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Speaker 1: Now we know the Northern Territory government announced a little

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Speaker 1: bit earlier this week an additional one million dollars for

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Speaker 1: Legal Aid NT which is planning to significantly cut back

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Speaker 1: its services amid a funding crisis. Now Legal Aid had

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Speaker 1: announced plans to stop accepting new adult clients facing criminal

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Speaker 1: charges from January one, which would have significant ramifications on

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Speaker 1: the justice system. It is something that we've spoken about

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Speaker 1: at length over recent weeks and around the concerns. Now

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Speaker 1: yesterday I spoke to the Attorney General, Mary Clare Boothby,

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Speaker 1: who said that she had met with Legal Aid committing

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Speaker 1: the funding as a short term solution while long term

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Speaker 1: plans are worked through as part of that budget process.

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Speaker 1: But as we've discussed this morning on the week that was,

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Speaker 1: we know that we've got around forty one percent of

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Speaker 1: our prisoners currently in the correctional facilities are on remand

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Speaker 1: there is no doubt that there's some huge delays facing

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Speaker 1: our court system. Now joining us on the line is

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Speaker 1: the Criminal Lawyers Association of the Northern Territories NTY President

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Speaker 1: Beth Wild.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Beth, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time this morning. Now, Beth,

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Speaker 1: in terms of the additional one million dollars that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government has announced for legal aid. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that's going to make much of a difference.

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Speaker 2: It's not going to make the difference that's required. So

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Speaker 2: we've been told are the private profession that they won't

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Speaker 2: be able to resume business as usual as a result

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Speaker 2: of that one million dollar investment, but that they're not

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Speaker 2: yet sure as to what that will mean to their

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Speaker 2: service cuts.

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Speaker 1: It must make it difficult for them in terms of

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Speaker 1: that forward planning, and it must make it difficult when

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Speaker 1: you look at this whole situation more broadly.

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Speaker 2: It does make it difficult where we're looking at trials

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Speaker 2: in early next year where people don't have lawyers at

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Speaker 2: the moment. So we had the first of the applications

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Speaker 2: made this week as to whether or not the trial

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Speaker 2: can even proceed without a lawyer for a trial is

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Speaker 2: sit on the sixth of January, and that decision hasn't

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Speaker 2: been made yet by the court. That bail was granted.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and so we spoke about that a little

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Speaker 1: earlier in the week. I know the ABC was reporting

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday that a man who'd appeared in the Anti

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court in Darwin, charge with serious offenses, was released

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Speaker 1: on bail, partly due to uncertainty around whether his trial

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Speaker 1: could proceed. Now unable to afford his own lawyer, the

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Speaker 1: man had been receiving legal representation from a private criminal

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Speaker 1: law firm, an arrangement which was funded by NT Legal Aids.

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Speaker 1: So I mean not only that situation, but Beth, do

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Speaker 1: you think that we could potentially see more of that?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm aware of one application that's being made today

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Speaker 2: and they'll be likely more next week for all of

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Speaker 2: those trials that are listed in the January February period

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Speaker 2: where people are unlikely to be represented in their matters,

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Speaker 2: and so we may see people getting bail and stays

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Speaker 2: been granted by the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 1: So best I mean just breaking that down for our

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Speaker 1: listeners who've maybe never been through any kind of court

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Speaker 1: process before. One application made today for one of those

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Speaker 1: cases for next year. Now, I'm not expecting you to

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Speaker 1: go into specifics, but sort of talk us through. You

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Speaker 1: know what that means exactly.

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Speaker 2: So what it could mean and what we saw earlier

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Speaker 2: this week is bail. So though the court can take

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Speaker 2: it into account, like you just said, as to the

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Speaker 2: cause of delay, So the Bail Act allows the court

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Speaker 2: to look at delay as a reason for granting bail.

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Speaker 2: So whilst the ultimate decision as to whether or not

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Speaker 2: the trial is day, meaning it doesn't happen until such

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Speaker 2: time that funding is in place, is what that means.

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Speaker 2: So people are likely they will be given bail until

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Speaker 2: such time as they can have the fair trial, that's

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Speaker 2: what it means.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, there's going to be people listening this morning

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Speaker 1: who feel quite upset about that situation. You know, they

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Speaker 1: may be thinking to themselves, could this mean that we

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Speaker 1: have got you know, we've got people that could be

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Speaker 1: dangerous out on the street.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: The other side of that is the fact that we've

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Speaker 1: got people who can't actually get legal representation. I mean,

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Speaker 1: as the president of the Criminal Lawyers Association for the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory, how do you feel about that whole situation.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's coming also at the time when we've got

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Speaker 2: just real crisis in the prison system as well, with

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Speaker 2: just overwhelming amounts of people in custody, and that's got

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Speaker 2: safety issues too, we're hearing from the unions. So it

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Speaker 2: does seem that the system is a huge amount of

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Speaker 2: unsustainable pressure. We're talking about delays, the amount of people

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Speaker 2: on remand and if it buckled, then it's not doing

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Speaker 2: the job that it needs to do just keep the

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Speaker 2: community safe.

