WEBVTT - Lucy Letby

0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.240
<v Speaker 1>On the tenth of October twenty and twenty two, a

0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:08.440
<v Speaker 1>thirty three year old neonatal nurse was on trial. She

0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.000
<v Speaker 1>was charged with seven counts of murder and ten cases

0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.800
<v Speaker 1>of attempted murder, all which took place at the Countess

0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:21.240
<v Speaker 1>of Chester Hospital between twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen. The

0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:25.720
<v Speaker 1>magnitude of this story cannot be understated. The victims were

0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:30.200
<v Speaker 1>just babies. This is the case of Britain's most prolific

0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.280
<v Speaker 1>female child serial killer, Lucy let Be.

0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.640
<v Speaker 2>It's just a disgusting story, it really is. I'm sure

0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:40.280
<v Speaker 2>you'll tell it well, but I know the case that

0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.239
<v Speaker 2>it's absolutely horrific. You ready not really? Oh but I

0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.479
<v Speaker 2>was getting some kisses on my knee from Diggs just then,

0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:48.519
<v Speaker 2>so it's going to know. He knows that we're going

0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:49.959
<v Speaker 2>to need some support through this year.

0:00:50.120 --> 0:01:05.720
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely.

0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.319
<v Speaker 1>Hey there, everybody, welcome to not Another crime podcast. I'm

0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Georgia Love, I'm Saving Peterson. I'm a journalist. I am not.

0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.320
<v Speaker 2>But you are a damn good person.

0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.399
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for saying that. To dig.

0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:30.119
<v Speaker 4>Dig just opened my legs like that.

0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't like that at all. That's very weird. He's

0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.080
<v Speaker 1>just licking you. You can tap him on the nose

0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:34.560
<v Speaker 1>if you want to do.

0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:36.920
<v Speaker 2>It's quite nice. I've been away for three days and

0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:37.600
<v Speaker 2>he's missed me.

0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.680
<v Speaker 1>He missed. It's actually really nice. I did the same

0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:42.120
<v Speaker 1>at the door.

0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, kissed my legs, licking my shits lovely as you

0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:49.840
<v Speaker 2>do what i've You're always Hey, guys, if you don't

0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.919
<v Speaker 2>want to listen to us talking about this kind of stuff,

0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.520
<v Speaker 2>you can skip ahead to just listen to the story.

0:01:56.680 --> 0:01:59.840
<v Speaker 4>The time is in the show, is it?

0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.840
<v Speaker 1>And I heard from Stickers by Claude today. She was

0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:07.840
<v Speaker 1>very excited to hear everything on the podcast last week

0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.080
<v Speaker 1>and was very excited that we read out her letter

0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:13.800
<v Speaker 1>and opened the stickers yet again.

0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.680
<v Speaker 2>We love them. And guess what, we actually got more

0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:22.240
<v Speaker 2>stickers this weekend and magnets from a beautiful listener of

0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.680
<v Speaker 2>ours named Emilie, who has left us big pipe on

0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:26.440
<v Speaker 2>the pod before.

0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:27.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, she has.

0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.200
<v Speaker 2>And I was down in my favorite place on Earth, Tasmania,

0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.480
<v Speaker 2>for a food and wine festival, and this gorgeous girl

0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.160
<v Speaker 2>came up to me with an envelope in her hands

0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:42.000
<v Speaker 2>that said to Sammy and g and digs and pawdry

0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.919
<v Speaker 2>and our beautiful listener, Emilie heard me talking about that

0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.440
<v Speaker 2>that was going to this food wine for all, yes

0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:53.960
<v Speaker 2>in Lonceston, and brought a gift with her of stickers

0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:57.200
<v Speaker 2>and magnets that she had made for us and found

0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.040
<v Speaker 2>me at the festival and gave me them. And I

0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.560
<v Speaker 2>will say, first of all, a huge thank you to Emilie.

0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.880
<v Speaker 2>You were so sweet and it's just so beautiful to

0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.040
<v Speaker 2>think of us at all at alone bring me presents,

0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.280
<v Speaker 2>and it's so lovely to meet listeners out in the wild.

0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:14.639
<v Speaker 2>But can I say, Sammy pe I'm never going to

0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.640
<v Speaker 2>be able to travel without you ever again, because over

0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.519
<v Speaker 2>the three days carried, I need you to carry my things. Yes,

0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:28.160
<v Speaker 2>I had an overwhelming number of people come up to

0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.240
<v Speaker 2>me and first of all say they listened to the podcast,

0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:34.440
<v Speaker 2>which made me so happy. Everyone said, we're Sammy. We

0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:35.520
<v Speaker 2>thought he would be here.

0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:37.680
<v Speaker 1>So you had Gareth, I.

0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Did have my friend Garth. And we're not allowed to

0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:47.000
<v Speaker 2>travel alone anymore. So I'm booking your festival ticket.

0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:47.680
<v Speaker 4>For next year right now.

0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. You're in advance. Was it amazing?

0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.440
<v Speaker 2>It was so funny. It is just the most fun

0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:55.680
<v Speaker 2>we can This is not critty Spoon in any way.

0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Spoon just a Boy British India and Boy and Bear

0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:07.880
<v Speaker 2>with the music act. Oh yeah, fantastic music obviously, fantastic

0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.480
<v Speaker 2>food and wine because it's Tasmanian. The weather was beautiful.

0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.120
<v Speaker 2>It's just in a big park in City Park and

0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:17.560
<v Speaker 2>loncestein and there's food and wine stalls and different stages

0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.279
<v Speaker 2>set up everywhere, and you just like pick a spot

0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.159
<v Speaker 2>for the day. And we just like had our little crew.

0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.239
<v Speaker 2>There were four of us, and then just had friends

0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.240
<v Speaker 2>that live in Tazzy kind of come and go and

0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.280
<v Speaker 2>join us for a couple of hours and then you know,

0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.240
<v Speaker 2>move on somewhere else and we'd have other friends come

0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.040
<v Speaker 2>and it was just three days of just drinking and

0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.560
<v Speaker 2>chatting and catching up and eating son a hot jam donut.

0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:38.719
<v Speaker 2>I did not have a single hot jam donut. I

0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:43.240
<v Speaker 2>had some, okay, no churros, you know, man, I'm not a.

0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Sweet scallop, That's true. There is a store your whole

0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.840
<v Speaker 1>birthday cake in the rain crying correct.

0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:57.080
<v Speaker 2>There was a stall there with the funniest name I've

0:04:57.080 --> 0:05:01.119
<v Speaker 2>ever seen, because it just like no way makes sense

0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.560
<v Speaker 2>from what I can ascertain, and that right.

0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:09.280
<v Speaker 1>That broke the internet.

0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.400
<v Speaker 2>The store is called Smallest pancakes.

0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:16.440
<v Speaker 5>I saw you.

0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Smallest pancakes.

0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Explain yourself.

0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.359
<v Speaker 2>I can't explain it. It doesn't make sense. So funny,

0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:28.200
<v Speaker 2>smallest pancakes.

0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:37.159
<v Speaker 1>Festivals with pancakescakes and they make them for festivals, don't know, doesn't.

0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.080
<v Speaker 2>Make any sense. And me and my grammar nerd friends,

0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:42.000
<v Speaker 2>it was the funniest thing.

0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:47.440
<v Speaker 1>No, you didn't want to find the answer. I couldn't left.

0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:48.599
<v Speaker 4>And that's my humor.

0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:54.920
<v Speaker 2>It's too many pluralless. I think it's top dear, that's

0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:56.880
<v Speaker 2>so funny. Can you tell me about your weekend?

0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:01.800
<v Speaker 1>I had my own festivallet here at home. Diggs and

0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.599
<v Speaker 1>I had a bottle of jams. We danced. Hey, we

0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:05.919
<v Speaker 1>should go hungry Jack's on the weekend.

0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh my, what can I say?

0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Sorry about that?

0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.240
<v Speaker 2>So Jans is a Tasmanian wine.

0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Correct.

0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Guess what they didn't have at Festivale?

0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Chance they haven't done a few years years they have

0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.760
<v Speaker 1>not done FESTIVALI and this is my formal complaint to Jans.

0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Go back to Festivale. Please. There is no way you're

0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.320
<v Speaker 2>not making enough money from it, because my family and

0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.560
<v Speaker 2>I and all my friends have I'm certain kept you

0:06:33.640 --> 0:06:36.160
<v Speaker 2>in business for many years. So if you need us

0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:38.839
<v Speaker 2>to play more per bottle. We actually always comment on

0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.720
<v Speaker 2>the fact that it's cellar door prices, but at a

0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.320
<v Speaker 2>food and wine festival like it's wild, it's so good,

0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.800
<v Speaker 2>So we always commented about the fact that it was

0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.320
<v Speaker 2>really affordable. If you need to bump up the prices,

0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:51.760
<v Speaker 2>we're still going to buy it a promise.

0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.360
<v Speaker 1>The girls from Jams came to my comedy festival show.

0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah the best Emily Fitzgerald, who I bloody loved it.

0:06:58.120 --> 0:06:59.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why I said. He last name Emily,

0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:03.560
<v Speaker 1>and then during oh yeah, then they took me out

0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.120
<v Speaker 1>for drinks at another time and I went out to there.

0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.280
<v Speaker 1>They had like a food and wine day in Melbourne

0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:12.920
<v Speaker 1>and they took me out for that. I drank my

0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:16.080
<v Speaker 1>body weight because it was so much fun, and then

0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.480
<v Speaker 1>I was like, like they invited us there, me and

0:07:18.520 --> 0:07:21.120
<v Speaker 1>my friend Brom But then it was also like we

0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:23.080
<v Speaker 1>shouldn't drink too much because it will make fools of

0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.040
<v Speaker 1>ourselves and everything. The only two people that were drinking

0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:30.000
<v Speaker 1>and not spitting into buckets there was everyone was professional and.

0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Btoons has reminded me of.

0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.280
<v Speaker 1>What can we do spitting in a bucket?

0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:34.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:36.320
<v Speaker 1>Can we do.

0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:41.120
<v Speaker 2>A big rest in pieces to Catherine O'Hara.

0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:42.760
<v Speaker 1>What's batoons? What's that?

0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.720
<v Speaker 2>My favorite line from Ship's Creek is when she said

0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:47.800
<v Speaker 2>that she took her daughter Alexis on a holiday to

0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:52.120
<v Speaker 2>France and Alexis goes, yeah, I was eight and it

0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:53.920
<v Speaker 2>was a wine to and she goes, well, you could

0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:55.960
<v Speaker 2>have used the spittoons like the other children.

0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.840
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen all the ship's craik what yeah.

0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well once we're through sea change, you know.

0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:02.720
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:08:02.760 --> 0:08:07.040
<v Speaker 1>Because Katherinehara, I'm a huge fan of her from improvised films.

0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.800
<v Speaker 1>So the reason I love her is because she was

0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.200
<v Speaker 1>waiting for waiting for her Yeah, and welcome to golfin

0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:17.480
<v Speaker 1>whatever that is, waiting for Guffman a mighty win in Show,

0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:22.080
<v Speaker 1>Best in Show for your consideration. She did so many

0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.880
<v Speaker 1>amazing films where she acted in them, but it was

0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.640
<v Speaker 1>improvised and she's just the funniest person in every film.

0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.200
<v Speaker 1>And then and then you know Beatlejuice Home alone, like

0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.480
<v Speaker 1>just an incredible.

0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:35.120
<v Speaker 4>Actor, absolutely amazing.

0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:36.960
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know that she like she's so she was

0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:38.880
<v Speaker 1>so young as well, like she was just in the

0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:40.120
<v Speaker 1>studio the TV show member.

0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.080
<v Speaker 2>I know like like in the last year.

0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it was just incredible.

0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:48.480
<v Speaker 2>A huge, huge shock, you know, our time in Australia

0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.680
<v Speaker 2>waking up and opening up social media and that's all

0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:55.760
<v Speaker 2>that was. It's really I very rarely get kind of

0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:59.480
<v Speaker 2>affected by celebrity dance because it's sad, but I don't

0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.480
<v Speaker 2>know them back to me. This one really really upset me.

0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:04.359
<v Speaker 1>She seemed like a beautiful person.

0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:08.040
<v Speaker 2>She said, she's just yeah, yeah, like you said, you

0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.640
<v Speaker 2>we didn't know she was sick. She was only seventy one.

0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.520
<v Speaker 1>And I think I think it's like Rob Ryaner and like,

0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:15.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it is. It is such an awful, awful

0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.960
<v Speaker 1>time in general, really and then and then you know

0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:20.880
<v Speaker 1>these deaths. You know, he's got oh my god, like

0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.760
<v Speaker 1>a comedy another comedy legend that was just like inspired everybody,

0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:29.720
<v Speaker 1>like Katain Hahara, like kind of the understated person in comedy.

0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes, every single.

0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Everyone was like, oh, yeah, she's the funniest person in

0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:34.439
<v Speaker 1>the world. But everyone said that about her. I kind

0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.560
<v Speaker 1>of feel the something about Julia Louis Dreyfuss. Yes, she's

0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.640
<v Speaker 1>the funniest person. She never get number one, though, but

0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.640
<v Speaker 1>she is like when you actually cannot think of her. Yeah,

0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.040
<v Speaker 1>Julie Luid Dreyfus, amazing. Yeah, that is there.

0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Reading the book in the at the moment, and the character,

0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:53.719
<v Speaker 2>the main character's cat is called Julia Luis Dreyfust. It's

0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:54.880
<v Speaker 2>good a cat name, isn't it.

0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.800
<v Speaker 1>I like it? God, we used to laugh. Hey we

0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:00.360
<v Speaker 1>still like we still laugh?

0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Can we talk about that? This is not a funny topic.

0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:07.240
<v Speaker 2>This is very serious to me. The last time we recorded, Yes,

0:10:07.440 --> 0:10:10.280
<v Speaker 2>you said, well, I was away in non Senston.

0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.480
<v Speaker 1>You were going to watch heated Rivalry?

0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:14.240
<v Speaker 2>Did you do it?

0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Can tell you what I watched it instead? Morning was

0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:20.120
<v Speaker 1>You've never wanted?

0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Warning was before?

0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Now what now? I watched an episode back in the day,

0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.840
<v Speaker 1>one episode fantastic, so good.

0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.080
<v Speaker 2>The first season, watch that you got hungry Jacks drank Jans,

0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.520
<v Speaker 2>had a dance party with digs and watched.

0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.720
<v Speaker 1>Had a mental breakdown. I watched. I watched that someone

0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.160
<v Speaker 1>had a mental collapse, just dancing with more.

0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Morning was give me your burg.

0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:49.840
<v Speaker 1>No. But so I had that on and I got

0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:50.720
<v Speaker 1>up to the second season.

0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:53.200
<v Speaker 4>Isn't the first season brilliant?

0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.439
<v Speaker 1>It's amazing. I don't I don't really know where the

0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.800
<v Speaker 1>second season's going. But I'm loving it so far. But yeah,

0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.160
<v Speaker 1>that's how much I watched. So no answer to your question,

0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:05.360
<v Speaker 1>I haven't watched Heated Rivalry, but I've seen many memoirs

0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.240
<v Speaker 1>about it. I've seen many gifts about it. I've seen

0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.240
<v Speaker 1>so much going on with these two homosexual men who

0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.959
<v Speaker 1>play hockey, and I can't wait to see this two

0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:19.040
<v Speaker 1>homosexual men play hockey, make love, fall in love, and

0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.440
<v Speaker 1>go to the cottage. It's all about he knows it.

0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:27.160
<v Speaker 2>My close personal friend Connor Story is hosting SNL this week.

0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.199
<v Speaker 2>My close personal friend.

0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.040
<v Speaker 1>Connor's Story, Connor Story.

0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, their actual name, yes, And who's that Ilia Rosanov.

0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:38.640
<v Speaker 1>And that's one of the characters, one of the main gays. Yes,

0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:40.160
<v Speaker 1>I get it now.

0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he's hosting SNL. Oh, so we can maybe watch

0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.840
<v Speaker 2>that as your entry into the problem with you not

0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:51.040
<v Speaker 2>watching it while I wasn't here is now I'm going

0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:52.360
<v Speaker 2>to have to watch it with you, and I'm going

0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.480
<v Speaker 2>to be absolutely like heinous to watch it with.

0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.959
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, we've got two nights together this week

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.520
<v Speaker 1>before you your head off again and go to Tasmania

0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:04.000
<v Speaker 1>again this weekend.

0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.319
<v Speaker 2>This weekend, I have a wine festival in Hobar I'm

0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.440
<v Speaker 2>working at this one. This one is a job, not

0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:11.320
<v Speaker 2>just pleas here.

0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.000
<v Speaker 1>But that doesn't anyway doing the worm on the dance floor.

0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.320
<v Speaker 4>Try to bring in the two.

0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:21.240
<v Speaker 1>If you can't work, to work work and pleasure.

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:23.560
<v Speaker 2>If you can't have pleasure, I have work. You know,

0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.720
<v Speaker 2>as they say, that's actually going to be on my tombstone?

0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.600
<v Speaker 1>Could that be your catchphrase or not? Cat trase? But

0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.120
<v Speaker 1>what you say when they say madam business or pleasure

0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.280
<v Speaker 1>and you say both? I mean for the wine festival?

0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Is that good? You could say that. That could be

0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of phone. You could say that no, no heated

0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 1>rivalry just yet.

0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:43.880
<v Speaker 2>But guys, can you bully Sammy with me? Please? Get

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 2>onto your Instagram at Sammy Peterson Unofficial. Get onto our

0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:51.199
<v Speaker 2>Instagram and our TikTok YouTube not another crime podcast.

0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.559
<v Speaker 1>Can you freely follow that? You can anyone follow that?

0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Can you just freely follow that?

0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.800
<v Speaker 2>Freely follow it and it is free to follow.

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.400
<v Speaker 1>You don't even have to pay for everyone doing that

0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:02.040
<v Speaker 1>listens to this.

0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't understand. No, I don't know why that. I

0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.840
<v Speaker 2>can't answer for you because I follow all of them

0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:07.800
<v Speaker 2>for free.

0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.800
<v Speaker 1>For free. That's amazing stuff. Okay, so check that out and.

0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.520
<v Speaker 2>You can follow us and then bully Sammy into watching

0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Heated Rivalry.

0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.000
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you what, I'll watch Heated Rivalry if you

0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.560
<v Speaker 1>watch my comedy special. It's on YouTube dot com. Check

0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.600
<v Speaker 1>it out. It's on YouTube dot com. I went to

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Comedy Republic on the weekend where I filmed my comedy special,

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.920
<v Speaker 1>and I tell you what, drinks were flowing. I got

0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.400
<v Speaker 1>free drinks from all three of the owners.

0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh my, because.

0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:38.000
<v Speaker 1>They've said, they've said and well they haven't said that.

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.280
<v Speaker 1>I've said that, and they put me in the newsletter

0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:42.199
<v Speaker 1>this week. It's beautiful. I feel. Yeah. I'm at the

0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.640
<v Speaker 1>top of the newsletter. You're at the topic godamn game

0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.839
<v Speaker 1>and the bottom, top and bottom heated riby reference. And

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:52.120
<v Speaker 1>I will be celebrating you celebrate and watch it right

0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:56.720
<v Speaker 1>now on the Comedy Republic channel. I would have you

0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 1>watched it, yes with you? Oh yeh yeah yeah yeah.

0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Got a little first little tease part of it. Yeah,

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:06.920
<v Speaker 1>but I'm very excited about it. That's on YouTube dot com.

0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:08.760
<v Speaker 1>If you want to watch that, watch it.

0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Tonight on my actual TV wall, like I'm going to

0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.440
<v Speaker 2>and watch it with I don't have surround sound. I

0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.439
<v Speaker 2>live in an old apartment and I don't really care

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.480
<v Speaker 2>about technology, but I'm gonna watch it and maybe like

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:23.200
<v Speaker 2>play the podcast on my phone, like on the back

0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:24.960
<v Speaker 2>of the couch so they' will be surround sound. I

0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:26.440
<v Speaker 2>guess do you want to come over and is it

0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:27.760
<v Speaker 2>on the other side of me? And then you can

0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:28.480
<v Speaker 2>talk about.

0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 1>But if you watch my comedy special, go to the

0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.520
<v Speaker 1>Comedy Public YouTube channel. Check that out. Do you love?

0:14:35.520 --> 0:14:38.760
<v Speaker 1>You've got anything to plug? When's your goddamn podcast coming back? Oh?

