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Speaker 1: As I mentioned, we know that plans to move school

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Speaker 1: counselors to a regional office have been met with backlash

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Speaker 1: from senior students as well as school counsels and a

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Speaker 1: number of parents joining me on the line to tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit more about how exactly this is

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Speaker 1: going to work. Is The Education Department's Executive Director of

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Speaker 1: Inclusion and Engagement Services are Darren Chatterton.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie. Thank you for the opportunity to talk more.

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Speaker 1: Now tell me how is this new model going to work?

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Speaker 3: Thank you. So, first of all, I just want to

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Speaker 3: clarify that we absolutely have school counselors in our schools.

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Speaker 3: There's not a big move to move all of our

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Speaker 3: school counselors into the Mitchell Center or into our office.

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Speaker 3: But what we are focusing on is ensuring we have

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Speaker 3: strong teams in each of our regional locations so that

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Speaker 3: we can be supporting students and schools in the great

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Speaker 3: work that they do right across the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: So the school councilors aren't being moved out of Casuarina

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Speaker 1: Senior College or other schools.

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Speaker 3: So what we've currently got is we've got in our structure.

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Speaker 3: We've got thirty positions, thirty school councilor position right across

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Speaker 3: the Northern territory. We've currently got twenty one of those

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Speaker 3: filled and three will be starting by the end of May,

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Speaker 3: and we're continuing to recruit to fill those other vacancies all around.

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Speaker 2: So where exactly are they going to be based?

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Speaker 1: Twenty one of those already filled, you're going to have

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Speaker 1: a three more on, so twenty four in total.

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Speaker 2: So where exactly will they be based?

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Speaker 3: So our current model is they're based in our middle

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Speaker 3: and senior schools and then we also have some offices

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Speaker 3: that are in our center. So two positions that look

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Speaker 3: at ensuring we've got the ability to respond to all schools,

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Speaker 3: so schools know that they can reach out to us

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Speaker 3: if they don't have a school counselor space, and they

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Speaker 3: can say, you know, this issues popped up, we need

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Speaker 3: some support, and we've got those qualified people manning the

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Speaker 3: phones and the emails, and just last week someone went

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Speaker 3: out within twenty minutes of a school contact in them

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Speaker 3: to say, you know, we need some additional support. So

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Speaker 3: we have those people on the ground wherever they're needed,

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Speaker 3: and we fly them across the territory if required.

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Speaker 1: All right, So I just want to really get to

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Speaker 1: the heart of this. We've got school saying that they're

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Speaker 1: being moved out of those various different locations, So out

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Speaker 1: of those schools and into a centralized model. Are you

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Speaker 1: telling me that they're not going into that centralized model.

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Speaker 3: We currently are not removing counselors from our schools to

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Speaker 3: work in the center. We do have a centralized model

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Speaker 3: around ensuring there's consistency in paperwork and information that's provided

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Speaker 3: so that we can look at what other support might

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Speaker 3: be required. But we are having conversations with our school principles.

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Speaker 3: In a fortnite we've got another check in reflecting on

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Speaker 3: you know, we're returning to this new process of referrals,

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Speaker 3: and also you know, we do have twenty one out

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Speaker 3: of thirty positions build, which has meant in some instances

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Speaker 3: we've had to look at some of the counselors that

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Speaker 3: may have been based in a school five days a

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Speaker 3: week for a few weeks, working across two schools, again

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Speaker 3: just to ensure that our middle and senior schools have

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Speaker 3: equity access.

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Speaker 1: So there's only three counselors out of thirty currently working

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Speaker 1: at the Mitchell Center.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: We have people rousted on. There's two a week.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just I'm really trying to work out exactly how

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Speaker 1: this is. You know, how this is going to work,

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Speaker 1: because obviously in Ti Conso was on the show yesterday

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Speaker 1: as we're the captains of one of those schools that

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Speaker 1: were incredibly concerned that the counselors are being moved out

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Speaker 1: of the school. But you're essentially saying to me this

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Speaker 1: morning that they're not being moved out of the school.

