1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os It's Thursday, 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: the eighth of February. 9 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm Sam. 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: Have you ever left work only to find yourself getting 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: a call from your boss an hour later? Or what 12 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 2: about sitting having brunch on a Saturday only to get 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: an email from your manager? In twenty twenty four, we 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 2: are more connected than ever and that has obvious benefits 15 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 2: in all areas of our lives. But on the flip 16 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: side of that, there's also a growing concern that this 17 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 2: interconnectedness means that employees can't actually ever switch off from 18 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: work from their bosses. So in today's deep dive, we're 19 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 2: discussing the proposed right to disconnect laws and what they 20 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: might mean for you. We'll get to that in a second, 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 2: but first sam the headlines. 22 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 3: The Federal Senate Inquiry into supermarket prices has received its 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 3: first submission from Coals. The thirty three page document includes 24 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: financial statements, details about how Coals engages with suppliers and 25 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 3: measures its taking to lower its prices Instead. A key 26 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 3: factor driving increased grocery costs has been price increased requests 27 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 3: from suppliers and farmers. It also blamed rising prices on 28 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: growing energy, labour, logistics, packaging, interest and tax costs. Woolworth's 29 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 3: is yet to make a submission. 30 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: The federal government's travel safety service Smart Traveler, has asked 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: ozsi's to quote exercise a high degree of caution if 32 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: they're heading to Bali ahead of Indonesia's elections next week. 33 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: It's warned there could be protests and rallies in the 34 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: coming days as Indonesians prepare to elect a new president, 35 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: a new parliament, and new local authorities. Protests turned deadly 36 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 2: the last time Indonesia went to an election in twenty nineteen. 37 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 3: An official EU body has moved to scrap plans that 38 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 3: would have required farmers to have their use of pesticides. 39 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 3: The European Commission decision comes after pressure from farmers during 40 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 3: widespread protests across Europe, Farmers called for less regulation and 41 00:02:27,280 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 3: better wages. When announcing its decision to scrap the pesticide proposal, 42 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 3: the President of the EU Commission acknowledged, quote farmers produced 43 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 3: the highest quality food in the world and they must 44 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 3: be paid fairly. 45 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 2: And today's good news. The West African country of Bekina 46 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: Faso has announced a rollout of the malaria vaccine. It 47 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: comes after nearby Cameroon became the first country in the 48 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: world to launch a national malaria vaccine program just last month. 49 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 2: Immunizations for two hundred and fifty thousand children in regions 50 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: hardest hit by the mesquit borne virus will commence this week. 51 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 2: So today we are talking about an employee's right to 52 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 2: disconnect from work during their personal time. And the reason 53 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: that we're talking about this is because a federal Senate 54 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 2: committee has recommended that this right to disconnect, as it's called, 55 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 2: should be protected by Australian law. It's secured the backing 56 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 2: of Prime Minister Anthony Alberizi, who just yesterday said, and 57 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 2: I quote, we're simply saying someone who's not being paid 58 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: twenty four hours a day shouldn't be penalized if they're 59 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: not online and available twenty four hours a day. Now, Sam, 60 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 2: I think that before we go any further, I do 61 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 2: just want to acknowledge that. 62 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: We are employers, we are not employees. 63 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: And so I think that our position on this topic 64 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 2: will be different I guess to a lot of other 65 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: people's and that any discussion that we have going on 66 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: about this, that that is the context in which we 67 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: think about this law. 68 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 3: But we're proposed law, right, But we're cool employers were 69 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 3: not grumpy old managers when new employers were new to 70 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 3: this idea of we are people's work life balance. 71 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: Interestingly, also, we both also only had short stints as 72 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 2: employees as like very junior employees too. We went from 73 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 2: being very junior employees to suddenly being employers. And so 74 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 2: I do think that we can see both sides of this, obviously, 75 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 2: but I do just want to recognize where we're at. 76 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 3: No, it's a really interesting topic. I'm keen for this conversation. 77 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: Why don't we start a couple of steps back? Why 78 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 3: are we talking about the right to disconnect? 79 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: So the government has been working on a tranch of 80 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: industrial relations bills, and that just basically means laws that 81 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: would change some workplace rules. Now, part of that legislation 82 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: passed through Parliament last year, and that was in a 83 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 2: bill that included things like criminalizing wage theft. We reported 84 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: on that at the time, but the government ended up 85 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: splitting off some of the other workplace laws from that 86 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 2: bill to pass it through separately. And that's where we're 87 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: at now with the government looking to introduce another piece 88 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 2: of legislation to base get the rest done. And as 89 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: part of that discussion, the right to disconnect has come 90 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 2: up as this concept that a Senate committee has recommended 91 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 2: should be part of any changes. 92 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 3: Is the right to disconnect? As simple as it sounds, 93 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 3: is it just? Is it just the right to disconnect? 94 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: I do think that it's one of the very few 95 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: things we are talking about in a political arena that 96 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: actually says what it means. 97 00:05:21,440 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 3: It's quite freshing, very helpful. 