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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: wants answers.

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Speaker 1: Now, Hey, well Kylie, it's been so are you right

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Speaker 1: just not having the figurines right as we start the podcast?

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Speaker 1: That's great. I really like that statue as well. It's

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Speaker 1: a statue of a man holding what those willow tree

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Speaker 1: statues from a couple of decades ago when they were

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Speaker 1: all the rage. You've just knocked up my willow tree

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Speaker 1: of a dad holding a brand new baby in his lap.

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Speaker 2: Can I just ask why it's on my desk.

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Speaker 1: Because my desk is too cluttered and but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: excuse you knocking my stuff over. Let's try that again.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Family Podcast. It's been a while

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Speaker 1: since we've done this one, a couple of months. In fact,

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Speaker 1: of all the podcasts that we do, this is the

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Speaker 1: one that I really enjoy, probably the most, and it

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with parenting, so I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that says. This is our book club podcast.

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Speaker 2: Everybody needs to have a break pressure, yes, and time

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Speaker 2: to rejuvenate.

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Speaker 1: This is our opportunity to tell you the stuff we've

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Speaker 1: been reading so that either you can go out and

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Speaker 1: buy it because it's brilliant, or you can save your

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Speaker 1: money and save your time and invest in something else

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Speaker 1: as well. So, Kyle, it's been a couple of months,

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Speaker 1: which tells me that we've both got a whole bunch

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Speaker 1: of books to reveal and discuss. How many books have

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Speaker 1: you read in the last two months?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Look, I would love to say that I have

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Speaker 2: done a lot of reading over the last few months.

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Speaker 1: Yees as, since you hesitated there, I just thought seven

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Speaker 1: seasons of House.

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Speaker 2: I can't believe that you're putting shade on me.

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Speaker 1: Seven seas.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps may have something to do with it, but I

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Speaker 2: am going to suggest that homeschooling has completely and utterly

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Speaker 2: changed my whole life.

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Speaker 1: You've been saying homeschool is the reason for you not

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Speaker 1: doing everything. Homeschooling has engulfed the world and house and

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Speaker 1: house is built in whatever spaces you had.

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Speaker 2: Let's just see how things go when you have a

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Speaker 2: shadow following you all day every day. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 2: tell me how it goes.

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Speaker 1: Let's dive in a book club. How many books are

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Speaker 1: you going to review? Since you've read a whopping what

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Speaker 1: did you say?

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Speaker 2: Two?

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Speaker 1: Three, three?

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Speaker 2: I've read three?

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Speaker 1: Okay, how many are we going over today.

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Speaker 2: We're just going to talk about two today.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's hit it.

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Speaker 2: The third book was a heavily religious book, okay, and

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Speaker 2: I just don't feel like it's pertinent to everybody.

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Speaker 1: Book number one, Book.

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Speaker 2: Number one, I read one of our daughter's novels.

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Speaker 1: I was doing so you reading A Kid's a Youth.

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Speaker 2: It definitely was a junior fiction, but it was on

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Speaker 2: a really really heavy topic. It was actually on high

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Speaker 2: school shooting.

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Speaker 1: Oh oh wow.

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Speaker 2: It was intense. It actually was really intense.

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Speaker 1: What's a book called?

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Speaker 2: The book is called this is where it ends.

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Speaker 1: That sounds devastating.

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Speaker 2: It's by an author's name I wish I could pronounce,

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Speaker 2: but I'm not even going to try. Okay, but this

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Speaker 2: is where it ends. It's told by four youth's perspectives,

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Speaker 2: so four different youths that are all interconnected storylines. But

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Speaker 2: it's literally written over forty five minutes, so a whole

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Speaker 2: novel about the most impactful forty five minutes of these kids' life.

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Speaker 1: I can feel my heart pounding. I'm I'm just a thing.

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Speaker 1: What forty five minutes would be? I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I could. I don't know if I could stomach the book.