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Speaker 3: No. Our structure, in our area, we have a large

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Speaker 3: focus on school facing support and provision, and so I understand.

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Speaker 3: I listened to the interview yesterday, and we also when

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Speaker 3: I saw the online petition from the students of Catherina

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Speaker 3: Senior College, I reached out to the school and said, look,

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Speaker 3: I'd love to come and meet with your src. Let's

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Speaker 3: have a conversation, let me respond to their concerns, but

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Speaker 3: also hear from them around what it means their lived

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Speaker 3: experience and reality in relation to the role. So that's

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Speaker 3: happening this week. We also are working with our Youth

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Speaker 3: Voice crew around our ongoing focus on mental health and

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Speaker 3: well being, and we look forward in a few weeks.

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Speaker 3: I've got some time with the cogso we really value

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Speaker 3: we acknowledge whenever we're looking at mental health and well being,

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Speaker 3: support for students, parent voice, and partnerships integral. So really

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Speaker 3: looking forward to clarifying.

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Speaker 1: So is this a back flip, I mean, is this

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Speaker 1: a backflip from the department, because yesterday obviously we've seen

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Speaker 1: the Department of Education at issue to statement saying that

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Speaker 1: the move to regional teams will provide greater equity in

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Speaker 1: access to services and support, and that the model is

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Speaker 1: being introduced in well is consistent with what other states

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Speaker 1: and territories are doing, and that while some staff may

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Speaker 1: be based in regional offices, they're working hours, will be

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Speaker 1: physically in schools supporting students. But from what I can

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Speaker 1: read from that, they are going to be based in

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Speaker 1: those regional offices. But you're saying now that that's not

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Speaker 1: the case.

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Speaker 3: So the statement there refers to those duty officer positions

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Speaker 3: that I just mentioned, So you know they are positions

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Speaker 3: based in the US, but all the others are out

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Speaker 3: in our schools, all right.

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Speaker 1: Can you just break it down for us, So how

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Speaker 1: many of them are out in the schools.

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Speaker 3: So we have twenty one councilors across the Northern territory.

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Speaker 3: So for example, we currently have five in the Darwin

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Speaker 3: region and we're recruiting to the other four positions that

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Speaker 3: are vacant, and so they are based in our middle

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Speaker 3: and senior secondary schools and.

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Speaker 2: They're going to stay in those schools.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, at this point in time, while we continue to

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Speaker 3: have conversations, we want to continue to strengthen, strengthen the

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Speaker 3: work that we're doing in this space.

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Speaker 1: Was the plan though to move them to that centralized office.

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Speaker 3: The plan has always been around equity of service. You know,

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Speaker 3: we need to continue to think about how we're also

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Speaker 3: providing support for our primary schools. And so I know

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Speaker 3: that our counselors, you know, they tend to work in hubs,

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Speaker 3: our schools. They look at the primary schools that feed

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Speaker 3: into middle and senior secondary and I know that when required,

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Speaker 3: some of our middle and senior school counselors also partnering

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Speaker 3: and tap into their local primary school. But also that's

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Speaker 3: the role of those duty counselors that we have those

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Speaker 3: two positions.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just trying to make sense of this because obviously,

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Speaker 1: like I said, you've got a situation where clearly schools

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Speaker 1: and students were very concerned about the changes that were

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Speaker 1: coming into play. And from the sounds of what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: those school counselors are not moving out right now, but

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Speaker 1: there were discussions around around the plans in the future.

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Speaker 1: So is it a situation here where the department's backfliped.

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Speaker 3: No, No, This whole thing was always about consultationation and conversations.

