WEBVTT - CONTENT KINGS - TROY LUM - BOY SWALLOWS UNIVERSE 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.760 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:02.920 TV Reload. 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:04.040 The podcast past weep thatline. 0:00:04.160 --> 0:00:06.120 Hey everyone, thanks for clicking and downloading. 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:08.840 On today's episode of TV Reload with Troy Lum, we 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:11.559 will be talking about Boyce Swallows Universe, which is now 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:14.720 out on Netflix. This Australian drama series for Netflix has 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.960 an all star Australian cast, stunning cinematography and eighties period 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.520 setting that fills modern and a fast paced story that 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:24.840 is deadly serious but full of love, hope and humor. 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:27.200 And a becoming of age story set in the nineteen 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.120 eighties Brisbane that blends the magic of innocence of youth 0:00:30.280 --> 0:00:31.240 with the brutal. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.120 Reality of the adult world. A lost father, a mute. 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.800 Brother, a recovering addict mum, a heroin dealing stepfather, and 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:42.880 a notoriously criminal babysitter. Hmmm sounds interesting. Adapted from Trent 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:47.680 Dalton's iconic Australian novel boy Swallows Universe, exploring the crossroads 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:50.640 where a boy becomes a man, toys with good and evil, 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.240 and the everyday meets the extraordinary. Today's guest, Troy Lum's 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.640 film career started in distribution and exhibition at Dandi Films 0:00:57.640 --> 0:00:59.640 in the late nineteen eighties, and while he has a 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.160 quiet and release some of the biggest independent movies in history, 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:06.280 including The Blair Witch Project and Amie, the twenty seven 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:10.319 year old launched Hopscotch Films alongside Sandy Don and Frank Cox. 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:14.920 The independent film distribution company's many successes include Pans, Labyrinth, 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.600 Fahrenheit nine to eleven, The Sapphires, Spotlight, and even the 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.080 Oscar winning Lala land Lum shares the role of series 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.200 in executive producer title with Andrew Mason, and with the 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:28.039 massive success around the world with this title, I think 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.919 we're going to continue to see plenty more collaborations between 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.560 the two. There is actually so much to unpack with 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.240 Troy today, which I'm very excited about. What drew him 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.160 to the project, how they captured the tremendous performances from 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.080 their young actors, what techniques they use to balance out 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:45.959 the bleak at times overtones with things like music and cinematography. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:49.000 I will ask about the possibility of continuing their relationship 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:51.800 with author Trent Dalton and what their relationship was like 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:53.880 with him, and if there was a bit of pressure 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.840 having him as the author on set. Anyway, let's bring 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.120 Troy into the podcast and guys, sit back, relax, and 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.440 I hope you enjoyed this deep dive into the world 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:07.080 of Australian television. Hi Troy, thank you for joining me 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.280 talking about this series Pleasure. This could be the most 0:02:10.520 --> 0:02:15.040 successful Australian made series for twenty twenty four. You must 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:17.320 be so elated at this point by the success of 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:17.760 the show. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.480 Oh, I'm over the moon. It's it happens so rarely 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.680 that you have something that catches fire like this, and 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:28.120 so I'm just enjoying the wild ride as they say, 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:29.120 so you should. 0:02:29.200 --> 0:02:31.200 I mean, at this point you've been through the press 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.000 and spoken about this before people could see it, and 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:37.320 now people are reveling in how good. 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:38.440 This series actually is. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.360 So yeah, is it interesting now to be talking to 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.000 me at this point now that audiences are lapping it up? 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:47.920 Yeah, because look, you never really know, and you know, 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.600 this has been five years of my life and I 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:54.480 moved to Brisbane to shoot the show and was living 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:57.239 there for six months, and so there's a whole kind 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.240 of journey that goes along with something like this. You 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.760 never really know. And because it was based on such 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.720 a beloved book. You know, I was bracing myself for 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.600 people to really, you know, be disappointed by the show 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:11.959 because they loved the book so much. And so look, 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:14.760 the last week has just been well, first of all, 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.600 one of relief just to know that people really like it. 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.520 But then since the relief has subsided, it's more been 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.600 an excitement about how the whole world has actually been 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:27.360 loving the show. And that was something that I probably 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.680 didn't expect that it would be such a global hit. 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:31.560 Well, you've taken so much of people's time. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.359 I had this story where we would recommend my mother 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.680 in law shows to watch, and so we went to 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:40.120 recommend this and she was like, no, I watched it 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.360 all in one sitting, which is a lot of content, 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.000 but that's the start. That's what this show is. It's 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:49.440 so intoxicating, it's so real, so visceral, that I feel 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.000 like people step into that and they don't want to 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:52.520 step out. