1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: How you start is really key to the rest of 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: the day, and a really easy trick I learned is 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: if you're in flow the day before, don't finish the paragraph, 4 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: so like get halfway through the paragraph and then kind 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: of write the next sentence. And it's really easy to 6 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: pick up. Days where you've like completed something and you're 7 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: starting again, they're harder because you're kind of starting the 8 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:23,240 Speaker 1: engine from the scratch. 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 11 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, Doctor Amathe Imbat. I'm an 12 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Invetium, and I'm obsessed with 13 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: finding ways to optimize my work day. For the month 14 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 2: of January, I'll be dipping into the archives of twenty 15 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: eighteen to replace some of. 16 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: My favorite episodes. 17 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: Today, I wanted to replay my interview with Rachel Botsman, 18 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: which is an interview that I got so much feedback about. 19 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: I seriously had so many people right to me to 20 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 2: say how many great tips they got. 21 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: From this episode. 22 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: So for those who don't know Rachel, she is a 23 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 2: world renowned expert on technology and trust, an author of 24 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 2: two best selling books. Her first book was called What's 25 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: Mine Is Yours, which is all about collaborative consumption, and 26 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: her second book, Who Can You Trust, explores how technology 27 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 2: is transforming trust and what this means for life, work, 28 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: and how we do business. Rachel is a lecturer at 29 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: Oxford University and has been recognized as one of the 30 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 2: most creative people in business by Fast Company and is 31 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: one of the fifty most influential management thinkers in the world. 32 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 2: You can find Rachel on Twitter and LinkedIn at at 33 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: Rachel Botsman rac h E. 34 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: Lbotsma n. 35 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: We cover a heap of ground in this interview, ranging 36 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 2: from how the weather have vexed her productivity, through to 37 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: her very unusual but very awesome way of crafting presentations, 38 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: and on that note, over to Rachel to find out 39 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 2: about how she works. 40 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Rachel. It's a pleasure to be here. Now. 41 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: I've heard you referred to as a digital philosopher. 42 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: Not a title I gave myself. Other people gave me. 43 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: I think in the absence of titles. You know, for 44 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: some reason people they don't want to call me an 45 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: author or a teacher or whatever it is. But it's 46 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: actually a very beautiful title, because I think I've researched 47 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: deeply the role of philosophers in society, not just what 48 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: philosophy is, and a lot of it is giving people 49 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: frameworks and lenses to view the world a little bit 50 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:38,640 Speaker 1: differently or to simplify very complex things. And I guess 51 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: that's what I do, is I study structural shifts enabled 52 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: by technologies that are having a huge impact in your lot, 53 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: on our lives. So it's a big compliment, even if 54 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: it sounds very DEPONSI I think it's very appropriate. 55 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: And your most recent book, Who Can You Trust, came 56 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 2: out I think late last year, is that right? 57 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, so it came out Who Can You Trust? Question Mark. Yes, 58 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: it came out in October. And then I had the 59 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: bright idea that I will simultate. I would simultaneously launch 60 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: it across three continents, thinking this would be very good 61 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 1: in terms of focus and momentum, underestimating that that is 62 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: physically quite grilling. 63 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,400 Speaker 2: I'm really keen to delve into the writing of the book. 64 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: So I want to go back in time, back to 65 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 2: when the publisher said, yes, let's do this book, and 66 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: talk me through the writing the creation of a book 67 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 2: like this, I might. 68 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: Be slightly different from authors, but by the time I 69 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: go to a publisher, the book is fully pretty fully 70 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: formed in my head, like the argument, the stories. And 71 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: so I wrote my first book, What's Mine Is Yours 72 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: in two thousand and nine, so this was a pretty 73 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: big gap. So I was thinking about it for about 74 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: five years. So I hate the proposal process, just to 75 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: be answer to you, like proposals are very strange, like 76 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: a mixture of a marketing document and trying to show 77 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: your voice. But then once they said to the publishers Penguin, 78 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: once they say go I think I finished in seven months, 79 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: I start to finish. And then with everything that started 80 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: to go on with Brexit and the US elections, they 81 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: actually chopped. So my I was meant to deliver in 82 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: April and then they said, no, you want to deliver 83 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: end of January, so they chopped. So I had to 84 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: write really fast. And at first when they said that, 85 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: I was like, there's no way this is going to happen. 86 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: And it was good in a way. I mean, I 87 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: think it was a little too much pressure, but it's 88 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: always interesting what those time constraints can do. 89 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 2: Wow, And so what did a typical day look like 90 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 2: during during what is a very time constrained for a 91 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 2: few months to write a full book in So, what 92 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: what does a typical day of writing look like for 93 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: you when you're in that phase? 94 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, as I said, I'm probably I don't 95 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 1: know if this is different from some authors in that 96 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the interviews were done. And one of 97 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: the things I find is absolutely key is when people 98 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: say to me, I just can't finish the book, I'm like, 99 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: we'll have you cleared your schedule. And by clearing the schedule, 100 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: I mean nothing. I mean it's got to be like 101 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: your kid's life and death, your health, like a ball 102 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: meeting you have to absolutely legally attend, because even when 103 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: you have like a one hour meeting or an interview, 104 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: you change your state. And so I found that focus 105 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: absolutely critical to find that momentum and to get frustrated 106 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: and bored with the material, but to keep forcing yourself 107 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: to come back to it because you hit these walls, 108 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: and if you've got other things going on, they're the 109 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,440 Speaker 1: excuse or distraction to actually not deal with the tough 110 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: parts that you're trying to push through the material. 