Speaker 1: Ruby Frankie and her husband Kevin began posting on the
Speaker 1: website YouTube dot com in twenty and fifteen. They posted
Speaker 1: family activities, tips, birthday parties, and cooking together as a family.
Speaker 1: They became an online sensation. Over the years, criticism began
Speaker 1: to mount on the way Ruby and Kevin were disciplining
Speaker 1: their kids. In twenty twenty four, Ruby, along with her
Speaker 1: business part of Jody Hildebrandt, were charged with aggravated child abuse.
Speaker 1: Oh God, this g is the rise and fall of
Speaker 1: Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrandt. I don't know this story.
Speaker 1: A hot summer morning in Utah, a young, blondhaired boy
Speaker 1: knocks on a door. He's extremely malnourished and needed urgent help.
Speaker 2: Oh God.
Speaker 1: He has duct tape around his wrists and ankles, a
Speaker 1: bloodstained shirt, and he is extremely After the door is
Speaker 1: not answered right away, he begins to walk away when
Speaker 1: an old man answers the door and calls out for
Speaker 1: him to come back. The man had mobility issues and
Speaker 1: it took him some time to answer. There weren't a
Speaker 1: lot of kids in the community he lived in, so
Speaker 1: he thought it was a surprise to see him there.
Speaker 2: For that poor kids. Well, going to get help.
Speaker 1: And then the closest house was one hundred yards away,
Speaker 1: not right next to each other, and he knew that
Speaker 1: a single woman lived there. Her name was Jodie Hildebrandt.
Speaker 1: The young boy needed the police. The boy said his
Speaker 1: name and his age. The man called nine one one.
Speaker 1: I just had a twelve year old boy show up
Speaker 1: at my front door asking for help, and he is said,
Speaker 1: he just came out from the neighbor's house. He is
Speaker 1: emaciated and dehydrated. He's got tape around his legs. He's
Speaker 1: hungry and thirsty. He has duckt around his ankles. There's
Speaker 1: saws around him.
Speaker 2: Oh god.
Speaker 1: The man's wife can be heard on the phone too.
Speaker 1: She is interjecting, saying they need urgent help. The man
Speaker 1: is choking back tears. The man's wife gets some food
Speaker 1: and he eats right away. The boy he's extremely happy
Speaker 1: to be getting some food. The police and ambulance arrived
Speaker 1: to rescue the young boy. He had severe wounds and
Speaker 1: it didn't look like he had been He would have
Speaker 1: lasted lasted much longer if he hadn't escaped and found
Speaker 1: this man. The boy had five other siblings and was
Speaker 1: the son of famous YouTube personality Ruby Frankie. Her brand
Speaker 1: had changed quite a lot since she first started. When
Speaker 1: she began her YouTube channel, it was fun, it was vibrant,
Speaker 1: and it was personal. She updated everyone on the day
Speaker 1: to day lives of their Mormon family. There were eight
Speaker 1: people in the family, and so the channel was called
Speaker 1: eight Passengers. They soon had over two million YouTube subscribers.
Speaker 1: It was a simple formula and it worked. But sadly,
Speaker 1: as time went on, Ruby became a very different person
Speaker 1: and believed her youngest son and daughter had been possessed
Speaker 1: by the devil.
Speaker 2: Oh god.
Speaker 1: The online world had seen her demise in real time,
Speaker 1: and the online world were worried.
Speaker 2: What year was this?
Speaker 1: Sorry? So this was in twenty fifteen when it all
Speaker 1: came crashing down? Really sorry, twenty fifteen. Yeah, they started
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh okay, but what year was this that he
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four? Oh shit, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and when they were charged.
Speaker 2: Really recently yeah wow? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: So Ruby became a different person, believed her youngest son
Speaker 1: and our daughter had been possessed by the devil. The
Speaker 1: online world were really worried about her and the kids,
Speaker 1: and the safety of the kids. Her videos became more
Speaker 1: and more about discipline and how she would treat her children.
Speaker 1: This g is the story of Ruby Frankie and Jody
Speaker 1: hildebrand Now a lot of people kind of talk about
Speaker 1: Ruby Frankie. They always s Ruby Frankie, but it's important
Speaker 1: for me to mention Jody Hildebrandt in the same story.
Speaker 1: I said to you the other day, I want to
Speaker 1: do a story about Jody Hildebrandt, And you thought, I said,
Speaker 1: Joe hilder.
Speaker 2: Brand Is Can you talk about Joel He's an Australian
Speaker 2: writer and kind of political commentation media. He's a journeys Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: media commentator.
Speaker 1: Conservative as yes.
Speaker 2: Very conservative. I thought it was very funny that there
Speaker 2: was some I worked with him on Studio ten for
Speaker 2: I thought it was very funny that there was a
Speaker 2: new documentary about him.
Speaker 1: He had done anything, so he's very conservative. A friend
Speaker 1: of mine, Declan fe had this podcast called The Sweetest
Speaker 1: Plum with Nick Maxwell, and if I could get it,
Speaker 1: I will play a bit at the end of Nick
Speaker 1: Maxwell going on and on about Joe hildebrand Very very funny.
Speaker 1: He just kind of it's about how much he doesn't
Speaker 1: like him, and it is one of the funniest rants
Speaker 1: I've ever heard. If I can play a bit, I'll
Speaker 1: try and play a bit at the end because it's very,
Speaker 1: very funny. So gee, I didn't know much about Ruby
Speaker 1: Frankie before I started watching a documentary on Disney Plus
Speaker 1: for those in Australia, called The Fall of Ruby Frankie.
