Speaker 1: Good. It's Peter.
Speaker 2: Hell ay you here, Welcome to You ain't seen nothing yet?
Speaker 2: In the Movie Podcast, where our chat to a movie
Speaker 2: lover about a classic or be loved movie they haven't
Speaker 2: quite got around to watching until now.
Speaker 1: In today's guest comedian Sam Tornton, the.
Speaker 3: First rule of fight Club is you do not talk
Speaker 3: about Fike Club now.
Speaker 4: It was you afraid of you broke my heart.
Speaker 5: I admire your luck, mister Bond, James Bond, what happening
Speaker 5: right now?
Speaker 1: You don't see nothing here.
Speaker 2: Sam Tawton has been slaying them on the Aussie comedy
Speaker 2: scene for half a decade now, building his audience through
Speaker 2: appearances on the Project Just for Laughs and Comedy Next Gen.
Speaker 1: He also hosted the show about Jordie Shaw, which I
Speaker 1: was asked not to mention. Sam.
Speaker 2: He's a bloody good golfer too, who seriously considered the
Speaker 2: option of heading to US colleges with a view of
Speaker 2: turning pro but made the financially wobbly.
Speaker 1: Choice to tackle comedy instead. His accountant need to have worried.
Speaker 2: The Herald Sun said, he's on the express elevator to
Speaker 2: stardom and it's hard to argue not that I would
Speaker 2: want to argue. Sam is brilliant to watch and fun
Speaker 2: to hang out with, so much so that I asked
Speaker 2: him to support my life shows in Sydney in twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Sam's later show, Yo Yo Diablou has been killing it
Speaker 2: at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival and may just be
Speaker 2: passing through your city.
Speaker 1: Now check it out. You can thank me later.
Speaker 2: Sam's Hits the Front hides a genuinely lovely bloke from Naarra.
Speaker 2: His comedy is urban, sharp and always relatable, and I'm
Speaker 2: bloody stoked to be hanging with him today.
Speaker 3: My name is Sam Taunton and my three favorite movies
Speaker 3: are The Wedding Singer, The Big Chill Deep, and this
Speaker 3: is quite a hacked choice for a man that departed.
Speaker 3: It's a matter of smart as you any fucking Shakespeare.
Speaker 3: But up until yesterday I had not seen the nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy nine classic Kramer versus Kramer.
Speaker 1: Yes, I did remembered to bring the truckolate to a
Speaker 1: cream home.
Speaker 6: And you're not going to have any of it until
Speaker 6: you eat all your dinner and then meet your meat
Speaker 6: and your corn.
Speaker 1: Where are you going? You get factor? Right now? Did
Speaker 1: you hear me? You better not do that. You better
Speaker 1: start right there, Falla.
Speaker 6: I'm warning you, Hey, did.
Speaker 1: You hear me? Now you listen to me. Don't be smart.
Speaker 1: Now you go bight back and put that back until
Speaker 1: you finish your dinner. I'm warning you.
Speaker 7: Take one bite out of that during big trouble.
Speaker 1: Don't he don't you dare? Don't you dare do that?
Speaker 6: Did you hear me?
Speaker 1: He stop? Hold it right there.
Speaker 6: You put that ice cream in your mouth, and you
Speaker 6: are in very, very, very big trouble. Don't you dare
Speaker 6: go anywhere beyond that? Put it down right now. I
Speaker 6: Am not going to say it again. I Am not
Speaker 6: going to say it again.
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 6: Don't you kill me.
Speaker 4: You're not barking now. You are a spoiled, rotten little fract.
Speaker 8: I'll tell you right now and hang you and I hang.
Speaker 5: You back your little shit.
Speaker 2: This divorce has never captured the imagination of the movie
Speaker 2: going public quiet like nineteen seventy nine's Kramer Versus Kramer. No,
Speaker 2: it's not a sign felt episode set in the multiverse.
Speaker 2: It's a Robert Benton directed drama starring white Hot Does
Speaker 2: Hoffman as Ted and the breakout performance by the acting
Speaker 2: goat herself. Meryl Streep as Joanna, who leaves both Ted
Speaker 2: and their young boy Billy to find herself and get
Speaker 2: her head straight and because she has fallen out of
Speaker 2: love with Ted. Justin Henry by the way, Peo play
Speaker 2: Billy Garner's an Oscar nomination, which remains the youngest Oscar
Speaker 2: nominated actor to this day.
Speaker 1: He was aged eight.
Speaker 2: Kramer Versus Cremer is never saccurin or mawkish, yet it's
Speaker 2: never grimm. It's authentic, intimate, and it struck a chord.
Speaker 2: Kramer Versus Cremer was incredibly the highest grossing movie of
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, winning five Oscars, nominated for ten. Kramer
Speaker 2: Versus Cramer is well written, but it is the performances
Speaker 2: by generational talents in Hoffman and Streep that elevate this
Speaker 2: film into classic status. Sam Tordon, how many times did
Speaker 2: you have to be told to put the ice cream back?
Speaker 3: That actually wasn't a recording from the movie. That was
Speaker 3: me my girlfriend he was, I mean, gave him plenty
Speaker 3: of opportunities exactly. He should have just done what he
Speaker 3: had to do. But that is like the indicative of
Speaker 3: the entire movie. Like there's so much dialogue where you're like,
Speaker 3: I feel like the plot isn't advancing, It's just I'm
Speaker 3: just seeing an insight into like you know, like a
Speaker 3: household that's on the brink of like falling apart.
Speaker 2: At any point, we'll get to like the fact that
Speaker 2: it's the highest grossing film of nine and seventy nine,
Speaker 2: Like I mentioned an intro that is astonished, it's crazy
Speaker 2: that this is a talking film, Like this is just
Speaker 2: talking people talking on couches, people talking in parks, on benches,
Speaker 2: people talking in rooms.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It is other films released that year, the first Star
Speaker 2: Trek film like Moonraker, James Bond, Apocalypse Man.
Speaker 3: Like these are huge, These are big, big film. There's
Speaker 3: a big movie film.
Speaker 2: Big big movie films, and this film about divorce hits
Speaker 2: a chord and becomes the highest grossing film you know,
Speaker 2: of that year.
Speaker 3: I looked at it did something like one hundred and
Speaker 3: seventy million off a thirty million dollar budget or something,
Speaker 3: which is like insane like return. But also it's like
Speaker 3: I doubt that could happen now, Like you know, like
Speaker 3: now movies are like people go franchises or their reboots,
Speaker 3: and that seems to be the way to get generation
Speaker 3: or like to get interest, to get people into the cinema.
Speaker 3: So to have this talking movie. Maybe it was already
Speaker 3: hard to do it then, but now it seems inconceivable
Speaker 3: that you could release a movie like this and then
Speaker 3: everyone would flock to the cinema to see it. We
Speaker 3: have one marriage story, I think, so when I was
Speaker 3: watching this, I was like, Oh, this is marriage story.
Speaker 3: Should be called out for just ripping off cram verse grame.
Speaker 2: I think Crame Versus Creamate like inspires this kind of
Speaker 2: the wave of divorce movies. I think Ordinary People came
Speaker 2: the year after, which would have been in production and
Speaker 2: maybe even film, but by the time Crame Versus Crement
Speaker 2: came out, but like, uh, shoot, the Moon I think
Speaker 2: comes out a few years later. There's a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of them that came.
Speaker 3: You've seen Blue Valentine in a similar vein it's kind
Speaker 3: of more of the relationship breaking down, but in a
Speaker 3: similar way that it just pulls on your heartstrings just
Speaker 3: watching this thing that was one beautiful collapse, and maybe
Speaker 3: people are drawn to that kind of I don't know, sadness,
Speaker 3: or maybe it's more relatable than anything else. You could
Speaker 3: put on its screen.
Speaker 1: It's so weird.
Speaker 2: I was thinking that in nineteen seventy nine, for some reason,
Speaker 2: divorce was in the zeitgeist, Like you don't think we
Speaker 2: were trying to pick the zeitgeist to go so funny
Speaker 2: and probably I'd love to know what you know what
Speaker 2: divorce rates kind of were happening around that.
Speaker 3: Right, because that's when people first it would have become popular,
Speaker 3: being like, this is an option. We don't have to
Speaker 3: be together, we can separate.
Speaker 1: Women worked it out. They thought we can actually leave blokes.
Speaker 3: Well, there is a line in COVID Craber where it's
Speaker 3: like this women's live business. It's like off it so hard,
Speaker 3: but it's probably like totally like men were getting left
Speaker 3: and being like women are in powered now. They were
Speaker 3: hating it obviously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so why did you choose? I know you came
Speaker 2: back with two choices.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know the two choices. I can't believe you
Speaker 3: chose this one.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, well what was the other one? The other
Speaker 1: one was Basic?
Speaker 3: Now I haven't I haven't seen well, I've seen one.
Speaker 1: Scene in Basic many times? Yeah, many times.
Speaker 3: Well, no, as a young man, you do it just
Speaker 3: it's in your life that one scene in Basic Instinct
Speaker 3: growing up, But no, I hadn't seen it, and I
Speaker 3: thought for sure you were going to go with that,
Speaker 3: and instead you went with.
Speaker 1: Well because Kramer versus Kramer.
Speaker 2: I saw it when I was younger, like ten or eleven,
Speaker 2: and it didn't and I was on TV.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it had no hook in for me.
Speaker 3: We'll be hard as a kid to really it's just
Speaker 3: people talking.
Speaker 2: It's people talking. It's a drama. Put ads in that
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: You know, where do you even put the ads? Because
Speaker 3: there's no like big like crescendo at the end of
Speaker 3: each scene.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: So I don't think I ever finished watching it, So
Speaker 2: I had like a vague memories of, you know, watching it,
Speaker 2: and and so I was keen to going to revisit it,
Speaker 2: and I was goind of glad I did, we will
Speaker 2: get the Basic instinct. Somebody else put forward Basic Instinct,
Speaker 2: and I chose another film we might have do it
Speaker 2: like a live and a few.
Speaker 3: People, because I always I feel I haven't seen based
Speaker 3: against him. But I was talking to my friend about
Speaker 3: it and I'm like, oh, he gave me these two
Speaker 3: options to watch, and he was like, oh, yeah, you
Speaker 3: don't want to just have two dudes, straight men sitting
Speaker 3: around talking about like deconstructing baits against him.
Speaker 2: We may have to get some ladies in. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think let's feat of Love a bit. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So we'll get to what we'll come back. And I'm
Speaker 2: really fascinated with your thoughts on came versus Cramer. But
Speaker 2: your three favorite films we had Cameron James and recently
Speaker 2: hitt Parenthood as a fun episode if you haven't heard
Speaker 2: that one. But he also nominated The Wedding Singer. Did
Speaker 2: you know that? Well, you guys bonded over there.
Speaker 3: We have spoken. Cameron and I are quite good friends
Speaker 3: with it down the road from each other in Sydney,
Speaker 3: and we love we love the Wedding Singer. I don't
Speaker 3: know why, and I feel like all my three choices
Speaker 3: are quite like. I listened to Lloyd's episode and he's
Speaker 3: like naming movies I've never liked these art house I've
Speaker 3: never heard of, and I'm like the Wedding Singer, which
Speaker 3: is but I feel like all the things I've picked
Speaker 3: a drench did in stunger for me, like they're the
Speaker 3: things that i've movies that I've just gone back to
Speaker 3: and The Wedding Singer, for some reason, is just a
Speaker 3: movie I've seen so many times in my life, and
Speaker 3: like I feel like it was a pivotal role in
Speaker 3: my teens, especially my late teens, when I would like
Speaker 3: be smoking weed with my friends, we would put The
Speaker 3: Weddings Singer on and like laugh a lot, and like,
Speaker 3: I think it's easily Adam Sandler's probably best film. The
Speaker 3: plot is nothing amazing, but it's like him and Drew
Speaker 3: Barrymore hold the film in like such an incredible way,
Speaker 3: and it's funny. That's the other thing, Like it is
Speaker 3: actually funny, and there's lines in that that I still
Speaker 3: There's a line in it where Robbie, which is Adam
Speaker 3: sanders'suman brother, Yeah, he he hates Glenn, who's the guy
Speaker 3: that Drew Barrymore is dating, and so he says, why
Speaker 3: don't you have a few drinks and drive home? And
Speaker 3: it's just like a stupid line, But that was like
Speaker 3: one of the first like real jokes that I ever
Speaker 3: like be like, you can just be mean to people.
Speaker 3: And I've said that in crowd work, Like I've stolen
Speaker 3: that doing stand up and been like someone's annoying me.
Speaker 3: I'm like, you should have a few drinks and drive home.
Speaker 3: Like so, I think the movie is great, even to
Speaker 3: the point I went to the New musical earlier this
Speaker 3: year in Sydney.
Speaker 1: It must have been soaked well Pete.
Speaker 3: It took. I don't like musicals at all, Like they're
Speaker 3: not for me. I know some people love them. And
Speaker 3: then I was like, but who cares, Like it's the
Speaker 3: wedding singer.
Speaker 1: I'll go.
Speaker 3: And then I sat down and within the first like
Speaker 3: four minutes, I realized Adam Sandler's not in this musical,
Speaker 3: or so is the character in there? No, the character is,
Speaker 3: but in my head it was going to be. I
Speaker 3: thought maybe Adam Sander would have something to do. And
Speaker 3: then all that they only did the two songs. They
Speaker 3: did obviously the end song, you know, the grow old
Speaker 3: with You, and then they did the other song that
Speaker 3: you know when he's like, were your kill me? I
Speaker 3: want to do that? And then the rest were like
Speaker 3: shitty musicals, like you know, they're just like I'm not
Speaker 3: playing blah blah blah, she's getting married and just all
Speaker 3: this and it just sucked it, Like I didn't suck
Speaker 3: if Anyone's a thing that was in it. You were
Speaker 3: terrific and your performances were incredible, but the.
Speaker 2: Idea, yeah you're saying, the idea behind it was on
Speaker 2: shaky ground.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I just think they were using the good name of
Speaker 3: a movie that a lot of people love with music
Speaker 3: in it, because I would have loved to have go
Speaker 3: and seen all the songs from the word, but I
Speaker 3: don't think they can license all the songs to their musical.
Speaker 3: But it was still it still was entertaining, but it
Speaker 3: wasn't I think when you have so much love for
Speaker 3: one thing and then it gets redone in kind of
Speaker 3: another genre, it can be interesting to see my wife.
Speaker 1: I like the wedding Singer. My wife really likes this.