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Speaker 1: Quite honestly, how lucky are we that we live in Australia.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, that's the one take home I

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Speaker 2: took from it. You saying that just reminds me of

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Speaker 2: how grateful I was as I was reading it, thinking

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Speaker 2: about the experiences that other children are going through throughout

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Speaker 2: the world, and recognizing that because of some really really

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Speaker 2: important political decisions that are being made in our country,

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Speaker 2: our children will not experience the devastation that so many do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Nineteen ninety six, following Port Arthur John Howard's decision,

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Speaker 1: deeply unpopular with his own party, deeply unpopular with people

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Speaker 1: on that conservative side of politics, But what a difference

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Speaker 1: it's made in this country. I remember as a kid

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Speaker 1: growing up in the eighties there were stories of mass

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Speaker 1: shootings from time to time. There was one on the

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Speaker 1: New South Wales Central Coast on Barnhill Road, Intrograle, just

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Speaker 1: around the count from where I grew up, where that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing happened, and our children grew up in

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Speaker 1: a world where it doesn't, So reading it must have been,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, haunting, terrifying to know that you're sending

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Speaker 1: your kids to school in a place where somebody has guns.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got goosewamps. As we've talked about, it was

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Speaker 2: it was a really it was a really challenging read.

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Speaker 2: But Ibert but she did a really good job of

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Speaker 2: it and again just seeing all of the different perspectives

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Speaker 2: and the whole reason she wrote the novel was to

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Speaker 2: highlight just how important it is to keep our kids

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Speaker 2: safe and the change that takes place. So as we

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Speaker 2: speak up about this.

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Speaker 1: This book is called this is where it ends. It's

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Speaker 1: a youth fiction novel. What he rated out of five, I'm.

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Speaker 2: Going to give it a four point five. It was

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Speaker 2: really well done.

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Speaker 1: Sounds compelling. Book number two, Kylie, a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Different, but I did say homeschool has changed my entire life.

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Speaker 2: Book number two is actually Charlotte's Ware by Ebie White.

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Speaker 1: So you so this further emphasizes you didn't read this

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Speaker 1: book for you. You read this book because you had

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Speaker 1: to read it for homeschool with Emily. I did. I did,

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Speaker 1: Like I said, how seven seasons.

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Speaker 2: Look, I've been really open about the fact that I

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Speaker 2: have a real love hate relationship with books, and it

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Speaker 2: really comes down to headspace and I have not had

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Speaker 2: a lot of headspace since school's gone back. I find

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Speaker 2: when I get to that place that TV becomes a

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Speaker 2: nice escape instead of books.

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Speaker 1: I have a favorite quote by eb White. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I've ever shared this one with you before,

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Speaker 1: but Eb White said, I arise in the morning torn

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Speaker 1: between a desire to improve the world and a desire

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Speaker 1: to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan

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Speaker 1: the day. And I just resonate so much with that.

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Speaker 1: So Charlotte's Webb, I mean, everybody's heard of it. How'd

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Speaker 1: you find it? Reading it as an adult to a

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Speaker 1: ten year old? What was your experience?

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Speaker 2: So she did not want to read it. She was

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Speaker 2: really adamant. She did not want to participate in it,

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Speaker 2: and so it started off very very slow. We got

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Speaker 2: to really sad parts. Charlotte obviously dies in it, and

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Speaker 2: I expected, because she is such an a mode of kid,

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Speaker 2: I expected that it would impact her, and it did.

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Speaker 2: But can I tell you, it wasn't until we actually

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Speaker 2: sat down and watched the movie together. We were sitting

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Speaker 2: there and she didn't move, she was completely engrossed. And

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Speaker 2: when that moment came, Holly smokes those big tears streaming

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Speaker 2: down her face. She just sobbed her little heart out,

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Speaker 2: and it just so for me. This isn't really much

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Speaker 2: a review on the book. It's just an acknowledgment that

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Speaker 2: our kids push back all the time about things that

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Speaker 2: they don't want to do, things that they're not interested in,

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Speaker 2: and yet when we take the time to just sit

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Speaker 2: with them, we pique their interest and once they're hooked,

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Speaker 2: it just it changes them.