Speaker 2: Disney Plus I have always had a subscription too, because
Speaker 2: of course that is where Hamilton is.
Speaker 1: There are a few documentaries that have been released on
Speaker 1: the dark side of social media and in fact, kind
Speaker 1: of the coultish nature of TikTok.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was that TikTok Dances one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was yeah, and that was a
Speaker 1: big thing. I think there were Mormon as well, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure. And also people do that.
Speaker 2: As a treat. Don't don't go and watch that listeners,
Speaker 2: We'll do it as a story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you want to go viral on TikTok is,
Speaker 1: I'm cool with it.
Speaker 2: Me. You're happy if I go viral on TikTok.
Speaker 1: Do you dance recording?
Speaker 2: Well, okay, I get up in a dance.
Speaker 1: Are recording recording? No?
Speaker 2: I mean the oh I can't get up and do it,
Speaker 2: so I'll just do it like a hand dance.
Speaker 1: You look really happy when you did that. Can I
Speaker 1: just say that if you're watching YouTube, you go down
Speaker 1: for because Jesus did a viral dance. We don't know
Speaker 1: what we call the viral before it's even.
Speaker 2: Jesus virals bacterial somehow.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know about vologo families in particular of
Speaker 1: Mormon faith, which are quite a few in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: when this story actually starts. Mormons are the principal branch
Speaker 1: of the Latter day Saint Movement, which is a collection
Speaker 1: of independent churches, all originating from Christianity. Was started by
Speaker 1: Jesus Christer Smith in upstate New York in the eighteen twenties.
Speaker 2: I can tell you the whole story about it.
Speaker 1: And some in the United States alone there are over
Speaker 1: six million Mormons. Mormons believe that the christ Church was
Speaker 1: restored through Joseph Smith and is guided by living prophets
Speaker 1: and apostles.
Speaker 2: And they believe that Joseph Smith found some golden plates
Speaker 2: he buried under a tree on a hill in his backyard,
Speaker 2: and that God had written on these plates, and it
Speaker 2: was like a third part of the Bible exactly, and
Speaker 2: he dug up the golden plates and told them, told
Speaker 2: everyone about them, but wouldn't show anyone.
Speaker 1: Believe in the Bible and other books of scripture. Joseph
Speaker 1: Smith is going, definitely, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'll just copy them onto normal paper and you just
Speaker 2: got to believe me that they were on golden.
Speaker 1: Plates, such as the Book of Mormon, the Book of
Speaker 1: They have a unique view. They have a unique view
Speaker 1: of cosmology and believe that all people are literal spirit
Speaker 1: children of God. Mormons believe that returning to God requires
Speaker 1: following the example of Jesus Christ and accepting his atonement
Speaker 1: through repentance and ordinances such as baptism.
Speaker 2: I'm going to baptize her, going to be there in
Speaker 2: God's glory. Do you regret doing this story?
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Ruby Griffiths was born on January eighteen, nineteen ninety two.
Speaker 1: It's not very old.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and born well, I just say that because I
Speaker 1: because anyone. And born and raised in Utah. She was
Speaker 1: raised as a conservative Mormon, one of five siblings, and
Speaker 1: this influenced the way she would live her life, Wanting
Speaker 1: to have a large family when she grew older, Ruby
Speaker 1: Griffiths met Kevin Frankie at the age of eighteen at
Speaker 1: a hot dog stand.
Speaker 2: And with he Mormon as well. Yeah, so Kevin is
Speaker 2: the name of Elder Price, Kevin Price. It's actually really
Speaker 2: good because it runs with heaven.
Speaker 4: Ah.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a really good music.
Speaker 2: All the book woman, it is really good. I know
Speaker 2: every word. I'm genuinely like, I know. It doesn't seem
Speaker 2: like I'm holding back, but I'm holding back so many
Speaker 2: quotes when you say that.
Speaker 1: So Ruby and Kevin fell in love at this hot
Speaker 1: dog stand right away.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: In December two thousand, not long after they met, they
Speaker 1: got married. They were both from large Mormon families in Utah.
Speaker 1: Kevin was hard working. He worked his way up to
Speaker 1: become a professor at civil engineering at the BRIDGERD. Young University.
Speaker 1: Kevin was also.
Speaker 2: Brigham Young.
Speaker 1: Young Brigham.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that from the musical.
Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen. Ruby Frankie was a stay at home
Speaker 1: mum of six kids in Springville, Utah. Sick kids or
Speaker 1: a beautiful young family. Ruby's blonde has a huge smile
Speaker 1: and really has a lot of like. She has a
Speaker 1: real charismatic personality. You can see this through watching the YouTube.
Speaker 1: Kevin was a handsome but very hands off dad. All
Speaker 1: of the kids themselves could be out of a catalog.
Speaker 1: All the photos you see if then they've got these
Speaker 1: big smiles on their face. They are all living this
Speaker 1: American dream.
Speaker 2: I love that is a handsome but hands off describing
Speaker 2: as a parent of a father, I suppose as a
Speaker 2: YouTube father, it probably does.