0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 1>This one soon? I've caught a great plug.

0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 2>Ye, I can't remember the date that it's launching, but

0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 2>I've got my first interview for season eight.

0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 1>Of snotting into the microphone like you did. Last Week's

0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:54.000
<v Speaker 1>got a great clip of that. Don't worry about that's

0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.160
<v Speaker 1>coming out at the time of recording. It'll well, iDrive

0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:58.960
<v Speaker 1>recording is coming out. It'll ad.

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Season eight. If everyone has an X. My other podcast

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 2>is coming back. It is confirmed. I have my first

0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:11.000
<v Speaker 2>interview for this season this week.

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:12.160
<v Speaker 1>You got John Goodman.

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.400
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm not interviewing John Goodman. No.

0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Remember your friend our friend, I'd like to say our friend. Bam.

0:15:20.280 --> 0:15:21.520
<v Speaker 1>You didn't pull me up on it, but for some

0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 1>reason got really aggresive, said our friend Bam. When I

0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.760
<v Speaker 1>met one of the first times, I said to her,

0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.080
<v Speaker 1>because she's work with the project, I said, oh, yeah,

0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.560
<v Speaker 1>who have you interviewed Squidward? And she goes, no, one

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 1>haven't I've even met squid because people all night Bam reckon,

0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:41.040
<v Speaker 1>she's interviewed celebrities at the project. She hadn't ever met Squidward.

0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Just love getting slightly wrong quid Quidward. Oh, I worked at.

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:49.600
<v Speaker 2>A place that interviewed celebrities.

0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.840
<v Speaker 1>If you interview interviewed Quidward. I would like to say

0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 1>as well, thank you to all the people that continually

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.440
<v Speaker 1>write to us. We bloody love it. We'll be doing

0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.680
<v Speaker 1>the mail bag section at the end. You get right

0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.600
<v Speaker 1>into me at samit just another company dot com dot au.

0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.640
<v Speaker 1>You can leave us a voicemail. We call that a pipe.

0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.120
<v Speaker 1>The links are below in the show notes love hearing

0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.480
<v Speaker 1>your voice.

0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:13.880
<v Speaker 2>I met another listener at the airport on my way

0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.920
<v Speaker 2>to lon Sesst. She was going down for festival as well.

0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 2>She is the one that owns the dress shop in

0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.080
<v Speaker 2>Port Douglas, and she'd written us an email, I mean

0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.440
<v Speaker 2>here at the well, not another crime podcast listeners out

0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:27.800
<v Speaker 2>there in the wild, you.

0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.120
<v Speaker 1>Just never know when you might meet I know they'll

0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.000
<v Speaker 1>spring out and get you. You can never be safe

0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:37.560
<v Speaker 1>in this world. The Port Douglas beautiful frocks, I imagine, Yes,

0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>was she wearing one?

0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Was she looking good at the airport?

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.040
<v Speaker 2>Oh? She was looking great at the airport. I was going, okay, guys,

0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.080
<v Speaker 2>I was going to take some photos and put them

0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 2>up on the podcast page, like this is what you

0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 2>can wear at the airport, this is what you can't

0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.000
<v Speaker 2>wear at the airport. But then I realized it's not

0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>a nice thing to do to take an unsolicited photo

0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 2>of someone put it on the internet saying this is

0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.720
<v Speaker 2>a bad outfit. So I didn't do that.

0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:01.960
<v Speaker 1>I think, and may be wrong on this. It was

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 1>either Ben Lawrence or one of the many Emmas or

0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.440
<v Speaker 1>Gemmas that listening to the podcast sent in a photo

0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:12.800
<v Speaker 1>of someone on the plane, Alex maybe it was Alex

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.000
<v Speaker 1>oh anyway, but they had a a sparkly hat on

0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.680
<v Speaker 1>the plane. And when g would be happy about this

0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:21.560
<v Speaker 1>sparkly top beautiful?

0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:26.520
<v Speaker 2>It was a picture show. Yes with Colombia. No, not

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.199
<v Speaker 2>great McLaughlin, Nope.

0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.240
<v Speaker 1>If that's that's another crime.

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, it was found not guilty.

0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 1>That doesn't mean allegedly crime. Hey, everybody, we're going to

0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.639
<v Speaker 1>get into this episode this week. I want to say

0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.479
<v Speaker 1>that I had not heard of this crime before and

0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.480
<v Speaker 1>it was a real surprise to me. It is a really,

0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:49.640
<v Speaker 1>really awful crime. There is at the time of recording,

0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:53.320
<v Speaker 1>a Netflix documentary coming out in just a few days, and.

0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.480
<v Speaker 2>A huge trigger warning for this episode that it deals

0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>with the death of babies, not even just children, babies.

0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.440
<v Speaker 1>And by the time you listen to this, the Netflix

0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.640
<v Speaker 1>dot will be out and hey will either recommend it

0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 1>or we won't.

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.080
<v Speaker 2>But we can't tell you now because we don't know.

0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:10.520
<v Speaker 2>And also, you know, somebody did all the research for

0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 2>this without even having the Docker to watch.

0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.440
<v Speaker 1>That's right, so some of us is incorrect. No, it's

0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:25.919
<v Speaker 1>not check it ready for this. Yeah, wolves are easy

0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 1>to spot. Wolves wolves like uh huh. Those are sorts

0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.359
<v Speaker 1>of wolves. Sharp teeth, yellow eyes, are hunger that shows

0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:36.360
<v Speaker 1>itself in the way they move. But the most dangerous

0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.480
<v Speaker 1>wolves learn early how to soften their steps, how to

0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>lower their gaze, how to wear gentleness like a borrowed skin.

0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 1>In this place, softness was the uniform voices stayed low,

0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.879
<v Speaker 1>hands were careful, Smiles were meant to reassure. Lives small

0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.080
<v Speaker 1>enough to fit in the crook of an arm depended

0:18:56.119 --> 0:19:00.720
<v Speaker 1>on routines, regular safety, trust, and the unsp oaken faith

0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.280
<v Speaker 1>that those who stood watched through the night were there

0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 1>to actually protect, never to do harm. No one thought

0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.320
<v Speaker 1>to question the figure who blended so completely into that promise,

0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:17.800
<v Speaker 1>who spoke the language of care fluently, who appeared when

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:23.119
<v Speaker 1>alarm sounded, there to protect, not to harm, who seemed

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.480
<v Speaker 1>to grieve when things went wrong, grieve with them. This

0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.399
<v Speaker 1>is a story of a wolf in sheep's clothing, not

0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:34.719
<v Speaker 1>one that proud at the edges, not one that prowled

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.399
<v Speaker 1>at the edges, but one that stood at the center

0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.440
<v Speaker 1>of the flock. It is a story about how evil

0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:44.439
<v Speaker 1>does not always announce itself with noise or chaos. You

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:48.000
<v Speaker 1>can't always listen for the chickens in the pen, But

0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:52.639
<v Speaker 1>sometimes it arrives quietly, wrapped in kindness, waiting for the

0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.200
<v Speaker 1>moment when no one is looking closely enough to see

0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:59.639
<v Speaker 1>the teeth beneath the wall. This is a story of

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 1>loose let.

0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Bea that was beautifully written, and I'm tearing up already

0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:06.760
<v Speaker 2>that was really beautifully written.

0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.560
<v Speaker 4>It's just such a fucking woman, I know.

0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Lucy let Be was described by her colleagues as quiet,

0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:18.360
<v Speaker 1>ordinary and entirely unassuming. To those who worked alongside her,

0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:23.320
<v Speaker 1>she was a kind and dedicated nurse, someone passionate about

0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.440
<v Speaker 1>her job, and wholly trusted by the people who depended

0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>on her care the most. A clear trigger warning before

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.440
<v Speaker 1>we go any further on this, jez Or already mentioned this,

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.560
<v Speaker 1>but this is not an easy story to hear or

0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:41.320
<v Speaker 1>to tell. At the heart of it lies a deeply

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:46.520
<v Speaker 1>unsettling question. Is Lucy let Be a serial killer responsible

0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:50.720
<v Speaker 1>for the deaths and society's most vulnerable, or is she innocent,

0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:56.399
<v Speaker 1>a scapegoat used to mask profound and longstanding systematic failures

0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:01.200
<v Speaker 1>within the NHS. Let Be herself has claimed that her

0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:07.560
<v Speaker 1>unit was chronically overstretched, dangerously understaffed, and routinely unable to

0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.520
<v Speaker 1>provide the standard of care its patients required. For those

0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:16.400
<v Speaker 1>unfamiliar the NHS, the National Health Service is United Kingdom's

0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.600
<v Speaker 1>publicly funded healthcare system. It provides comprehensive medical care to

0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.720
<v Speaker 1>local to legal residents, with most services free at the

0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.959
<v Speaker 1>point of use and funded primarily through general tax the

0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.640
<v Speaker 1>NHS is not a single entity, but a collective term

0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:38.680
<v Speaker 1>for four special separate systems NHS England, NHS Scotland, NHS Wales.

0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:42.680
<v Speaker 2>I want to guess the next one, NHS Florida.

0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Got You're so close, and Health and Social Care in

0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Northern Ireland so close though, just just down the road.

0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.080
<v Speaker 1>G and I are not parents, but this episode deals

0:21:54.119 --> 0:21:57.479
<v Speaker 1>with themes that you may find deeply distressing, whether you're

0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:00.159
<v Speaker 1>a parent or not. We encourage you to skip this

0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:02.440
<v Speaker 1>episode and return to one of our other fun ones

0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:04.960
<v Speaker 1>if that's what you want to do. I personally found

0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:10.040
<v Speaker 1>researching this case extremely difficult, as always were deliberately avoided,

0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:14.359
<v Speaker 1>including the most graphic and disturbing details. This is not

0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:18.000
<v Speaker 1>another crime podcast and there are other places for those accounts.

0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Our focus here is on understanding the story, not sensationalizing it.

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>In October twenty twenty two, Lucy let Be was accused

0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:32.399
<v Speaker 1>of attempting to murder twenty two infants. Twenty two, Lucy

0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.360
<v Speaker 1>became known as one of Britain's most prolific child serial killers.

0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:38.400
<v Speaker 1>The most haunting.

0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Aspect, sorry to interrupt, even just saying one of is

0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:42.760
<v Speaker 2>fucking horrified.

0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:46.359
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, but yeah, but we'll go into

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.159
<v Speaker 1>the other people that the other in this as well.

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:51.080
<v Speaker 1>The most haunting aspect of the story to most is

0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:53.639
<v Speaker 1>that Lucy does not seem like a serial killer. How

0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:56.720
<v Speaker 1>not many people really do. We look at Jeffrey Dharmer

0:22:56.880 --> 0:22:58.800
<v Speaker 1>or John Wayne Gacy and there's something about them that

0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:00.680
<v Speaker 1>you go, oh, yeah, that could be a serial killer,

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:03.680
<v Speaker 1>and we can see a serial killer in that instant.

0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:10.080
<v Speaker 1>It's an uncomfortable phrase, but one the media adopted Lucy

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:13.199
<v Speaker 1>Lepby's killing field. The hospital at the center of that

0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:17.159
<v Speaker 1>label was a Countess of Chester hospital, located in Chester

0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:21.240
<v Speaker 1>and serving the local population of North Wales. Around two

0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:25.399
<v Speaker 1>thousand babies are born there each year WOW, and the

0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.800
<v Speaker 1>hospital includes a special care unit dedicated to providing round

0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:33.359
<v Speaker 1>the clock treatment for the most vulnerable infants. Historically, deaths

0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.520
<v Speaker 1>at the hospital were rare. In twenty ten, there was

0:23:37.640 --> 0:23:41.879
<v Speaker 1>just one recorded death of a premature baby WOW. In

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:46.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty ten and twenty twelve there were two deaths each year.

0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:51.359
<v Speaker 1>In twenty thirteen that number rose to three, and in

0:23:51.400 --> 0:23:56.280
<v Speaker 1>twenty fourteen there were again three. These figures reflected a

0:23:56.440 --> 0:24:01.400
<v Speaker 1>unit that by all appearances was functioning as intended providing

0:24:01.440 --> 0:24:06.639
<v Speaker 1>constant specialized care to critically ill and vulnerable newborns. In

0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:10.840
<v Speaker 1>twenty fifteen, this all changed. The number surged to a

0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:16.320
<v Speaker 1>staggering eight just in one year. The alarming thing wasn't

0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:19.320
<v Speaker 1>the sudden rise, but the nature of the death themselves.

0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.400
<v Speaker 1>Before these babies lost their lives, they were seemingly stable,

0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:28.479
<v Speaker 1>only to suddenly deteriorate without any warning. This pattern itself,

0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:33.000
<v Speaker 1>particularly in a special care unit, is extremely distressing and alarming,

0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:34.680
<v Speaker 1>not just the people that worked there, but also to

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 1>course the parents. What was particularly striking was how differently

0:24:39.560 --> 0:24:42.359
<v Speaker 1>the deaths were perceived depending on where you stood within

0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:46.600
<v Speaker 1>the hospital. For NHS nurses and doctors on the front line,

0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:51.600
<v Speaker 1>each death was absolutely devastating watching families endure the worst

0:24:51.600 --> 0:24:55.920
<v Speaker 1>moments of their lives. These losses had to be formally recorded,

0:24:56.280 --> 0:24:59.679
<v Speaker 1>but for those providing care they were far more than

0:24:59.800 --> 0:25:04.440
<v Speaker 1>just statistics. Each death was deeply troubling and raised serious

0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:07.919
<v Speaker 1>concern within the unit. And yeah, I said con Theerne.

0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:11.040
<v Speaker 1>Before we move on to how the first alarm was

0:25:11.119 --> 0:25:13.600
<v Speaker 1>raised by a fellow colleague, I'd like to share with

0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.639
<v Speaker 1>you a bit about Lucy let Be. Lucy was born

0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:23.520
<v Speaker 1>in Hereford, I believe Hereford or Hereford Hereford. Yeah, I

0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:27.600
<v Speaker 1>think Hereford. Let's go with Hereford Hereford in January nineteen ninety,

0:25:27.920 --> 0:25:30.639
<v Speaker 1>making her thirty three years old at the time of

0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:31.280
<v Speaker 1>her trial.

0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:31.840
<v Speaker 2>God.

0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 1>She attended Alston School before going on to study nursing

0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.920
<v Speaker 1>at the University of Chester. Nursing had long interested her.

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:43.840
<v Speaker 1>She'd experienced a difficult birth herself, and her mother often

0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:46.080
<v Speaker 1>told her that nurses had played a critical role in

0:25:46.160 --> 0:25:47.960
<v Speaker 1>saving her life as an infant.

0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Oh God.

0:25:49.600 --> 0:25:53.720
<v Speaker 1>After graduating, Lucy secured a permanent position as a neonatal

0:25:53.840 --> 0:25:58.680
<v Speaker 1>nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital at the Neonatal

0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Unit in early two thy twelve. That was difficult to

0:26:01.840 --> 0:26:03.080
<v Speaker 1>get out quite a few k neo natals.

0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:03.960
<v Speaker 2>They done really well.

0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for saying that. Early assessments of her performance

0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:10.960
<v Speaker 1>were mixed. Some colleagues noticed gaps in her clinical knowledge

0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:14.720
<v Speaker 1>and felt she needed to better recognize nonverbal distress in parents.

0:26:15.280 --> 0:26:17.479
<v Speaker 1>So be quite a big part of your role. I

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:20.359
<v Speaker 1>imagine as a nurses you really have to get to

0:26:20.440 --> 0:26:24.080
<v Speaker 1>know the parents and understand how they're adapting in a situation.

0:26:24.400 --> 0:26:28.119
<v Speaker 1>If they are really not coping with what's happening with

0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:30.520
<v Speaker 1>a few, even describing her manner as cold, so a

0:26:30.560 --> 0:26:32.520
<v Speaker 1>few people were like, oh, Lucy's quite a cold person.

0:26:33.160 --> 0:26:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Over time, however, she settled into the role and came

0:26:35.720 --> 0:26:39.840
<v Speaker 1>to be regarded as competent and well liked. Competent is

0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:42.280
<v Speaker 1>never a compliment. I think people just go, oh, they're competent.

0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:44.920
<v Speaker 1>It's fine. I think it's fine.

0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you should be competent at your job, no matter

0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:50.440
<v Speaker 2>what that job is. You should be competent, let alone

0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:52.200
<v Speaker 2>if it's about treating people.

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:57.359
<v Speaker 1>I know hospital. Lucy's upbringing was described as loving, warm,

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:01.679
<v Speaker 1>and stable, friendfre called she was initially quite shy, but

0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:05.199
<v Speaker 1>once comfortable, she was bubbly and fun. As a young adult,

0:27:05.280 --> 0:27:08.520
<v Speaker 1>she enjoyed cocktails with friends, salsa dancing, and holidays abroad,

0:27:08.800 --> 0:27:12.840
<v Speaker 1>including trips to Ibitha. I hate ob you really do,

0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:13.159
<v Speaker 1>don't you.

0:27:13.600 --> 0:27:15.560
<v Speaker 2>I told the story on here before, but I think.

0:27:15.440 --> 0:27:17.560
<v Speaker 1>You have terrible experience.

0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:21.000
<v Speaker 2>I just hated it. It's just like my least, it's

0:27:21.040 --> 0:27:25.920
<v Speaker 2>so not me. The party scene and my then husband

0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:30.440
<v Speaker 2>really wanted to go, so we did, and it ended

0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:32.320
<v Speaker 2>up being a big group trip with all his friends

0:27:32.359 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 2>and my friend. I'm they're my friends as well.

0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Anymore, Absolutely I hated it.

0:27:40.440 --> 0:27:44.439
<v Speaker 2>We couldn't get like, went out one night. I was

0:27:44.680 --> 0:27:47.560
<v Speaker 2>duped into thinking, well, no, I was told straight up,

0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:49.280
<v Speaker 2>it's not a DJ.

0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:50.600
<v Speaker 4>It's just like.

0:27:51.520 --> 0:27:54.159
<v Speaker 2>It's just you know, there is a DJ around the

0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:55.359
<v Speaker 2>point this place we're going to.

0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:57.480
<v Speaker 4>It was a massive fucking DJ set.

0:27:57.480 --> 0:27:58.440
<v Speaker 2>It was horrible.

0:27:58.480 --> 0:27:59.440
<v Speaker 4>I hated it.

0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:02.960
<v Speaker 2>Couldn't get home and I cracked the sheets and burst

0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:04.960
<v Speaker 2>into tears and booked myself into a five star hotel

0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:05.560
<v Speaker 2>for the next night.

0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Diva we regret. When the investigation began, Lucy was really

0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:16.239
<v Speaker 1>open with friends and family with what was happening. And

0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:18.280
<v Speaker 1>even though she was open, it was a massive shock

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 1>to them. And when she was eventually arrested, arrested, sorry,

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.000
<v Speaker 1>they just couldn't believe that because.

0:28:23.720 --> 0:28:26.280
<v Speaker 4>She, like, you mean, she told her friends and family.

0:28:25.960 --> 0:28:28.119
<v Speaker 1>She was open about the investigation that was ongoing, and

0:28:28.119 --> 0:28:29.639
<v Speaker 1>when she was actually arrested.

0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:33.720
<v Speaker 2>About the fact that they were investigating her, yes, and

0:28:34.000 --> 0:28:36.680
<v Speaker 2>these babies have been dying and the investigating and it's

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.600
<v Speaker 2>really was she saying like, you know, oh, how awful

0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:40.840
<v Speaker 2>is this that this is happening?

0:28:41.000 --> 0:28:43.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, yeah, while she's on the clock, Yeah yeah, exactly.

0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:45.720
<v Speaker 1>Those who knew Lucy. There was no question in their

0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:47.720
<v Speaker 1>minds that she was incapable of such.

0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Acts, so everyone around her was like, there's.

0:28:49.080 --> 0:28:52.040
<v Speaker 1>No there's no way, there's no way. There been no

0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:57.400
<v Speaker 1>warning signs, no foreshadowing, foreshadowing, foreshadowing, nothing to suggest she'll

0:28:57.480 --> 0:29:01.640
<v Speaker 1>one day be charged with these crimes. To understand what

0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:05.600
<v Speaker 1>happened next, we need to return to twenty fifteen, when

0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 1>there was a noticeable and deeply troubling rise in infant

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:12.720
<v Speaker 1>deaths on July two thousand. On the second of July

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:17.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty fifteen, shortly after the third death, the lead consultant

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:21.760
<v Speaker 1>on the war, Dr Stephen Breery, raised concerns with senior management.