111 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: So would you write for eight hours a day, Like 112 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: what would that look like? 113 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: No, I mean I think you have what I call, 114 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: for lack of better term, big stride days. So you 115 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: have days where and you don't know when they're going 116 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: to come. So it's not like you can say, well, 117 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 1: you know, a researcher for four days, it's gonna be 118 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: a big stride day. You just sit down and it's 119 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: like a powerhouse. It's just you forget going to the toilet. 120 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: You've just it's like you can do four or five 121 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: thousand words. So I've never been one of these people's 122 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: like I'm going to do fifteen hundred words a day, 123 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: because sometimes some days you'll write two hundred words. But 124 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: it's the key section of the book. So I find 125 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: those goals quite artificial, you know, if you're moving at 126 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: the right pace. So one of the things that I 127 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: will set is like chapter goals, right, so I will 128 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 1: wake up. I now have children, so this privilege of 129 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: the six to nine slot, which is absolutely precious for 130 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: me when it comes to writing, has gone. So the 131 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: six to nine am slush. Yeah. So because I used 132 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: to go to bed and think about it and write 133 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: and then want to wake up and write, and I 134 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: could do more in those three hours than I could 135 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 1: do for the rest of the day. And when I 136 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:16,119 Speaker 1: first have my son, to be honest, I was quite 137 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: resemful that and I thought, well, you know, I'm never 138 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: going to find that productivity again. And then you get 139 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: to a place of acceptance where it's like, well, you 140 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: know your children are there and they don't have any 141 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: understanding around this, and you have to drop them off 142 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: at school. So one of the tricks I've found is 143 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: how you settle, how you start is really key to 144 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: the rest of the day. And a really easy trick 145 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: I learned is if you're in flow the day before, 146 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: don't finish the paragraph, so like get halfway through the 147 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: paragraph and then kind of write the next sentence. And 148 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: it's really easy to pick up. Days where you've like 149 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: completed something and you're starting again, they're harder because you're 150 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: kind of starting the engine from scratch. It's interesting. 151 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 2: We were talking about Adam Grant before we started recording, 152 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: and he gives us the exact same technique where he 153 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 2: will kind of finish. I think Ernest Hemingway described it 154 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: like packing on a downhill slope or something like that. 155 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: That's interesting to hear that that works for you as well. 156 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: And so you mentioned like the six to nine am 157 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,239 Speaker 2: slot when you're a mom, that's gone, and I've definitely 158 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: experienced that myself. 159 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: So what replaced that, Well, it's not just what replaced that. 160 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: The other thing I think people underestimate is that sixty 161 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: nine slot requires a lot of energy, and you've probably 162 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: experienced if you're not present for them, or if you're 163 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: on a rush, they move backwards, they take their clothes off, 164 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: you know, like nothing happens, right, So it's saying like 165 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: these these hours are yours and then then whatever you do, 166 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: how you switch from that mode to this concentration mode 167 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: is really important. So I don't know, maybe it's because 168 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: I'm British, but the team making the process of making 169 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: tea properly making tea teapot on sitting down and drinking it. 170 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: And then I always try and read something that is 171 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: not mine that I think is brilliant, and I'll have 172 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: a stack of things and it quietens you down, especially 173 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: if it's me in a racy morning or there's something 174 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: happened that you can't control. And so really what you're 175 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: doing is controlling your state, and anything can happen on 176 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: the way to work or on the drop off of 177 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: the kids. But you're saying, I'm in control of that 178 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: because I have these mechanisms and tricks and food and 179 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: drink and listening as well. So I found like podcasts 180 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 1: or listening to other books, not so that you're totally 181 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 1: immersed in it, but you've switched mode in a very 182 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: conscious way. 183 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:47,479 Speaker 2: So the tea they're reading something that's quite inspiring and powerful, 184 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 2: because that almost become like a ritual to get you 185 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 2: into that sort of work state or a flow state. 186 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, definitely. I mean the other thing is I 187 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: have I write with a p and pen a lot. 188 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: So the other thing is I will write a list 189 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: of things that I've got to get through, and you know, 190 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: when you're in writing mode, like I've got to read 191 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: this paper, I've got to whatever it is, but it's 192 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: still a to do list. And then it's also you 193 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: I literally write the time the day where I'm going 194 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: to deal with other things, and like that's the religion, 195 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: that's the discipline, right, Like especially on the days where 196 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: you're like I really don't want to write, like the 197 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: temptation to just shop for shoes or to email. I 198 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: always know when things are going really bad because I 199 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: do invoicing, which I hate. And it's also not being 200 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: too harm with yourself, like those days your mind is 201 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: doing something. I really believe this, it's tripping for a reason, 202 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: and you kind of have to let it do that. 203 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: But also know when okay, I've done that now for 204 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: three days in a row, there's no more billing to 205 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: be done. It's back to the discipline. 