Speaker 2: And I think watching Adam Sam Landrew Barrymore in any
Speaker 2: movie is fun.
Speaker 1: Like Fifty First Dates, I really enjoy Yeah, you know, and.
Speaker 3: It's all guilt free watching the other thing.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: But when I was invited to the wedding Singer and
Speaker 2: I said to the bridge, do you want to go?
Speaker 1: Like you know? And I couldn't quite and we didn't go.
Speaker 2: And I think it was a timing thing in the end,
Speaker 2: but I couldn't quite get my head around how why
Speaker 2: or how they were doing this. Yeah, totally, And I
Speaker 2: think sometimes you know, and I'm always I give something
Speaker 2: a chance, so you know, like it was more of
Speaker 2: a time issue from us not getting there. My wife
Speaker 2: went and saw Jagie Little Pill and she had no
Speaker 2: idea you know what that was going to be. Like
Speaker 2: it was blown away by it, like this said, this
Speaker 2: is one of the like unlike any other things she's seen.
Speaker 2: She was maybe outside Hamilton, she was, and she loved it.
Speaker 2: A week later, still talking about Jague Little Pill. So
Speaker 2: so everyone else in that one, well done.
Speaker 3: Yeah I wasn't talking a week later about the wedding. Well,
Speaker 3: the problem was it was years.
Speaker 1: Later you're talking about it. You won't shut up about it.
Speaker 3: They just like extended out I will stop talking about it.
Speaker 3: But this is my last point. It's like they just
Speaker 3: extended out scenes that weren't even big in the movie
Speaker 3: and became like these ten minute songs. And it's just
Speaker 3: like I don't know if you remember the scene, but
Speaker 3: there's a scene where he's he's in the bin after
Speaker 3: he like ruins a gig he's doing above MITZV or something,
Speaker 3: and then like Drew Barrymoll has to come and get
Speaker 3: get him, and it's like a two minute scene she's like,
Speaker 3: get out of the bin. But in the musical that
Speaker 3: was like a fifteen minute epics sing along where.
Speaker 1: They're like, get out of the bin.
Speaker 3: You shouldn't be in the bin, and it's gone for
Speaker 3: ever and ever and ever. So Yeah, Anyway, it also
Speaker 3: feels that.
Speaker 2: It's refusing to acknowledge that one of the best thing
Speaker 2: about the Wedding Sing is Adam Sandler and Drew Barry totally.
Speaker 3: That's actually where what it comes down to, like the
Speaker 3: script is that's the other thing. Watching the musical, I'm
Speaker 3: just like, oh, the plot of this is every other
Speaker 3: thing I've seen ever before. But the thing that makes
Speaker 3: it good is the dynamic and the chemistry between those two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, school of Rock got away with it. We saw
Speaker 2: a School of Rock in New York and with the kids,
Speaker 2: and that was fun.
Speaker 1: But you got I saw that.
Speaker 3: As I say, I hate musicals, but I did see that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you enjoy that? I liked it? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: because but you got the kids as well.
Speaker 2: Kids are great, and you know, it's not necessarily like
Speaker 2: the wedding Sing is based on the chemistry between these
Speaker 2: two you know, wonderful actors, where where Jack blackives an
Speaker 2: unbelievable performance, but it's not like he needs to build
Speaker 2: this chemistry with with you know, another actor. But I
Speaker 2: really enjoyed score of Rock, both movie and the musical. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Big Chill.
Speaker 3: Now do you know have you seen the Big Chill?
Speaker 3: I have?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Now, The Big Chill I think is like the most
Speaker 3: nostalgic choice here for me because when I was growing up,
Speaker 3: not only did my parents have the movie on VHS
Speaker 3: and would make me watch it a lot, not make
Speaker 3: me watch it, but like I loved it, but then
Speaker 3: we would also we also had the soundtrack on vinyl,
Speaker 3: and the soundtrack is umble. It's all these old motown hits.
Speaker 1: One of the first big soundtracks.
Speaker 3: Oh yes, like Aretha Franklin and like the band and
Speaker 3: like all these great acts. And it's like I still
Speaker 3: listen to it now, and like the opening scene has
Speaker 3: got like the rolling stones that you can't always get
Speaker 3: where you were, Like it's like iconic. And so this movie,
Speaker 3: like when I someone says the Big Chill, I think
Speaker 3: about the soundtrack playing and like the smell of like
Speaker 3: my mum having coffee, like and coffee. So it's like
Speaker 3: it's very vivid to me, this movie. But it wasn't
Speaker 3: until I probably got to like my early twenties that
Speaker 3: I then rewatched it and then realized how much I
Speaker 3: loved the movie as well. And it's probably because I
Speaker 3: think I watched it so much growing up in the soundtrack,
Speaker 3: but also just like, you know the concept of like
Speaker 3: friends going away, living different lives and then coming back
Speaker 3: together and stuff, and it's so applicable, especially in your
Speaker 3: early twenties or when you move into like a more
Speaker 3: serious point of adulthood. Yeah, it's like, you know, it's
Speaker 3: a bit more bang on.
Speaker 1: I haven't watched it for a while, but it was
Speaker 1: in my mind.
Speaker 2: It was one of those movies that was like one
Speaker 2: of the first based on the idea of like adults
Speaker 2: getting together a you know, like a beachside you know,
Speaker 2: or you know, a retreat, yeah, and hanging out and
Speaker 2: things coming up.
Speaker 3: Well, now it feels like every person's weekend. Ever they
Speaker 3: hire an airbnb and a bunch of friends. But like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm sure back then, because it's like early eighties, I
Speaker 3: think the film might be yeah, or maybe late eighties,
Speaker 3: But then it does seem like they're there for a
Speaker 3: funeral for their friend. Yes, but it's like it ends
Speaker 3: up becoming this whole separate thing and they all hang around.
Speaker 1: But it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's totally like an interesting not a coming of
Speaker 3: age thing, but it's it's not Dowur, but it's kind
Speaker 3: of quite uplifting in itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kasden actually wrote and directed that, which I yeah,
Speaker 2: lines Casten obviously involved with Indiana Jones and and Star
Speaker 2: Wars and I strikes back.
Speaker 3: Very different angle, very really.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I'm not sure which film you were watching.
Speaker 2: Didn't Star Wars start with a funeral?
Speaker 3: An I've also shown this film to like every girl
Speaker 3: I've ever dated. It's been like real, it's like because
Speaker 3: you know, it's one of my things to be like
Speaker 3: if this is if you want to be no right,
Speaker 3: like this is a thing that's important to me. None
Speaker 3: of them have ever like liked it as much as
Speaker 3: everyone's feel like, yeah, it's fine, Like I don't see
Speaker 3: the and I'm like it, but the soundtrack's good as well,
Speaker 3: and they're like, yeah, so I know there's only one
Speaker 3: Rose Matafao who's now a superstar, Like you know, the
Speaker 3: biggest whatever going around. She's one of the only people
Speaker 3: that I've ever met that loves this movie as much
Speaker 3: as I do and has a get We've talked about
Speaker 3: it for hours, just like different aspects about this movie.
Speaker 3: But everyone else is like, yeah, I mean it's a
Speaker 3: good film, but I wouldn't watch it again.
Speaker 2: Oh, people, I'm sure it has come up. I'll have
Speaker 2: to try to track it down. I've got we have
Speaker 2: to come up with a list, I think a spreadsheet
Speaker 2: everybody's favorite films, so I can have access to it
Speaker 2: straight away, because I it certainly come up in people's
Speaker 2: favorite films before on this podcast. I watched it when
Speaker 2: I was about fourteen or fifteen, so it'd be interesting
Speaker 2: that if I go back and watch it do it
Speaker 2: again as an adult, and maybe I've seen bits of
Speaker 2: it like on TV, but they never sat down and
Speaker 2: watched the whole thing since the r ip William hurt
Speaker 2: and it departed.
Speaker 3: Yes, now, surely someone support this.
Speaker 1: This has come up. This has come up. I love Scorsese.
Speaker 2: For some reason, I didn't love the part of as
Speaker 2: much as I thought I was going so many elements
Speaker 2: to it that should absolutely works.
Speaker 1: It's said in Boston. It's got great act years and
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 2: I hated the last shot of the movie. Oh really, yeah,
Speaker 2: the rat. I didn't like the rat now well on
Speaker 2: the nose.
Speaker 3: I mean it's it's really like, you know when there's
Speaker 3: like subtext in you know, when you see a comedy
Speaker 3: show and you're like, there's a subtext and the and
Speaker 3: they just say, so that show.
Speaker 1: Was about my man's there. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, well, yeah, we picked up
Speaker 3: on that. You didn't have to say that at the end.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been I thought it's a bit heavy headed.
Speaker 2: But I mean I and I watched it not that
Speaker 2: long ago again and I enjoyed, Like I'm not, and
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised it comes up as people's favorite films.
Speaker 2: I was so excited. It might have been an expectation thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I look at all these magical pieces in this one film.
Speaker 2: I was looking forward to seeing it. I liked it.
Speaker 2: I just didn't love it as much as I thought.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that's interesting. I watched it probably once a year.
Speaker 3: I'll rewatch it. And I just remember the first time
Speaker 3: I watched it, I was probably I don't know, seventeen
Speaker 3: or and just like my mind was like I'd never
Speaker 3: had been like that hooked and then been like like
Speaker 3: felt like the plot had just turned on its head
Speaker 3: at the end, and we're like.
Speaker 1: All that stuffs happened. That's crazy.
Speaker 3: And it was like all these cool men and I
Speaker 3: was like a young man and they're just like shooting
Speaker 3: guns or whatever and like tricking people. I was like,
Speaker 3: this is unbelievable. There was so much in it for me,
Speaker 3: just a feast on and so now I think it's
Speaker 3: another trip down memory late, but also I think it
Speaker 3: but there's a few scenes that don't hold hold up.
Speaker 3: Jack Nicholson's trying to get i think their Koreans or Chinese,
Speaker 3: and they're bringing in microprocess It keeps saying we're going
Speaker 3: to get the microprocesses, and you're like, that doesn't hold it.
Speaker 3: We don't know what you're doing about. What the fuck
Speaker 3: is a microprocess.
Speaker 2: I really love films where like the detail, you know, whatever,
Speaker 2: they it's just whatever they're shipping in.
Speaker 1: They keep it simple. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. I can
Speaker 1: keep it simple, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: Don't now people need to make things knowing that it
Speaker 3: will date so quickly.
Speaker 1: I remember in the eighties on bombs were always a
Speaker 1: big thing, like yeah, yeah, I have no idea what bombs.
Speaker 3: I still don't know what they are. I have a
Speaker 3: friend that works in like finance, and I had to
Speaker 3: get her to explain them to me, and it still
Speaker 3: didn't really nah, check out. But there's a lot going
Speaker 3: on and it's kind of dated, but it is, like, man,
Speaker 3: there's some great performances in there. Mark Wahlberg, who I
Speaker 3: think sucks as an actor, he was great in it,
Speaker 3: and like, you know, Jack Nicholson is crazy in it.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean it is probably a bit heavy
Speaker 3: handed by I think that's what I love about it.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean it's you know, I mean those scenes
Speaker 2: when everything goes pair shape and everyone's getting you know,
Speaker 2: you know killed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: It is crazy, and I can never have never been
Speaker 2: able to quite put my finger on why I don't think.
Speaker 1: This is a classic.
Speaker 2: Well I'm hapy to accept it as a classic, but
Speaker 2: in my head that it hasn't reached that status.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Well, not to go back to the girlfriend test, but
Speaker 3: my current girlfriend the part of on the first date, Oh,
Speaker 3: I know, but I probably six months in I was like,
Speaker 3: do you want to watch this? And she's like yeah,
Speaker 3: And she grew up in Argentina, so she's like there's
Speaker 3: a lot of like pop culture gaps that she has,
Speaker 3: like she came to Australa when she was twelve, that
Speaker 3: I have that. I like try to show her. She
Speaker 3: falls asleep like ten minutes into the department and she's like,
Speaker 3: this sucks. And then I was talking to my friend,
Speaker 3: a mutual friend of ours, Tom Cashman. He tried to
Speaker 3: show his girlfriend that Departed. She falls asleep within ten
Speaker 3: minutes and we're both like, but this movie is so
Speaker 3: this is crazy. These women are for all your sleep?
Speaker 3: What's wrong with them? And then he found out I
Speaker 3: think there's a Japanese remake of The Departed.
Speaker 2: No, it's actually the part is based on the jet.
Speaker 2: It's actually Chinese. I think it's Infernal Affairs.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, so it's Chinese.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3: Well, so then he went so he showed his girlfriend
Speaker 3: the Chinese version and then she's like, well this is
Speaker 3: very cultured and nix so we're watching a foreign film.
Speaker 3: Watched it and loved it. So then in his head
Speaker 3: he never told her that, but in his head He's
Speaker 3: like that was a win. She did like.
Speaker 1: That could end up. That could end up in divorce.
Speaker 1: It could be cash Mean versus Kash Cashman. Well, let's
Speaker 1: tat it about.
Speaker 2: Kramer versus kram In nineteen seventy nine, directed and written
Speaker 2: by Robert Benton from a novel from Avery Corman, starring
Speaker 2: of course, Dustin Hoffman and Meryl Street Sam Tauton.
Speaker 1: Who did you like it? I loved it?
Speaker 3: I thought it was great? Can I say so? We're
Speaker 3: recording this the last weekend of comedy festival. I'm not
Speaker 3: sure your timeline.
Speaker 1: But what a time?
Speaker 3: This what a time to watch this one.
Speaker 2: I didn' actually think, fuck, I hope this film hasn't
Speaker 2: ruined the end of your festival.
Speaker 3: Like I'm like at the end, I'm like, my body
Speaker 3: is breaking down. I'm so tired, I'm so emotional, like
Speaker 3: anything gets me. I haven't seen my girlfriend for weeks.
Speaker 3: And then we put this and I was just like
Speaker 3: watching it, just like having a canit. I was like,
Speaker 3: this is the heaviest movie. It felt like the heaviest
Speaker 3: thing I've ever watched in my life. Like I was
Speaker 3: crying in the in the court scene when they're like
Speaker 3: going back and forth, like talking about how bad the
Speaker 3: other person was, but they don't really mean it and
Speaker 3: they're like. I was like, why are you're doing this?
Speaker 3: You should love each other. So I loved it, but
Speaker 3: my god, it was a heavy film to.
