WEBVTT - AUSTRALIAN SURVIVOR EXIT INTERVIEWS: Week 3 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:01.760 It's in the news today, but it was actually on 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:04.760 TV Reload the podcast last week that line Welcome TV 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.880 Reload listeners. Mineame is Benjamin Norris, and this is your 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:10.480 podcast to get all the inside goss or the popular 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.040 TV shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably, 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.160 our TV sets are a major part of our home 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:18.959 entertainment and very little is known about how our favorite 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.560 shows get made. Each episode, I find guests that want 0:00:21.600 --> 0:00:23.960 to dive just that little bit deeper into the shows 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.479 they're currently making so that you can hear all the 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:29.360 exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest names in 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.360 Australian television. I want to thank you for downloading or 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.400 subscribing to this podcast. I love hearing your feedback, so 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:37.839 make sure you leave a comment on your chosen podcast 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.599 platform and I will make sure you feel as included 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:42.720 in the production of this show as I possibly can. 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.800 On today's podcast, I have Fraser, who was booted from 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.440 Australian Survivor this week after a very hectic tribal council. 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.320 Fraser was totally minding his p's and q's when somehow 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.880 he got caught on the crossfire of George versus Simon, 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.639 which saw Fraser blindsided and sent home. This week has 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:03.360 been a massive week on Australian Survivor. First JLP lost 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.000 his mind building height for this week's episodes, and then 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:08.360 the media started signing off on it as well. And 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.959 now fans have been saying it was the best tribal 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.120 council ever seen in Survivor history, and I kind of 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:16.640 tend to agree with them. So this episode's going to 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:19.200 be kind of fun because Fraser is willing to unpack 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.080 what went down. I will find out if he thinks 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:24.920 George was right to send him home instead of Jordie. 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:28.119 Does he think that Simon should have used his idol 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:30.920 for Stevie? Will we find out if he think it 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.680 was fair that there was that secret challenge for immunity. 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:36.600 Whilst we're going to get plenty of exclusives from behind 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:38.920 the scenes of the third week of Australian Survivor, which 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.040 you can catch up on now on Tenplay. Anyway, let's 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:45.160 bring Fraser into the podcast and I really hope Hi, mate, 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:48.120 thanks for popping in and chatting about Australian Survivor. 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:50.200 Happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:51.880 I don't know why I keep laughing. I think it's 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:56.040 because my nerves and my whole body. You haven't recovered 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:57.560 yet from that tribal council. 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.280 You think that you haven't recovered. No, it's you know what, 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.560 it was such an epic moment. Crazy to watch it unfold. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:06.920 I think I kind of suppressed how I felt at 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:10.280 the time. But you know, I consider it like therapy 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:11.120 watching it back. 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:13.040 I think they're the only person in the world that's 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:15.359 going to say that that was like therapy. I think 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:19.240 I need therapy afterwards. But I might be correct in 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:22.040 saying that that was the most intense tribal council ever 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:22.800 seen on the show. 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.160 Brian, You know what, at least in all the survivor 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:28.120 I've seen, it was intense. And I'll tell you what, 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:32.640 being there and going through it even more difficult of 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.640 a situation in real life. 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:35.600 It was. 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.000 It was just nuts and there's no there's no other 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.079 way to describe it other than hectic. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.280 Well, you seem like collateral damage in a shit storm 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.440 set up to make Simon rude the day that he 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.480 ever set his eyes on George. 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:49.880 You know what, look, I think it was there were 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.520 so many sliding door moments, and you can always over 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.359 analyze and think, oh, what if what if I had 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.880 done this differently? What if I had had this conversation 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:00.400 with this person. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:00.840 And done that? 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.560 But you know what, nothing will change if what actually happened. 0:03:04.639 --> 0:03:06.520 I do think I was collateral damage and I think 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.480 I got caught in the cross fire took a bullet. 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.880 But I'm at peace with that. And I think George. 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.639 Made a really clear statement last night on when we 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:20.120 went to tribal council that he has accomplished everything that 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.080 he could have ever wanted to accomplish coming second in 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.239 his previous season, So when he's come around for this 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:30.440 time in Heroes Versus Villain season eight, he just wants 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.520 to make a statement and he's there for chaos, and 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:34.320 I think that was proven last night. 