Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the Podcast
Speaker 1: Millennials who Want Financial Freedom. I'd like to make space
Speaker 1: for Auntie Manya Andrews to give an acknowledgment of country.
Speaker 2: Lunga man Lardi, nunger Man Lardi Amba, nunger Man Lardi Oran,
Speaker 2: Nunga man Lardi, Umbora, Newboroh, nunger Man Ladi, Waddy Waddy
Speaker 2: Darawa Boro. We say hello, Nunga man Lardi, and we
Speaker 2: acknowledge all the traditional owners right across Australia. We say
Speaker 2: Lungermen Ladi Mbora, Newborow and of course acknowledge the wady
Speaker 2: whatddy people of the Darawah nation where we live and work.
Speaker 2: So Nunga man Lardi, She's on the money.
Speaker 3: She's on the money.
Speaker 4: Hello and welcome to She's on the Money, the Podcast
Speaker 4: for Millennials who want Financial Freedom. This week we are
Speaker 4: breaking the bias and we are throwing out all of
Speaker 4: our regular programmed episodes to really embrace International Women's Day,
Speaker 4: which as a team we are now calling International Women's
Speaker 4: wik Today we are going to be joined by Auntie
Speaker 4: Manya Andrews and Karla Rodgers, who are the living embodiment
Speaker 4: of this year's International Women's Day theme, breaking the Bias.
Speaker 1: We're the founders of Evolve Communities and you might have
Speaker 1: seen Auntie Manya floating around in her Ask Auntie video
Speaker 1: series where she works really hard to share some cultural
Speaker 1: insights that we might not be privy to you and
Speaker 1: to educate in the space of allyship.
Speaker 4: Auntie Manya and Carla share a belief that absolutely everyone
Speaker 4: has a value and that all people have wisdom to offer.
Speaker 4: Their work is all about spotlighting the unique wisdom indigenous
Speaker 4: culture has to offer, and we are so privileged to
Speaker 4: have them on the show today.
Speaker 1: We're going to chat today a little bit about your
Speaker 1: incredible work with Evolved Communities in the space of cultural
Speaker 1: awarenes and training, but also to learn a little bit
Speaker 1: about you to as business women, because I think you've
Speaker 1: really built on this incredible dynamic and serviced a real
Speaker 1: need I think that is out there. So I'm really
Speaker 1: really thrilled to chat to you about that a little bit.
Speaker 1: But I guess to get started, could you tell us
Speaker 1: how you guys met and how this all initially developed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we first met eleven years ago now ten
Speaker 2: eleven years ago up in the Gulf country of Queensland.
Speaker 2: Karla was doing a project. I was invited on to
Speaker 2: be part of the team and through our discussions with
Speaker 2: one another, we realized that actually we shared a number
Speaker 2: of common values. One was about respecting all views and
Speaker 2: that everybody has something to contribute and also broader visionalists
Speaker 2: to create a more inclusive kind of Australia. So we
Speaker 2: got chatting about then what can we do to to
Speaker 2: go about creat It.
Speaker 5: Was funny because Auntie Manya was a We had a
Speaker 5: last minute scratching in that project and someone said, oh
Speaker 5: I know this amazing woman that would be great and
Speaker 5: Auntie Manya came in and ended up being co lead
Speaker 5: on that project. And then probably fast forward about five
Speaker 5: years when we Auntie Manya had been working with us
Speaker 5: quite a lot, we decided we want to achieve this
Speaker 5: as Aneimnya said, a kind of more inclusive Australia and
Speaker 5: how are we going to do that? And we thought, well,
Speaker 5: it's through our ship we need. You know, we had
Speaker 5: a big, bold vision of having ten million more allies
Speaker 5: across Australia and then we thought well, okay, that's wonderful,
Speaker 5: but then how are we going to do that? And
Speaker 5: that's when Auntie Manya came into the business as as
Speaker 5: co director and we really really sat down and scratched
Speaker 5: our heads and it developed all the programs that we
Speaker 5: have now, which are very much, very practical and focused
Speaker 5: on ollyship.
Speaker 1: Incredible, and we're going to talk a little bit more
Speaker 1: about those different programs that you offer a little bit
Speaker 1: later in the show, I believe.
Speaker 4: But first I would love to know a little bit
Speaker 4: more about evolved communities. You mentioned that you came together obviously,
Speaker 4: Carla you started it, and then Anti Money you joined it.
Speaker 4: It started in two thousand and five by you, Carla,
Speaker 4: which was a fair while ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm showing how always anymore. And again there's lots
Speaker 3: of funny stories about that.
Speaker 5: I was actually living in a coastal village and the
Speaker 5: far south coast of New South Wales, and I actually
Speaker 5: ran webinars when they first came out, and I ran
Speaker 5: what was called a Leading Lights series and I used
Speaker 5: to interview it was in the space of community engagement
Speaker 5: and facilitation, and I interviewed Leading Lights in that space
Speaker 5: and yeah, from a garage in Naruma. And I just
Speaker 5: remember one time I think I had about and it
Speaker 5: was in I think, I don't know, it was the
Speaker 5: days of go to meeting or something like that we're using.
Speaker 5: And I remember having seen about four hundred odd people
Speaker 5: from across the globe joining to this call, and then
Speaker 5: I heard the whipper snipper start, and that.
Speaker 4: Is all too common.
Speaker 5: All of a sudden, I saw these four hundred people
Speaker 5: like popping off a perch, drop off the line as
Speaker 5: the as the whipper snipper man cut the cut the line.
Speaker 3: I know in those days it would have been a
Speaker 3: telephone line.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was going to say, anyone who's been working
Speaker 1: from home over the course of the pandemic would be
Speaker 1: all too familiar with the neighbor out the back mulling
Speaker 1: in the middle of a meeting. But cutting the line
Speaker 1: is arguably a little bit worse.