Speaker 1: They all went to church on Sundays, had a golden
Speaker 1: retriever and a beautiful home.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 1: They had from the outside a perfect life, living the
Speaker 1: Mormon American dream. In twenty fifteen, Ruby around thirty three
Speaker 1: at the time, started the She Couldn't have been. In
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, Ruby started the YouTube channel eight Passengers. It
Speaker 1: was a vlog of their day to day life, all
Speaker 1: being passages of the ride of life. To bring joy
Speaker 1: and inspire others. They would film going on trips, attending church,
Speaker 1: or just having fun around the house, plus Ruby's tips
Speaker 1: on parenting. She had a strict structure and people really
Speaker 1: seemed to relate to that, with religion being a huge
Speaker 1: part of what they were watching. It was a wholesome
Speaker 1: load of content. Really, it was really wholesome and you
Speaker 1: could you really kind of felt like you knew them
Speaker 1: through the screen. The documentary I watched shows the dynamic
Speaker 1: between Ruby and care in a pretty interesting light. As
Speaker 1: time goes on, you can see that he is growing
Speaker 1: pretty tired and uncomfortable with having a camera pointed in
Speaker 1: his face as soon as he gets home from work.
Speaker 1: You can see her getting frustrated with him when he
Speaker 1: can't when he can't say like a simple line to camera.
Speaker 1: She gets really frustrated with him as time goes on,
Speaker 1: but he does persist with it.
Speaker 2: Because for her it's work. Yeah, a full time jobs.
Speaker 2: He's coming home from having worked for.
Speaker 1: Work. That's right. Ruby really loved it. She dove right
Speaker 1: into this new lease on life. She could add to
Speaker 1: the family income doing what she loved. She was good
Speaker 1: at it too. In the first year, Ruby posted one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty videos of her and her family and
Speaker 1: it was pretty successful right away. It was fun at first,
Speaker 1: and the kids were loving it. They were showing off
Speaker 1: to the camera, and they were becoming known in their community.
Speaker 1: Kevin Ruby's husband remarked in the documentary that she wanted
Speaker 1: to be seen as the perfect mum, and you can
Speaker 1: certainly see this. Kevin was in front of the camera
Speaker 1: as much as Ruby and the kids. But the family
Speaker 1: are all kind of childlike in the early videos. They
Speaker 1: play pranks on each other and genuinely seem to like
Speaker 1: kind of have a lot of fun together. Seeing this
Speaker 1: nuclear family, no one would ever guess how dark a
Speaker 1: story like this could go.
Speaker 2: God Like, there are a few things in the world
Speaker 2: I would be less interested in watching that family.
Speaker 1: No, I know, I know, but that's a thing, Like
Speaker 1: it's not I'm not the target audience. No, but I
Speaker 1: think now you look at like there are people that
Speaker 1: I've seen recently sell out the Palais Theater, the huge
Speaker 1: three thousand seater theater in Melbourne, that I go, Holy hell,
Speaker 1: I've never heard of that person. You look at their Instagram,
Speaker 1: you go, it's twenty million followers. You know, they've got
Speaker 1: their audience. And I think this is what this was.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, Like I'm not a family, I'm not.
Speaker 2: A parent, normal man, you know, nor American.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, you know. Of well, Ruby was the star.
Speaker 1: The viewers love the kids, and they all had their favorites.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like the Brady Bunch, I guess in
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: It's like watching a TV show, but absolutely.
Speaker 1: It's YouTube's never been the thing that I go to watch,
Speaker 1: but so many people do love it.
Speaker 2: I suppose like this is not that all that different
Speaker 2: to like the concept behind their Kardashians. The only difference
Speaker 2: is that was a TV show, this YouTube.
Speaker 1: I don't forget to make it pass on YouTube as well.
Speaker 2: Don't forget to subscribe to us on YouTube and you
Speaker 2: can see the beautiful dance I did before.
Speaker 1: Not everyone loved them, of course, the comments started asking
Speaker 1: about consent of the kids being in the film. Should
Speaker 1: they be posting their kids on social media? They're not
Speaker 1: old enough to be making these kinds of decisions. Now,
Speaker 1: the kids do feature in the documentary I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: so well, we use kind of a few of their names,
Speaker 1: but not all of them, the only the ones.
Speaker 2: If they speak in their interviewed.
Speaker 1: But one. But we'll try not to use all of
Speaker 1: their names because some of them didn't consent and it
Speaker 1: wasn't their choice to be part of the story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I find that really interesting. I always find it
Speaker 1: interesting when your family will choose whether or not to
Speaker 1: post their children's face on social media. And that's different
Speaker 1: in every you know, Diggs did not have a choice
Speaker 1: to not just post his face NonStop.
Speaker 2: You use an abuse his shay.
Speaker 1: We're talking about Ruby Frankie's story on the use and
Speaker 1: abuse of digs.
Speaker 2: You use and abuse Diggs's image for your personal and
Speaker 2: financial gain.
Speaker 1: Financial let me tell you make some money. Of fact.
Speaker 1: What's interesting about this too is Ruby is filming her
Speaker 1: kids doing absolutely everything. She's filming them like brass shopping,
Speaker 1: just absolutely everything. So every every part of their lives
Speaker 1: was on display. Every single thing is content and there
Speaker 1: are favorites too with videos with one of her kids. Chad,
Speaker 1: who was fourteen, did really really well.
Speaker 2: Chad is the most American nemage, it really is, and
Speaker 2: Chad Hunter is another like Hunter and Chad.
Speaker 1: If Chad was in a video, it would do a
Speaker 1: lot better than others. Why he kind of liked his
Speaker 1: newfound fame too. He's a very handsome young boy with
Speaker 1: blonde hair and everything, looks like an American kid. He's
Speaker 1: getting lots of attention from girls and he's lapping it up.
