Speaker 1: On the tenth of October twenty and twenty two, a
Speaker 1: thirty three year old neonatal nurse was on trial. She
Speaker 1: was charged with seven counts of murder and ten cases
Speaker 1: of attempted murder, all which took place at the Countess
Speaker 1: of Chester Hospital between twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen. The
Speaker 1: magnitude of this story cannot be understated. The victims were
Speaker 1: just babies. This is the case of Britain's most prolific
Speaker 1: female child serial killer, Lucy let Be.
Speaker 2: It's just a disgusting story, it really is. I'm sure
Speaker 2: you'll tell it well, but I know the case that
Speaker 2: it's absolutely horrific. You ready not really? Oh but I
Speaker 2: was getting some kisses on my knee from Diggs just then,
Speaker 2: so it's going to know. He knows that we're going
Speaker 2: to need some support through this year.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody, welcome to not Another crime podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Georgia Love, I'm Saving Peterson. I'm a journalist. I am not.
Speaker 2: But you are a damn good person.
Speaker 3: Thank you for saying that. To dig.
Speaker 4: Dig just opened my legs like that.
Speaker 1: I don't like that at all. That's very weird. He's
Speaker 1: just licking you. You can tap him on the nose
Speaker 1: if you want to do.
Speaker 2: It's quite nice. I've been away for three days and
Speaker 2: he's missed me.
Speaker 1: He missed. It's actually really nice. I did the same
Speaker 1: at the door.
Speaker 2: Yes, kissed my legs, licking my shits lovely as you
Speaker 2: do what i've You're always Hey, guys, if you don't
Speaker 2: want to listen to us talking about this kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: you can skip ahead to just listen to the story.
Speaker 4: The time is in the show, is it?
Speaker 1: And I heard from Stickers by Claude today. She was
Speaker 1: very excited to hear everything on the podcast last week
Speaker 1: and was very excited that we read out her letter
Speaker 1: and opened the stickers yet again.
Speaker 2: We love them. And guess what, we actually got more
Speaker 2: stickers this weekend and magnets from a beautiful listener of
Speaker 2: ours named Emilie, who has left us big pipe on
Speaker 2: the pod before.
Speaker 1: Yes, she has.
Speaker 2: And I was down in my favorite place on Earth, Tasmania,
Speaker 2: for a food and wine festival, and this gorgeous girl
Speaker 2: came up to me with an envelope in her hands
Speaker 2: that said to Sammy and g and digs and pawdry
Speaker 2: and our beautiful listener, Emilie heard me talking about that
Speaker 2: that was going to this food wine for all, yes
Speaker 2: in Lonceston, and brought a gift with her of stickers
Speaker 2: and magnets that she had made for us and found
Speaker 2: me at the festival and gave me them. And I
Speaker 2: will say, first of all, a huge thank you to Emilie.
Speaker 2: You were so sweet and it's just so beautiful to
Speaker 2: think of us at all at alone bring me presents,
Speaker 2: and it's so lovely to meet listeners out in the wild.
Speaker 2: But can I say, Sammy pe I'm never going to
Speaker 2: be able to travel without you ever again, because over
Speaker 2: the three days carried, I need you to carry my things. Yes,
Speaker 2: I had an overwhelming number of people come up to
Speaker 2: me and first of all say they listened to the podcast,
Speaker 2: which made me so happy. Everyone said, we're Sammy. We
Speaker 2: thought he would be here.
Speaker 1: So you had Gareth, I.
Speaker 2: Did have my friend Garth. And we're not allowed to
Speaker 2: travel alone anymore. So I'm booking your festival ticket.
Speaker 4: For next year right now.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You're in advance. Was it amazing?
Speaker 2: It was so funny. It is just the most fun
Speaker 2: we can This is not critty Spoon in any way.
Speaker 2: Spoon just a Boy British India and Boy and Bear
Speaker 2: with the music act. Oh yeah, fantastic music obviously, fantastic
Speaker 2: food and wine because it's Tasmanian. The weather was beautiful.
Speaker 2: It's just in a big park in City Park and
Speaker 2: loncestein and there's food and wine stalls and different stages
Speaker 2: set up everywhere, and you just like pick a spot
Speaker 2: for the day. And we just like had our little crew.
Speaker 2: There were four of us, and then just had friends
Speaker 2: that live in Tazzy kind of come and go and
Speaker 2: join us for a couple of hours and then you know,
Speaker 2: move on somewhere else and we'd have other friends come
Speaker 2: and it was just three days of just drinking and
Speaker 2: chatting and catching up and eating son a hot jam donut.
Speaker 2: I did not have a single hot jam donut. I
Speaker 2: had some, okay, no churros, you know, man, I'm not a.
Speaker 1: Sweet scallop, That's true. There is a store your whole
Speaker 1: birthday cake in the rain crying correct.
Speaker 2: There was a stall there with the funniest name I've
Speaker 2: ever seen, because it just like no way makes sense
Speaker 2: from what I can ascertain, and that right.
Speaker 1: That broke the internet.
Speaker 2: The store is called Smallest pancakes.
Speaker 5: I saw you.
Speaker 2: Smallest pancakes.
Speaker 1: Explain yourself.
Speaker 2: I can't explain it. It doesn't make sense. So funny,
Speaker 2: smallest pancakes.
Speaker 1: Festivals with pancakescakes and they make them for festivals, don't know, doesn't.
Speaker 2: Make any sense. And me and my grammar nerd friends,
Speaker 2: it was the funniest thing.
Speaker 1: No, you didn't want to find the answer. I couldn't left.
Speaker 4: And that's my humor.
Speaker 2: It's too many pluralless. I think it's top dear, that's
Speaker 2: so funny. Can you tell me about your weekend?
Speaker 1: I had my own festivallet here at home. Diggs and
Speaker 1: I had a bottle of jams. We danced. Hey, we
Speaker 1: should go hungry Jack's on the weekend.
Speaker 2: Oh my, what can I say?
Speaker 1: Sorry about that?
Speaker 2: So Jans is a Tasmanian wine.
Speaker 1: Correct.
Speaker 2: Guess what they didn't have at Festivale?
Speaker 1: Chance they haven't done a few years years they have
Speaker 1: not done FESTIVALI and this is my formal complaint to Jans.
Speaker 2: Go back to Festivale. Please. There is no way you're
Speaker 2: not making enough money from it, because my family and
Speaker 2: I and all my friends have I'm certain kept you
Speaker 2: in business for many years. So if you need us
Speaker 2: to play more per bottle. We actually always comment on
Speaker 2: the fact that it's cellar door prices, but at a
Speaker 2: food and wine festival like it's wild, it's so good,
Speaker 2: So we always commented about the fact that it was
Speaker 2: really affordable. If you need to bump up the prices,
Speaker 2: we're still going to buy it a promise.
Speaker 1: The girls from Jams came to my comedy festival show.
Speaker 1: Yeah the best Emily Fitzgerald, who I bloody loved it.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I said. He last name Emily,
Speaker 1: and then during oh yeah, then they took me out
Speaker 1: for drinks at another time and I went out to there.
Speaker 1: They had like a food and wine day in Melbourne
Speaker 1: and they took me out for that. I drank my
Speaker 1: body weight because it was so much fun, and then
Speaker 1: I was like, like they invited us there, me and
Speaker 1: my friend Brom But then it was also like we
Speaker 1: shouldn't drink too much because it will make fools of
Speaker 1: ourselves and everything. The only two people that were drinking
Speaker 1: and not spitting into buckets there was everyone was professional and.
Speaker 2: Btoons has reminded me of.
Speaker 1: What can we do spitting in a bucket?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Can we do.
Speaker 2: A big rest in pieces to Catherine O'Hara.
Speaker 1: What's batoons? What's that?
Speaker 2: My favorite line from Ship's Creek is when she said
Speaker 2: that she took her daughter Alexis on a holiday to
Speaker 2: France and Alexis goes, yeah, I was eight and it
Speaker 2: was a wine to and she goes, well, you could
Speaker 2: have used the spittoons like the other children.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen all the ship's craik what yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay, well once we're through sea change, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because Katherinehara, I'm a huge fan of her from improvised films.
Speaker 1: So the reason I love her is because she was
Speaker 1: waiting for waiting for her Yeah, and welcome to golfin
Speaker 1: whatever that is, waiting for Guffman a mighty win in Show,
Speaker 1: Best in Show for your consideration. She did so many
Speaker 1: amazing films where she acted in them, but it was
Speaker 1: improvised and she's just the funniest person in every film.
Speaker 1: And then and then you know Beatlejuice Home alone, like
Speaker 1: just an incredible.
Speaker 4: Actor, absolutely amazing.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that she like she's so she was
Speaker 1: so young as well, like she was just in the
Speaker 1: studio the TV show member.
Speaker 2: I know like like in the last year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was just incredible.
Speaker 2: A huge, huge shock, you know, our time in Australia
Speaker 2: waking up and opening up social media and that's all
Speaker 2: that was. It's really I very rarely get kind of
Speaker 2: affected by celebrity dance because it's sad, but I don't
Speaker 2: know them back to me. This one really really upset me.
Speaker 1: She seemed like a beautiful person.
Speaker 2: She said, she's just yeah, yeah, like you said, you
Speaker 2: we didn't know she was sick. She was only seventy one.
Speaker 1: And I think I think it's like Rob Ryaner and like,
Speaker 1: I mean, it is. It is such an awful, awful
Speaker 1: time in general, really and then and then you know
Speaker 1: these deaths. You know, he's got oh my god, like
Speaker 1: a comedy another comedy legend that was just like inspired everybody,
Speaker 1: like Katain Hahara, like kind of the understated person in comedy.
Speaker 2: Yes, every single.
Speaker 1: Everyone was like, oh, yeah, she's the funniest person in
Speaker 1: the world. But everyone said that about her. I kind
Speaker 1: of feel the something about Julia Louis Dreyfuss. Yes, she's
Speaker 1: the funniest person. She never get number one, though, but
Speaker 1: she is like when you actually cannot think of her. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Julie Luid Dreyfus, amazing. Yeah, that is there.
Speaker 2: Reading the book in the at the moment, and the character,
Speaker 2: the main character's cat is called Julia Luis Dreyfust. It's
Speaker 2: good a cat name, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I like it? God, we used to laugh. Hey we
Speaker 1: still like we still laugh?
Speaker 2: Can we talk about that? This is not a funny topic.
Speaker 2: This is very serious to me. The last time we recorded, Yes,
Speaker 2: you said, well, I was away in non Senston.
Speaker 1: You were going to watch heated Rivalry?
Speaker 2: Did you do it?
Speaker 1: Can tell you what I watched it instead? Morning was
Speaker 1: You've never wanted?
Speaker 2: Warning was before?
Speaker 1: Now what now? I watched an episode back in the day,
Speaker 1: one episode fantastic, so good.
Speaker 2: The first season, watch that you got hungry Jacks drank Jans,
Speaker 2: had a dance party with digs and watched.
Speaker 1: Had a mental breakdown. I watched. I watched that someone
Speaker 1: had a mental collapse, just dancing with more.
Speaker 2: Morning was give me your burg.
Speaker 1: No. But so I had that on and I got
Speaker 1: up to the second season.
Speaker 4: Isn't the first season brilliant?
Speaker 1: It's amazing. I don't I don't really know where the
Speaker 1: second season's going. But I'm loving it so far. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how much I watched. So no answer to your question,
Speaker 1: I haven't watched Heated Rivalry, but I've seen many memoirs
Speaker 1: about it. I've seen many gifts about it. I've seen
Speaker 1: so much going on with these two homosexual men who
Speaker 1: play hockey, and I can't wait to see this two
Speaker 1: homosexual men play hockey, make love, fall in love, and
Speaker 1: go to the cottage. It's all about he knows it.
Speaker 2: My close personal friend Connor Story is hosting SNL this week.
Speaker 2: My close personal friend.
Speaker 1: Connor's Story, Connor Story.
Speaker 2: Yes, their actual name, yes, And who's that Ilia Rosanov.
Speaker 1: And that's one of the characters, one of the main gays. Yes,
Speaker 1: I get it now.
Speaker 2: Yes, he's hosting SNL. Oh, so we can maybe watch
Speaker 2: that as your entry into the problem with you not
Speaker 2: watching it while I wasn't here is now I'm going
Speaker 2: to have to watch it with you, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to be absolutely like heinous to watch it with.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we've got two nights together this week
Speaker 1: before you your head off again and go to Tasmania
Speaker 1: again this weekend.