Speaker 3: That was next level.
Speaker 5: And I just people's perception of probably the business and
Speaker 5: me at the time, was you know, I was in
Speaker 5: this fancy studio and had all this tech and it
Speaker 5: was just a probably a little laptop it in a garage.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's how she's on the money. Started me
Speaker 4: with a microphone, my laptop A do not on the
Speaker 4: table because I heard that you needed to be really
Speaker 4: mindful of sound reverberation, and it got to a point
Speaker 4: where I did have a Dona over my head. So
Speaker 4: we all start somewhere, my friends, and I feel like
Speaker 4: that's part of the journey. It's part of the fun.
Speaker 4: And I think one of my favorite things about She's
Speaker 4: on the Money is looking back on where we've come from.
Speaker 4: And I'm sure you guys are the same because you
Speaker 4: mentioned webinars and now you have this absolutely gorgeous breadth
Speaker 4: of offerings that you put on the table. But you
Speaker 4: were probably a little bit more well known and this
Speaker 4: is where we discovered you on LinkedIn from your Auntie
Speaker 4: Manya video series. How did that become a thing? How
Speaker 4: did you light that up?
Speaker 2: Well, we always had that as when we did face
Speaker 2: to face training. We also had a Q and a
Speaker 2: session that I called Dear Abby at the time, where
Speaker 2: people were free to ask me any questions at all,
Speaker 2: and so it was a natural sort of adaptation of
Speaker 2: that that as we started to branch out more online
Speaker 2: and have an online presence, we decided to have it
Speaker 2: ask Auntie section and so that's how that developed, and
Speaker 2: that's proving to be very popular because it's where people
Speaker 2: can ask questions quite freely not be worried about being judged.
Speaker 2: And we have a philosophy that says there's no such
Speaker 2: thing as a silly question, because how will you know
Speaker 2: otherwise if you don't feel that you can ask any questions?
Speaker 2: So nothing's off limits at all. We welcome all questions
Speaker 2: and just proving to be very popular.
Speaker 3: Yes, and we've been doing it for a long time,
Speaker 3: so we did do it well before. You can't ask that.
Speaker 5: TV program and we were about to launch and ask
Speaker 5: Ali or ask an ally as well. But Andi Manya
Speaker 5: has a great story about our philosophy of how you
Speaker 5: can ask anything Anti Manyo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I always tell people, you know, I've been doing
Speaker 2: this for a long time now, so I've heard pretty
Speaker 2: much all there is to ask about Indigenous people and
Speaker 2: indigenous culture. But every now and then there's a question
Speaker 2: that comes from left field. Like one time I was
Speaker 2: doing this in front of high school students, gosh, probably
Speaker 2: thirty five years ago, Oh my gosh, and one young
Speaker 2: fellow put up his hand and I go, yes, what
Speaker 2: would you like to know? And he goes, I want
Speaker 2: to know how come all Aboriginal people drive valiants? And
Speaker 2: I had to chuckle then as I do now still
Speaker 2: recalling the story, and I said, well, you know, the
Speaker 2: Indigenous community is diversus and we drive a range of cars.
Speaker 2: I happen to drive an MGB sports car because I
Speaker 2: have a passion for those cars. Anyway, I was doing
Speaker 2: this with an older Nunga woman, Nunga being the name
Speaker 2: for the people in the Perth region and the southwest
Speaker 2: of WA and she said to me afterwards, oh, thank
Speaker 2: god you got that question. And I said why and
Speaker 2: she goes, because I drive a Valiant to prove the stereotype.
Speaker 4: But I think they're One thing that I feel like
Speaker 4: is really special about the Ask Auntie series is that
Speaker 4: not only do you do this and you say that
Speaker 4: you are, you know, creating their space to ask these questions,
Speaker 4: but you've genuinely created a space that people feel safe
Speaker 4: to do so as well. It's not a yeah, you
Speaker 4: can ask anything, but you're actually exuding like just this
Speaker 4: feeling of safety to learn and to grow and to
Speaker 4: be better people. And I just want to know a
Speaker 4: bit about you know, you've obviously brought it together so
Speaker 4: that we can learn and create together, but are their
Speaker 4: challenges with that and online in that I guess transferring
Speaker 4: over to you know, people feeling safe to ask those questions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've found actually that it's amazing that people have
Speaker 2: a sit to Color just the other day that all
Speaker 2: the comments people are saying, jeez, thank you for being
Speaker 2: so open and I feel safe with asking you these questions.
Speaker 2: So it's it's transferring over to them in the cyber world,
Speaker 2: and that's pretty amazing that they can pick up on
Speaker 2: that because that's one of the values, isn't it color?
Speaker 2: For us cultural safety? How important it is for people
Speaker 2: to feel free to express themselves in any way. We're
Speaker 2: really mindful of that and that's always in our minds
Speaker 2: whenever we're teaching or training.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's very intentional. So you know, Anti Mania has
Speaker 5: has this presence and demeanor that people do feel safe,
Speaker 5: and then we've my background is in designing spaces for
Speaker 5: people to share and collaborate, and so we are very
Speaker 5: intentional about creating that safety. And one of our key
Speaker 5: messages is there's no place for shame or guilt, and
Speaker 5: particularly as Anti Monya says, everyone has wisdom to offer
Speaker 5: and we value everyone. So we do spend a lot
Speaker 5: of time being intentional about that, well, how do we
Speaker 5: create that? And as Anti Monyu was saying, we have
Speaker 5: we're very values based. We've got three key values. One
Speaker 5: is kindness in kindredness and that's all about kinship, and
Speaker 5: we treat everyone as family in a without not in
Speaker 5: a cultish way, in a way that's right, fun in creativity,
Speaker 5: so we like for all of our spaces to be
Speaker 5: very creative. And the third one is walking our talk.