Speaker 1: But that only lasts so long. There is some more
Speaker 1: questionable content, like Chad texting a girl and his parents
Speaker 1: reading out the text for everyone, embarrassing him. In front
Speaker 1: of the whole family.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: You kind of understand a little more if this was
Speaker 1: contained to the house, But to put this out there
Speaker 1: two millions of describers is very different. In twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: YouTube removed personalized ads on kid content, so instead creators
Speaker 1: did more sponsored content. Eight Passengers did all kinds of
Speaker 1: deals with companies selling vacuum cleaners, rugs, nappies, anything. In
Speaker 1: one year, they were said to have made over two
Speaker 1: million dollars from you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: As time went on, we are doing this podcast wrong. Hey,
Speaker 1: we're not yet, not with your dancing. As time went on,
Speaker 1: Ruby spoke out more and more about her discipline. When
Speaker 1: one of her kids left a sock in the garden,
Speaker 1: Ruby shouted at him on camera, making him do press ups.
Speaker 1: She threatened another child that she's going to rip the
Speaker 1: head off her teddy bear.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: As time went on, more people started commenting about discipline,
Speaker 1: making people many people like kind of making their own
Speaker 1: videos like other people like commenters making their own videos
Speaker 1: about it and going what the hell's going on with
Speaker 1: his family? Another one of the punishments with withholding food,
Speaker 1: kids would lose the privilege to eat. Oh god, when
Speaker 1: her youngest daughter forgot to pack lunch one day, she
Speaker 1: didn't take the lunch to her. She made a video instead,
Speaker 1: staying that she needed to learn a lesson and next
Speaker 1: time she won't forget to pack it.
Speaker 2: Oh dear.
Speaker 1: So the school actually called her like, you've got to
Speaker 1: bring a child. I'm not doing it. The video went
Speaker 1: viral and more speculation began to build online.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like that one didn't go viral for
Speaker 2: a good reason.
Speaker 1: Was she being too harsh with her kids?
Speaker 2: Not like my dance?
Speaker 1: Is anyone checking in on her kids? Is there a
Speaker 1: welfare check? Chad is soon referred to as the trouble
Speaker 1: maker in the household. Chad isn't in the videos after
Speaker 1: a while, and Ruby explains openly that that's because he's
Speaker 1: being punished. He is sent to wilderness camp for wayward
Speaker 1: teens to be disciplined for an accumulation of bad behavior
Speaker 1: the next video. In the next year, in a video,
Speaker 1: Chad is back in one of the videos, and the
Speaker 1: fifteen year old mentions that he has only recently been
Speaker 1: given his bedroom back and for the past seven months
Speaker 1: had been sleeping on a bean bag in the living room.
Speaker 1: As punished. Once seven months because he had pranked his
Speaker 1: little brother by pretending they were going to Disneyland.
Speaker 2: So wait, the parents are allowed to do pranks for
Speaker 2: content for YouTube, but if the kid tries to feel
Speaker 2: prank o lucky.
Speaker 1: A week after the video was posted, a change dot
Speaker 1: org petition was filed, which gained almost twenty thousand signatures.
Speaker 1: It demanded that there should be an investigation into Ruby, Frankie,
Speaker 1: and eight passengers, but even though the police were aware
Speaker 1: of the channel, there was no actual evidence of abuse.
Speaker 1: There was a big drop off in subscribers during this
Speaker 1: time because people started.
Speaker 4: Going he was taking his room was taken away, I'm
Speaker 4: not supporting it anymore, and a lot of the supporters
Speaker 4: started to pull away because they didn't want to be
Speaker 4: associated with the allegations.
Speaker 1: So the sponsors and everything soarted to pull away. Then
Speaker 1: Ruby started disabling comments and all of the videos, and
Speaker 1: even got her lawyer to send cease and assist letters
Speaker 1: to any of the people negatively vlogging about her and
Speaker 1: her family. Ruby and Kevin did an interview with Insider.
Speaker 1: In the interview, Kevin stated that the video was for
Speaker 1: all to see as an inspirational message of how Chad
Speaker 1: had overcome the challenges that he'd faced. In twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: Ruby and Kevin posted a video saying that their children
Speaker 1: are eight and ten years old, had been selfish for
Speaker 1: a long time, and that year wouldn't not be receiving
Speaker 1: any Christmas presents. They had to watch their siblings open
Speaker 1: presence on Christmas mornings forgot nothing themselves.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's awful.
Speaker 1: Ruby stated that she had tried a lot of things
Speaker 1: before this and had to go through with this as
Speaker 1: a last resort.
Speaker 2: No, you didn't have to do that at all.
Speaker 1: Despite the escalation in punishments, they were posting less and less.
Speaker 1: Then the channel went quiet. Four months later, Ruby started
Speaker 1: a new channel called Connecting Connections Classroom. Ruby had had
Speaker 1: a makeover and she was now calling herself a mental
Speaker 1: fitness coach. She was preaching and talking about living in truth.
Speaker 2: Oh my, this isn't even a poor drupee. This is
Speaker 2: just something I hate say.
Speaker 1: It's my truth speaking truth.
Speaker 2: I'm like, there is the truth and there is falsity.
Speaker 2: There's no my truth.
Speaker 1: Ruby wouldn't now give strict parenting advice to Mormon mothers.
Speaker 1: Here we meet Jody Hildebrandt. Jody was a licensed clinical
Speaker 1: mental health counselor in Utah. She got her license to
Speaker 1: practice in two thousand and three and then became a
Speaker 1: clinical counselor in two thousand and five. Her credentials alone
Speaker 1: lent to her ability to be able to understand humans
Speaker 1: and their triggers. She was doing really well professionally when
Speaker 1: she started earning around thirty thousand dollars per month and
Speaker 1: founded a life coaching and counseling organization called Connections Classroom
Speaker 1: thirty grand a month.