Speaker 2: This weekend, I have a wine festival in Hobar I'm
Speaker 2: working at this one. This one is a job, not
Speaker 2: just pleas here.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't anyway doing the worm on the dance floor.
Speaker 4: Try to bring in the two.
Speaker 1: If you can't work, to work work and pleasure.
Speaker 2: If you can't have pleasure, I have work. You know,
Speaker 2: as they say, that's actually going to be on my tombstone?
Speaker 1: Could that be your catchphrase or not? Cat trase? But
Speaker 1: what you say when they say madam business or pleasure
Speaker 1: and you say both? I mean for the wine festival?
Speaker 1: Is that good? You could say that. That could be
Speaker 1: kind of phone. You could say that no, no heated
Speaker 1: rivalry just yet.
Speaker 2: But guys, can you bully Sammy with me? Please? Get
Speaker 2: onto your Instagram at Sammy Peterson Unofficial. Get onto our
Speaker 2: Instagram and our TikTok YouTube not another crime podcast.
Speaker 1: Can you freely follow that? You can anyone follow that?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Can you just freely follow that?
Speaker 2: Freely follow it and it is free to follow.
Speaker 1: You don't even have to pay for everyone doing that
Speaker 1: listens to this.
Speaker 2: I don't understand. No, I don't know why that. I
Speaker 2: can't answer for you because I follow all of them
Speaker 2: for free.
Speaker 1: For free. That's amazing stuff. Okay, so check that out and.
Speaker 2: You can follow us and then bully Sammy into watching
Speaker 2: Heated Rivalry.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, I'll watch Heated Rivalry if you
Speaker 1: watch my comedy special. It's on YouTube dot com. Check
Speaker 1: it out. It's on YouTube dot com. I went to
Speaker 1: Comedy Republic on the weekend where I filmed my comedy special,
Speaker 1: and I tell you what, drinks were flowing. I got
Speaker 1: free drinks from all three of the owners.
Speaker 2: Oh my, because.
Speaker 1: They've said, they've said and well they haven't said that.
Speaker 1: I've said that, and they put me in the newsletter
Speaker 1: this week. It's beautiful. I feel. Yeah. I'm at the
Speaker 1: top of the newsletter. You're at the topic godamn game
Speaker 1: and the bottom, top and bottom heated riby reference. And
Speaker 1: I will be celebrating you celebrate and watch it right
Speaker 1: now on the Comedy Republic channel. I would have you
Speaker 1: watched it, yes with you? Oh yeh yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Got a little first little tease part of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm very excited about it. That's on YouTube dot com.
Speaker 1: If you want to watch that, watch it.
Speaker 2: Tonight on my actual TV wall, like I'm going to
Speaker 2: and watch it with I don't have surround sound. I
Speaker 2: live in an old apartment and I don't really care
Speaker 2: about technology, but I'm gonna watch it and maybe like
Speaker 2: play the podcast on my phone, like on the back
Speaker 2: of the couch so they' will be surround sound. I
Speaker 2: guess do you want to come over and is it
Speaker 2: on the other side of me? And then you can
Speaker 2: talk about.
Speaker 1: But if you watch my comedy special, go to the
Speaker 1: Comedy Public YouTube channel. Check that out. Do you love?
Speaker 1: You've got anything to plug? When's your goddamn podcast coming back? Oh?
Speaker 1: This one soon? I've caught a great plug.
Speaker 2: Ye, I can't remember the date that it's launching, but
Speaker 2: I've got my first interview for season eight.
Speaker 1: Of snotting into the microphone like you did. Last Week's
Speaker 1: got a great clip of that. Don't worry about that's
Speaker 1: coming out at the time of recording. It'll well, iDrive
Speaker 1: recording is coming out. It'll ad.
Speaker 2: Season eight. If everyone has an X. My other podcast
Speaker 2: is coming back. It is confirmed. I have my first
Speaker 2: interview for this season this week.
Speaker 1: You got John Goodman.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not interviewing John Goodman. No.
Speaker 1: Remember your friend our friend, I'd like to say our friend. Bam.
Speaker 1: You didn't pull me up on it, but for some
Speaker 1: reason got really aggresive, said our friend Bam. When I
Speaker 1: met one of the first times, I said to her,
Speaker 1: because she's work with the project, I said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: who have you interviewed Squidward? And she goes, no, one
Speaker 1: haven't I've even met squid because people all night Bam reckon,
Speaker 1: she's interviewed celebrities at the project. She hadn't ever met Squidward.
Speaker 1: Just love getting slightly wrong quid Quidward. Oh, I worked at.
Speaker 2: A place that interviewed celebrities.
Speaker 1: If you interview interviewed Quidward. I would like to say
Speaker 1: as well, thank you to all the people that continually
Speaker 1: write to us. We bloody love it. We'll be doing
Speaker 1: the mail bag section at the end. You get right
Speaker 1: into me at samit just another company dot com dot au.
Speaker 1: You can leave us a voicemail. We call that a pipe.
Speaker 1: The links are below in the show notes love hearing
Speaker 1: your voice.
Speaker 2: I met another listener at the airport on my way
Speaker 2: to lon Sesst. She was going down for festival as well.
Speaker 2: She is the one that owns the dress shop in
Speaker 2: Port Douglas, and she'd written us an email, I mean
Speaker 2: here at the well, not another crime podcast listeners out
Speaker 2: there in the wild, you.
Speaker 1: Just never know when you might meet I know they'll
Speaker 1: spring out and get you. You can never be safe
Speaker 1: in this world. The Port Douglas beautiful frocks, I imagine, Yes,
Speaker 1: was she wearing one?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Was she looking good at the airport?
Speaker 2: Oh? She was looking great at the airport. I was going, okay, guys,
Speaker 2: I was going to take some photos and put them
Speaker 2: up on the podcast page, like this is what you
Speaker 2: can wear at the airport, this is what you can't
Speaker 2: wear at the airport. But then I realized it's not
Speaker 2: a nice thing to do to take an unsolicited photo
Speaker 2: of someone put it on the internet saying this is
Speaker 2: a bad outfit. So I didn't do that.
Speaker 1: I think, and may be wrong on this. It was
Speaker 1: either Ben Lawrence or one of the many Emmas or
Speaker 1: Gemmas that listening to the podcast sent in a photo
Speaker 1: of someone on the plane, Alex maybe it was Alex
Speaker 1: oh anyway, but they had a a sparkly hat on
Speaker 1: the plane. And when g would be happy about this
Speaker 1: sparkly top beautiful?
Speaker 2: It was a picture show. Yes with Colombia. No, not
Speaker 2: great McLaughlin, Nope.
Speaker 1: If that's that's another crime.
Speaker 2: Well, it was found not guilty.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean allegedly crime. Hey, everybody, we're going to
Speaker 1: get into this episode this week. I want to say
Speaker 1: that I had not heard of this crime before and
Speaker 1: it was a real surprise to me. It is a really,
Speaker 1: really awful crime. There is at the time of recording,
Speaker 1: a Netflix documentary coming out in just a few days, and.
Speaker 2: A huge trigger warning for this episode that it deals
Speaker 2: with the death of babies, not even just children, babies.
Speaker 1: And by the time you listen to this, the Netflix
Speaker 1: dot will be out and hey will either recommend it
Speaker 1: or we won't.
Speaker 2: But we can't tell you now because we don't know.
Speaker 2: And also, you know, somebody did all the research for
Speaker 2: this without even having the Docker to watch.
Speaker 1: That's right, so some of us is incorrect. No, it's
Speaker 1: not check it ready for this. Yeah, wolves are easy
Speaker 1: to spot. Wolves wolves like uh huh. Those are sorts
Speaker 1: of wolves. Sharp teeth, yellow eyes, are hunger that shows
Speaker 1: itself in the way they move. But the most dangerous
Speaker 1: wolves learn early how to soften their steps, how to
Speaker 1: lower their gaze, how to wear gentleness like a borrowed skin.
Speaker 1: In this place, softness was the uniform voices stayed low,
Speaker 1: hands were careful, Smiles were meant to reassure. Lives small
Speaker 1: enough to fit in the crook of an arm depended
Speaker 1: on routines, regular safety, trust, and the unsp oaken faith
Speaker 1: that those who stood watched through the night were there
Speaker 1: to actually protect, never to do harm. No one thought
Speaker 1: to question the figure who blended so completely into that promise,
Speaker 1: who spoke the language of care fluently, who appeared when
Speaker 1: alarm sounded, there to protect, not to harm, who seemed
Speaker 1: to grieve when things went wrong, grieve with them. This
Speaker 1: is a story of a wolf in sheep's clothing, not
Speaker 1: one that proud at the edges, not one that prowled
Speaker 1: at the edges, but one that stood at the center
Speaker 1: of the flock. It is a story about how evil
Speaker 1: does not always announce itself with noise or chaos. You
Speaker 1: can't always listen for the chickens in the pen, But
Speaker 1: sometimes it arrives quietly, wrapped in kindness, waiting for the
Speaker 1: moment when no one is looking closely enough to see
Speaker 1: the teeth beneath the wall. This is a story of
Speaker 1: loose let.
Speaker 2: Bea that was beautifully written, and I'm tearing up already
Speaker 2: that was really beautifully written.
Speaker 4: It's just such a fucking woman, I know.
Speaker 1: Lucy let Be was described by her colleagues as quiet,
Speaker 1: ordinary and entirely unassuming. To those who worked alongside her,
Speaker 1: she was a kind and dedicated nurse, someone passionate about
Speaker 1: her job, and wholly trusted by the people who depended
Speaker 1: on her care the most. A clear trigger warning before
Speaker 1: we go any further on this, jez Or already mentioned this,
Speaker 1: but this is not an easy story to hear or
Speaker 1: to tell. At the heart of it lies a deeply
Speaker 1: unsettling question. Is Lucy let Be a serial killer responsible
Speaker 1: for the deaths and society's most vulnerable, or is she innocent,
Speaker 1: a scapegoat used to mask profound and longstanding systematic failures
Speaker 1: within the NHS. Let Be herself has claimed that her
Speaker 1: unit was chronically overstretched, dangerously understaffed, and routinely unable to
Speaker 1: provide the standard of care its patients required. For those
Speaker 1: unfamiliar the NHS, the National Health Service is United Kingdom's
Speaker 1: publicly funded healthcare system. It provides comprehensive medical care to
Speaker 1: local to legal residents, with most services free at the
Speaker 1: point of use and funded primarily through general tax the
Speaker 1: NHS is not a single entity, but a collective term
Speaker 1: for four special separate systems NHS England, NHS Scotland, NHS Wales.
Speaker 2: I want to guess the next one, NHS Florida.
Speaker 1: Got You're so close, and Health and Social Care in
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland so close though, just just down the road.
Speaker 1: G and I are not parents, but this episode deals
Speaker 1: with themes that you may find deeply distressing, whether you're
Speaker 1: a parent or not. We encourage you to skip this
Speaker 1: episode and return to one of our other fun ones
Speaker 1: if that's what you want to do. I personally found
Speaker 1: researching this case extremely difficult, as always were deliberately avoided,
Speaker 1: including the most graphic and disturbing details. This is not
Speaker 1: another crime podcast and there are other places for those accounts.
Speaker 1: Our focus here is on understanding the story, not sensationalizing it.
Speaker 1: In October twenty twenty two, Lucy let Be was accused
Speaker 1: of attempting to murder twenty two infants. Twenty two, Lucy
Speaker 1: became known as one of Britain's most prolific child serial killers.
Speaker 1: The most haunting.
Speaker 2: Aspect, sorry to interrupt, even just saying one of is
Speaker 2: fucking horrified.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but yeah, but we'll go into
Speaker 1: the other people that the other in this as well.
Speaker 1: The most haunting aspect of the story to most is
Speaker 1: that Lucy does not seem like a serial killer. How
Speaker 1: not many people really do. We look at Jeffrey Dharmer
Speaker 1: or John Wayne Gacy and there's something about them that
Speaker 1: you go, oh, yeah, that could be a serial killer,
Speaker 1: and we can see a serial killer in that instant.
Speaker 1: It's an uncomfortable phrase, but one the media adopted Lucy
Speaker 1: Lepby's killing field. The hospital at the center of that
Speaker 1: label was a Countess of Chester hospital, located in Chester
Speaker 1: and serving the local population of North Wales. Around two
Speaker 1: thousand babies are born there each year WOW, and the
Speaker 1: hospital includes a special care unit dedicated to providing round
Speaker 1: the clock treatment for the most vulnerable infants. Historically, deaths
Speaker 1: at the hospital were rare. In twenty ten, there was
Speaker 1: just one recorded death of a premature baby WOW. In
Speaker 1: twenty ten and twenty twelve there were two deaths each year.