Speaker 5: So Auntie Manyo and I invite people to pull us
Speaker 5: up if we're not walking our talk, walking our VABs,
Speaker 5: but everything that we do is designed to walk our talk.
Speaker 3: Basically incredible.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, the sense of warmth as you said,
Speaker 1: absolutely does translate because I'm a big fan from LinkedIn,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I think that there's something really comforting and familial,
Speaker 1: as you said about those videos when you talk and
Speaker 1: you share and you are really open. But we spoke,
Speaker 1: we've had a chat with you before today, and we
Speaker 1: spoke a little bit about the burden of education and
Speaker 1: that as much as you're putting yourself out there and
Speaker 1: you're providing these resources, the burden of education shouldn't always
Speaker 1: be on people of color and on women of color,
Speaker 1: particularly because that's what we see happening a lot. And
Speaker 1: this year's International Women's Day theme is break the Bias,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you see that people put that recon responsibility
Speaker 1: back on the people who are trying to do that work,
Speaker 1: which is just not fair. And I'd love to know
Speaker 1: how you strike that balance between being educational, helping literally
Speaker 1: shift the needle on these issues without taking too much
Speaker 1: away from yourselves and taking that responsibility on so deeply
Speaker 1: that it then impacts you.
Speaker 5: It's a great question, and there's a few layers in that.
Speaker 5: I probably start at the simplest layer, and that's where
Speaker 5: I come in as a non indigenous person in Australia.
Speaker 5: If you think, put yourself in a room now and
Speaker 5: imagine yourself in a room of thirty people, Statistically only
Speaker 5: one of those people will be Aboriginal trial Strada Islander
Speaker 5: in Australia.
Speaker 3: Which is not a lot, is it?
Speaker 1: When you think that, you know there's such significant communities
Speaker 1: that have been here longer than anybody else, that statistic
Speaker 1: is quite shocking.
Speaker 3: That's right, Jess.
Speaker 5: And when you talk about the burden, you know, I've
Speaker 5: been very lucky in my career to pretty much always
Speaker 5: work with Aboriginal people and communities. And my observation is
Speaker 5: that I could clock off at five pm, but my
Speaker 5: Aboriginal colleagues couldn't.
Speaker 3: It's twenty four to seven.
Speaker 5: Like their obligations to community there, particularly if they're working
Speaker 5: in a space that delivers services, for example, or to
Speaker 5: Aboriginal communities, they don't.
Speaker 3: Clock off at five o'clock.
Speaker 5: So when we're talking about creating a kind of and
Speaker 5: more inclusive Australia and reconciliation, and this is where the
Speaker 5: twenty nine of us in that room, people like myself
Speaker 5: come into play.
Speaker 3: Is it's us.
Speaker 5: The theme I think for NATOT Week this year is
Speaker 5: show up and stand up. And there's one more I
Speaker 5: can't think of it right now, but you know it's
Speaker 5: up to us to show up and stand up and
Speaker 5: learn what we need to know for reconciliation and for allyship.
Speaker 5: And then we can't keep going to the anti monuals
Speaker 5: of the world who are already very burdened, you know,
Speaker 5: saying feed me, feed me, I ta me, teach me
Speaker 5: like so it's very fantastic to want to learn learn more.
Speaker 5: And then also there's such a rich content that's already
Speaker 5: on TV and books and so make sure that you're
Speaker 5: also engaging with all of.
Speaker 3: That material as well anti money. What do you think
Speaker 3: with that question?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's about sharing the burden. That makes it easier
Speaker 2: on many Indigenous people who are already trying to educate.
Speaker 2: But it's also a two way learning process as well.
Speaker 2: It's for us to learn about other people as well,
Speaker 2: and that helps us in our lives. It's a fine
Speaker 2: balance really maintaining all of that and with the training.
Speaker 5: So and that other layer of your question about us personally,
Speaker 5: and this is I guess you know this fabulous on
Speaker 5: the Money podcast and things like that, is we're looking
Speaker 5: to grow allies and you know for everyone that we're
Speaker 5: connecting with. Today was again without something like a cult,
Speaker 5: but it's like, yeah, it's excusing, let's get on board.
Speaker 2: And it was something that one of our allies having
Speaker 2: gone through. Now we've had an accreditation course since October
Speaker 2: last year. Last year, and one of the participants said, oh,
Speaker 2: it's great to be part of a movement. No one, Yeah,
Speaker 2: a movement. I didn't realize we were creating that, but
Speaker 2: yes we are. Thank you for that.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, you did, you totally did. Yeah, you
Speaker 4: mentioned before that, obviously you've got your Ask Auntie video series,
Speaker 4: and before Carli you said that you were going to
Speaker 4: start and Ask ally series, which I think is so exciting,
Speaker 4: But I think we need to take a little bit
Speaker 4: of a step back. Can you explain to us and
Speaker 4: to our community exactly why allyship is just so important
Speaker 4: and why we really need to be embracing this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So, I guess the simplest answer to that is is
Speaker 5: that around that one in thirty, you know, only three
Speaker 5: percent of the population is at bridgel Intrestralander. And we
Speaker 5: have a framework in the way that we teach. We
Speaker 5: at the seven steps and these are the seven basic
Speaker 5: building blocks we feel that everyone needs to know to
Speaker 5: increase their confidence to be in our eye. I think
Speaker 5: a response to this, which is always so touching, is
Speaker 5: you know, when we ask Auntie manya like, how does
Speaker 5: she feel when she sees like? For example, in two thousands,
Speaker 5: many of your listeners might be too young to remember this,
Speaker 5: but your parents might have anticipated.
Speaker 3: But in two thousand when Kathy Freeman when the.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: But in that same year there was a walk across
Speaker 5: the Harper Bridge for reconciliation and over two hundred and
Speaker 5: fifty thousand people walked across the bridge to show of
Speaker 5: support and say, Auntie.