0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:25.760
<v Speaker 1>His concerns centered specifically on Nurse Lucy.

0:29:25.520 --> 0:29:26.560
<v Speaker 4>Let be Wow.

0:29:27.240 --> 0:29:31.240
<v Speaker 1>Dr Breery had identified a disturbing pattern. Lucy had been

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:35.320
<v Speaker 1>present at all three deaths, yet despite the seriousness of

0:29:35.360 --> 0:29:40.000
<v Speaker 1>the observation, his concerns were not acted upon. Oh three

0:29:40.080 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 1>deaths were already three too many, and still no formal

0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:49.160
<v Speaker 1>line of inquiry followed. In hindsight, this inaction is difficult

0:29:49.200 --> 0:29:54.120
<v Speaker 1>to comprehend, but at the time the allegation itself may

0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:56.080
<v Speaker 1>have felt almost unthinkable.

0:29:56.960 --> 0:29:59.760
<v Speaker 4>And you can speak you know hindsight is.

0:29:59.760 --> 0:30:02.520
<v Speaker 1>To a twenty vision right exactly now.

0:30:02.600 --> 0:30:05.360
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, perhaps, I don't know. It's very hard to

0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:07.800
<v Speaker 2>comment on because I don't know. I don't have any

0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:12.160
<v Speaker 2>experience in you know, working in hospitals or being no,

0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:15.120
<v Speaker 2>not any No. I did. My dad's a dock down

0:30:15.120 --> 0:30:16.640
<v Speaker 2>when I was little. I used to go to work

0:30:16.640 --> 0:30:21.200
<v Speaker 2>with him sometimes and like play with the catheter backs.

0:30:23.560 --> 0:30:25.920
<v Speaker 1>It should be a bio. When I was a kid,

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:27.760
<v Speaker 1>I used to go to hospitals with my dad and

0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:32.240
<v Speaker 1>playing with the catheter backs. I guess the idea, well, well,

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:35.160
<v Speaker 1>there were like ones that weren't already installed within someone.

0:30:35.920 --> 0:30:39.240
<v Speaker 2>I would just like, I just want a patient, yeah, patient,

0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:41.200
<v Speaker 2>like you know they hang up.

0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:43.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they were actual person.

0:30:43.800 --> 0:30:47.120
<v Speaker 2>No, they were like in the patient's room, you know,

0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:51.800
<v Speaker 2>they're like, well, yes, but a catheter that's like like

0:30:51.920 --> 0:30:52.200
<v Speaker 2>not the.

0:30:52.520 --> 0:30:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Bag you're playing with a bag.

0:30:54.200 --> 0:30:55.240
<v Speaker 4>I was playing with the Wii bag.

0:30:55.360 --> 0:31:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes. The idea, the idea that's been so deliberate and

0:31:01.840 --> 0:31:05.000
<v Speaker 1>so heinous, could be occurring within a neonatal unit was

0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:09.040
<v Speaker 1>likely beyond what many could accept as possible. Even so,

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.719
<v Speaker 1>it remains deeply troubling that nothing was done at that point.

0:31:13.720 --> 0:31:18.000
<v Speaker 1>The doctor found this exceptionally frustrating. Over the next few months,

0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:21.040
<v Speaker 1>there were three more deaths, and the patterns surrounding Lucy

0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:25.600
<v Speaker 1>being present in all of these deaths now seemed undernighib So.

0:31:25.560 --> 0:31:27.560
<v Speaker 2>She must have been the only one who was president

0:31:27.600 --> 0:31:29.840
<v Speaker 2>at all of them. If immediately this does.

0:31:29.720 --> 0:31:31.520
<v Speaker 1>As she was, she does like I mean, there's other

0:31:31.560 --> 0:31:32.479
<v Speaker 1>people caring.

0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:35.000
<v Speaker 4>She's the only one that's been present at everyone.

0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:37.680
<v Speaker 1>So infan A and their names have always been suppressed.

0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:40.640
<v Speaker 1>But like Infant A, if Infant A was there, then

0:31:40.840 --> 0:31:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was there, and if there was another nurse there,

0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:48.400
<v Speaker 1>that the infant under Lucy's care would suddenly die. So

0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:52.120
<v Speaker 1>this was a pattern that was just emerging. Other consultants

0:31:52.160 --> 0:31:55.800
<v Speaker 1>started to notice too, morbidly. It became a question in

0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:58.920
<v Speaker 1>the office and kind of gallows humor that if a

0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:03.160
<v Speaker 1>baby died Lucy on duty, Oh gosh. It felt like

0:32:03.240 --> 0:32:06.320
<v Speaker 1>a joke, but also not. It seemed as though it

0:32:06.400 --> 0:32:12.920
<v Speaker 1>was just gossip. In February twenty sixteen, another consultant, doctor

0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Ravi Jayream, approached the executive of the hospital, chief Executive

0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Tony Chambers, with the same concerns.

0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Well without having spoken to the first dolf.

0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Well I don't know, but it doesn't seem like it.

0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Tony was dubious and told the doctor that he could

0:32:28.480 --> 0:32:31.400
<v Speaker 1>see how he might view the concerns of his unit

0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:34.400
<v Speaker 1>as an excuse for the before of the poor performance

0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:38.040
<v Speaker 1>of the unit. In a way, Tony Chambers was accusing

0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:42.600
<v Speaker 1>him of trying to use Lucy as a scapegoat. This

0:32:42.720 --> 0:32:47.720
<v Speaker 1>carried serious implications. The NHS is a vast and highly

0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:51.880
<v Speaker 1>bureaucratic system, and over time it appeared that senior leadership

0:32:51.920 --> 0:32:56.200
<v Speaker 1>came to believe there was no immediate cause for alarm,

0:32:56.400 --> 0:33:00.800
<v Speaker 1>that operations should continue as normal. Yet between February and

0:33:00.800 --> 0:33:03.360
<v Speaker 1>we're going to kiss, come.

0:33:03.320 --> 0:33:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Up, kiss my legs, my face is someone else?

0:33:08.480 --> 0:33:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Yet between February and May, two more babies dying and

0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:19.400
<v Speaker 1>several others suffered unexplained collapses. The unit was clearly understrained.

0:33:20.120 --> 0:33:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Mistakes were occurring more regularly, critical procedures were being missed,

0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:27.720
<v Speaker 1>and there was insufficient senior cover on the ship. So

0:33:27.840 --> 0:33:33.640
<v Speaker 1>like senior leaders, like doctors, you know. By this point,

0:33:33.720 --> 0:33:37.960
<v Speaker 1>the atmosphere on the ward had become unbearable, especially for

0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:42.040
<v Speaker 1>the frontline staff who were confronting these events day after

0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:45.440
<v Speaker 1>day and constantly going home with another loss by the

0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:48.520
<v Speaker 1>end of June, a team meeting was held to address

0:33:48.560 --> 0:33:52.040
<v Speaker 1>the vital sorry, to address the rising death toll, and

0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:55.560
<v Speaker 1>to try to restore morale, reinforcing that their work was

0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:58.800
<v Speaker 1>vital and they had to keep going no matter what.

0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:03.760
<v Speaker 1>During the meet, one detail stood out. Lucy let Be

0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:09.759
<v Speaker 1>showed no visible emotion, which struck some as unusual, particularly

0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:11.880
<v Speaker 1>given that she was the only nurse who had been

0:34:11.920 --> 0:34:16.400
<v Speaker 1>present at every fatality. Many would have expected her to

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:19.640
<v Speaker 1>be among the most affected by this. After the meeting,

0:34:19.719 --> 0:34:22.120
<v Speaker 1>the doctor who called the meeting checked in with Lucy

0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:25.879
<v Speaker 1>privately to ask how she was coping. Lucy thanked him

0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:29.840
<v Speaker 1>for his concern, but said she was absolutely fine and

0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:31.560
<v Speaker 1>didn't need to take any time off.

0:34:31.680 --> 0:34:34.520
<v Speaker 2>Well that you know what, even if you've just been

0:34:35.360 --> 0:34:40.000
<v Speaker 2>at work, when you've been on shift when a baby

0:34:40.040 --> 0:34:43.520
<v Speaker 2>has passed, let alone a number of them, that in

0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:46.359
<v Speaker 2>itself should make you not fine, let alone if it's

0:34:46.360 --> 0:34:48.680
<v Speaker 2>been all being investigated and everything like this.

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of a you know that nurses, in particular

0:34:53.160 --> 0:34:57.160
<v Speaker 1>neonatal nurses formed quite a tight bond obviously with the parents,

0:34:57.160 --> 0:34:59.720
<v Speaker 1>and this is a really hard thing. But she returned

0:34:59.719 --> 0:35:03.280
<v Speaker 1>to work the very next day. Wow, So several alarm

0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:11.800
<v Speaker 1>bells continued to Hey, honey, I'm just recording a podcast

0:35:11.840 --> 0:35:15.200
<v Speaker 1>with Georgia. Honey, Oh my god, sorry I was calling

0:35:15.239 --> 0:35:17.680
<v Speaker 1>you back. OK, you're on the podcast right now. Anything

0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:22.200
<v Speaker 1>you want to say? Men, Yeah, I saw you on

0:35:22.280 --> 0:35:45.279
<v Speaker 1>the Jeffrey Epstein email. Okay, that's good Meg everywhere the

0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:49.719
<v Speaker 1>Median Festival shows touring all around Australia. It's that's not

0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:54.000
<v Speaker 1>any good indication of Meg, how quick she is? All

0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:59.160
<v Speaker 1>right after that, after the meeting, a doctor checked in

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:01.560
<v Speaker 1>with a oh, Sorr, I've already been through this. So

0:36:01.800 --> 0:36:04.160
<v Speaker 1>at this time, several alarm bells, I've just been accused

0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:05.000
<v Speaker 1>of something quite.

0:36:04.880 --> 0:36:08.319
<v Speaker 4>Au Do you want it to take this opportunity to.

0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Tell me and the listeners whether you were in the

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:15.600
<v Speaker 2>Jeffery upstairing or not? Why won't you make ygondac I

0:36:15.680 --> 0:36:17.640
<v Speaker 2>am in the emails?

0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:22.000
<v Speaker 1>So so several alarm bells continue to ring for this doctor.

0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:25.520
<v Speaker 1>You should need to take time off, even if you're

0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:27.279
<v Speaker 1>questioning your ability at this time.

0:36:27.920 --> 0:36:28.040
<v Speaker 6>Now.

0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Lucy is somewhat seen as a bit of a closed book.

0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:34.480
<v Speaker 1>She came across as a very guilty person because she

0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:37.640
<v Speaker 1>didn't show any emotion or react in the regular ways

0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:41.800
<v Speaker 1>you would expect in such tragic circumstances. We've kind of

0:36:41.840 --> 0:36:44.759
<v Speaker 1>been through this before, but sometimes people don't behave in

0:36:44.800 --> 0:36:48.200
<v Speaker 1>the way you're expecting them to. The evening, doctor Breery

0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:52.640
<v Speaker 1>contacted the head of nursing for Also that evening. That evening,

0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:55.600
<v Speaker 1>doctor Breery contacted the head of nursing for the Urgent

0:36:55.680 --> 0:36:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Care Division, a woman by the name of Karen Reese.

0:36:59.600 --> 0:37:03.359
<v Speaker 1>He told her plainly that Lucy needed to be immediately

0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:06.840
<v Speaker 1>taken off his unit, that he believed that she was

0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:10.360
<v Speaker 1>responsible and that something needed to change right away.

0:37:10.640 --> 0:37:13.480
<v Speaker 2>So straight up, I think she's responsible, not even there

0:37:13.560 --> 0:37:14.560
<v Speaker 2>might be something going on.

0:37:15.040 --> 0:37:19.360
<v Speaker 1>I think, But once again Karen dismissed the concerns and

0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:22.480
<v Speaker 1>said that Lucy posed no threat to patience and without

0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:25.640
<v Speaker 1>concrete evidence, they would not be able to act.

0:37:25.920 --> 0:37:27.759
<v Speaker 2>And you know what, it is hard like if you

0:37:27.840 --> 0:37:29.520
<v Speaker 2>want to kind of play devil's advocate for all, which

0:37:29.560 --> 0:37:31.360
<v Speaker 2>is the wrong term, because there's you know, there's no

0:37:31.400 --> 0:37:34.120
<v Speaker 2>advocating for something that's done this. But at this point

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.960
<v Speaker 2>they didn't know whether she had or not. You look

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:38.759
<v Speaker 2>at that as someone who's in charge of the unit,

0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:43.200
<v Speaker 2>I suppose and you go, well, we can't assume that

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:48.080
<v Speaker 2>somebody is doing this. So, I mean, I'm saying I

0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:50.840
<v Speaker 2>disagree with it as i'm saying it, But I suppose

0:37:51.000 --> 0:37:54.239
<v Speaker 2>she's probably looking at that and saying, well, you can't

0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:55.960
<v Speaker 2>just tell me that I've got to take someone off.

0:37:56.560 --> 0:37:58.120
<v Speaker 4>We don't have any proof of anything.

0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:01.800
<v Speaker 1>I can't just cantuse someone of multiple murders. No, you

0:38:01.840 --> 0:38:03.839
<v Speaker 1>can't rip someone off the unit and just be like, look,

0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:06.520
<v Speaker 1>these are the reasons why. Because the doctor's suspect.

0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Which is hard to say because now we know that

0:38:08.040 --> 0:38:10.240
<v Speaker 2>obviously she was. You know that that was the case,

0:38:10.320 --> 0:38:13.360
<v Speaker 2>but if it wasn't imagine that story. You know, some

0:38:13.960 --> 0:38:17.120
<v Speaker 2>person has been present for all these tragedies happening, and

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:18.000
<v Speaker 2>we've accused her.

0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:18.600
<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:24.520
<v Speaker 2>That's for any justification of that Karen's decisions in that moment.

0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:26.239
<v Speaker 4>I suppose it was probably.

0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:30.120
<v Speaker 1>That, I guess exactly. Karen then said that if anything

0:38:30.160 --> 0:38:33.160
<v Speaker 1>were to happen with Lucy that she would take personal

0:38:33.239 --> 0:38:35.000
<v Speaker 1>responsibility for it. Wow.

0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:37.680
<v Speaker 2>She backed to that that month far out.

0:38:38.080 --> 0:38:41.719
<v Speaker 1>The next day, another baby collapsed, and Lucy again was

0:38:41.840 --> 0:38:42.239
<v Speaker 1>on ship.

0:38:42.320 --> 0:38:43.040
<v Speaker 2>The next day.

0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Consultants continued to mount pressure against the hospital and finally

0:38:49.120 --> 0:38:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was moved to administrative duties administrative, well administrative. There

0:38:56.000 --> 0:38:58.440
<v Speaker 1>was a huge relief at the time for all of

0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:02.560
<v Speaker 1>the consultants and the nurse. Despite moving her, the hospital

0:39:02.680 --> 0:39:06.320
<v Speaker 1>was not going to take any further action. The hospital

0:39:06.400 --> 0:39:10.080
<v Speaker 1>told the concerned staff that the action they were taking

0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:13.680
<v Speaker 1>was to move her to administrative duties and they had

0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:17.440
<v Speaker 1>done their due diligence. They then asked the staff to

0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:18.960
<v Speaker 1>stop emailing them on the matter.

0:39:19.600 --> 0:39:22.239
<v Speaker 2>So there's multiple people going no, no, more needs be done,

0:39:22.239 --> 0:39:24.319
<v Speaker 2>and they just stop it. With the deaths.

0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:27.359
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I think it was seven consultants. Wow, if

0:39:27.360 --> 0:39:29.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm pulling that name out of my arsenal, but I

0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:33.520
<v Speaker 1>feel like it was about seven your arsenal arsenal. In

0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:37.320
<v Speaker 1>a situation like this, proof is essential, But by this

0:39:37.440 --> 0:39:41.480
<v Speaker 1>point there appeared to be a growing body of circumstantial evidence.

0:39:42.080 --> 0:39:43.880
<v Speaker 1>The pattern could not be ignored.

0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:46.560
<v Speaker 2>And this is the thing we've discussed with this as well.

0:39:47.040 --> 0:39:48.959
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like I say it often when people

0:39:49.120 --> 0:39:52.120
<v Speaker 2>argue about you know, trials that are on at the

0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:53.920
<v Speaker 2>moment and people are following in the medium, People go,

0:39:54.480 --> 0:39:57.720
<v Speaker 2>but it's only circumstantial, yes, but that is still evidence

0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:03.040
<v Speaker 2>circumstantial evidence is that being cases found only circumstantially, so

0:40:03.200 --> 0:40:04.719
<v Speaker 2>you can't discount that either.

0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:06.919
<v Speaker 1>Well, the pattern could not be ignored, and to prevent

0:40:07.080 --> 0:40:10.760
<v Speaker 1>history from repeating itself, the common variable had to be removed,

0:40:10.760 --> 0:40:15.320
<v Speaker 1>and she was. After Lucy was reassigned, the whispering on

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:20.320
<v Speaker 1>the ward reached her. She filed a formal grievance against

0:40:20.320 --> 0:40:22.680
<v Speaker 1>seven consultants I didn't put it out of my asshole there,

0:40:23.480 --> 0:40:27.200
<v Speaker 1>arguing that her removal was the u was her removal

0:40:27.200 --> 0:40:32.360
<v Speaker 1>from the unit was based on unsubstantiated accusations. In her complaint,

0:40:32.480 --> 0:40:35.399
<v Speaker 1>Lucy said that after returning from annual leave, she felt

0:40:35.520 --> 0:40:39.759
<v Speaker 1>excluded and professionally devastated by a decision in which she

0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:42.920
<v Speaker 1>had no say. While she acknowledged that staff had the

0:40:43.040 --> 0:40:46.560
<v Speaker 1>right to raise concerns, she said that those concerns did

0:40:46.680 --> 0:40:49.480
<v Speaker 1>not need to be discussed openly in a way that

0:40:49.640 --> 0:40:53.760
<v Speaker 1>caused her significant distress. Behind her back, she was labeled

0:40:54.040 --> 0:40:57.680
<v Speaker 1>the angel of death. How awful, a term that eventually

0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:02.440
<v Speaker 1>it's awful, a term that eventually made its way to her.

0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:06.200
<v Speaker 1>By this stage, many consultants had turned against her, and

0:41:06.280 --> 0:41:10.520
<v Speaker 1>the pressure continued to intensify. Numerous disparaging comments were made

0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:13.880
<v Speaker 1>about Lucy in private, many of which later reached her.

0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Lucy maintained that she remained Lucy maintained that she remained

0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:23.440
<v Speaker 1>professional throughout her reassignment, but said the isolation and secrecy

0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:26.480
<v Speaker 1>surrounding the situation began to take a toll on her

0:41:26.520 --> 0:41:29.719
<v Speaker 1>mental health and her confidence. She made it clear that

0:41:29.800 --> 0:41:32.319
<v Speaker 1>she wanted to return to the unit where she had

0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:36.920
<v Speaker 1>trained and begun her career. Now, when Lucy's complaint is received,

0:41:36.960 --> 0:41:40.880
<v Speaker 1>senior management takes it very seriously. Two of the consultants

0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:44.040
<v Speaker 1>must go through mediation with her, and all seven of

0:41:44.080 --> 0:41:47.200
<v Speaker 1>the accused consultants are forced to write an apology letter

0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:49.960
<v Speaker 1>to Lucy let be or that they would be reported

0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:53.840
<v Speaker 1>to the General Medical Council. The consultants believed that this

0:41:54.200 --> 0:41:58.719
<v Speaker 1>was a patient safety violation, but they needed proof, so

0:41:58.880 --> 0:42:02.759
<v Speaker 1>Lucy herself was a safety violation. All they saw was

0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:05.719
<v Speaker 1>a failing ward based on data. So that's kind of

0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:08.160
<v Speaker 1>what the you know, the senior management, it's just darted

0:42:08.239 --> 0:42:10.520
<v Speaker 1>like this is what we're seeing right now. They did

0:42:10.680 --> 0:42:13.120
<v Speaker 1>have clear evidence that Lucy had been treated unfairly in

0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:15.759
<v Speaker 1>the workplace, so they needed to act on that first.