206 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to come back to the big stride days. 207 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 2: And I'm curious if you've ever thought about what are 208 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: the precursors to a big stride day? Have you ever 209 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: thought what if they all got in common? 210 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: I have sleep number one. It's like absolutely key, like 211 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: when you ironically, it's when you're not thinking about the 212 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 1: work and you're well rested. And there's a difference I 213 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: think between They don't often all for me anyway, they 214 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: don't happen on a Monday, so it's not about the 215 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: weekend of recharging and wrestling. It's just literally you've slept 216 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: really well. So I think a lot of it is 217 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: tied to your physical mental state. They often come when 218 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: you've been wrestling with something, so especially when you're trying 219 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,200 Speaker 1: to really get to the heart of something quite complex. 220 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,599 Speaker 1: I often find they come also when you've been inspired 221 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: by something, and it can be something very small, like 222 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: you readicens or so it's they're the consistent conditions. Weather 223 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: for me also is really big, So I write really 224 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: well when it's raining. I think it's because there's nowhere 225 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: else to go and we the UK climate. But if 226 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: you don't go on it's the most beautiful day, you know, 227 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: you'll think when can I go for that walk? Or 228 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: maybe I'll read outside in the sunshine. So it's like 229 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: this inward focusing. If the impact of the rain. 230 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 2: That's that's fascinating, it kind of gets you focused because 231 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: there's nothing else to do to procrastinate on outside. 232 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to. 233 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: Know, like you talked about invoicing being the kind of 234 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 2: thing that you know you might go to. 235 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: Or sadly give, very sad but very. 236 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 2: Understandable when you're trying to tackle a tough task. 237 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: How how do you like. 238 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: Do you have you know, anything that you do or 239 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: rules that you set yourself, or tricks that you that 240 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: you use to stay focused on tasks that can be 241 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: had to push through and try to sort of push 242 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 2: out the various digital distractions that are out there. 243 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I mean, it's really difficult, but 244 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: this is the most basic advice. The way you start 245 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: your data, you will continue. So I call it like 246 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: that monkey brain, that jumping right. So if you are 247 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: going through the check Twitter, check Instagram, check LinkedIn, check email, 248 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 1: check bla blah blah, you've put yourself physically in this 249 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: racing mode. I mean, I don't understand neurologically what's going on, 250 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: but you understand physically you feel very different. And so 251 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: I think this idea. I'm not a believer that you 252 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: get everything out the way. You know, so some people 253 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: and it works to some people, like I'm going to 254 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: do email eight to nine and then it will be 255 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: a clean slate. There's usually something in that email that 256 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: comes up that you have to deal with, or that 257 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: bothers you, or that requires more than five minutes to answer. 258 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: So the way you start your day really sets the 259 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: rest of the day. And that's I've become far more 260 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: disciplined around that. And even like I can't believe for 261 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:18,239 Speaker 1: years my phone was my alarm. It's such a stupid 262 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: thing to do with Audue respect. It's so it's like, 263 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's like waking up and having a can 264 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: of coke there, Like it's just there's no way I 265 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: could resist the temptation. And I thought I was being 266 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: super efficient because I thought, you know, if I set 267 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: my arm for six fifteen, my kids typically wake up 268 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: a six forty five, I can do half an hour 269 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: of emails and wow, I'm super mom. And then they 270 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: wake up and everything's clear, and then I can have 271 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: their breakfast, make their life. You know, like listen to 272 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: the pace of it. There's no way you're going to 273 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: start your day and be able to Yeah, or some 274 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: people maybe, but not for me. 275 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 2: Was there a moment in time where you know, you 276 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 2: had your phone as your alarm and you're checking emails 277 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 2: first thing in the morning and I kind of dawns 278 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 2: on you what am I doing? Or was it a 279 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 2: gradual shift. 280 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: I think I realized it, but I didn't change the 281 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: behavior for a long time. I think I realized it 282 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: when I am really short sighted, so I have to 283 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: put my lenses into sea and I remember like the 284 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: having turning the phone on. I sleep with airplane mode, right, 285 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: So at least it wasn't dinging and ring, and it 286 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: was pitched back in the room. My husband's asleep, and 287 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: it's like what I appened to my face? And I'm 288 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: like what I haven't even put my lenses in, Like 289 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? Like this is not 290 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: how human beings are meant to wake up. My feet 291 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: haven't even touched the ground. And one of the things 292 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: I try. You know, I'm not a particularly religious person, but 293 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: every morning when my feet touched the ground, I try 294 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: and ask myself, like why am I doing this? One? 295 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: Am I grateful for? What do I want to achieve today? 