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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcotin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Just the heads up. This episode deals with issues surrounding

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Speaker 2: mental health. If you need someone to talk to, you

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Speaker 2: can give Lifeline a call on thirteen eleven fourteen.

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Speaker 3: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Friday,

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Speaker 3: the thirty first of March. I'm Sam, I'm Zara. About

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Speaker 3: one in twenty Australians are believed to have ADHD, but

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Speaker 3: getting the diagnosis isn't always easy.

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Speaker 4: Why did it take so long for me? Because I'm

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Speaker 4: a female.

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Speaker 5: The first thing that they'll always tell me is you

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Speaker 5: don't actually have ADHD. You've just been told you have

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Speaker 5: ADHD by TikTok.

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Speaker 3: In today's Deep Dive, we're going to hear just how

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Speaker 3: hard it can be and about the Senate Inquiry setting

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Speaker 3: out to find out what's gone wrong. But first, Sarah,

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Speaker 3: what is making headlines this morning.

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Speaker 2: The legislation that will trigger this year's referendum on an

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Speaker 2: Indigenous voice to Parliament was introduced in the House of

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Speaker 2: Reps yesterday. The bill contains the Constitutional Amendment allowing the

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Speaker 2: voice to be established, and comes after the wording of

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Speaker 2: the question was unveiled last week. Indigenous Australians Minister Linda

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Speaker 2: Burney called the day an inspiring moment.

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Speaker 3: Borunduri elder Auntie Joy Murphy performed a welcome to country

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Speaker 3: at a business lunch attended by former US President Barack

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Speaker 3: Obama that was after being dropped from Obama's speaking event

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Speaker 3: on Wednesday night. Event organizers had said Auntie Joy was

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Speaker 3: removed from the event due to what they described as

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Speaker 3: last minute changes that couldn't be accommodated, with the organizers

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Speaker 3: later apologizing to Auntie Joy.

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Speaker 2: A class action against health insurance provider Medibank over its

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Speaker 2: data breach last year has now been filed in the

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Speaker 2: Victorian Supreme Court. The court documents were filed by the

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Speaker 2: plaintiffs on Tuesday, who alleged that Medibank was aware of

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Speaker 2: the deficiencies in its cybersecurity systems before the breach, but

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Speaker 2: failed to disclose this to investors on the Australian Securities Exchange.

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Speaker 2: The breach was committed by Russian hackers last year, who

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Speaker 2: released some of that stolen data online.

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Speaker 3: And today's good news, four cheetah cubs were born in

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Speaker 3: India this week, marking the first time in seventy years

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Speaker 3: that cheaters have been born in the country. Cheetahs became

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Speaker 3: extinct in India during the fifties, but a long term

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Speaker 3: push to reintroduce them came to fruition after cheatas from

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Speaker 3: the Mibia were brought to India last year. This week,

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Speaker 3: the Federal Senate launched an inquiry into how ADHD is

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Speaker 3: being managed in Australia. The inquiry will investigate the barriers

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Speaker 3: people are facing in receiving an ADHD diagnosis and support,

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Speaker 3: and we know that this is something alot of people

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Speaker 3: in the TDA community have struggled with. We got this

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Speaker 3: message from someone who wants to stay anonymous.

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Speaker 5: I was recently diagnosed with ADHD at the end of

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Speaker 5: last year and I'm twenty one now. I've only just

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Speaker 5: been diagnosed despite being told for years by family and

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Speaker 5: friends and teachers that I don't have it. That's just

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Speaker 5: my personality, and I'm just I'm just a procrastinator and lazy,

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Speaker 5: and that's just who I am, and you know, a

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Speaker 5: teenage girl, it was never really considered by any of

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Speaker 5: the people in my life that I could have it.

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Speaker 5: And also at the same time, during the end of

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Speaker 5: high school, and I was really struggling with focus and

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Speaker 5: concentration and just getting daily tasks done. I was also

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Speaker 5: quite depressed at the time, and so people would say

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Speaker 5: to me, you can't have ADHD because you're not hyperactive.

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Speaker 5: And it wasn't until the end of last year when

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Speaker 5: I finally sought out a psychologist by myself as an

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Speaker 5: adult and had a test that I got formally diagnosed.

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Speaker 5: And even now I'm a week onto medication, it's taken

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Speaker 5: this long, and I can notice a massive change in

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Speaker 5: my life already despite being on the lowest dose and

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Speaker 5: only for a week. But even when I tell people,

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Speaker 5: the first thing that they'll always tell me is you

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Speaker 5: don't actually have ADHD. You've just been told you have

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Speaker 5: ADHD by TikTok, or you're just falling to the trend

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Speaker 5: of being quirky with ADHD. And it kind of feels

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Speaker 5: it's for the last few years. It's kind of felt

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Speaker 5: like quite a bit of imposter syndrome and almost as

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Speaker 5: if I'm gas lighting myself.

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Speaker 3: Here's another one we got from Kali.