0:03:34.600 --> 0:03:36.880 Well, I think that you are absolutely correct, and I 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.480 also think that there was many sliding door moments as 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.760 to what could have happened in that tribal council. Do 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.640 you think that having a surprise challenge, though, was fair 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.680 to have been brought out at that. 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.080 Moment personally having gone home, No, I don't. I think 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.160 was the most unfair thing that could have happened. But 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.840 you've got to be at peace with That's how the 0:03:56.880 --> 0:04:01.160 game rolls, right. It's so unpredictable, and every moment that 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:05.880 you think it's predictable will completely derail your plans and 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.520 thoughts of what was going to happen next. We knew 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.800 tribeswap was so imminent, we were down to such a 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:15.560 select handful of people and tribe mates left that it 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.119 was all about the long game. We knew that things 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.320 were going to change dramatically, and that's why we went 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.400 into last night's decision with a plan to really shape 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:24.880 things up. 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:26.320 It was about long game. 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.400 And for Simon to win that challenge, that was just, 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:33.359 you know, almost a nail in my coffin that that 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.240 was it and someone else is going home. And I 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:39.640 felt so confident, even though I didn't know at that 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.240 point in time that George definitely had an IDOL, I 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.080 had a really strong inkling that someone as such a 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.640 smart player such as George had a plan. 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.480 What do you think would have happened if Simon hadn't 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.360 won that immunity idol? Though? Do you think the whole 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:55.200 thing would have changed? 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.280 The whole thing would have changed. I feel super confident 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.760 that whilst Simon says that he had some idea that 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:05.320 he was going to be copying votes last night. I 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:09.960 think he honestly only anticipated that to come from George 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:14.719 and potentially the girls. But I felt that he felt 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:17.440 that he was in such a strong position with the 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:21.840 four of us myself, Jeordie, Simon and Steve, that he 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.080 was in the majority and he had the numbers. So 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.719 had everything gone to plan last night, no challenge and 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.680 no win for individual immunity. Even if Simon felt uncertain 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.240 about his position and played what he thought was an 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:35.760 iol at the time, he would have been going home. 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.120 I felt like George would have been smarter to take 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:40.840 out Jordie, you know, seeing as he really screwed him 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:44.240 over and came out and said, you know, look, Simon, 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.680 you know you've been thrown under the bus by your mate. 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:49.360 I mean it was so brutal that I thought, well, 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:51.599 he's going to have to written down Jordie and not you, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:56.240 because you know, it seems to be an unrepairable friendship. 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.200 After being so brutal, did you think it would have 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.080 been smart for him to over to Jordi instead of. 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:05.159 You, Look, it's an interesting conversation, so at the same time, 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.200 if he had gotten rid of Jordy and no votes 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:11.839 had been cast for me, then I would have felt 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.280 pretty safe and we would have been a type four myself, 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.120 Shiney Leaves, and George right, and I would have not 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:22.400 felt indebted, but I would have felt probably you know, 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.160 secure in that even at the lowest of the four 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.120 in terms of that sort of alliance as such, you know, 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.960 moving forward, I definitely would have been voting together with 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:36.440 those three. But I think in probably George's mind at least, 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.239 what he would have been thinking was, you know, look, 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.760 if I do keep Jordie, he is isolated. The girls 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.799 haven't voted with Jordie, so he feels like he can't 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:49.680 trust them. Simon can't trust Jordie. 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.560 You know, have you got a call Stevie with all 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.080 the different lines, you know, like a serial killerboard. 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.080 Like JORDI that tribal he would have been very isolated, 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.880 not knowing who to trust. Same as Simon, same as Stevie. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.360 So it was the perfect play in retrospect to set 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:13.600 George up in a majority alliance of three and then 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:17.080 probably bring Stevie on side. And I think keeping Jordie 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.840 around would probably been a decision made for the future 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.800 sort of long term game that Jordi was probably considered 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:27.200 more of a threat than I was, having been a 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:30.200 returning player that more people from the hero's tribe would 0:07:30.200 --> 0:07:32.200 have seen him play before, so there's probably more of 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:35.640 an argument in the future to get out Jordy instead 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.800 of have people vote for himself if it came down 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:39.160 to it. 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.760 I like the fact that you see you yourself and 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.080 Jordy as spice girls. I'm just going to I'm going 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:47.440 to make up with spice girls. You both would be. 