Speaker 2: Watch because you have history of divorce in your family. Well,
Speaker 2: my parents got divorced really young.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, But I don't feel like that that really
Speaker 3: because I mean I was too young really to even
Speaker 3: know what was going on, right, But like, I mean,
Speaker 3: I've been through breakups, you know, I know the pain.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I didn't feel for the kid who cares. I was
Speaker 3: more like I was like Dustin and Merril, you're good
Speaker 3: to get. Like they're so hot as well, Like they're
Speaker 3: young at their peak, they're so attractive. I'm like, you
Speaker 3: guys can make this work.
Speaker 1: Come on, it's it's it's it's.
Speaker 2: Well, let's have a listen to the opening scene because
Speaker 2: it really sets up a lot well, obviously the plot
Speaker 2: of the movie, but and what we're about to be watching,
Speaker 2: but it sets up so many things that are so
Speaker 2: good about this movie. So this is where Meryl Streep's
Speaker 2: Joever is announcers to Ted he's come home and you've
Speaker 2: got a promotion.
Speaker 1: He's pretty happy.
Speaker 2: He's making a quick phone call as she's telling him
Speaker 2: that she's leaving him.
Speaker 1: Please, I'm sorry.
Speaker 9: Now, don't don't make me go in there. Please, please
Speaker 9: don't make me go in there. Don't make me go
Speaker 9: in there.
Speaker 1: If you do, I swear one day, next week, maybe
Speaker 1: next year.
Speaker 9: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I go right out the window.
Speaker 6: I'm not taking in with me. I'm not good for him.
Speaker 8: I'm terrible with you.
Speaker 1: I have no patience.
Speaker 3: He's better off without me.
Speaker 9: Trum, please, and I don't love you anymore.
Speaker 1: It's a kicker.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's because that's early in the movie. That's what
Speaker 3: have you done?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really it's basically the second scene we see
Speaker 2: the opening scenes. It's a lovely shot of Meryl Street
Speaker 2: saying goodbye to her. Somebody that really know exactly what's
Speaker 2: going on in the context.
Speaker 1: Yet.
Speaker 2: Then we go to Ted's office and he's talking about
Speaker 2: buying a jacket or something or whatever, and he's being
Speaker 2: you know, feed up on the desk, kind of do
Speaker 2: she kind of advertising exec you know, corporate world gets
Speaker 2: the promotion, goes out with his bus and then and
Speaker 2: then comes home to that so there's some stuff that
Speaker 2: goes on in the apartment, then it goes out.
Speaker 1: Into the corridor, so the hallway.
Speaker 2: I assume you've seen the movie obviously if you're listening
Speaker 2: to this, But when she says, don't make me go back,
Speaker 2: she's talking about the apartment, but yes, but what is
Speaker 2: when when? So when she says I'm leaving you, do
Speaker 2: you have thoughts? Because my head certainly went to, oh,
Speaker 2: he's had an affair or like there's like, you know,
Speaker 2: there's you know, there's a real reason he's fucked up
Speaker 2: this marriage and she's leaving him. That was like, I
Speaker 2: think that's where Hollywood has kind of a year made
Speaker 2: my mind think, and it becomes way more interesting as
Speaker 2: his scene players out. But did you have a feeling
Speaker 2: of what was going on early in that scene that
Speaker 2: maybe a misdirect or.
Speaker 3: Well, look, I think they had given us enough information
Speaker 3: with him being at work and being like, you know,
Speaker 3: busy at work or whatever. But also that's such a
Speaker 3: like you know, just like almost like a corny easy
Speaker 3: plot line to be like, oh he works too much
Speaker 3: and yeah, you know it doesn't you know, give his
Speaker 3: family enough attention or whatever. But I felt like as
Speaker 3: soon as you saw. I think it's like mertle Street's
Speaker 3: performance in this scene especially, that is the thing that
Speaker 3: really it's like you just see a woman tortured with
Speaker 3: the decisions of where her life's ended up, you know,
Speaker 3: like and being like she needs to get out. So
Speaker 3: I didn't know, you don't know exactly what's happened, but
Speaker 3: I figured, you know, this woman's not happy in her
Speaker 3: like it doesn't really matter to be what's happened, yeah,
Speaker 3: because it's like it's not working out. You can see
Speaker 3: how distress she is. And like that scene when she
Speaker 3: tells him she's leaving is like one of the most relatable,
Speaker 3: like I feel like break ups because like everyone's broken
Speaker 3: up with someone before, and it's like just one of
Speaker 3: the most gut wretched or you've been broken up with.
Speaker 3: And like seeing her she's like chainsmoking cities, like on
Speaker 3: the couch before he comes in and you see him
Speaker 3: come in and just I just it was just brilliant
Speaker 3: because it's like that might be one of the most
Speaker 3: relatable kind of break up things I've ever seen, because
Speaker 3: that's what it's like, You've got to get yourself into
Speaker 3: a place to do it and then it's gut wretching,
Speaker 3: and then the person doesn't want you to do it
Speaker 3: and you've got to got to stay strong. But your
Speaker 3: words they're like it's hard to speak and speak like,
Speaker 3: I just think it's a really good it's a strong
Speaker 3: start to the film.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's such a strong start.
Speaker 2: And at the time and also break up time, like
Speaker 2: like doesn't often says Ted says, way, you really know
Speaker 2: how to pick your moments. And what I love about
Speaker 2: this scene is is you can understand both.
Speaker 1: Points of view totally.
Speaker 2: Like you can understand that he's going, hey, I just
Speaker 2: I've been working really hard and before the you know,
Speaker 2: for the family.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like like it can come off, you know,
Speaker 1: you can come off.
Speaker 2: As a bit asshole, you know, but if you actually
Speaker 2: put it in his frame of mind, it's like he's
Speaker 2: come home to celebrate with youse promotion. Whatever we're aiming
Speaker 2: for the next thing of life is probably gonna happen now,
Speaker 2: you know. And I'm about to tell you and this
Speaker 2: is this is what you're telling me. So in his headspace,
Speaker 2: I understand that. But when when she kind of says
Speaker 2: this is like she takes ownership of it. This is me,
Speaker 2: this is actually not about you. That's when a big
Speaker 2: scene becomes so much more interesting if it was about
Speaker 2: him having an affair all like he said, working too hard.
Speaker 2: It feels like it's hacky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in.
Speaker 2: Meryl Streep's character Joan and never blames that you know
Speaker 2: it's about her. And this is in nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 2: The idea I imagine, like a woman leaving well, her
Speaker 2: husband and leaving the child.
Speaker 3: Well, that's what I because like that whole thing of
Speaker 3: like you're not really feeling sorry. I feel like the
Speaker 3: whole you're not even though I would say Dustin Hoffman's
Speaker 3: character is probably more the protagonist, like he's probably the
Speaker 3: central character. It's not like you are siding with him
Speaker 3: at any point, Like you completely understand both sides of
Speaker 3: the thing, and you totally right that when it came
Speaker 3: out in seventy nine, she's leaving, it feels like it's
Speaker 3: like maybe quite a progressive film for the time, Like
Speaker 3: I was trying to kind of because now you would
Speaker 3: be like it's kind of a very common kind of
Speaker 3: this is how relationships do break down. But in seventy nine,
Speaker 3: just to leave your kid because you're unhappy in the relationship.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, but also not be painted a complete
Speaker 3: villain by the film, So yeah, it feels it felt
Speaker 3: quite a progressive kind of.
Speaker 1: I completely agree.
Speaker 2: I write it down that it's a weirdly progressive film,
Speaker 2: which is really progressive moment.
Speaker 3: So he's that it's Christmas. Even he just kisses a
Speaker 3: random woman. Well, that's way fair.
Speaker 1: We'll get to that.
Speaker 2: Hears of kissing on the way out. He gets the
Speaker 2: job and he ends up kissing. It seems like a
Speaker 2: random just a random girl who happens to be in
Speaker 2: real life a form of Miss Norway had a playboy pet.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it doesn't hapen just grabbed an
Speaker 2: extra on the way out.
Speaker 3: That's so funny, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Definitely his idea, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, well when you're Dustin ni can but his decision.
Speaker 1: Probably not happening on the set in twenty twenty ten.
Speaker 2: But also like, yeah, what you say is absolutely true
Speaker 2: as far as he's been nine seventy nine, and where
Speaker 2: how this would have been viewed, And also the term
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if the term mental health had been coined,
Speaker 2: And now we look through it and kind of go, yeah,
Speaker 2: I understand it, like, go, I can see your struggle,
Speaker 2: you know, play out in front of me now.
Speaker 1: But you do need to go and find help and
Speaker 1: whatever you need and this is what's best for you.
Speaker 3: Go do that.
Speaker 1: H Yeah. But watching in nineteen seventy nine, there would
Speaker 1: have been men in the cinema just facking furious.
Speaker 3: You're like, well, it's like they couldn't like now, like
Speaker 3: footy players take a week off because they've got mental
Speaker 3: health issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's how far
Speaker 3: we're come, do you know what I mean? Like back then,
Speaker 3: the idea of a man being like I need to
Speaker 3: talk to someone, or even like I feel like ladies
Speaker 3: in that situation needing to talk to Like it just wouldn't.
Speaker 3: You wouldn't speak about these things. You get married to
Speaker 3: stay together. That's why you're totally right in your initial
Speaker 3: point about divorce being in the zeitgards because it is
Speaker 3: really captured this moment where you can relationships can break
Speaker 3: down and it's okay, like you just have to get
Speaker 3: on with life. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And this this film never over dramatize it consider its drama.
Speaker 2: Like the details and it's the ordinariness of what they
Speaker 2: go through and the impact divorce will have on the
Speaker 2: friends and work. Yeah, like the fact that we never
Speaker 2: know when Dustin Hoffman brings home a woman, you know,
Speaker 2: and very funny scene you know, when she's naked like
Speaker 2: that doesn't get played out to be like traumatic for
Speaker 2: the kid.
Speaker 1: Not at all.
Speaker 3: And I thought that was such a nice choice as well,
Speaker 3: because there was not the big scene where he had
Speaker 3: to sit down and be like, well, you know, she's
Speaker 3: a friend and yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 3: They just had like a nice moment of realness and
Speaker 3: then moved on, which is probably the reality of what
Speaker 3: would happen when your kid is seven years old or whatever.
Speaker 3: They would be like, oh, there's a lady in my house. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then you'd move on with it.
Speaker 2: Before we move on, I just want to point out
Speaker 2: the breakup scene. There's something else had happened kind of
Speaker 2: in the production and Dustn't Hoffan apparently not a great
Speaker 2: dude during the making of this film and a bit notorious,
Speaker 2: a bit notoriously difficult on sets. So when he makes
Speaker 2: TUTSI after a couple of years after this, and it
Speaker 2: was almost an in joke that he was playing this
Speaker 2: difficult actor.
Speaker 1: So and he he would do things like with Meryl Streep.
Speaker 1: This is Meryl Streep's first film, so.
Speaker 2: First all the clues were there that she was going
Speaker 2: to be in the go and in fact, that scene
Speaker 2: was the first scene she shot.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and in the first scene of the
Speaker 1: first movie she's ever shot.
Speaker 2: In the first take Dustin Hoffman slapshirt, which is not
Speaker 2: in the script, oh my god, and that became like
Speaker 2: that was a fucking oh yeah, what what the was that?
Speaker 2: So they got to a weird start. But what's interesting
Speaker 2: to me is I don't think Dustin Hoffman with me
Speaker 2: say this understood the fucking scene if that's what he
Speaker 2: was doing, because what's great about.
Speaker 3: His character for him to do that exactly.
Speaker 1: That's what's so.
Speaker 2: Great about that scene. And I think what makes this
Speaker 2: film so timeless, and I think it's actually dates really
Speaker 2: well outside of a couple of things we'll get to,
Speaker 2: is that both I think both characters act with dignity.
Speaker 3: Yes one hundred and they both hold themselves. And that
Speaker 3: kind of goes back to my point is that you're
Speaker 3: never like it's not like you're being like, I hope
Speaker 3: this side wins or I hope this side's wins. It's
Speaker 3: more just like an incredible You're just watching a marriage
Speaker 3: or a relationship dissolve basically, and it's just sad, is
Speaker 3: what it is. Because they do for him to stop her.
Speaker 3: It's like that completely misrepresents what his cut, which is
Speaker 3: a man who is grappling, working hard, trying to do
Speaker 3: the right thing. Maybe he was misguided in his approach initially,
Speaker 3: and but he wants to be a good parent and
Speaker 3: a good family man, like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And also that comes up in the corporate seedings later on.
Speaker 2: They totally that when they outline everything.
Speaker 1: Does he drink? Does he has he ever been abusive?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 2: He sent me in seeing one yeah, so and then
Speaker 2: and then it's nice. I like, you know, he wakes
Speaker 2: up in the morning, he said, his son Billy one
Speaker 2: of the all time great child performances. Like I mentioned
Speaker 2: in the intro, youngest acted to be nominated for an
Speaker 2: oscar you can win it, but incredible, still the youngest
Speaker 2: to this day. He doesn't flush. Did you know what
Speaker 2: to say? Oh, it doesn't flush, which may have been
Speaker 2: the reason Joanah left. I think this underlying you.
Speaker 3: Put the trauma on the kid. I think maybe you
Speaker 3: flushed the toilet, you would have stayed around.
Speaker 1: I think you may have started COVID to be honest.
Speaker 2: But the French past scene is I think it's it
Speaker 2: seems like, you know, it'd be easy to write this
Speaker 2: off as an easy scene to write and having there
Speaker 2: and it's a bit of you know, possible high jinks.
Speaker 2: But it's a really important scene because it shows well,
Speaker 2: it shows that he's he's going to try to.
Speaker 1: Keep things positive.
Speaker 2: You know, he's going to try to adopt you know,
Speaker 2: the more paternal role because he's been maybe a little
Speaker 2: bit absent with through work. But it shows the biggest thing.
Speaker 2: It shows that he's trying. And we've spoken about this podcast.
Speaker 2: It's so important. We love characters who try.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: As soon as a character stops trying, it's like, oh fuck,
Speaker 2: I can't be bother man.
Speaker 1: I tried. I made him to get to the cinema
Speaker 1: to worry.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, i'd put on I hit the button on Netflix.
Speaker 3: I don't mind.
Speaker 1: You need to try to try. Well.