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Speaker 3: We've partnered with Deloitte and last term, I know there

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Speaker 3: was a series of consultations with our principles, getting feedback

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Speaker 3: on what service needs there are in this space, also

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Speaker 3: getting feedback about what's working well and where our challenges

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Speaker 3: are as we kind of seek to continue to improve.

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Speaker 3: But I just reiterate, you know, students will continue to

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Speaker 3: still see counselors in their schools. They'll still have access

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Speaker 3: to the important mental health support.

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Speaker 1: The big concern from those students is that is that

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Speaker 1: they're worried that if you need that urgent counseling, that

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Speaker 1: there isn't going to be a school counselor on site

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Speaker 1: to be able to provide that service.

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Speaker 2: What would you say to those students.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to reassure them that already there are instances where,

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Speaker 3: for example, a young person presents at their school and

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Speaker 3: maybe the school counsel is away for the day. And

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Speaker 3: I know our school staff do a great job, but

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Speaker 3: then what they do is they reach out to us,

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Speaker 3: and that strength of that model with having two people

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Speaker 3: available via email on the phone to talk through the

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Speaker 3: school team, and then to get people out to support

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Speaker 3: on the ground as required.

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Speaker 1: Now I've got a message here that had come through

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Speaker 1: from Scott and he said, Hi, Katie, my child has

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Speaker 1: mental health issues, suffers from depression and has been suicidal

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Speaker 1: for some time. I have them seeing professionals outside of school. However,

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Speaker 1: I believe having a school based counselor has been paramount

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Speaker 1: in saving my child's life.

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Speaker 2: What would you.

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Speaker 1: Say to somebody like Scott who is a parent who's

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Speaker 1: obviously concerned about these changes or about what could change

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Speaker 1: in terms of they're being that counseling, they're available and

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Speaker 1: ready to students who need it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, Katie. I think Scott Scott's story there

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Speaker 3: just highlights another important role that our counselors play. So

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Speaker 3: they are that one person and that important point of

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Speaker 3: call for our young people. But there's also work that

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Speaker 3: we do around ensuring that families, students, and our own

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Speaker 3: staff are aware of all of the other different providers

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Speaker 3: that can be in this space providing important wrap around support.

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Speaker 3: We know that our schools are places that people feel

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Speaker 3: comfortable and a place of belonging. We know our teachers

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Speaker 3: are so connected to our young people, and so it's

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Speaker 3: about us ensuring not just our counselors are there, but

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Speaker 3: also that we have really current information available to support

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Speaker 3: families as they navigate this space. It's actually a topic

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Speaker 3: of conversation I'm having with cogso in a few weeks

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Speaker 3: around what pieces of information can we be putting out

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Speaker 3: there to support families in this space. Counselor yes, one

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Speaker 3: on one support, but also sometimes it's a triage, it's

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Speaker 3: a referral to other services.

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Speaker 1: Well, it does sound as though they're just aren't enough

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Speaker 1: counselors to go around, So I'll get to that in

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Speaker 1: a second. But we're literally receiving messages right now saying

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Speaker 1: that those school councilors has already been moved.

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Speaker 3: They haven't been moved permanently. There are people that have

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Speaker 3: changed their change maybe their school, Like I know one

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Speaker 3: school that were used to having a counselor for five

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Speaker 3: days a week. They currently have to have that person

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Speaker 3: for maybe three days a week and then two the

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Speaker 3: next week, as we maximize our resources across our schools

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Speaker 3: while we undergo the recruitment. Just last week, I checked

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Speaker 3: in with a counselor who have started up in Central

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Speaker 3: Region and she's working between Centralian Middle School and Centralian

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Speaker 3: Senior School.

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Speaker 1: So they are rotating between school. Look, honestly, I'm feeling

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Speaker 1: really confused, and I understan and appreciate the fact that

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Speaker 1: you've rocked up on the show to answer questions for us,

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Speaker 1: but I feel as though there's bits of the puzzle

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Speaker 1: that are missing here. So they have been moved out

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Speaker 1: of some of those schools. They're obviously rotating, and it

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Speaker 1: sounds as so it's because we don't.