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:49.640 But I was really worried for Jordie because when you 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.600 flip flop and play both sides, you usually don't last 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:54.480 very long in the game. I mean, this is not 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:57.400 a smart game plan for Jordy from my opinion. I 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.720 noticed people online yesterday saying the opposite. They thought it 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:01.920 was great. But you know, I just think Jordie so 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.200 early in this episode, you know, saying that he's going 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.760 to flip flop to me had me smacking my head 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:07.680 and the TV. 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.280 Look you say that, But if it came off, then 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.760 you know it's a completely different conversation. Right, So if 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:21.440 this move had come to fruition, Simon had went home myself, Jeordie, Shawnnie, 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:23.200 Liz and George. 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:25.520 You know, who knows. 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.720 How far that would have gone if we had a 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.880 tribe swap one move later, you know, someone else who'd 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.960 gone home, et cetera. But I don't think it's probably 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.959 worth thinking, you know, was that a right decision. It 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.960 didn't work out, and it ended up probably not being 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:41.040 a good. 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:42.280 Decision for us in the end. 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:46.040 But no one could have known that that twist of 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.160 a challenge mid tribal was going to happen. 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.160 But would it be fair to say that maybe the 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.280 Spice girls wouldn't have followed the vote to get rid 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.640 of Jordie, Like maybe it was better for him to 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:57.960 say you, for George to say you, because the girls 0:08:58.000 --> 0:08:59.720 felt like I think that they played into the plan. 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.079 Yeah, no, look, you're definitely right. 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.040 Look, I think, however, that they had such blind faith 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.880 for George's strategy and his mind and where he saw 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.120 the game was going, that if he had made an 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:17.440 argument to vote Jordie or Stevie, that they probably would 0:09:17.480 --> 0:09:20.120 have gone with it. You know that there's history there 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:24.559 between Shannie and Stevie, right, So I think that if 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.160 he had made an argument for that they would have 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.520 jumped on board, but it just happened that, at least 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:34.440 last night, George saw a better circumstance of voting me, 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:35.320 and I'm. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:35.800 Okay with that. 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:39.000 Well, Stevie played right into the emotions of George's what 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:42.600 I call jungle book snake routine. Do you think he 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.640 will forgive Simon or you know, do you think that 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.800 alliance has now imploded, you know, for good? 0:09:49.120 --> 0:09:51.800 If I'm judging from what I saw last night, I 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:55.120 do think that there's Look, I know Stevie. I spent 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:56.800 a lot of time with him on the beach. He's 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.280 an interesting individual. He's got such an amazing story. But 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.640 I do think that trust, friendship are really really important 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.120 things to him. And I don't know, honestly if that 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:11.440 relationship between himself and Simon can be mended. Right by 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:15.960 George baiting Simon, trying to get him to burn his 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:18.439 idol for no other reason other than to get rid 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:20.839 of it and so that it's no longer in the game, 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:23.720 knowing full well that Stevie was not going to be 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.800 taking enough votes to send him home, and then Simon 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.280 not willing to save his friend and his ally Stevie. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.920 I think that that relationship is probably burned. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.880 Were you sitting there thinking Simon is so wrong? Like, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:38.080 I mean, if you were Simon and you had that 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.120 opportunity to play this idol for Stevie, what would you 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:42.800 have done? I mean, I still think you know, he 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.680 had to look out for himself. I mean, maybe he 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.360 would only save himself some time. Maybe he would be 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.920 only there for two more tribal counsels, but in that time, 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.920 dynamics change, Things change on a dime, So maybe he 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.040 needed to keep it instead of playing for Stevie. 0:10:56.200 --> 0:11:01.560 And I think that comes back to Simon's game last season, right, 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:03.760 I think that really comes back to his sort of 0:11:04.160 --> 0:11:07.000 I would imagine that he's quite frightful on not playing 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:11.600 idols correctly, and that becomes this really nervous sort of 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.160 decision around what to do. 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.000 And it looks as much as you've got to work 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:19.080 with people, it is a selfish game. You have to 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.800 have your best interest in mind one hundred percent of 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:24.640 the time. You only go along with someone else's plan 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.000 if it suits your best interests as well, But you 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:31.600 make them believe like you're doing them a favor by 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:36.440 voting alongside them, right, And I think he just knew 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.520 that he couldn't play it for Stevie after what had 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:45.400 just erupted at Tribal And if that hadn't been out it, 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:50.080 if Jordi hadn't been out it as betraying his friend Simon, 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.160 then maybe he would have played it. But I think 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:56.199 he felt very unsafe at that point in time. It 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.400 was probably the right call to hold on to it. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.079 And even if he had tried to play it, you 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.360 would you know, it would it would have done nothing 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:03.960 for his game. 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.199 Yeah, what about the conflict between Simon and George because 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.920 it seems quite toxic and it really has divided audiences over. 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:12.680 Quite toxic, incredibly toxic. 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:16.360 I know. Do you think this is just good television 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.679 and the boys are playing up to their roles or 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.640 should this kind of behavior be called out? And are 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.240 people right by saying that it has no place in survivor? 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:28.120 You know what? It was quite tit for tat, you know, 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:30.880 and it was there was a boiling point, right, There 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.760 was tension around camp and we saw some glimpses of 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:38.040 that in last night's episode in terms of little comments 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.920 and remarks here and there. They both just got on 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:43.680 each other's nerves, and it's and it's easy to happen 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.760 in such a confined environment where there is no off switch, 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.280 there is no time off. It's one hundred percent of 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.920 the time that you're just surrounded by these individuals and 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.360 that you have to get along when you don't. So 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.400 it definitely escalated a lot, a lot higher than anyone 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.160 would have expected. And I think you're right. I think 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:07.880 one element of that is them wanting maybe a TV moment. 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.640 They both played the game before, they know what is 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.280 shown and what isn't. And you know, it did make 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.440 for some good entertainment. I think it did, you know, 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.080 And it was interesting. Jeordie did step in at the end. 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.520 He said, guys, guys like, stop bickering. We're here to 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.520 have fun. Let's give Fraser's moment, you know, as I 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.280 was sort of walking out, obviously to get my torch 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.440 staff by Jonathan. So you know, I'm happy that they 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.120 made peace for two minutes while I was able to 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.840 do that and actually leave with my head held high 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:39.640 and say proper goodbyes to everyone. 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.320 Yeah, it was nice. I mean, it was nice to them. 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.040 I mean the interesting thing for me is I think 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.400 a lot of these elements are really hard to watch, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.720 but they're my favorite because people in the real world 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.880 do bad things. I think it's completely unrealistic of fans 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.240 to believe that these contestants in high pressure situations are 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.160 going to behave in a PG normal, nice and peace 0:13:58.200 --> 0:13:59.000 loving format. 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.240 You know, so one percent and this is the you know, 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:08.240 this is the height of emotional instability, right You're on 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:12.959 a beach, sleeping there with very little food ration and 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:17.000 physically telling yourself day and day out, a constant nervous 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.880 wreck from you know, the mental game of what this 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:25.200 is and judging each and every person's move and conversation. Right, 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.040 So it really puts you in this state of sort 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:31.080 of I don't even know what to call it, but 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.600 just yeah, yeah, pretty emotionally unstable. 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.680 My gosh. I mean it was such such good television 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.920 from my perspective. I mean, I love when people I 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.400 love good and bad. I love when people are exceptionally 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:47.280 good on TV, and I love when they're terrible because 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.120 it's engaging and it's reflective of society. And I think 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:50.800 you're right. 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:52.560 I think I agree with you for sure. 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:54.800 Well, you were playing a very good game, I thought, 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:56.880 and you know, I've already interviewed people coming out of 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:00.280 the show who had acknowledged you, and one I hasn't 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.440 even said that you were their pick to win, and 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.120 said that your gameplay was so strong. You know, you 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.240 seem to be waiting in the wings for your own 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.360 sort of triumphant storyline in hindsight, now that you know 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.800 that you were used as collateral damage, so easily would 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.240 you play or would you have played things differently? 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.280 I think what I've gained from this experience, and you know, 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.040 you're very knowledgeable about the show, and I think you 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.239 very sort of experience and you have a really great understanding. 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:28.960 So it's awesome to sort of hear your opinion. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.160 But I think the one thing that if I was, 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.600 if I did have a chance to play again. 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:36.920 I would just be more ruthless. You know. 0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.200 Look, I came in with a very very clear strategy 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:44.920 and plan, and that was to lay low under the radar. 