0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:17.400
<v Speaker 1>This is just like it's just they're treating it like

0:42:17.440 --> 0:42:19.880
<v Speaker 1>any other company. It's just like that HR thing instead

0:42:19.920 --> 0:42:23.360
<v Speaker 1>of like infants are dying. It seemed like the easiest

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:25.560
<v Speaker 1>thing to be able to deal with. The unit was

0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:28.960
<v Speaker 1>more and more understaffed. It was like they didn't have

0:42:29.040 --> 0:42:32.320
<v Speaker 1>the time to get the evidence once another tragedy occurred,

0:42:32.360 --> 0:42:34.480
<v Speaker 1>so they just had to move on so quickly that

0:42:34.560 --> 0:42:38.680
<v Speaker 1>were too understart to deal with it. All. Seven consultants

0:42:38.760 --> 0:42:42.400
<v Speaker 1>ended up sending Lucy an apology letter. However, they stated

0:42:42.480 --> 0:42:45.000
<v Speaker 1>this came from a fear of the most important thing,

0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:51.400
<v Speaker 1>the patient's safety. The consultants themselves were extremely irritated that

0:42:51.520 --> 0:42:53.719
<v Speaker 1>they had to go through with writing an apology letter

0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:56.960
<v Speaker 1>to someone they believed was guilty. And it does not

0:42:57.080 --> 0:43:00.480
<v Speaker 1>go unnoticed that while Lucy was on a ministry duties,

0:43:00.600 --> 0:43:05.360
<v Speaker 1>can you guess deaths? Yeah, these sudden deaths and collapses

0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:10.560
<v Speaker 1>seemed to disappear, and so as a result, the consultants

0:43:10.680 --> 0:43:14.200
<v Speaker 1>did not drop the issue and continually asked for a

0:43:14.360 --> 0:43:19.279
<v Speaker 1>formal investigation. Eventually, the hospital caved in.

0:43:21.920 --> 0:43:24.319
<v Speaker 2>We're talking about children dying and.

0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Asked the Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health to

0:43:28.239 --> 0:43:32.359
<v Speaker 1>conduct a formal review only after all of this, all

0:43:32.400 --> 0:43:36.279
<v Speaker 1>of this, Jesus. The review found that the hospital may

0:43:36.320 --> 0:43:39.600
<v Speaker 1>have downplayed the full extent of the concerns raised about

0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Lucy let Be, but because of how badly the hospital

0:43:42.680 --> 0:43:46.239
<v Speaker 1>was being managed due to staffing issues and resources. There

0:43:46.320 --> 0:43:48.439
<v Speaker 1>was no evidence in the cause of death in any

0:43:48.560 --> 0:43:53.879
<v Speaker 1>of the cases. So this is extremely frustrating for all

0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 1>of the consultants. On one hand, their fears were slightly validated,

0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:00.120
<v Speaker 1>but on the other it looked as if Lucie he

0:44:00.440 --> 0:44:02.920
<v Speaker 1>would be getting away with something they believed she was

0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:03.800
<v Speaker 1>very guilty of.

0:44:05.280 --> 0:44:08.719
<v Speaker 2>The review sorry, so was it kind of saying the

0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:13.160
<v Speaker 2>causes of death aren't the same in each of the cases,

0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:16.080
<v Speaker 2>so we can't possibly say that they're linked.

0:44:16.440 --> 0:44:20.480
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, but there are definitely issues right here. Yeah, okay,

0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:22.560
<v Speaker 1>but it could be because of resourcing, It could because

0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:23.160
<v Speaker 1>the understuff.

0:44:23.320 --> 0:44:25.360
<v Speaker 4>Yes, yeah, there's nothing enough to show that it was

0:44:25.400 --> 0:44:25.840
<v Speaker 4>a person.

0:44:26.160 --> 0:44:29.400
<v Speaker 1>I think more that critical procedures are being missed right.

0:44:30.960 --> 0:44:35.480
<v Speaker 1>The review suggested an external, independent review should be carried

0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:38.440
<v Speaker 1>out for each of the deaths. I was surprised that

0:44:38.520 --> 0:44:41.479
<v Speaker 1>this isn't something that actually already happens with a death,

0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:43.880
<v Speaker 1>but I guess this goes back to the running of

0:44:44.000 --> 0:44:47.160
<v Speaker 1>the hospital and how the NHS was performing at the time.

0:44:48.280 --> 0:44:51.160
<v Speaker 1>As a result of the review, the hospital decided that

0:44:51.239 --> 0:44:55.720
<v Speaker 1>they would stop accepting any babies under thirty two weeks

0:44:55.800 --> 0:44:59.240
<v Speaker 1>of gestation until management was properly sorted out.

0:44:59.280 --> 0:45:04.279
<v Speaker 2>What happens to those premieres. Then, Oh god, this was.

0:45:04.280 --> 0:45:08.160
<v Speaker 1>A huge blow to the consultants. The senior management were

0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:11.040
<v Speaker 1>now utterly convinced that the tragedies were in fact caused

0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:14.800
<v Speaker 1>by Paul management and not by something more sinister at play.

0:45:15.560 --> 0:45:19.560
<v Speaker 1>This fed into exactly what Tony Chambers thought earlier. He

0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:22.839
<v Speaker 1>believed that Lucy was a convenient person to pin all

0:45:22.920 --> 0:45:23.320
<v Speaker 1>of this on.

0:45:24.600 --> 0:45:26.759
<v Speaker 2>They saw the data of who was working on which

0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:29.319
<v Speaker 2>she saw that there was a common denominator and went, ah,

0:45:29.440 --> 0:45:30.360
<v Speaker 2>we can pin it on her.

0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:43.800
<v Speaker 1>You can put it on her. Oh. Because of the review,

0:45:43.880 --> 0:45:46.239
<v Speaker 1>the hospital management decided not to go through with the

0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:52.280
<v Speaker 1>external reviews. As a result, the consultants in April twenty

0:45:52.560 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 1>seventeen formally reported their fears to the police.

0:45:56.400 --> 0:45:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Well they had to go.

0:45:58.080 --> 0:46:00.239
<v Speaker 1>We've got to do it, because go to police far

0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:02.720
<v Speaker 1>the only way they're going to get listened to. Chester

0:46:02.840 --> 0:46:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Police launched a formal investigation and invited Dr Dewey Evans,

0:46:07.480 --> 0:46:12.239
<v Speaker 1>a retired pediatrician. Now, okay, I should make it clear

0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:14.239
<v Speaker 1>here that he had heard what was happening and he

0:46:14.400 --> 0:46:16.759
<v Speaker 1>volunteered his service. Okay, he was a retired person. But

0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:18.160
<v Speaker 1>actually it'll do it on behalf of the.

0:46:18.160 --> 0:46:21.719
<v Speaker 2>Police, right, Okay, as someone who understands the industry. Yes,

0:46:22.040 --> 0:46:23.879
<v Speaker 2>police don't understand how that all works.

0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:25.719
<v Speaker 1>He was watching the Lucy let me think from afar

0:46:25.840 --> 0:46:28.960
<v Speaker 1>and when I want to Yeah, he made it very

0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:31.120
<v Speaker 1>clear that he didn't want to be made aware of

0:46:31.280 --> 0:46:34.640
<v Speaker 1>any police or hospital's feelings that may sway.

0:46:35.280 --> 0:46:37.200
<v Speaker 4>You know, he's such a doctor.

0:46:39.719 --> 0:46:41.560
<v Speaker 1>And his daughter was just playing with the catheter bags

0:46:41.600 --> 0:46:45.800
<v Speaker 1>and the patients in the hallway, Doctor Loeuve. Dr Evans

0:46:45.920 --> 0:46:49.160
<v Speaker 1>was given a record, a record, sorry, of thirty babies.

0:46:50.000 --> 0:46:51.800
<v Speaker 1>For half of them he was able to find a

0:46:52.000 --> 0:46:56.239
<v Speaker 1>very clear explanation of their death due to infections or hemorrhages.

0:46:56.960 --> 0:47:00.000
<v Speaker 1>For fifteen of these he could not provide an explanation

0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:05.000
<v Speaker 1>had account so half so those parents.

0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:11.120
<v Speaker 2>There's fifteen families whose babies have died and they haven't

0:47:11.120 --> 0:47:12.120
<v Speaker 2>even been told why.

0:47:12.640 --> 0:47:17.279
<v Speaker 1>Well. This was of of thirteen. This was of the

0:47:17.400 --> 0:47:20.480
<v Speaker 1>thirty that were given, So there's way more than that. Yeah,

0:47:21.360 --> 0:47:25.040
<v Speaker 1>it was a suddenness of the deterioration that didn't add up.

0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:27.680
<v Speaker 1>He noticed in some of the cases the baby showed

0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:31.719
<v Speaker 1>signs of air embolisms in their system, which to him,

0:47:32.200 --> 0:47:34.319
<v Speaker 1>he believed that this could not be accidental.

0:47:34.600 --> 0:47:37.760
<v Speaker 2>Is that like a bubble like, yeah, injected with air.

0:47:37.760 --> 0:47:40.239
<v Speaker 1>So air would have had to be injected into the

0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:44.640
<v Speaker 1>god or god or god. One isolated case might not

0:47:44.800 --> 0:47:48.360
<v Speaker 1>have really concerned him, maybe even too, but several babies

0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:52.200
<v Speaker 1>showed the same patterns, so this became really concerning to him.

0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:56.120
<v Speaker 1>Some of these babies also showed signs of being overfed

0:47:56.719 --> 0:47:59.120
<v Speaker 1>with a which a premature baby could not handle. So

0:47:59.200 --> 0:47:59.680
<v Speaker 1>they would have a.

0:47:59.719 --> 0:48:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Certain exactly what they know what to do and not

0:48:02.239 --> 0:48:02.640
<v Speaker 2>to do that.

0:48:04.280 --> 0:48:06.800
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, so you know, so certain baby would have like

0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:10.239
<v Speaker 1>this amount of milk and then overfared it would throw

0:48:10.360 --> 0:48:12.400
<v Speaker 1>up and everything. So it was just like this cycle

0:48:12.600 --> 0:48:15.720
<v Speaker 1>is gone. This isn't right. So there's clearly a problem.

0:48:16.160 --> 0:48:18.560
<v Speaker 1>But was their intent? That's what they had to find out.

0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:21.920
<v Speaker 1>He also found signs of direct trauma in some of

0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:24.080
<v Speaker 1>these cases, bleeding around the mouth or the back of

0:48:24.120 --> 0:48:26.520
<v Speaker 1>their throats, which would be caused by a breathing tube

0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:32.200
<v Speaker 1>being forcibly inserted or removed, causing catastrophic bleeding. Now, these

0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:36.280
<v Speaker 1>findings were extremely alarming, not just to him, but also

0:48:36.440 --> 0:48:38.160
<v Speaker 1>to the police as well. So he took this to

0:48:38.160 --> 0:48:39.719
<v Speaker 1>the police and they went, oh, we have to look

0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:43.600
<v Speaker 1>into this. It was enough to pull even more case files,

0:48:43.960 --> 0:48:48.000
<v Speaker 1>particularly a pair of twins who both deteriorate rapidly after

0:48:48.080 --> 0:48:52.440
<v Speaker 1>their blood sugar levels dropped. At first, it looked ordinary,

0:48:52.719 --> 0:48:55.560
<v Speaker 1>which is why it was missed, but when their blood

0:48:55.680 --> 0:49:00.279
<v Speaker 1>was tested, they found a high level of insulin kind

0:49:00.360 --> 0:49:04.520
<v Speaker 1>that could only be present if it were administered externally.

0:49:05.480 --> 0:49:08.560
<v Speaker 1>They knew this because when insulin is produced naturally, the

0:49:08.640 --> 0:49:13.480
<v Speaker 1>body also produces see peptide in equal If there is

0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:17.600
<v Speaker 1>far more insulin than see peptide, then it proves that

0:49:17.640 --> 0:49:22.680
<v Speaker 1>the insulin was actually administered externally. For doctor Evans, this

0:49:22.880 --> 0:49:24.879
<v Speaker 1>was the most damning evidence so far.

0:49:25.239 --> 0:49:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Both twins.

0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:33.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, police now had seventeen unexplained depths and sixteen suspicious collapses.

0:49:34.320 --> 0:49:37.279
<v Speaker 2>And sorry to be ignorant, but collapses means like a

0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:38.680
<v Speaker 2>collapse in their condition.

0:49:39.080 --> 0:49:42.680
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, yeah, not necessarily dying, but yeah, but like

0:49:42.800 --> 0:49:46.320
<v Speaker 1>deterioration that went crazy and it was ef an alarm

0:49:46.400 --> 0:49:48.680
<v Speaker 1>went off, and sometimes you know, it was explained later.

0:49:48.760 --> 0:49:51.439
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes an alarm was turned off weirdly in the room,

0:49:51.920 --> 0:49:54.000
<v Speaker 1>but sometimes you know, yeah, yeah, so this was this was,

0:49:54.239 --> 0:49:56.840
<v Speaker 1>this was the thing. But it's actually the two insulin

0:49:56.960 --> 0:49:59.879
<v Speaker 1>cases where they can pinpoint who was there for those

0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:03.600
<v Speaker 1>two tragedies. Oh wow, and no surprises here, it was

0:50:03.680 --> 0:50:06.160
<v Speaker 1>Lucy let Be, who was a common factor in both

0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:11.120
<v Speaker 1>of these depths. Now, the insulent collapse occurs within minutes,

0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:14.920
<v Speaker 1>so whoever did it must have been on shift. And

0:50:15.239 --> 0:50:17.919
<v Speaker 1>of course they can pull the rosters or for UK people,

0:50:18.080 --> 0:50:21.640
<v Speaker 1>rotors what they call them rotors. Really, yeah, what does

0:50:21.680 --> 0:50:25.520
<v Speaker 1>that mean? It's just the same, just rotor, And they

0:50:25.560 --> 0:50:28.640
<v Speaker 1>can see that Lucy was there every time. They then

0:50:28.719 --> 0:50:31.480
<v Speaker 1>crossed reference to the other incidents and the same pattern

0:50:31.560 --> 0:50:34.440
<v Speaker 1>appeared by the force case. By the fourth case it

0:50:34.560 --> 0:50:37.919
<v Speaker 1>was proven, and by the last case it was absolute.

0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:43.960
<v Speaker 1>So the police now had to arrest Lucy Letbe. On

0:50:44.120 --> 0:50:49.120
<v Speaker 1>the third of July twenty eighteen, police knocked on Lucy's door.

0:50:49.080 --> 0:50:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Three years after this or started.

0:50:51.040 --> 0:50:55.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah God, who answered and was extremely calm, not panicking

0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:58.440
<v Speaker 1>at all, and did not protest her innocence. As she

0:50:58.600 --> 0:51:01.040
<v Speaker 1>was taken to the car, she polited asked if she

0:51:01.120 --> 0:51:03.680
<v Speaker 1>can have her seat move forward as she recently had

0:51:03.840 --> 0:51:08.560
<v Speaker 1>knee surgery. Even throughout the interviews, detectives all said she

0:51:08.640 --> 0:51:13.440
<v Speaker 1>didn't panic at all and was really cooperative the fuck. Meanwhile,

0:51:13.600 --> 0:51:17.759
<v Speaker 1>police began searching Lucy's home. Her bedroom was decorated in

0:51:17.840 --> 0:51:21.320
<v Speaker 1>pink and white, with teddy de bears on display, glittery

0:51:21.400 --> 0:51:24.080
<v Speaker 1>photo frames, slogan artwork, and fairy lights.

0:51:24.280 --> 0:51:26.799
<v Speaker 4>At the age of thirty three, yeah by.

0:51:26.719 --> 0:51:30.759
<v Speaker 1>All appearance as an ordinary, unremarkable room. Many reports later

0:51:30.840 --> 0:51:35.360
<v Speaker 1>focused heavily on the teddy bears and the seemingly juvenile decorps,

0:51:35.920 --> 0:51:38.400
<v Speaker 1>but it's difficult to see how that alone would ever

0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:41.240
<v Speaker 1>prove anything. Of course, it was certainly not the smoking

0:51:41.320 --> 0:51:45.080
<v Speaker 1>gun investigators were looking for. What they did find, however,

0:51:46.320 --> 0:51:50.399
<v Speaker 1>was much more significant. Hidden under a bed were two

0:51:50.560 --> 0:51:55.440
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty seven confidential hospital documents, including handover sheets,

0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:57.520
<v Speaker 1>medical notes, and oxygen reports.

0:51:57.600 --> 0:51:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I don't remember this detail.

0:51:59.440 --> 0:52:02.319
<v Speaker 1>Eight of those documents related directly to babies who had

0:52:02.400 --> 0:52:07.480
<v Speaker 1>died or suffered unexplained collapses. Police also recovered a series

0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:10.080
<v Speaker 1>of post it notes and a diary entry that read

0:52:10.560 --> 0:52:13.320
<v Speaker 1>I killed them. Oh my god, I did this. I

0:52:13.600 --> 0:52:14.280
<v Speaker 1>am evil?

0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:15.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Now these notes looked like confessions. Others were questioning her guilt.

0:52:21.040 --> 0:52:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Was this me? Did I do this? Am I evil?

0:52:24.120 --> 0:52:26.920
<v Speaker 1>Lucy explained later that she was surprised to see the police.

0:52:27.400 --> 0:52:30.080
<v Speaker 1>That she was kind of sorry that she was surprised

0:52:30.120 --> 0:52:32.520
<v Speaker 1>to see the police, but she kind of was expecting

0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:35.360
<v Speaker 1>it after all the investigations. At the same point, she

0:52:35.520 --> 0:52:38.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of known the investigations and whispers were happening about

0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:40.600
<v Speaker 1>her at the time. She to, you know, she say,

0:52:40.600 --> 0:52:42.799
<v Speaker 1>she's talking about it. She was talking about it. She'd

0:52:42.800 --> 0:52:44.719
<v Speaker 1>been dull, she was talking. She was talking about it

0:52:44.760 --> 0:52:46.920
<v Speaker 1>with her family, talking about with her friends. They were

0:52:47.000 --> 0:52:51.520
<v Speaker 1>just surprised when she was actually arrested in isolation. The

0:52:51.600 --> 0:52:55.080
<v Speaker 1>body cam footage showed a cold, detached, and unemotional person.

0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:59.920
<v Speaker 1>And for the documents under her bed, they do look suspicious,

0:53:00.520 --> 0:53:05.919
<v Speaker 1>almost like trophies, But she explained that these documents maybe

0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:08.040
<v Speaker 1>were kept in her pockets and she kept throwing them

0:53:08.120 --> 0:53:10.840
<v Speaker 1>under the bed after her shift. She had a shredder

0:53:10.960 --> 0:53:13.880
<v Speaker 1>at home and was going to shred them, but she

0:53:14.000 --> 0:53:17.000
<v Speaker 1>hadn't got around to it. At that point, she hadn't

0:53:17.000 --> 0:53:18.799
<v Speaker 1>got around to that batch at that stage. I don't

0:53:18.840 --> 0:53:20.960
<v Speaker 1>know if that's a thing. I don't know if nurses do.

0:53:22.239 --> 0:53:23.800
<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, as I wouldn't think so.

0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:26.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure you can't take any dog like hotel

0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:29.160
<v Speaker 2>hotel hospital documents home from the hospital.

0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:31.359
<v Speaker 1>I know, would you ever be doing well as a nurse.

0:53:31.360 --> 0:53:32.759
<v Speaker 1>I imagine you're on your feet all the time. You

0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:34.239
<v Speaker 1>could just put something in a pocket. Told them, I

0:53:34.280 --> 0:53:35.479
<v Speaker 1>don't know, maybe it could happen.

0:53:36.560 --> 0:53:38.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I feel like even if you've done that,

0:53:38.200 --> 0:53:40.000
<v Speaker 2>you take it back to work the next day, even

0:53:40.040 --> 0:53:40.840
<v Speaker 2>if it's to be shredded.

0:53:40.920 --> 0:53:43.680
<v Speaker 4>She read it there. Yeah, it's not your document to happen.

