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Speaker 1: My Heart podcasts here, more Gold one on one point

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Speaker 1: seven podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Playlists and listen live on the free iHeart app.

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Speaker 3: And Amanda jam Nation.

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Speaker 1: Well, as we've been saying all morning, Australia is one

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Speaker 1: of the biggest exporters of gas in the world, but

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Speaker 1: compared to other countries, we're making next to no money

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Speaker 1: from it, and as consumers we're paying through the nose

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Speaker 1: for it. Who's making the money? What's going on. One

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Speaker 1: of the people who's spoken out about this is Independent

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Speaker 1: politician David Pocock, who joins us now.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, David, Morning, Dames and Amanda David.

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Speaker 2: When we say next to no money, when a matter

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Speaker 2: says that, is it actually next to no money?

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Speaker 3: Well, for offshore energy exports here in Australia, States and

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Speaker 3: territories can't levy a royalty on offshore orders and so

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Speaker 3: the Commonwealth government's the one who's meant to get money

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Speaker 3: from that. Last time I checked with Treasury, we had

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Speaker 3: received zero sense for our offshore LNG exports. We're one

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Speaker 3: of the biggest offshore y exporters in the world. It

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Speaker 3: just makes no sense to me that we're giving away

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Speaker 3: a finite resource for free to mostly multinational corporations who

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Speaker 3: then don't actually pay much tax here.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing. So we don't get the gas in

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Speaker 1: Australia and they're not paying the tax, so we're not

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Speaker 1: getting the revenue. Who set up this system? And why

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Speaker 1: is it like that? Why are we doing this?

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Speaker 3: Both sides of politics have overseen this where on the

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Speaker 3: one hand, we're giving away gas for free, and then

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Speaker 3: we're also not saying you have to at least put

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Speaker 3: a certain percentage of gas into the East Coast gas market,

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Speaker 3: and so we're essentially paying export prices for our own

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Speaker 3: gas impacts. Up in Darwin, I think is a really

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Speaker 3: good example of everything that's wrong with this whole sort

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Speaker 3: of regime of giving away our gas. They export nine

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Speaker 3: million tons annually, which doesn't really mean much, but that's

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Speaker 3: more than New South Wales, Victoria and South Australia use combined.

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Speaker 3: They pay no royalties on the gas that they extract,

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Speaker 3: they've never paid patrolling resource rent tax, and they hardly

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Speaker 3: pay any tax at all on their sort of corporate tax.

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Speaker 3: So not contributing getting our gas for free, exporting it

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Speaker 3: to Japan, and then we learn out that Japan is

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Speaker 3: now importing and then exporting our gas. They've become this

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Speaker 3: sort of middle middleman with our gas and made over

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Speaker 3: a billion dollars last year from doing that to our own gas.

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Speaker 3: So we're getting totally totally data as a country.

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Speaker 2: I look at the UAE with petrol over there, so

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Speaker 2: in Dubai you're paying a dollar or a liter for fuel.

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Speaker 2: If that was the case, we had the same thing here.

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Speaker 2: We should be getting gas for as cheap as chips

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Speaker 2: we should buy. My last gas bill was sixteen hundred dollars,

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Speaker 2: that's on top, and the electric bill was thirteen hundred dollars,

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Speaker 2: and that's just so that's quite phenomenal. I just don't

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Speaker 2: understand we should be getting it for free. We should

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Speaker 2: be like the Arabs.

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Speaker 3: It should be, it should be, it should be cheaper.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I've met with big industrial gas users

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Speaker 3: who are using it to make fertilizer and other things,

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Speaker 3: and they say they're paying twenty bucks a gigdul and

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Speaker 3: they know that it's being exported in some instances at

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Speaker 3: four dollars a gigadeel.

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Speaker 1: So I don't.

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Speaker 3: Understand why politicians aren't putting Australians ahead of the interests

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Speaker 3: of multinationals and foreign countries like, this is our gas.

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Speaker 3: It's a finite resource. We should be getting a good

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Speaker 3: return on it. And I think you only have to

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Speaker 3: look at Norway the approach they've taken to oil and gas.

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Speaker 3: They have a two point eight trillion dollar sovereign wealth

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Speaker 3: fund for their future, and we've got a trillion dollars

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Speaker 3: of national debt despite being one of the biggest fossil

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Speaker 3: fuel exporters in the world when it comes to coal, gas,

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Speaker 3: he ironoy exports all of these things that belong to

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Speaker 3: all of us, and yet we're not capturing the value

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Speaker 3: of that. I really think that needs to change. I

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Speaker 3: think more and more Australians are waking up to that

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Speaker 3: and saying, hey, you've got to put us first. This

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Speaker 3: is money that could be going into education and healthcare.

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Speaker 2: Can we get out? This deal's done for forty years.

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Speaker 2: We can't do anything about it.

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Speaker 3: So the argument that the major parties that put forward

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Speaker 3: is exactly that, ah, well, you know, sovereign risk, we

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Speaker 3: can't do anything. One of the things that I've been

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Speaker 3: pushing them on is even if you just look at

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Speaker 3: uncontracted gas, so there's a there's gas that has long

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Speaker 3: term contracts, and then there's this big pool of uncontracted

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Speaker 3: gas which is multiples of any projected shortfall here in Australia.

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Speaker 3: If we just said, right, any uncontracted gas has to

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Speaker 3: come to Australians first, that's a solution. So yeah, I

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Speaker 3: don't really understand why there isn't the political will there.

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Speaker 3: It seems like they're a bit captured by these corporations

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Speaker 3: and putting them ahead of all of us. This belongs

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Speaker 3: to us. So yeah, I think there's more and more

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Speaker 3: voices speaking up on this, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: once more Australians understand what's actually being happened. How were

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Speaker 3: given being scammed that they'll be changed?

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Speaker 2: Well, David, you brought it to our attention.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and our kids are paying more through the techs

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Speaker 1: and these multinationals are paying tex on our natural resources.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah, young people are paying more back in hex

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Speaker 3: then we're getting from gas. Nurses pay more tax than

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Speaker 3: than we're getting from gas, and you know, I think

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Speaker 3: the gas companies are getting very sensitive about this. Every

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Speaker 3: time I talk about it, I get letters from gas

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Speaker 3: companies trying to point out that they pay things like

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Speaker 3: payroll tax and you know other taxes, but you know

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Speaker 3: that seems pretty standard to me. Most businesses are paying

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Speaker 3: that and most businesses aren't getting their inputs basically for free,

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Speaker 3: so this does need to change.

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Speaker 2: Well, David, thank you for joining us and thank you

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Speaker 2: for setting us straight on that.

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Speaker 3: Well, thanks Pepes for covering it. I think this is

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Speaker 3: a really important one.

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Speaker 1: Of course it is well independent politician, they're David Pocock.

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Speaker 1: So interesting, isn't it an outrageous