were essentially put into a lockdown bubble of 254 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: this jury where they had no communication with the outside world, 255 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: no access to any communication devices. It was you will 256 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 2: stay together until you can reach a decision. 257 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: Yes, and that had to be a unanimous decision, and 258 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 1: we now know a unanimous verdict of guilt on all 259 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: four charges. 260 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 2: So tell me how it all unfolded on Monday. On 261 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: Monday afternoon we got the news. The newsroom here at 262 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: the Daily Os was ready to go. We've been waiting 263 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 2: for a while for this one. What charges specifically has 264 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: Aaron Patterson been found guilty of? 265 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,359 Speaker 1: So there's three. So there's account of murder of Don Patterson, 266 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: account of murder of Gail Patterson, account of murder of 267 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: Heather Wilkinson, and then another one of attempted murder for 268 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: Ian Wilkinson, who survived. That's about all we know in 269 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: terms of the juries, thinking that they collectively found Aaron 270 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: Patterson responsible beyond a reasonable doubt. Australian jurors are not 271 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: allowed to speak in the media about their decision making 272 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: and we will never know what was discussed in the 273 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: jury room. 274 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 2: Okay, so just to recap lucy, we've got three charges 275 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 2: of murder. Aaron Patterson has been found guilty of ye 276 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 2: one count of attempted murder guilty. Also, that's the disease there. 277 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 2: What happens now? 278 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: So Erin is remanded in custody, she's awaiting being sentenced. 279 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: We don't yet know when she will be sentenced, okay, and. 280 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: That decision will be up to the judge. The jury 281 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: are dismissed. 282 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: Yep, that's it. The jury's jobs are done. They go 283 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: back to their lives. I mean, imagine just going back 284 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: to work tomorrow knowing that you couldn't talk about it. Yeah, 285 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: but yes, So basically, at this point, it's the legal 286 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: system takes over the prosecution. The defense makes submissions about 287 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: what they think the sentence should be. Okay, the maximum 288 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: sentence for murder is life. It's we just don't know, okay, 289 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: it's going to pan out there, But we know that 290 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: Erin is in custody. We also know that the next 291 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: time she appears in court will be for victim impact statements. 292 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 2: What does that mean? 293 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: So that means that the people who have been affected 294 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: by what a jury has now found were Erin's actions 295 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: will be able to speak to the court, to the judge, 296 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: and to Erin herself about the impact that this has 297 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: had on them. So I imagine we'll be hearing from 298 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: the families of well, yeah, I guess once upon a 299 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: time Erin's family, right, Erin's extended family, probably from Ian Wilkinson. 300 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 1: I'm just speculating, but I imagine when you think of 301 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: the people who've been affected, Don and Gale's other grandchildren, 302 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: Heber and Ian's grandchildren and children. Yep, yeah, we will 303 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: be hearing from them before sentencing is decided. 304 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: That will be fascinating and we will keep an eye 305 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 2: on that. As Lucy said, the sentencing date is yet 306 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 2: to be set, but the murder charge in Victoria carries 307 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: life imprisonment, which is typically twenty five years. Attempted murder 308 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 2: also carries a maximum sentence of twenty five years, so 309 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: on maths alone, we're looking at a very very lengthy 310 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 2: prison sentence for Aaron Patterson. Lucy, thank you so much 311 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 2: for taking us through that, and thank you over the 312 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 2: course of these hearings for breaking it all down for 313 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,439 Speaker 2: us and helping us get our heads around such a 314 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 2: complicated case, that's all we've got time for on today's episode. 315 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 2: We will be back later this afternoon with your latest 316 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 2: evening news headlines, but until then, have a great day. 317 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 318 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calkatin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 319 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 320 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 321 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 322 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,400 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.