1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: If you're listening to Well and Woody Wards, Clementine Ford, 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: clement Tine Ford, she's going to get that right. She's 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: on the Project last night talking about her brand new 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,480 Speaker 1: book I Don't, which is about the fact that marriage 5 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: is built on the oppression of women, which again, great, 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: really great thing to talk about and think about. And 7 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: I think as particularly as we move forward into new 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: territory in all of this debates in and around gender, 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: we need people like Clementine, even if people are going 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: to call her radical. That's the great role they play 11 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: in these conversations is pushing conversations, asking the right questions. 12 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: And I think it's wonderful. That's what we're doing about 13 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: an institution which is as old as marriages. What we 14 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: should be doing with any old institution, ask questions about it. 15 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: Why is it there, how is it helping us? What's 16 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: it good for? 17 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: Have a different opinion. 18 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: Absolutely, it's really useful. I did find it really interesting though, 19 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: that she said that this marriage is an institution which 20 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 1: is largely something that men are proponents of and that 21 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: women aren't necessarily initiating. So it's kind of like, and 22 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: again I'm paraphrasing her, but kind of like slapped on them. 23 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: It's like, hey, this is the thing we should be 24 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: doing now because it's good for me and it's not 25 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: good for you. But I had chats with some guys 26 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: on the weekend totally independently. I didn't even know she 27 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: was going to be on the project who were saying 28 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: that they wouldn't have been married if not for their wife, 29 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: who back then was like I really want to get married. Sure, 30 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: So I'm usined just to know. Using the power of 31 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: the Bower Radio thirty one and six five, are you 32 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: what do you reckon? It is that men or women 33 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: that are stronger advocates for marriage. 34 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 2: Got over here? Wilba Ava, what are your thoughts here? 35 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 3: Hey guys, A big fan of the show. Thanks over 36 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 3: I definitely think women are stronger advocates of marriage. Me 37 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 3: in particular, I've been with my partner for about five 38 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 3: years now, and I'm pushing the topic of marriage, and 39 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 3: i see all my friends getting engaged and getting married, 40 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 3: and I'm thinking, when's my time? 41 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the main reason? Ever, if you can put 42 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: friends doing it to one side, like, what's the main 43 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: reason you really need or want to be married maried? 44 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 3: Well, I want to kind of settle down properly and 45 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 3: have a family. And I think marriage is a bit 46 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 3: of security. 47 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: Okay, security word, isn't it? Yeah? 48 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 2: Which is so interesting. That's almost the opposite to what 49 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: Clementine's talking about. 50 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: Right, So I think what Clementine's saying is that I 51 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: think is that ava She's saying that that there are 52 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: a lot of women who are disillusioned about what it's 53 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: going to bring you. Oh sorry, right, So you might 54 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: think that's going to bring you security, but then it's 55 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: going to create a role for you where you're just 56 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: going to have to support your husband in whatever he does. 57 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: Are you like, eyes open going into that? 58 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 4: Are you aware of that? 59 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: Is that what you want? Yeah? 60 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 3: Like, I guess I'm already kind of playing like do 61 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 3: you mean like the role. 62 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: Of a wife well effectively like a traditional sense of 63 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: like a homekeeper effectively. 64 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I'm my situation is kind of interesting because 65 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: I'm already living with my partner. We're just renting together, 66 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: so I've kind of taken on that responsibility already. I 67 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 3: just want to have a bring. 68 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 4: I reckon. 69 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: It's actually interesting. Apparently an engagement ring originally was that 70 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: you bought an expensive ring. That's why it was such 71 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: a strong promise is because you bought them such an 72 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: expensive ring, so that if you died or left them 73 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: for somebody else, they still had this ring that they 74 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: can sell. Yeah, that's why you put Yeah, that's why 75 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: you spend a lot of money on engaging in traditionally. 76 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: Let's go to Eric here, Eric, what are your thoughts 77 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:29,839 Speaker 2: how you're doing? 