296 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 1: And even I think that's my one minute mindfulness, that's 297 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: all I can do. But it's really you know, when 298 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: you come back to the end of the day and 299 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: you think, like did I do that to achieve that? 300 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: How a balance was I? And it's a for me, 301 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: it's been a form of self reflection that if you 302 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: keep missing it, there's probably something physical or time based 303 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 1: that you have to address to Maybe you don't have 304 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: enough support, or you don't have enough support the right 305 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: end of the day, maybe you're eating wrong. Whatever it is, 306 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: there's something structurally you can probably change. 307 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 2: So now I assume you've got an old fashioned alarm clock. 308 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: Next I do, yeah, and my son's learned how to 309 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: work it. So it went off like four am the 310 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: other day. 311 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: I was like the phone, got to love that. 312 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh wow. 313 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 2: And so you're saying, like it's really important to set 314 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 2: your day up well and how you wanted to flow. 315 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 2: And so with that, what time would you first check 316 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 2: your inbox or Twitter feed or Instagram feed on a 317 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 2: good day. 318 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: It's it's different now because I'm not in that writing mode. 319 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it really does switch, right, So there's no 320 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: way I stuck to these rules when I was on 321 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: the book tour. I mean, you're like responding to media inquiries. 322 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: So I think this is one of the key things 323 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: is you don't have to be in this state all 324 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: the time. But when you're working on a project that 325 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: has a massive artifact or just by design requires concentration, 326 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: you're going to have to redesign and restructure your day. 327 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: Now it looks quite different. So now I'm actually back 328 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: into this, like I'll do emails nine to ten, but 329 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: then I won't get into the habit. I'll turn it 330 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: off and then I'll probably check it again around four o'clock. 331 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: And people who know me and know who need to 332 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,160 Speaker 1: get hold of me, they will text me. So that's 333 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: the thing, Like, there are ways that people can get 334 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 1: hold of you if it's really truly time sensitive. That's 335 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: very disciplined. 336 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 2: So checking emails twice a day, Yeah, that's cool. I 337 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 2: want to switch gears and talk about presentations. Because you 338 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 2: do a lot of presenting, a lot of keynote speeches. 339 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 2: I would imagine that that's probably a large pat of 340 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 2: a typical week for you. 341 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: Would that be fair to say yes and no? So 342 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: the other thing I learned is that when you look 343 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: at when I look at my calendar, I should say, 344 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: and you can go, oh, right, like so I'm going 345 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: to do four speeches this month, and there's oh, it 346 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: looks so nice, evenly distributed, you know, one in Los Angeles, 347 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: one in Munich, like one per week. For me, it's 348 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: not the way to structure time because speeches they require Yes, 349 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,480 Speaker 1: you do it a lot, but they still require prep. 350 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: Then you've got the travel, then you've got the delivery, 351 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 1: and then you've got the return trip home. So unless 352 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: they're in domestic even if they're domestic, I mean they're 353 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: Melbourne based, it's four days so if you've got four speeches, 354 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: it's actually a month gone. So I've now found I 355 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: think of them as delivery weeks. I think of them 356 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: as sort of outwork facing weeks where I know I'm 357 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: going to be speaking and interacting with a lot of 358 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,880 Speaker 1: people and then I will have so I clustered them. 359 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: So like last week I had seven speeches, but I 360 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: won't do any now for three. And on the calendar 361 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: it's blocked teaching prep because I'm about to deliver a 362 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: new course at Oxford and that blocking has been and 363 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: the blocking I still don't think I've got right because 364 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: I've been blocking in weeks and I think I have 365 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: to be blocking in Fortnite fortnightly even though I'm not 366 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: working on another big book. So yeah, so like article 367 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: to write block and then I'll do like meeting days 368 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: as well. 369 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 2: Oh mmmmmm okay, that's so kind of batching it I 370 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 2: guess is yeah. Yeah, I want to look at how 371 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: how you prepare for a speech, and and I'm curious 372 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 2: as to how that's changed in the last five years, 373 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 2: because I've heard you talk about how you feel like 374 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 2: you've learnt so much around giving a good speech and 375 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 2: how you do prepare? 376 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: So can you talk me through what does that look like? 377 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: How do you prepare for a speech? So I think 378 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: the main I can't watch early speeches like it's quite 379 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: for me. I can see how clumsy they are. And 380 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: in terms of preparation, I've found that you can speak 381 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: to the event organizer and with all due respect, they 382 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: will tell you the number of people that's going to 383 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: be in the room, and they'll tell you what the 384 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: room's like, and they'll tell you what they wanted to 385 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: talk about. But then I always know if I'm talking 386 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 1: to the right person because I say, well, why do 387 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: you really want me there? And why have you put 388 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,480 Speaker 1: me in this particular slot? And how do you want 389 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 1: your audience to feel? And this was a really new 390 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: question that I started asking. And if they said I 391 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: don't really know, then you're not speaking to the right person. 392 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: You're not speaking to the person that said we should 393 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: have Rachel here. And so insisting that you have that 394 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: briefing with that person is really important because otherwis you're 395 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: going in dark. So that's been really key, is really 396 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: using briefings in the right kind of way. The fearing 397 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: question is really interesting because people can say well, I'll 398 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:42,959 Speaker 1: they often say, I want you to talk about trusting 399 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: the digital aid whatever that means. If you say, well, 400 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: how do you want people to feel, They're then really 401 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: thinking about the state of the audience, So they'll say 402 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 1: some people say I want them to feel challenged or 403 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: I want them to feel inspired. They're two really different speeches, 404 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: and there you get your guidance on tone and content 405 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: and delivery. So that's been really key, is the briefing. 