Speaker 3: Manya, how did you feel. I know you weren't there,
Speaker 3: but how did you feel when you saw that?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: It was just one of the most powerful images in
Speaker 2: our history color And when I saw all those people
Speaker 2: walking across the bridge, I remember thinking at the time, Oh,
Speaker 2: my god, you know they care, and I haven't realized
Speaker 2: just how many people cared, And so that's one of
Speaker 2: the things that really struck me. It makes me quite
Speaker 2: emotional just recalling that now, but that's how I felt
Speaker 2: at the time, and I felt very hopeful for this
Speaker 2: country and where we were going together. If that many
Speaker 2: people could get on that bridge and show that commitment
Speaker 2: and walk together, it was just so promising. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I was very moved by it.
Speaker 3: And Auntie my news, she's cheering up.
Speaker 4: Oh well, we won't tell you how many people listen
Speaker 4: to the podcast, because I guess the aim of this
Speaker 4: is to create an even bigger community of allies and
Speaker 4: you know, bring the community to you, so hopefully we
Speaker 4: can convince some of them to also be on that
Speaker 4: journey with us, because it is really moving to know
Speaker 4: people care like we care. We care deeply, but we
Speaker 4: need to know how to support that as well, because
Speaker 4: I believe deeply that it's one thing to say we care,
Speaker 4: and you said before that's one of your core values.
Speaker 3: Your third value you with.
Speaker 4: Walking your talk. And we can talk about this all
Speaker 4: the time, but can you talk us through what we
Speaker 4: can actually do? How can we have impact? How can
Speaker 4: we support these communities? Because you can only pour from
Speaker 4: a cup so much right before it's empty, how do
Speaker 4: we help keep yours full?
Speaker 2: Well? I think too, it's you know, the question about
Speaker 2: why were we drawn to the allyship concept because that's
Speaker 2: all about taking action Because where that movement came out
Speaker 2: of it was about not just calling yourself an ally,
Speaker 2: but what are you doing about it? And that really
Speaker 2: appealed to us because that's about saying to people, great,
Speaker 2: we know you care and that, but what can you
Speaker 2: do even on a daily basis. And we actually have
Speaker 2: some tips around being an ally and they include things like,
Speaker 2: you know, listen and do your homework, not speaking over
Speaker 2: standing up for people, but not speaking over the voices
Speaker 2: and what are the other ones called?
Speaker 5: It's just our ally is a verb, So it's all
Speaker 5: about action as anti Monya said, and learning from your
Speaker 5: mistakes is a big part of it. And another aspect
Speaker 5: which was kind of really I had to think about
Speaker 5: this a lot, but allyship is about your impact, not
Speaker 5: your intent, so being mindful of the impact. But we
Speaker 5: provide really simple ways and suggestions all the time throughout
Speaker 5: different social media and everything about like, for example, on
Speaker 5: the twenty sixth of January, five simple things you can
Speaker 5: do to be in Ally You know, we do basically
Speaker 5: do this sort of every month, and there's a massive
Speaker 5: appetite for it. So probably even from my own story
Speaker 5: in terms of walking out talk my ancestors were actually
Speaker 5: one of my ancestors was on the first fleet and
Speaker 5: actually his offspring came and invaded the area that I'm
Speaker 5: now returned to and consider home as well. But I
Speaker 5: just remember as a kid wandering through the bush in
Speaker 5: Sydney actually just having a real craving for an Aboriginal friend.
Speaker 5: And so that's where my journey began. And I was
Speaker 5: always probably been a little bit different. I used to
Speaker 5: have an awareness of the old people or the spirits
Speaker 5: and talk to them in the bush, but I just
Speaker 5: I thought I was so conscious that I didn't have
Speaker 5: an Aboriginal friend. And then I came down the coast
Speaker 5: and went to a school and I got so excited
Speaker 5: when they said we were going to be singing a
Speaker 5: song about Aboriginal children. And it turned out to be
Speaker 5: the song as it was called five Little pick in His,
Speaker 5: which is actually is actually a North American song and
Speaker 5: was a racial pickaninny at that time was a racial slur.
Speaker 5: So I call it Terrannalius, which is land belonging to nobody,
Speaker 5: which you know, Australia was incorrectly declared as I call
Speaker 5: it Terranalius of my schooling, and so that desire to
Speaker 5: connect with an Aboriginal person went with me the whole way,
Speaker 5: and I probably finally did get my first Aboriginal friend
Speaker 5: in my early t is. But we still get a
Speaker 5: lot of people coming to us with this burning desire
Speaker 5: as well, but being really frightened and scared of saying
Speaker 5: that doing the wrong thing. So we need allies because
Speaker 5: there's a massive gap in Australia. You know, there's the
Speaker 5: Closing the Gap program. Aboriginal people still live up to
Speaker 5: ten years shorter lives, poorer health, poorer economic outcomes, you know,
Speaker 5: double the suicide rate, the incarceration rates. But then on
Speaker 5: another side, and Anti Manya might want to talk more
Speaker 5: about this, there's so much we have to learn from
Speaker 5: indigenous wisdom and embracing Aboriginal people and culture, and we
Speaker 5: can't move forward as a nation until we do that.
Speaker 5: And Anti Manya, like Anti Manya, has written a book
Speaker 5: about Aboriginal spirituality.
Speaker 2: Auntie Manya, Yeah, I wrote it on Aboriginal dream time,
Speaker 2: because that's one of the most popular questions we get
Speaker 2: asked all the time is what's dream time? Can you
Speaker 2: explain what dream time is? And so I wrote a
Speaker 2: book explaining our spirituality that's available for people to find
Speaker 2: out more. And people are saying things like, wow, that's
Speaker 2: a really easy explanation. I really get it, and they
Speaker 2: love the way that I wrote in a very simple
Speaker 2: manner for the wider Australian audience, so that it's about
Speaker 2: getting this kind of information and knowledge out to people
Speaker 2: and not having it as this mysterious thing that you
Speaker 2: don't understand at all, but that most people can relate to.