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Speaker 1: Do I need to ask for a rating out of

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Speaker 1: five for a classic like Shotts.

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Speaker 2: Web I don't think that's really fair.

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Speaker 1: Need to try gently about you.

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Speaker 2: It's so well ridden, it's so beautifully depicted, and the

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Speaker 2: characters just come to life so beautifully. It's done such

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Speaker 2: an amazing job with it, and you can tell why

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Speaker 2: it's a classic. But I think what I love about

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Speaker 2: this is it touches on some really really big life lessons.

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Speaker 2: These are hard, hard experiences for kids. The idea that

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Speaker 2: you will lose somebody that you love is done so gently,

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Speaker 2: so beautifully, and an acknowledgment that this is the part

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Speaker 2: of you know, this is the circle of life, this

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Speaker 2: is how things happen, but that we're better off for

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Speaker 2: the experiences we've had together. It's just beautiful. E B.

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Speaker 1: White said, I would feel more optimistic about a bright

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Speaker 1: future for man if he spent less time proving that

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Speaker 1: he can outwhip nature and more time tasting her sweetness

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Speaker 1: and respecting her seniority. I love E. B. White, and

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Speaker 1: I love Charlotte Webs. So glad you read that, Kytlie.

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Speaker 1: I have three books to review for book Club today.

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Speaker 1: Are you ready for this? Because you know I can

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Speaker 1: never do one. Oh, we have to do all three.

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Speaker 1: And they're really big and they're really heavy, and I've

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Speaker 1: got to try and do it in record time.

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Speaker 2: Number one.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is the hardest one for me to review.

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Speaker 1: It's called Bad Therapy, Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up.

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Speaker 1: It's by Abigails Shreier. Abigail Shreyer shot to prominence a

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Speaker 1: few years ago when she wrote a book called Irreversible

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Speaker 1: Damage about the huge rise in adolescent girls identifying as

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Speaker 1: trans and wanting to go through all kinds of hormone's

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Speaker 1: presents and puberity blockers and even surgeries so that they

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Speaker 1: could live as trans boys. Much of what she said

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Speaker 1: was provocative then, and many people tried to cancel her.

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Speaker 1: Over time, she has been vindicated in a lot of areas.

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Speaker 1: I still don't like her tone, I don't like the

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Speaker 1: way that she did it, but it was an important

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Speaker 1: book and it was a brave book as well, especially

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Speaker 1: as we're watching what's happened with the cash report coming

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Speaker 1: out of the UK and what's happened with the Tavistock

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Speaker 1: Gender Clinic over there. So when I picked up Bad Therapy,

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Speaker 1: Why the Kids Aren't Drawing Up by Abigail Shreier, I

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Speaker 1: had very high expectations. Was a real disappointment. I would

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Speaker 1: not recommend it to anybody. I'd give it about a

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Speaker 1: three out of five, and that's being generous. It was

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Speaker 1: a book, honestly, I loved some parts of it, but

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Speaker 1: I also absolutely hated some parts of it. Shri makes

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Speaker 1: so many great points in this book. So she emphasizes

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Speaker 1: that kids don't need their parents to be therapists. She's

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Speaker 1: excellent at pointing out the mental health overreach across schools

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Speaker 1: and medical contexts and more. She points to the fact

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Speaker 1: that parenting is not a skill, it's a relationship, although

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Speaker 1: although I would add it's a relationship like all relationships,

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Speaker 1: that requires skill to navigate navigated adequately. She's accurately clear

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Speaker 1: that focusing too much on feelings leads to rumination and

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Speaker 1: depression and anxiety, and she rightly excoriates both Besil van

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Speaker 1: de Kolk and garble Marte for just outright quackery around

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Speaker 1: trauma and epigenetic intergenerational transmission of devastation. So I really

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Speaker 1: loved several areas of what she said, But unfortunately the

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Speaker 1: book is just with outright falsehoods and then carefully written

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Speaker 1: half truths, and for a non educated reader it would

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Speaker 1: be a dangerous book. It would take a really well

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Speaker 1: educated and discerning reader to pull out all the lies

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Speaker 1: and all the half elements and still make the books salvagable.

