1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: It's Will Woody. Hey, it is Will and what he 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: brought to you by NAB A little bit of content 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: warning on this as we are talking about that rating 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: system that a bunch of boys drew up at Yarrow 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: Valley Grammar earlier in the week. One of the categories 6 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: within that as their raid of the girls in the year, 7 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: was unrapable. This led to a very important conversation that 8 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: we had on the airwaves, including a woman called doctor 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: Stephanie Westcott who called the show. She's lecture and Education 10 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: culture at Monash University, interested in the education of young 11 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: men and how they get to the point where they're 12 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: objectifying women, and we're having this great conversation with her. 13 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: We had lots of women call the show, and then 14 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: she made the point that there were no men calling. 15 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: You know, the host of this show, Will and what 16 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: you are doing an amazing job of leading this conversation. 17 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 2: But it's worth noting too that both the callers who've 18 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: had so far has been women asking how do we 19 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: do a better job, how do we teach our sons, 20 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: how do we teach our boys? Men have to be 21 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: part of this conversation. They haven't been in your callers 22 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: so far. That doesn't mean that there's not some men 23 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: on the line. 24 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 3: I can tell you step that I'm looking at all 25 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 3: the calls coming through. They're all women. Well, I think 26 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 3: that's a. 27 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: Fascinating point just made. 28 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: All right, So yeah, specifically asked for men to call 29 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 3: because we didn't hear from any men yesterday on the show, 30 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: and I am I'm boyed to see that we do 31 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 3: have a lot of men calling now. I don't know 32 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 3: what their views are at this point. To be fair, 33 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 3: we've got Mitchell here. Mitchell, how are you feeling about 34 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 3: everything that's going on? 35 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 4: It frustrates the hell out of me, it really does. 36 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 4: The bottom line is we're all looking at the wrong problem. 37 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 4: The problem is us, the adults to Dad's, the guys 38 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,960 Speaker 4: that were raised in that atmosphere. Our sons learn off us, 39 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 4: joking with our mates, joking with our brothers, degrading women. 40 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 4: We've grew up listening to Dad. That's how we do it. 41 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 4: We've got to get to a point where our sons 42 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 4: look at us and go, well, Dad doesn't degrade women. 43 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 4: That doesn't talk about women like that. My uncle doesn't 44 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 4: do things like that, And they need to grow up 45 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 4: that if they do. We tastise them as the far 46 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 4: not the mothers, the fathers. This is unacceptable, This is 47 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 4: not what a man in this generation does. You treat 48 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 4: women the way you treat your daughter, and if they're 49 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 4: raised that way, that's going to eradicate this problem. Yeah, well, 50 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 4: we're putting too much pressure on the children when it's 51 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 4: the father's job to treat in those sons, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. 52 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 4: It frustrates me that everything that goes on. I've got 53 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 4: two daughters. I'd hate for this to happen to them. 54 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 4: And it was one of my boys, they wouldn't walk 55 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 4: right for a week. But these are things we need 56 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 4: to be trained into our sons, our children. 57 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think. 58 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: And that's the point that doctor Stephanie made yesterday if 59 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: you miss the doctor Stephanie Wescott joined us and said 60 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: that these boys it's too it's almost too late to 61 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: it's never too late, but you get to the point 62 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: where they are sixteen, seven and eighten. Two of these 63 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: boys have been expelled, and as I said yesterday, look 64 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: there's got to be some sort of punishment. But it 65 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 1: makes me sad that that is you get to the 66 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: point where I think it's lazy, that we don't have 67 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: other ways of itting them earlier so they don't go 68 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: down this path, which is almost it has to be said, 69 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: having been a teenage boy at a school, inevitable that 70 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: you will get to that point. I think one of 71 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: the top comments on our Instagram and TikTok videos was 72 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: just who leaked the boys WhatsApp thread? Because we all 73 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 1: know that that's what goes on. 74 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 3: As Mitchell said, I think it's such a good point, Mitchell, 75 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 3: it's got to start before going to school. You go 76 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 3: to school at five six, Yeah, from zero to five. 77 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 4: Teach everything else ready. 78 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: What we know is that that's when they're exactly that's 79 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: one of the most malleable you know, I know that 80 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: about our own daughters, would that they're learning everything of 81 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: us right now. 82 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 83 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: Tom's called Tom. You're a former student of Yarrow Valley Grammar. 