Speaker 2: And of course I'm also interested in comparative religions if
Speaker 2: you like, and so I wrote it from that perspective
Speaker 2: as well. Looking at basic religious concepts that are understood
Speaker 2: in other cultures so that people could understand average on
Speaker 2: dream time.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, one of my earliest memories is going
Speaker 1: to a museum actually, and there was an exhibit on
Speaker 1: dream time and there were all of these beautiful, beautiful
Speaker 1: artworks that spanned the length of the room, and I
Speaker 1: remember being so enamored by those storyes and the way
Speaker 1: that storytelling is such an intrinsic part of your culture.
Speaker 1: I can totally understand why people are fascinated because it
Speaker 1: really captured me as a child, and it's something that
Speaker 1: as an adult I still find so interesting and so
Speaker 1: engaging the name of your book and where can people
Speaker 1: get it? Because I think that a lot of people
Speaker 1: listening will also share that interest.
Speaker 2: Well, the book on dream Time is called Journey into
Speaker 2: dream Time, and it's available through pretty much everywhere.
Speaker 5: We've got in all the formats as well, Kindle and
Speaker 5: audible and audible.
Speaker 3: You're everywhere.
Speaker 4: We'll make sure it's in the show notes so people
Speaker 4: can click straight through to purchase it. Because I feel
Speaker 4: like I want to read that. I feel like it's
Speaker 4: just such a special I feel like you're opening your
Speaker 4: community to share with us, which is a privilege to
Speaker 4: be able to learn from you and share it with you, because,
Speaker 4: as Jess was saying before, like education is burden to
Speaker 4: educate us as people who aren't in your community, like
Speaker 4: you don't owe us that and it's so special that
Speaker 4: you extend that opportunity for us to learn. And I
Speaker 4: guess that's where your business evolved communities has come from.
Speaker 4: And I would love to pivot into talking a little
Speaker 4: bit about the savvy business women we are talking to today,
Speaker 4: because you've not only created a business, but of thriving
Speaker 4: business like you work with some of Australia's biggest organizations.
Speaker 4: Can you talk me through how you came to start
Speaker 4: a business and knew that it was a business, not
Speaker 4: just a hobby on the side or not something you
Speaker 4: were just interested in pursuing.
Speaker 5: Well, that's a great question, I guess confession time now
Speaker 5: it was a hobby on the side for a long time.
Speaker 3: So I actually I was very lucky.
Speaker 5: I was managing an Aboriginal section and World Heritage section
Speaker 5: of National Parks for a long time, and I was
Speaker 5: so lucky talking about amazing women. I was so lucky
Speaker 5: to job share that role with it an incredible woman
Speaker 5: and do that time. And for a long time I
Speaker 5: had the business as a part time but it's something
Speaker 5: really important to share that, you know, if you have
Speaker 5: a dream, you don't necessarily always have to go in
Speaker 5: boots and all.
Speaker 3: You can test the waters a bit.
Speaker 5: And you know, because I had a financial obligations that
Speaker 5: had a daughter, and so I was able to keep
Speaker 5: some of that financial stability, I guess. And then when
Speaker 5: we joined forces, when Auntie Manya came on board, and
Speaker 5: so that was twenty fourteen, I thought, right, I'm not
Speaker 5: going to be able to take this any further as
Speaker 5: a hobby.
Speaker 3: You know, this is the time to commit and Boots
Speaker 3: and All.
Speaker 5: And so we did go book Boots and All full
Speaker 5: time and it's been fabulous doing that with Anti Manya.
Speaker 5: I think it would be much harder doing alone. And
Speaker 5: obviously I couldn't do what we're doing without Auntie Manyu's yes,
Speaker 5: but also.
Speaker 2: We do it with a team. So we ensured that
Speaker 2: we've got a good business coach, that we've got good
Speaker 2: account that we've got people who knew about the media
Speaker 2: and people who knew about marketing. All of those things
Speaker 2: that we've learned about along the way, people who know
Speaker 2: about information technology. So building this team to support us
Speaker 2: as we went and growing absolutely.
Speaker 5: So we've invested a lot in our own education and
Speaker 5: business education and marketing and that's so we've gone through
Speaker 5: different business coaching programs and our current business coach we've
Speaker 5: been working with a few years now and he's developed
Speaker 5: his team and so now our team is working with
Speaker 5: his team, So we have different coaches for different things.
Speaker 5: So I think that's been critical for me and it
Speaker 5: might be different for Anti Manya. This I always say,
Speaker 5: there's one quote that Marian Radmaker is her name, and
Speaker 5: that for me encapsulates the whole business journey. And it's
Speaker 5: courage is not the line that raws. It's the little quiet,
Speaker 5: voicy each morning that gets up and says, I'll try again.
Speaker 1: I love that quote. You shared that with us last
Speaker 1: time we chatted, and it really stuck with me. I
Speaker 1: think because there are a lot of small business owners
Speaker 1: in our community. It's something that our community is super
Speaker 1: super passionate about, and we are all about the side hustle,
Speaker 1: you know, and carving and following your path. As you
Speaker 1: were saying, have you found as women specifically starting your
Speaker 1: own business, particularly because you said it's been a long
Speaker 1: slog for you and it hasn't always been a place
Speaker 1: that's been super accepting of women as heads of businesses
Speaker 1: or change makers. And have you faced any challenges you
Speaker 1: think because of that, particularly in the early days when
Speaker 1: you maybe didn't have the profile that you have now.
Speaker 3: For me, I've it doesn't matter what space I've been in.
