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Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda's.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've heard in recent days that Martin Bascher, who

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Speaker 2: did that incredible palace door blowing off interview with Princess

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Speaker 2: Diana over twenty years ago. You do remember the interview,

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Speaker 2: don't you know? This is where Diana said there are

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Speaker 2: three in our marriage. She's the first royal to speak

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Speaker 2: so openly about how unhappy she'd been and really what

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Speaker 2: it was like to be a member of the royal family,

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Speaker 2: and how she was unhappy and.

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Speaker 1: Terrified she was doing Harry before Harry.

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Speaker 2: Well, yes, that's right. Well we now know it's only

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Speaker 2: just come to light and the BBC has admitted this

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Speaker 2: that Martin Bisher got that interview under false pretenses. He

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Speaker 2: showed false receipts to Diana to claim that other members

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Speaker 2: of the royal family or her security detail people around

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Speaker 2: her were being paid to monitor her and to maybe

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Speaker 2: sell her secrets, maybe to speak out. So she was

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Speaker 2: in a heightened state of paranoia.

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Speaker 1: And.

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Speaker 2: Both her sons have spoken out about how this obviously

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Speaker 2: has made them feel. We had Prince William saying that

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Speaker 2: the BBC's failure has contributed significantly to her fear, her

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Speaker 2: paranoia and her isolation that I remember from those final

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Speaker 2: years with her. Hard hard stuff, isn't it. And Harry

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Speaker 2: has spoken out about how hard those years were. He's

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Speaker 2: just a snippet of what he said.

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Speaker 1: But unfortunately, when I think about my mum, the first

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Speaker 1: thing that comes to mind is always the same one

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Speaker 1: over and over again, struts in the car, seatbelt across

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Speaker 1: with my brother and the car as well, and my

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Speaker 1: mother driving and being chased by three four five mopas

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Speaker 1: with paparazziong and then she was almost unable to drive

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Speaker 1: because of the tears. There was no protection.

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Speaker 2: He said he felt powerless as a young boy to

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Speaker 2: help his mum would have been terrible, terrible. And I've

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Speaker 2: been a bit critical of Harry speaking out about his family.

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Speaker 2: He has said in recent days on a podcast that

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Speaker 2: the way he was parented from by his father was terrible,

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Speaker 2: and the way his father was parented didn't name people,

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Speaker 2: but presumably Queen and Prince Philip was terrible, and people

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Speaker 2: have lashed him because of this. But I've had a

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Speaker 2: bit of a change of heart. I've got a new

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Speaker 2: new empathy for Harry. I read an article by this

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Speaker 2: fantastic journalist called Marina Hyde and the Guardian in England,

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Speaker 2: and she said, here she's talking about how we've rewritten

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Speaker 2: our own history about Diana, and how absurd it is

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Speaker 2: and how hypocritical for Fleet Street, the newspapers and the

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Speaker 2: magazines to be moralizing and to blame the BBC. She said,

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Speaker 2: Fleet Street know very well the terrible things they and

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Speaker 2: others did on countless occasions to get stories relating to

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Speaker 2: Diana or her wider family. Defund the BBC was last

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Speaker 2: night's pontification from former Son editor who once put Diana's

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Speaker 2: covertly recorded private phone calls on a premium rate line

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Speaker 2: so readers could ring in and have a listen. The

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Speaker 2: tabloids made not like Prince Harry's reincarnation as a super

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Speaker 2: rich Californian wellness bore. But it does have the moral

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Speaker 2: edge of a pulling people's medical records and hacking the

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Speaker 2: phones of murdered thirteen year old girls, she said. But

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Speaker 2: of course few have rewritten their own history more than

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Speaker 2: Fleet Streets Diana Watches. She goes on to say that

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Speaker 2: when the Paris crash happened, when Diana was killed, already

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Speaker 2: the early editions of the Sunday Papers had been released

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Speaker 2: and in those papers that same morning that Diana's death

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Speaker 2: was being announced, the papers were saying, troubled Prince William

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Speaker 2: will today demand his mother dump her playboy lover. The Princess,

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Speaker 2: I fear said the Sunday Mirror suffers from the open

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Speaker 2: God before brain engages syndrome, a condition which afflicts the

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Speaker 2: trivial and the brain dead. So these were the headlines

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Speaker 2: the morning Diana is passing away.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And then this journalist, Marina Hyde goes on to say,

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Speaker 2: twenty four years later, a full spectrum failure to acknowledge

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Speaker 2: any of this means that many of these same people

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Speaker 2: sit and now venerate Diana and slag off her troubled son,

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Speaker 2: Prince Harry. They know very well the pain and turmoil

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Speaker 2: of Diana's final years, having been such a helpful part

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Speaker 2: of it, yet they can't tolerate the understandably damaged child

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Speaker 2: raised amidst it. And she goes on to say attacks

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Speaker 2: on Harry do great business, so they continue. He in

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Speaker 2: turn points to these attacks as continued evidence of persecution,

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Speaker 2: and this toxic cycle continues again. She said, and I

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Speaker 2: think we've seen this footage too, that once the Queen

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Speaker 2: and Prince Philip returned home from a royal tour, leaving

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Speaker 2: their children for six months, Prince Charles a mere part

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Speaker 2: of the welcome party. An unsmiling five year old waits

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Speaker 2: dutifully simply required to shake his mother's hand. Anyone claiming

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Speaker 2: that this was normal in those days behavior has royal brainworms,

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Speaker 2: she said. Yet Harry's recent suggestion that neither he nor

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Speaker 2: his father had an especially healthy childhood is regarded as

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Speaker 2: sometime kind of grotesque blasphemy, mostly by people who would

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Speaker 2: be quite happy to refer to the above vignette as

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Speaker 2: child abuse were it not the Queen who was involved.

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Speaker 2: And the daily male fuming that Prince Harry, how dare

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Speaker 2: he bring his mother into this? His own, his own story,

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Speaker 2: And she says, and this is the thing that brings

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Speaker 2: us all up short, which brings us to the final

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Speaker 2: group not to own their actions, she says, the great

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Speaker 2: British public. But it's all of us, millions brought insatiably

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Speaker 2: into Diana's pain, a newspaper sales spiked for all of

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Speaker 2: the most obviously intrusive stories. The pall of blameness sanctimony

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Speaker 2: that descended after her death was an exercise in mass

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Speaker 2: hypocrisy from Diana to Harry. Damaged people do damaged and

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Speaker 2: sometimes damaging things. But it's important to remember as far

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Speaker 2: as the royal family is concerned that the public likes

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Speaker 2: it that way, Royal pain sells more than Royal happiness.

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Speaker 2: Panorama and the BBC may have lied, but the sales

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Speaker 2: tallies and the ratings never do, so we're all complicit.

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Speaker 2: We have candy coated and whitewashed what we did to her,

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Speaker 2: and this is such a reminder of how it was,

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Speaker 2: and now we're doing the same thing to her son,

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Speaker 2: who was destroyed by those actions. I mean, it's just

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Speaker 2: the saddest of story one begets the out it does,

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Speaker 2: so a bit of empathy and a bit of sympathy

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Speaker 2: all round, I think as all the royals and those

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Speaker 2: sons navigate their way through this, just read those women's

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Speaker 2: magazines for the Apricot Chicken and do the crosswords.

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Speaker 1: Jonesy and Amanda's Damnation