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.160 They need to know what happens next. 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.840 Yeah, all of that was obviously based on trans amazing novel, 0:03:57.840 --> 0:03:59.880 which is all in there, but I guess the challenge 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:02.720 for was to how do we adapt that for screen 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.160 and then kind of make it so that at the 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.440 end of every episode, you were leaving the audience wanting more, 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.520 and so there was a real kind of challenge on 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.120 how do we break the book down into what became 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.960 seven episodes so that every time you finished and up 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:18.440 you were wanting more. 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.719 Well, there's many ways to talk about the success of 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.200 this story and why it translates so well to audiences, 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:26.080 But at the heart of where I think this series 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.080 really works is that choice that happened in the book 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.760 and that you carried through to the series, in that 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.760 choice of telling a story from the pov of a child, 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.960 and I think allowing Eli to actually act out all 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.400 of those things that kids want to do and look. 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:45.120 I think also kids are essentially hopeful beings, and when 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.200 you do something through the eyes of a kid, it 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:49.880 can't help but being magical and hopeful. And I think 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:51.919 what Trent did with the book, and I like to 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:54.760 think what we've translated onto the screen was that real 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.279 feeling of hope and magic. And I think that is 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.839 what the universal theme is. It's it's the fact that 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.680 no matter where your life is at or who's in 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:05.520 your life, as long as you have a lot of 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:07.880 love in your life and hope that that will always 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.080 see through. And I think it's been quite interesting looking 0:05:11.120 --> 0:05:14.600 at I was looking at the global metrics of where 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.960 the show was really ranking, you know, like we're ranking 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.000 we're ranking top five globally, which I think will move up. 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.080 But there were certain places where it was ranking number 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.480 one or number two, and I was places like Jamaica 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.080 and lots of places in South and Central America where 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:31.719 I think the resonance of the story of you know, 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.080 working class people under peril who are trying to do 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.640 their best and it's really about family. I think that's 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.800 where it all comes together for a lot of people anyway. 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.039 But yeah, it's been such a it's been so great 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:45.160 watching the response. 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.280 Going back to my point though, I guess it allows 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.960 audiences to be a kid again for a while, you know, 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.479 without and also remembering our original instincts. It takes you 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.400 back to thinking, how would I as a child before 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.920 the lens of being an adult that we now have. 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.880 For surely, Yeah, I think the magic was really I 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.360 think when Trent wrote the novel, the magical Realism was 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:09.240 really about the child inventing a world to overcome trauma. Really, 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.440 and what we've done in the book is done the 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.880 same thing. And obviously we're really lucky to have Felix 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.120 Cameron play Eli, who I think encapsulated that childlike wonder 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:25.000 in such a meaningful emotional way. And I realized sort 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.720 of three days into the shoot, how lucky you were 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.160 to have feelings, because if we didn't have him, I 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:33.000 think the whole series would have fallen apart, because he's 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.400 basically in every single scene in the first four episodes, 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.840 and he holds the whole thing together, which was a 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.760 lot of pressure for a thirteen year old, But. 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:42.000 That's a lot of heavy lifting. 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.800 That's a lot of heavy lifting for any actor of 0:06:44.880 --> 0:06:48.039 any age to be able to engage like that and 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.560 keep you engaged with you know. The only thing I 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.880 thought was that because he was so powerful in that 0:06:54.000 --> 0:06:56.279 role at the very end, in the final scene, I 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.440 kind of felt like we needed a flashback to that 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.000 early stages of him, you know, almost like him. 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.839 Funny our action that because we we talked about it, 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.160 we tried different things, we actually putting little flushbacks at 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.000 the end. There was a there was a version of 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.200 the of the last episode where where Guss is holding 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:19.320 Eli at the clocktailer and sort of crying whilst holding him, 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.440 and we and we actually did this little sequence where 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.720 we flushed back into sort of Guss and Eli's little journey. 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:26.960 But I think we just decided that it took us 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.920 out of the show in that brief moment, and although 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.960 it kind of worked, it was eventually we decided to 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:35.480 take it out. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:37.560 I kin'd of feel I kept thinking of Steven Spielberg 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.040 when he was making Jurassic Park, where he was like, 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:42.160 we need to change the ending, we need to bring 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.520 the t Rex back, because the t Rex was so 0:07:45.600 --> 0:07:48.120 huge in the story, and that wasn't originally in the script, 0:07:48.160 --> 0:07:51.200 but Steven Spielberg understood the gravitas of the t Rex. 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.280 It was like all right back in. So it must 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:54.640 have been that similar feeling of. 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:58.840 Very tempted little feelings. It is so amazing. I think 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.240 we all decided that just took us out of the 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.320 show too much where we were at in the show, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:04.440 because it was a bit of a bit of a 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.600 rollercoaster from really that end part to get to the ending, 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:09.480 and it just slowed us down a little bit. But 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:14.160 it's funny. It was actually quite a strong debate. So 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.880 it's funny how you've landed on that because we did 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:17.760 talk about it a lot. 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.480 Well, taking a step back and then asking you what 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.480 drew you to this story, you know, how did you 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:25.440 come across the book and what was the evolution of 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.040 you wanting to join the project? 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:32.840 Well, actually I got the book from a UK company 0:08:33.120 --> 0:08:35.800 called Chapter One, who produced the show with us, and 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:39.200 the head of that company, Sophie Gardner, sent me the 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.480 book and I'd never heard of it before, and it's 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:44.320 very rare that an overseas person would send me an 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.360 Australian novel and say this is amazing, and so I 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.920 read it straight away and I just yeah, they needed 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:53.440 an Australian partner, and I read it straight away and 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:57.240 just recognized that for me, it was Australian in all 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.719 the right ways. You know, sometimes you read stuff, we'll 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.200 look at stuff and for me anyway, as a as 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.760 an Aussie, but someone who had a child of migrants, 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:08.839 I look at Australia a completely different way, I think. 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.400 And what I loved about Boys Fellows Universe is that 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:13.319 it was Aussie in all the ways that I really loved, 0:09:13.559 --> 0:09:15.480 and that's what kind of got me. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:16.400 Involved like that. 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.440 I don't know if you've read Christos Chokos's books, but 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:20.280 it's like his. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.320 I love him to also. I think just the emotional 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:27.000 sophistication of being Australian and the fact that we have 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.640 a unique culture, we have a unique perspective, which I 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.360 think Boyce Weellow's universe through its storytelling devices, really shows 0:09:33.400 --> 0:09:35.600 and that's what Christos does as well. And that's what 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.520 I love about it. It's it's it's a it's a 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:42.080 story that's about storytelling in a way. It's about how 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.440 you tell stories, what you remember, and I love how 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.880 nostalgic it is for a certain time, but I love 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.080 how it's so confident and you know, there's a great 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:55.000 what we what we were really focused on making the 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.040 show was we had to be really authentic to the 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.800 time in the period, and we realized that the more 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.880 authentic you are and telling a story, actually, ironically, the 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:08.360 more universal it becomes, because people really truly understand what 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.720 these people are going through and when they're going through 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.320 and how they're going through it. So we're really focused 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.880 on the detail just to make sure that we got 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.199 that sort of Brisbane nineteen eighties, that spirit of Australia 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:20.240 really shining through it. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:22.559 Helps us tap in. When you see the bushel's coffee 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:25.599 and you know, just the smaller details, you're like, oh, 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:27.800 You're like, oh my gosh, I can smell this, do 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:30.160 you know what I mean? That's when it becomes more 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.319 than just that cinematic experience. All of that stuff was 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.280 extraordinarily clever. You did talk about this before, but Voyce 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:38.160 Faller's Universe is such a much loved book, and it 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.040 had been for so long, which would have come with 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:41.840 so much pressure from the fans. 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:42.320 You know. 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.920 Can we talk about the journey of wanting to choose 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.080 a book and turn it into a series like this, 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.480 and had you been worried about using novels before. 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:57.400 There's always that pressure when dealing with with novels. I 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.200 you know, many years ago I was involved in film 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.760 called Males Last Dancer, which was also a very beloved novel, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:05.760 so I've had some sort of experience with it. But 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.480 I think you just have to be first of all, 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:09.800 you have to have the key creative on born in 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.600 this case Trent Dalton, who I think was just, I've 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:16.240 got to say, just so incredibly supportive every step of 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.600 the way. And it's not easy for an author watching 0:11:18.679 --> 0:11:22.960 their you know, their imagination come to life. But never 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.880 during the process was he ever precious about it, just 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:29.480 really encouraging about Look, I think the testament to Trent 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:31.680 was that, you know, when you make a show and 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:33.880 adapted for screen from a book, you have to make 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.840 certain changes to the book. It's just natural that you 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:38.840 have to do that. And in Boyce wa As the Universe, 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.040 there is certain departures from the book that are quite profound. 