Speaker 2: We are doing Yeah, true, you're very rich because of
Speaker 2: Digs dix Is modeling.
Speaker 1: The program aligned with what Ruby felt was the correct
Speaker 1: teachings for her kids, the premise that parents should have
Speaker 1: a strict moral principle with extreme accountability. She was working
Speaker 1: with couples and families as part of practice with addiction
Speaker 1: and struggles in their relationships. In Jody's teaching, she taught
Speaker 1: humility and honesty and the fact that a person cannot
Speaker 1: achieve a true connection with another human being if they
Speaker 1: are in distortion. Distortion mean means addiction, hobbies, entertainment, living
Speaker 1: in lust, even being sexually attracted to your spouse is
Speaker 1: a problem.
Speaker 2: What what what? What do he meant to be?
Speaker 1: What do you mean Jody's right? Believe in Jody.
Speaker 2: Please, You're not meant to be.
Speaker 1: Or to sexually attracted only just.
Speaker 2: Not horny, don't cheated, rivalry, Mormon community.
Speaker 1: My goal feeling like you're not enough. It could be
Speaker 1: really anything like all these distortions. The other thing was
Speaker 1: that if you're in distortion, you're trying to manipulate other people.
Speaker 1: Jody then asserts that every single person in a distortion
Speaker 1: needs to go through her program. She encouraged her clients
Speaker 1: to get family members to join her sessions.
Speaker 2: She been like, if you're finding your husband a bit sexy,
Speaker 2: come and pay me lots of money and I'll change
Speaker 2: that for you.
Speaker 1: I think it's really buying into, you know, the commandments
Speaker 1: of you know, like Christianity and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like using and abusing those like take these.
Speaker 1: Vulnerable people absolutely. She would then make those family members
Speaker 1: call out any distortions that they saw in their partner.
Speaker 1: It would then create a divide and she would capitalize
Speaker 1: off this. She didn't see it of public shaming. Her
Speaker 1: teachings were absolute. If anyone would disagree with her, she
Speaker 1: would just say they would distort it, and if they
Speaker 1: disagreed with her teachings, she would say they were abusive.
Speaker 1: Jodie also had a podcast, and Ruby and Hurt started
Speaker 1: working together to promote that and another show, a YouTube
Speaker 1: show called Mums of Truth.
Speaker 2: Oh god, Okay, I lied before when I say there's
Speaker 2: not many things I would want to watch less than
Speaker 2: the family video, it's that I would less.
Speaker 1: Jody, who was thirteen years older than Ruby, was no sense,
Speaker 1: no nonsense, and very strict. Also no sense, I think.
Speaker 1: As well as Jody and Ruby working together professionally, she
Speaker 1: was also hired in twenty nineteen to coach Chad. She
Speaker 1: would coach him through his behavioral issues she believes he
Speaker 1: had many. Jody also provided couple's therapy therapy for Ruby
Speaker 1: and Kevin. Then in twenty twenty, she moved in to
Speaker 1: live with them. Jody, did we totally normal stuff? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Would say that.
Speaker 2: Six kids and a married couple, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Ruby had started talking about Jody's teachings a lot more
Speaker 1: on the eight Passengers channel. She was also a member
Speaker 1: of the Church of Latter day Saints. It was Jody's
Speaker 1: recommendation that Chad sleep on the beanbag so Jody actually
Speaker 1: suggests yes. But in twenty twelve, so going back a
Speaker 1: little bit, Jody's therapist's license was revoked. She had spoken
Speaker 1: openly about one of her patient's mental health without their permission.
Speaker 1: This patient both publicly publicly on YouTube. This patient was
Speaker 1: well known for whistleblowing about sexual abuse in the Mormon Church.
Speaker 1: He and his wife had booked into Jody's sessions to
Speaker 1: work on their marriage. Jody began convincing his wife that
Speaker 1: he had abused children himself. Jody also claimed that her
Speaker 1: husband had an addiction to pornography, something that she would
Speaker 1: always claim with people. He was thrown out of his home.
Speaker 1: Jody even convinced him to see her to give her sorry,
Speaker 1: to give her thousands and thousands of dollars before going
Speaker 1: around telling other therapists about him, so he could only
Speaker 1: work with her. So, oh my god, she had ruined
Speaker 1: his life and his marriage. And this was not the
Speaker 1: only time she did this. Another man in the group,
Speaker 1: a successful businessman, was made to feel like he was
Speaker 1: a monster because he was compelled to look twice whenever
Speaker 1: he saw a pretty woman. The man had to move
Speaker 1: away from his family because he was a danger to society.
Speaker 2: Because he would find a woman to look at. It
Speaker 2: distorted Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: This was all about control and making people believe that
Speaker 1: they had to use her services. She was the only option,
Speaker 1: and she was the only one that could fix them.
Speaker 1: She was a master manipulator. She saw what nobody else saw.
Speaker 1: Apparently this pattern left a trail of devastated people. Kevin
Speaker 1: and Ruby did not know about this before she moved in.
Speaker 1: Kevin would later say that as soon as Jody was
Speaker 1: under their roof, strange things started happening. Apparently, the lights
Speaker 1: would flicker, floating objects, all kinds of things. Jody would
Speaker 1: also start having odd possession, a possession moment, so she would,
Speaker 1: like speaking, start speaking as the devil. She claimed that
Speaker 1: the devil wanted her, wanted basically her as the devil's bride.