406 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 1: I'll then put something together so I kind of have this. 407 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: It might be worth describing actually because people say, well, 408 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: how do you put speeches together? And I found so 409 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 1: I write blocks around particular examples and stories. So Facebook's 410 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: a really good example. A lot of you want me 411 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: to talk about Facebook because of Cambridge Analytica. And so 412 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: I'll have speaking points in a Google doc and then 413 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: every time I think of a new point or it 414 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: changes on stage, I edit that in the Google doc, 415 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,199 Speaker 1: and then I have a slide library that is like 416 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,360 Speaker 1: if you saw the organization, it's so anal like it's 417 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: just it's quite I actually it's quite beautiful in terms 418 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: of information design, not to I didn't do it so, 419 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: but it makes it so easy that I can look 420 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,679 Speaker 1: at it, and I think it comes from writing, is 421 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 1: that you're literally, oh, pull that story, and I'll pull 422 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: that story. So how's that organized? 423 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 2: That slide file? 424 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: Can you kind a future of that? So it's on 425 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: drop Box practically, and like the highest folder. So my 426 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 1: previous work was all called sharing, so that's all in 427 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: one thing. And then the new work's called trust. And 428 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: then you go in and it will have like core concepts. 429 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: And then you go into core concepts and it will 430 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,160 Speaker 1: have like core things that I've written about that sort 431 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: of my ideas, so like trust leaps being one of them, 432 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: or risk propensity or whatever it is, trust evolution. And 433 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: then you go into that folder and it's got all 434 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: the slides and stories attached to that concept. Another folder 435 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: will have other people's quotes, so these are other people 436 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,159 Speaker 1: that I find interesting that have spoken about vulnerability or 437 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: trust or risk. Another folder will be all organized by company. Example, 438 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: so Uber will have a folder, Facebook will half a folder, 439 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: EB and B will have a folder. This is what 440 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: I mean. And then so and things can live in 441 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: two places, but only two places. That's another rule because 442 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: otherwise you end up with too much duplication. And then 443 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: I have a really important folder which is evolving ideas, 444 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: and these are things that it's really as I'm saying, 445 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: this material being tested. So this is these ideas I'm 446 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: testing on the stage that I know are not right 447 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: material ready to be designed. And this is when i've 448 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: I know it's working. So Jerry Seinfeld describes it as fishing. 449 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: So as a comedian, you fish and you feel when 450 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: you've got a bite, and the work that you do 451 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: on stage is turn that bite into actually catching the fish. 452 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: And then for me, because slides and stories are so important, 453 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: I then can get to the stage of I know 454 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: how this is visualized. I know not loving this is great. 455 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: So there's a real process behind it. So it makes 456 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: it really easy because and I have a rule where 457 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: I always test something new in a speech always, but 458 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: if you're testing more than twenty percent, it's not going 459 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: to go great. So when organizers say I want something 460 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: completely new, I'm like, you don't like this has taking years, 461 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: Like it takes about ten speeches to get one point, 462 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: like to know how to land it. So this is 463 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: like one thing I say to people when they're giving speeches, 464 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: like I'm like, so you think you're going to stand 465 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: up there, and a lot of people just read the 466 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: speech in their head as well. They won't even read 467 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: it out loud, and you think it's going to come 468 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: out like a ted talk, like with all tier respect, 469 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: Like this is ten thousand hours of practice, right, it's 470 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: really getting to a place where you can have no 471 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: notes because the story is it's in you. The points 472 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: are in you. So it's a long winter way of 473 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: they're saying, So I'll put together and then I won't 474 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,200 Speaker 1: think about it, and then I'll come back to it, 475 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: and then you have to send it usually in a 476 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: couple of days in advance, which is silly exercise because 477 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: then on the way there you're really refining the points 478 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: and so. And then I get there and I'm usually 479 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 1: can I add a slide or move a slide? 480 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, definitely, How do you translate what the organizer 481 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: will say about I want people feeling this way with 482 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 2: picking out the points and the slides, like in your system, 483 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 2: have you got emotion tags as well? 484 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: That's a really good question. No, I don't have emotion tags. 485 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,239 Speaker 1: But so last week I was with one of the 486 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,640 Speaker 1: banks that's in the Royal Commission and it was a 487 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: really tough speech because you're talking about trust in a 488 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: company where trust is in crisis. So you look at 489 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: some of the stories and you're like, I can't use 490 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: that because it's funny, or I can't you know, it 491 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: actually takes material off the table, which can be quite helpful. 