Speaker 3: I think it's a great scene as well also because
Speaker 3: it kind of looked like nothing really I've seen before,
Speaker 3: like a real fumbling of like him trying to make
Speaker 3: French toast to make breakfast through his kid, and it
Speaker 3: kind of was like it felt like, yeah, he's going
Speaker 3: to try it, which is great, like I want to
Speaker 3: see him try, but also he doesn't really know what
Speaker 3: to do, do you know what I mean? And it's
Speaker 3: kind of like my friend just had a baby two
Speaker 3: days ago and I was talking to him on the
Speaker 3: phone and he's like, it's crazy, man, they just I
Speaker 3: just had to bring it home from the hospital, and
Speaker 3: now they expect us to know what to do. And
Speaker 3: it's kind of similar to what he was got, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: they wake up, Meryl Street's gone and he's in charge,
Speaker 3: and he's like, well, I've heard she makes breakfast. I'll
Speaker 3: just have a go at breakfast. And you see him
Speaker 3: trying to do it, and he's fucking around in the kitchen.
Speaker 3: Everything's going everywhere, but he's positive and he's trying, but
Speaker 3: he's alone.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, and the.
Speaker 2: Frustration bursts, you know obviously when he burns the French
Speaker 2: toast and you should have realized probably sooner than smell
Speaker 2: on the sizzle, but it bubbles over and it's it's
Speaker 2: a lovely see because yeah, he's trying and he is
Speaker 2: like his wife's left him, and he doesn't I think
Speaker 2: at that stage though, he still believes it's not over
Speaker 2: and she'll be coming back, so he.
Speaker 3: Should because like, yeah, I mean, all we've seen at
Speaker 3: this point was they had a fight and she left,
Speaker 3: So you wouldn't think it's over forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they do let out the detail I think.
Speaker 2: I think when he talks to his boss who will
Speaker 2: get the bos in the second, I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: he gets through the pandemic to be honest that, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, some choices he's made. I'm not sure if yeah,
Speaker 2: you're allad at the sack people because what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I reckon, that's not on.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if he's allowing people to work at
Speaker 1: home during the pandemic. He's not going to set up
Speaker 1: a home office.
Speaker 2: But he does mention that this has come up before,
Speaker 2: like this this idea that she'll come back and you
Speaker 2: know that, you know she's had these things, but.
Speaker 1: We've gone through this before. But it'll be fine.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he does get that letter though, and it's
Speaker 2: a strange choice when he decides to read it blindly
Speaker 2: out loud to the kidder.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever done that before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess they needed to do it
Speaker 3: to advance plot cinematically. Of course it makes sense because
Speaker 3: he needs to you're not going to read it out
Speaker 3: loud to yourself, so of course he just traumatizes the
Speaker 3: poor cher Like I mean, we're talking about, you know,
Speaker 3: like inherent childhood trauma. That think as if your dad
Speaker 3: reading out the letter of why she left, like at
Speaker 3: the moment, you wouldn't realize anything when you're twenty five
Speaker 3: year in therapy for sure. And then he just posted
Speaker 3: on the wall you go to sleep, I want you
Speaker 3: to read this and remember why she left.
Speaker 2: And then there was one scene actually it was a
Speaker 2: very quick scene where he goes and picks him up
Speaker 2: from a party. This is like just starting the show
Speaker 2: that you know, the compromises he has to make for work.
Speaker 2: And what was interesting for me is Billy when he
Speaker 2: yet said Billy's are sitting on a seat near the door.
Speaker 2: It's like, obviously the birthday boy is completely given up
Speaker 2: on him.
Speaker 1: It's kid.
Speaker 2: Do you remember going to parties ever where even a
Speaker 2: sleepover where either you were going to sleep or you
Speaker 2: had people over where you just got completely over each other.
Speaker 3: By the time I remember going to sleepovers, and I'd
Speaker 3: get to like, you know'd get to eight pm and
Speaker 3: I'd be like, you know, I'm ready to go to
Speaker 3: sleep and I'd be like, no, call my parents to
Speaker 3: get him to come and pick me up. I don't
Speaker 3: want to be here anymore, Like I remember, Yeah, I
Speaker 3: used to, and I still get it sometimes, like I'll
Speaker 3: be at the pub and I'll be having the best
Speaker 3: time and then it just hits eleven pm or something
Speaker 3: and everyone's still having fun and I'm like, I'm going
Speaker 3: I just need to leave so i can't be around
Speaker 3: you people.
Speaker 1: So do you call my parents?
Speaker 3: You call my mom, please preferably on her landline, if
Speaker 3: that's possible.
Speaker 1: I do, yeah, that that that will make a lot
Speaker 1: of memories to me. The sorry.
Speaker 2: And then Joanna, So did you expect I assume you
Speaker 2: expected Joanna to return? I assume you, well, if she
Speaker 2: was going to.
Speaker 3: I mean, if it's one, I mean all I've probably
Speaker 3: because all I've heard about the film. Because that's the
Speaker 3: other thing with this film, pet is that, like I
Speaker 3: reference this film in conversation a lot to people, Like
Speaker 3: people will be like, oh, divorce are like yeah, like creamer,
Speaker 3: that's cream Like because I've heard movie buffs talk about
Speaker 3: it quite a lot. So it's like, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 3: I did I did know some stuff that it's so
Speaker 3: I knew she was coming back.
Speaker 2: Did you do that with soviets choice as well, cople
Speaker 2: A lot people do it with so choice, a real
Speaker 2: choice choice.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure I do it with like music, I
Speaker 3: do it with so much stuff that I haven't consumed,
Speaker 3: but I've consumed that the talking points around that thing,
Speaker 3: I just spit it back out to people. Well, it
Speaker 3: makes me sound more interesting, I do.
Speaker 1: I do think.
Speaker 2: And we've speke about divorce being the Zeas and the film,
Speaker 2: I feel like, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 2: if anyone listening knows, but at Yasney podcast at gmail
Speaker 2: dot com. But this feels like the first film that
Speaker 2: like really centered on divorce and took divorce seriously. I
Speaker 2: wasn't going to get distracted by other things going on.
Speaker 2: There's no real violence in this film. There's no there's
Speaker 2: no sex, there's nothing.
Speaker 3: There's so little in it. I can't says how little.
Speaker 3: It's just like domestic duties and like some heated arguments,
Speaker 3: that's all this is film, Like to make it spring
Speaker 3: to life from the page is incredible.
Speaker 2: Yea, the highest grossing film. So Joanna, it turns in
Speaker 2: the window like it's like in a horror movie.
Speaker 1: It's staring at her kid.
Speaker 3: That was one part where I'm like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: Like I mean, I guess you would do I mean,
Speaker 3: you would do that if you wanted to see your
Speaker 3: son then you've been estranged or whatever. But yeah, it's
Speaker 3: just like she's there, just in the window, just staring
Speaker 3: at all.
Speaker 2: I felt like it made like a horror sting, some
Speaker 2: kind of you know, accordion or and then the movie
Speaker 2: takes a real weird Yeah, well it could have easily
Speaker 2: gone that way. Billy falls in the in the park
Speaker 2: and and this is it's important because Ted when they
Speaker 2: when he meets and we'll get to the meeting with
Speaker 2: him and Joanna soon, he kind of blames himself, yes,
Speaker 2: you know, and that comes up in the corpus stings
Speaker 2: later on. But the stunts was interesting because Billy seems
Speaker 2: to fall and land on his right cheek. And I
Speaker 2: didn't watch it back. I meant to watch it back
Speaker 2: to kind of you know, I.
Speaker 3: Mean, it looks like the most seventies thing I've ever
Speaker 3: seen in like you don't really know what's going on.
Speaker 3: It's like the camera's moving like yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's and it it feels like maybe this is
Speaker 2: why the rest of the film is a bit talky
Speaker 2: and a kind of because maybe Robert bend how to
Speaker 2: shoot action. Because he lands is a rock. I think
Speaker 2: he lands on lands something like that. But he seems
Speaker 2: to land on his right cheek, but the blood straight
Speaker 2: away is on his left.
Speaker 3: And if you watch the wells he falls to, I
Speaker 3: want to say, he falls to his right, is that correct?
Speaker 3: And then lands yes, down and then you're right, and
Speaker 3: then doesn't off carrying him like running down the street,
Speaker 3: and there's blood streaming down.
Speaker 2: The ason as soon as he lands on the on
Speaker 2: the side facing up, yeah, which seems to me unless
Speaker 2: he's hit something else going down there was like.
Speaker 3: Maybe someone threw a rock at him as his mid
Speaker 3: fall or something and maybe Joe, yeah, maybe Joan from
Speaker 3: the window broke.
Speaker 1: And then said you fell, you fall, Yeah, you're a
Speaker 1: bad far. I think we've cracked on the open. This
Speaker 1: is a sequel.
Speaker 3: Johanna's a Bitch's.
Speaker 1: A horror film. There's a horror film. Some good running.
Speaker 3: Great running, because like, what's the child's characters name, Billy Billy,
Speaker 3: Billy is not that small.
Speaker 1: No, he's eight years old.
Speaker 3: He's eight years old and doesn't Hoffman, who's not a
Speaker 3: big man either. He's got him under his arm, just
Speaker 3: sprinting through New York traffic in like at full belt,
Speaker 3: full full belt.
Speaker 2: Gibson and crews get a lot of kudos for their
Speaker 2: running and they slide over cars or there's no sliding
Speaker 2: over cars here.
Speaker 1: I granted that it wouldn't great to see that going
Speaker 1: not missing a beat, but I think Be said that
Speaker 1: last time took everything out of me. I'm I'm not
Speaker 1: shooting another one.
Speaker 3: He's like, we don't have the budget.
Speaker 1: So and he's running. Use a dollars. It's actually the act.
Speaker 3: It's him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's running and he's big, he's big. It
Speaker 1: looks big.
Speaker 3: It's uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I assume I assumed there's a dolly shot
Speaker 1: like the cameras.
Speaker 2: It's pretty steady sometimes back in the seventies there with
Speaker 2: this jump in the car and just hold yeah, but
Speaker 2: I think you'll see a bit more wobble than you Actually,
Speaker 2: it's pretty steady.
Speaker 3: Pretty steady, they probably popped it on a dolly. But
Speaker 3: I mean he did run for a while. It's a
Speaker 3: lot like he would have have to been like maybe
Speaker 3: one hundred metes long or something.
Speaker 2: He does good running. He doesn't get the credit. He's
Speaker 2: a good running He runs at a wedding in the
Speaker 2: graduate as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, I mean he is in good I always
Speaker 3: think he's in good shape. He's got a physique which
Speaker 3: I quite like Dustin Hoffman. It's like short but like
Speaker 3: but like built but not muscly. Does that make sense?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, he he.
Speaker 2: Doesn't like he's such a good actor, and this is
Speaker 2: him that he's probably the peak of his powers. You know,
Speaker 2: it's disappointing to hear the stories that he wasn't great
Speaker 2: Meryl strip he was going through He almost didn't do
Speaker 2: this film because he.
Speaker 1: Was going through a messy divorce.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine then doing it, Yes, like that would
Speaker 3: be terrible.
Speaker 2: But he said that it was actually quite therapeutic because
Speaker 2: he could get a lot of it out and he actually.
Speaker 1: Helped, like this, tweak the script to make it feel
Speaker 1: more real.
Speaker 3: That's so funny. Here I was thinking he was a
Speaker 3: great actor. He's just actually just playing.
Speaker 1: Just turn the camera on, it'll come out, don't worry.
Speaker 2: And then Meryl Streep, she dated John Gazal who missed
Speaker 2: it one. I'm going to start calling him because he's
Speaker 2: potentially the only actor in the world. You know, he's
Speaker 2: made more than one or two films that has a
Speaker 2: one hundred percent strike rate with his films. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: he makes five films and they are the Godfather films
Speaker 2: one and two plays Fredo, the Conversation, Dear Hunter and
Speaker 2: Dog They afternoon.
Speaker 3: That's crazy, that's insane.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he dies after he makes a Deer Hunter. He
Speaker 2: was dating Meryll Street was also in a Deer Hunter.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so she was still grieving him. She was in
Speaker 1: a weird space as well. So this is what you do.
Speaker 1: People die around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bring the bring your trauma to work kids. But
Speaker 2: what one thing Hoffman will do to elicit emotion out
Speaker 2: of Meryl.
Speaker 3: Street besides slapping her.
Speaker 2: Besides slapping her, Hopefully the director took him a son
Speaker 2: and maybe less slapping. I know it's you can't do that,
Speaker 2: and you know, and you know it doesn't happen. Doesn't
Speaker 2: realize that it's Meryl Streep he's dealing with. Yet, Yes,
Speaker 2: of course that's the other thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like but what he would do was
Speaker 1: someone's go up to her and whispered John Czel's name. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's crazy.
Speaker 3: That's worse than the slap, that's what. Yeah, that's like
Speaker 3: psychological warfare.
Speaker 1: It's full on.
Speaker 3: But I guess his argument that that would get her,
Speaker 3: I know, And we've spoken.
Speaker 2: A bit about this on the podcast. The Shining is
Speaker 2: example where they would you know, Kubrick could mess with Shelley,
Speaker 2: you know, like and to the point where it's like fun,
Speaker 2: this is what it's like, and it's like just.
Speaker 1: Hide the actors who can do the job well.
Speaker 3: Actors and directors. I think they hide behind the thing
Speaker 3: that they're like crazy artistic and they need to do
Speaker 3: this stuff to get the best performances out of people
Speaker 3: or themselves or whatever. But it's also like you're still
Speaker 3: at work, you know what I mean. Maybe it's okay,
Speaker 3: I don't know, but like whispering your dead the dead
Speaker 3: partner's name in someone's ear is like horrible. Although she
Speaker 3: did win an Academy Award, she win.
Speaker 2: They both they both say they both win the Oscars
Speaker 2: for Best Actor Hoffman and Best Supporting actress Meryl Street
Speaker 2: when he gets to the hospital. This is something that
Speaker 2: has an age terribly. But it was a bit weird
Speaker 2: when the doctor says, you can't be in the wrong.
Speaker 2: I think have been doctor? Are you a pedophile? Just
Speaker 2: tell me that I'll get another doctor, because why can't
Speaker 2: I be in the room?
Speaker 1: We might ches.
Speaker 3: It's not like I thought the like birth was the
Speaker 3: only thing that used to be like, you can't come
Speaker 3: in stitches.
Speaker 2: It's like, what do you care if he sees the
Speaker 2: stitches opening him up? Yeah, you could do the stitches yourself.
Speaker 3: Probably let him be I guess again they wanted to
Speaker 3: see Hoffman get angry and be like he's my son
Speaker 3: or whatever. But surely in the seventies you could still
Speaker 3: watch someone get stitches, like that's they used to just
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the seventies. But like before they used
Speaker 3: to just make you eat some wood, have a shot
Speaker 3: of whiskey, and they would saw your leg off if
Speaker 3: you like how to cut anyone was allowed to watch that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then what they moved into not being able to
Speaker 3: see stitch.