Speaker 1: What the fuck are you talking about? The devil wanted
Speaker 1: to marry Jodie Hildebrns. Jody was okay. Jody would take
Speaker 1: care of Jody. Ruby would take care of Jody every
Speaker 1: single time. Then they had no choice but to sleep
Speaker 1: in the same bed together.
Speaker 2: No, sorry, what do you mean they had?
Speaker 1: They had no choice. We're about to care for Jody
Speaker 1: all the time so Ruby could take care of her.
Speaker 1: Kevin was confined to a room downstairs. He was then
Speaker 1: forbidden to talk to his wife. The only way he
Speaker 1: could communicate with Ruby was through Jody. By July twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two, Jody asked Kevin to move out of the
Speaker 1: home altogether because of his supposed pornography addiction.
Speaker 2: Jody asked, yes, Kevin to move out of his own time,
Speaker 2: away from his family where she lived.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 2: I you know what, this might be controversial. I don't
Speaker 2: like Jody. It's a controversial thing to say.
Speaker 1: You take that back. Well, welcome. Well, wait for Nick
Speaker 1: Maxwell at the end to talk to us about his
Speaker 1: hatred of Joe Bilderbred. It was their twenty second year
Speaker 1: of marriage at this point. Wow, they've been happily married
Speaker 1: up until recently. They didn't get divorced. They saw it
Speaker 1: as kind of a spiritual journey. Ruby told him that
Speaker 1: while both working on themselves, that they would try having
Speaker 1: no contact, and he honored it. She called it a
Speaker 1: no contract boundary and he had to respect her. Kevin
Speaker 1: saw it as mending the relationship, and he believed he
Speaker 1: was in distortion. Kevin was the sole financial provider at
Speaker 1: this time when they stopped the eight passenger YouTube channel
Speaker 1: that resulted in losing ninety percent of their income that
Speaker 1: they had become used to. He took his job very seriously.
Speaker 1: After this, he had to provide for his family, even
Speaker 1: though he did not have any contact with his family.
Speaker 1: Ruby would take care of the kids and he would
Speaker 1: work and pay all of the bills that Jody also
Speaker 1: lived in the house. Jesus Christ Ruby also said that
Speaker 1: he should not have contact with the children. He completely
Speaker 1: complied with that. It is pretty clear at this point
Speaker 1: that he was being manipulated in a pretty cult like fashion,
Speaker 1: so he.
Speaker 2: Was also under her spell someone to.
Speaker 1: Do all of this, He is very complicit in all
Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, Chat had also been kicked out of
Speaker 1: the family home for having a girl over, but still
Speaker 1: had to pay nine hundred dollars a month for therapy
Speaker 1: with Jody.
Speaker 2: Fucking hell.
Speaker 1: Jody was isolating Ruby more and more. The youngest kids
Speaker 1: were now being homeschooled, and Ruby was spending a lot
Speaker 1: more time at Jody's five million dollars estate where two
Speaker 1: hundred miles away. Ruby was now Jody's business partner at Connections,
Speaker 1: where they also in a relationship. There has been a
Speaker 1: lot of speculation that they were They were pretty flirty
Speaker 1: with each other in videos and were now sleeping in
Speaker 1: the same bed.
Speaker 2: Very anti Mormon, very anti Mormon.
Speaker 1: The oldest daughter was living away university and was continually
Speaker 1: contacted by concerned neighbors that her four siblings were being
Speaker 1: left at home alone for days on end while Ruby
Speaker 1: was away, and she ended up calling the police. When
Speaker 1: the police arrived, they saw that the kids were inside,
Speaker 1: but they wouldn't answer the door. They were terrified to
Speaker 1: Oh my.
Speaker 2: God, police, I'm thinking she kin'd of been born in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two. No, maybe maybe it was not in
Speaker 2: eighty two. Yeah, we's got kids at university and they
Speaker 2: married for twenty two years. No, no, it kin'd of been
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: Probably just made a little mistake there, so when.
Speaker 2: She would have got married when she was like thirteen,
Speaker 2: I'm sure that's wrong. My mass is famously.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, let me have a look right now.
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna have to change there the top of this.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, nineteen eighty two, you're absolutely correct.
Speaker 2: Change it. We've corrected it.
Speaker 1: Okay, we can I now mistakes, yes, and that's something we.
Speaker 2: Can and I would never make one.
Speaker 1: But unfind this you did. Police went back for so times,
Speaker 1: but the same thing kept happening over and over again.
Speaker 1: The kids just wouldn't enter the door. They couldn't get
Speaker 1: a search warrant because there was nothing wrong with leaving
Speaker 1: your kids at home in Utah. Apparently on the thirtieth
Speaker 1: of August twenty twenty three, my birthday. That's birthday to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for saying that.
Speaker 1: The second that youngest freed himself to go and get help,
Speaker 1: he walked across the hot desert's and barefoot to get help.
Speaker 1: He had told them that Jody and Ruby had tied
Speaker 1: them up and on his wounds, which went almost to
Speaker 1: the bone, they smeared, Kay Kayen is it kayene ka
Speaker 1: Kyenne Pepper, Oh my god, Oh my god. He told
Speaker 1: them that it was all his fault.
Speaker 2: Oh, the little boy said, it's my phone.