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Speaker 1: We spoke to the Attorney General on the show yesterday,

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Speaker 1: Marie Claire Boothby. She said that there are discussions underway

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Speaker 1: with the federal government as well in relation to you

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Speaker 1: to additional funding. You know, from your perspective, what needs

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Speaker 1: to happen here.

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Speaker 2: From the outside of perspectives, it seems to me that

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Speaker 2: the various government bodies, so be at federal or local

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Speaker 2: and legal aid, really need to get together and not

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Speaker 2: out what it means so even and I hope that

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Speaker 2: that communication can be a little bit better to sort

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Speaker 2: out what the funding requirements are and who should be

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Speaker 2: paying for it and what it's going to take to

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Speaker 2: get the services up and running.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Best you know, when you look at how full

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Speaker 1: the prisons are at this point in time, my understanding

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Speaker 1: is that there's around forty one percent of the prisoners

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Speaker 1: are currently on remand. So I mean that indicates to me,

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Speaker 1: and correct me if I'm wrong, but that indicates to

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Speaker 1: me that they're obviously waiting to go through the court system.

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Speaker 1: How long are some people waiting.

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Speaker 2: It depends if they're in the local court or and

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. The local court, I think we're talking

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Speaker 2: up to about eight months to get a hearing date

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Speaker 2: if someone's pleading not guilty. To get up to the

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court, can take up to a year to even

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Speaker 2: get to the Supreme Court, and then potentially another year

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Speaker 2: to get a trial date. So those are the sorts

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Speaker 2: of numbers. There has been an increase in the amount

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Speaker 2: of time it's taking to get to finality in these cases,

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Speaker 2: which is impacting the remand rate.

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Speaker 1: You know what would help to speed things up.

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Speaker 2: So I think appointing another local court judge could help

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Speaker 2: matters utilizing full days in court. I also think is

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Speaker 2: another good idea to make sure that matters are getting

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Speaker 2: reached every day. We know that that is something that's

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Speaker 2: really increased recently, the amount of matters that aren't getting

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Speaker 2: reached in a day, and that means they get adjourned

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Speaker 2: to the next day. So that means that we're seeing

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Speaker 2: a lot more adjournments and a greater amount of time

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Speaker 2: in reaching matters. So if we're able to get small

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Speaker 2: efficiencies like that and ensure that the legal aid services

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Speaker 2: are adequately funded, because if they're not, then we're seeing

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Speaker 2: extra delays as well, and that's putting a pressure on

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Speaker 2: the prisons and the watch housers. So small efficiencies like

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Speaker 2: that can make a big difference.

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Speaker 1: And I'm assuming that those things do require some additional

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Speaker 1: funding as well to appoint an additional judge and to

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Speaker 1: get those efficiencies within the court system.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but you could do it in a cost effective way.

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Speaker 2: And really, when you're talking about the amount of money

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Speaker 2: that's getting spent on over time for corrections officers that

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Speaker 2: if we can look at the other end of things

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Speaker 2: to make things more efficient, it's actually it's probably saved money.

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Speaker 2: So it's not a huge amount of money that needs

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Speaker 2: to be investing. It just needs to be prioritized as

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Speaker 2: an important part of the justice system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, look, something's got to change. By the sounds of it,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can see that things are really sort

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Speaker 1: of falling short in a number of different areas. And

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Speaker 1: I guess it's become so so obvious to everybody at

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Speaker 1: the moment, given the huge number of prisoners that we've got,

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Speaker 1: and given the huge number of those prisoners that are

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Speaker 1: actually on remand it's sort of made it really obvious

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Speaker 1: to everyday territorians that there is definitely some hold ups here.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, and I also urge people to think

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Speaker 2: about alternatives to imprisonment. Not everybody is a dangerous person

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Speaker 2: that's in prison. So you can start to look at

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Speaker 2: those people and if they could be on bail, or

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Speaker 2: if they could be somewhere other than bail, like supported

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Speaker 2: bail accommodation, particularly the women prisoners, if they could be

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Speaker 2: somewhere that wasn't prison and kept the community safe, then

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Speaker 2: we can really start to reduce prison numbers, which will

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Speaker 2: alleviate the pressure best.

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Speaker 1: We always appreciate your time. Anything else we should know

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Speaker 1: about before I let you go this morning.

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Speaker 2: No, I'm always a bit of chat.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thanks so much. We appreciate it.