Speaker 1: It's like, come on, crazy, we need to be better.
Speaker 1: They meet.
Speaker 2: They meet finally, Joanna calls and this this feels like
Speaker 2: the scene we were waiting for. We knew it was
Speaker 2: going to happen. What did you What did you like
Speaker 2: about it?
Speaker 1: What didn't you like?
Speaker 3: When so they're at the rest of the restaurant, get
Speaker 3: the restaurant.
Speaker 1: I liked it.
Speaker 3: I liked I liked how it started. They were very friendly,
Speaker 3: and I thought that is that is true of how
Speaker 3: you would kind of be if you hadn't seen someone
Speaker 3: for fifteen months that you were very close with and
Speaker 3: you shared a child like and they were both kind
Speaker 3: of unexpected. They were kind of like not sure of
Speaker 3: what was going to happen, at least Hoffman especially, I
Speaker 3: feel like he was more excited.
Speaker 2: I feel like his mind was open to what could
Speaker 2: potentially hold to the point where it's just her coming back.
Speaker 3: Yes, And the way she was like quite excited and
Speaker 3: felt open as well. When she sat in that You're like, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe it's going to be a reconciliation. But then her,
Speaker 3: I mean, she's so brilliant in this sea and she's like, oh,
Speaker 3: I had some I had stuff planned I wanted to say,
Speaker 3: And it slowly becomes apparent that she is there to
Speaker 3: say the worst thing possible like that he could ever
Speaker 3: hear like truly, She's like, I'm here to take Billy.
Speaker 3: I want custody, And it's like the exact it's like
Speaker 3: a dagger in his heart. He's finally reconciled with becoming
Speaker 3: a parent and like doing, and he's okay with the
Speaker 3: domestic duties and he's loving it. It's his life. And
Speaker 3: then this is just the biggest curve bull you could throw.
Speaker 2: It's like it's like a coming of age film in
Speaker 2: a way, but it doesn't halfman coming of age. But
Speaker 2: he's learning how to parent. They are such they're so tight.
Speaker 2: It's like when Meryl Street comes back. This isn't a
Speaker 2: basketball analogy. It'd be like if Kyrie Irving said next year,
Speaker 2: I'm going back to Boston and Boston be like, no,
Speaker 2: but we're good now.
Speaker 1: Actually know Fingerscus, we won the championship. What he do?
Speaker 1: We don't know what?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't make sense. Let's have a listen to that.
Speaker 2: See Meryl Streep doesn't Hoffman, don't try to bully me.
Speaker 1: I'm not getting defensive. Who will gone to the house fifteen?
Speaker 6: I don't care.
Speaker 9: I am still his mother.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 7: From three thousand Miles away, and just because you sent
Speaker 7: a few polsecodes, it gives you the right to come
Speaker 7: back here.
Speaker 9: Never stop wanting him.
Speaker 1: What makes you so sure he wants you?
Speaker 9: What makes you so sure he doesn't want me?
Speaker 7: Okay, look we're going to sit here in back this
Speaker 7: back and forth like it works for eight years, makes
Speaker 7: it's like all times.
Speaker 6: Well, you can't deny met tell me about what I
Speaker 6: can or cannot do.
Speaker 7: Don't talk to me that way.
Speaker 1: I don't want to get out. You're going to have
Speaker 1: to do it. You're going to have to do it.
Speaker 1: I'm going to have to do it.
Speaker 7: I'm very sorry about this because just do what you.
Speaker 3: Have to do.
Speaker 2: So another fun fact that glass smash was improvised and
Speaker 2: Meryl Strep had no idea it was going to happen.
Speaker 3: It was a good it caught my eye the glass
Speaker 3: because from it was the quickest backhand like glass smack
Speaker 3: I've ever seen. I was like, it did seem like
Speaker 3: it was instinctive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so he told the cinematographer I think maybe
Speaker 2: the director you as well, So that he was he
Speaker 2: was at the table and the cinematographer was like this,
Speaker 2: like course this like moving his hand, let me be
Speaker 2: close a little bit, so he's telling you where to
Speaker 2: place it so you wouldn't hit Meryl Streep. What I've noticed,
Speaker 2: which i've actually and I've watched a few people talk about,
Speaker 2: including Meryl Streep and and and Dustin Hoffman talk about
Speaker 2: this scene. But one thing that nobody's mentioned. I'm surprised
Speaker 2: Hoffman doesn't mention it because he moved to glass at
Speaker 2: one point, like when he got decides I'm not here that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's all of a sudden, not a celebratory.
Speaker 3: He's quite shaky though as well in the whole thing
Speaker 3: with his hands moving around.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he moves a glass away almost towards towards myew
Speaker 2: Street with the center of the table, and then he
Speaker 2: kind of about a beat later, he takes it back
Speaker 2: and places it closer to him, closer to the edge.
Speaker 2: And I can only assume it's actually it's actually Dustin
Speaker 2: Hoffmann as opposed to Ted realizing either glass needs actually
Speaker 2: be over here.
Speaker 1: Oh totally, yeah, it's I'm about to do.
Speaker 3: It's like when you're doing stand up and you're forgotten
Speaker 3: the next bit, and then you're doing the bit and
Speaker 3: you're like trying to think about how you can link
Speaker 3: to whatever. Yeah, he would have been doing the scene
Speaker 3: and being like, oh shit, I need to smash that glass.
Speaker 2: Yeah back, So, like I do, remains in character. And
Speaker 2: she has been so generous with talking about this, like
Speaker 2: she doesn't deny there was some stuff that she did
Speaker 2: not appreciate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, so I haven't seen anything about this extra
Speaker 3: stuff about the film.
Speaker 2: But what she says is, I've got no interest in
Speaker 2: shaming somebody who's matured, has gone on their own journey totally,
Speaker 2: you know, and like you know, it's Mel Streep, you know,
Speaker 2: if you if you know, without going down to cancel
Speaker 2: culture of the route, but Mel shows a very mature
Speaker 2: outlook on you think, yeah, because you know, it was
Speaker 2: quite shocking.
Speaker 1: It's it's a violent act. It really is, like you know,
Speaker 1: if you don't know they have glass shatter in a
Speaker 1: war right next to you and not like.
Speaker 3: Have I mean you can see in his psycho brain
Speaker 3: how it would have been, Like that's that'll create the
Speaker 3: realism that we need, like her being shocked about the
Speaker 3: guys shattering it's like, I'm.
Speaker 1: Surprised that didn't come up.
Speaker 2: And maybe because it was who knows, who knows how
Speaker 2: they if they shot it chronologically or but I wonder
Speaker 2: you hope.
Speaker 3: It wasn't the best the slap then he's doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's just gonna happen in every scene.
Speaker 3: Get a break, it hit something, because it's the.
Speaker 2: Only time we see him really act down from memory,
Speaker 2: you know, in that kind of close environment kind of way.
Speaker 1: But I'm surprised in a way he didn't come up
Speaker 1: in court proceedings.
Speaker 3: Well, no, he does lose or that the glass. Ye, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're totally right. He does get angry in the court proceedings,
Speaker 3: but that's it. Like when he smashed the glass. It
Speaker 3: did come. It's like so out of character for him,
Speaker 3: because he does get angry a few times, but he
Speaker 3: seems so mature and hold it. Then for him to
Speaker 3: smash the glass, I guess it is actually quite you know,
Speaker 3: it helps his scene because I feel like it really
Speaker 3: just shows how height and the emotions are when people
Speaker 3: get their kids and custody battles, Like how angry you
Speaker 3: can get and how devastating a blow what she said
Speaker 3: was to him. But yeah, it is interesting, especially considering
Speaker 3: the other stuff that gets brought back up in the
Speaker 3: corp proceeding that she wasn't like he smashed the glass
Speaker 3: in front like I would have been.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And that's because it was improvised. Maybe when they
Speaker 2: you think they filmed.
Speaker 3: The corp proceedings before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it explains why it wasn't if that's a scripted moment,
Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, Ted smashes glass, you know, and walks out.
Speaker 2: Then I think when you're writing that, you're kind of thinking, well,
Speaker 2: this should actually yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: It should play a Oh that's so interesting to the point.
Speaker 2: And this is to the point where also like that's
Speaker 2: what a slap doesn't doesn't make sense, you know, like
Speaker 2: I think the glass does, because.
Speaker 3: I think the glass really works slashing.
Speaker 2: I think it's a month of feeling of being abandoned
Speaker 2: in a way, yeah, you know, and and then getting
Speaker 2: the phone call. He's he's clearly there in a good mood.
Speaker 2: Everyone will have their own interpretation. My interpretation is that
Speaker 2: he thinks this is the potentially getting the family.
Speaker 3: Back to I feel like it is as well. The
Speaker 3: way he comes in and like he's almost like talking
Speaker 3: like a little schoolboy, like he's very excited. He's like,
Speaker 3: good does it hell? You know, and they're like both
Speaker 3: giggling it feels that way, and it's really set up
Speaker 3: so for it to end that way with the glass smashing,
Speaker 3: it's like just zeroed a hundred, like just bottoming out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's it's you know, comes up in this
Speaker 2: podcast a bit like in every scene really, I think
Speaker 2: McKeith talks about you should have, like if you have
Speaker 2: like a positive emotion going into a scene. So everyone's like,
Speaker 2: if you look at it, doesn't Hoffin's perspective, He's feeling
Speaker 2: positive at the end of this scene.
Speaker 1: By the end of that scene. It should always happen
Speaker 1: in every scene.
Speaker 2: You want a negative you wanted a negative emotion, yeah,
Speaker 2: emotional energy, and this is like a prime example of that.
Speaker 2: Oh exactly. Yeah, it's so good. Then we get to
Speaker 2: the court case. We know it's coming.
Speaker 1: He goes all the job stuff, he gets fired.
Speaker 3: It's so weird when he gets fired.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have a listen a ted getting fired. You
Speaker 1: don't know how badly I feel.
Speaker 5: I've been getting a lot of pressure from the guys upstairs,
Speaker 5: and there wasn't anything else I could do.
Speaker 1: A listen.
Speaker 5: I thought about this a lot, and it's really better
Speaker 5: this way. I mean, if I was to take away
Speaker 5: your stripes. If I was to put you on some
Speaker 5: schlock account, you'd hate it. You'd hate me for doing
Speaker 5: it to you. This way, it's a clean break. And
Speaker 5: believe me, that's the best thing.
Speaker 7: You know that my wife is just fighting me from custard.
Speaker 7: You know that we're going to court. Do you know
Speaker 7: what my chances are? I'm not I'm one of a job.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Look, I understand that you're ever said.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm god sinks.
Speaker 7: I don't want to beg I'm asking you please as
Speaker 7: a friend.
Speaker 1: Huh, ted I'm asking you.
Speaker 10: You're an extremely bright guy.
Speaker 1: You really are.
Speaker 10: You gonna hell up a talent. You're gonna be okay,
Speaker 10: You're gonna land on your feet. You're gonna survive, Teddy. Look,
Speaker 10: I may be a little shorter cage, No big worry
Speaker 10: about paying us back.
Speaker 7: Shame on you.
Speaker 1: Again handling himself with dignity.
Speaker 3: He did, yeah, spastically. And there's a lot of glasses
Speaker 3: on the table and that, Yeah, they're all drink red wine.
Speaker 3: There's water glasses.
Speaker 1: He had the opportunity.
Speaker 3: It's also like he storms out at the end of
Speaker 3: that scene. And I was thinking about it because I've
Speaker 3: never been fired like face to face, which would be
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's a hell of an experience, but he
Speaker 3: doesn't offer to pick up the tab or in any
Speaker 3: way be like, so should we split this?
Speaker 1: He gets stormed out, which would kind of it feels.
Speaker 2: So powerful to do it would be a great comedic moment.
Speaker 2: Though if the boss said as doesn't hoff one.
Speaker 1: Was walking out ted. It turns around, should we split this?
Speaker 3: Do you want to try? I can pick it up
Speaker 3: if you transfer me, we'll just it.
Speaker 1: You had to.
Speaker 2: Because the scene starts with him saying about this funny
Speaker 2: moment and how cute, and he said, if you put
Speaker 2: on weight that it's gone to your noose, and and
Speaker 2: the boss is not is this not well, it's.
Speaker 3: The previous scene. It just is like and we're just
Speaker 3: going down, just ending in another low point.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and yeah, the boss, this idea of the boss
Speaker 2: is going you hate it. You know I'm doing you
Speaker 2: a favor. You hate it so well, No, because I'm
Speaker 2: getting a divorce, I need a job. So if you
Speaker 2: need to put me into it, into another area, I'm
Speaker 2: happy to do that. Yeah, that was one of the things.
Speaker 2: And it works, it doesn't disrupt the movie. But that
Speaker 2: was one of the things if when I think about it,
Speaker 2: it's like, this could have been worked out potentially. I
Speaker 2: think now it would have been worked out.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's hard, a lot hard to de fire
Speaker 3: someone in twenty twenty two, especially in a big organization.
Speaker 3: You get repositioned and you know there's mediation and there's
Speaker 3: an HR. You don't just get taken the lunch and
Speaker 3: they're like, yeah, I'm not enjoying you spending more time
Speaker 3: with your sons. So you're like, it's crazy just to
Speaker 3: fire him without any reason except being like, I'm not
Speaker 3: liking your current vibe. Really, but anyway, Yeah, it did
Speaker 3: it kind of I guess needed to happen for the film.
Speaker 3: It was like, yeah, and then it does help. It
Speaker 3: does come back because he had to take a lower
Speaker 3: paying job.
Speaker 1: Yes, so it helps the court. And there's that courtroom
Speaker 1: line where he says, you're the only person taking a
Speaker 1: climbing the ladder.
Speaker 3: Climbing the ladder taking a pay cut cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, let's go to the court case. There's some
Speaker 2: fine work going on. So Meryl Streep stood in just
Speaker 2: the best's the best?
Speaker 3: She's great.
Speaker 1: Do you think she's the greatest actor? About like you know,
Speaker 1: of our lifetime.
Speaker 3: Well, not having seen her in this, like obviously I
Speaker 3: thought it was great, but then I was like blown
Speaker 3: away by that because she's not in it as much
Speaker 3: as Dustin Hoffmann. He's kind of really the same, and
Speaker 3: he's brilliant in this as well, but it's like every
Speaker 3: scene she is in, even with him, she dominates that.