Speaker 1: In twenty thirteen that number rose to three, and in
Speaker 1: twenty fourteen there were again three. These figures reflected a
Speaker 1: unit that by all appearances was functioning as intended providing
Speaker 1: constant specialized care to critically ill and vulnerable newborns. In
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, this all changed. The number surged to a
Speaker 1: staggering eight just in one year. The alarming thing wasn't
Speaker 1: the sudden rise, but the nature of the death themselves.
Speaker 1: Before these babies lost their lives, they were seemingly stable,
Speaker 1: only to suddenly deteriorate without any warning. This pattern itself,
Speaker 1: particularly in a special care unit, is extremely distressing and alarming,
Speaker 1: not just the people that worked there, but also to
Speaker 1: course the parents. What was particularly striking was how differently
Speaker 1: the deaths were perceived depending on where you stood within
Speaker 1: the hospital. For NHS nurses and doctors on the front line,
Speaker 1: each death was absolutely devastating watching families endure the worst
Speaker 1: moments of their lives. These losses had to be formally recorded,
Speaker 1: but for those providing care they were far more than
Speaker 1: just statistics. Each death was deeply troubling and raised serious
Speaker 1: concern within the unit. And yeah, I said con Theerne.
Speaker 1: Before we move on to how the first alarm was
Speaker 1: raised by a fellow colleague, I'd like to share with
Speaker 1: you a bit about Lucy let Be. Lucy was born
Speaker 1: in Hereford, I believe Hereford or Hereford Hereford. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think Hereford. Let's go with Hereford Hereford in January nineteen ninety,
Speaker 1: making her thirty three years old at the time of
Speaker 1: her trial.
Speaker 2: God.
Speaker 1: She attended Alston School before going on to study nursing
Speaker 1: at the University of Chester. Nursing had long interested her.
Speaker 1: She'd experienced a difficult birth herself, and her mother often
Speaker 1: told her that nurses had played a critical role in
Speaker 1: saving her life as an infant.
Speaker 2: Oh God.
Speaker 1: After graduating, Lucy secured a permanent position as a neonatal
Speaker 1: nurse at the Countess of Chester Hospital at the Neonatal
Speaker 1: Unit in early two thy twelve. That was difficult to
Speaker 1: get out quite a few k neo natals.
Speaker 2: They done really well.
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that. Early assessments of her performance
Speaker 1: were mixed. Some colleagues noticed gaps in her clinical knowledge
Speaker 1: and felt she needed to better recognize nonverbal distress in parents.
Speaker 1: So be quite a big part of your role. I
Speaker 1: imagine as a nurses you really have to get to
Speaker 1: know the parents and understand how they're adapting in a situation.
Speaker 1: If they are really not coping with what's happening with
Speaker 1: a few, even describing her manner as cold, so a
Speaker 1: few people were like, oh, Lucy's quite a cold person.
Speaker 1: Over time, however, she settled into the role and came
Speaker 1: to be regarded as competent and well liked. Competent is
Speaker 1: never a compliment. I think people just go, oh, they're competent.
Speaker 1: It's fine. I think it's fine.
Speaker 2: Yes, you should be competent at your job, no matter
Speaker 2: what that job is. You should be competent, let alone
Speaker 2: if it's about treating people.
Speaker 1: I know hospital. Lucy's upbringing was described as loving, warm,
Speaker 1: and stable, friendfre called she was initially quite shy, but
Speaker 1: once comfortable, she was bubbly and fun. As a young adult,
Speaker 1: she enjoyed cocktails with friends, salsa dancing, and holidays abroad,
Speaker 1: including trips to Ibitha. I hate ob you really do,
Speaker 1: don't you.
Speaker 2: I told the story on here before, but I think.
Speaker 1: You have terrible experience.
Speaker 2: I just hated it. It's just like my least, it's
Speaker 2: so not me. The party scene and my then husband
Speaker 2: really wanted to go, so we did, and it ended
Speaker 2: up being a big group trip with all his friends
Speaker 2: and my friend. I'm they're my friends as well.
Speaker 1: Anymore, Absolutely I hated it.
Speaker 2: We couldn't get like, went out one night. I was
Speaker 2: duped into thinking, well, no, I was told straight up,
Speaker 2: it's not a DJ.
Speaker 4: It's just like.
Speaker 2: It's just you know, there is a DJ around the
Speaker 2: point this place we're going to.
Speaker 4: It was a massive fucking DJ set.
Speaker 2: It was horrible.
Speaker 4: I hated it.
Speaker 2: Couldn't get home and I cracked the sheets and burst
Speaker 2: into tears and booked myself into a five star hotel
Speaker 2: for the next night.
Speaker 1: Diva we regret. When the investigation began, Lucy was really
Speaker 1: open with friends and family with what was happening. And
Speaker 1: even though she was open, it was a massive shock
Speaker 1: to them. And when she was eventually arrested, arrested, sorry,
Speaker 1: they just couldn't believe that because.
Speaker 4: She, like, you mean, she told her friends and family.
Speaker 1: She was open about the investigation that was ongoing, and
Speaker 1: when she was actually arrested.
Speaker 2: About the fact that they were investigating her, yes, and
Speaker 2: these babies have been dying and the investigating and it's
Speaker 2: really was she saying like, you know, oh, how awful
Speaker 2: is this that this is happening?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, while she's on the clock, Yeah yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Those who knew Lucy. There was no question in their
Speaker 1: minds that she was incapable of such.
Speaker 2: Acts, so everyone around her was like, there's.
Speaker 1: No there's no way, there's no way. There been no
Speaker 1: warning signs, no foreshadowing, foreshadowing, foreshadowing, nothing to suggest she'll
Speaker 1: one day be charged with these crimes. To understand what
Speaker 1: happened next, we need to return to twenty fifteen, when
Speaker 1: there was a noticeable and deeply troubling rise in infant
Speaker 1: deaths on July two thousand. On the second of July
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, shortly after the third death, the lead consultant
Speaker 1: on the war, Dr Stephen Breery, raised concerns with senior management.
Speaker 1: His concerns centered specifically on Nurse Lucy.
Speaker 4: Let be Wow.
Speaker 1: Dr Breery had identified a disturbing pattern. Lucy had been
Speaker 1: present at all three deaths, yet despite the seriousness of
Speaker 1: the observation, his concerns were not acted upon. Oh three
Speaker 1: deaths were already three too many, and still no formal
Speaker 1: line of inquiry followed. In hindsight, this inaction is difficult
Speaker 1: to comprehend, but at the time the allegation itself may
Speaker 1: have felt almost unthinkable.
Speaker 4: And you can speak you know hindsight is.
Speaker 1: To a twenty vision right exactly now.
Speaker 2: But yeah, perhaps, I don't know. It's very hard to
Speaker 2: comment on because I don't know. I don't have any
Speaker 2: experience in you know, working in hospitals or being no,
Speaker 2: not any No. I did. My dad's a dock down
Speaker 2: when I was little. I used to go to work
Speaker 2: with him sometimes and like play with the catheter backs.
Speaker 1: It should be a bio. When I was a kid,
Speaker 1: I used to go to hospitals with my dad and
Speaker 1: playing with the catheter backs. I guess the idea, well, well,
Speaker 1: there were like ones that weren't already installed within someone.
Speaker 2: I would just like, I just want a patient, yeah, patient,
Speaker 2: like you know they hang up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they were actual person.
Speaker 2: No, they were like in the patient's room, you know,
Speaker 2: they're like, well, yes, but a catheter that's like like
Speaker 2: not the.
Speaker 1: Bag you're playing with a bag.
Speaker 4: I was playing with the Wii bag.
Speaker 1: Yes. The idea, the idea that's been so deliberate and
Speaker 1: so heinous, could be occurring within a neonatal unit was
Speaker 1: likely beyond what many could accept as possible. Even so,
Speaker 1: it remains deeply troubling that nothing was done at that point.
Speaker 1: The doctor found this exceptionally frustrating. Over the next few months,
Speaker 1: there were three more deaths, and the patterns surrounding Lucy
Speaker 1: being present in all of these deaths now seemed undernighib So.
Speaker 2: She must have been the only one who was president
Speaker 2: at all of them. If immediately this does.
Speaker 1: As she was, she does like I mean, there's other
Speaker 1: people caring.
Speaker 4: She's the only one that's been present at everyone.
Speaker 1: So infan A and their names have always been suppressed.
Speaker 1: But like Infant A, if Infant A was there, then
Speaker 1: Lucy was there, and if there was another nurse there,
Speaker 1: that the infant under Lucy's care would suddenly die. So
Speaker 1: this was a pattern that was just emerging. Other consultants
Speaker 1: started to notice too, morbidly. It became a question in
Speaker 1: the office and kind of gallows humor that if a
Speaker 1: baby died Lucy on duty, Oh gosh. It felt like
Speaker 1: a joke, but also not. It seemed as though it
Speaker 1: was just gossip. In February twenty sixteen, another consultant, doctor
Speaker 1: Ravi Jayream, approached the executive of the hospital, chief Executive
Speaker 1: Tony Chambers, with the same concerns.
Speaker 2: Well without having spoken to the first dolf.
Speaker 1: Well I don't know, but it doesn't seem like it.
Speaker 1: Tony was dubious and told the doctor that he could
Speaker 1: see how he might view the concerns of his unit
Speaker 1: as an excuse for the before of the poor performance
Speaker 1: of the unit. In a way, Tony Chambers was accusing
Speaker 1: him of trying to use Lucy as a scapegoat. This
Speaker 1: carried serious implications. The NHS is a vast and highly
Speaker 1: bureaucratic system, and over time it appeared that senior leadership
Speaker 1: came to believe there was no immediate cause for alarm,
Speaker 1: that operations should continue as normal. Yet between February and
Speaker 1: we're going to kiss, come.
Speaker 2: Up, kiss my legs, my face is someone else?
Speaker 1: Yet between February and May, two more babies dying and
Speaker 1: several others suffered unexplained collapses. The unit was clearly understrained.
Speaker 1: Mistakes were occurring more regularly, critical procedures were being missed,
Speaker 1: and there was insufficient senior cover on the ship. So
Speaker 1: like senior leaders, like doctors, you know. By this point,
Speaker 1: the atmosphere on the ward had become unbearable, especially for
Speaker 1: the frontline staff who were confronting these events day after
Speaker 1: day and constantly going home with another loss by the
Speaker 1: end of June, a team meeting was held to address
Speaker 1: the vital sorry, to address the rising death toll, and
Speaker 1: to try to restore morale, reinforcing that their work was
Speaker 1: vital and they had to keep going no matter what.
Speaker 1: During the meet, one detail stood out. Lucy let Be
Speaker 1: showed no visible emotion, which struck some as unusual, particularly
Speaker 1: given that she was the only nurse who had been
Speaker 1: present at every fatality. Many would have expected her to
Speaker 1: be among the most affected by this. After the meeting,
Speaker 1: the doctor who called the meeting checked in with Lucy
Speaker 1: privately to ask how she was coping. Lucy thanked him
Speaker 1: for his concern, but said she was absolutely fine and
Speaker 1: didn't need to take any time off.
Speaker 2: Well that you know what, even if you've just been
Speaker 2: at work, when you've been on shift when a baby
Speaker 2: has passed, let alone a number of them, that in
Speaker 2: itself should make you not fine, let alone if it's
Speaker 2: been all being investigated and everything like this.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a you know that nurses, in particular
Speaker 1: neonatal nurses formed quite a tight bond obviously with the parents,
Speaker 1: and this is a really hard thing. But she returned
Speaker 1: to work the very next day. Wow, So several alarm
Speaker 1: bells continued to Hey, honey, I'm just recording a podcast
Speaker 1: with Georgia. Honey, Oh my god, sorry I was calling
Speaker 1: you back. OK, you're on the podcast right now. Anything
Speaker 1: you want to say? Men, Yeah, I saw you on
Speaker 1: the Jeffrey Epstein email. Okay, that's good Meg everywhere the
Speaker 1: Median Festival shows touring all around Australia. It's that's not
Speaker 1: any good indication of Meg, how quick she is? All
Speaker 1: right after that, after the meeting, a doctor checked in
Speaker 1: with a oh, Sorr, I've already been through this. So
Speaker 1: at this time, several alarm bells, I've just been accused
Speaker 1: of something quite.
Speaker 4: Au Do you want it to take this opportunity to.