492 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: And the other strange thing you find. I mean, it's 493 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: just like writing music, right. You could open with this 494 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: story and then finish this story, and then in another 495 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: speech you flip those things so your closes you're opening, 496 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: and they will feel completely different. The bookmarking is key, 497 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: so knowing how you're going to open and knowing how 498 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,959 Speaker 1: you're going to close, and I you know, I've been 499 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: in audiences where people Simon Sinik's a great example where 500 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: they're like, I've seen him open like that five times, 501 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 1: like it's a criticism, and I'm like, because he knows 502 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: exactly where to take the audience from that point. It's 503 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: like his opening melody and he's grounding himself on the 504 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: stage and you will always go somewhere quite different because 505 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: he's listening and he's feeding off what's going on in 506 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 1: the room. So I think the number of opening stories 507 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: you can have is quite limited. But where you go 508 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: from that, that's the black canvas. Hmmm, that's really interesting. 509 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 2: I want to talk about how you prioritize incoming requests. 510 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 2: I imagine, because of your profile, you're probably getting a 511 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,479 Speaker 2: lot of people asking you for things to write, things 512 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,439 Speaker 2: to say, things to be part of things. How do 513 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 2: you decide what to say yes to versus what to 514 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: say no to? 515 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,080 Speaker 1: It's funny. It's one of my goals I've been working 516 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: on this year, not saying no, but finding myself less 517 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 1: in situations where I'm like, why did I say yes? 518 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 1: To be honest, when there's an email that can I 519 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: pick your brain or it's really really long. I get 520 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: a lot of requests from students doing masters or dissertations 521 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: that aren't part of the course that I teach that 522 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: you have to say no to, and I always try 523 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: and direct them to a resource. I always try and 524 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: close the loop and be helpful. You also get a sense, 525 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: I'm getting a better sense when someone's quite hard to 526 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: shut down, and then being more comfortable that you don't 527 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: have to be the person to reply, so you put 528 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 1: that on someone on your team. But the thing that 529 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: I've really started to ask myself is what is the 530 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: intentions of this person, or why are they asking me 531 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: to write this piece? Why they asked me to do 532 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: this interview? And if there's an alignment. So you really 533 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: believe in what this person's doing and you think it's 534 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: good for your work and you think it's interesting, then 535 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,720 Speaker 1: you consider it does that make sense? So I think 536 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: sometimes you're like, oh, can you get can you write 537 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: a piece for the Guardian? Okay? And you're like, oh, yeah, 538 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: you know New York Times should totally do that, But 539 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: then you know they are really good. Example is they 540 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 1: might be pushing for an op ed on Facebook that's 541 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: completely contrary to your opinion, and you get halfway through 542 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: and you're battling with the editor and you're thinking, well, 543 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: why didn't I ask them where they were coming from? 544 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: Because then you have to abandon ship midway through. So 545 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: being okay, just saying no to people that really actually 546 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: don't manue your time because they're just saying pick your brain, 547 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: finding a way to help people when they shut them down, 548 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: and also making you know, a clean no, how do 549 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: you do that? So often it's better when it doesn't 550 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: come from me. She's just not available, no reason. Mmmmm. 551 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 552 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: So this will be your assistant, don't. Yeah, especially with 553 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: speaking of request, because if you say something like given something, 554 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: I'm really sorry she can't attend. What is that? Why? 555 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: Or like if we sweeten the deal? 556 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 2: Was she? 557 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: You know? And then you have to ask yourself, you know, 558 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: if they come back and they said X and then 559 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: they double the amount, you've put yourself in a very 560 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: tricky situation because then you you've said no, and then 561 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: you're showing all money can actually change that, which is 562 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: not good for anyone then really, you know. The other 563 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: thing on the calendar is like absolute no go days kids, 564 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 1: first day of school, like all these things. It doesn't 565 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: matter what it is. It's different for different people. No 566 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: go days are no go days, and sometimes you have 567 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: to invent a nogay day, you know, like if someone 568 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: doesn't really if it's a really tricky no, I'm really sorry. 569 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: But one of the kids is the lead in a play. 570 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 3: I love it. 571 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: I love it. 572 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 2: And do you have like any parenting hacks that you've 573 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 2: learned as a working mother that just serve to help 574 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 2: things run a lot more smoothly at home. You've got 575 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: you've got two kids under five? 576 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: Is that right? I got year six and four. Do 577 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: you know. The funny thing is, I think the hats 578 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: get harder as they get older because they get smarter. 579 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: I think when they're under the age of three is 580 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: distraction hacks and they don't have a sense of time, 581 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: so you can make it up to them. I've realized 582 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: even now, you know in six is such a beautiful age. 583 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: But they start to develop empathy. They do have an 584 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: awareness of the day of the week. So consistency as 585 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: much as you can is I found is really important. 586 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: So knowing them knowing when I can pick them up 587 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: from school is a big one. So it's on you 588 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: know when Mummy's going to pick you up, the way 589 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: you spend that time, So like five to seven is 590 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: their time. And I always find the wills come off 591 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: if you organize something you think you can squeeze it in, 592 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: because then they're like, I waited for this time. You 593 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: know you're it's not fair to them, you're really cheating. 