0:53:43.840 --> 0:53:47.360
<v Speaker 1>That's true. For the diaries, she explained that she was

0:53:47.560 --> 0:53:50.520
<v Speaker 1>in a really deep depression after all the rumors, whispers,

0:53:50.560 --> 0:53:54.040
<v Speaker 1>and investigation. Her GP advised her that she should keep

0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:57.360
<v Speaker 1>a journal of what was happening, not because she'd intentionally

0:53:57.480 --> 0:54:00.960
<v Speaker 1>done anything wrong, but because she could keep track of

0:54:01.160 --> 0:54:04.680
<v Speaker 1>her emotions. She had been made to feel inadequate as

0:54:04.719 --> 0:54:09.160
<v Speaker 1>a nurse, and the constant, constant, the constant whispers behind

0:54:09.239 --> 0:54:13.640
<v Speaker 1>her back made her feel more and more isolated, as

0:54:13.680 --> 0:54:16.920
<v Speaker 1>well as the notes and documents. Police also found that

0:54:17.040 --> 0:54:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Lucy had searched for the parents of the babies online

0:54:21.000 --> 0:54:24.799
<v Speaker 1>thirty one times. Oh my god, sometimes immediately after their

0:54:24.880 --> 0:54:29.440
<v Speaker 1>death or even on anniversaries of their death. Again, this

0:54:29.600 --> 0:54:31.760
<v Speaker 1>can be argued that she was feeling an immense amount

0:54:31.800 --> 0:54:35.120
<v Speaker 1>of guilt. It could be normal behavior as nurses form

0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:37.560
<v Speaker 1>a type bond with her parents and want to check in.

0:54:38.760 --> 0:54:42.239
<v Speaker 1>Another weird thing, she had written bereavement cards. That's not

0:54:42.320 --> 0:54:45.080
<v Speaker 1>weird in itself, but she had actually taken photos of

0:54:45.160 --> 0:54:47.719
<v Speaker 1>all the bereavement cards that she wrote, and she had

0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:52.640
<v Speaker 1>copies of them. She kept them as a trophy. Oh now, police, sorry, now, now,

0:54:52.680 --> 0:54:55.000
<v Speaker 1>the police did not believe that Lucy fit the profile

0:54:55.120 --> 0:54:59.600
<v Speaker 1>of a killer. You know, someone who will commit these

0:54:59.680 --> 0:55:03.160
<v Speaker 1>Heinais crimes. Either the police had it wrong or evil

0:55:03.560 --> 0:55:08.719
<v Speaker 1>can truly exist in places you've never expected. She's routinely

0:55:08.800 --> 0:55:12.280
<v Speaker 1>described in the media as the vanilla killer. Oh, because

0:55:12.320 --> 0:55:14.040
<v Speaker 1>of how ordinary and boring she is.

0:55:15.080 --> 0:55:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I hate that.

0:55:15.840 --> 0:55:16.200
<v Speaker 1>I hate that.

0:55:16.320 --> 0:55:18.520
<v Speaker 2>I hate that. Just that is so awful to the

0:55:19.360 --> 0:55:23.120
<v Speaker 2>parents and life loved ones of victims. Just to be like, oh,

0:55:23.239 --> 0:55:26.800
<v Speaker 2>she's boring, born, I'm prittish, bored, like there's nothing boring

0:55:26.920 --> 0:55:30.320
<v Speaker 2>about these people's lives and what has happened to them exactly.

0:55:30.840 --> 0:55:34.160
<v Speaker 1>By this point police were convinced that Lucy was guilty.

0:55:34.320 --> 0:55:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:38.280
<v Speaker 1>Colleagues and even parents cited Lucy being by the bedside

0:55:38.320 --> 0:55:42.520
<v Speaker 1>of these babies just before incidents occurred. This was really

0:55:42.640 --> 0:55:46.840
<v Speaker 1>damning for Lucy. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence.

0:55:48.000 --> 0:55:51.479
<v Speaker 1>On the tenth of October twenty twenty two, Lucy's trial

0:55:51.520 --> 0:55:55.640
<v Speaker 1>began and went for ten months what at the Manchester

0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:57.799
<v Speaker 1>Crown Court and god, that's a.

0:55:57.800 --> 0:56:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Long time after so she was rested in twenty fifth

0:56:01.680 --> 0:56:05.160
<v Speaker 2>eighteen and the trial was four years later far out.

0:56:06.239 --> 0:56:08.560
<v Speaker 1>It was one of the longest trials in British history.

0:56:10.040 --> 0:56:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was accused of murdering seven babies and the attempt

0:56:13.480 --> 0:56:18.680
<v Speaker 1>to murder of fifteen Ludy. Lucy pled not guilty to

0:56:18.760 --> 0:56:23.160
<v Speaker 1>the chargers. The prosecution's evidence centered around the blood tests

0:56:23.560 --> 0:56:30.840
<v Speaker 1>results showing insulent please insulin are poising into infants. Everything

0:56:30.920 --> 0:56:33.520
<v Speaker 1>else they argued was supporting the fact that she was guilty.

0:56:34.040 --> 0:56:37.080
<v Speaker 1>The names were anonymous in the case. The infant's names

0:56:37.120 --> 0:56:40.320
<v Speaker 1>were assigned a letter from A to q so Q,

0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:43.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh my God. The first case was that of A

0:56:44.320 --> 0:56:48.480
<v Speaker 1>and B born prematurely who were progressing well. Lucy was

0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:53.040
<v Speaker 1>assigned the designated nurse for Child A. Things deteriorated in

0:56:53.120 --> 0:56:56.839
<v Speaker 1>a couple of hours the shift, so the nurse who

0:56:56.920 --> 0:57:00.640
<v Speaker 1>had the shift of Child A had passed. Child BE

0:57:00.880 --> 0:57:03.560
<v Speaker 1>also passed in a similar way after an oxygen tube

0:57:03.760 --> 0:57:07.000
<v Speaker 1>was dislodged. Now I won't go to any more details

0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:09.759
<v Speaker 1>of the babies here. It is horrific and even if accidental,

0:57:10.200 --> 0:57:12.239
<v Speaker 1>not something that we ever need to go into. I've

0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:15.279
<v Speaker 1>done this research so you don't have to. Each child

0:57:15.400 --> 0:57:18.600
<v Speaker 1>seemed to be progressing well, and then in each case

0:57:18.760 --> 0:57:21.920
<v Speaker 1>there seemed to be a change in progress. Child G

0:57:22.280 --> 0:57:25.760
<v Speaker 1>had been overfed. Lucy could have snuck in with her

0:57:25.840 --> 0:57:28.640
<v Speaker 1>monitor being turned off and not logged the other feed.

0:57:28.920 --> 0:57:31.320
<v Speaker 1>The details go on and on. So what really had happened?

0:57:31.520 --> 0:57:33.880
<v Speaker 1>It was all circumstantial, really apart from the and.

0:57:34.480 --> 0:57:36.880
<v Speaker 2>It was not the same cause of death in each exactly.

0:57:37.040 --> 0:57:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was overfeeding, there was all this other stuff,

0:57:38.960 --> 0:57:43.000
<v Speaker 1>but it was also constantial. Basically, Lucy was the only

0:57:43.160 --> 0:57:46.880
<v Speaker 1>one of two nurses on duty on several occasions. Lucy

0:57:47.040 --> 0:57:51.280
<v Speaker 1>was a common denominator in these In the incidents. Both

0:57:51.360 --> 0:57:55.120
<v Speaker 1>prosecution and defense as well as Lucy, agreed the insulin

0:57:55.280 --> 0:57:58.480
<v Speaker 1>levels found in the infants could not have been possible

0:57:59.480 --> 0:58:03.560
<v Speaker 1>without the sea peptide rising too, But all Lucy said

0:58:03.680 --> 0:58:06.720
<v Speaker 1>in her defense was all I can do is speak

0:58:06.760 --> 0:58:11.040
<v Speaker 1>for myself and that I did not do this bravely.

0:58:11.800 --> 0:58:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Some of the parents testified in court, Oh God, those

0:58:14.560 --> 0:58:18.000
<v Speaker 1>poor people. There was also testimony from another nurse who

0:58:18.080 --> 0:58:20.360
<v Speaker 1>found Lucy watching and doing nothing to help in a

0:58:20.440 --> 0:58:25.920
<v Speaker 1>clear emergency. Over the ten months each case was discussed

0:58:26.000 --> 0:58:28.720
<v Speaker 1>a to Q, the prosecution was able to show a

0:58:28.800 --> 0:58:32.120
<v Speaker 1>graph showing that each time a child collapsed or died,

0:58:32.320 --> 0:58:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was there. The pattern was far too consistent for

0:58:36.200 --> 0:58:42.320
<v Speaker 1>it to be a coincidence, every single one. The prosecution

0:58:42.520 --> 0:58:45.040
<v Speaker 1>was very careful not to claim that this was a

0:58:45.920 --> 0:58:49.800
<v Speaker 1>statistical proof of her guilt, but it was one brick

0:58:49.840 --> 0:58:52.960
<v Speaker 1>in the wall, although a very heavy one. The defense team,

0:58:53.000 --> 0:58:56.080
<v Speaker 1>of course scrutinizes evidence, but not in a way that

0:58:56.200 --> 0:59:00.800
<v Speaker 1>seemed to sway the jury. While this was reallyive material,

0:59:00.840 --> 0:59:03.640
<v Speaker 1>a group of setians stated after the trial that the

0:59:03.760 --> 0:59:08.240
<v Speaker 1>data was essentially meaningless and flawed. They explained that the

0:59:08.360 --> 0:59:12.000
<v Speaker 1>chart didn't control for basic variables, which child was the

0:59:12.080 --> 0:59:15.920
<v Speaker 1>sickest on which days, which nurses were actually assigned to,

0:59:15.960 --> 0:59:19.640
<v Speaker 1>which infants, which nurses regularly worked with the sickest children,

0:59:19.680 --> 0:59:23.280
<v Speaker 1>and did Lucy simply just work more shifts. If you

0:59:23.440 --> 0:59:27.200
<v Speaker 1>didn't control for those factors, then the chart is very misleading.

0:59:27.880 --> 0:59:31.920
<v Speaker 1>It also shows a very small amount of data. In

0:59:32.080 --> 0:59:34.400
<v Speaker 1>other words, they went with the assumption that Lucy was

0:59:34.440 --> 0:59:38.040
<v Speaker 1>guilty and then leant into evidence to support that theory.

0:59:39.320 --> 0:59:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Lucy spent fourteen days under cross examination. She was calm,

0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:48.640
<v Speaker 1>maintained her innocence, softly spoken, and rarely showed any emotion.

0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Her core defense was that she didn't do anything wrong

0:59:52.680 --> 0:59:55.280
<v Speaker 1>and she was being used as a scapegoat for the

0:59:55.400 --> 0:59:59.200
<v Speaker 1>wider failings within the ward. When she was pressed for

0:59:59.360 --> 1:00:03.560
<v Speaker 1>specific she struggled to answer any kinds of questions or elaborate.

1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:06.760
<v Speaker 1>You would expect her to have some kind of explanation

1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:09.040
<v Speaker 1>in her defense, especially.

1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:15.120
<v Speaker 2>After four years of standing accused of something. If you

1:00:15.240 --> 1:00:19.000
<v Speaker 2>really really didn't do it, you think you'd have a

1:00:19.040 --> 1:00:22.640
<v Speaker 2>pretty clear argument as to what you think happened exactly.

1:00:23.000 --> 1:00:26.200
<v Speaker 1>You would. Yeah, it was not persuasive enough for the jury.

1:00:26.960 --> 1:00:29.400
<v Speaker 1>She said that it was all due to understaffing, a

1:00:29.440 --> 1:00:33.720
<v Speaker 1>stressful environment, under resourcing which led to shortcuts being taken

1:00:33.840 --> 1:00:38.120
<v Speaker 1>every time in medical procedures. This almost cemented her guilt.

1:00:38.960 --> 1:00:42.600
<v Speaker 1>After ten months, the trial ended on the tenth of

1:00:42.680 --> 1:00:47.280
<v Speaker 1>July twenty twenty three. The jury began their deliberations after

1:00:47.360 --> 1:00:51.680
<v Speaker 1>twenty two days. They returned with a vertict twenty two day,

1:00:52.040 --> 1:00:55.400
<v Speaker 1>on top of the ten months same jury throughout. On

1:00:55.640 --> 1:00:59.600
<v Speaker 1>August thirteenth, twenty twenty three, the jury found her guilty

1:01:00.080 --> 1:01:03.880
<v Speaker 1>of seven murders and six attempted murders. Three of the

1:01:04.000 --> 1:01:07.680
<v Speaker 1>counts were left undecided. Lucy was sentenced on the twenty

1:01:07.720 --> 1:01:11.560
<v Speaker 1>first of August twenty twenty three to fourteen life orders.

1:01:13.120 --> 1:01:16.840
<v Speaker 1>She's only the fourth woman in British history to receive

1:01:16.960 --> 1:01:19.920
<v Speaker 1>that kind of sentence, along with Myra Hinley and Rosemary

1:01:19.960 --> 1:01:26.360
<v Speaker 1>west Wow. The court accepted her behavior as deliberate. This

1:01:26.560 --> 1:01:29.320
<v Speaker 1>didn't bring back the losses, of course it didn't, And

1:01:29.440 --> 1:01:33.520
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't a satisfying ending for anyone, because what was

1:01:33.840 --> 1:01:38.120
<v Speaker 1>the fucking motive? Yes, birthdays never reached first steps, that

1:01:38.240 --> 1:01:42.320
<v Speaker 1>never happened. Lucy refused to attend the verdict for her sentencing.

1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:46.840
<v Speaker 1>She did not have to sit through witness statements. Lucy

1:01:47.080 --> 1:01:51.120
<v Speaker 1>argued that she had PTSD from the trial. She also

1:01:51.240 --> 1:01:54.160
<v Speaker 1>claimed that she suffered from anxiety so bad that she

1:01:54.200 --> 1:01:57.800
<v Speaker 1>couldn't bear it anymore. The families ended up calling Lucy

1:01:57.880 --> 1:02:03.640
<v Speaker 1>cowardly for not coming should take some accountability. The prosecution

1:02:04.280 --> 1:02:07.480
<v Speaker 1>did not have to prove a motive, but the story

1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:11.959
<v Speaker 1>doesn't end there. After the trial, online salutes and psychologists

1:02:12.280 --> 1:02:14.720
<v Speaker 1>tried to answer the idea of motive.

1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because you're right, you don't have to prove a motive.

1:02:17.000 --> 1:02:19.200
<v Speaker 2>But it is just human nature exactly.

1:02:21.880 --> 1:02:26.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh God. One theory was that Lucy was seeking a thrill,

1:02:26.480 --> 1:02:30.680
<v Speaker 1>wanting to play god. Others have argued that she had

1:02:30.680 --> 1:02:34.640
<v Speaker 1>a fascination with causing grief and the emotional process of grieving.

1:02:35.440 --> 1:02:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Did she become obsessed with this? Another theory is jealousy.

1:02:40.200 --> 1:02:43.040
<v Speaker 1>She was thirty three, lived alone, and perhaps overcome with

1:02:43.160 --> 1:02:44.480
<v Speaker 1>jealousy of happy families.

1:02:44.600 --> 1:02:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh I hate that theory. Fuck off. You can be

1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:49.560
<v Speaker 2>thirty three and not have a family and that doesn't

1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:50.920
<v Speaker 2>make you kill people exactly.

1:02:50.960 --> 1:02:52.920
<v Speaker 1>And that was his online sleuths coming out with all

1:02:52.920 --> 1:02:56.800
<v Speaker 1>these different motives. One more theory is this might have

1:02:56.880 --> 1:02:59.160
<v Speaker 1>been an attempt to get closer to a doctor who

1:02:59.240 --> 1:03:02.840
<v Speaker 1>she was deeply interested in. After the events, the doctor

1:03:02.880 --> 1:03:05.400
<v Speaker 1>would shower her with praise and say what a great

1:03:05.480 --> 1:03:08.520
<v Speaker 1>job she did under high pressure. The doctor's name is

1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:10.560
<v Speaker 1>written in her diary with love heart surrounding her.

1:03:10.680 --> 1:03:10.840
<v Speaker 5>Oh.

1:03:11.800 --> 1:03:15.920
<v Speaker 1>They grew closer and closer over time. Their interactions were

1:03:16.080 --> 1:03:19.320
<v Speaker 1>very limited because he was married and had kids, and

1:03:19.480 --> 1:03:22.160
<v Speaker 1>perhaps she engineered these events to get closer to him.

1:03:22.760 --> 1:03:23.360
<v Speaker 2>That's not true.

1:03:23.400 --> 1:03:27.000
<v Speaker 1>When the case was unfolding, this particular doctor stood by

1:03:27.080 --> 1:03:31.280
<v Speaker 1>her the whole time. Allegedly, when the case was unfolding,

1:03:31.320 --> 1:03:34.040
<v Speaker 1>he even sent her a text, you are one of

1:03:34.080 --> 1:03:36.560
<v Speaker 1>the few nurses across the region and I've worked pretty

1:03:36.600 --> 1:03:38.880
<v Speaker 1>much everywhere that I could trust with my own children.

1:03:39.280 --> 1:03:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Shit.

1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:43.280
<v Speaker 1>He even offered to write her a statement to vouch

1:03:43.360 --> 1:03:47.280
<v Speaker 1>for the quality of her care. He also kept her

1:03:47.360 --> 1:03:50.400
<v Speaker 1>informed of the internal review about her that was happening

1:03:51.040 --> 1:03:52.280
<v Speaker 1>and that was going on at the time, so she

1:03:52.320 --> 1:03:54.200
<v Speaker 1>could stay ahead of the game, which.

1:03:54.080 --> 1:03:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't seem like it doesn't seem legal, does coacher?

1:03:56.840 --> 1:04:00.080
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, When the doctor was called to testify, by at

1:04:00.080 --> 1:04:02.280
<v Speaker 1>this point though, he had turned against her.

1:04:02.720 --> 1:04:02.880
<v Speaker 5>Oh.

1:04:03.360 --> 1:04:05.920
<v Speaker 1>This was one of the only times that Lucy herself

1:04:06.000 --> 1:04:09.240
<v Speaker 1>showed emotion breaking into tears, which kind of proves a

1:04:09.280 --> 1:04:13.560
<v Speaker 1>little bit about that. So even though she was being sentenced,

1:04:14.080 --> 1:04:19.520
<v Speaker 1>the investigation still isn't over. Police continue to investigate and

1:04:19.600 --> 1:04:23.920
<v Speaker 1>review her clinical footprint. How far did it go? New

1:04:24.080 --> 1:04:25.560
<v Speaker 1>charges might still follow?

1:04:25.760 --> 1:04:28.560
<v Speaker 2>Wow for damage cause to please.

1:04:29.240 --> 1:04:32.360
<v Speaker 1>In twenty twenty four, Lucy went through a retrial on

1:04:32.480 --> 1:04:35.800
<v Speaker 1>baby K the assertion that the baby was active and

1:04:36.000 --> 1:04:39.800
<v Speaker 1>might have dislodged it themselves to dislodged his pipe. But

1:04:39.960 --> 1:04:42.360
<v Speaker 1>she was found guilty in the retrial again and giving

1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:48.000
<v Speaker 1>an additional life sentence. Since the trial, the hospital's implemented

1:04:48.080 --> 1:04:50.160
<v Speaker 1>an entirely new senior management team.

1:04:50.320 --> 1:04:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I reckon.

1:04:51.120 --> 1:04:54.040
<v Speaker 1>They still haven't lifted the restriction of accepting babies under

1:04:54.040 --> 1:04:56.560
<v Speaker 1>the thirty two week gestation period.

1:04:56.720 --> 1:04:59.760
<v Speaker 2>So even though someone an individual has been found guilty

1:04:59.800 --> 1:05:03.400
<v Speaker 2>for being responsible for these, the hospital itself won't.

1:05:03.240 --> 1:05:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Take apparently, Yeah, that's all understaffing since the trial. Sorry.

1:05:08.600 --> 1:05:12.400
<v Speaker 1>The case has been likened to Harold Shipman, who killed

1:05:12.440 --> 1:05:15.880
<v Speaker 1>over two hundred patients in the late nineteen nineties to

1:05:16.000 --> 1:05:19.880
<v Speaker 1>early two thousands. Doctor death Well, yeah, the British doctor. Yes, yes,

1:05:20.520 --> 1:05:22.600
<v Speaker 1>in not the one that the TV show was based

1:05:22.640 --> 1:05:26.000
<v Speaker 1>on in February twenty twenty five, when a major press

1:05:26.040 --> 1:05:30.960
<v Speaker 1>conference was held that Lucy Sorry Sorry. In twenty twenty five,

1:05:31.040 --> 1:05:34.640
<v Speaker 1>a major press conference was held that Lucy let Be

1:05:35.160 --> 1:05:51.160
<v Speaker 1>was in fact one hundred percent innocent. Twenty twenty five,

1:05:51.200 --> 1:05:54.840
<v Speaker 1>a major press conference was held that Lucy let Be

1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:58.600
<v Speaker 1>was in fact one hundred percent innocent. It was held

1:05:58.640 --> 1:06:04.600
<v Speaker 1>by Dr Sulee, Anadian professor, and fourteen international neonatal specialists independently.