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Speaker 4: After seven years of therapy and seeing numerous different psychologists, psychiatrists,

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Speaker 4: and specialists, it was only last week I was finally

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Speaker 4: diagnosed with ADHD. I'm twenty four. This is because my

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Speaker 4: psychologist has been diligent with noting down patterns of behavior,

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Speaker 4: and the psychiatrist actually listened to me and did not

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Speaker 4: think that they know what's best. Why did it take

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Speaker 4: so long for me? Because I'm a female, I didn't

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Speaker 4: act up in the classroom, and I was raised to

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Speaker 4: respect others. One psychiatrist stated that because my school reports

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Speaker 4: didn't indicate I was disruptive, I was required to undertake

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Speaker 4: a neurocognitive assessment, which would cost you fifteen hundred dollars.

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Speaker 4: Mind you, I already paid five hundred dollars for the

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Speaker 4: initial appointment with the psychiatrist. The amount of money I've

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Speaker 4: spent on mental health is in the tens of thousands.

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to break a generational cycle of addiction and

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Speaker 4: mental health struggles in a biased, broken healthcare system.

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Speaker 3: So some of the things we've heard in these voice messages,

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Speaker 3: things like the difficulty of getting a diagnosis, the cost

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Speaker 3: of navigating the medical system, the impact of gender bias.

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Speaker 3: These are all things the Senate Inquiry is setting out

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Speaker 3: to investigate. But I wanted to know a little bit

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Speaker 3: more about how these things play out from a healthcare

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Speaker 3: provider's perspective. So I spoke to doctor Tamorra and May.

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Speaker 3: She's a psychologist and research associate at Monash University who

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Speaker 3: actually specializes in managing ADHD. Tomorrow, thanks so much for

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Speaker 3: joining us on the podcast.

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Speaker 6: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to get started by asking you what ADHD

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Speaker 3: actually is.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, good question. So ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity

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Speaker 6: disorder and it's what we would call a neurodevelopmental condition.

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Speaker 6: So it means the brain develops differently as a person

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Speaker 6: ages through childhood and adolescence.

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Speaker 3: And how do you see it impacting people.

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Speaker 6: There's so many impacts sam on people's lives. So it

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Speaker 6: can affect how we learn and take in information. It

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Speaker 6: can affect therefore, how we do academically at school. It

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Speaker 6: affects us at work in terms of the various difficulties

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Speaker 6: we might have with completing work, procrastination, being late, forgetfulness, etc.

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Speaker 6: It can impact on our social relationships. It really has

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Speaker 6: these very broad impacts on our lives.

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Speaker 3: Okay, And we've heard a lot from our audience about

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Speaker 3: how hard it can be to actually get an ADHD diagnosis.

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Speaker 3: I myself have been on a bit of a journey

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Speaker 3: with getting a diagnosis. What do you think is going wrong?

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Speaker 6: I think what's going wrong is that there's not enough

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Speaker 6: clinicians who can provide diagnostic assessments, and not enough clinicians

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Speaker 6: in the public service able to provide this. So I

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Speaker 6: guess adult ADHD in particular is an area where there's

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Speaker 6: been a lot of demand for diagnostic services and it's

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Speaker 6: a reasonably I guess, new area, even though ADHD has

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Speaker 6: been always around, but it's only more recently that we

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Speaker 6: realize that for most people, ADHD persist into adulthood. And

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Speaker 6: so as the words got out about ADHD, that's resulted

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Speaker 6: in a lot of adults realizing that they might have

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Speaker 6: ADHD and seeking adult diagnoses. And to do that usually

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Speaker 6: we have to go and see a psychiatrist, and there's

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Speaker 6: very few adult psychiatrists who specialize in ADHD.

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Speaker 3: I was actually having a look at your website before

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Speaker 3: and just to clarify, So you're not a psychiatrist, so

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Speaker 3: you can't prescribe ADHD medication, but you are a psychologist

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Speaker 3: who specializes in supporting people with ADHD. And I noticed

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Speaker 3: on your website that you're fully booked, which is a

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Speaker 3: good sign for you. But I guess, looking more broadly,

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Speaker 3: is the rise in ADHD meaning that the system isn't coping.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, I think the increased awareness, Yeah, the system is

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Speaker 6: not coping. People are having to wait three, six months,

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Speaker 6: twelve months, and it's not always just for ADHD to

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Speaker 6: see pediatrician. For example, you might be waiting twelve months

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Speaker 6: and you might have another concern other than ADHD. In particular,

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Speaker 6: there's not enough public services, so people have to pay

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Speaker 6: out of costs. It's very expensive to get these assessments

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Speaker 6: and to get support.

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Speaker 3: Do you think there's still stigma?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely? And I think this is why there are so

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Speaker 6: few adult psycho hiatrists who specialize in ADHD, because it's

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Speaker 6: I guess one of the most effective treatments for ADHD

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Speaker 6: is stimulant medication, and unfortunately it's still associated with being

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Speaker 6: something that's misused or just use given out like lollies

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Speaker 6: to kids when they're misbehaving, but that's certainly not what

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Speaker 6: the impact of the medication is. It has significant impacts

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Speaker 6: on improving attention and focus and can really help folks.