Speaker 1: They descended on Jody's home. Within moments, she was already
Speaker 1: on the phone to a lawyer. This is all in
Speaker 1: the documentary. They began searching the house. It was a
Speaker 1: concrete maze. In the middle of a dark cupboard, they
Speaker 1: found Ruby's nine year old daughter. Her head was shaved
Speaker 1: and she was staring at the floor. Oh god. Police
Speaker 1: tried to get her out to talk to her, but
Speaker 1: she wouldn't make eye contact. It took the police four
Speaker 1: hours to get her to leave the property.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: The other two children were found at a house of
Speaker 1: another connection's employee, and they had been their cleaning. In
Speaker 1: the documentary as well, there's a kind of a bunker
Speaker 1: room and the police can't get access to it, and
Speaker 1: Jodi says, I don't know the code. Shut up, yeap.
Speaker 1: So Ruby finally returned home to be arrested three years
Speaker 1: after she was first reported. They were charged with six
Speaker 1: counts of aggravated child abuse.
Speaker 2: So the word aggravated in that is pretty like yes. Really,
Speaker 2: child abuse itself is bad enough. If they're pointing out
Speaker 2: that it was aggravated.
Speaker 1: And they barely spoke at all, humming hymns instead.
Speaker 2: Oh yuck.
Speaker 1: The police also found Kevin, who said he hadn't seen
Speaker 1: his kids in over a year. He had no idea
Speaker 1: what had happened to the kids and why they're in
Speaker 1: such poor health. He just didn't understand. He had a
Speaker 1: call from the police to pick up his kids. It
Speaker 1: alarmed him right away. The police said the kids could
Speaker 1: be released to him, and Kevin agreed. He asked for
Speaker 1: a little more information and the police read him his rights.
Speaker 1: Kevin then felt really alarmed and cautious. They then started
Speaker 1: asking questions, but he was really unsure and on edge.
Speaker 1: When they explained what had happened, Kevin said it all
Speaker 1: sounded like a horror film. He had been told by
Speaker 1: Joji to leave the home and since then was not
Speaker 1: allowed to have contact with the kids and would need
Speaker 1: to still attend remote sessions with her to work through
Speaker 1: his porn addiction, which she told him. He how she
Speaker 1: told him he had. He still loved his wife and
Speaker 1: wanted everything to go back to the way it was.
Speaker 1: He wanted to fix his family and simply not be
Speaker 1: distorted anymore.
Speaker 2: So he really believed he was distorted. He wasn't saying like,
Speaker 2: I don't have a porn addiction. I don't. He was going, Oh,
Speaker 2: you're right, I must be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he believed it.
Speaker 2: Oh God.
Speaker 1: They asked who Jody was? Great question, I've got Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know everyone has that question, he said. He's She's
Speaker 1: honest and a life coach and a therapist. He had
Speaker 1: nothing but good things to say. He did not know
Speaker 1: that his kids were living at her house. The police
Speaker 1: tell him he won't be getting his kids now they're
Speaker 1: in state custody. When police arrived, they asked Jody about
Speaker 1: the panic room downstairs like I spoke about straight away,
Speaker 1: but claimed that she never used it and didn't have
Speaker 1: any access. One officer went down pressed one, two, three
Speaker 1: four and was let rite in.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: What they discover was a torture chamber where Jody and
Speaker 1: Ruby conducted everything. The panic room had a fall down bear,
Speaker 1: toilet dressings, adult diapers, and the pepper and honey concoction
Speaker 1: that I spoke about before. They also found a diary
Speaker 1: of documented torture.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: They were sent to a work in the blistering sun
Speaker 1: and documented that they belie leave the kid's word demonic.
Speaker 1: There is a lot more detail here about abuse, and
Speaker 1: I'm not going to go into a lot of it's
Speaker 1: in the documentary, but believe me, it's awful. Jody's niece Jesse,
Speaker 1: has since spoken about the harrowing abuse she experienced when
Speaker 1: she lived with Jody at the age of just sixteen.
Speaker 1: She was also tied up and isolated for up to
Speaker 1: twelve hours a day, Jody also claimed that Jesse was
Speaker 1: a porn addict. What Jody has had a lot of
Speaker 1: backing from the Mormon Church. Parents trust the church, and
Speaker 1: these claims were not believed at the time by Jesse god.
Speaker 1: In August twenty twenty three, Jody and Ruby were brought
Speaker 1: into police custody. They've both been hatching a plan to
Speaker 1: run away with the two young kids. Kevin told Ruby
Speaker 1: that they were in hospital. Ruby told him that it
Speaker 1: was just not necessary. That she thought the whole thing
Speaker 1: was a witch hunt and the devil was after her.
Speaker 1: Jody also didn't understand why she was being charged with abuse.
Speaker 1: At first, Ruby stood by Jody, and then in a
Speaker 1: few months changed her tune, especially when Jonie denied having
Speaker 1: any involvement in the abuse. Ruby took a plea deal
Speaker 1: and testified against Jody, who promptly pleaded guilty instead.
Speaker 2: So do you think it was a bit of like
Speaker 2: Once Ruby had had some separation from her, clarity returned
Speaker 2: and she realized.
Speaker 1: Absolutely what had happened. Yeah. Jody claimed that she loved
Speaker 1: the children and prayed that they would move on to
Speaker 1: have beautiful lives. Ruby blamed also. Ruby placed the blame
Speaker 1: solely on Jody and gave very hollow apologies. A cousin
Speaker 1: of Ruby's claimed later that her grab parents were abusive
Speaker 1: to her and it was multi generational. They were both
Speaker 1: convicted with aggravated abuse of up to thirty years each.
Speaker 1: Kevin divorced Ruby in twenty twenty three and is at
Speaker 1: last I could read about it is finding custody for
Speaker 1: his kids. Currently the children are in care of family services.