Speaker 5: I've I haven't realized until hindsight when someone says later,
Speaker 5: do you you did that really differently?
Speaker 3: Or you whatever trailblaze there or something.
Speaker 5: But I guess that's been my whole approach to everything
Speaker 5: that I do, is doing things quite differently but not
Speaker 5: realizing it's different. But I guess doing whatever it takes to,
Speaker 5: you know, have that vision, get to where you want
Speaker 5: to get to. But the main thing for me has
Speaker 5: been bringing other people along with me, how about you,
Speaker 5: Auntie Monieux.
Speaker 2: No, definitely about bringing along other people, learning from everyone else,
Speaker 2: that stuff about everybody has something to teach you and
Speaker 2: being open to that and trying things in a new way.
Speaker 2: That's been a great challenge for us. And moving with
Speaker 2: the times and finding too that we're ahead of the times.
Speaker 2: As well. You've color you know, with your nomad meetings
Speaker 2: in the early days before there was all of this
Speaker 2: meeting online or how that's now taken off, But you
Speaker 2: have that expertise that you brought in beforehand, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: just about being open to change. But certainly the challenges
Speaker 2: are there all the time, but you just keep plugging
Speaker 2: away at a bit bud bit and you eventually do
Speaker 2: get there. And if you believe in what your work
Speaker 2: is all about, if you believe fully wholeheartedly, it just
Speaker 2: happens because you make it happen.
Speaker 5: And it is persistence, isn't it. And we definitely have
Speaker 5: had challenges and find environments and people that did believe
Speaker 5: in us.
Speaker 4: How do you do that?
Speaker 3: Though?
Speaker 4: Like that sounds so simple when you put it that way,
Speaker 4: it sounds so eloquent and beautiful, but we all know
Speaker 4: that that journey is not nearly as smooth as you've
Speaker 4: just made it sound. Like, how do you see your value?
Speaker 5: I think it's just keep going back to the values
Speaker 5: and that passion, the self care.
Speaker 2: And valuing people and not being afraid to ask for
Speaker 2: help when you do need help, because people do want
Speaker 2: to help when they's jump in and they people have
Speaker 2: got great ideas and it's like finding your tribe, really,
Speaker 2: and that's what we did. We found our tribe and
Speaker 2: some of that tribe of the members from that time,
Speaker 2: just from that time, and so we had all gone
Speaker 2: through this together. It was like, well, how do we
Speaker 2: all now support each other and relying on each other,
Speaker 2: supporting each other, growing all the way, and not competing
Speaker 2: against each other as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, collaborations a lot. So we collaborate a lot with
Speaker 5: other businesses. But I'm like, thinking of all the women
Speaker 5: that you have in your network starting businesses and so forth.
Speaker 5: It is you know, you get a feeling too of
Speaker 5: people that you'll resonate with and connect with and contrast.
Speaker 5: And I think it's really trusting your gut around that
Speaker 5: as well. But we've had lots of difficult experiences that
Speaker 5: we've learned from it.
Speaker 2: It's certainly not but it's also standing up for yourself
Speaker 2: too and not allowing yourself to be used and abused
Speaker 2: or manipulated. You know. I'm thinking in particular, a lot
Speaker 2: of our work involves copyright, our intellectual copyright and having
Speaker 2: to stand on our two feet firmly and say no,
Speaker 2: you can't use and this is why, because we've had
Speaker 2: one large government organization who practically wanted to steal our.
Speaker 3: Well they did.
Speaker 5: They send out our program and ask for other people
Speaker 5: to tender on delivering it.
Speaker 4: No the audacity that is heartbreaking, but it is so
Speaker 4: inspiring to see that, as two women in business, you
Speaker 4: are still able to see the value you bring to
Speaker 4: the table when others aren't necessarily able to see that
Speaker 4: as clearly as you can. I know that a lot
Speaker 4: of people listening are going to be really inspired by that,
Speaker 4: and I do have a fair few questions for you,
Speaker 4: especially about you know, what hurdles we still face as
Speaker 4: a nation when it comes to reconciliation and how the
Speaker 4: She's on the Money community can be a really good ally.
Speaker 4: Right after this very quick break.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to this special episode of She's on the Money.
Speaker 1: We are celebrating International Women's Week, and Vidria and I
Speaker 1: are joined by Auntie Munya Andrews and Carla Rodgers from
Speaker 1: Evolved Communities, which is an organization that works to really
Speaker 1: power and educate in the space of cultural awareness. And
Speaker 1: we've been having a really great discussion around this and reconciliation.
Speaker 1: While we have come a long way. I think we
Speaker 1: can all definitely acknowledge that there are many many ways
Speaker 1: to go. Still, how do you feel about the changes
Speaker 1: that you've seen and what can we do to lift
Speaker 1: those voices up and really make a difference in that space,
Speaker 1: whether it's as an ally or as a member of
Speaker 1: the community.
Speaker 2: Well, I feel fantastic about some of the changes that
Speaker 2: we've seen and experienced along the way, because, as I say,
Speaker 2: that gives me hope for the future. But we've noticed
Speaker 2: a real change, haven't we, Carlo, especially in the last
Speaker 2: five ten years, would you say, a real shift around
Speaker 2: the whole discussion around reconciliation and particularly focused on the
Speaker 2: Australia Day. Just how even this year it was so
Speaker 2: different from last year, the sorts of changes that we've seen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, Only Mona, I say, the biggest change
Speaker 5: I've actually seen is in the last year. Thinking for example,
Speaker 5: last year in my local community, I was pretty devastated
Speaker 5: to see they on the twenty sixth January they did
Speaker 5: a flyover and they had the Australian flag and then
Speaker 5: the discourse that was on the Facebook community page about
Speaker 5: you know, wasn't it great to see that in our
Speaker 5: proud people, and I thought I felt really sad. And
Speaker 5: then this year, or partly because I imagine because the
Speaker 5: government now has the copyright to the Aboriginal flag, but
Speaker 5: this year they flew both the Australian and the Aboriginal flag,
Speaker 5: and I noticed, for example, a change in that conversation
Speaker 5: on this Facebook group that people were very positive about it.