Speaker 3: It's like you can't look away. And it's like the
Speaker 3: range she can show emotion is like maybe unlike anyone else,
Speaker 3: it's like you feel it, you feel it more. It's
Speaker 3: like cutting the way she can kind of display something
Speaker 3: that you've somehow felt that didn't even you didn't even
Speaker 3: know you'd like felt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the way she releases words in it from
Speaker 1: her mouth, she the pausing.
Speaker 3: That's a great way to describe it, the release, because
Speaker 3: that's what it is. Like I've done a bit of acting,
Speaker 3: not as much as you, and I'm horrific at it.
Speaker 3: But it's like the decisions you have to make about
Speaker 3: how you want to save something. You think you just
Speaker 3: say it, you'd be like, oh, I'm leaving you, but
Speaker 3: there's like so much you have to kind of consider,
Speaker 3: and yeah, you're right. The release of the words is
Speaker 3: is and the way she does it is beautiful and
Speaker 3: on point every time.
Speaker 2: Well, that restaurant scene where she doesn't have and he's waiting, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, it's probably the best example of he's waiting
Speaker 2: for her to say I'm coming back, and she said
Speaker 2: I want my son back. Yeah, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 2: it wasn't the words, it was the fucking gaps between
Speaker 2: the words. So she she believed, so take any mind.
Speaker 2: Kramer Versus Kramer is directed by a man, written by
Speaker 2: a man, based on a novel by a man.
Speaker 1: Fella male producers, a male.
Speaker 3: And two men discussing it right now and two men
Speaker 3: discussing it.
Speaker 2: We cannot get away from it. So Meryl Street believed
Speaker 2: that Joanna was the villain in this piece of the
Speaker 2: weight was written.
Speaker 1: So she.
Speaker 2: She kind of stepped in particular in this court scene.
Speaker 2: She stepped in and said, I her thing was, the
Speaker 2: audience doesn't really get to hear from Joanna in her
Speaker 2: own words, why she why she left. She's just kind
Speaker 2: of villainized and so and they all had a meeting,
Speaker 2: her Benton and Dustin Hoffman, and she put her case
Speaker 2: forward and Robert Benton said, and doesn't oft't had a
Speaker 2: slightly different kind of.
Speaker 1: Take on it.
Speaker 3: I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thankfully there's no glass and there's not another person
Speaker 2: in the room. So they all went off and wrote
Speaker 2: their own monologue for this song.
Speaker 1: Really that's great, and Street thankfully won.
Speaker 2: So what we hear and let's have a listen to
Speaker 2: her Meryl Streep's court room in the in the in
Speaker 2: the not I guess the witness box.
Speaker 1: She's on the stairs, on the stand's whatever.
Speaker 3: That's probably not the stair.
Speaker 1: That's probably the stand. I think, I think the stand.
Speaker 3: We'll call it a stand.
Speaker 1: We want the stand. And then this was written by
Speaker 1: Meryl Street.
Speaker 9: I'm not saying he doesn't need his father, but I
Speaker 9: really believe he needs me more. I was his mummy
Speaker 9: for five and a half years, and Ted took over
Speaker 9: that role for eighteen months. But I don't know how
Speaker 9: anybody can possibly believe that I have less of a
Speaker 9: steak in mothering that little boy than mister Cramer does.
Speaker 9: I'm his mother.
Speaker 1: I'm his mother so good. So yeah, and it's not
Speaker 1: flowery like she could have gone away.
Speaker 2: Well, I would love to kind of read what happened,
Speaker 2: came up with it could have been so flowering, over
Speaker 2: the top, hawkish, but she just keeps it.
Speaker 1: It's so real.
Speaker 3: It's so real. It's just actually the emotion coming out
Speaker 3: being like whatever you want to say. It's like, this
Speaker 3: is my case. I'm his mother of this kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what's so good about the whole film And
Speaker 2: we've mentioned a couple of times, but it's worth repeating
Speaker 2: during this court case is that they're both you feel
Speaker 2: for both of them. It's a horrible situation. I've never
Speaker 2: been through a divorce. My parents are still together.
Speaker 3: Must be nice.
Speaker 1: Oh, earlier you were like, I got over rolls.
Speaker 3: For forty five minutes, you're gonna whisper my dad's name
Speaker 3: in my ear?
Speaker 1: But yeah, so it I I I lost my train
Speaker 1: of thought.
Speaker 3: You've never been through a divorce, but to see it
Speaker 3: play out, yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Seat play out like it's it's painful.
Speaker 2: I remember, you know, I'm sure you won't mind me saying,
Speaker 2: like a friend, you know, Lawrence Mooney he said to
Speaker 2: me he'd been through it, and he said ours was pretty,
Speaker 2: you know, pretty amicable, you know, but even when the
Speaker 2: amicable circumstances, it's fucking awful.
Speaker 1: It's so painful.
Speaker 3: Well, that's the thing, and this is why, I mean,
Speaker 3: they don't seem to hate each other. And I think
Speaker 3: that audio you just played, there's a series of I mean,
Speaker 3: the first half of that speech, she says something and
Speaker 3: Dustin Hoffman Mount's mouth something back to her on the
Speaker 3: stand and says, yeah, I can't remember what, but I
Speaker 3: think it says it's not your fault.
Speaker 2: I think I think that. I think that happens when
Speaker 2: she's been cross examined and she's been thrilled and they're like,
Speaker 2: you know, are you a bad mother?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And he's like, you know, saying no, yeah you're not.
Speaker 2: And that that the fact they handle themselves with so
Speaker 2: much dignity and the fact that you can absolutely see
Speaker 2: both sides, both points of view, is what makes this movie,
Speaker 2: I think, timeless, and I imagine why it was the
Speaker 2: highest grossing film.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: And the whole thing about the villain, about Meryl Streep's
Speaker 3: character being played at the villain, it's like, I don't think,
Speaker 3: definitely in the first half you could make the argument
Speaker 3: because she's so absent, and she needs to be absent,
Speaker 3: because that's how you create the realism. But it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, you could argue towards the end that she's
Speaker 3: actually the hero of the film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well absolutely yeah, And we'll get to that very soon,
Speaker 2: because let's have listened to also Ted on the Stand,
Speaker 2: one of the original Ted Talks.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's why you got all right, Thanks God, that's good.
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. Well done. Let's have listened to
Speaker 1: Ted on the Stand.
Speaker 8: You know, I have a lot of time think about
Speaker 8: what does it make somebody a good parent?
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 8: It has to do with constancy.
Speaker 1: It has to do with with with patience.
Speaker 8: It has to do with listening to him, has to
Speaker 8: do with pretending to listen to him when you can't
Speaker 8: even listen anymore. It has to deal with love like
Speaker 8: like like like she was saying. And I don't know
Speaker 8: where it's written, it says that a woman has has
Speaker 8: a corner on that market, that a man has any
Speaker 8: less of those emotions than than a woman does. Billy
Speaker 8: has a home with me. I made it the best
Speaker 8: I could. It's not perfect. I'm not a perfect parent.
Speaker 8: Sometimes I don't have enough patience and I forget that
Speaker 8: he's a it's a little kid.
Speaker 1: But I'm there.
Speaker 8: I get up in the morning and then we eat breakfast,
Speaker 8: and he talks to me, and then we go to school,
Speaker 8: and at night we have dinner together and we talked
Speaker 8: inn and I read to him, and.
Speaker 1: We built a life together and we love each other.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's sold, it's great.
Speaker 3: Did he write that one as well?
Speaker 2: But also I mean he may have because he, uh,
Speaker 2: as I mentioned earlier, contributed to the scripts basically his
Speaker 2: own experiences. And I feel I feel like he's lawyer
Speaker 2: let him down a little bit, or maybe the court
Speaker 2: let him down.
Speaker 1: Because the reason.
Speaker 2: Billy ends up, we'll joining a wins custody of Billy
Speaker 2: really comes down to that playground. That's how you made
Speaker 2: the feel and so also, but also not just that,
Speaker 2: the fact that he lost his job recently.
Speaker 3: Yes, and he starts turning. I've also looked up how
Speaker 3: much because they were like thirty grand or something.
Speaker 1: They're early Yeah, so he was on about twenty grand
Speaker 1: apparently that's.
Speaker 3: About one hundred and fifty seven thousand dollars today.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 3: I mean, they're doing it all right.
Speaker 1: They're doing all right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like they're maybe they should get back together, back.
Speaker 3: Together double double that income, three hundred grand a year.
Speaker 3: You could maybe buy a house in Sydney.
Speaker 1: How much will that apartment in New Y'll be worth? Now?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, tell that Cramer's get this ship together.
Speaker 3: Come on, Cramer.
Speaker 1: But I feel like, like, surely.
Speaker 2: That's an easy cross examine the idea that he's on
Speaker 2: a lower paying wage. Now, yes, only by about three
Speaker 2: thousand dollars, which is probably ninety thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: That yeah, it's two million dollars, two million dollars.
Speaker 2: But surely to make the argument is a simple argument
Speaker 2: to make he took a lower wage to look after
Speaker 2: his son.
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I slam dunking court.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Instead they flipped that being like you're a bad
Speaker 3: parent because you and he didn't even rebuttle with being like, no,
Speaker 3: I got to.
Speaker 1: Be kicking the lawyer in machins.
Speaker 3: Gun get up up there and tell them that I
Speaker 3: did it because I'm a better parent. Yeah, I think
Speaker 3: that the progressiveness thing. I just thought about this and
Speaker 3: then coming through listening back to that audio, it's like
Speaker 3: him using the point is like, I don't know where
Speaker 3: it says that a man can't be as good a
Speaker 3: parent as like, I mean, you know, in this world
Speaker 3: we live in now of like gender being more of
Speaker 3: a concept and on a sliding scale or whatever. It
Speaker 3: is so ahead of its time to be now talking
Speaker 3: about why does gender play this right? Obviously there's like
Speaker 3: maternal aspects that you know mothers have with children, like
Speaker 3: biological factors, but it is so it's so relevant now
Speaker 3: being like gender doesn't matter. It's about love and like
Speaker 3: who loves their child and who's bringing them up in
Speaker 3: a better home. And it's yeah, it's really like it's
Speaker 3: you could watch this like, I mean I watched it
Speaker 3: yesterday and it's like absolutely at home right now in
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the scene where we played the first see
Speaker 2: me play the ice cream scene be a little ship,
Speaker 2: by the way, I mean, I love that equinum a
Speaker 2: little shit because I was just one of my kids.
Speaker 2: Of course, I remember being in we went traveling and
Speaker 2: we went the crack out in Poland. And my oldest kid,
Speaker 2: who's I must say, brilliant, he's nineteen hour and a
Speaker 2: brilliant kid has given us so little trouble over the years,
Speaker 2: like Touchwood, but he was just in a mood like hell,
Speaker 2: you just and you know you're in cafes and you're
Speaker 2: so nervous when you go to a cafe when you
Speaker 2: got kids and spilling stuff and you feel like this.
Speaker 1: Let's just get in it out. We're bothering everybody. Let's
Speaker 1: just get in and out.
Speaker 3: I love that you feel that way, because that's how
Speaker 3: I feel when people bring them. Well, I'm like, can
Speaker 3: you not burden us all in this tiny cafe with
Speaker 3: your life choices? Well, you know what I encourage.
Speaker 1: I encourage people to not feel flustered.
Speaker 2: I was wrong to feel flustered if I had kids
Speaker 2: now with my life experience, now I'd go in and
Speaker 2: fucking be a boss.
Speaker 1: About it, you know what.
Speaker 2: You know what, Yeah, I've got a kid and he's
Speaker 2: carrying on airplanes. So what you've got noise canceling headphones
Speaker 2: to put them on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean it's just life. Yeah, just exactly.
Speaker 3: So I you're the most annoing guys, embrace my screaming child.
Speaker 3: It's your problem, not mine.
Speaker 2: But that's not how I was, by the way, But
Speaker 2: now my kids are actually teenagers that they generally aren't
Speaker 2: pissing people off in the small adults in the restaurant.
Speaker 1: So it was in a bit of a moon that day,
Speaker 1: and we tried everything.
Speaker 2: We tried everything, you know, from you know, kind of
Speaker 2: some stern words, you know, across the table, to giving
Speaker 2: him the eye.
Speaker 1: I call it the death grip, you know, where you
Speaker 1: get their hands smack anhim.
Speaker 2: We just hold their hand, give a little twist and
Speaker 2: get your thumb and it's like buried into It's like
Speaker 2: you know, and the people.
Speaker 1: At the table next public.
Speaker 2: That's fine because people at the next table, they think,
Speaker 2: look at those why why don't we hold hands at the.
Speaker 1: Table like the family next to us.
Speaker 3: So just upgrade to a Chinese burden.
Speaker 1: China. Chinese burnt still happened.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but they were big when I was Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean I never got one from a parent.
Speaker 1: But when you start getting hair in your arms, oh really,
Speaker 1: no good.
Speaker 2: So I got to the point where I had taken
Speaker 2: down an alleyway in crack out this cobble stone, and they.
Speaker 1: Said, mate, you are giving me the fucking ships. You
Speaker 1: gotta fucking stop it. You're acting like a little ass.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 1: And he and I may have only dropped the one
Speaker 1: F bomb, but look on his face a shot, look
Speaker 1: at his face? If it worked?
Speaker 3: You do you swear in front of Well, when they
Speaker 3: were younger, did you swear.
Speaker 1: In front of the No?
Speaker 2: No, not a whole bunch. So this was quite shocking,
Speaker 2: yeah to them. But there certainly been times with myself
Speaker 2: and my wife had like you know, called them like
Speaker 2: a little ship or anything.
Speaker 1: Like that where we've been. So at the end of
Speaker 1: our tether a.
Speaker 3: Little ship, I came, I was a little ship as well.
Speaker 3: It's like whatever I got, I deserved.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I had no issue with smacking, like like
Speaker 2: like in my being smacked as a kid, like there's
Speaker 2: no trauma.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I got associated with wooden spoon. It's broken
Speaker 3: on my.
Speaker 1: Well, I I have mad about this before. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure about it on this podcast.
Speaker 2: But when we had Lean being oldest, he got ea
Speaker 2: cups and smacks, you know, like and then we stopped.
Speaker 2: He got to point, you know, when he was seventeen eighteen, No,
Speaker 2: but we stopped because we're like, this doesn't it's not
Speaker 2: working and it makes you feel bad. And that's that's
Speaker 2: why I love about that scene. He says he calls
Speaker 2: him a little ship, slams the door, he goes. Any
Speaker 2: fact that you know what you do when you're a parent,
Speaker 2: when you do that, you fucking go to another room
Speaker 2: and you immediately feel bad. So that's so true. And
Speaker 2: and that's why I stopped. I thought, this is not
Speaker 2: making I don't feel any better. There's no release of
Speaker 2: energy in emotion. It makes it worse for me. He's
Speaker 2: not learning, you know, he's not learning anything from it.