Speaker 1: That g is the story of Ruby Frame and Jody Hildebrandt.
Speaker 1: There are quite a few documentaries to watch about this.
Speaker 1: When on Netflix came out just last week called Evil
Speaker 1: Influencer The Jody Hildebrandt Story. I think her names get her.
Speaker 1: I think her name gets left out a little in
Speaker 1: conversation sometimes, and I think it's necessary to mention her
Speaker 1: name in the same sentenceank for sure.
Speaker 2: I want to look up what they look like. I
Speaker 2: don't know why I'm interested to see that, but I
Speaker 2: want to put a face to it. Did you say
Speaker 2: what sentence she.
Speaker 1: Got up to thirty years? I don't know what the
Speaker 1: actual sentence is.
Speaker 2: But Jody just looks like a really kind of average
Speaker 2: normal looking, like kind of dirty blonde haired lady in
Speaker 2: a yeah, and Ruby Frankie, Yeah, is really like young
Speaker 2: attractive blonde mo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Mormon mum. Is that interesting? It's a very interesting story.
Speaker 1: It's very it's awful, it's yeah, And that is the
Speaker 1: story that has been in a few documentaries and it
Speaker 1: so I find the whole thing so fascinating that that
Speaker 1: could go that far.
Speaker 2: I was about to say, it's it's good they were
Speaker 2: in the public eye being on YouTube, because then this
Speaker 2: was all found out. But that's not why I was
Speaker 2: found out. It was because when the kids escaped help.
Speaker 1: Oh god, that's and it led to that, that's what
Speaker 1: that's what had to happen.
Speaker 2: And then sorry, what was her play deal? What did
Speaker 2: what was her Joe? Sorry, Rubies?
Speaker 1: What was it was a diminished sentence if she play
Speaker 1: you know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what was her sentence?
Speaker 1: So it was up to thirty years?
Speaker 2: Oh that was Rubies.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So let me have a look right now and
Speaker 1: see what they both got. But so Jody Hilda Brand,
Speaker 1: I'll go first.
Speaker 2: I can't believe she said like there was no abuse
Speaker 2: going on.
Speaker 1: I know this had to happen.
Speaker 2: What do you call putting cane pepper in a wound?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Also, your Hilda Brand ultimately pled guilty to four
Speaker 1: counts and was sentenced to serve between four and thirty
Speaker 1: years in prison.
Speaker 2: Between yeah, thirty four.
Speaker 1: What is so she's still in there, but I don't
Speaker 1: know what the four and thirty.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe there were four different sentences for four of
Speaker 2: the chargers one of them one of them was four
Speaker 2: years and one was thirty.
Speaker 1: Brand's first parole hearing is scheduled to take place in
Speaker 1: December twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: What what what.
Speaker 1: Ruby? Frankie which is fr A n K E. So her, Yeah, same,
Speaker 1: ultimately pled guilty to four counts and on February to
Speaker 1: sentence to serve Yeah, same thing.
Speaker 2: I don't understand that. If anyone understands the Utah legal
Speaker 2: system better than I ask ye, how there is a
Speaker 2: sentence of between four and thirty years.
Speaker 1: On February twenty, twenty twenty four, Frankie received four consecutive
Speaker 1: sentences between one and fifteen years imprisonment, meaning she must
Speaker 1: serve a minimum term of four years, although the maximum
Speaker 1: term that could be imposed for all sentences could be
Speaker 1: would be sixty years. The Utah Code dictates the times
Speaker 1: served by defendant upon whom consecutive sentences are imposed. Must
Speaker 1: not exceed thirty years, except in circumstances of life imprisonment
Speaker 1: for the death penalty.
Speaker 2: I don't get it.
Speaker 1: It's long, isn't it like? I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that's like that seems a bit odd to
Speaker 1: have that sort of discrepancy in years.
Speaker 2: What a story. I can't believe. I didn't know that
Speaker 2: it all happened last year, that it all came out. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, the documentary is out there. It's really interesting. I'm
Speaker 1: going to watch that, you know what. Maybe you should.
Speaker 2: I don't really want to because it sounds awful, but
Speaker 2: I will.
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Speaker 3: I've had to watch an inordinate amount of Studio ten
Speaker 3: whilst in Isolation, and Joe Hildebrand on that show, he
Speaker 3: is grotesque in a way that I can't put into words.
Speaker 3: He had this thing today where he said, what happens
Speaker 3: is everyone knows this, like because of the crisis in
Speaker 3: the lockdown, at about six o'clock at night, the internet
Speaker 3: just goes, it goes out to lunch or something like.
Speaker 3: Everything's just really slow to upload. So what we've done
Speaker 3: is I've bought a DVD player online and yeah, we're
Speaker 3: going analog. We're watching DVDs. And I was just looking
Speaker 3: at him, going, what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker 3: At six o'clock every night, nothing happens to my internet. Nothing,
Speaker 3: there's not a gust of air happens to it. But
Speaker 3: he's going, oh, oh, everybody knows. Everyone in the whole
Speaker 3: fucking world knows. The Internet dies at six o'clock at night,
Speaker 3: and it's like, Noah, doesn't you lying?
Speaker 1: And who's he? Four The people watching Studio.
Speaker 3: Ten, I assume, are like older women who are buying
Speaker 3: fucking shit house pieces of exercise equipment that do jack shit,
Speaker 3: or bowls to store old pies in. Why would they
Speaker 3: want to watch Joe Hildebrand