0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.440 But every time we did that, Trent would read that 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.720 in the script and he'd actually always comment about it, 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.240 but in a positive way. He will say, oh, I 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.120 love how he did that. It was so much better 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:54.040 than what I did. Or you'd always be very generous 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.959 about the changes. And look, in my experience, authors can 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.680 be the opposite. You know, they can be really intransient 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:03.080 about up their materials. So yeah, I think having him 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.040 was always our north style. Knowing that he supported us 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:09.160 and so it always gave us the confidence going through. 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:10.920 And then you know, we had him on set a 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.160 number of times and you know, he would literally walk 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:15.480 onto a set and burst into tears, like look at 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.160 the way that we designed the house and look at 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.840 little Felix, And he would just be like, this is 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:23.720 this is incredible. So, yeah, that was all really special. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.000 Were the things in the book that were non negotiable 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:30.280 in making their way making its way to the Netflix adaptation. 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.520 Well, I think one of the one of the kind 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.600 of riskiest things about the adaptation was the sort of 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:38.920 magical realism scenes. So the scenes with Gus riding in 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.520 the air and the sort of gene sequences of the 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.440 car and all that, all that stuff in the in 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.040 the first four episodes, and you know that if that 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.680 gets handled badly, it can really ostracize an audience because 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.080 they're like, what am I watching? Suddenly there's a kid 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.280 writing in the air, There's there's station wagons flying past 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.199 the moon, and so I think tonally we needed to 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:02.280 get that right. And Netflix will always super encouraging about 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.960 embracing the magic, and that gave us a lot of 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.480 confidence to make sure that we kept at it. We 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.880 kept doing it, and we were really confident about doing it, 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.360 and I think that makes a huge difference to the show, 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.240 where you're watching something that's more than just a drama 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:17.120 that has that element of magic to it, and I 0:13:17.160 --> 0:13:20.120 think that's what audiences around the world are really embracing 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:21.280 is that it's so different. 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.360 Well, I guess it's a huge risk when you're going 0:13:23.400 --> 0:13:25.800 to do some of that surrealism. All it has to 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.240 be just right, It has to feel like it fits 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.439 within the universe. An audience have to go there with 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:34.280 You could be silly, and thinking back to it, it 0:13:34.360 --> 0:13:37.800 is silly. But when I watched this, considering i'd read 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.480 the book, I was delighted by that part of it, 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.760 like it actually added to the hope in a weird 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:48.280 way that this sort of fantasy added to it, complemented it. 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.040 I guess what we're always really conscious of was grounding 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:53.680 all of that stuff in something real, And so whenever 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.280 we went to one of those moments, it was always 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.679 from Elie's perspective, So it always knew that you were 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:01.120 grounded in a third ten year old's point of view, 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:03.439 and I think that allowed the audience to sort of 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:05.640 go with them, And so it was there was a 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:06.720 method to the madness. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:09.680 What were the hardest obstacles in translating the book to 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.440 the screenplay? Were there things that you had to lose? 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:15.120 Or I think they call it cutting their babies, or 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:16.960 there's a saying for it, the. 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.720 Killing their babies try it's a terrible saying it like for. 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.080 Me to get it wrong as well, But I was 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.760 so interested in that, you know, about those choices. 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:28.960 I think this in this one, we were quite lucky 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:30.720 we didn't have to kill a lot of babies, but 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.160 we had to think long and hard about how we're 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.200 going to do things. I mean, one of the things 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.440 in the book that is, you know, the book gets 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.640 very fanciful with you know, the limbs factory and all 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.240 that stuff in the ending is is like it gets 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.880 it almost turns into a genre, like a totally different show, 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:49.200 And with the TV show we had to do the 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.040 same thing. We had to follow this narrative, which at 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:54.920 times was quite cooky, and I think one of the 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.880 challenges we had was trying to bring some sort of 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:02.040 logic like screen logic, film logic to that narrative because 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.320 in a book it kind of works completely differently the 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:06.640 way Trent wrote it, and we had to sort of 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:10.080 match that ambition but give it more internal logic, I think, 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.000 and there was a lot of consternation about how to 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:16.840 do that, and I think we largely succeeded, but it 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.200 was challenging. The other thing that was really challenging was 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:22.040 was aging the boys, because in the book and also 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.280 the series, there's an age leap, and obviously we lose 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:30.080 Felix in after episode five and we gained Zach Burgess. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.600 There was a lot of consternation about who that actor 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:35.640 was going to be, and I know Zach did so 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.040 many rehearsals, bless him to get that role, But it 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.360 was only because we were just so we knew that 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.560 Felix that people were going to fall in love with him, 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:46.360 and we needed an actor who the audience could really 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.200 go with. And then we were meant to replace Lee 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.240 Tiger Halley as well for an older Gus and we 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:55.760 honestly we could not find an actor to not just 0:15:55.920 --> 0:16:01.280 match Lee's look, which is incredible, but just his sensibility. 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:06.440 His sensitivity is something about the way he encompasses the 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.520 screen that's very unique. I think Lee's quite a unique guy. 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.080 And so we took the big leap of actually keeping 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.360 Lee Tiger Halle all the way through the series and 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.640 aging him up to twenty three, which at the time 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.480 he was like seventeen years old, and I think he 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.200 did it really well. I was so proud of the 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.640 way that he was able to do it, and yeah, 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.200 but that was a little challenge. We went through hundreds 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.400 of hundreds and hundreds of auditions to land back at 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:33.200 Lee Tiger Halle. 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:36.520 Well, I mean they're acting from these children, I mean, 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:38.960 is a good way to put it, but is unbelievable. 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.000 How do you go about getting the children to be 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:44.600 able to portray such deep emotions without affecting them, you know, 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:46.880 in their real life. You know, the subject matter is 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.920 quite bleak. You know, how are you controlling those elements? 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.760 So there was two things. One is that we always 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.600 had their parents on set. So Lee's parents and Felix's 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.680 parents were on set all the time, and so when 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.720 anything was sort of a emotionally confronting, which there was 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.120 a lot of stuff, we made sure that their parents 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.159 were there, that they were feeling okay, but everything that 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:11.679 was going on. Luckily, Ivan Kroll Christopher, who plays Ivan 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.600 Kroll in real life, is like an absolute sweeth hunts 0:17:15.400 --> 0:17:19.399 It makings a lot easier that he was so he 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.480 would switch to wive and Cole to being Chris and 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.320 was just the nicest man and the boys were comfortable 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.320 with him and in full threatened. So there was that 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.240 and we also had this incredible drama tag, this woman 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.639 called Nadia, who a dramaturg is someone who sort of 0:17:33.680 --> 0:17:37.800 coaches the actors offset and gets them ready for scenes. 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.840 And so you obviously have your director who does all 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.280 that work, and then Nadia's work was to get really 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.640 granular with the boys and so she would spend weekends 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:51.280 after after hours and then just prepping specially Felix and 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.320 Lee for each scene. And so that he was she 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.120 was kind of their life after acting coach, their bit 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.240 of a life coach at the same time. And she's 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.679 really incredible and it was great at the premiere to 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:07.520 see Felix and Nadia see each other for the first 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.840 time after all these months. Such a connection there. But yeah, 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.800 a lot of I mean, they were both they're both 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.399 incredible actors. But yeah, there's a lot of preparation that 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.560 goes into making sure aim that those kids are their 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:22.520 welfare is sound, but also that their performance was up 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.120 to scratch, because it's hard to get kids to be 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.720 so for such we're talking about months, I mean months. 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:31.840 You know, they were working six to eight hours a 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:34.359 day for months, and you know, to be last. 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.359 It's huge, I mean it's huge but there's not a 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.040 frame of this series where these characters are broken at all. 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.640 Like the integrity of their process of how they're relating 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.840 to what's happening in their surroundings is just so so 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.480 deep and so believable. And again it goes back to 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.440 what I was saying about. You know, so much heavy 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:54.679 lifting for this particular story is done by children, So 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.080 it's a real testament to the way in which you 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.240 created that environment for them to be able to be 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.520