Speaker 3: He's just getting more annoyed.
Speaker 2: He is getting more annoyed. So and when it was older,
Speaker 2: like early kind of teenagers, I apologize for it. Oh really, yeah,
Speaker 2: I said, I said, you copt a couple of smacks,
Speaker 2: you know, it was always on the bum by.
Speaker 1: The way, but once a day.
Speaker 3: No, you did give him some boxing gloves.
Speaker 2: He had a let's go to let's go to work.
Speaker 2: It's where we work things out the house or garage.
Speaker 2: So and I said, you know, for some reason, smacking
Speaker 2: kind of came up. He was in the news or
Speaker 2: it was a movie. And I said, mate, you cut
Speaker 2: a couple of smacks, you know on the bum where
Speaker 2: you do you remember?
Speaker 3: He goes, oh, not really, and you're like, yeah, it
Speaker 3: didn't happen then, yeah, yeah, yeah, not in this house.
Speaker 3: It never did.
Speaker 2: Or like high fives, yeah, like high fives to your
Speaker 2: bum aggressive high fives and so andy, but he appreciated.
Speaker 2: I think I mentioned because yeah, these brothers never got
Speaker 2: smacked because you know, I stopped doing it, but he was.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, Billy then has the choice and when he
Speaker 2: actually they go back in and they make up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they had that lovely time, which is again
Speaker 1: there's all these little really progressive.
Speaker 2: Comments on marriage, and I think it's in that scene
Speaker 2: he says something like I thought if I was happy,
Speaker 2: she was happy. Yeah, And there's there's some stuff which
Speaker 2: is like really incredible. I think I'll be married twenty
Speaker 2: years next year. And I do get to ask occasionally,
Speaker 2: like you know what sometimes in interviews it's not like
Speaker 2: friends kind of sourcing me out for it relationship advice, Pete,
Speaker 2: their relationship and when you do a seriously how to
Speaker 2: stay married? I could ask a lot about you know,
Speaker 2: you know that kind of.
Speaker 1: Stuff, Pete.
Speaker 3: What is your number one? Two?
Speaker 1: Well, we'll tell you. I'll tell you sent on before
Speaker 1: you propose to you Argentina, your beauty.
Speaker 2: You can ever be on auto pilot, you know, like
Speaker 2: so you always have to engage in your marriage as
Speaker 2: soon as you kind of stop thinking of the other
Speaker 2: person and then I might say there have been times
Speaker 2: that hasn't happened in my own marriage, but there haven't
Speaker 2: been the good times.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: It's when you are engaging and thinking of the other person,
Speaker 2: are they happy, are they getting what they need out
Speaker 2: of this marriage? That your marriage is going to be
Speaker 2: really strong, I think, And I think he has that
Speaker 2: realization in that scene where he kind of says, you know,
Speaker 2: I was happy, So I assume she was happy, and
Speaker 2: you know, he was having a great career, and she
Speaker 2: actually hadn't really thought about this. She actually not getting
Speaker 2: what she needs or what she wants. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: think that's really Again, another progressive.
Speaker 3: It's such a progressive thing because it is kind of
Speaker 3: like touching on what I guess was like the stereotypical
Speaker 3: relationship of the man goes to work and the woman's
Speaker 3: stay home with the kid.
Speaker 1: But that is not what a living, breathing relationship is.
Speaker 3: It's not. I mean, that's also great advice that he's
Speaker 3: like in that monologue to be like I thought of
Speaker 3: I was happy, she would be happy. It's like everyone
Speaker 3: should take that. It's not about it's like you both
Speaker 3: have separate lives in a relationship. But you do have
Speaker 3: to have this bit in the middle that coexists that
Speaker 3: you kind of feed into. And it's and it's more
Speaker 3: than being separate and both being happy. You know, there's
Speaker 3: so many things in a relationship that I'm still learning
Speaker 3: about and like, you know, like it's okay if someone
Speaker 3: changes in a because people have changed, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. And part of being in a relationship is
Speaker 3: seeing your partner changing and being okay with them, not
Speaker 3: being like, well, that's not the opinion you had when
Speaker 3: we got together. It's like being okay with the change
Speaker 3: and like living with it and growing with it. It's
Speaker 3: like this living, breathing thing you can't be too, you know,
Speaker 3: blindfolded the whole time to what you're doing.
Speaker 1: So basically this is you say to your girlfriend, you
Speaker 1: need to watch it. At the part of the game,
Speaker 1: just give it one more juels if you listen. It's
Speaker 1: such a great movie.
Speaker 3: They all get killed at the end. You know, you've
Speaker 3: got to watch it.
Speaker 2: So it comes then down to uh uh, Joanna gets
Speaker 2: the rights, and which you always feel that's going to happen,
Speaker 2: is going to happen, you know, And I'm not sure
Speaker 2: what the situation is in courts, these family courts these days,
Speaker 2: but it's always traditionally the mother's always had more power
Speaker 2: as far as custody goes. So it's not unexpected that
Speaker 2: Joanna ends up getting the rights. And then Ted's going
Speaker 2: to challenge it, and he's going to spend as much
Speaker 2: money as needs be and then it's and then it
Speaker 2: comes down to would you put Billy on the stand,
Speaker 2: because that's what it's going to come down to, and
Speaker 2: that's when he decides, well it's over then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, which is really cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's such a great thing to like,
Speaker 3: I mean, he will read out the letter to Billy
Speaker 3: that like, he will traumatize really to an extent. But
Speaker 3: that's where he draws a line. You can't put him
Speaker 3: on this.
Speaker 1: He can only the kid's head so much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, he's dropped him. He's read the letter out,
Speaker 3: but he's not going to put him on the stand.
Speaker 2: So you never had to make did you ever made?
Speaker 2: Because I like that we don't see Billy have to
Speaker 2: make that choice. He's eight years old. I can't because
Speaker 2: that would have been an emotional scene. So you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you can imagine the scene where Ted saying, who do
Speaker 2: you want to Yeah, yeah, yeah, don't you want to.
Speaker 3: Be Well, look, my experiences of divorce, Pete, is that, like,
Speaker 3: you don't especial because I was young. I was no,
Speaker 3: I was probably like ten maybe okay old Billy, older
Speaker 3: than Billy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're flushing.
Speaker 3: I was flushing and I wasn't falling a playground aguipment,
Speaker 3: that's for sure. But I have vague memories of it.
Speaker 3: But it's like it is all it's quite separate to you,
Speaker 3: unless like there's horrible things going on, like you know,
Speaker 3: restic violence or something like that, but it was all
Speaker 3: very separate from me. And it's like and I feel
Speaker 3: I like that in this film as well, Yeah, that
Speaker 3: it is separate from Bill, Like obviously he knows his
Speaker 3: parents aren't together anymore, but it's not like he's not
Speaker 3: involved in this in fighting and he's not getting dragged
Speaker 3: into the courtroom or like you know, going for one side.
Speaker 3: He's just kind of a bystander, which I do think
Speaker 3: is maybe you know, a more accurate like perception of
Speaker 3: what a divorce kind of looks like for the kids.
Speaker 3: I'm only speaking from my like, yeah, what I went through,
Speaker 3: but I mean and it wasn't traumatic at all, Like,
Speaker 3: but yeah, I think I like that that, you know,
Speaker 3: And he didn't want to put Billy on the stand,
Speaker 3: and Billy didn't have to make a choice. He didn't
Speaker 3: have to sit there. They weren't sitting down being like,
Speaker 3: we love you a lot, who do you want to
Speaker 3: live with? Because that's crazy to ask a kid to
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they make some really good choices in
Speaker 2: this movie where they could have really amped up the drama.
Speaker 1: But they didn't have to.
Speaker 3: They didn't at all.
Speaker 2: And it's a good lesson for any screenwriters. But so
Speaker 2: then the French toast scene play, it plays out and
Speaker 2: it's beautiful. This is what we call a callback in comedy.
Speaker 2: We would call it a callback absolutely, and it works.
Speaker 2: So the mannicness of you know, the day one of
Speaker 2: their journey. Yes, and he's there's this little touches like
Speaker 2: at the start he's putting, he's dipping the bread in
Speaker 2: a cup.
Speaker 1: He's got the egg and the milk and to break
Speaker 1: he's got to break the bread. And now he's worked.
Speaker 1: You do it in the bowl, of course, you get
Speaker 1: a bowl, and that's how.
Speaker 2: You make your friend's toast and it's calm, it's serene,
Speaker 2: and it's it's it's a it's a beautiful scene.
Speaker 3: It's great, and it just you know, it shows just
Speaker 3: how far in the simplest way, it shows a full
Speaker 3: kind of progression and change and that it's like a
Speaker 3: new person and a new relationship and a comfort, comforting
Speaker 3: kind of message that things are okay. But they did
Speaker 3: it in such a simple, such a simple way.
Speaker 2: And the and the and the look on Billy's face,
Speaker 2: justin Henry, it's it's an incredible for me. If you
Speaker 2: watch it again, let's check out the look before it
Speaker 2: when they give them it's a look of like it's
Speaker 2: almost melancholy. It's like, yeah, I'm I'm enjoying this moment,
Speaker 2: but I realized that this is the last time we're
Speaker 2: going to make French toast.
Speaker 1: That's like the that's the vibe.
Speaker 3: Melancholy is like the vibe of the whole film. Like
Speaker 3: I watch it and I feel that, like I don't
Speaker 3: feel sad in all the places, but I feel this
Speaker 3: will weight on me and I'm enjoying it, but it's
Speaker 3: this weight and that's like the underselling of the drama
Speaker 3: as well, Like they don't beef up any scenes, and
Speaker 3: that almost makes it more melancholy because it's so real,
Speaker 3: because in real life you don't have the big dramatic
Speaker 3: kind of moments and fights and like everything is like
Speaker 3: overly produced. It's just real and what's happened. And I
Speaker 3: think that is why this is actually so dramatic and
Speaker 3: tugs on the heartstrings more and is more melancholy because
Speaker 3: it is so just real and undersold.
Speaker 1: And there's one last twist.
Speaker 2: When they're waiting for Joanna to arrive to take Billy home,
Speaker 2: they're packed. It gets a call and as Johanna danstairs,
Speaker 2: asking him to come down to the for you.
Speaker 3: What woke up this morning?
Speaker 9: I kept thinking about Billy and I was thinking about
Speaker 9: him waking up in his room. And there's little clouds
Speaker 9: all around that I painted, and I thought I should
Speaker 9: have painted clouds downtown because.
Speaker 1: You would think that he was waking up at home.
Speaker 9: I came here to take my son home, and I
Speaker 9: realized he already is home.
Speaker 1: Okay, lots of good stuff face.
Speaker 2: It's good to the all time breaks in absolute white
Speaker 2: hot form, and and then you have there's another little callback.
Speaker 1: Here is the elevator. Oh yeah, So we see the elevator.
Speaker 2: In the first scene where they were she walks out
Speaker 2: and she says, I don't love you as the elevator
Speaker 2: closes on him, and this time.
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep says Joanna says, how do I look.
Speaker 2: She's trying to getting the tears and adjusting her makeup
Speaker 2: and he says I think he says, you look terrific.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He says something like, yeah, is it look terrific?
Speaker 1: You look terrific? Yeah, and then the elevator closes on Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's a great it's a great end to the film.
Speaker 3: Like it's because I.
Speaker 1: Was wondering, how are they gonna stick this landing.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a hard thing to do, and it almost
Speaker 3: you know, makes everything completely you know, like it's like
Speaker 3: what was it all worth? Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: But it shows that it's like for her to get
Speaker 3: to that position to be content, they had to go
Speaker 3: through all that kind of trauma and heartbreak and for
Speaker 3: her to get into the position the mindset where she
Speaker 3: is okay for Billy to live with her dad, they
Speaker 3: had to go through all of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do wonder what it does say what we're
Speaker 2: expected to take out of the fact that Johanna comes
Speaker 2: to this conclusion, is it saying I'm still not ready.
Speaker 3: Well, no, I think it just shows. I think it
Speaker 3: shows that they are both I might be wrong here,
Speaker 3: but they both care about their son so much, and
Speaker 3: they both love their son, and they don't hate each other. Like,
Speaker 3: it's not like she has no vendetta against him, do
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? She just doesn't want to
Speaker 3: be in a relationship with him, and she wants to
Speaker 3: see her son, and she's like, oh, that's the best
Speaker 3: place for him right now. It's like a very mature response.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's a good reason.
Speaker 3: I think if it was twenty twenty two, she would
Speaker 3: have done that speech over text message though I realized
Speaker 3: he is home, so I'm going to leave him with you,
Speaker 3: Like it would have been a quick test being like, hey,
Speaker 3: let's forget about it.
Speaker 1: You hold onto him with an embarrassing emoji.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, we'd like the emerging with your hands
Speaker 3: over your eyes.
Speaker 1: I guess that cour case was for nothing.
Speaker 2: Justin Henry goes on to big does a little bit
Speaker 2: of acting the only role that you may recognize.
Speaker 3: What did he end up going on to do acting?
Speaker 1: Here? And there? And then kind of like leave him.
Speaker 2: But he's in sixteen Candles, Molly World's younger brother in
Speaker 2: JHU's classic sixteen Candles, so you can see him there.
Speaker 3: But he's kind of tough for a child, you know,
Speaker 3: when you're it's like and so good.
Speaker 1: He's like he's peaked, yeah in his first film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and doesn't get to like get any of the benefits,
Speaker 3: like if you peak at twenty five, you're a movie star,
Speaker 3: you get to do all the cocaine people would to
Speaker 3: have sex with you.
Speaker 2: Apparently he that yeah, yeah, great, doesn't hop and took
Speaker 2: him under his wing. Imagine that going through a messy
Speaker 2: divorce and just hanging out with that year old coast artist.
Speaker 3: Coke. This is how you, This is how your special glass.
Speaker 2: Hollywood highest grossing movie in nineteen seventy nine. Have I
Speaker 2: mentioned that? No, these are the films that were released
Speaker 2: in nine and seventy nine. I mentioned I mentioned star
Speaker 2: tracking on but also just to add to that auck list,
Speaker 2: now Alien was released Mad Max.
Speaker 3: Alien Yeah ten? Are you kidding this?