Speaker 5: And Auntie Manu in each year we do it like
Speaker 5: a webinar, you know how you can be in our
Speaker 5: life five simple things you can do on in the
Speaker 5: twenty sixth of January, and this year for that one,
Speaker 5: we had about four hundred people joining to.
Speaker 1: So people are hungry for change's you can see it.
Speaker 1: It's totally shifting, and I think what you're doing is
Speaker 1: a massive part of that, which the power of social
Speaker 1: media I think is a big thing there, right, Yeah, And.
Speaker 4: It's a privilege to be educated as well. Like I
Speaker 4: grew up, I am, you know, very Caucasian, and I
Speaker 4: grew up surrounded by other white people, so growing up
Speaker 4: I had no idea about the history of the twenty
Speaker 4: sixth of January and the education I received at school.
Speaker 4: You hit the nail on the head earlier, Carla. You
Speaker 4: just feel a little bit like you didn't get what
Speaker 4: you deserved when it came to an education in this space,
Speaker 4: and it wasn't placed to me in the way that
Speaker 4: it actually happened, like it was an invasion. It wasn't
Speaker 4: you know, this liberation that I had been you know,
Speaker 4: told it was. And I think that as I've been
Speaker 4: growing and learning and changing, like historically, yes, I did
Speaker 4: celebrate it because I had no other education. I didn't
Speaker 4: know any better, and now I do. I'm embarrassed to
Speaker 4: think that I didn't have that education and that we
Speaker 4: weren't afforded the privilege of that knowledge earlier on. So
Speaker 4: hopefully as times changed, and you said over the last year,
Speaker 4: you felt that change has been very imminent, and I
Speaker 4: hope it's been a lot more aggressive, and next year
Speaker 4: I hope that when we have a conversation we catch up.
Speaker 4: You're saying, yeah, it's been even even bigger, like the
Speaker 4: changes have been even more embraced. But are you finding
Speaker 4: that primary schools and younger children are starting to embrace
Speaker 4: this so this becomes ingrained in us from the beginning.
Speaker 3: Definitely, people are always shocked to learn that.
Speaker 5: In New South Wales, for example, it was only twenty
Speaker 5: eighteen that an ancient Australia unit was introduced to high schools.
Speaker 5: But I think primary schools are probably even more progressive
Speaker 5: and anti Mayne and I just went and spoke to
Speaker 5: a preschool the other week, and so it is changing.
Speaker 5: It is happening, and I think and we have a
Speaker 5: lot of parents tell us that they've learned so much
Speaker 5: from their children from school, and schools are incorporating acknowledgement
Speaker 5: of countries and yarning circles. I think for us now
Speaker 5: that there's still while we're being excited about the change
Speaker 5: that's happening and some momentum, there is a long way
Speaker 5: to go. And I think it's all about personal responsibility
Speaker 5: for learning.
Speaker 3: And that's so easy.
Speaker 5: You don't need to you don't need to come to
Speaker 5: one of our programs or anything like that. You just
Speaker 5: got to turn the TV on. You've got to pick
Speaker 5: up a book. You know, it's so accessible and engaging.
Speaker 5: The content that's out there, and if you haven't seen,
Speaker 5: everyone should see rabbit Proof Fence for example, about the
Speaker 5: Stolen generation and the impact of the stolen generation. Watch
Speaker 5: Black Comedy is just to understand the differences in humor.
Speaker 5: Go to concerts, pick up Uncle Archi Roach's autobiography where
Speaker 5: he actually narrates his story himself and he's from the
Speaker 5: Stolen generation. There's just so many things that we can
Speaker 5: do to self educate. And I think one of the
Speaker 5: biggest changes that I'd like to see and seeing beginning
Speaker 5: to see it increasingly more and more around Aboriginal languages.
Speaker 5: You know, why aren't Aboriginal languages being taught in schools?
Speaker 5: Just through our allies, we noticed that when they give
Speaker 5: an acknowledgment of country, a lot of them are including
Speaker 5: Aboriginal language in that and it's just fantastic to see
Speaker 5: because that's the next step I think, yeah, and we
Speaker 5: need to take with this awareness, I'm hoping that we're
Speaker 5: then also able to have safe spaces for the harder conversations.
Speaker 5: And you know, an example of a book it's in
Speaker 5: the not in the Australian context, but that is a
Speaker 5: harder conversation. But I found so valuable to read was
Speaker 5: around white fragility and Robin DiAngelo's her name. And there's
Speaker 5: a recent book around nice Racist or something like that.
Speaker 5: But we need the spaces that me as a white,
Speaker 5: as a non indigenous person, I can have that conversation
Speaker 5: and acknowledge how I guess our society is intrinsically just
Speaker 5: set up that there is this big power differential that
Speaker 5: I benefit from and that my privilege has a big
Speaker 5: role to play. So the biggest thing I can do
Speaker 5: is one of the biggest things I can do is
Speaker 5: now I is understand and be more aware of the privileges,
Speaker 5: the benefits, the opportunities I have that another person may
Speaker 5: have just because of the color of their skin.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Incredible, And we'll have a blog post up actually with
Speaker 1: a rap of all of those really great resources that
Speaker 1: you just mentioned, along with some of our other personal favorites,
Speaker 1: because I think that's a great place for people to start.
Speaker 4: Anti manyatt Krla. I am in awe of what you've
Speaker 4: created with Evolve Communities.
Speaker 3: But what's next?
