1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Daily Os. It is Wednesday, 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: the sixteenth of March. A massive decision was handed down 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: in Australia's Federal Court yesterday. It's got to do with 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: the duty of care. An environment minister owes to kids 5 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: from climate change or to be revealed in our deep dive. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: But first, Zara, take me through the headlines this morning. 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: What's going on in Ukraine? 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: A convoy of over one hundred and sixty private vehicles 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: has left the Ukrainian city of Maripolin, what's believed to 10 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: be the first successful evacuation since Russian troops encircled the 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: city around two weeks ago. A local ceasfire has been 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: held between Russia and Ukraine, allowing the convoy to leave. 13 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: There have been several failed attempts of humanitarian evacuation corridors 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: over the last week. 15 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 1: One hundred sailors from the US Navy have arrived in 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: Queensland to assist the state with flood recovery. Speaking to 17 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: The Today Show yesterday, Commanding Officer Captain Albert Alcron said, 18 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: we provide manpower, maintenance and logistics support which we will 19 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 1: specifically coordinate with the Australian Defense Force counterparts to determine 20 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: where to best employ our crew. 21 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 2: Yesterday, wa Premier Mark McGowan announced households in the state 22 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 2: will receive ten additional free rapid antigen tests on top 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: of the five already supplied. McGowan confirmed the free tests 24 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: have been provided as a result of the increase in 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: living expenses, namely the rising prices of petrol. The announcement 26 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: comes to the state is expected to reach its peak 27 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: in COVID nineteen cases this week. 28 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: And today's good news Australia's armor of the World Wildlife 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: Funds the WWF have purchased and retired commercial fishing licenses 30 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: to create one hundred thousand square kilometers of net free 31 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: zone in the Northern Great Barrier Reef between Cape Flattery 32 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: and the Torres Strait. This is going to allow doogongs, 33 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: inshore dolphins and turtles to roam the area without commercial nets. 34 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: Sam, there was big news yesterday. It was about the 35 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: Federal Court and it really mattered to our audience as 36 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of young people. It was about the 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: fact that the Court found that the Environment Minister does 38 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 2: not owe children a duty of care to protect them 39 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 2: from climate change. 40 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie. Today's ruling is devastating to hear 41 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 3: and makes me really, really angry. It makes me angry 42 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,239 Speaker 3: that we had to take it to the Federal Court 43 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: in the first place to ask it to be legislated 44 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 3: into Australian climate law. That the Environment Minister has a 45 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: duty of care. I feel like that's something that should 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:39,679 Speaker 3: be accepted. But here we were, and then it made 47 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: me really angry that we won, but the Environment Minister appealed, 48 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: and now makes me even more angry that the verdict 49 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 3: has come down against us. Me and all the other litigants. 50 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 3: We've given this fight everything, and all I can say 51 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 3: is that no matter what the verdict was, we're not 52 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 3: giving up. Our lawyers are going to review the verdict 53 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 3: in the coming weeks and will have more to say 54 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 3: on the chances of an appeal. But either way, we'll 55 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 3: be on the streets, We'll be mobilizing in the flat 56 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 3: for climate justice, and we weren't back down until our 57 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 3: demands are met. Because we're not fooled by empty, useless rhetoric. 58 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 3: We're not fooled by what ifs and useless promises. We 59 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 3: know what the world needs. We know what the most 60 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 3: vulnerable countries need and we won't stop until our demands 61 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: to met. 62 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: That was and Jarlie Sharma speaking to TDA yesterday. And 63 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 2: Jarlie is one of the eight teenagers who took Environment 64 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 2: Minister Susan Lee to court last year, and that was 65 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: to seek to stop her from approving an expansion to 66 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: a coal mine. They argued the Environment Minister had a 67 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 2: duty of care to Australian children to consider the consequences 68 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: of climate change and the effect of the coal mine 69 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 2: on the risk of climate related injury or death in 70 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: their lifetime. In July of last year they won their case. 71 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: It was a very big deal. But yesterday the minister 72 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 2: won an appeal. Now, Sam legal process can be a 73 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: hard one to follow, talk us through the timeline of 74 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: this case. 75 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: So this really all began with those eight teenagers and 76 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: they were supported by an eighty six year old nun, 77 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: sister Bridgid Arthur. The reason why she supported them in 78 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: this case is that to bring an action in the 79 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: court you need somebody over the age of eighteen, and 80 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,040 Speaker 1: the sister nominated herself to be there over eighteen representative 81 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: in this case. And this all happened in July twenty 82 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,600 Speaker 1: twenty one. There they sought what's called an injunction, and 83 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: that's when you bring an order to the court to 84 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: stop an illegal act before it occurs. So here they 85 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: argued that the Environment Minister, Susan Lee, would be committing 86 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: an illegal act if she approved an expansion to the 87 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: Vickery coal mine, because, as you mentioned at the start, 88 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: there's this idea that the Minister has a duty of 89 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: care to consider the climate consequences for children, or at 90 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: least that's what they were arguing to the court. They 91 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: sought this injunction in the Federal court. That's not particularly unusual, 92 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: and the Justice rejected the injunction. But crucially, the Justice 93 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: agreed that the general principle should stand that the Minister 94 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: for the Environment had a duty of care to children 95 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: to consider climate consequences when she approved projects. So to 96 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: kind of break that down a little bit, the Justice 97 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: didn't agree that in this particular case an injunction was warranted, 98 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: but generally agreed that there should be a principle that 99 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: a duty of care is owed to kids. This was 100 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: a really big deal. I remember when we covered it 101 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,599 Speaker 1: on TDA in the middle of last year. It was 102 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: quite a large decision covered all over the world. It 103 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: set a really interesting precedent in this space. 