Speaker 2: Tell me and the listeners whether you were in the
Speaker 2: Jeffery upstairing or not? Why won't you make ygondac I
Speaker 2: am in the emails?
Speaker 1: So so several alarm bells continue to ring for this doctor.
Speaker 1: You should need to take time off, even if you're
Speaker 1: questioning your ability at this time.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 1: Lucy is somewhat seen as a bit of a closed book.
Speaker 1: She came across as a very guilty person because she
Speaker 1: didn't show any emotion or react in the regular ways
Speaker 1: you would expect in such tragic circumstances. We've kind of
Speaker 1: been through this before, but sometimes people don't behave in
Speaker 1: the way you're expecting them to. The evening, doctor Breery
Speaker 1: contacted the head of nursing for Also that evening. That evening,
Speaker 1: doctor Breery contacted the head of nursing for the Urgent
Speaker 1: Care Division, a woman by the name of Karen Reese.
Speaker 1: He told her plainly that Lucy needed to be immediately
Speaker 1: taken off his unit, that he believed that she was
Speaker 1: responsible and that something needed to change right away.
Speaker 2: So straight up, I think she's responsible, not even there
Speaker 2: might be something going on.
Speaker 1: I think, But once again Karen dismissed the concerns and
Speaker 1: said that Lucy posed no threat to patience and without
Speaker 1: concrete evidence, they would not be able to act.
Speaker 2: And you know what, it is hard like if you
Speaker 2: want to kind of play devil's advocate for all, which
Speaker 2: is the wrong term, because there's you know, there's no
Speaker 2: advocating for something that's done this. But at this point
Speaker 2: they didn't know whether she had or not. You look
Speaker 2: at that as someone who's in charge of the unit,
Speaker 2: I suppose and you go, well, we can't assume that
Speaker 2: somebody is doing this. So, I mean, I'm saying I
Speaker 2: disagree with it as i'm saying it, But I suppose
Speaker 2: she's probably looking at that and saying, well, you can't
Speaker 2: just tell me that I've got to take someone off.
Speaker 4: We don't have any proof of anything.
Speaker 1: I can't just cantuse someone of multiple murders. No, you
Speaker 1: can't rip someone off the unit and just be like, look,
Speaker 1: these are the reasons why. Because the doctor's suspect.
Speaker 2: Which is hard to say because now we know that
Speaker 2: obviously she was. You know that that was the case,
Speaker 2: but if it wasn't imagine that story. You know, some
Speaker 2: person has been present for all these tragedies happening, and
Speaker 2: we've accused her.
Speaker 1: Exactly.
Speaker 2: That's for any justification of that Karen's decisions in that moment.
Speaker 4: I suppose it was probably.
Speaker 1: That, I guess exactly. Karen then said that if anything
Speaker 1: were to happen with Lucy that she would take personal
Speaker 1: responsibility for it. Wow.
Speaker 2: She backed to that that month far out.
Speaker 1: The next day, another baby collapsed, and Lucy again was
Speaker 1: on ship.
Speaker 2: The next day.
Speaker 1: Consultants continued to mount pressure against the hospital and finally
Speaker 1: Lucy was moved to administrative duties administrative, well administrative. There
Speaker 1: was a huge relief at the time for all of
Speaker 1: the consultants and the nurse. Despite moving her, the hospital
Speaker 1: was not going to take any further action. The hospital
Speaker 1: told the concerned staff that the action they were taking
Speaker 1: was to move her to administrative duties and they had
Speaker 1: done their due diligence. They then asked the staff to
Speaker 1: stop emailing them on the matter.
Speaker 2: So there's multiple people going no, no, more needs be done,
Speaker 2: and they just stop it. With the deaths.
Speaker 1: In fact, I think it was seven consultants. Wow, if
Speaker 1: I'm pulling that name out of my arsenal, but I
Speaker 1: feel like it was about seven your arsenal arsenal. In
Speaker 1: a situation like this, proof is essential, But by this
Speaker 1: point there appeared to be a growing body of circumstantial evidence.
Speaker 1: The pattern could not be ignored.
Speaker 2: And this is the thing we've discussed with this as well.
Speaker 2: And I feel like I say it often when people
Speaker 2: argue about you know, trials that are on at the
Speaker 2: moment and people are following in the medium, People go,
Speaker 2: but it's only circumstantial, yes, but that is still evidence
Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence is that being cases found only circumstantially, so
Speaker 2: you can't discount that either.
Speaker 1: Well, the pattern could not be ignored, and to prevent
Speaker 1: history from repeating itself, the common variable had to be removed,
Speaker 1: and she was. After Lucy was reassigned, the whispering on
Speaker 1: the ward reached her. She filed a formal grievance against
Speaker 1: seven consultants I didn't put it out of my asshole there,
Speaker 1: arguing that her removal was the u was her removal
Speaker 1: from the unit was based on unsubstantiated accusations. In her complaint,
Speaker 1: Lucy said that after returning from annual leave, she felt
Speaker 1: excluded and professionally devastated by a decision in which she
Speaker 1: had no say. While she acknowledged that staff had the
Speaker 1: right to raise concerns, she said that those concerns did
Speaker 1: not need to be discussed openly in a way that
Speaker 1: caused her significant distress. Behind her back, she was labeled
Speaker 1: the angel of death. How awful, a term that eventually
Speaker 1: it's awful, a term that eventually made its way to her.
Speaker 1: By this stage, many consultants had turned against her, and
Speaker 1: the pressure continued to intensify. Numerous disparaging comments were made
Speaker 1: about Lucy in private, many of which later reached her.
Speaker 1: Lucy maintained that she remained Lucy maintained that she remained
Speaker 1: professional throughout her reassignment, but said the isolation and secrecy
Speaker 1: surrounding the situation began to take a toll on her
Speaker 1: mental health and her confidence. She made it clear that
Speaker 1: she wanted to return to the unit where she had
Speaker 1: trained and begun her career. Now, when Lucy's complaint is received,
Speaker 1: senior management takes it very seriously. Two of the consultants
Speaker 1: must go through mediation with her, and all seven of
Speaker 1: the accused consultants are forced to write an apology letter
Speaker 1: to Lucy let be or that they would be reported
Speaker 1: to the General Medical Council. The consultants believed that this
Speaker 1: was a patient safety violation, but they needed proof, so
Speaker 1: Lucy herself was a safety violation. All they saw was
Speaker 1: a failing ward based on data. So that's kind of
Speaker 1: what the you know, the senior management, it's just darted
Speaker 1: like this is what we're seeing right now. They did
Speaker 1: have clear evidence that Lucy had been treated unfairly in
Speaker 1: the workplace, so they needed to act on that first.
Speaker 1: This is just like it's just they're treating it like
Speaker 1: any other company. It's just like that HR thing instead
Speaker 1: of like infants are dying. It seemed like the easiest
Speaker 1: thing to be able to deal with. The unit was
Speaker 1: more and more understaffed. It was like they didn't have
Speaker 1: the time to get the evidence once another tragedy occurred,
Speaker 1: so they just had to move on so quickly that
Speaker 1: were too understart to deal with it. All. Seven consultants
Speaker 1: ended up sending Lucy an apology letter. However, they stated
Speaker 1: this came from a fear of the most important thing,
Speaker 1: the patient's safety. The consultants themselves were extremely irritated that
Speaker 1: they had to go through with writing an apology letter
Speaker 1: to someone they believed was guilty. And it does not
Speaker 1: go unnoticed that while Lucy was on a ministry duties,
Speaker 1: can you guess deaths? Yeah, these sudden deaths and collapses
Speaker 1: seemed to disappear, and so as a result, the consultants
Speaker 1: did not drop the issue and continually asked for a
Speaker 1: formal investigation. Eventually, the hospital caved in.
Speaker 2: We're talking about children dying and.
Speaker 1: Asked the Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health to
Speaker 1: conduct a formal review only after all of this, all
Speaker 1: of this, Jesus. The review found that the hospital may
Speaker 1: have downplayed the full extent of the concerns raised about
Speaker 1: Lucy let Be, but because of how badly the hospital
Speaker 1: was being managed due to staffing issues and resources. There
Speaker 1: was no evidence in the cause of death in any
Speaker 1: of the cases. So this is extremely frustrating for all
Speaker 1: of the consultants. On one hand, their fears were slightly validated,
Speaker 1: but on the other it looked as if Lucie he
Speaker 1: would be getting away with something they believed she was
Speaker 1: very guilty of.
Speaker 2: The review sorry, so was it kind of saying the
Speaker 2: causes of death aren't the same in each of the cases,
Speaker 2: so we can't possibly say that they're linked.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but there are definitely issues right here. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: but it could be because of resourcing, It could because
Speaker 1: the understuff.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, there's nothing enough to show that it was
Speaker 4: a person.
Speaker 1: I think more that critical procedures are being missed right.
Speaker 1: The review suggested an external, independent review should be carried
Speaker 1: out for each of the deaths. I was surprised that
Speaker 1: this isn't something that actually already happens with a death,
Speaker 1: but I guess this goes back to the running of
Speaker 1: the hospital and how the NHS was performing at the time.
Speaker 1: As a result of the review, the hospital decided that
Speaker 1: they would stop accepting any babies under thirty two weeks
Speaker 1: of gestation until management was properly sorted out.
Speaker 2: What happens to those premieres. Then, Oh god, this was.
Speaker 1: A huge blow to the consultants. The senior management were
Speaker 1: now utterly convinced that the tragedies were in fact caused
Speaker 1: by Paul management and not by something more sinister at play.
Speaker 1: This fed into exactly what Tony Chambers thought earlier. He
Speaker 1: believed that Lucy was a convenient person to pin all
Speaker 1: of this on.
Speaker 2: They saw the data of who was working on which
Speaker 2: she saw that there was a common denominator and went, ah,
Speaker 2: we can pin it on her.
Speaker 1: You can put it on her. Oh. Because of the review,
Speaker 1: the hospital management decided not to go through with the
Speaker 1: external reviews. As a result, the consultants in April twenty
Speaker 1: seventeen formally reported their fears to the police.
Speaker 2: Well they had to go.
Speaker 1: We've got to do it, because go to police far
Speaker 1: the only way they're going to get listened to. Chester
Speaker 1: Police launched a formal investigation and invited Dr Dewey Evans,
Speaker 1: a retired pediatrician. Now, okay, I should make it clear
Speaker 1: here that he had heard what was happening and he
Speaker 1: volunteered his service. Okay, he was a retired person. But
Speaker 1: actually it'll do it on behalf of the.
Speaker 2: Police, right, Okay, as someone who understands the industry. Yes,
Speaker 2: police don't understand how that all works.
Speaker 1: He was watching the Lucy let me think from afar
Speaker 1: and when I want to Yeah, he made it very
Speaker 1: clear that he didn't want to be made aware of
Speaker 1: any police or hospital's feelings that may sway.
Speaker 4: You know, he's such a doctor.
Speaker 1: And his daughter was just playing with the catheter bags
Speaker 1: and the patients in the hallway, Doctor Loeuve. Dr Evans
Speaker 1: was given a record, a record, sorry, of thirty babies.
Speaker 1: For half of them he was able to find a
Speaker 1: very clear explanation of their death due to infections or hemorrhages.
Speaker 1: For fifteen of these he could not provide an explanation
Speaker 1: had account so half so those parents.
Speaker 2: There's fifteen families whose babies have died and they haven't
Speaker 2: even been told why.
Speaker 1: Well. This was of of thirteen. This was of the
Speaker 1: thirty that were given, So there's way more than that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a suddenness of the deterioration that didn't add up.
Speaker 1: He noticed in some of the cases the baby showed
Speaker 1: signs of air embolisms in their system, which to him,
Speaker 1: he believed that this could not be accidental.
Speaker 2: Is that like a bubble like, yeah, injected with air.
Speaker 1: So air would have had to be injected into the
Speaker 1: god or god or god. One isolated case might not
Speaker 1: have really concerned him, maybe even too, but several babies
Speaker 1: showed the same patterns, so this became really concerning to him.
Speaker 1: Some of these babies also showed signs of being overfed
Speaker 1: with a which a premature baby could not handle. So
Speaker 1: they would have a.
Speaker 2: Certain exactly what they know what to do and not
Speaker 2: to do that.
Speaker 1: Exactly, so you know, so certain baby would have like
Speaker 1: this amount of milk and then overfared it would throw
Speaker 1: up and everything. So it was just like this cycle
Speaker 1: is gone. This isn't right. So there's clearly a problem.
Speaker 1: But was their intent? That's what they had to find out.