Speaker 4: What is Evolve community is doing next?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, well, Auntie Manya, when we're talking about books,
Speaker 5: we have the book Practical Reconciliation, which you mentioned, and
Speaker 5: then Auntie Maunya has so.
Speaker 2: I've written a new book on Aboriginal languages that's going
Speaker 2: to be published by Mugabler Books next year, and it's
Speaker 2: called Can You Speak Google? Burrah a lot of people
Speaker 2: don't realize they're not pronouncing the name properly because we
Speaker 2: don't have that K or C sounds in our languages.
Speaker 2: It's pronounced closer to a G. So Google Burro is
Speaker 2: a correct pronunciation. And so I was saying to Carla,
Speaker 2: I really want to get an Aboriginal language program going
Speaker 2: through evolved communities where people can learn to speak an
Speaker 2: indigenous language. So that's one of the places we're wanting
Speaker 2: to expand on.
Speaker 5: And we've written the children's version of Practical Reconciliation that
Speaker 5: it's the Adventures of Benji and Biscuit. Biscuit's a dog, yeah,
Speaker 5: And so we actually we're actually looking for a publisher
Speaker 5: for that at the moment. And we have a big dream,
Speaker 5: I guess of a not a university, but like a
Speaker 5: central harbor, dreamtime harbor of information and for allies. And
Speaker 5: the biggest step for us now is growing our team
Speaker 5: so that we have different accreditation programs. You can become
Speaker 5: an ally accredited ally and then you can become an
Speaker 5: assistant to run our programs, and then you could become
Speaker 5: a facilitator of our programs. So Aunti Manya and I
Speaker 5: particularly Auntie Manya had retired before COVID from delivery of
Speaker 5: our programs and then COVID hit and we're back in the.
Speaker 3: Hot seat for a couple of years.
Speaker 5: But we would our model of delivery for leading our
Speaker 5: programs is also an ally model, so we have an
Speaker 5: Indigenous and a non indigenous person team posting our programs
Speaker 5: and delivering our programs both. We're hoping both online and
Speaker 5: in person. So that's the big next step part of
Speaker 5: our vision is to have this team across Australia and
Speaker 5: for their Aboriginal people so they don't have to leave
Speaker 5: country to deliver our programs.
Speaker 3: So we're really excited about that. That is super exciting.
Speaker 4: I literally can't wait to follow that journey in watch
Speaker 4: where you go because I feel like you are absolutely
Speaker 4: flourishing and you're in your peak and everything is it's
Speaker 4: looking really beautiful from here. Last question before we wrap up,
Speaker 4: because I am very aware that I have taken a
Speaker 4: fair bit of your time, which I.
Speaker 3: Am very grateful for.
Speaker 4: Carla anti Mania, how are you celebrating International Women's Day?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we're celebrating an International Women's Day by attending
Speaker 2: one of the events held in Cayama and I'm one
Speaker 2: of the speakers that will be speaking at International Women's Day.
Speaker 2: Carl is coming along as well.
Speaker 5: And together we're running a workshop and both the speech
Speaker 5: and the workshop are on the breaking the bias as
Speaker 5: an ally. And this is I've come back to the
Speaker 5: hometown Cimo I grew up and went to high school,
Speaker 5: and so I've been involved in a group of amazing
Speaker 5: women planning for this event. So we're super excited about
Speaker 5: about the event and agenda. So usually we do speak
Speaker 5: at something on International Women's Day, but it's a lovely
Speaker 5: full circle for me coming back to the hometown and
Speaker 5: doing something.
Speaker 3: That's so special.
Speaker 1: And if anyone does want to check out Evolve Communities,
Speaker 1: all the incredible work that you guys are doing, the resources,
Speaker 1: the courses, we cannot recommend them highly enough. We're huge,
Speaker 1: huge fans in this office and it's www. Dot evolved,
Speaker 1: dot com, dot au. They can find you on socials
Speaker 1: as well, I believe yes.
Speaker 3: And one of the next things is also on what's
Speaker 3: it called the TikTok. You're on tik talk. We're about to.
Speaker 2: Just going there.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that is gorgeous.
Speaker 2: I can't wait.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go follow you in advance so that
Speaker 4: I get to see it first. Oh my gosh, Well,
Speaker 4: thank you both for joining us.
Speaker 3: It has been an.
Speaker 4: Absolute privilege to share you both with our community, and
Speaker 4: we know that this won't be the last interaction we
Speaker 4: have with you.
Speaker 5: Oh think, thank you Victoria and Jess. And I also
Speaker 5: want to think, I so wish this program was around.
Speaker 3: And I'm you know, I'm not a millennial.
Speaker 5: I'm an excerpt, but I'm definitely learning from your program.
Speaker 5: And financial literacy is just such an important thing, isn't it?
Speaker 5: Absolutely and something we also try to teach and share
Speaker 5: in with Aboriginal communities. We ask a question when we
Speaker 5: do the Privilege Walk and we're looking at the role
Speaker 5: of privilege, we asked the question, if you had someone
Speaker 5: teach you how to get a bank account, how to
Speaker 5: you know?
Speaker 3: Because that actually is a privilege I.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent, And it's something that we so easily overlook,
Speaker 4: like we might think it's small, but it's absolutely not.
Speaker 4: That the foundational skills that so many people miss out on.
Speaker 4: And as always, just before we head off, we'd like
Speaker 4: to acknowledge and pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and torrest
Speaker 4: Right Islander People's. They're the traditional cast Ordians of the lands,
Speaker 4: the waterways and the skies all across Australia. We thank
Speaker 4: you for sharing and for caring for the land on
Speaker 4: which we are able to learn. We pay our respects
Speaker 4: to elders past and present, and we share our friendship
Speaker 4: and our kindness.
Speaker 1: And we promise. Victoria Divine is an authorized representative of
Speaker 1: Infocused Securities Australia Proprietary Limited a b N four seven
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