104 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: And how so how did it set an interesting precedent. 105 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: It was the first time that it was really recognized 106 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: by a court that there was a duty owed by 107 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: a minister for the environment to think about the generations 108 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: to come after them. This sense of climate impacts having 109 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: material health impacts on future generations as a factor in 110 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: the decisions of government hadn't really been articulated by court. 111 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: Until then, and it didn't last long. 112 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: It didn't mister appealed the decision. Again, not unusual in 113 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: the circumstances, and when you disagree with the decision you 114 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: can kind of go up a level in courts, and 115 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: that's what happened here. The minister appealed to the full 116 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: Court and we got the result yesterday. 117 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 2: So what were the grounds for that appeal? What reasoning 118 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: did ministerly have for objecting to the suggestion that she 119 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: had a duty of care for children? I can say 120 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 2: very confidently that the people in our comments section did 121 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: not agree with the minister. 122 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: It's a pretty complex legal argument, but if we're to 123 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: really boil it down, What the government argued was that 124 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,279 Speaker 1: the minister's powers are set out by laws, and they're 125 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: set out by laws made by a democratically elected government, 126 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: and the laws allow the minister some movement in deciding 127 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: the costs and benefits of a proposal, almost recognizing that 128 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: with every proposal there's going to be winners and losers. 129 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: The law doesn't require her to consider the cost specifically 130 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: for children. And this is ultimately what they argued for 131 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: the court. It was that you can't narrow in what 132 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: you need to focus on more broadly than focused on 133 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: the costs and benefits for the society that you represent. 134 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: That was the kind of high level philosophical argument that 135 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: they put forward. There was a practical argument too, that 136 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 1: the impacts of this particular coal mine on climate change 137 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: was so small that it didn't warrant a material effect 138 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: on kids' health in the future. 139 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: The full Federal Court found in favor of the minister, 140 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: and so that by nature overturned the original decision and 141 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: rejected the idea of a MINISTERI or duty of care. 142 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: What was their reasoning so, and perhaps. 143 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: The only good news from the verdict. The court came 144 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: out pretty strongly and said it wasn't their place to 145 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: decide whether climate change was a threat or not. They 146 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: said that that's already been decided, that it clearly is 147 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: a threat to our society and future generations of human beings. 148 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: But they also said that it's a key policy question 149 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: and it's an appropriate one for a government to consider, 150 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: not necessarily for a court to weigh in on the 151 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: duties that a minister owes is to the people who 152 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: voted them in and their relationship to Australian children was 153 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: a little bit too far of a stretch for the 154 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: court to warrant establishing a pretty powerful duty of care 155 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: that almost every policy area would probably have to follow 156 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: suit in taking into account. They were pretty clear about 157 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: the court's role in this situation, and they basically said 158 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: that because of the argument that the coal mine itself 159 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't contribute that much to overall climate change, they couldn't 160 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: see enough there to draw a line to enshrining a 161 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: duty of care for kids. 162 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 2: And who we spoke to earlier continues to be a 163 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 2: passionate advocate for the environment. What other options does she 164 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: and the other teenagers have after this decision? 165 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: So the appeal if they went down that process would 166 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: be in Australia's High Court, the ultimate judicial authority there. 167 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: Whatever says goes that is the final stop before the 168 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: case is laid to rest. We don't know yet from 169 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,959 Speaker 1: Anglie's camp whether they're going to be pursuing that path. 170 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: As you could hear in the interview, it's very fresh, 171 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: so we'll have to wait and see if they adopt 172 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: that appeal. What we can expect from Angali and the 173 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: seven other participants in this case is that they're going 174 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: to call on political leaders to step up and act 175 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: on climate change, calls that will be heard very loudly 176 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: in the lead up to the upcoming federal election. 177 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 2: That's all we have time for today. Thank you for listening. 178 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: As always, if you could leave a review or rate 179 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: us on Spotify, it would mean the world to us. 180 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: Have a great Wednesday.