Speaker 1: He also found signs of direct trauma in some of
Speaker 1: these cases, bleeding around the mouth or the back of
Speaker 1: their throats, which would be caused by a breathing tube
Speaker 1: being forcibly inserted or removed, causing catastrophic bleeding. Now, these
Speaker 1: findings were extremely alarming, not just to him, but also
Speaker 1: to the police as well. So he took this to
Speaker 1: the police and they went, oh, we have to look
Speaker 1: into this. It was enough to pull even more case files,
Speaker 1: particularly a pair of twins who both deteriorate rapidly after
Speaker 1: their blood sugar levels dropped. At first, it looked ordinary,
Speaker 1: which is why it was missed, but when their blood
Speaker 1: was tested, they found a high level of insulin kind
Speaker 1: that could only be present if it were administered externally.
Speaker 1: They knew this because when insulin is produced naturally, the
Speaker 1: body also produces see peptide in equal If there is
Speaker 1: far more insulin than see peptide, then it proves that
Speaker 1: the insulin was actually administered externally. For doctor Evans, this
Speaker 1: was the most damning evidence so far.
Speaker 2: Both twins.
Speaker 1: Yeah, police now had seventeen unexplained depths and sixteen suspicious collapses.
Speaker 2: And sorry to be ignorant, but collapses means like a
Speaker 2: collapse in their condition.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, not necessarily dying, but yeah, but like
Speaker 1: deterioration that went crazy and it was ef an alarm
Speaker 1: went off, and sometimes you know, it was explained later.
Speaker 1: Sometimes an alarm was turned off weirdly in the room,
Speaker 1: but sometimes you know, yeah, yeah, so this was this was,
Speaker 1: this was the thing. But it's actually the two insulin
Speaker 1: cases where they can pinpoint who was there for those
Speaker 1: two tragedies. Oh wow, and no surprises here, it was
Speaker 1: Lucy let Be, who was a common factor in both
Speaker 1: of these depths. Now, the insulent collapse occurs within minutes,
Speaker 1: so whoever did it must have been on shift. And
Speaker 1: of course they can pull the rosters or for UK people,
Speaker 1: rotors what they call them rotors. Really, yeah, what does
Speaker 1: that mean? It's just the same, just rotor, And they
Speaker 1: can see that Lucy was there every time. They then
Speaker 1: crossed reference to the other incidents and the same pattern
Speaker 1: appeared by the force case. By the fourth case it
Speaker 1: was proven, and by the last case it was absolute.
Speaker 1: So the police now had to arrest Lucy Letbe. On
Speaker 1: the third of July twenty eighteen, police knocked on Lucy's door.
Speaker 2: Three years after this or started.
Speaker 1: Yeah God, who answered and was extremely calm, not panicking
Speaker 1: at all, and did not protest her innocence. As she
Speaker 1: was taken to the car, she polited asked if she
Speaker 1: can have her seat move forward as she recently had
Speaker 1: knee surgery. Even throughout the interviews, detectives all said she
Speaker 1: didn't panic at all and was really cooperative the fuck. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: police began searching Lucy's home. Her bedroom was decorated in
Speaker 1: pink and white, with teddy de bears on display, glittery
Speaker 1: photo frames, slogan artwork, and fairy lights.
Speaker 4: At the age of thirty three, yeah by.
Speaker 1: All appearance as an ordinary, unremarkable room. Many reports later
Speaker 1: focused heavily on the teddy bears and the seemingly juvenile decorps,
Speaker 1: but it's difficult to see how that alone would ever
Speaker 1: prove anything. Of course, it was certainly not the smoking
Speaker 1: gun investigators were looking for. What they did find, however,
Speaker 1: was much more significant. Hidden under a bed were two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty seven confidential hospital documents, including handover sheets,
Speaker 1: medical notes, and oxygen reports.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't remember this detail.
Speaker 1: Eight of those documents related directly to babies who had
Speaker 1: died or suffered unexplained collapses. Police also recovered a series
Speaker 1: of post it notes and a diary entry that read
Speaker 1: I killed them. Oh my god, I did this. I
Speaker 1: am evil?
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Now these notes looked like confessions. Others were questioning her guilt.
Speaker 1: Was this me? Did I do this? Am I evil?
Speaker 1: Lucy explained later that she was surprised to see the police.
Speaker 1: That she was kind of sorry that she was surprised
Speaker 1: to see the police, but she kind of was expecting
Speaker 1: it after all the investigations. At the same point, she
Speaker 1: kind of known the investigations and whispers were happening about
Speaker 1: her at the time. She to, you know, she say,
Speaker 1: she's talking about it. She was talking about it. She'd
Speaker 1: been dull, she was talking. She was talking about it
Speaker 1: with her family, talking about with her friends. They were
Speaker 1: just surprised when she was actually arrested in isolation. The
Speaker 1: body cam footage showed a cold, detached, and unemotional person.
Speaker 1: And for the documents under her bed, they do look suspicious,
Speaker 1: almost like trophies, But she explained that these documents maybe
Speaker 1: were kept in her pockets and she kept throwing them
Speaker 1: under the bed after her shift. She had a shredder
Speaker 1: at home and was going to shred them, but she
Speaker 1: hadn't got around to it. At that point, she hadn't
Speaker 1: got around to that batch at that stage. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's a thing. I don't know if nurses do.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, as I wouldn't think so.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure you can't take any dog like hotel
Speaker 2: hotel hospital documents home from the hospital.
Speaker 1: I know, would you ever be doing well as a nurse.
Speaker 1: I imagine you're on your feet all the time. You
Speaker 1: could just put something in a pocket. Told them, I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe it could happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I feel like even if you've done that,
Speaker 2: you take it back to work the next day, even
Speaker 2: if it's to be shredded.
Speaker 4: She read it there. Yeah, it's not your document to happen.
Speaker 1: That's true. For the diaries, she explained that she was
Speaker 1: in a really deep depression after all the rumors, whispers,
Speaker 1: and investigation. Her GP advised her that she should keep
Speaker 1: a journal of what was happening, not because she'd intentionally
Speaker 1: done anything wrong, but because she could keep track of
Speaker 1: her emotions. She had been made to feel inadequate as
Speaker 1: a nurse, and the constant, constant, the constant whispers behind
Speaker 1: her back made her feel more and more isolated, as
Speaker 1: well as the notes and documents. Police also found that
Speaker 1: Lucy had searched for the parents of the babies online
Speaker 1: thirty one times. Oh my god, sometimes immediately after their
Speaker 1: death or even on anniversaries of their death. Again, this
Speaker 1: can be argued that she was feeling an immense amount
Speaker 1: of guilt. It could be normal behavior as nurses form
Speaker 1: a type bond with her parents and want to check in.
Speaker 1: Another weird thing, she had written bereavement cards. That's not
Speaker 1: weird in itself, but she had actually taken photos of
Speaker 1: all the bereavement cards that she wrote, and she had
Speaker 1: copies of them. She kept them as a trophy. Oh now, police, sorry, now, now,
Speaker 1: the police did not believe that Lucy fit the profile
Speaker 1: of a killer. You know, someone who will commit these
Speaker 1: Heinais crimes. Either the police had it wrong or evil
Speaker 1: can truly exist in places you've never expected. She's routinely
Speaker 1: described in the media as the vanilla killer. Oh, because
Speaker 1: of how ordinary and boring she is.
Speaker 2: Oh, I hate that.
Speaker 1: I hate that.
Speaker 2: I hate that. Just that is so awful to the
Speaker 2: parents and life loved ones of victims. Just to be like, oh,
Speaker 2: she's boring, born, I'm prittish, bored, like there's nothing boring
Speaker 2: about these people's lives and what has happened to them exactly.
Speaker 1: By this point police were convinced that Lucy was guilty.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Colleagues and even parents cited Lucy being by the bedside
Speaker 1: of these babies just before incidents occurred. This was really
Speaker 1: damning for Lucy. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence.
Speaker 1: On the tenth of October twenty twenty two, Lucy's trial
Speaker 1: began and went for ten months what at the Manchester
Speaker 1: Crown Court and god, that's a.
Speaker 2: Long time after so she was rested in twenty fifth
Speaker 2: eighteen and the trial was four years later far out.
Speaker 1: It was one of the longest trials in British history.
Speaker 1: Lucy was accused of murdering seven babies and the attempt
Speaker 1: to murder of fifteen Ludy. Lucy pled not guilty to
Speaker 1: the chargers. The prosecution's evidence centered around the blood tests
Speaker 1: results showing insulent please insulin are poising into infants. Everything
Speaker 1: else they argued was supporting the fact that she was guilty.
Speaker 1: The names were anonymous in the case. The infant's names
Speaker 1: were assigned a letter from A to q so Q,
Speaker 1: Oh my God. The first case was that of A
Speaker 1: and B born prematurely who were progressing well. Lucy was
Speaker 1: assigned the designated nurse for Child A. Things deteriorated in
Speaker 1: a couple of hours the shift, so the nurse who
Speaker 1: had the shift of Child A had passed. Child BE
Speaker 1: also passed in a similar way after an oxygen tube
Speaker 1: was dislodged. Now I won't go to any more details
Speaker 1: of the babies here. It is horrific and even if accidental,
Speaker 1: not something that we ever need to go into. I've
Speaker 1: done this research so you don't have to. Each child
Speaker 1: seemed to be progressing well, and then in each case
Speaker 1: there seemed to be a change in progress. Child G
Speaker 1: had been overfed. Lucy could have snuck in with her
Speaker 1: monitor being turned off and not logged the other feed.
Speaker 1: The details go on and on. So what really had happened?
Speaker 1: It was all circumstantial, really apart from the and.
Speaker 2: It was not the same cause of death in each exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was overfeeding, there was all this other stuff,
Speaker 1: but it was also constantial. Basically, Lucy was the only
Speaker 1: one of two nurses on duty on several occasions. Lucy
Speaker 1: was a common denominator in these In the incidents. Both
Speaker 1: prosecution and defense as well as Lucy, agreed the insulin
Speaker 1: levels found in the infants could not have been possible
Speaker 1: without the sea peptide rising too, But all Lucy said
Speaker 1: in her defense was all I can do is speak
Speaker 1: for myself and that I did not do this bravely.
Speaker 1: Some of the parents testified in court, Oh God, those
Speaker 1: poor people. There was also testimony from another nurse who
Speaker 1: found Lucy watching and doing nothing to help in a
Speaker 1: clear emergency. Over the ten months each case was discussed
Speaker 1: a to Q, the prosecution was able to show a
Speaker 1: graph showing that each time a child collapsed or died,
Speaker 1: Lucy was there. The pattern was far too consistent for
Speaker 1: it to be a coincidence, every single one. The prosecution
Speaker 1: was very careful not to claim that this was a
Speaker 1: statistical proof of her guilt, but it was one brick
Speaker 1: in the wall, although a very heavy one. The defense team,
Speaker 1: of course scrutinizes evidence, but not in a way that
Speaker 1: seemed to sway the jury. While this was reallyive material,
Speaker 1: a group of setians stated after the trial that the
Speaker 1: data was essentially meaningless and flawed. They explained that the
Speaker 1: chart didn't control for basic variables, which child was the
Speaker 1: sickest on which days, which nurses were actually assigned to,
Speaker 1: which infants, which nurses regularly worked with the sickest children,
Speaker 1: and did Lucy simply just work more shifts. If you
Speaker 1: didn't control for those factors, then the chart is very misleading.
Speaker 1: It also shows a very small amount of data. In
Speaker 1: other words, they went with the assumption that Lucy was
Speaker 1: guilty and then leant into evidence to support that theory.
Speaker 1: Lucy spent fourteen days under cross examination. She was calm,
Speaker 1: maintained her innocence, softly spoken, and rarely showed any emotion.
Speaker 1: Her core defense was that she didn't do anything wrong
Speaker 1: and she was being used as a scapegoat for the
Speaker 1: wider failings within the ward. When she was pressed for
Speaker 1: specific she struggled to answer any kinds of questions or elaborate.
Speaker 1: You would expect her to have some kind of explanation
Speaker 1: in her defense, especially.
Speaker 2: After four years of standing accused of something. If you
Speaker 2: really really didn't do it, you think you'd have a
Speaker 2: pretty clear argument as to what you think happened exactly.
Speaker 1: You would. Yeah, it was not persuasive enough for the jury.
Speaker 1: She said that it was all due to understaffing, a
Speaker 1: stressful environment, under resourcing which led to shortcuts being taken
Speaker 1: every time in medical procedures. This almost cemented her guilt.