1:06:05.360 --> 1:06:07.760
<v Speaker 1>They said that they were deeply concerned about how the

1:06:07.840 --> 1:06:11.840
<v Speaker 1>medical evidence had been interpreted at the time. Their conclusion

1:06:12.360 --> 1:06:15.600
<v Speaker 1>was that there was no medical evidence whatsoever in any

1:06:15.800 --> 1:06:19.240
<v Speaker 1>of the seventeen cases. In their view, they said that

1:06:19.360 --> 1:06:22.720
<v Speaker 1>every single collapse or death was explained by natural causes

1:06:22.840 --> 1:06:26.360
<v Speaker 1>or failure of care in an overstretched unit. During a

1:06:26.760 --> 1:06:30.400
<v Speaker 1>press conference, doctor schu Lee said he disagreed when the

1:06:30.520 --> 1:06:35.040
<v Speaker 1>retired pediatrician volunteered their services, so he disagreed completely with

1:06:35.160 --> 1:06:38.360
<v Speaker 1>what they said. As for the alarm that was turned off,

1:06:38.560 --> 1:06:41.320
<v Speaker 1>well that was the only one. It was only one

1:06:41.440 --> 1:06:44.880
<v Speaker 1>of the nurse's testimonies. Another said that it wasn't turned off.

1:06:45.600 --> 1:06:48.800
<v Speaker 1>The panel expanded on their findings and like I said before,

1:06:49.120 --> 1:06:52.320
<v Speaker 1>found Lucy one hundred percent innocent and that none of

1:06:52.400 --> 1:06:56.400
<v Speaker 1>the cases were caused by direct hum. The panel offered

1:06:56.400 --> 1:07:00.680
<v Speaker 1>the information freely for Lucy's defense to use. Her defense

1:07:00.760 --> 1:07:04.840
<v Speaker 1>team took it extremely seriously, which means that Lucy could

1:07:04.880 --> 1:07:10.400
<v Speaker 1>be eligible for retrial. In July twenty twenty five, police

1:07:10.560 --> 1:07:15.320
<v Speaker 1>arrested three senior hospital staff members on suspicion of causing

1:07:15.400 --> 1:07:19.840
<v Speaker 1>death of serious negligence. Their names have not been released

1:07:19.960 --> 1:07:22.040
<v Speaker 1>as far as I could find, but it is being

1:07:22.120 --> 1:07:26.640
<v Speaker 1>taken extremely seriously Lucy. Lucy does now have a glimmer

1:07:26.640 --> 1:07:29.800
<v Speaker 1>of hope in the future if she is indeed innocent.

1:07:30.480 --> 1:07:34.520
<v Speaker 1>It also opens up families to a further hurt and anguish,

1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:38.360
<v Speaker 1>of course it does. There is a brand new Netflix

1:07:38.440 --> 1:07:41.000
<v Speaker 1>documentary about this. By the time this is released, will

1:07:41.040 --> 1:07:44.520
<v Speaker 1>be available. The tragedy of Lucy let Bee is not

1:07:44.720 --> 1:07:49.560
<v Speaker 1>only in the lives lost, but is in how we

1:07:49.880 --> 1:07:53.400
<v Speaker 1>deem the unthinkable that harm could come from someone whose

1:07:53.480 --> 1:07:57.400
<v Speaker 1>role was to protect the most vulnerable. I'll do it again,

1:07:57.880 --> 1:08:00.360
<v Speaker 1>The harm could be from someone whose role was protect

1:08:00.400 --> 1:08:03.120
<v Speaker 1>the most vulnerable. Whether you believe her to be guilty

1:08:03.320 --> 1:08:07.720
<v Speaker 1>or not, it either shows an evil, monstrous person, perhaps

1:08:07.800 --> 1:08:11.760
<v Speaker 1>without a motive or deep seated issue within the NHS.

1:08:12.760 --> 1:08:15.960
<v Speaker 1>If found guilty, again is the reminder that sympisms built

1:08:16.040 --> 1:08:20.240
<v Speaker 1>on trust must also be built on vigilance, because when

1:08:20.280 --> 1:08:22.840
<v Speaker 1>a wolf wears the clothing of a healer, the cost

1:08:22.880 --> 1:08:27.439
<v Speaker 1>of disbelief can be catastrophic. That g is the case

1:08:27.840 --> 1:08:30.960
<v Speaker 1>of Lucy let Be and babies at a Q whose

1:08:31.080 --> 1:08:34.440
<v Speaker 1>names have been suppressed, but the poor families are absolutely

1:08:34.720 --> 1:08:37.519
<v Speaker 1>at the front of our minds in today's episode.

1:08:37.720 --> 1:08:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, this is such an awful one. It's so

1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:44.120
<v Speaker 2>hard to even kind of put into words what I

1:08:44.280 --> 1:08:47.400
<v Speaker 2>think and feel about it. I know, I know, just

1:08:47.520 --> 1:08:48.360
<v Speaker 2>so devastating.

1:08:48.880 --> 1:08:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean so that I'm interested to see this

1:08:51.760 --> 1:08:53.559
<v Speaker 1>documentary that's coming out of me and we're recording before

1:08:53.600 --> 1:08:56.840
<v Speaker 1>it comes out. But what I was interested in because

1:08:56.880 --> 1:08:58.320
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh my gosh, he's guilty. And I

1:08:58.360 --> 1:09:01.240
<v Speaker 1>started to write the story and then I went imagine,

1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:04.599
<v Speaker 1>if she's not, like I mean, in a wild world

1:09:04.640 --> 1:09:05.160
<v Speaker 1>where she's not.

1:09:05.360 --> 1:09:09.280
<v Speaker 2>If these it is the common deny she's there, but

1:09:09.400 --> 1:09:12.280
<v Speaker 2>it is just a coincidence.

1:09:12.280 --> 1:09:14.639
<v Speaker 1>If that is the case. But if she is guilty,

1:09:14.720 --> 1:09:17.280
<v Speaker 1>what a monster. I just don't understand the motive at all.

1:09:17.920 --> 1:09:20.320
<v Speaker 2>No, But again, you don't know. That doesn't have to

1:09:20.400 --> 1:09:24.439
<v Speaker 2>be proven. She could just be you know, obviously not

1:09:24.640 --> 1:09:29.000
<v Speaker 2>right in the head. I mean, oh god, I don't

1:09:29.439 --> 1:09:31.680
<v Speaker 2>I feel weird even commenting on it. I don't know.

1:09:32.880 --> 1:09:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I've had very close friends have premature babies. I've had

1:09:37.520 --> 1:09:40.360
<v Speaker 2>very close friends have stillwood babies. And that is my

1:09:40.560 --> 1:09:45.920
<v Speaker 2>closest touchwood association with that, And that breaks my heart

1:09:45.960 --> 1:09:49.040
<v Speaker 2>to even think about. And that's just an association with

1:09:49.200 --> 1:09:52.120
<v Speaker 2>people who've been who've suffered through that.

1:09:52.840 --> 1:09:54.400
<v Speaker 4>I cannot imagine.

1:09:55.720 --> 1:09:59.200
<v Speaker 2>Someone losing a child and finding out that someone's to

1:09:59.240 --> 1:09:59.760
<v Speaker 2>blame for that.

1:10:00.200 --> 1:10:05.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so devastating. Yeah, absolutely, and that just the families

1:10:05.800 --> 1:10:08.519
<v Speaker 1>being there going this is the person. That's why kind

1:10:08.520 --> 1:10:10.599
<v Speaker 1>of was talking about the wolf at the start, because

1:10:10.600 --> 1:10:13.280
<v Speaker 1>it is like that's literally the person who is literally

1:10:13.360 --> 1:10:15.519
<v Speaker 1>the person that was there, Like and if you see that,

1:10:15.600 --> 1:10:18.800
<v Speaker 1>if the disguise you don't know that, of course not.

1:10:18.840 --> 1:10:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Why would you ever question the person who's exactly a

1:10:21.200 --> 1:10:24.759
<v Speaker 2>job it is and you know, to be there exactly

1:10:25.640 --> 1:10:28.320
<v Speaker 2>like you know, put her life towards doing that. It's

1:10:28.400 --> 1:10:30.080
<v Speaker 2>not a job like you know, you've got to your

1:10:30.120 --> 1:10:31.800
<v Speaker 2>office job and all, this is the job you've got

1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:35.479
<v Speaker 2>to do today. No, that is, like, you know, nurses

1:10:35.560 --> 1:10:39.599
<v Speaker 2>are just the most incredible humans on earth, I think.

1:10:39.840 --> 1:10:44.920
<v Speaker 2>Usually to make that decision to dedicate your life to

1:10:45.040 --> 1:10:47.280
<v Speaker 2>literally saving people and doing the jobs that so many

1:10:47.320 --> 1:10:49.440
<v Speaker 2>other people don't want to do because of their devastation,

1:10:49.600 --> 1:10:53.439
<v Speaker 2>you'd see, it's so hard because I can't. It's really

1:10:53.520 --> 1:10:58.000
<v Speaker 2>difficult to play devil's advocate to use that term again

1:10:58.360 --> 1:11:00.519
<v Speaker 2>and go, oh, but what if she's not? But fuck,

1:11:00.560 --> 1:11:01.960
<v Speaker 2>you're right, yeah, what if she's not?

1:11:02.200 --> 1:11:02.640
<v Speaker 1>But I don't know.

1:11:02.720 --> 1:11:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because it's interesting, sorry to interrupt you. The thing

1:11:05.920 --> 1:11:10.960
<v Speaker 2>about the panel of fourteen independent doctors that immediately my

1:11:11.120 --> 1:11:15.200
<v Speaker 2>mind went to the Lindy Chamberlain case sure where independent

1:11:15.280 --> 1:11:19.000
<v Speaker 2>people afterwards came to the fore and said, well, hang on, no,

1:11:19.880 --> 1:11:24.639
<v Speaker 2>we don't think that because actually Dingo's behaviors are proven

1:11:24.720 --> 1:11:26.680
<v Speaker 2>to do this blah blah blah. And that was a

1:11:26.760 --> 1:11:29.800
<v Speaker 2>case of a lot of independent people coming out and saying, no,

1:11:30.000 --> 1:11:31.840
<v Speaker 2>we work in the field and we don't believe that.

1:11:32.840 --> 1:11:35.280
<v Speaker 2>That's just given me a glimpse, like a reminder of that.

1:11:35.880 --> 1:11:39.280
<v Speaker 2>But you also, like I just desperately want to have

1:11:40.120 --> 1:11:43.479
<v Speaker 2>hope and trust in the legal system to believe that

1:11:43.640 --> 1:11:46.639
<v Speaker 2>it did the right thing and it made the right decision.

1:11:47.240 --> 1:11:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Who know, you know, there could be another retrol Like

1:11:49.360 --> 1:11:51.320
<v Speaker 1>who knows that in you know knowother ten years, people

1:11:51.360 --> 1:11:53.280
<v Speaker 1>might be looking back and going what the hell? Like

1:11:53.800 --> 1:11:55.760
<v Speaker 1>either way, like I mean, if she if she was

1:11:55.840 --> 1:11:59.680
<v Speaker 1>found innocent, that's a wild thing to have happened. But

1:11:59.720 --> 1:12:02.320
<v Speaker 1>also so if she's found guilty, it's just such a

1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:07.479
<v Speaker 1>monstrous thing. Yes, you know as a thirty three year

1:12:07.520 --> 1:12:10.360
<v Speaker 1>old just you know, have done this Andy three.

1:12:10.400 --> 1:12:11.920
<v Speaker 2>By the time she was arrested as well, it was

1:12:11.960 --> 1:12:12.960
<v Speaker 2>happening for three years.

1:12:13.200 --> 1:12:13.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah.

1:12:14.600 --> 1:12:16.080
<v Speaker 1>And also like we all have to do the Harold

1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:18.439
<v Speaker 1>Shipman at some point. I mean, you know, the idea

1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:20.840
<v Speaker 1>of this podcast is we have to space some of

1:12:20.880 --> 1:12:23.920
<v Speaker 1>these episodes out of me. You know, we can't do doctors, can't,

1:12:24.040 --> 1:12:27.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, because it is so awful to go through

1:12:27.240 --> 1:12:29.400
<v Speaker 1>some of these and this one was particularly hard just

1:12:29.439 --> 1:12:32.200
<v Speaker 1>to investigate and stuff, because it's like as you go

1:12:32.320 --> 1:12:35.360
<v Speaker 1>into the graphic detail and the nature of it, you go,

1:12:35.479 --> 1:12:38.880
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, like it is so awful, And there

1:12:38.920 --> 1:12:41.000
<v Speaker 1>are other places to find that sort of information. We

1:12:41.040 --> 1:12:42.680
<v Speaker 1>don't want to talk about that because it is so

1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:46.840
<v Speaker 1>devastating and I think I think I said enough in there.

1:12:46.920 --> 1:12:49.639
<v Speaker 1>It's just like, it is so awful what these poor

1:12:49.800 --> 1:12:51.839
<v Speaker 1>families went through. It's just horrible.

1:12:52.400 --> 1:12:54.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'm looking forward to watching that documentary.

1:12:54.840 --> 1:12:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Same. Yeah, I would be interested to see what what

1:12:57.680 --> 1:12:59.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of conclusion they make in the documentary.

1:13:00.840 --> 1:13:05.800
<v Speaker 2>I know, I don't know if my friends, I won't

1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:07.640
<v Speaker 2>say the names, but to my friends I know who

1:13:07.720 --> 1:13:10.640
<v Speaker 2>listened to this podcast religiously, I don't know if they

1:13:10.760 --> 1:13:13.320
<v Speaker 2>listen to this episode. They've both got children and that

1:13:13.479 --> 1:13:17.439
<v Speaker 2>this might be a bit too upsetting for them. But

1:13:17.880 --> 1:13:20.519
<v Speaker 2>I know I have spoken to each of them about

1:13:20.600 --> 1:13:23.120
<v Speaker 2>Lucy let Be before and they very much say, you know,

1:13:23.760 --> 1:13:26.360
<v Speaker 2>she's a fucking monster, yes, and yeah, yeah, the most

1:13:26.400 --> 1:13:28.479
<v Speaker 2>horrible kind of monster you can even fathom.

1:13:28.680 --> 1:13:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:13:29.360 --> 1:13:29.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1:13:30.360 --> 1:13:34.240
<v Speaker 2>So that's certainly my you know, was my knowledge and

1:13:34.360 --> 1:13:37.439
<v Speaker 2>understanding of the case before. So I'm really interested to

1:13:37.439 --> 1:13:39.840
<v Speaker 2>see this documentary. I'm also interested to see how because

1:13:40.000 --> 1:13:43.280
<v Speaker 2>we discussed this often with a documentary, it is, you

1:13:43.360 --> 1:13:45.400
<v Speaker 2>know that there is always bias kind of brought to it.

1:13:45.520 --> 1:13:48.719
<v Speaker 4>Whoever the filmmaker is will kind of welcome more.

1:13:49.560 --> 1:13:49.720
<v Speaker 1>Is it?

1:13:49.800 --> 1:13:53.040
<v Speaker 2>Really? That would be quite amazing. I wonder if they.

1:13:53.040 --> 1:13:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Lean just keep talking about Flint, Michigan. I'm about Flint,

1:13:55.800 --> 1:13:57.639
<v Speaker 1>Michigan so much. Now that's where you grew up. It's

1:13:57.640 --> 1:13:58.639
<v Speaker 1>got nothing to do nothing.

1:13:58.720 --> 1:14:02.600
<v Speaker 2>Literally, I wonder if that will lean into or not

1:14:02.800 --> 1:14:07.760
<v Speaker 2>lean into brother we'll explore the assertions that she may

1:14:07.840 --> 1:14:10.120
<v Speaker 2>not be guilty or if it's going no, these are

1:14:10.160 --> 1:14:12.640
<v Speaker 2>the facts, and this is what a jury has discovered. This,

1:14:13.320 --> 1:14:15.080
<v Speaker 2>this is a fact she's a monster.

1:14:15.080 --> 1:14:17.640
<v Speaker 1>Which is you know what they should do. I just

1:14:17.720 --> 1:14:20.840
<v Speaker 1>find it interesting if they are sew up to date

1:14:20.960 --> 1:14:24.479
<v Speaker 1>and they discussed the review that was undertaken. I mean,

1:14:24.720 --> 1:14:28.800
<v Speaker 1>it's really interesting that a panel came forward volunteered to

1:14:29.000 --> 1:14:31.439
<v Speaker 1>say that, and that That's why I thought it was

1:14:31.439 --> 1:14:35.599
<v Speaker 1>important to say that the original pediatrician did he was retired,

1:14:35.640 --> 1:14:38.479
<v Speaker 1>but he did volunteer. Yes, so the police didn't go

1:14:38.560 --> 1:14:41.160
<v Speaker 1>to him. He volunteered and that was his evidence that

1:14:41.240 --> 1:14:43.240
<v Speaker 1>he found right, And so that could.

1:14:43.040 --> 1:14:45.240
<v Speaker 2>Be seen as AE.

1:14:45.680 --> 1:14:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that could be a strange thing. But also then

1:14:48.360 --> 1:14:51.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, doctor Suley from Canada came out and said

1:14:51.439 --> 1:14:54.439
<v Speaker 1>there is no way that we can say this as

1:14:54.760 --> 1:14:58.519
<v Speaker 1>and also included fourteen other neonatal specialists. I just find

1:14:58.520 --> 1:15:02.800
<v Speaker 1>it really interesting. I just wonder that compulsion was for

1:15:02.960 --> 1:15:05.720
<v Speaker 1>them to come forward and say that, because why are

1:15:05.760 --> 1:15:09.720
<v Speaker 1>you disagreeing with another? You know, and the justice and

1:15:09.800 --> 1:15:13.080
<v Speaker 1>the justice system is well ten month trial, yes, where

1:15:13.080 --> 1:15:16.040
<v Speaker 1>they were found guilty. So that's that's I just found

1:15:16.040 --> 1:15:18.080
<v Speaker 1>that really interesting as a kind of a footnote to

1:15:18.160 --> 1:15:21.560
<v Speaker 1>this case that we don't know what's happened.

1:15:21.320 --> 1:15:24.560
<v Speaker 2>Or by the letter of them all we do, but

1:15:24.680 --> 1:15:27.960
<v Speaker 2>it's important to talk about. It's interesting maybe to talk

1:15:27.960 --> 1:15:29.559
<v Speaker 2>about the fact that other people disagree.

1:15:30.240 --> 1:15:35.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, wow, yeah, isn't it's a fascinating story than if.

1:15:34.960 --> 1:15:37.880
<v Speaker 2>We're researching that one because I didn't want to Yeah,

1:15:39.240 --> 1:15:42.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, purely selfish reasons for me, is anything, because

1:15:43.520 --> 1:15:45.640
<v Speaker 2>oh god, it's just awful. It's just hard, and I

1:15:45.760 --> 1:15:48.240
<v Speaker 2>think this is exactly what you said. No matter what

1:15:48.360 --> 1:15:51.240
<v Speaker 2>comes out of that, it does not change the fact

1:15:51.240 --> 1:15:53.759
<v Speaker 2>that these families have gone through this and that they've.

1:15:53.640 --> 1:15:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Lost their babies, and that you know, at the most

1:15:58.280 --> 1:16:00.600
<v Speaker 1>critical time of their lives as well, you know, like

1:16:00.760 --> 1:16:02.840
<v Speaker 1>it was the sad is I want to end and

1:16:02.880 --> 1:16:05.000
<v Speaker 1>I wrote this again at the end. Wolves are easy

1:16:05.040 --> 1:16:08.679
<v Speaker 1>to spot, sharp teeth, yellow eyes, a hunger that shows

1:16:08.720 --> 1:16:11.639
<v Speaker 1>itself in the way they move, But the most dangerous

1:16:11.680 --> 1:16:15.519
<v Speaker 1>wolves learn early how to soften their steps, how to

1:16:15.600 --> 1:16:19.479
<v Speaker 1>lower their gaze, how to wear gentleness like a borrowed skin.