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Speaker 6: So there's still a lot of stigma about the medication,

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Speaker 6: which means a lot of adult psychiatrists are reluctant to

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Speaker 6: work in that space.

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Speaker 3: And one of the other interesting things that we hear

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Speaker 3: from our audience in particular is how hard it is

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Speaker 3: for women and girls to navigate the system and receive

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Speaker 3: a diagnosis. Is our understanding of ADHD and how it

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Speaker 3: manifests in women and girls catching up to where it

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Speaker 3: needs to be.

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Speaker 6: Yes, I think slowly it's catching up. But in the past,

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Speaker 6: the idea of what ADHD looked like was the hyperactive

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Speaker 6: little boy. It was running around, climbing on themes and

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Speaker 6: you know, getting into trouble, so to speak. And so

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Speaker 6: girls who might be more likely to have more of

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Speaker 6: the inattentive symptoms rather than the hyperactive impulsive symptoms. They're

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Speaker 6: often sitting in the classroom. They might not be focusing

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Speaker 6: and paying attention, but they're not being difficult for the

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Speaker 6: teacher to manage, for example, and so those difficulties of

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Speaker 6: inattention often get missed, and particularly in girls.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about TikTok. We've seen a huge explosion in

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Speaker 3: ADHD visibility on TikTok In your practice, have you seen

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Speaker 3: people come through reflecting on lessons they've learned from TikTok

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Speaker 3: or experiences that they've resonated with.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, and I think there's a lot of great stuff there,

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Speaker 6: and there's also some stuff that isn't quite accurate, so

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Speaker 6: to speak. But certainly I've had clients who have seen

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Speaker 6: tiktoks and some things have clicked and that they've sort

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Speaker 6: of understood what might be going on for them. But

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Speaker 6: there's also, you know, misinformation, So it's really important to

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Speaker 6: make sure that we're accessing information from a reliable source.

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Speaker 3: What are you seeing as some of those main misinformation

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Speaker 3: parts of TikTok?

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Speaker 6: I think often there will be discussion about symptoms that

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Speaker 6: aren't necessarily going to be directly related to ADHD. So

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Speaker 6: there are a lot of secondary consequences of having ADHD,

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Speaker 6: but there's also a lot of secondary consequences of having

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Speaker 6: other conditions which might look a bit like ADHD. So yeah,

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Speaker 6: for some folks, perhaps, you know, some of those difficulties

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Speaker 6: might be better explained by other things going on for them.

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Speaker 3: So right now, ADHD doesn't appear on the list of

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Speaker 3: disabilities supported by d NDIS. And what that means in

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Speaker 3: practice is that even if you receive a diagnosis, you

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Speaker 3: don't automatically qualify to receive financial support to manage it

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Speaker 3: through that program. In your opinion, should that change?

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Speaker 6: They should be covering some costs of supporting people with

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Speaker 6: ADHD where they need it to engage in life like

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Speaker 6: everyone else. For someone with ADHD, there can be significant

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Speaker 6: impacts on their functioning in many areas of life. And

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Speaker 6: if they had any other condition but the same impacts

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Speaker 6: on their fat functioning, they would qualify for NDIS.

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Speaker 3: And this week we heard that a Senate inquiry is

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Speaker 3: going to be looking into some of the issues we've

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Speaker 3: discussed today, things like access to support diagnosis and that

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Speaker 3: NDIS point. Do you think that the Senate inquiry is

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Speaker 3: going to be a helpful step forward.

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Speaker 6: I'm super excited about the Senate inquiry and I think

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Speaker 6: it's a fantastic step forward and it's finally bringing more

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Speaker 6: of a spotlight to ADHD. Last year we released the

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Speaker 6: ADHD Australian Guidelines and I think that is a big

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Speaker 6: step in terms of making sure that people with ADHD

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Speaker 6: get uniform and evidence based care, and so the Senate

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Speaker 6: inquiry will hopefully be another step towards getting appropriate funding

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Speaker 6: for research, for implementing the guidelines and for supporting people

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Speaker 6: through these mechanisms such as the NDIS.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Tomairo May thank you so much for your time.

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Speaker 6: Thanks sam My Pleasure.

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to quickly shout out everyone who's sent

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Speaker 3: in the message yesterday on the Daily Os on Instagram

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Speaker 3: to share their ADHD journey. Even if we didn't get

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Speaker 3: to your message today on the podcast, we deeply appreciate

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Speaker 3: the insights that you presented to us and it really

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Speaker 3: gave us more insight into a really complex issue.

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Speaker 2: If you need someone to talk to, you can give

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Speaker 2: Lifeline a call on thirteen eleven fourteen.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS. Have a

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Speaker 3: beautiful weekend.