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Speaker 1: And as a result, for all I like about it,

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Speaker 1: I think the book is actually dangerous in the majority

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Speaker 1: of people's hands. And I don't think that Shreyer actually

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Speaker 1: knows the difference. Reading the book, she's either culpable of

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Speaker 1: misinformation and disinformation or she's naive in what she's written.

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Speaker 1: It feels like it's been put together hastily because she

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Speaker 1: had success with the last book. Ah Kylie. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to love this book, I really did, but I enjoyed

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Speaker 1: page after page of frustration as she talked about how

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Speaker 1: how good the old days were, and she railed on

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of parenting science without ever looking at

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Speaker 1: it in the science on which everything that I recommend

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Speaker 1: is based, probably because it wouldn't fit in her narrative.

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Speaker 1: So she's just ignored everything that I teach, everything that

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Speaker 1: self determination theory is about. She just hasn't gone near it. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say this book is an exercise in

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Speaker 1: frustration because the good bits really really are so good,

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Speaker 1: but you have to wade through so much monck to

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Speaker 1: fine them. That's Abigail Shrei a bad therapy. Why the

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Speaker 1: kids Aren't Growing Up?

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Speaker 2: Number two.

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Speaker 1: Book number two is a memoir. It's by a guy

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Speaker 1: called Rob Henderson. It's called Troubled. I'm giving this five.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to give the score straight away. This

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Speaker 1: I love a good memoir. In our last book club,

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Speaker 1: I talked about Jane Ferguson and her journalistic career going

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Speaker 1: through all these war zones, through Afghanistan and Syria and

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Speaker 1: the Middle East. This memoir is about a young man

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Speaker 1: who grew up in the foster care system in California

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Speaker 1: and his life was destined for destruction and many of

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Speaker 1: his friends ended up going exactly that way. It's a

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Speaker 1: compelling read. It's a warts and all autobiography. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it is hard to read. And he went through the

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Speaker 1: worst things as he grew up, just awful. Somehow he

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Speaker 1: lands on his feet in the military, but then he

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Speaker 1: ends up as an alcoholic and depressive, gets out of

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Speaker 1: the military and goes to university through a United States

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Speaker 1: sponsored bill to help gis get into university pathways, and

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Speaker 1: now he's at Cambridge in the UK finishing his PhD.

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Speaker 1: The guy is extraordinarily insightful. His background is compelling, and

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Speaker 1: essentially he makes the argument that you can talk about

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Speaker 1: diversity all you like, especially when it comes to family structure,

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Speaker 1: but what he really needed was mum and a dad

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Speaker 1: and not Oh gosh, I'm getting weepy thinking about it

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Speaker 1: not having that and looking at the research evidence around it.

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Speaker 1: As he's moved into a PhD in psychology, it's just

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Speaker 1: such a powerful requirement. I read a book that I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to talk about today called The Two Parent

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Speaker 1: Privilege by Melissa Kearney. Very provocative title. She's a PhD

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Speaker 1: economist in the US, has a whole lot of incredible

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Speaker 1: positions she's certainly not a conservative person. The evidence points

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Speaker 1: in that direction again. Rob Henderson's book Troubled, Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, buy this book and read it. It

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Speaker 1: is that good, such a great book.

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Speaker 2: A couple of weeks ago you shared a quote out

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Speaker 2: of his book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when we wrapped up, I'd do better tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Somebody asked him whether or not they should read to

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Speaker 2: their children, and his comment was, yes, definitely, read to

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Speaker 2: your children, but not because it's going to make them smarter,

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Speaker 2: not because it's going to give them an educational edge.

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Speaker 2: Read to them because I know you love them. That

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Speaker 2: really hit. It was just such a beautiful, beautiful moment.