1:16:20.439 --> 1:16:24.240
<v Speaker 1>In this place, softness was the uniform. Voices stayed low,

1:16:24.920 --> 1:16:29.759
<v Speaker 1>hands were careful, Smiles were meant to reassure. Lives small

1:16:29.880 --> 1:16:32.439
<v Speaker 1>enough to fit in the crook of an arm depended

1:16:32.560 --> 1:16:37.120
<v Speaker 1>on routines, trust, and the unspoken faith that those who

1:16:37.200 --> 1:16:41.960
<v Speaker 1>stood what through the night were there to protect. No

1:16:42.160 --> 1:16:45.280
<v Speaker 1>one thought to question the figure who blended so completely

1:16:45.439 --> 1:16:48.679
<v Speaker 1>into that promise, who spoke the language of care fluently,

1:16:49.080 --> 1:16:53.439
<v Speaker 1>who appeared when alarm sounded, who seemed to grieve when

1:16:53.520 --> 1:16:57.439
<v Speaker 1>things went wrong. That was the story of a wolf

1:16:57.560 --> 1:17:00.719
<v Speaker 1>in sheep's clothing, not one that prow on the edges,

1:17:01.080 --> 1:17:03.280
<v Speaker 1>but one that stood at the center of the flock.

1:17:04.120 --> 1:17:07.240
<v Speaker 1>It is a story about how evil does not always

1:17:07.320 --> 1:17:11.240
<v Speaker 1>announce itself with noise or chaos, but sometimes arrives quietly,

1:17:11.760 --> 1:17:15.519
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in kindness, waiting for the moment when no one

1:17:15.680 --> 1:17:19.439
<v Speaker 1>is looking closely enough to see the teeth beneath the wall.

1:17:20.600 --> 1:17:28.799
<v Speaker 1>We're back with a mailbang section in just a moment, Hey, everybody,

1:17:28.800 --> 1:17:30.040
<v Speaker 1>it's a mail bag section.

1:17:30.160 --> 1:17:32.120
<v Speaker 2>She eats a mail bag eats a mail bag.

1:17:32.920 --> 1:17:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. The first Internet letter comes

1:17:36.200 --> 1:17:39.400
<v Speaker 1>from Gemma with a J. There's so many, so many

1:17:39.479 --> 1:17:42.840
<v Speaker 1>gems and Sammy and g this is Gemma with a J.

1:17:43.160 --> 1:17:45.200
<v Speaker 1>But if you can call me Emma with a silent

1:17:45.360 --> 1:17:49.120
<v Speaker 1>J whatever, haha. I want to commend you both for

1:17:49.200 --> 1:17:52.800
<v Speaker 1>your story on the clut Up family murders, in particular

1:17:53.040 --> 1:17:56.880
<v Speaker 1>not making a joke of the name Dick Hickcock. Incredible

1:17:56.960 --> 1:17:59.120
<v Speaker 1>restraint and honestly I'm proud of you both.

1:17:59.240 --> 1:17:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, girl.

1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:02.240
<v Speaker 1>I have a question. Do you ever have a moment

1:18:02.280 --> 1:18:05.080
<v Speaker 1>where you listen back to something and think, I wish

1:18:05.160 --> 1:18:08.280
<v Speaker 1>I'd made that joke there. I will play moments all

1:18:08.320 --> 1:18:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the time in my head as well as making jokes

1:18:11.880 --> 1:18:14.519
<v Speaker 1>along with YouTube. It really feels like this is a

1:18:14.600 --> 1:18:17.320
<v Speaker 1>dinner party where you put out the extra chair for

1:18:17.479 --> 1:18:21.360
<v Speaker 1>us lucky folk. Love you both, Jim, Emma with the

1:18:21.479 --> 1:18:21.960
<v Speaker 1>island JA.

1:18:22.479 --> 1:18:24.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, Jam that's one of my favorite messages.

1:18:24.880 --> 1:18:26.200
<v Speaker 1>That's great. We love that.

1:18:26.400 --> 1:18:28.719
<v Speaker 2>I really really really love when people say it feels

1:18:28.760 --> 1:18:31.080
<v Speaker 2>like they're yes with us because that's what we do.

1:18:31.640 --> 1:18:34.160
<v Speaker 2>That's also very funny. Yeah, I thought when we were

1:18:34.160 --> 1:18:36.360
<v Speaker 2>talking about a horrible murderer. We shouldn't make a dick

1:18:36.479 --> 1:18:39.320
<v Speaker 2>hickcock joke, but I mean it's there for you.

1:18:39.520 --> 1:18:43.160
<v Speaker 1>I know, Yeah, that's you, Mike. You can say that,

1:18:43.320 --> 1:18:46.040
<v Speaker 1>you can giggle along dick kick. But she said, yeah,

1:18:46.080 --> 1:18:47.920
<v Speaker 1>do you ever do you ever make jokes? You go,

1:18:48.000 --> 1:18:49.160
<v Speaker 1>oh god, I wish I could.

1:18:49.400 --> 1:18:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, so often, you know it's funny as well.

1:18:51.920 --> 1:18:53.680
<v Speaker 2>I'll like listen back to my episodes because you do

1:18:53.720 --> 1:18:56.000
<v Speaker 2>all the editing. Yeah, so you listen while you're editing.

1:18:56.800 --> 1:18:58.639
<v Speaker 2>I will then listen to the finish thing when it's

1:18:58.680 --> 1:19:01.640
<v Speaker 2>out there. You know, what's my theater and what's not

1:19:01.800 --> 1:19:04.599
<v Speaker 2>for you know, when people message us and to respond

1:19:04.680 --> 1:19:07.800
<v Speaker 2>and everything, And I'll hear you say something, and as

1:19:07.880 --> 1:19:11.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm listening, like in my car or whatever, I'll kind

1:19:11.120 --> 1:19:13.960
<v Speaker 2>of in my head comment what I think of a comment,

1:19:14.240 --> 1:19:18.960
<v Speaker 2>And then I hear myself in the recording comment. I

1:19:19.120 --> 1:19:21.320
<v Speaker 2>was just like, oh yeah, I am just myself from

1:19:21.360 --> 1:19:23.800
<v Speaker 2>that because I've thought of the same comeback right now

1:19:23.840 --> 1:19:25.000
<v Speaker 2>as well, and I already did it.

1:19:26.120 --> 1:19:30.080
<v Speaker 1>This one come from Nicola. What a fabulous episode. This

1:19:30.160 --> 1:19:33.719
<v Speaker 1>is a John Ronson episode. Oh yeah, John Ronson, John Rostrom.

1:19:34.880 --> 1:19:38.200
<v Speaker 1>John Ronson is such an interesting man, really appreciate this

1:19:38.280 --> 1:19:40.600
<v Speaker 1>great listen. Thank you Sam in Georgia. Oh, thank you,

1:19:41.320 --> 1:19:44.080
<v Speaker 1>we love, we love John Ronson. That was so much fun.

1:19:44.720 --> 1:19:48.200
<v Speaker 2>I went straight to work after that recording and I

1:19:48.280 --> 1:19:49.800
<v Speaker 2>was a bit hag and I went and I was like,

1:19:49.920 --> 1:19:52.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, actually no, no, I wasn't late. But it

1:19:52.439 --> 1:19:54.519
<v Speaker 2>was one of the girl's birthdays, so I had said

1:19:54.560 --> 1:19:56.760
<v Speaker 2>if I could come in earlier, would And I said, sorry,

1:19:56.800 --> 1:19:59.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't make the birthday cake a bit but and I

1:19:59.240 --> 1:20:02.479
<v Speaker 2>was like, this, guess who I just interviewed, John Rod said,

1:20:02.760 --> 1:20:05.439
<v Speaker 2>And everyone was like, oh, I don't know who that is?

1:20:05.640 --> 1:20:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Something to say everyone. There was just a couple of

1:20:07.000 --> 1:20:08.920
<v Speaker 2>people work like, oh, I don't know who that is. Sorry,

1:20:08.960 --> 1:20:11.760
<v Speaker 2>And I was like, don't take away my sparkle. I'm

1:20:11.880 --> 1:20:13.840
<v Speaker 2>so excited coming behigh that.

1:20:14.200 --> 1:20:17.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, those people are uncle, grow yeah, grow up.

1:20:17.560 --> 1:20:20.439
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. This one comes from Vicky. You ready

1:20:20.439 --> 1:20:20.600
<v Speaker 1>for this?

1:20:23.040 --> 1:20:25.200
<v Speaker 5>I thought i'd ring an ad for the person that

1:20:25.320 --> 1:20:27.680
<v Speaker 5>wrote in about the movie Evil Angels that it came

1:20:27.760 --> 1:20:31.240
<v Speaker 5>from a book called Evil Angels by John Bryson. It

1:20:31.280 --> 1:20:33.720
<v Speaker 5>has a lot of information about the investigations as well.

1:20:33.800 --> 1:20:35.040
<v Speaker 1>From my memory, I.

1:20:35.160 --> 1:20:37.519
<v Speaker 5>Had to study it in the early nineties for Year

1:20:37.560 --> 1:20:39.320
<v Speaker 5>twelve English text.

1:20:39.400 --> 1:20:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, so that's about the one about Lindy and

1:20:42.680 --> 1:20:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Michael chamber. Actually, my sister said to me about the film,

1:20:48.000 --> 1:20:52.840
<v Speaker 2>about the film, Yes, yeah, Evil Angels. She said, that's

1:20:53.000 --> 1:20:57.080
<v Speaker 2>why that cat cry, you know, the catchphrase the Dingo's

1:20:57.080 --> 1:21:03.040
<v Speaker 2>got my baby. That's why that's so famous infamous America

1:21:03.760 --> 1:21:05.040
<v Speaker 2>was because of Meryl.

1:21:04.800 --> 1:21:06.760
<v Speaker 4>Streep saying it in the movie Oh wow.

1:21:06.840 --> 1:21:09.240
<v Speaker 2>And that's why it's misquoted because apparently in the movie

1:21:09.320 --> 1:21:11.680
<v Speaker 2>she says something goes stole my baby or whatever the

1:21:11.760 --> 1:21:14.599
<v Speaker 2>misquoting is that she says in the movie. And that's

1:21:14.600 --> 1:21:18.720
<v Speaker 2>why on like Seinfeld and The Simpsons and stuff, that's

1:21:18.760 --> 1:21:21.439
<v Speaker 2>so quoted as the Australian thing because it's Meryl Streep

1:21:21.520 --> 1:21:23.360
<v Speaker 2>doing it in this Australian accent and that kind of

1:21:23.439 --> 1:21:25.840
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of what made it even more famous than

1:21:25.960 --> 1:21:27.439
<v Speaker 2>just the pus itself.

1:21:29.200 --> 1:21:31.200
<v Speaker 1>To check the film out as well, because yeah, we.

1:21:31.240 --> 1:21:33.519
<v Speaker 2>Have said everyone to watch it. I just can't imagine

1:21:33.520 --> 1:21:33.920
<v Speaker 2>it's good.

1:21:34.280 --> 1:21:34.560
<v Speaker 1>I know.

1:21:34.920 --> 1:21:36.680
<v Speaker 2>I feel like if Meryl Streep did it and it's

1:21:36.680 --> 1:21:39.720
<v Speaker 2>about a famous Australian case, why haven't we seen it?

1:21:39.840 --> 1:21:42.439
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know it's so funny. I saw a

1:21:42.560 --> 1:21:44.240
<v Speaker 1>meme the other day that had like just a dog

1:21:44.360 --> 1:21:46.599
<v Speaker 1>on the chair and it said on the back Meryl Streep.

1:21:48.360 --> 1:21:50.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay on this, are there any move like? Is there

1:21:50.720 --> 1:21:53.040
<v Speaker 2>a movie that you haven't seen that? Everyone is really

1:21:53.120 --> 1:21:54.320
<v Speaker 2>surprised you haven't seen.

1:21:57.000 --> 1:21:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Rival.

1:21:57.920 --> 1:21:59.240
<v Speaker 2>That's no movie, baby girl?

1:22:00.200 --> 1:22:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, probably. I mean I haven't seen what good Fellows.

1:22:03.960 --> 1:22:04.920
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen good Fellows.

1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I know I neither of us. This will

1:22:07.920 --> 1:22:11.400
<v Speaker 2>surprise you because you know my beautiful friend Shannade, who

1:22:11.840 --> 1:22:13.280
<v Speaker 2>lives in Lonnie, who I was just hanging out with

1:22:13.680 --> 1:22:16.080
<v Speaker 2>for the weekend. Now, if you think I love musical

1:22:16.160 --> 1:22:19.880
<v Speaker 2>theater said, is like a singing, walking, talking, singing, dancing

1:22:20.000 --> 1:22:20.519
<v Speaker 2>version of me.

1:22:20.640 --> 1:22:21.599
<v Speaker 1>She hasn't seen Spirited.

1:22:22.840 --> 1:22:27.639
<v Speaker 2>She hasn't seen high school musical. I discovered this today

1:22:28.080 --> 1:22:34.080
<v Speaker 2>after her thirteen years. She has not seen high school musical. Like,

1:22:34.240 --> 1:22:36.200
<v Speaker 2>hang on, Sammy, you haven't seen high school musical? No?

1:22:36.680 --> 1:22:39.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, well, guess what makes way more sense than it does?

1:22:39.320 --> 1:22:41.519
<v Speaker 2>Make more sense than Shade, But it doesn't make sense

1:22:41.560 --> 1:22:45.679
<v Speaker 2>as my best person, my best person, my best friend,

1:22:46.160 --> 1:22:47.880
<v Speaker 2>and I was thinking your favorite person, I just got

1:22:47.920 --> 1:22:52.519
<v Speaker 2>to oh, you are my best person. We're watching high

1:22:52.520 --> 1:22:53.439
<v Speaker 2>school musical together.

1:22:53.720 --> 1:22:57.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh weh okay, Like I think for like TV shows

1:22:57.040 --> 1:22:59.200
<v Speaker 1>and stuff for more, like I haven't seen Breaking Bad.

1:22:59.320 --> 1:23:03.120
<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen those sorts of shows. I'm like, yeah,

1:23:03.200 --> 1:23:05.160
<v Speaker 1>but films, I don't know the film.

1:23:05.160 --> 1:23:08.759
<v Speaker 2>It's like two hours. Breaking Bad is like a big commitment.

1:23:10.800 --> 1:23:11.320
<v Speaker 1>But a movie.

1:23:11.360 --> 1:23:12.559
<v Speaker 2>I've never seen a Star War.

1:23:13.120 --> 1:23:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I love a Star War.

1:23:14.400 --> 1:23:17.800
<v Speaker 4>I've only seen one James Bond, have you yeah?

1:23:17.800 --> 1:23:19.200
<v Speaker 2>When the last one is the only one I've seen

1:23:19.600 --> 1:23:22.280
<v Speaker 2>where spoiler alerts Boilerhead skip ahead if you don't if

1:23:22.320 --> 1:23:24.439
<v Speaker 2>you haven't seen it, the one where he dies. So

1:23:24.600 --> 1:23:28.080
<v Speaker 2>I was very confused. I was confused by everyone being like,

1:23:28.520 --> 1:23:30.960
<v Speaker 2>shook us at that, because I was like, does that.

1:23:31.040 --> 1:23:35.680
<v Speaker 1>Not every film? Hey, we've got two voice smails? But

1:23:35.720 --> 1:23:38.080
<v Speaker 1>it's part one and part two, and it comes from

1:23:38.120 --> 1:23:40.280
<v Speaker 1>someone I've heard from before, and I really bloody like

1:23:40.320 --> 1:23:42.160
<v Speaker 1>them because I love their name on that much.

1:23:43.120 --> 1:23:51.200
<v Speaker 7>Woody Woody, Hello friends, into your favorite long winded listener

1:23:51.320 --> 1:23:57.160
<v Speaker 7>and caller Woody with respect to the recent episode on

1:23:57.760 --> 1:24:02.760
<v Speaker 7>the Cecil Hotel. The Cescal Hotel, I believe both pronunciations

1:24:02.800 --> 1:24:04.040
<v Speaker 7>are correct depending now.

1:24:05.920 --> 1:24:13.120
<v Speaker 6>But also my call funnily enough is about pronunciations, because.

1:24:13.120 --> 1:24:18.080
<v Speaker 2>My actual name is Alisa, much like.

1:24:19.560 --> 1:24:23.639
<v Speaker 7>In the episode Lisa Lamb, mine is spelt E double

1:24:23.760 --> 1:24:24.439
<v Speaker 7>l I s A.

1:24:24.840 --> 1:24:26.439
<v Speaker 2>Who's his E l s A.

1:24:26.960 --> 1:24:29.880
<v Speaker 6>But I wanted to call and congratulate you, Georgia on

1:24:30.360 --> 1:24:31.680
<v Speaker 6>beautiful pronunciation.

1:24:31.920 --> 1:24:35.799
<v Speaker 2>Georgia, if you were giving her of Alisa, you did.

1:24:35.960 --> 1:24:40.559
<v Speaker 6>End up changing throughout the episode, I'm sure a few

1:24:40.680 --> 1:24:43.439
<v Speaker 6>times and started calling her Alissa.

1:24:43.600 --> 1:24:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Which is actually my Paudrey pee.

1:24:49.479 --> 1:24:54.720
<v Speaker 6>Mispronuncia my name because I think Alissa should have a

1:24:54.800 --> 1:24:55.639
<v Speaker 6>double s right.

1:24:55.880 --> 1:25:00.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so it really peeves me when people get it wrong. Yeah,

1:25:00.640 --> 1:25:01.040
<v Speaker 2>fair enough.

1:25:01.160 --> 1:25:04.400
<v Speaker 6>You were doing so beautifully, but I swear you have

1:25:04.479 --> 1:25:05.839
<v Speaker 6>to go back get the receipts.

1:25:06.280 --> 1:25:08.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you jump around a little bit. Yeah I did.

1:25:09.840 --> 1:25:11.479
<v Speaker 7>Anyway, Still love your work.

1:25:11.600 --> 1:25:13.920
<v Speaker 2>It was an awesome episode, but.

1:25:13.960 --> 1:25:14.800
<v Speaker 1>Go back and have listen.

1:25:15.400 --> 1:25:18.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh Alisa Woodie, we love you, love I did. I

1:25:18.720 --> 1:25:20.920
<v Speaker 2>realized when I was listening back to what I said

1:25:20.920 --> 1:25:22.519
<v Speaker 2>A Lissa a couple of times. I think I was

1:25:22.600 --> 1:25:26.960
<v Speaker 2>like questioning myself because I was going between Cecil and cecil.

1:25:27.439 --> 1:25:29.519
<v Speaker 2>I questioned whether it was a Lisa be right because

1:25:29.520 --> 1:25:32.560
<v Speaker 2>the name so l I s A is Lisa, so

1:25:32.680 --> 1:25:35.160
<v Speaker 2>with an in front of that is Alisa, So thank

1:25:35.240 --> 1:25:38.479
<v Speaker 2>you for crediting me, sorry for also getting it wrong

1:25:38.600 --> 1:25:39.240
<v Speaker 2>as well.

1:25:39.400 --> 1:25:39.559
<v Speaker 5>Well.

1:25:39.600 --> 1:25:43.280
<v Speaker 1>We have part two of this speak pipe as well.

1:25:43.640 --> 1:25:46.680
<v Speaker 1>That comes from our good friend Woody and Lisa A

1:25:46.760 --> 1:25:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Lisa Woody one in the same ready for this, Yes, hello, sorry.

1:25:50.600 --> 1:25:51.400
<v Speaker 2>It's Woody again.

1:25:51.800 --> 1:25:53.320
<v Speaker 1>I just need to clarify.

1:25:54.000 --> 1:25:58.600
<v Speaker 6>I am aware that mispronunciate is not a word I

1:25:59.200 --> 1:26:02.560
<v Speaker 6>believe I said in my previous speaker.

1:26:04.520 --> 1:26:04.640
<v Speaker 2>An.

1:26:04.880 --> 1:26:06.400
<v Speaker 1>I guess it serves me right for going in.

1:26:06.479 --> 1:26:10.280
<v Speaker 2>And correcting you. Oh my god, that's so funny because

1:26:10.320 --> 1:26:13.559
<v Speaker 2>if she didn't clarify, I assumed it was joke Dad.

1:26:13.680 --> 1:26:15.360
<v Speaker 2>But see, you know what, You've got to be able

1:26:15.360 --> 1:26:16.280
<v Speaker 2>to admit when you're wrong.