84 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 5: Good eye, Yes, I am. 85 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: What do you think about this? 86 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 5: But I just think it's it's terrible, but the behavior, 87 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 5: but I just feel for these young women. That's that's 88 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 5: the thing. And I've called a couple of my other 89 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 5: schoolmates and we've both said the same more also, the 90 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 5: same thing that we're primary concerned obviously is just the 91 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 5: welfare of these young women and we want them to 92 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 5: know that, you know, we're thinking of them and that 93 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 5: and obviously it is just clearly unacceptable behavior. And look, 94 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 5: it's an enormous issue to try and spearhead. But I 95 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 5: don't know at the same time when when these are 96 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 5: young men that are getting taught. Yes, some of the 97 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 5: respectful relationship classes, but the language is so pointed in 98 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 5: those categories. And this is not as if it's a 99 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 5: careless sort of a mistake. This is a full document 100 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:41,799 Speaker 5: with subcategories, color coding, imported images then arranged. There needs 101 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 5: to be obviously consequences. And look, guys, these are young 102 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 5: men that are at the age where they can get 103 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 5: their learners permit. So we're sort of saying in one 104 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 5: hand that you know, everybody can make mistakes, but we're 105 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 5: going to get them behind the wheel of one and 106 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 5: a half tons of steel that can kill people, and 107 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 5: then say, look, you can take responsibility of a car, 108 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:06,799 Speaker 5: but you can't take responsibility of a keyboard. The punishment 109 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 5: obviously will come from doctor Mark Mary. And I think 110 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 5: obviously my time at the school was great, it was respectful. 111 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 5: I don't think that he skirted around the edges of 112 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 5: any of this. He's taken it on front on and 113 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 5: he's not had any kind of political answers to anything. 114 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 5: I think they've done the right thing, but it's look, 115 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 5: it's just I just hope these girls are okay, because 116 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 5: the other thing is that this is not going to 117 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 5: be just an impact for this week. Of course, we're 118 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 5: going to impact these women for you know, a long 119 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 5: period of time, and we do we need to step up. 120 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 5: I've shied away like a shrinking violet at times and 121 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 5: not stood up and and and just you know, made 122 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 5: my voice known. But we we all need to do better. 123 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: Tom can ask you a question. He came up with 124 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: doctor Stephanie esterday and I really am fascinated by this. 125 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: Ward and I both went to an old boys school, 126 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: so I thought this is only going to be something 127 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 1: that was prevalent at more particularly prevalent within Boise culture. 128 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: But do you think that like going to a co 129 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: ed school is something that can kind of like, well, 130 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: in my view, should create less objectifying as women because 131 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: you're working next to them, you're effectively living with them 132 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: day to day. But it appears that that didn't happen here. 133 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: Do you think that going to a school with boys 134 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: and girls helped you with in terms of how you 135 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: viewed women? Of course, of course, I mean in the 136 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: same spot. 137 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 5: Look, I think that the other thing that we can't 138 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 5: ignore is that is that the way the world communicates 139 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 5: has changed drastically since the days that I was in 140 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 5: school and perhaps since the day that you guys are 141 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 5: in school. Pornography has definitely changed, and it's tone of 142 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 5: what is perceived as being the norm now is far 143 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 5: more aggressive than it was when I was a kid. 144 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 5: There's characters like Andrew Tape, there's plat forms such as 145 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 5: social media. So in terms of the way that we're 146 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 5: able to or try and educate these kids, legislation can't 147 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 5: keep up with this alone, techniques, with trying to actually 148 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 5: with actually keeping in hand with these young men. We've 149 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 5: just got to make sure that we're trying to do 150 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 5: the best that we possibly can in just stamping out 151 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 5: that stuff that we might think is inconsequential, but it's 152 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 5: just not accepting. 153 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 3: You're so right, though, Tommy, it is a different time 154 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 3: when we're at school, Like right now, teachers, parents are 155 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 3: dealing with the fact that every kid's got porn in 156 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 3: their pocket. The access to that was not the case 157 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 3: when we're at school. 158 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 5: I mean, we're so technologically advanced, but in some respects 159 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 5: we're still back in the frontier of the wild West, 160 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 5: to be perfectly frank. 161 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks the cool Tom. Sounds like you're doing some 162 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: good stuff there and being at the forefront. Thanks for 163 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: all the guys that have called. We have spoken about 164 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: this for a long time now, but there. Actually it 165 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: is great to see a lot of men and I'm 166 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: being told by the producers calling up to throw their 167 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: support behind the fact that they think it's really important 168 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: to continue educating guys younger than when they get to 169 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: teenagers about exactly what this is and what this is about. Yeah, 170 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: we'll keep doing the same thing again. The number one 171 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: hundred respect if you have been the victim of any 172 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: sort of abuse and Lifeline thirteen eleven fourteen swilling What 173 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: do You Kiss? 174 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: Hear more of the boys on the full podcast just 175 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 3: scroll up.