594 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: So it's obvious thing, but being present when you're really 595 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: present is quite key. I am. I think the one 596 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,959 Speaker 1: thing I've really got right is I'm very protective of 597 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: my weekends, so I really one try not to work 598 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: on the weekends and they know that I'm always there, 599 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: holidays are not always possible, and then getting really smart 600 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: around where you need support and not feeling guilty about 601 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: that is it's so easy to say, it's really hard 602 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: to do, and even finding the right kind of support 603 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 1: and the right person that doesn't support you and doesn't 604 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: judge you. My son is also becoming more and more 605 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:49,479 Speaker 1: interested in my work, so I find showing him things 606 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: saying this was a this was really exciting, that said, oh, 607 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: I've got to go and do I've got to go 608 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: on a plane and do this thing. So I've got 609 00:33:57,600 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: to go to asthma next week is a really good example. 610 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,959 Speaker 1: So I've been talking to him about mountains and what 611 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: he thinks mountains look like in summer and what an 612 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,479 Speaker 1: ideas festival is, what does he think that is And 613 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: so he now wants me take photos of the mountains 614 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,240 Speaker 1: to see if it's you can engage them in your 615 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 1: journey without them being physically there's that's lovely. Yeah. 616 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 2: I was in Vancouver for work a couple of months ago, 617 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 2: and in the lead up we're talking about what are 618 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: the animals in Canada? And I bought my daughter's for 619 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 2: this toy moose, and I take photos of it, like 620 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 2: having a drink and on the toilet and just kind 621 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 2: of building up this story about this moose. And then 622 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 2: when I got home, it was so much excitement and yeah, 623 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 2: just sort of something something to kind of share about 624 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 2: where you were, Like, yeah, yeah. 625 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: They don't understand you're tired. That hack does not. So 626 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,800 Speaker 1: I always if I'm really honest with them, and I 627 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: say that I'm just really tired. Can you give me 628 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 1: a break or can you just follow the instruction because 629 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 1: I've nothing left? They're like, I don't care whether you're tired. 630 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: So true, So true. 631 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 2: I had one question before we move into kind of 632 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 2: some rapid fire finished questions, thinking about how you work. 633 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 2: What's something that would surprise people about what you do, 634 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:19,759 Speaker 2: how you do what you do and get. 635 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: It done, surprised people how visual it is. I think 636 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: that's I don't start in words, I start in pictures 637 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: and concepts. And I think this because I was trained 638 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: as an artist. You know, that's so I studied fine arts. 639 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: I did. I study fine arts, So I will often 640 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,919 Speaker 1: like so at the moment, I'm researching the relationship between 641 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: transparency and trust. If you read the academic papers like 642 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: bored and turned off and completely confused within like with nautry, 643 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 1: respect about three hours. But if you actually start to 644 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: look at how transparencies represented and architecture and how it's 645 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:07,360 Speaker 1: represented in films and design, and you start to create 646 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,879 Speaker 1: this board and ideas start to emerge. So the process 647 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: is extremely visual, even though the output is more wordspace. 648 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 2: That's very interesting. I love that. Okay, let's finish with 649 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 2: some rapid fire questions about what are the things that 650 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 2: you're consuming, because I think that something that people struggle 651 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 2: with is that there's so much information out there and 652 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 2: it's hard to know what is the best stuff to 653 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 2: feed into your brain. So to start with podcasts, what's 654 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 2: a podcast or two that you're really loving At the moment. 655 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: I'm almost empowrassed to admit this. I'm listening to Where 656 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: should we begin? By Esther Parrell. I think it's a 657 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,799 Speaker 1: really I started listening to it for format, not for 658 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: relationship advice, but this idea that you could let listeners 659 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: into a very private window, and that she's kind of 660 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: this pattern. She does pat and recognition right, so she 661 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 1: recognizes what's going on between the couples and she's explaining 662 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: that to you. And then I got like really absorbed 663 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: in it because I don't know if you've listened to it. Yeah, 664 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 1: I mean it's restored my faith in the ability of 665 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:27,640 Speaker 1: relationships of all kinds to rescue and be restored out 666 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: of all kinds of places of pain and anger. And 667 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: so the power of really talking and listening. I think 668 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,760 Speaker 1: what that to each other is what that podcast is about, 669 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 1: versus affairs and relationships. So I love Guy Rass. I 670 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: think he's genius at what he does on NPR. So 671 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: how I built this is just great. I love those 672 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: They're great for the bus. I was actually listening to 673 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:59,320 Speaker 1: Adam Grant's Work Life, Work Life. I really enjoyed Revisionist History. 674 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: Malcolm Gladwell was first season, didn't quite get into the 675 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: second season, and now I found actually, I'm listening to 676 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: a mixture of audible books, audio books and podcasts. So 677 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm listening to Jordan Peterson's Ten Laws or something. It's 678 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: very dark. And then this is going to sound really weird, 679 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,479 Speaker 1: but I will listen to books that I read. Why 680 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:31,200 Speaker 1: is that? So I'm listening to Yva Harari Sapiens, which 681 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: I must have read twelve months ago. It's either because 682 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: you're like, I think I've forgotten something that was quite key, 683 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,280 Speaker 1: But when you listen, you pick up a different thread. 