1:26:16.560 --> 1:26:19.120
<v Speaker 1>And if I ever am, I will We love a

1:26:19.160 --> 1:26:22.080
<v Speaker 1>second part as well. Looks like and you walk off

1:26:22.080 --> 1:26:25.320
<v Speaker 1>in the same direction. Oh just one more thing. This

1:26:25.439 --> 1:26:29.519
<v Speaker 1>comes from Matt, Sammy, P and g Love. I thoroughly

1:26:29.720 --> 1:26:33.280
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed when I'm casually playing a video game Final Fantasy

1:26:33.720 --> 1:26:36.680
<v Speaker 1>and I can't help but read the flavor text of

1:26:36.760 --> 1:26:40.280
<v Speaker 1>a quest as said in your podcast. I implore you

1:26:40.400 --> 1:26:44.720
<v Speaker 1>your magistrates have that, and there is there is a

1:26:44.800 --> 1:26:48.280
<v Speaker 1>great Screenshohn here where it says I employed imp I

1:26:48.439 --> 1:26:51.559
<v Speaker 1>implore you, thanks mate, We love. We don't know anything

1:26:51.600 --> 1:26:52.360
<v Speaker 1>about gaming, but.

1:26:52.439 --> 1:26:54.360
<v Speaker 2>We now we do. Now we know that that game

1:26:54.439 --> 1:26:55.519
<v Speaker 2>says I employ you at the end.

1:26:55.680 --> 1:26:59.200
<v Speaker 1>I know, but it's a final Fantasy online. But x

1:26:59.400 --> 1:27:04.080
<v Speaker 1>I V online? What do you mean Roman numerals fifteen

1:27:04.320 --> 1:27:05.280
<v Speaker 1>fifteen online?

1:27:05.560 --> 1:27:06.040
<v Speaker 2>Is that what it is?

1:27:06.080 --> 1:27:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Fifteen fifteen XIV no expert come online?

1:27:14.360 --> 1:27:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Obviously maths not my strong boy in English or Roman?

1:27:18.120 --> 1:27:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Have I got this one from Rahn? Hello? Sorry, I

1:27:20.720 --> 1:27:23.719
<v Speaker 1>don't have Instagram, so I'm sending an old fashioned email

1:27:24.360 --> 1:27:29.080
<v Speaker 1>about Elisa Lissen Lisa. About Elisa and how she managed

1:27:29.120 --> 1:27:30.880
<v Speaker 1>to get into the water tank. It looks like there

1:27:31.000 --> 1:27:34.160
<v Speaker 1>is access from the roof of the hotel itself. It

1:27:34.280 --> 1:27:36.519
<v Speaker 1>would have taken a lot of efforts, so I don't

1:27:36.520 --> 1:27:39.200
<v Speaker 1>think it answers every question, but it does look like

1:27:39.320 --> 1:27:42.160
<v Speaker 1>she could have gotten up there somehow that easily jumped

1:27:42.200 --> 1:27:43.280
<v Speaker 1>onto the tank.

1:27:43.960 --> 1:27:45.800
<v Speaker 4>Or from the hotel next hotel next door.

1:27:46.520 --> 1:27:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Also, I remember watching a YouTube video from someone who

1:27:49.320 --> 1:27:51.360
<v Speaker 1>wanted to see if they could get up the water

1:27:51.479 --> 1:27:55.040
<v Speaker 1>tanks themselves. Apparently the door to the rooftop was left

1:27:55.080 --> 1:27:58.320
<v Speaker 1>wide open. I don't think security is great at the hotel.

1:27:58.880 --> 1:28:02.599
<v Speaker 1>In my pinion, Elisa's story is a very tragic accident,

1:28:02.640 --> 1:28:04.320
<v Speaker 1>and I think it's awful that she was so far

1:28:04.439 --> 1:28:07.919
<v Speaker 1>from home and clearly suffering from a scary mental health episode.

1:28:08.200 --> 1:28:11.120
<v Speaker 1>I definitely got sucked into this because when it first broke,

1:28:11.479 --> 1:28:14.880
<v Speaker 1>but when it first broke, but now it makes me sad.

1:28:15.160 --> 1:28:17.519
<v Speaker 1>Love the podcast, guys, Thank you for your hard work.

1:28:17.600 --> 1:28:21.000
<v Speaker 1>And she's actually attached our photos of people in the

1:28:22.800 --> 1:28:23.719
<v Speaker 1>there as well, try.

1:28:25.600 --> 1:28:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Trying to do it so that were.

1:28:29.280 --> 1:28:31.360
<v Speaker 1>I've got two more let's and on two more ar Dean,

1:28:31.680 --> 1:28:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Hey ya, guys, love your work. I wanted to write

1:28:35.040 --> 1:28:36.839
<v Speaker 1>in with a theory about that Lisa.

1:28:36.680 --> 1:28:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Lamb case people are obsessed with there.

1:28:39.200 --> 1:28:41.960
<v Speaker 1>I believe that Alisa witnessed something that she shouldn't have

1:28:42.120 --> 1:28:45.880
<v Speaker 1>done soon after arriving at the hotel. The trauma of

1:28:45.960 --> 1:28:48.680
<v Speaker 1>what she witness triggered something with her mental health and

1:28:48.840 --> 1:28:50.960
<v Speaker 1>led to a strange behavior in the lead up to

1:28:51.080 --> 1:28:53.880
<v Speaker 1>her disappearance. I think she was tracked down and killed

1:28:53.920 --> 1:28:57.679
<v Speaker 1>because of what she witnessed. A lot of people seem

1:28:57.760 --> 1:29:00.320
<v Speaker 1>to think of the murder versus mental health situation as

1:29:00.360 --> 1:29:05.360
<v Speaker 1>separate theories, but I think both are not only plausible

1:29:05.520 --> 1:29:09.600
<v Speaker 1>but the most logical for future EP would love for

1:29:09.720 --> 1:29:13.960
<v Speaker 1>you to do one on the Uber County five. It's

1:29:14.040 --> 1:29:16.760
<v Speaker 1>one of the weirdest cases out Why you be a

1:29:17.400 --> 1:29:20.960
<v Speaker 1>you of the weirdest cases I've ever heard, and so

1:29:21.160 --> 1:29:23.720
<v Speaker 1>much about it is baffling. Love your work and love

1:29:23.800 --> 1:29:26.400
<v Speaker 1>how you've taken a different approach to the true crime podcast.

1:29:26.640 --> 1:29:29.559
<v Speaker 1>Love Yours Dean from Melbourne, Love.

1:29:29.439 --> 1:29:30.400
<v Speaker 2>You Dean from Melbourne.

1:29:30.439 --> 1:29:32.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to write that one down in my listen Yeah,

1:29:32.479 --> 1:29:37.000
<v Speaker 1>absolut I'm going to end on Stephanie, Hi, Sammy and Georgia.

1:29:37.200 --> 1:29:41.120
<v Speaker 1>Happy anniversary. You guys should be proud. What an impressive

1:29:41.200 --> 1:29:46.120
<v Speaker 1>milestone as a lady of impeccable podcast tastes who considers

1:29:46.160 --> 1:29:50.719
<v Speaker 1>herself to be a day one listener. NACP is the best.

1:29:51.120 --> 1:29:53.880
<v Speaker 1>I love listening every week and I'm really proud of

1:29:54.080 --> 1:29:57.200
<v Speaker 1>you both. At the top of the episode, Sammy always says,

1:29:57.320 --> 1:29:59.799
<v Speaker 1>keep leaving five star reviews, and I would, but bloody

1:30:00.280 --> 1:30:03.840
<v Speaker 1>only let you have one go anyway, keep up the

1:30:04.000 --> 1:30:08.720
<v Speaker 1>awesome work. We love and appreciate you, steph How nice

1:30:08.800 --> 1:30:11.960
<v Speaker 1>is that? And then she writes, PS tell g to

1:30:12.080 --> 1:30:15.920
<v Speaker 1>check her ig dms. She's missing so many hilarious slash

1:30:15.920 --> 1:30:20.320
<v Speaker 1>horrendous replies to her for is in my humble sorry

1:30:20.439 --> 1:30:22.400
<v Speaker 1>is dead? How great is that? That's so funny?

1:30:22.479 --> 1:30:23.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that's amazing.

1:30:23.880 --> 1:30:27.160
<v Speaker 1>Isn't that the best? We absolutely love hearing from your listeners,

1:30:27.240 --> 1:30:30.799
<v Speaker 1>So please do right in Sammy at just another company

1:30:30.920 --> 1:30:35.520
<v Speaker 1>dot com dot a. You leave us a goddamn voicemail.

1:30:35.600 --> 1:30:37.439
<v Speaker 1>You can do that. All the links are below. You

1:30:37.479 --> 1:30:40.519
<v Speaker 1>can watch us on YouTube. All these episodes go up.

1:30:40.680 --> 1:30:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Episodes go up on there. What should they do? Should

1:30:45.000 --> 1:30:46.439
<v Speaker 1>they leave a five star rating.

1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:48.280
<v Speaker 2>Living Yes, they need to leave a five star rating,

1:30:48.320 --> 1:30:50.479
<v Speaker 2>five sour review and follow us on TikTok and Instagram

1:30:50.600 --> 1:30:52.800
<v Speaker 2>and YouTube add not another crime podcast? And then they

1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:54.480
<v Speaker 2>need to also tell us a poetery.

1:30:54.200 --> 1:30:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Pee Oh god, you love? Would you love to tell

1:30:56.400 --> 1:30:57.880
<v Speaker 1>me a poetry? Peace for today?

1:30:58.120 --> 1:31:00.200
<v Speaker 2>So I have one that has been influenced by May

1:31:00.280 --> 1:31:05.439
<v Speaker 2>weekend away at the festival, and it's actually a double

1:31:05.520 --> 1:31:08.960
<v Speaker 2>edged pauldry peeve. So there are two peeves, but they

1:31:09.000 --> 1:31:11.760
<v Speaker 2>are the opposite of each other. So I do realize

1:31:11.960 --> 1:31:16.439
<v Speaker 2>that there's no way of fixing it because both options

1:31:16.479 --> 1:31:19.960
<v Speaker 2>of what happened now peeve me. The first part of

1:31:20.040 --> 1:31:26.160
<v Speaker 2>it is encuse bands doing Encouse. He's a peeve because

1:31:26.200 --> 1:31:29.280
<v Speaker 2>it's like, just play all your song like obviously, if

1:31:29.360 --> 1:31:32.439
<v Speaker 2>you haven't played your biggest song, we don't believe that

1:31:32.439 --> 1:31:36.360
<v Speaker 2>you're actually leaving right, don't waste our time, don't you

1:31:36.400 --> 1:31:38.720
<v Speaker 2>don't need to big up your own ego getting us

1:31:38.960 --> 1:31:41.559
<v Speaker 2>all screen for you to come. But then the one

1:31:41.600 --> 1:31:46.000
<v Speaker 2>web side of that is because that is so common

1:31:47.120 --> 1:31:50.160
<v Speaker 2>I have found out when Boy and Bear performed on Sunday,

1:31:51.680 --> 1:31:54.519
<v Speaker 2>I found a new peeve and that is when there

1:31:54.600 --> 1:32:00.479
<v Speaker 2>is no one okay, because it's now such an expected

1:32:00.560 --> 1:32:04.320
<v Speaker 2>things accepted on cour on course. So when they finished

1:32:04.360 --> 1:32:06.439
<v Speaker 2>and said thank you and then they walked off and

1:32:06.520 --> 1:32:07.920
<v Speaker 2>then they didn't come back, I was like.

1:32:08.280 --> 1:32:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh, okay, I guess that's it there.

1:32:09.680 --> 1:32:14.439
<v Speaker 2>So actually peeve is the former. I don't like encorse,

1:32:14.439 --> 1:32:18.960
<v Speaker 2>they're unnecessary, but because they're so common now there is

1:32:19.040 --> 1:32:20.760
<v Speaker 2>a new people, which is when they don't do them.

1:32:20.840 --> 1:32:22.800
<v Speaker 2>So I think Boy and Man needs to be setting

1:32:22.840 --> 1:32:24.679
<v Speaker 2>the trend and everyone needs to follow them. Just play

1:32:24.720 --> 1:32:26.320
<v Speaker 2>your best songs and get out.

1:32:26.200 --> 1:32:28.040
<v Speaker 1>And you can get out. Well. I will say a

1:32:28.160 --> 1:32:32.160
<v Speaker 1>similar thing in that shows that go way over. So

1:32:32.720 --> 1:32:35.640
<v Speaker 1>during like a festal something no, no, no, like a

1:32:35.720 --> 1:32:37.800
<v Speaker 1>festival season something, You're going to see a comedy show,

1:32:38.320 --> 1:32:40.720
<v Speaker 1>comedy festival, and that goes ten minutes over, so the

1:32:40.800 --> 1:32:43.880
<v Speaker 1>next show goes ten minutes over to the next show.

1:32:44.360 --> 1:32:47.760
<v Speaker 1>And I did it myself. So when I recorded my

1:32:47.920 --> 1:32:50.920
<v Speaker 1>show at the recorded it for The Comedy of You,

1:32:52.240 --> 1:32:53.599
<v Speaker 1>I went so over.

1:32:53.800 --> 1:32:54.719
<v Speaker 2>You peeved yourself.

1:32:54.840 --> 1:32:56.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, I didn't even know that I went over. The

1:32:56.720 --> 1:32:58.200
<v Speaker 1>reason that I went over is cause our good friend

1:32:58.240 --> 1:33:00.639
<v Speaker 1>Joe Creasy messaged me and so I wanted to stay

1:33:00.680 --> 1:33:02.280
<v Speaker 1>for the ending, but it just went for like it

1:33:02.320 --> 1:33:04.640
<v Speaker 1>went way over. I was like, no, I didn't. And

1:33:04.840 --> 1:33:07.320
<v Speaker 1>because I so up on the it was just after

1:33:07.400 --> 1:33:10.960
<v Speaker 1>daylight savings and they hadn't changed the clock, so I

1:33:11.040 --> 1:33:12.800
<v Speaker 1>thought I was way under, and I was going, oh no,

1:33:15.160 --> 1:33:17.040
<v Speaker 1>oh my god. And I finished the show going, oh shit,

1:33:17.640 --> 1:33:20.840
<v Speaker 1>I remember everything I remember, and then I looked at

1:33:20.880 --> 1:33:23.320
<v Speaker 1>my watch. I was like, oh no, and I've gone like, yeah,

1:33:23.320 --> 1:33:25.960
<v Speaker 1>I've gone to full, like fifteen minutes over or something

1:33:26.360 --> 1:33:28.920
<v Speaker 1>like more than that. But because the show had an

1:33:29.000 --> 1:33:31.439
<v Speaker 1>opening and all this other stuff and we started to

1:33:31.479 --> 1:33:33.840
<v Speaker 1>film and everything, so that went way over. But oh

1:33:33.960 --> 1:33:36.479
<v Speaker 1>my god, and so yeah, I did it myself. And

1:33:36.640 --> 1:33:39.120
<v Speaker 1>so when you peeve myself. But when you're like at

1:33:39.120 --> 1:33:41.439
<v Speaker 1>a comedy festival or something and you've lined up to

1:33:41.479 --> 1:33:41.920
<v Speaker 1>see two.

1:33:41.920 --> 1:33:44.240
<v Speaker 2>Or three shows that night, you've only got there.

1:33:44.200 --> 1:33:47.479
<v Speaker 1>You've only got ten minutes run, and it's really hard

1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:50.000
<v Speaker 1>when something goes over and you had to run as

1:33:50.080 --> 1:33:51.479
<v Speaker 1>quickly as you came to the next one, and you

1:33:51.560 --> 1:33:53.479
<v Speaker 1>missed like the first five minutes of that one. I

1:33:53.600 --> 1:33:57.960
<v Speaker 1>did that once when I was maybe fifteen years old, no,

1:33:58.040 --> 1:34:02.680
<v Speaker 1>maybe fifteen or sixteen, must have been fifteen, and came

1:34:02.800 --> 1:34:06.040
<v Speaker 1>up to the city and my brother and I went

1:34:06.120 --> 1:34:09.280
<v Speaker 1>to go and see Judith Lucy, and that the deal

1:34:09.600 --> 1:34:11.240
<v Speaker 1>was I got to pick one and he got to

1:34:11.280 --> 1:34:14.160
<v Speaker 1>pick one. So we went to see Judith Lucy. Obviously

1:34:14.520 --> 1:34:19.000
<v Speaker 1>choice was my choice and his was Arch Barker. Just

1:34:19.080 --> 1:34:20.640
<v Speaker 1>in case Barker is listening, I don't hate you, but

1:34:21.040 --> 1:34:23.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't hate Ed Barker. You wouldn't have chosen I

1:34:23.080 --> 1:34:26.200
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have chosen Baker. And so we're walking out of

1:34:26.720 --> 1:34:29.760
<v Speaker 1>We have to leave early because like it's like, oh

1:34:29.800 --> 1:34:31.720
<v Speaker 1>my god, Judith Lucy started ten minutes later. Bah blah

1:34:31.840 --> 1:34:33.400
<v Speaker 1>blah and we're walking out, and I really don't want

1:34:33.400 --> 1:34:36.320
<v Speaker 1>to walk out, and we have to walk out and

1:34:36.880 --> 1:34:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Judith Lucy leans down in mine and my brother's face

1:34:39.240 --> 1:34:41.519
<v Speaker 1>because we had to pass her to walk out. I

1:34:41.560 --> 1:34:43.040
<v Speaker 1>had to go by the stage to walk out of

1:34:43.040 --> 1:34:45.360
<v Speaker 1>the door. And she leans down and she goes, what

1:34:45.439 --> 1:34:47.880
<v Speaker 1>are you doing? And we went I went, oh, my

1:34:48.120 --> 1:34:50.240
<v Speaker 1>brother book tickets to go and see another show, and

1:34:51.479 --> 1:34:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Judith goes, who is it? Then and then my brother said,

1:34:56.160 --> 1:35:00.840
<v Speaker 1>arch Barker, arch Barker, He's not even fucking fun And

1:35:00.960 --> 1:35:03.920
<v Speaker 1>then and then as we were leaving, she just kept shouting,

1:35:04.160 --> 1:35:05.479
<v Speaker 1>He's not even fucking funny.

1:35:06.400 --> 1:35:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm a legend.

1:35:09.479 --> 1:35:12.599
<v Speaker 1>So sorry, my queen. I'm so sorry, my beautiful queen,

1:35:12.800 --> 1:35:15.519
<v Speaker 1>the best comedian in the world in my opinion, yelling

1:35:15.560 --> 1:35:16.840
<v Speaker 1>at us the Narchbuck's not funny.

1:35:16.880 --> 1:35:19.879
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I agree, I agree.

1:35:20.280 --> 1:35:26.959
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't be by myself anyway. Thank you, everyone, Also.

1:35:26.800 --> 1:35:29.439
<v Speaker 2>Quickly talking about comedians, and a shout out to our

1:35:30.040 --> 1:35:33.000
<v Speaker 2>good friend Joel Crazy you just brought up. Shout out

1:35:33.040 --> 1:35:35.519
<v Speaker 2>to Joel Creesy. He has just announced he's got his

1:35:35.760 --> 1:35:41.000
<v Speaker 2>own national radio show on Nova lunchtimes, starting I think

1:35:41.040 --> 1:35:44.320
<v Speaker 2>in April. So Congratulations to our friend Joel.

1:35:44.560 --> 1:35:46.080
<v Speaker 1>Congratulations to our friend.

1:35:46.439 --> 1:35:49.519
<v Speaker 2>Congratulations to our friend Joel, even though he is on

1:35:49.640 --> 1:35:51.160
<v Speaker 2>a competing network to me.

1:35:52.720 --> 1:35:57.080
<v Speaker 1>And also the other thing is that we hope that

1:35:57.240 --> 1:36:00.320
<v Speaker 1>you enjoy the documentary on Lucy let Be as well.

1:36:00.760 --> 1:36:02.920
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for this awful, awful story this week, but

1:36:02.960 --> 1:36:05.000
<v Speaker 1>we'll see you next week. Listeners.

1:36:05.360 --> 1:36:07.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to make Sammy wat cheated rivalry this week.

1:36:07.800 --> 1:36:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. We're going to the cottage

1:36:10.439 --> 1:36:13.080
<v Speaker 1>baby talk, well talk stuff