98 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 2: So according to the committee, I'm going to quote here, 99 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: one aspect of work life balance that needs to be 100 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 2: protected is the right to disconnect from our workplaces outside 101 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 2: of regulated hours. The committee then goes on to specify 102 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 2: that the intensification of workloads in industries, and then it 103 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 2: specifies these two industries, like policing and teaching, is being 104 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: cited as one of the reasons that people are leaving 105 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 2: their jobs en mass. And so the committee noted some 106 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 2: of the experiences that are behind their calls for a 107 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: right to disconnect. One of those was the experience of teachers, 108 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: and there was an acknowledgment that there is this increasing 109 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,839 Speaker 2: pressure for teachers to be accessible to students and parents 110 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,839 Speaker 2: at all hours. When I was reading about this, I 111 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: actually was thinking, and if any of my teachers are listening, 112 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry about how often, for example, during year 113 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 2: eleven and twelve, I would just email my teachers and 114 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: just like you're in Panixation and you think you're the 115 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: most important person in the world, You're not thinking about 116 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: the other forty fifty sixty kids who are also emailing 117 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 2: their teacher, of course, with you know, their last minute 118 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: questions before an exam. 119 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,119 Speaker 3: And we also know that's a common experience in health. 120 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 3: I mean there's a number of sectors this can apply to. 121 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, And obviously it goes without saying that this technological 122 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 2: advancement that we've seen over the last decade has just 123 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: made it so much easier, you know, I know that 124 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,239 Speaker 2: there are some students who even have their teachers mobile numbers. 125 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 2: And if there is no turning off, if there is 126 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: no disconnect between your physical place of work and your 127 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 2: personal life, it does have significant outcomes for teachers. And 128 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: I think that when you think you have access to 129 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 2: someone or something twenty fours, that's when problems arise. So 130 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 2: that was one of the examples behind why the committee 131 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: thought it was appropriate. Another one that they highlighted was 132 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 2: the experience of frontline workers of police and there was 133 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 2: talking about the fact that first responders really need what 134 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: they labeled breathing. 135 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: Space, time to decompress from yeah. 136 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: Well they're seeing you know, ambulance workers, police workers are 137 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:25,239 Speaker 2: going to work ultimately witnessing pretty horrific events more often 138 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 2: than not. Think about what a paramedic in any given 139 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: day is seeing and then if they're getting contacted out 140 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: of ours or being asked to do work out of ours, 141 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: when are they given the space to decompress? When are 142 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: they given the space to deal with whatever they've seen 143 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: during the shift. And so that was another experience that 144 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 2: was highlighted in this committee report. 145 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 3: So the report really spelled out those qualitative impacts of 146 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 3: not being able to switch off? Are there any numbers 147 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 3: that actually back up those individual experiences with a trend? 148 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: So the Center for Future Work, which is based out 149 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: of the Australia Institute, I believe it published or of 150 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 2: Who in November last year, and I think we actually 151 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: reported on it anyway. So that went into the scale 152 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: of unpaid overtime worked by Australians and it found on 153 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: average that employees performed five point four hours of unpaid 154 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 2: work in the week of the survey. So that's roughly 155 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: the equivalent to seventeen percent of total working hours. And 156 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: so what the Center found was that that equates to 157 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty one hours per year per worker 158 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 2: of unpaid work, which the Australian Institute estimates is more 159 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 2: than one hundred and thirty billion dollars of lost income 160 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 2: per year. I do think that when we're looking at 161 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 2: the numbers, though, we do need to see that it's 162 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 2: not black and white and that not every situation is 163 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: the same there, Okay, So. 164 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 3: The challenge ahead of us, not only you and I 165 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 3: as employees, but then legislators and the people who are 166 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 3: reading these numbers and reports is how do you actually 167 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: fix that, and so what's your sense of how the 168 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 3: law could respond. 169 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 2: Well, firstly, it would be the first national protection of 170 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,960 Speaker 2: the right to disconnect. So at the moment, there are 171 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 2: some industries in some workplaces that do have some sort 172 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: of measure that protects employee hours and expectations, but there's 173 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 2: nothing really sitting above. More broadly, for Australia, we wouldn't 174 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: be the first country though, to make these directions. So 175 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: there are other places places like France, Italy and Spain. 176 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: When researching on this topic, it seems like France is 177 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: kind of the big example that people point to. 178 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 3: So how's it work there? 179 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: For example, Well, they're the right to disconnect is a 180 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: requirement for big businesses bigger, sorry, bigger than us, so 181 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: fifty people or more, and there it's for formulating policies 182 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: about digital communication outside of the working hours, so exactly 183 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 2: what we've just spoken about. But the legislators there recognize 184 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: what I think is going to be a very big 185 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 2: issue in actually legislating this, which is that you can't 186 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 2: do a one size fits all. So what's happened in 187 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 2: France is that individual employers, business by business have had 188 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 2: to negotiate what this looks like for them. And you know, 189 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 2: there are lots of cases of this when it comes 190 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 2: to IR law because businesses look and feel and operate 191 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 2: so differently and across sectors that you can't possibly put 192 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 2: a blanket rule on everyone. But then comes the personal 193 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: responsibility element. So stepping away from France and back here, 194 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: the way that the committee has recommended it works is 195 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 2: that awards and enterprise agreements do include the right to disconnect, 196 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,079 Speaker 2: and that it's the Fair Work Commission who gets special 197 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 2: powers to deal with any disputes that arise. 