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.360 You know, do not step out of turn, do not 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:52.040 say anything outrageous and crazy like you see George saying, 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:57.520 and to get along, make good friendships, make honest friendships, 0:15:57.800 --> 0:15:59.960 and do not feel like you're selling people. 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.040 And I think that's people's downfall. For example, like Michael. 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.240 You know, I think too early on, he just came 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.720 on way too hard, right, and people saw through it, 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.080 and people didn't feel that it was real. You know 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:17.560 that this friendship or alignment was really based on just 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:22.400 his goals. It was completely selfish, right, So that I think, 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:25.600 and I think that's why it did eventuate in his downfall. 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.480 I would like to say that I'd probably play a 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:33.360 little bit more ruthless if a second chance season came around. 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:36.960 But you know, I'm still I'm still happy with everything 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.520 that I did. I made some great friendships. It was 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.800 a crazy experience once in a lifetime and twice if 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:43.320 you're lucky. 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:44.720 So you know what. 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:46.800 Three times if you're lucky, shone he's back for the 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.840 first time. You know, like the story isn't over, And 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:51.760 I mean, I wonder how you feel with you know, 0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.680 the other opinion that these returnees. I mean, you're saying 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:56.560 you'd like to come back, but people are saying that 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.520 people shouldn't come back because of the unfair advantage. Do 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.920 you think that this time around, we're getting major storylines 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.960 for the returnees and that is allowing for the newbies 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:08.360 to be treated like their toys. 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.119 Yeah. Look, I do agree that there is a really 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.919 strong advantage by being a returning player. You just have 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:19.359 this intimate knowledge of what's to come, which probably gives 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:22.680 you this real sense of calm and you know that 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.560 it'll be okay, right, you know, whereas as a new 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:28.680 player coming into the game, as much as I didn't 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:33.120 want to show it, you are constantly nervous at every turn, right, 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:37.920 and you know, and that leads to you know, maybe 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:40.680 not the best decision making, you know, when you're sort 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.840 of in this really heightened state of chaos of the mind. Right, 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.000 So you know, I think there is a really big 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:50.919 advantage of being a returning player. So maybe you know 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.199 the answer there is that if there is a season 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.480 with returning players, that they only play against returning players, 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:57.440 not newbies. 0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.720 Well that's the good point that you're making because of 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:01.440 just like you know, you know, when you go to 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.439 the zoo and you'd see them feed the animals and 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.800 the animals would play with the food. They wouldn't just 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.000 eat it, they'd throw it around. And I feel like 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.040 with the new bees, that's what we're seeing. We're seeing 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.680 these returning players know the game so well that they're 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:14.639 not just eating you, They're playing with their food. 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.440 Look, yes and no, But I mean I don't agree 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.119 because at the same time, whilst returning players know the 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.600 game intimately, they also do feel a lot of pressure 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.320 because they want to live up to or do better 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:32.280 than however they did last time, and to leave the 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:36.520 game unfinished to do or to be voted out earlier, 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.920 would be a massive kill to their confidence and pride 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:42.200 in what they've achieved. 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:42.760 Right. 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:45.520 I think if George was to come second in a 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.160 previous season and then to go out in the first 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.879 two boats, it would almost unravel how he felt about 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:53.080 his first time round. 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.399 I mean, George, I don't necessari you know, George is 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.919 an interesting cat because I don't necessarily know if you 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:01.600 could change his opinion of himself in the game, even 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:02.960 if he was voted out first. 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:05.959 You know, I think you're probably right with that, with 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:07.480 that person in particular. 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.160 You know, the people's love of these programs, you know. Look, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.400 they brought Big Brother back and did a special edition 0:19:13.480 --> 0:19:14.960 of that, and I didn't get asked to come back, 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.320 but it certainly didn't change my opinion of that show. 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.680 I still loved it, and everyone expected me to turn 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.919 against it and burn the thing down where I was like, no, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.680 I love this format so much that I was ready 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.960 to be a viewer again and enjoy it for what 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:30.640 it is. You know, some people's love of these programs, 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.840 I think is bigger than just them returning to come 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:34.360