Speaker 1: Mad ten?
Speaker 2: It was a massive like sex comedy with Bo Derek
Speaker 2: and more. Amitiyville Horror was actually the second highest grossing
Speaker 2: film that year, Life of Brian.
Speaker 1: Life came out.
Speaker 3: This is a hot year.
Speaker 1: It's a hot year being there Peter.
Speaker 2: Sellers, who he was nominated for that that was one
Speaker 2: of the Peter Sellers's like great performances. Manhattan, Woody Allen,
Speaker 2: Meryl Street was shooting that as you was shooting this.
Speaker 2: I think that's why that's why Joe left.
Speaker 3: Well she should have bought that up in the court
Speaker 3: proceeding was shooting work Woody Allen.
Speaker 1: Do you know Woody Allen?
Speaker 3: But I don't, actually don't seventy nights, so it's okay
Speaker 3: to no Woody Allen. At this point of Rocky.
Speaker 2: Two comes out that year. Nah, and Cramer versus Crame
Speaker 2: makes more money than Rocky two.
Speaker 3: That's insane. Also the amount that I said, well, I
Speaker 3: mean total it's made one seventy at the box office
Speaker 3: or whatever on whatever. It's tiny budget warts, that's a
Speaker 3: huge amount of money.
Speaker 11: Huge.
Speaker 1: The Mother movie came out that year, or that The Champ,
Speaker 1: the tear Jerk of the Champ with Rookie Schroeder.
Speaker 3: I want to live in nineteen seventy a year to
Speaker 3: go to the movies.
Speaker 2: Roger Benton also wrote Bonnie and Clyde and the Superman
Speaker 2: Original Superman.
Speaker 1: Move Jesus Great.
Speaker 2: He went on to direct Still of the Night Places
Speaker 2: in the Heart Billy Barthgate with dusn't hoff and Nicole Kim.
Speaker 2: That wasn't a big hit, that one, Nobody's Full with
Speaker 2: Paul Newman and Twilight Right for starring Paul Newman and
Speaker 2: Susan surrounding Gene Hackman.
Speaker 1: You know that one. Haven't covered that one in the
Speaker 1: It hasn't come up hot year for Best Actor. Hoff
Speaker 1: And wins.
Speaker 2: Peter Seller's nominated for being there, Jack Lemon, This is
Speaker 2: a really hot category, Jack Lemon, the China syndrome, Roy Scheider,
Speaker 2: who a lot of people thought Mate not ripped off.
Speaker 2: It was probably the next in line for all that
Speaker 2: Jazz doesn't. Hoffen wins for Crome versus Cream and Alpacino
Speaker 2: Oh for a movie called and Justice for All, which.
Speaker 1: I must say I have not seen.
Speaker 3: Really dipping into, like, you know, a cultural point in history.
Speaker 3: This yeah, do you know what I mean? It's like,
Speaker 3: this is a point you look back on and this
Speaker 3: is this changes film, you know.
Speaker 2: Absolutely yeah? And this podcast will change podcasts of course.
Speaker 2: Is the episode I watched Ustin Hoffin's speech. It's actually
Speaker 2: a good speech. Oh really, Yeah, he gives a good speech.
Speaker 2: He thinks he mentions the idea that I refuse to
Speaker 2: believe that. You know that Peter Seller's lost tonight or that,
Speaker 2: and that's good, you know, I.
Speaker 1: Like it good.
Speaker 3: It's like when I watched two boxes fight and they
Speaker 3: hug at the end and say they respect the other person. Yeah,
Speaker 3: actually makes me so happy.
Speaker 2: And and weirdly, Will Smith got up and smacks him. Really,
Speaker 2: I'm surprised that has not been mentioned for years.
Speaker 1: Doing it for years.
Speaker 3: You can't trust it.
Speaker 2: You can't trust him. Apparently the ice cream scene was improvised.
Speaker 2: It's not a little fun factors. Yeah, I was improvised.
Speaker 1: Mate.
Speaker 2: This podcast comes with homework and you are you are
Speaker 2: killing it at the Melbourne International Comedy Festival.
Speaker 1: I mentioned in the intro. You'll be true. You'll be
Speaker 1: cheering around check check check your Instagram page.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I ll just type my name into Google.
Speaker 1: It's it's when people say links. It's just is Google.
Speaker 3: Just write my name into Google and come.
Speaker 1: Alive, and you'll be passing through towns and cities with
Speaker 1: yoyo diablo.
Speaker 3: That's it my new hour show. Please come a little.
Speaker 2: Smashing it rave reviews and to watch Kramer Versus Cramer
Speaker 2: as you're heading to the final week and the moment
Speaker 2: International Comedy Festival is a Lucian effort.
Speaker 3: You don't understand how I was. Just I had in
Speaker 3: bed holding a lap I didn't even watch it on
Speaker 3: a TV screen. I shut the I'm staying with my friends,
Speaker 3: so I shut the door, just watching it on a laptop,
Speaker 3: just in a world of pain, just being like, if
Speaker 3: it wasn't Peter Hellier, there's.
Speaker 1: No Well, mate, I appreciate it. Let's go get some munch.
Speaker 3: Yeah, love it. Thanks being.
Speaker 1: That was fun.
Speaker 2: I love watching Kramer Versus Kramer. Like I mentioned to Sam,
Speaker 2: I'd watched it half it when I was younger. I
Speaker 2: couldn't quite get my claws into it because I just
Speaker 2: couldn't relate to that adult subject matter when I watched it,
Speaker 2: and all the ads, bloody ads.
Speaker 1: But really, such a brilliant movie and so fascinating.
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with the fact that it was the highest
Speaker 2: grossing movie of nineteen seventy nine. Every time, and I
Speaker 2: do thank the guests, obviously in front of them, you
Speaker 2: hear that, but again a shout out to Sam who
Speaker 2: you know in the closing moments of the Melbourne International
Speaker 2: Film Festival, which has been a massive festival this year
Speaker 2: in terms of just getting through it. To be honest,
Speaker 2: there's been various COVID outbreaks, comedians canceling shows, audiences sometimes
Speaker 2: having the canceled being at shows.
Speaker 1: So for Sam to find some.
Speaker 2: Time the watch Cremer Vesu Creamer, an emotional movie was
Speaker 2: just above and beyond. So if you get a chance
Speaker 2: to support Sam's following him on Instagram or Twitter or
Speaker 2: seeing him live more so, please do so. He's a
Speaker 2: great guy. I really enjoyed hanging out with him. Derek
Speaker 2: Meyers is the man behind Castaways Studios, where we record
Speaker 2: you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet in Collingwood, a stone's throw
Speaker 2: away from the coolest street in the World, as nominated
Speaker 2: by Time Out Magazine, Smith Street.
Speaker 1: Derek, you are the man who puts this together. Have
Speaker 1: you watched Crama Versus Kramer?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I it came out when I was a kid. Yeah,
Speaker 4: like a lot of people, and it didn't Yeah, like you,
Speaker 4: it didn't kind of make any sense to me at all.
Speaker 4: There was no real point and eventually I would have
Speaker 4: just seen it as my parents watched it and stuff
Speaker 4: like that. Yeah, so there's no divorcing, and I mean
Speaker 4: it means a lot more.
Speaker 1: Now, Well, you can watch it when you're older.
Speaker 2: You can watch it three even if you haven't, I
Speaker 2: must say, thankfully in touch wood, I have not been,
Speaker 2: at this stage in my life touched a whole lot
Speaker 2: by divorce. There hasn't been a lot of divorce around me.
Speaker 2: My siblings are all married, my parents are still married,
Speaker 2: my in laws are married. There's been no divorce. Actually
Speaker 2: there has been, sorry, but long ago before I was
Speaker 2: on the scene on my wife's side. All my friends,
Speaker 2: miraculously are still married. It has been a divorce between them.
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's one ahead of us somewhere. But you
Speaker 2: can watch it through the prism of your own relationships.
Speaker 2: If you've got kids, what that must be like the
Speaker 2: little billy. So Yeah, the older you get, in the
Speaker 2: all life experience you get, there's certainly ways for it
Speaker 2: to get hooks into you, no doubt.
Speaker 4: Quite often you hear when your friends, like a few
Speaker 4: people I know, have gone through real ugly custody stuff,
Speaker 4: and you only hear about like there's probably ten times
Speaker 4: as many people you know who've been through amicable custody stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 4: where they've done, you know, back down or done what's
Speaker 4: best for the kid or whatever. So you kind of
Speaker 4: get a weird, twisted notion of that. It's an evil sort.
Speaker 1: Of Yeah, and that's what I really loved about this film.
Speaker 2: And I think what kind of saying is even when
Speaker 2: two sides are acting, you know, with good faith, it's
Speaker 2: really hard.
Speaker 1: It's really emotionally exhausting.
Speaker 4: It took the world by storm, just that, just throwing
Speaker 4: that notion up. Yeah, in the middle of like this
Speaker 4: huge year for film.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of all the films we've watched that you know, say,
Speaker 2: more than thirty years old, and this is over forty
Speaker 2: years old.
Speaker 1: Now, I feel like this is one of the films
Speaker 1: that has aged as well as any of them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it is it is the rhetoric like cram
Speaker 4: versus Kramer is. Yeah, just means that, it means the
Speaker 4: custody battle, like it's like a brevel or a hoover
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it's Crame is a great name for it,
Speaker 2: even though when you google it you get a whole
Speaker 2: lot of Michael Richards stuff. It had it been Slensky
Speaker 2: versus Shlensky, you know, like it doesn't have the same
Speaker 2: it's got I'm not sure how they came up with
Speaker 2: those names and how much thought you know, to get
Speaker 2: the right name, and when the title came was it
Speaker 2: an afterthought or was it always creame versus Kramer?
Speaker 1: But yeah, a good title.
Speaker 2: If you're listening to the podcast and we want to
Speaker 2: thank everyone for your support, you can please follow and subscribe.
Speaker 2: You can leave a comment on the iTunes page just
Speaker 2: whenever you get a answers to tell your mates about it.
Speaker 2: It all, it all works, It all helps us give
Speaker 2: us a five star rating on the iTunes page.
Speaker 1: It all helps.
Speaker 2: It also just keeps the algorithm in our favor and
Speaker 2: just spreads the podcast to people far and why. You
Speaker 2: can also email us at yasny podcast at gmail dot
Speaker 2: com and you can be sharing thoughts about episodes, answering
Speaker 2: any questions we put out your own thoughts about episodes,
Speaker 2: and another way you could also contact this which is
Speaker 2: I think a more fun way is through this speak pipe,
Speaker 2: which is like an answering MA sheme message. I've got
Speaker 2: my head around it now, Derek you basically followed the link.
Speaker 2: We get the podcasts, and you'll find the link that
Speaker 2: says speak pipe. Click on that and it's like a yeah,
Speaker 2: just leave a message, and I believe somebody has done that,
Speaker 2: and we've got so we're gonna have a speak pipe
Speaker 2: and we're gonna have also an email. We're gonna get
Speaker 2: both old fashioned and new fashioned. We've got an email
Speaker 2: from Emily.
Speaker 1: I believe there.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's a nice one from Emily and it goes
Speaker 4: like this, Hi, Pete, just dropping a line to say,
Speaker 4: I'm so grateful for this podcast. You and your guests
Speaker 4: have some great insights. I love learning the reasons behind
Speaker 4: why other people love particular movies, stories, and characters. You're
Speaker 4: clearly a very informed movie lover, and your approach is
Speaker 4: a unique, refreshing and entertaining, unlike some screenwriting classes I've
Speaker 4: taken in books i've read. Keep up the good work. Cheers, Emily.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Emily, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: You know this podcast it's really just about, well, want
Speaker 2: to get the chance to watch movies that I either
Speaker 2: love or I've seen many times, sometimes movies I haven't seen.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I just note things that I think are interesting
Speaker 2: For anyone interested in screenwriting, whether to actually do screenwriting
Speaker 2: or just how movies up put together. I appreciate that
Speaker 2: you have noted that I'm certainly not trying to make
Speaker 2: this a how to write a screenplay on a pot,
Speaker 2: but this little things that I find interesting I like
Speaker 2: to pass on if you are interested in screenwriting. The
Speaker 2: podcast that I'll absolutely be listening to is called script
Speaker 2: Notes by Craig Mason and John August. It's a fantastic
Speaker 2: service those two gentlemen are providing screen lovers. It's a
Speaker 2: real masterclass. So but thank you Emily for your email.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast. And now we go
Speaker 2: to a speak pipe message.
Speaker 4: I believe Derek, yes, use to speak pipe if you
Speaker 4: want to avoid having me playing the part of you
Speaker 4: in your emails.
Speaker 1: I gotta say you sound nothing like Emily.
Speaker 2: I've never met Emily, but in Emily's Emily, if you're listening,
Speaker 2: that wasn't an impression of you. That was this Derek
Speaker 2: being Derek and reading the words that you sent. But
Speaker 2: it's a very good point. If you want to actually
Speaker 2: hear yourself on this podcast, do what this lady did.
Speaker 11: Then here we go Hey guys, my name's Ash. I
Speaker 11: just wanted to say thank you for such a great podcast.
Speaker 11: I love listening to it on the way to and
Speaker 11: from work, hoping that you might be able to aim
Speaker 11: for Kira Knightley's Atonement sometime soon. It always gets me.
Speaker 11: It's a great movie. It's got that twist at the end. Anyway,
Speaker 11: thanks for everything.
Speaker 2: Babe, Thank you Ashley. Yeah, a Tonement, I'm not I
Speaker 2: have to see you for Atonements on the list. So
Speaker 2: Joe Wright directed that I Reckon about fifteen odd years ago.
Speaker 2: Perhaps I read the book. The book was Ian McEwen.
Speaker 2: It's great book, great author, Ian McEwen. Yeah, Kieran Knightley
Speaker 2: and James McAvoy are in that. So okay, I'll put
Speaker 2: a Tonement on the list if it isn't on already.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it works as a classic.
Speaker 2: It's a period piece that always helps. But yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: I'll put a Tomement on. But thank you so much
Speaker 2: for your comments and for jumping on the speak pipe. Ash,
Speaker 2: I really appreciate that. Really glad that you're enjoying it.
Speaker 2: And yeah, we've got plenty more episodes to come this season.
Speaker 2: Season FOURR of you ain't saying nothing yet, And next
Speaker 2: week speaking of Adam Richard is in the house, And
Speaker 2: so we leave Old
Speaker 3: Pete save Fan Sut and to our friends of the
Speaker 3: radio audience, we've been a pleasant good night