198 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 3: Okay, So the last time the government tried to implement 199 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 3: changes to the workplace, the irbill got a fair bit 200 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 3: of opposition. What do we know about the attitudes that 201 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 3: exist within Parliament House towards these kind of ideas. 202 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: So the Coalition senators have opposed the reforms. They said 203 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: that the reform wouldn't support workers, employers or job growth, 204 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 2: So they're saying this is not the right tool and 205 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: that actually would disadvantage those parties. The Greens have been 206 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 2: a big proponent of this, and they with allowing ossies 207 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 2: to turn off technology that quote ties them to work, 208 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 2: and they think that it will help to reduce those 209 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: unpaid overtime hours that I cited before. They think that 210 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 2: this is the answer for bringing down those hours. Crucially, 211 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: the government doesn't have enough votes in the Senate to 212 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: pass legislation in its own right, so they need to 213 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: rely on cross benches, the Greens being some cross benches, 214 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 2: others being independents. So we've heard from David Pocock who 215 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: said he wants to see further consultation before legislating the 216 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 2: right to disconnect. He said that he's anxious about unintended 217 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 2: consequences with this type of law. And in the same 218 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: vein we had Jackie Lamby, another important independent, with concerns 219 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: around parts of the reform that could cause harm to 220 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 2: businesses and employers. All right, so Sam, what do you think. 221 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 3: I think this fits into the wider discussion that's happening 222 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 3: in workplaces across the country. The future of work about flexibility, 223 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 3: and for me, it's about employees being able to own 224 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 3: the way that they're working. And the way that this 225 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 3: discussion fits into that is we run a news company. 226 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 3: If something happens at ten pm that is major, international, 227 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: huge news, we have a duty to our listeners and 228 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 3: to our readers to cover that well, and that might 229 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 3: mean being contacted outside of ours, but I'd hope that 230 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 3: in a good company culture that we strive to have, 231 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 3: that you could come in late the next morning. And 232 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 3: so I don't know if a blanket ban on being 233 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 3: contacted after ours is the best for a news company. 234 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 3: I think it could definitely work in other circumstances. But 235 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 3: I do think employers have a duty to be nuanced 236 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 3: in the way that they're tailoring their workplace to their employees. 237 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 3: And it's different for every industry. I don't know, it's 238 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 3: a weird one out of ours thing. What do you think. 239 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: I really feel like I have had this collapsing with 240 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: my personal and my work, especially in the last couple 241 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: of years, and I find that really hard, Like I 242 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 2: have no spaces that distinguish work from home or work 243 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 2: from personal, and so I really really empathize with how 244 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 2: important it is to do that, to carve out those spaces. 245 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 2: I do think that it is You're right, it's a 246 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 2: conversation around flexibility, because I think that as we become 247 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 2: more flexible in our working arrangements, if we are inviting 248 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 2: work into the home, for example, in a working from 249 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: home environment, but then saying that it needs to be 250 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: very clearly delineated. I do think that that's challenging to designate, 251 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: and I do think that that's challenging. But I spoke 252 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 2: to a couple members of the team who were saying 253 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 2: that their friends, who are, you know, starting out in 254 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 2: retail or they're starting out in any number of industries, 255 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: think that they have no choice but to put in 256 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: those extra unpaid hours because they won't get ahead any 257 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 2: other way, and that their employer will set them back 258 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: if they don't answer the phone at ten pm because 259 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 2: their colleagues do, and you know, they're in their first 260 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 2: job and they don't know how to act. And I 261 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: think in those examples, this would be a really beneficial 262 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 2: and a really productive thing to have in place. How 263 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 2: you actually legislate it, I mean, like you, we're not 264 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: the government. I think it's challenging, and I think that 265 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 2: leaving it down to each business leaves room for interpretation 266 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 2: and could be a difficult kind of enforcement mechanism. But 267 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: I think it's a good place to start. 268 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 3: That's all we've got time for on today's episode of 269 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 3: The Daily OS fascinating discussion. I'd love to know what 270 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 3: you guys think out there in your workplaces and your context, 271 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 3: because I do think nuance and industry specific requirements is 272 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: a big part of this conversation. So you can leave 273 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: a comment, you can email us, you can hit us 274 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 3: up on Instagram at the Daily Ohs. We'll be back 275 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 3: again tomorrow morning. Until then, have a great day. 276 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: Already. And this this is the daily This is the 277 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: Daily Ohs. 278 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 3: Oh Now it makes sense.