1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: One of my favorite psychologists in the world. Richard Wiseman, 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: also happens to be a magician, and when he thinks 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: about any kind of performance, whether that be giving a 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: presentation or performing a magic trick, there's a critical question 5 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: that he asks himself whenever he's designing a new performance, presentation, 6 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: or some other project where he's engaging a group of people. 7 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: My name is doctor amanthe Immer. I'm an organizational psychologist 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this 9 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: is how I work a show about how to help 10 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: you do your best work. On today is my favorite 11 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: Tip episode, we go back to an interview from the 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: past and I pick out my favorite tip from the interview. 13 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: In today's show, I speak with Richard Wiseman when this 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: excerpt starts with me sharing some advice that organize ational 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: psychologist Adam Grant, who's another psychologist that does magic, told 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: me about learning the craft of magic. Now, I've often 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: had goals to learn magic tricks, and I remember the 18 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: last time I had Adam Grant on the show, I 19 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: actually tried to get some advice from him because I'd 20 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: set this goal where I was going to spend eight 21 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 1: weeks and learn a new trick every week for eight weeks. 22 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: And I didn't meet that, and Adam said to me, 23 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: I remember, he said, I think you've got it wrong. 24 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: I think you want to maybe learn a new skill 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: every week, and that way you can actually unlock hundreds 26 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: of tricks. And I thought that was great advice, but 27 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: I didn't apply it. So I'm wondering, Richard, can you 28 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: give me some advice? And also for any listeners that 29 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: are listening to I guess like that the power of 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: magic and how it's really made you think differently around 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: your work, like for someone that doesn't even know what 32 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: sleight of hand is, Like, where do you start if 33 00:01:58,280 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: you want to learn some magic? 34 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 2: Yea, there's loads of beginner's books out there. Now there's 35 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: loads of stuff on YouTube, so it's much easier and 36 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 2: it was in my day. The problem you will run 37 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: up against is that if they's suppose you learn a 38 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 2: very simple card trick, which might be your easiest thing, 39 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: I cannot perform for friends. I do not understand what 40 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 2: that contract is. I like my friends. I'm honest with 41 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: my friends. If I show them something and they go, 42 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: that's great, how did you do it, and I go, 43 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: I can't tell you. I do not know what space 44 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 2: I'm in, what world I'm in with my friends, so 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 2: just go, well, thanks, then great love it. So I 46 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 2: find it very difficult to perform for friends on stage. 47 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 2: It's fine because the whole contract is different. I don't 48 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: know those people. That's all fine. So then it comes 49 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,560 Speaker 2: down to what are you giving people? Are you just 50 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 2: giving them a puzzle they can't solve? Or one magician 51 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: famously referred to a stone in their shoe, which is 52 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 2: that the more they think about it, the more it 53 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 2: annoys them because they can't figure out how it's done. Well, 54 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 2: that's not a great gift. Or are you giving them 55 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 2: this moment of magic where something impossible appears to happen, 56 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: and why would you want them to have that experience? 57 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: And then you get into what magic is actually about, 58 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 2: which is those experiences not I interviewed a very very 59 00:03:33,800 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: experienced magician many many years ago, and he came up 60 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: with this picture of him doing his first show at 61 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: age about seven or eight, and I said, is this 62 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: your first performance? And he went, oh, no, no, no, 63 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: that's not a performance. I was just showing off. I said, 64 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: what's the difference. He said, performers show off for their 65 00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 2: own ego, so everyone goes, you're wonderful. A performance is 66 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: about the audience. And I'm a friend of mine Richmond 67 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: Google has got this lovely thing about what do you 68 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: want an audience to say to you after the show, 69 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: And they said most performers, magicians want people to go, 70 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 2: you were great. And he said that's the worst thing 71 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,359 Speaker 2: that someone can say. What they should what you should 72 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 2: aim for is the person coming up to you and 73 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: saying thank you, you gave me something. And again that's 74 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: magic thinkings and the same you know, when we give talks, 75 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 2: an audience should be not be coming up and going 76 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 2: you were great. They should be coming up and going 77 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 2: thank you. And in which case, how do you structure 78 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: a talk so you're giving people something not all about you? 79 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: And these are I think helpful things for speakers. 80 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this excerpt from my chat with Richard, 81 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: you might want to hop into the show notes and 82 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: click on the link to listen to the full interview. 83 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 84 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: that you worked. 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