Speaker 1: After ten months, the trial ended on the tenth of
Speaker 1: July twenty twenty three. The jury began their deliberations after
Speaker 1: twenty two days. They returned with a vertict twenty two day,
Speaker 1: on top of the ten months same jury throughout. On
Speaker 1: August thirteenth, twenty twenty three, the jury found her guilty
Speaker 1: of seven murders and six attempted murders. Three of the
Speaker 1: counts were left undecided. Lucy was sentenced on the twenty
Speaker 1: first of August twenty twenty three to fourteen life orders.
Speaker 1: She's only the fourth woman in British history to receive
Speaker 1: that kind of sentence, along with Myra Hinley and Rosemary
Speaker 1: west Wow. The court accepted her behavior as deliberate. This
Speaker 1: didn't bring back the losses, of course it didn't, And
Speaker 1: it wasn't a satisfying ending for anyone, because what was
Speaker 1: the fucking motive? Yes, birthdays never reached first steps, that
Speaker 1: never happened. Lucy refused to attend the verdict for her sentencing.
Speaker 1: She did not have to sit through witness statements. Lucy
Speaker 1: argued that she had PTSD from the trial. She also
Speaker 1: claimed that she suffered from anxiety so bad that she
Speaker 1: couldn't bear it anymore. The families ended up calling Lucy
Speaker 1: cowardly for not coming should take some accountability. The prosecution
Speaker 1: did not have to prove a motive, but the story
Speaker 1: doesn't end there. After the trial, online salutes and psychologists
Speaker 1: tried to answer the idea of motive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're right, you don't have to prove a motive.
Speaker 2: But it is just human nature exactly.
Speaker 1: Oh God. One theory was that Lucy was seeking a thrill,
Speaker 1: wanting to play god. Others have argued that she had
Speaker 1: a fascination with causing grief and the emotional process of grieving.
Speaker 1: Did she become obsessed with this? Another theory is jealousy.
Speaker 1: She was thirty three, lived alone, and perhaps overcome with
Speaker 1: jealousy of happy families.
Speaker 2: Oh I hate that theory. Fuck off. You can be
Speaker 2: thirty three and not have a family and that doesn't
Speaker 2: make you kill people exactly.
Speaker 1: And that was his online sleuths coming out with all
Speaker 1: these different motives. One more theory is this might have
Speaker 1: been an attempt to get closer to a doctor who
Speaker 1: she was deeply interested in. After the events, the doctor
Speaker 1: would shower her with praise and say what a great
Speaker 1: job she did under high pressure. The doctor's name is
Speaker 1: written in her diary with love heart surrounding her.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: They grew closer and closer over time. Their interactions were
Speaker 1: very limited because he was married and had kids, and
Speaker 1: perhaps she engineered these events to get closer to him.
Speaker 2: That's not true.
Speaker 1: When the case was unfolding, this particular doctor stood by
Speaker 1: her the whole time. Allegedly, when the case was unfolding,
Speaker 1: he even sent her a text, you are one of
Speaker 1: the few nurses across the region and I've worked pretty
Speaker 1: much everywhere that I could trust with my own children.
Speaker 2: Shit.
Speaker 1: He even offered to write her a statement to vouch
Speaker 1: for the quality of her care. He also kept her
Speaker 1: informed of the internal review about her that was happening
Speaker 1: and that was going on at the time, so she
Speaker 1: could stay ahead of the game, which.
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem like it doesn't seem legal, does coacher?
Speaker 1: Anyway, When the doctor was called to testify, by at
Speaker 1: this point though, he had turned against her.
Speaker 5: Oh.
Speaker 1: This was one of the only times that Lucy herself
Speaker 1: showed emotion breaking into tears, which kind of proves a
Speaker 1: little bit about that. So even though she was being sentenced,
Speaker 1: the investigation still isn't over. Police continue to investigate and
Speaker 1: review her clinical footprint. How far did it go? New
Speaker 1: charges might still follow?
Speaker 2: Wow for damage cause to please.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty four, Lucy went through a retrial on
Speaker 1: baby K the assertion that the baby was active and
Speaker 1: might have dislodged it themselves to dislodged his pipe. But
Speaker 1: she was found guilty in the retrial again and giving
Speaker 1: an additional life sentence. Since the trial, the hospital's implemented
Speaker 1: an entirely new senior management team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I reckon.
Speaker 1: They still haven't lifted the restriction of accepting babies under
Speaker 1: the thirty two week gestation period.
Speaker 2: So even though someone an individual has been found guilty
Speaker 2: for being responsible for these, the hospital itself won't.
Speaker 1: Take apparently, Yeah, that's all understaffing since the trial. Sorry.
Speaker 1: The case has been likened to Harold Shipman, who killed
Speaker 1: over two hundred patients in the late nineteen nineties to
Speaker 1: early two thousands. Doctor death Well, yeah, the British doctor. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: in not the one that the TV show was based
Speaker 1: on in February twenty twenty five, when a major press
Speaker 1: conference was held that Lucy Sorry Sorry. In twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: a major press conference was held that Lucy let Be
Speaker 1: was in fact one hundred percent innocent. Twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: a major press conference was held that Lucy let Be
Speaker 1: was in fact one hundred percent innocent. It was held
Speaker 1: by Dr Sulee, Anadian professor, and fourteen international neonatal specialists independently.
Speaker 1: They said that they were deeply concerned about how the
Speaker 1: medical evidence had been interpreted at the time. Their conclusion
Speaker 1: was that there was no medical evidence whatsoever in any
Speaker 1: of the seventeen cases. In their view, they said that
Speaker 1: every single collapse or death was explained by natural causes
Speaker 1: or failure of care in an overstretched unit. During a
Speaker 1: press conference, doctor schu Lee said he disagreed when the
Speaker 1: retired pediatrician volunteered their services, so he disagreed completely with
Speaker 1: what they said. As for the alarm that was turned off,
Speaker 1: well that was the only one. It was only one
Speaker 1: of the nurse's testimonies. Another said that it wasn't turned off.
Speaker 1: The panel expanded on their findings and like I said before,
Speaker 1: found Lucy one hundred percent innocent and that none of
Speaker 1: the cases were caused by direct hum. The panel offered
Speaker 1: the information freely for Lucy's defense to use. Her defense
Speaker 1: team took it extremely seriously, which means that Lucy could
Speaker 1: be eligible for retrial. In July twenty twenty five, police
Speaker 1: arrested three senior hospital staff members on suspicion of causing
Speaker 1: death of serious negligence. Their names have not been released
Speaker 1: as far as I could find, but it is being
Speaker 1: taken extremely seriously Lucy. Lucy does now have a glimmer
Speaker 1: of hope in the future if she is indeed innocent.
Speaker 1: It also opens up families to a further hurt and anguish,
Speaker 1: of course it does. There is a brand new Netflix
Speaker 1: documentary about this. By the time this is released, will
Speaker 1: be available. The tragedy of Lucy let Bee is not
Speaker 1: only in the lives lost, but is in how we
Speaker 1: deem the unthinkable that harm could come from someone whose
Speaker 1: role was to protect the most vulnerable. I'll do it again,
Speaker 1: The harm could be from someone whose role was protect
Speaker 1: the most vulnerable. Whether you believe her to be guilty
Speaker 1: or not, it either shows an evil, monstrous person, perhaps
Speaker 1: without a motive or deep seated issue within the NHS.
Speaker 1: If found guilty, again is the reminder that sympisms built
Speaker 1: on trust must also be built on vigilance, because when
Speaker 1: a wolf wears the clothing of a healer, the cost
Speaker 1: of disbelief can be catastrophic. That g is the case
Speaker 1: of Lucy let Be and babies at a Q whose
Speaker 1: names have been suppressed, but the poor families are absolutely
Speaker 1: at the front of our minds in today's episode.
Speaker 2: Oh god, this is such an awful one. It's so
Speaker 2: hard to even kind of put into words what I
Speaker 2: think and feel about it. I know, I know, just
Speaker 2: so devastating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so that I'm interested to see this
Speaker 1: documentary that's coming out of me and we're recording before
Speaker 1: it comes out. But what I was interested in because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, he's guilty. And I
Speaker 1: started to write the story and then I went imagine,
Speaker 1: if she's not, like I mean, in a wild world
Speaker 1: where she's not.
Speaker 2: If these it is the common deny she's there, but
Speaker 2: it is just a coincidence.
Speaker 1: If that is the case. But if she is guilty,
Speaker 1: what a monster. I just don't understand the motive at all.
Speaker 2: No, But again, you don't know. That doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be proven. She could just be you know, obviously not
Speaker 2: right in the head. I mean, oh god, I don't
Speaker 2: I feel weird even commenting on it. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've had very close friends have premature babies. I've had
Speaker 2: very close friends have stillwood babies. And that is my
Speaker 2: closest touchwood association with that, And that breaks my heart
Speaker 2: to even think about. And that's just an association with
Speaker 2: people who've been who've suffered through that.
Speaker 4: I cannot imagine.
Speaker 2: Someone losing a child and finding out that someone's to
Speaker 2: blame for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so devastating. Yeah, absolutely, and that just the families
Speaker 1: being there going this is the person. That's why kind
Speaker 1: of was talking about the wolf at the start, because
Speaker 1: it is like that's literally the person who is literally
Speaker 1: the person that was there, Like and if you see that,
Speaker 1: if the disguise you don't know that, of course not.
Speaker 2: Why would you ever question the person who's exactly a
Speaker 2: job it is and you know, to be there exactly
Speaker 2: like you know, put her life towards doing that. It's
Speaker 2: not a job like you know, you've got to your
Speaker 2: office job and all, this is the job you've got
Speaker 2: to do today. No, that is, like, you know, nurses
Speaker 2: are just the most incredible humans on earth, I think.
Speaker 2: Usually to make that decision to dedicate your life to
Speaker 2: literally saving people and doing the jobs that so many
Speaker 2: other people don't want to do because of their devastation,
Speaker 2: you'd see, it's so hard because I can't. It's really
Speaker 2: difficult to play devil's advocate to use that term again
Speaker 2: and go, oh, but what if she's not? But fuck,
Speaker 2: you're right, yeah, what if she's not?
Speaker 1: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it's interesting, sorry to interrupt you. The thing
Speaker 2: about the panel of fourteen independent doctors that immediately my
Speaker 2: mind went to the Lindy Chamberlain case sure where independent
Speaker 2: people afterwards came to the fore and said, well, hang on, no,
Speaker 2: we don't think that because actually Dingo's behaviors are proven
Speaker 2: to do this blah blah blah. And that was a
Speaker 2: case of a lot of independent people coming out and saying, no,
Speaker 2: we work in the field and we don't believe that.
Speaker 2: That's just given me a glimpse, like a reminder of that.
Speaker 2: But you also, like I just desperately want to have
Speaker 2: hope and trust in the legal system to believe that
Speaker 2: it did the right thing and it made the right decision.
Speaker 1: Who know, you know, there could be another retrol Like
Speaker 1: who knows that in you know knowother ten years, people
Speaker 1: might be looking back and going what the hell? Like
Speaker 1: either way, like I mean, if she if she was
Speaker 1: found innocent, that's a wild thing to have happened. But
Speaker 1: also so if she's found guilty, it's just such a
Speaker 1: monstrous thing. Yes, you know as a thirty three year
Speaker 1: old just you know, have done this Andy three.
Speaker 2: By the time she was arrested as well, it was
Speaker 2: happening for three years.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And also like we all have to do the Harold
Speaker 1: Shipman at some point. I mean, you know, the idea
Speaker 1: of this podcast is we have to space some of
Speaker 1: these episodes out of me. You know, we can't do doctors, can't,
Speaker 1: you know, because it is so awful to go through
Speaker 1: some of these and this one was particularly hard just
Speaker 1: to investigate and stuff, because it's like as you go
Speaker 1: into the graphic detail and the nature of it, you go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like it is so awful, And there
Speaker 1: are other places to find that sort of information. We
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about that because it is so
Speaker 1: devastating and I think I think I said enough in there.
Speaker 1: It's just like, it is so awful what these poor
Speaker 1: families went through. It's just horrible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm looking forward to watching that documentary.
Speaker 1: Same. Yeah, I would be interested to see what what
Speaker 1: kind of conclusion they make in the documentary.