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Speaker 2: Have enough of them.

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Speaker 3: Because we're undergoing recruitment to the positions that we do have.

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Speaker 3: We've actually grown the number of councilors in our structure

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Speaker 3: by five compared to last year, and when we looked

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Speaker 3: at the number of counselors based in each region, we

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Speaker 3: did use student student numbers. For example, so if you

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Speaker 3: were when I shared the data before. Darwin Region, for example,

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Speaker 3: we have nine counselors based in the Darwin Region, based

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Speaker 3: in schools in the Darwin Region, and Darwin Region have

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Speaker 3: our largest number of students in the government school Look.

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Speaker 1: Fundamentally, what every what every student, what everybody wants out

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Speaker 1: of this whole situation is that kids that need it

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Speaker 1: are able to see a school counselor. I mean to

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Speaker 1: those that are listening this morning, to those students that

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Speaker 1: we spoke to yesterday who are incredibly concerned, to NT

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Speaker 1: Cogso who are obviously incredibly concerned, to parents like Scott

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Speaker 1: who have emailed through here is one of many that

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Speaker 1: is incredibly concerned that this model that is being flagged,

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Speaker 1: whether it's happening now or whether it's down the track,

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Speaker 1: they're very worried that kids are going to fall through

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Speaker 1: the cracks. What is your message to those people?

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Speaker 3: My message to those people is we know how critical

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Speaker 3: our school counselors are and the essential support service that

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Speaker 3: they provide to our students in our schools, and we

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Speaker 3: want to ensure that that support is equitable and available

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Speaker 3: to all schools. And we you know, are looking forward

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Speaker 3: to seeing the outcome of the work that we are

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Speaker 3: doing now to grow our workforce and to fill those

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Speaker 3: vacancy so that we continue to build and support our

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Speaker 3: schools in responding to the needs of young people.

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Speaker 2: And is there going to be further consultation from this point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, so we've already got consultation scheduled so the

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Speaker 3: Youth Voice crew this week, which was pre planned because

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Speaker 3: they identified this as one of their priority pieces of work.

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Speaker 3: I'll be out at Casarina Senior College and you know,

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Speaker 3: meeting with all principals next week and extend to them

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Speaker 3: we're happy to be in all of their schools having

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Speaker 3: the conversations with young people. And then we're with COGSO

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Speaker 3: again in a few weeks, and we have regular quarterly

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Speaker 3: meetings with an All the Territory Principles Association as well,

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Speaker 3: so continuing to test our thinking and talking to them.

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Speaker 3: You know, they play an important role of ensuring that

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Speaker 3: we are talking to a diverse representation of our principles

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Speaker 3: and our schools right across the Northern Territory. So we

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Speaker 3: will continue to have conversations.

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Speaker 1: Darren, Just finally, is this model is, you know, is

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Speaker 1: what we're moving towards? Is it something that the Minister

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Speaker 1: for Education is supportive of.

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Speaker 3: Well. I know our Minister for Education is very supportive

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Speaker 3: of us doing whatever it takes to support all young

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Speaker 3: people to access quality education. She is aware of the

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Speaker 3: work we've done to ensure we have strong regional presence

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Speaker 3: in our in each of our regions, no resources, closest

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Speaker 3: positions to the young people that they support, and so

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Speaker 3: we'll continue to have conversations with our minister as we

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Speaker 3: you know, feedback as we're doing all these consultations on

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Speaker 3: the ground of what we are hearing.

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Speaker 1: Well Education Department Executive Director of Inclusion and Engagement Services

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Speaker 1: are Darren. I really appreciate your time this morning. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate the fact that you fronted up and had a

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Speaker 1: discussion with us about this situation.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie. Thank you for your time and the

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Speaker 3: opportunity to talk in greater detail.

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Speaker 2: Thank you,