684 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,920 Speaker 1: So for me, the thread that I've picked up, I 685 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: think you hear it at a more macro level then 686 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: you read things. So as I'm listening to it, I've 687 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,439 Speaker 1: picked up this idea that you know, when you create 688 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: a digital tool and society becomes more efficient, then civilization 689 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 1: becomes smarter about how to use that time. And if 690 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 1: you look through the history of time, every time we've 691 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: created something that is a device or a tool to 692 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 1: make things more efficient, man has not filled that time wisely. 693 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: And that's so interesting, right because when everyone's like, oh, 694 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: this addiction to technology, and it's like, what innately human 695 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,439 Speaker 1: beings have We got this desire to automate make things 696 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,720 Speaker 1: more efficient, but we can't be still and be bored 697 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: and rest. There's this innate quest to feel time. So 698 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: that's what I've got from listening to the book. Mmm, 699 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: I like that. That's really cool. E newsletters. 700 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 2: Are there any E newsletters that you subscribed to that 701 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 2: you actually look forward to receiving? 702 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: There's one, what is that Lucky one? And you generally 703 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: hate them, really do. I don't know why it's Jesse Hemple, 704 00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: she writes for Wired. I think you have to be 705 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: selected to go on her list, so she knows that. 706 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: I think she's only ever writing for about two hundred people, 707 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: and it's not promotional in any way. She literally says, 708 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: here's the five most interesting things I've read this month. 709 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: And she has a radar across topics and publications that 710 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: are very different from my own. Here's the one thing 711 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 1: I've written. I think it's like, here's something I heard 712 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: that completely disagreed with. She's not asking for feedback. It's 713 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,480 Speaker 1: very much one way, and so I think what the 714 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:39,480 Speaker 1: reason why it works is she knows exactly the purpose 715 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: of that newsletter that she reads. Really why write widely, 716 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: and that people want that kind of curated information. It's 717 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: not laid out in any way. It's all text based. 718 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: So I find that. Yeah, but generally newsletders just feel 719 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: self promotional. 720 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 2: I like the idea of a curated a list that 721 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 2: it's being said to Wow, yeah, that's that's very cool. 722 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 2: Do you then forward that onto a lot of people. 723 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: You're not allowed to, you know, that's one of the things. 724 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,279 Speaker 2: You know you're in the club, and yeah, you can't 725 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 2: let anyone else in. 726 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 1: That's that's really interesting. Finally, books, what's what's a good book? 727 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 2: A physical book or a kindle book that you've read 728 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 2: lately that. 729 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: You got a lot out of. I don't do a kindle. 730 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,799 Speaker 1: It's always had coffee. Well, I have to read a 731 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 1: lot of proofs because people ask for blurves, which it's 732 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: a privileged because you're seeing the book in its world states. 733 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:39,280 Speaker 1: So then I have to read the PDF or audio. 734 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: What have I read recently? So I'm reading on my 735 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: best table at the moment, I'm reading New Power book 736 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: by guy called Jeremy Hyman's and Henry Timms. It's very 737 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: closely related to my works. So it's about how power 738 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: is moving from institutions to these distributed movements and models, 739 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 1: and it's really interesting. I just received a copy of 740 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:10,879 Speaker 1: Hugh Mackay's new book. I'm rereading a book called More 741 00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: Human by Steve Hilton, because I'm really interested about size 742 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,799 Speaker 1: and scale, when things lose their humanness and whether there's 743 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:24,080 Speaker 1: kind of a perfect state around that. I have the 744 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: Jennifer Egan book Manhattan Beach, So the way I read. 745 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,800 Speaker 1: I should explain I read one thing through to completion, 746 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,320 Speaker 1: and then I'm dipping into other things. So I'll probably 747 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:43,240 Speaker 1: get through four or five books a month. That's pretty good. Wow, 748 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: that's not and that's and then I'll have work reading 749 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,399 Speaker 1: as well I have to do. That's cool. 750 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 2: Well, great recommendations. Well, thank you so much, Rachel. I. 751 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,479 Speaker 2: I loved learning about how you work. 752 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: It's awesome. Now it makes me say I'm really attentive. 753 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,120 Speaker 1: It's more fluent that It's just it's the organization of 754 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: information people. I think when you lose work, you then 755 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,120 Speaker 1: have to spend a lot of time recreating it. So 756 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: how you capture Even after every speech, I write notes 757 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 1: on what went wrong and what went right because you 758 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:18,719 Speaker 1: think it's going to stay in your mind and it 759 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 1: won't even a week later. So that's that's probably my 760 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,239 Speaker 1: biggest tip is how you document what you've learned, what 761 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,880 Speaker 1: you change, and really good organization of your information is 762 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,800 Speaker 1: really key. I love it. Well, I'm going to go 763 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,719 Speaker 1: away and reorganize my slide. Dick. 764 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 2: Hello there, thank you so much for listening to today's episode. 765 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 2: Have you got some really useful tips and the insights 766 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 2: that you're going to fly in your own life. And 767 00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:47,640 Speaker 2: before you go, I just have. 768 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: One more thing to ask. 769 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,120 Speaker 3: I would love it if you're enjoying How I Work, 770 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 3: if you'd like to give it a review in iTunes 771 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,440 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your podcast might be a 772 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,920 Speaker 3: star rating or writing some words on what you think 773 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 3: about How I Work. 774 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:05,080 Speaker 1: I read every. 775 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 2: Single review and they've all been delight all so far 776 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,680 Speaker 2: and bring a huge smile to my face. And also, 777 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 2: if you're enjoying How I Work, make sure you let 778 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 2: other people know about it that you think could also 779 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,600 Speaker 2: benefit from some of the tips that my guests share. 780 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,440 Speaker 2: So that is it for today and I'll see you 781 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 2: next time.