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Speaker 1: And the whole book, as much as it goes through

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Speaker 1: the tragedy and the difficulty of this kid in his life.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, it's littered with insights like that. It's

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Speaker 1: just a profoundly good book. It's called Troubled. I give

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Speaker 1: it five stars. Rob Henderson, a memoir of foster care,

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Speaker 1: family and social class. I loved that book. There, right,

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Speaker 1: we'll hand it over, okay, all right. And the last

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Speaker 1: book that I want to mention, just briefly, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're we're kind of out of time, so I don't

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Speaker 1: have time to really get into it. So I need

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Speaker 1: to give this book more time than we have for it.

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Speaker 1: But it's called Time to Think. Time to Think by

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Speaker 1: Hannah Barnes, and Time to Think is basically it's a

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Speaker 1: book that is all about the inside story of what

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Speaker 1: happened when the Tavistock's Gender Service for Children collapsed in London,

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Speaker 1: what was going on in the processes in the twenty

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Speaker 1: years leading up to it, and how it got to

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Speaker 1: a point where a gender identity clinic had to close down.

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Speaker 1: This book has been written by a journalist who has

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Speaker 1: when I say she's done her research, I don't know

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Speaker 1: that I've ever read such a with such a provocative topic.

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Speaker 1: It has to be very, very careful. It is so compassionate,

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Speaker 1: It is so kind. There is not the slightest bit

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Speaker 1: of judgment to any child or young person who's going

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Speaker 1: through any gender identity issues. It is so generous and

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Speaker 1: gentle on anyone who might be having some kind of

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Speaker 1: genderice for it, or struggling with anything that relates to

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Speaker 1: living a trans life. It's beautiful from that perspective, so careful,

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Speaker 1: and yet it excoriates the process that was followed, and

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Speaker 1: the damage that has been done, and the absolute refusal

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Speaker 1: to engage with what limited research exists, and the refuse

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Speaker 1: that I ask important questions about how lives might be affected.

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Speaker 1: I oh, my goodness, is this is not an easy

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Speaker 1: book to read. I wouldn't recommend it to everybody at all,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's one of the books of the year.

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Speaker 1: It is such a good book. Hannah Barnes time to think.

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Speaker 1: I'm giving it seventy five out of five. It's that good.

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Speaker 1: It's so good.

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Speaker 2: Well, can I just say it's interesting? Usually I have

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Speaker 2: a list of about ten or twelve. You've only got

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Speaker 2: three books.

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Speaker 1: Well, well there were five, but I cut it down

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Speaker 1: to three because you, awys get cranky out me firstly,

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Speaker 1: but secondly, what have.

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Speaker 2: You been watching?

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Speaker 1: I haven't been watching, but I'm trying to write a

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Speaker 1: book about bringing up boys, trying to write a book

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Speaker 1: and read books. And also, these books have deserved attention.

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Speaker 1: These are not the kinds of books that you just

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Speaker 1: flip through. These have been the kinds of books that

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Speaker 1: you want to read carefully and soak in. And I

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Speaker 1: absolutely have time to think. Hannah Barnes. Troubled Rob Henderson

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Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant and Abogau Schrei's book. Even though I gave

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Speaker 1: it a low grade and I found it extremely frustrating,

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Speaker 1: it was also compelling and thought provoking, and it required

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Speaker 1: time and effort and thought and consideration. So yeah, short list,

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Speaker 1: we'll see what the next book club list looks like.

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Speaker 2: I'll just let you in only little secret.

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Speaker 1: How many seasons of house are they?

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Speaker 2: There's eight. I'm almost there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you'll have more books because you're almost given.

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Speaker 2: There'll definitely be another homeschool read.

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Speaker 1: I think I need to cancel Netflix as well. The

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Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Notes for all of

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Speaker 1: these books will be in our show notes. Enjoy your reading.

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Speaker 1: It's such a wonderful thing to do. It's so mind expanding.

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Speaker 1: We hope that these have been some helpful suggestions for you.

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Speaker 1: Have a wonderful day, and we'll talk to you again tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Lester