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know if my friends, I won't
Speaker 2: say the names, but to my friends I know who
Speaker 2: listened to this podcast religiously, I don't know if they
Speaker 2: listen to this episode. They've both got children and that
Speaker 2: this might be a bit too upsetting for them. But
Speaker 2: I know I have spoken to each of them about
Speaker 2: Lucy let Be before and they very much say, you know,
Speaker 2: she's a fucking monster, yes, and yeah, yeah, the most
Speaker 2: horrible kind of monster you can even fathom.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So that's certainly my you know, was my knowledge and
Speaker 2: understanding of the case before. So I'm really interested to
Speaker 2: see this documentary. I'm also interested to see how because
Speaker 2: we discussed this often with a documentary, it is, you
Speaker 2: know that there is always bias kind of brought to it.
Speaker 4: Whoever the filmmaker is will kind of welcome more.
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: Really? That would be quite amazing. I wonder if they.
Speaker 1: Lean just keep talking about Flint, Michigan. I'm about Flint,
Speaker 1: Michigan so much. Now that's where you grew up. It's
Speaker 1: got nothing to do nothing.
Speaker 2: Literally, I wonder if that will lean into or not
Speaker 2: lean into brother we'll explore the assertions that she may
Speaker 2: not be guilty or if it's going no, these are
Speaker 2: the facts, and this is what a jury has discovered. This,
Speaker 2: this is a fact she's a monster.
Speaker 1: Which is you know what they should do. I just
Speaker 1: find it interesting if they are sew up to date
Speaker 1: and they discussed the review that was undertaken. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting that a panel came forward volunteered to
Speaker 1: say that, and that That's why I thought it was
Speaker 1: important to say that the original pediatrician did he was retired,
Speaker 1: but he did volunteer. Yes, so the police didn't go
Speaker 1: to him. He volunteered and that was his evidence that
Speaker 1: he found right, And so that could.
Speaker 2: Be seen as AE.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that could be a strange thing. But also then
Speaker 1: you know, doctor Suley from Canada came out and said
Speaker 1: there is no way that we can say this as
Speaker 1: and also included fourteen other neonatal specialists. I just find
Speaker 1: it really interesting. I just wonder that compulsion was for
Speaker 1: them to come forward and say that, because why are
Speaker 1: you disagreeing with another? You know, and the justice and
Speaker 1: the justice system is well ten month trial, yes, where
Speaker 1: they were found guilty. So that's that's I just found
Speaker 1: that really interesting as a kind of a footnote to
Speaker 1: this case that we don't know what's happened.
Speaker 2: Or by the letter of them all we do, but
Speaker 2: it's important to talk about. It's interesting maybe to talk
Speaker 2: about the fact that other people disagree.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, wow, yeah, isn't it's a fascinating story than if.
Speaker 2: We're researching that one because I didn't want to Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, purely selfish reasons for me, is anything, because
Speaker 2: oh god, it's just awful. It's just hard, and I
Speaker 2: think this is exactly what you said. No matter what
Speaker 2: comes out of that, it does not change the fact
Speaker 2: that these families have gone through this and that they've.
Speaker 1: Lost their babies, and that you know, at the most
Speaker 1: critical time of their lives as well, you know, like
Speaker 1: it was the sad is I want to end and
Speaker 1: I wrote this again at the end. Wolves are easy
Speaker 1: to spot, sharp teeth, yellow eyes, a hunger that shows
Speaker 1: itself in the way they move, But the most dangerous
Speaker 1: wolves learn early how to soften their steps, how to
Speaker 1: lower their gaze, how to wear gentleness like a borrowed skin.
Speaker 1: In this place, softness was the uniform. Voices stayed low,
Speaker 1: hands were careful, Smiles were meant to reassure. Lives small
Speaker 1: enough to fit in the crook of an arm depended
Speaker 1: on routines, trust, and the unspoken faith that those who
Speaker 1: stood what through the night were there to protect. No
Speaker 1: one thought to question the figure who blended so completely
Speaker 1: into that promise, who spoke the language of care fluently,
Speaker 1: who appeared when alarm sounded, who seemed to grieve when
Speaker 1: things went wrong. That was the story of a wolf
Speaker 1: in sheep's clothing, not one that prow on the edges,
Speaker 1: but one that stood at the center of the flock.
Speaker 1: It is a story about how evil does not always
Speaker 1: announce itself with noise or chaos, but sometimes arrives quietly,
Speaker 1: wrapped in kindness, waiting for the moment when no one
Speaker 1: is looking closely enough to see the teeth beneath the wall.
Speaker 1: We're back with a mailbang section in just a moment, Hey, everybody,
Speaker 1: it's a mail bag section.
Speaker 2: She eats a mail bag eats a mail bag.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. The first Internet letter comes
Speaker 1: from Gemma with a J. There's so many, so many
Speaker 1: gems and Sammy and g this is Gemma with a J.
Speaker 1: But if you can call me Emma with a silent
Speaker 1: J whatever, haha. I want to commend you both for
Speaker 1: your story on the clut Up family murders, in particular
Speaker 1: not making a joke of the name Dick Hickcock. Incredible
Speaker 1: restraint and honestly I'm proud of you both.
Speaker 2: Thank you, girl.
Speaker 1: I have a question. Do you ever have a moment
Speaker 1: where you listen back to something and think, I wish
Speaker 1: I'd made that joke there. I will play moments all
Speaker 1: the time in my head as well as making jokes
Speaker 1: along with YouTube. It really feels like this is a
Speaker 1: dinner party where you put out the extra chair for
Speaker 1: us lucky folk. Love you both, Jim, Emma with the
Speaker 1: island JA.
Speaker 2: Oh god, Jam that's one of my favorite messages.
Speaker 1: That's great. We love that.
Speaker 2: I really really really love when people say it feels
Speaker 2: like they're yes with us because that's what we do.
Speaker 2: That's also very funny. Yeah, I thought when we were
Speaker 2: talking about a horrible murderer. We shouldn't make a dick
Speaker 2: hickcock joke, but I mean it's there for you.
Speaker 1: I know, Yeah, that's you, Mike. You can say that,
Speaker 1: you can giggle along dick kick. But she said, yeah,
Speaker 1: do you ever do you ever make jokes? You go,
Speaker 1: oh god, I wish I could.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so often, you know it's funny as well.
Speaker 2: I'll like listen back to my episodes because you do
Speaker 2: all the editing. Yeah, so you listen while you're editing.
Speaker 2: I will then listen to the finish thing when it's
Speaker 2: out there. You know, what's my theater and what's not
Speaker 2: for you know, when people message us and to respond
Speaker 2: and everything, And I'll hear you say something, and as
Speaker 2: I'm listening, like in my car or whatever, I'll kind
Speaker 2: of in my head comment what I think of a comment,
Speaker 2: And then I hear myself in the recording comment. I
Speaker 2: was just like, oh yeah, I am just myself from
Speaker 2: that because I've thought of the same comeback right now
Speaker 2: as well, and I already did it.
Speaker 1: This one come from Nicola. What a fabulous episode. This
Speaker 1: is a John Ronson episode. Oh yeah, John Ronson, John Rostrom.
Speaker 1: John Ronson is such an interesting man, really appreciate this
Speaker 1: great listen. Thank you Sam in Georgia. Oh, thank you,
Speaker 1: we love, we love John Ronson. That was so much fun.
Speaker 2: I went straight to work after that recording and I
Speaker 2: was a bit hag and I went and I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, actually no, no, I wasn't late. But it
Speaker 2: was one of the girl's birthdays, so I had said
Speaker 2: if I could come in earlier, would And I said, sorry,
Speaker 2: didn't make the birthday cake a bit but and I
Speaker 2: was like, this, guess who I just interviewed, John Rod said,
Speaker 2: And everyone was like, oh, I don't know who that is?
Speaker 2: Something to say everyone. There was just a couple of
Speaker 2: people work like, oh, I don't know who that is. Sorry,
Speaker 2: And I was like, don't take away my sparkle. I'm
Speaker 2: so excited coming behigh that.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, those people are uncle, grow yeah, grow up.
Speaker 1: I don't know. This one comes from Vicky. You ready
Speaker 1: for this?
Speaker 5: I thought i'd ring an ad for the person that
Speaker 5: wrote in about the movie Evil Angels that it came
Speaker 5: from a book called Evil Angels by John Bryson. It
Speaker 5: has a lot of information about the investigations as well.
Speaker 1: From my memory, I.
Speaker 5: Had to study it in the early nineties for Year
Speaker 5: twelve English text.
Speaker 2: Oh god, so that's about the one about Lindy and
Speaker 2: Michael chamber. Actually, my sister said to me about the film,
Speaker 2: about the film, Yes, yeah, Evil Angels. She said, that's
Speaker 2: why that cat cry, you know, the catchphrase the Dingo's
Speaker 2: got my baby. That's why that's so famous infamous America
Speaker 2: was because of Meryl.
Speaker 4: Streep saying it in the movie Oh wow.
Speaker 2: And that's why it's misquoted because apparently in the movie
Speaker 2: she says something goes stole my baby or whatever the
Speaker 2: misquoting is that she says in the movie. And that's
Speaker 2: why on like Seinfeld and The Simpsons and stuff, that's
Speaker 2: so quoted as the Australian thing because it's Meryl Streep
Speaker 2: doing it in this Australian accent and that kind of
Speaker 2: that's kind of what made it even more famous than
Speaker 2: just the pus itself.
Speaker 1: To check the film out as well, because yeah, we.
Speaker 2: Have said everyone to watch it. I just can't imagine
Speaker 2: it's good.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I feel like if Meryl Streep did it and it's
Speaker 2: about a famous Australian case, why haven't we seen it?
Speaker 1: I know, I know it's so funny. I saw a
Speaker 1: meme the other day that had like just a dog
Speaker 1: on the chair and it said on the back Meryl Streep.
Speaker 2: Okay on this, are there any move like? Is there
Speaker 2: a movie that you haven't seen that? Everyone is really
Speaker 2: surprised you haven't seen.
Speaker 1: Rival.
Speaker 2: That's no movie, baby girl?
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, probably. I mean I haven't seen what good Fellows.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen good Fellows.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I know I neither of us. This will
Speaker 2: surprise you because you know my beautiful friend Shannade, who
Speaker 2: lives in Lonnie, who I was just hanging out with
Speaker 2: for the weekend. Now, if you think I love musical
Speaker 2: theater said, is like a singing, walking, talking, singing, dancing
Speaker 2: version of me.
Speaker 1: She hasn't seen Spirited.
Speaker 2: She hasn't seen high school musical. I discovered this today
Speaker 2: after her thirteen years. She has not seen high school musical. Like,
Speaker 2: hang on, Sammy, you haven't seen high school musical? No?
Speaker 1: Okay, well, guess what makes way more sense than it does?
Speaker 2: Make more sense than Shade, But it doesn't make sense
Speaker 2: as my best person, my best person, my best friend,
Speaker 2: and I was thinking your favorite person, I just got
Speaker 2: to oh, you are my best person. We're watching high
Speaker 2: school musical together.
Speaker 1: Oh weh okay, Like I think for like TV shows
Speaker 1: and stuff for more, like I haven't seen Breaking Bad.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen those sorts of shows. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but films, I don't know the film.
Speaker 2: It's like two hours. Breaking Bad is like a big commitment.
Speaker 1: But a movie.
Speaker 2: I've never seen a Star War.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love a Star War.
Speaker 4: I've only seen one James Bond, have you yeah?
Speaker 2: When the last one is the only one I've seen
Speaker 2: where spoiler alerts Boilerhead skip ahead if you don't if
Speaker 2: you haven't seen it, the one where he dies. So
Speaker 2: I was very confused. I was confused by everyone being like,
Speaker 2: shook us at that, because I was like, does that.
Speaker 1: Not every film? Hey, we've got two voice smails? But
Speaker 1: it's part one and part two, and it comes from
Speaker 1: someone I've heard from before, and I really bloody like
Speaker 1: them because I love their name on that much.
Speaker 7: Woody Woody, Hello friends, into your favorite long winded listener
Speaker 7: and caller Woody with respect to the recent episode on
Speaker 7: the Cecil Hotel. The Cescal Hotel, I believe both pronunciations
Speaker 7: are correct depending now.
Speaker 6: But also my call funnily enough is about pronunciations, because.
Speaker 2: My actual name is Alisa, much like.
Speaker 7: In the episode Lisa Lamb, mine is spelt E double
Speaker 7: l I s A.
Speaker 2: Who's his E l s A.
Speaker 6: But I wanted to call and congratulate you, Georgia on
Speaker 6: beautiful pronunciation.
Speaker 2: Georgia, if you were giving her of Alisa, you did.
Speaker 6: End up changing throughout the episode, I'm sure a few
Speaker 6: times and started calling her Alissa.
Speaker 2: Which is actually my Paudrey pee.
Speaker 6: Mispronuncia my name because I think Alissa should have a
Speaker 6: double s right.