78 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:30,119 Speaker 3: Good? 79 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: Mate? 80 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, so my take it's purely anecdotal. But like I'm 81 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 5: talking to guys and girls, I think that like when 82 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 5: men propose the idea of marriage, like it's like they're 83 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 5: there head over heels and their smitten. Whereas like the 84 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 5: girls that I've known that that pushed marriage, it's like 85 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 5: a biological clock kind of thing. Yeah, they want to 86 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 5: move on to those those checkpoints in their life. 87 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks the call, Eric, as you can challenge that 88 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: because I mean, I mean when you move mem and 89 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 2: I I moved on to those checkpoints without marriage. If 90 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: checkpoints is starting the family same right? 91 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: And I think I would say having you know, a 92 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: million dollar mortgage and then a child, that's a much 93 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: larger promise slash tying all my strings up with sem 94 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: than a contract yeah, which I can think, which is 95 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: a you know, at the end of the day, piece 96 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: of pap, which is what marriage is. Yeah, you can 97 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: walk out of that, but you know you've got to 98 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: look both after a child together. That's a big that's 99 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: a match. Yeh, that's you're going to see be saying 100 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: that person regardless for the rest of your life. 101 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: To rand and here Rhannon, what are your thoughts. We're 102 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 2: talking about whether men or women push for marriage more. 103 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 4: As much as I'd like to say that it's equal, 104 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 4: I'd probably have to agree with the other female caller 105 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 4: that it probably is more women pushing it. And i'd 106 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 4: say that in a sense of once, like what she said, 107 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 4: there's been a relationship that's been going for a long time, 108 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 4: and that question really has been thrown around a lot. 109 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 4: I feel like it's often the women or the more 110 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 4: submissive partner in the relationship who is the one going 111 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 4: all right, so what's going on? I think especially women, 112 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 4: and I know in my case having some partners who 113 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 4: maybe have commitment issues or they're not so sure with 114 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 4: what they want. It's definitely the females being like, well, hey, 115 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 4: is this going to happen? Is this not going to happen. 116 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, you worried about You're worried about the other person. 117 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, and also that sense of security too. It's like, yes, 118 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,840 Speaker 4: of course I love that person, and I know some 119 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 4: people are comfortable with spending forever, but I think, yeah, 120 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,040 Speaker 4: sometimes the marriage is definitely that security blank case. 121 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: When you say security blanket rean, and I think this 122 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:42,559 Speaker 1: is the bit that I've must be incredibly frustrating for women. 123 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: Is this body the biological clock thing? 124 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 4: Literally right? 125 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, It's like if I'm going to have I need 126 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:51,599 Speaker 1: to know who I'm going to be having a baby 127 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: with before that clock runs out. 128 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely. And I find like I'm in my early twenties, 129 00:05:58,160 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 4: but a lot of the guys that I work with 130 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 4: or I'm friends with at that same age and not 131 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 4: even thinking about kids, you know, They're like, I don't 132 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 4: even want to think about it. So I'm thirty, But 133 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 4: it's like if I don't even have a partner by thirty, 134 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 4: am I going to have kids? 135 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: It's a different you know, and it's sad that this 136 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: old institution is, you know, sort of the only thing 137 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: that you're thinking is you're you know, your only means 138 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,679 Speaker 1: to create that security hmm. 139 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, crazy stuff it is, isn't it. 140 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: Let me lean on a two hundred year old convention 141 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: to try and make sure I've got a dad for 142 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: my child. That's sad like when you put it in 143 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: words like that, right. 144 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: It's just it's almost like Emrianne. You can disagree with 145 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: me everyone, but it's almost like needing just a little 146 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 2: piece of evidence to know that this is heading in 147 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: that direction, right, And marriage is that? 148 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, we could send it something where it's like you 149 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: and I were saying forwards, like having a mortgage with 150 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: somebody is well for me a far bigger indication of 151 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,840 Speaker 1: like a contract because you can't bail on that. Now, 152 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: you can't bail on that. It's hard owing a lot 153 00:06:58,520 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: of money. 154 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: There, hard as to divorce a than a person exactly 155 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 2: exactly right, So maybe maybe there's something there. 156 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,280 Speaker 1: You both go into a certain amount of debt, so 157 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: you know before you have a child with a bank. Yeah, 158 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,559 Speaker 1: that sounds like a great idea. More debt, more debt 159 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: for the young. 160 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 4: This was brought to you, but. 161 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 5: Hear more of the boys on the Full Show podcast 162 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 5: all on the iHeartRadio app. 163 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 3: Oh where me get your podcasts?