Speaker 2: Yes, so it really peeves me when people get it wrong. Yeah,
Speaker 2: fair enough.
Speaker 6: You were doing so beautifully, but I swear you have
Speaker 6: to go back get the receipts.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you jump around a little bit. Yeah I did.
Speaker 7: Anyway, Still love your work.
Speaker 2: It was an awesome episode, but.
Speaker 1: Go back and have listen.
Speaker 2: Oh Alisa Woodie, we love you, love I did. I
Speaker 2: realized when I was listening back to what I said
Speaker 2: A Lissa a couple of times. I think I was
Speaker 2: like questioning myself because I was going between Cecil and cecil.
Speaker 2: I questioned whether it was a Lisa be right because
Speaker 2: the name so l I s A is Lisa, so
Speaker 2: with an in front of that is Alisa, So thank
Speaker 2: you for crediting me, sorry for also getting it wrong
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 1: We have part two of this speak pipe as well.
Speaker 1: That comes from our good friend Woody and Lisa A
Speaker 1: Lisa Woody one in the same ready for this, Yes, hello, sorry.
Speaker 2: It's Woody again.
Speaker 1: I just need to clarify.
Speaker 6: I am aware that mispronunciate is not a word I
Speaker 6: believe I said in my previous speaker.
Speaker 2: An.
Speaker 1: I guess it serves me right for going in.
Speaker 2: And correcting you. Oh my god, that's so funny because
Speaker 2: if she didn't clarify, I assumed it was joke Dad.
Speaker 2: But see, you know what, You've got to be able
Speaker 2: to admit when you're wrong.
Speaker 1: And if I ever am, I will We love a
Speaker 1: second part as well. Looks like and you walk off
Speaker 1: in the same direction. Oh just one more thing. This
Speaker 1: comes from Matt, Sammy, P and g Love. I thoroughly
Speaker 1: enjoyed when I'm casually playing a video game Final Fantasy
Speaker 1: and I can't help but read the flavor text of
Speaker 1: a quest as said in your podcast. I implore you
Speaker 1: your magistrates have that, and there is there is a
Speaker 1: great Screenshohn here where it says I employed imp I
Speaker 1: implore you, thanks mate, We love. We don't know anything
Speaker 1: about gaming, but.
Speaker 2: We now we do. Now we know that that game
Speaker 2: says I employ you at the end.
Speaker 1: I know, but it's a final Fantasy online. But x
Speaker 1: I V online? What do you mean Roman numerals fifteen
Speaker 1: fifteen online?
Speaker 2: Is that what it is?
Speaker 1: Fifteen fifteen XIV no expert come online?
Speaker 2: Obviously maths not my strong boy in English or Roman?
Speaker 1: Have I got this one from Rahn? Hello? Sorry, I
Speaker 1: don't have Instagram, so I'm sending an old fashioned email
Speaker 1: about Elisa Lissen Lisa. About Elisa and how she managed
Speaker 1: to get into the water tank. It looks like there
Speaker 1: is access from the roof of the hotel itself. It
Speaker 1: would have taken a lot of efforts, so I don't
Speaker 1: think it answers every question, but it does look like
Speaker 1: she could have gotten up there somehow that easily jumped
Speaker 1: onto the tank.
Speaker 4: Or from the hotel next hotel next door.
Speaker 1: Also, I remember watching a YouTube video from someone who
Speaker 1: wanted to see if they could get up the water
Speaker 1: tanks themselves. Apparently the door to the rooftop was left
Speaker 1: wide open. I don't think security is great at the hotel.
Speaker 1: In my pinion, Elisa's story is a very tragic accident,
Speaker 1: and I think it's awful that she was so far
Speaker 1: from home and clearly suffering from a scary mental health episode.
Speaker 1: I definitely got sucked into this because when it first broke,
Speaker 1: but when it first broke, but now it makes me sad.
Speaker 1: Love the podcast, guys, Thank you for your hard work.
Speaker 1: And she's actually attached our photos of people in the
Speaker 1: there as well, try.
Speaker 2: Trying to do it so that were.
Speaker 1: I've got two more let's and on two more ar Dean,
Speaker 1: Hey ya, guys, love your work. I wanted to write
Speaker 1: in with a theory about that Lisa.
Speaker 2: Lamb case people are obsessed with there.
Speaker 1: I believe that Alisa witnessed something that she shouldn't have
Speaker 1: done soon after arriving at the hotel. The trauma of
Speaker 1: what she witness triggered something with her mental health and
Speaker 1: led to a strange behavior in the lead up to
Speaker 1: her disappearance. I think she was tracked down and killed
Speaker 1: because of what she witnessed. A lot of people seem
Speaker 1: to think of the murder versus mental health situation as
Speaker 1: separate theories, but I think both are not only plausible
Speaker 1: but the most logical for future EP would love for
Speaker 1: you to do one on the Uber County five. It's
Speaker 1: one of the weirdest cases out Why you be a
Speaker 1: you of the weirdest cases I've ever heard, and so
Speaker 1: much about it is baffling. Love your work and love
Speaker 1: how you've taken a different approach to the true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: Love Yours Dean from Melbourne, Love.
Speaker 2: You Dean from Melbourne.
Speaker 1: I'm going to write that one down in my listen Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolut I'm going to end on Stephanie, Hi, Sammy and Georgia.
Speaker 1: Happy anniversary. You guys should be proud. What an impressive
Speaker 1: milestone as a lady of impeccable podcast tastes who considers
Speaker 1: herself to be a day one listener. NACP is the best.
Speaker 1: I love listening every week and I'm really proud of
Speaker 1: you both. At the top of the episode, Sammy always says,
Speaker 1: keep leaving five star reviews, and I would, but bloody
Speaker 1: only let you have one go anyway, keep up the
Speaker 1: awesome work. We love and appreciate you, steph How nice
Speaker 1: is that? And then she writes, PS tell g to
Speaker 1: check her ig dms. She's missing so many hilarious slash
Speaker 1: horrendous replies to her for is in my humble sorry
Speaker 1: is dead? How great is that? That's so funny?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Isn't that the best? We absolutely love hearing from your listeners,
Speaker 1: So please do right in Sammy at just another company
Speaker 1: dot com dot a. You leave us a goddamn voicemail.
Speaker 1: You can do that. All the links are below. You
Speaker 1: can watch us on YouTube. All these episodes go up.
Speaker 1: Episodes go up on there. What should they do? Should
Speaker 1: they leave a five star rating.
Speaker 2: Living Yes, they need to leave a five star rating,
Speaker 2: five sour review and follow us on TikTok and Instagram
Speaker 2: and YouTube add not another crime podcast? And then they
Speaker 2: need to also tell us a poetery.
Speaker 1: Pee Oh god, you love? Would you love to tell
Speaker 1: me a poetry? Peace for today?
Speaker 2: So I have one that has been influenced by May
Speaker 2: weekend away at the festival, and it's actually a double
Speaker 2: edged pauldry peeve. So there are two peeves, but they
Speaker 2: are the opposite of each other. So I do realize
Speaker 2: that there's no way of fixing it because both options
Speaker 2: of what happened now peeve me. The first part of
Speaker 2: it is encuse bands doing Encouse. He's a peeve because
Speaker 2: it's like, just play all your song like obviously, if
Speaker 2: you haven't played your biggest song, we don't believe that
Speaker 2: you're actually leaving right, don't waste our time, don't you
Speaker 2: don't need to big up your own ego getting us
Speaker 2: all screen for you to come. But then the one
Speaker 2: web side of that is because that is so common
Speaker 2: I have found out when Boy and Bear performed on Sunday,
Speaker 2: I found a new peeve and that is when there
Speaker 2: is no one okay, because it's now such an expected
Speaker 2: things accepted on cour on course. So when they finished
Speaker 2: and said thank you and then they walked off and
Speaker 2: then they didn't come back, I was like.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, I guess that's it there.
Speaker 2: So actually peeve is the former. I don't like encorse,
Speaker 2: they're unnecessary, but because they're so common now there is
Speaker 2: a new people, which is when they don't do them.
Speaker 2: So I think Boy and Man needs to be setting
Speaker 2: the trend and everyone needs to follow them. Just play
Speaker 2: your best songs and get out.
Speaker 1: And you can get out. Well. I will say a
Speaker 1: similar thing in that shows that go way over. So
Speaker 1: during like a festal something no, no, no, like a
Speaker 1: festival season something, You're going to see a comedy show,
Speaker 1: comedy festival, and that goes ten minutes over, so the
Speaker 1: next show goes ten minutes over to the next show.
Speaker 1: And I did it myself. So when I recorded my
Speaker 1: show at the recorded it for The Comedy of You,
Speaker 1: I went so over.
Speaker 2: You peeved yourself.
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't even know that I went over. The
Speaker 1: reason that I went over is cause our good friend
Speaker 1: Joe Creasy messaged me and so I wanted to stay
Speaker 1: for the ending, but it just went for like it
Speaker 1: went way over. I was like, no, I didn't. And
Speaker 1: because I so up on the it was just after
Speaker 1: daylight savings and they hadn't changed the clock, so I
Speaker 1: thought I was way under, and I was going, oh no,
Speaker 1: oh my god. And I finished the show going, oh shit,
Speaker 1: I remember everything I remember, and then I looked at
Speaker 1: my watch. I was like, oh no, and I've gone like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've gone to full, like fifteen minutes over or something
Speaker 1: like more than that. But because the show had an
Speaker 1: opening and all this other stuff and we started to
Speaker 1: film and everything, so that went way over. But oh
Speaker 1: my god, and so yeah, I did it myself. And
Speaker 1: so when you peeve myself. But when you're like at
Speaker 1: a comedy festival or something and you've lined up to
Speaker 1: see two.
Speaker 2: Or three shows that night, you've only got there.
Speaker 1: You've only got ten minutes run, and it's really hard
Speaker 1: when something goes over and you had to run as
Speaker 1: quickly as you came to the next one, and you
Speaker 1: missed like the first five minutes of that one. I
Speaker 1: did that once when I was maybe fifteen years old, no,
Speaker 1: maybe fifteen or sixteen, must have been fifteen, and came
Speaker 1: up to the city and my brother and I went
Speaker 1: to go and see Judith Lucy, and that the deal
Speaker 1: was I got to pick one and he got to
Speaker 1: pick one. So we went to see Judith Lucy. Obviously
Speaker 1: choice was my choice and his was Arch Barker. Just
Speaker 1: in case Barker is listening, I don't hate you, but
Speaker 1: I don't hate Ed Barker. You wouldn't have chosen I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have chosen Baker. And so we're walking out of
Speaker 1: We have to leave early because like it's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Judith Lucy started ten minutes later. Bah blah
Speaker 1: blah and we're walking out, and I really don't want
Speaker 1: to walk out, and we have to walk out and
Speaker 1: Judith Lucy leans down in mine and my brother's face
Speaker 1: because we had to pass her to walk out. I
Speaker 1: had to go by the stage to walk out of
Speaker 1: the door. And she leans down and she goes, what
Speaker 1: are you doing? And we went I went, oh, my
Speaker 1: brother book tickets to go and see another show, and
Speaker 1: Judith goes, who is it? Then and then my brother said,
Speaker 1: arch Barker, arch Barker, He's not even fucking fun And
Speaker 1: then and then as we were leaving, she just kept shouting,
Speaker 1: He's not even fucking funny.
Speaker 2: I'm a legend.
Speaker 1: So sorry, my queen. I'm so sorry, my beautiful queen,
Speaker 1: the best comedian in the world in my opinion, yelling
Speaker 1: at us the Narchbuck's not funny.
Speaker 2: I was like, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1: I couldn't be by myself anyway. Thank you, everyone, Also.
Speaker 2: Quickly talking about comedians, and a shout out to our
Speaker 2: good friend Joel Crazy you just brought up. Shout out
Speaker 2: to Joel Creesy. He has just announced he's got his
Speaker 2: own national radio show on Nova lunchtimes, starting I think
Speaker 2: in April. So Congratulations to our friend Joel.
Speaker 1: Congratulations to our friend.
Speaker 2: Congratulations to our friend Joel, even though he is on
Speaker 2: a competing network to me.
Speaker 1: And also the other thing is that we hope that
Speaker 1: you enjoy the documentary on Lucy let Be as well.
Speaker 1: Thank you for this awful, awful story this week, but
Speaker 1: we'll see you next week. Listeners.
Speaker 2: I'm going to make Sammy wat cheated rivalry this week.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. We're going to the cottage
Speaker 1: baby talk, well talk stuff